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Chiefnj2
09-21-2009, 11:57 AM
Was the Gilberry roughing the passer call any different than what happened to Palmer on this play?

Goto first post for how to view.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2009, 12:00 PM
It didn't link to the correct highlight, I'm referring to the Clay Matthews sack in the 2nd quarter that you can find from the play by play:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009092002/2009/REG2/bengals@packers#tab:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-21-2009, 12:01 PM
Might as well make the QB's wear flags.

Mr. Laz
09-21-2009, 12:02 PM
That penalty was complete crap.

Russell didn't slide and wasn't down by contact, he could of stood back up and ran.

The only thing the Chiefs did (sort of) wrong is jumped on him instead of just touching him.

Dam refs must of gotten some kickback from the faiders.

Mr. Flopnuts
09-21-2009, 12:03 PM
I cracked up watching Haley tell the ref that it was a bullshit call. From what I could hear, and read from his lips he was saying it was the 2nd or 3rd bullshit call during the game, and he was tired of their bullshit. I LOL'd pretty good.

Bane
09-21-2009, 12:04 PM
Uh I just watched that for nuttn....No comment.

keg in kc
09-21-2009, 12:04 PM
I thought it was a horrible call. Dude dripped over his own lineman, went down head first, not a slide, he was not down because he hadn't been touched by a defender and no whistle had blown, and the hits were clean (i.e. not helmet shots).

CoMoChief
09-21-2009, 12:04 PM
That was a horse shit call. As a defender you have to anticipate the QB is going to get up and run if he didn't go down by contact. The play wasn't dead, He (Russell) wasn't down by contact. His fatass just ran into his own lineman and fell down. Maybe they should start making sacks illegal.

Bane
09-21-2009, 12:08 PM
That was a horse shit call. As a defender you have to anticipate the QB is going to get up and run. The play wasn't dead, He (Russell) wasn't down by contact. His fatass just ran into his own lineman and fell down. Maybe they should start making sacks illegal.

Prob wont be long and hitting anyone with anything but your ass will be a personal foul!!!:mad:

Hydrae
09-21-2009, 12:08 PM
It didn't link to the correct highlight, I'm referring to the Clay Matthews sack in the 2nd quarter that you can find from the play by play:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009092002/2009/REG2/bengals@packers#tab:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

Looked pretty similar to me.

The one thing I noticed with Gilberry though was his forearm pretty much hit Russell in the head. I figured that was what the call was for, not for jumping on the ball carrier. Of course I would rather have a forearm to the helmet than having someone land on my head like happened to Palmer. ROFL

mikeyis4dcats.
09-21-2009, 12:09 PM
I have not seen the replay, but from the upper deck my impression was we were flagged because TWO players piled on him.

Demonpenz
09-21-2009, 12:09 PM
if the raiders pants where white it would have looked like free willy

Mr. Laz
09-21-2009, 12:13 PM
I have not seen the replay, but from the upper deck my impression was we were flagged because TWO players piled on him.
It doesn't matter how many players piled on him if he wasn't down by contact.

keg in kc
09-21-2009, 12:14 PM
I have not seen the replay, but from the upper deck my impression was we were flagged because TWO players piled on him.My memory is a little fuzzy, but as I recall it wasn't any kind of a pile-on. As I remember it, they hit him simultaneously.

Hydrae
09-21-2009, 12:20 PM
Looked pretty similar to me.

The one thing I noticed with Gilberry though was his forearm pretty much hit Russell in the head. I figured that was what the call was for, not for jumping on the ball carrier. Of course I would rather have a forearm to the helmet than having someone land on my head like happened to Palmer. ROFL

Here is the highlight, watch the replay after the call. Gilberry went through the forehead of Russell with both forearms. Of course the ref in back of the play that threw the flag would not have been able to see that though.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009092004/2009/REG2/raiders@chiefs#tab:watch

mikeyis4dcats.
09-21-2009, 12:21 PM
It doesn't matter how many players piled on him if he wasn't down by contact.

unless the refs thought it was excessive. Just saying that could have been a factor if it happened.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2009, 12:26 PM
Technically, it was the right call. It's a bullshit rule, though.

The worst call of the game was the PI, non PI, then illegal contact call on Flowers and Carr. That was god fucking awful officiating.

It'd really be nice if TV Nets weren't so obsequious to the NFL that they could call them out on their bullshit.

Coogs
09-21-2009, 12:27 PM
I cracked up watching Haley tell the ref that it was a bullshit call. From what I could hear, and read from his lips he was saying it was the 2nd or 3rd bullshit call during the game, and he was tired of their bullshit. I LOL'd pretty good.

The other two... one was where they called Carr for illegal contact on the 3rd and 2 incomplete pass that Flowers defended where they waived off interference on Flowers. Go back and watch that one. It is totally bogus as well and led directly to 3 points that the Faiders should not have had.

The 3rd one was the push in the back block on a running play to the left that was about 15 yards down field. Even the announcers said that one was pretty cheap.

You have to be able to overcome the refs to win in any sport, but I really thought the refs got in the way of the game on this particular day.

CoMoChief
09-21-2009, 12:31 PM
The other two... one was where they called Carr for illegal contact on the 3rd and 2 incomplete pass that Flowers defended where they waived off interference on Flowers. Go back and watch that one. It is totally bogus as well and led directly to 3 points that the Faiders should not have had.

The 3rd one was the push in the back block on a running play to the left that was about 15 yards down field. Even the announcers said that one was pretty cheap.

You have to be able to overcome the refs to win in any sport, but I really thought the refs got in the way of the game on this particular day.
Absolutely they did. Having that said, Cassel not thrown those picks, the Chiefs would have won regardless. Gotta overcome terrible officiating sometimes if you wanna win.

Anyone know some of the ref's home addresses? I wanna go vandalize their yards. :#

morphius
09-21-2009, 12:36 PM
The other two... one was where they called Carr for illegal contact on the 3rd and 2 incomplete pass that Flowers defended where they waived off interference on Flowers. Go back and watch that one. It is totally bogus as well and led directly to 3 points that the Faiders should not have had.

The 3rd one was the push in the back block on a running play to the left that was about 15 yards down field. Even the announcers said that one was pretty cheap.

You have to be able to overcome the refs to win in any sport, but I really thought the refs got in the way of the game on this particular day.
I saw Albert jump on a play where the D player across from him pulled an obvious Neil Smith fake start, Albert of course got the flag and 5 yards back we walked.

Contrarian
09-21-2009, 12:42 PM
Technically, it was the right call. It's a bullshit rule, though.

The worst call of the game was the PI, non PI, then illegal contact call on Flowers and Carr. That was god ****ing awful officiating.

It'd really be nice if TV Nets weren't so obsequious to the NFL that they could call them out on their bullshit.

No it wasn't the right call. It was the wrong call because the QB hadn't been touched.

BigMeatballDave
09-21-2009, 12:44 PM
Regardless if its a bad call or a shitty rule, we let them convert on 3rd and 15. Thats even more shitty than any penalty.

Bob Dole
09-21-2009, 12:47 PM
Maybe they should start making sacks illegal.

After watching last year's Chiefs, Bob Dole was convinced they already were...

Mr. Flopnuts
09-21-2009, 12:51 PM
No it wasn't the right call. It was the wrong call because the QB hadn't been touched.

Actually it was the right call, and it's a bullshit rule as Hamas stated. The rule is you are not allowed to put your full body weight into the QB. Gilberry fell on top of him forcefully. Whether he's been touched or not, you can't put your full body weight into a QB. It's a bullshit, pussy ass rule, but a rule none the less.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2009, 12:51 PM
No it wasn't the right call. It was the wrong call because the QB hadn't been touched.

The flag was for unnecessary roughness. I happen to think they made a piss poor interpretation of that rule.

DaFace
09-21-2009, 12:56 PM
The call was ticky-tack, but not out of line with what refs have been calling lately. The NFL seems completely determined to cut defenders' balls off when it comes to hitting the QB.

cookster50
09-21-2009, 01:02 PM
Prob wont be long and hitting anyone with anything but your ass will be a personal foul!!!:mad:
Personally, that would be foul.

Mr. Laz
09-21-2009, 01:29 PM
Actually it was the right call, and it's a bullshit rule as Hamas stated. The rule is you are not allowed to put your full body weight into the QB. Gilberry fell on top of him forcefully. Whether he's been touched or not, you can't put your full body weight into a QB. It's a bullshit, pussy ass rule, but a rule none the less.
you are not allowed to drive the QB into the ground with your full body weight.

We didn't do that, Russell was on that ground already but wasn't down by contact.

Contrarian
09-21-2009, 01:31 PM
The flag was for unnecessary roughness. I happen to think they made a piss poor interpretation of that rule.

The flag was for a late hit not unnecessary roughness.

Contrarian
09-21-2009, 01:32 PM
Well one in the same but the ref said late hit not anything else.

Mr. Laz
09-21-2009, 01:32 PM
The flag was for a late hit not unnecessary roughness.
how can it be a late hit when the QB wasn't down by contact yet?

Casselvania
09-21-2009, 01:37 PM
I felt like it was a judgement call that they should have let go with the game on the line.

Bwana
09-21-2009, 01:40 PM
As I stated in another thread:

Something tells me that the coaching staff will be conducting a "little review of defense 101" pertaining to a QB that is lying on the ground this week.

As I stated above, it may have been a horseshit call, but the officials are going to toss that flag 99% of the time to protect a QB in that situation.

If QB's start going down, the quality of the team's drop off and people start getting a, "why should I watch attitude" hence, the TV viewing and ratings drop off costing the NFL money.

I have no idea if all that would happen, but I guarantee that's the thought process the commissioner has on the subject, which is why the officials will protect QB's at any cost.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

orange
09-21-2009, 01:49 PM
NFL Rulebook:

Article 8 There shall be no unnecessary roughness. This shall include, but will not be
limited to:
( a) striking an opponent anywhere above the knee with the foot or any part of the leg below the
knee with a whipping motion;
( b) tackling the runner when he is clearly out of bounds;
( c) a member of the receiving team cannot go out of bounds and contact a kicking team player
out of bounds. If this occurs on a kick from scrimmage, post-possession rules would apply
if appropriate (9-1-17);
( d) running or diving into, or throwing the body against or on a ball carrier who falls or slips to
the ground untouched and makes no attempt to advance, before or after the ball is dead;
( e) unnecessarily running, diving into, cutting, or throwing the body against or on a
player who (i) is out of the play or (ii) should not have reasonably anticipated such
contact by an opponent, before or after the ball is dead; or throwing the runner to
the ground after the ball is dead;
( f) contacting a runner out of bounds. Defensive players must make an effort to avoid contact.
Players on defense are responsible for knowing when a runner has crossed the boundary
line, except in doubtful cases where he might step on a boundary line and continue parallel
with it;
( g) using any part of a player’s helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/“hairline” parts)
or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; although such
violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent,
game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those
players who are in virtually defenseless postures (e.g., a player in the act of or just after
throwing a pass, a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass, a runner already in the
grasp of a tackler, a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air, or a player
on the ground at the end of a play). All players in virtually defenseless postures are protected
by the same prohibitions against use of the helmet and facemask that are described
in the roughing-the-passer rules (see Article 11, subsection 3 below of this
Rule 12, Section 2);
( h) a kicker/punter, who is standing still or fading backwards after the ball has been kicked, is
out of the play and must not be unnecessarily contacted by the receiving team through the
end of the play or until he assumes a distinctly defensive position. An opponent may not
unnecessarily initiate helmet-to-helmet contact to the kicker/punter during the kick or during
the return.
( i) any player who hooks his fingers under the helmet of an opponent and forcibly twists his
head.
Penalty: For unnecessary roughness: Loss of 15 yards. The player may be disqualified if the
action is judged by the official(s) to be flagrant.

http://blogmedia.thenewstribune.com/media/2006%20NFL%20RULEBOOK.pdf

It has nothing to do with putting a dress on the QB. It's standard. And has been for years.

Mr. Laz
09-21-2009, 01:53 PM
( d) running or diving into, or throwing the body against or on a ball carrier who falls or slips to
the ground untouched and makes no attempt to advance, before or after the ball is dead;
which is fine if the guy is clearly down and all by himself but Russell was in the middle of a collapsing pocket and had barely hit the ground when our guys scrambled on top of him.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2009, 01:54 PM
In the Green Bay hit, 4 packers fall on Palmer and one of the hits was much later than Gilberry. I guess there is some discretion on the refs.

orange
09-21-2009, 01:55 PM
which is fine if the guy is clearly down and all by himself but Russell was in the middle of a collapsing pocket and had barely hit the ground when our guys scrambled on top of him.

Clearly the refs saw it the other way. And neither the tv announcers nor the radio announcers - who have all seen it many, many times before - disagreed.

Here's a link to the specific play with Mitch and Lenny doing the voiceover: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d812ccdc8

Mitch: "You know what? If he wasn't pushed, it's a bad play by Gilberry."

Mr. Laz
09-21-2009, 02:00 PM
Clearly the refs saw it the other way. And neither the tv announcers nor the radio announcers - who have all seen it many, many times before - disagreed.

Here's a link to the specific play with Mitch and Lenny doing the voiceover: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d812ccdc8
I've seen it a dozen or more times.

Russell wasn't down
The hit wasn't particularly late
Neither chiefs used their helmet or shoulder pads to "spear" into the guy

It was a lame ass call


mitch holthus wouldn't have a career if he hadn't started licking Carl Peterson's anus on a daily basis.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2009, 02:01 PM
Gilberry's forearm to the head didn't help.

Mr. Laz
09-21-2009, 02:07 PM
Gilberry's forearm to the head didn't help.
how could he possibly of hit Russell with his forearm when he was coming from Russell's feet?

You think he could manage to go over Russell's huge belly and still his it peanut head?

i think not ROFL

GoHuge
09-21-2009, 02:39 PM
For those of you surprised by the call you either don't watch much NFL football, are a retard, or a combinationof both. WhyTF is this still being talked about? Didn't decide the game. Murphy caught a 19 yarder directly after so they would have gotten a first down any way. Our defense and Pendergast's playcalling lost the game. That was how we lost the game on that series. We lost it in all kinds of ways on several different series. The score could have been 27-6 Chiefs or just as easily 13-3 Raiders. Both teams made game winning/losing plays all day long.

Hydrae
09-21-2009, 02:41 PM
how could he possibly of hit Russell with his forearm when he was coming from Russell's feet?

You think he could manage to go over Russell's huge belly and still his it peanut head?

i think not ROFL

Did you watch the replay linked earlier in the thread? Not the first go round from a distance but the second time they show the play from a closer angle. He absolutely hits him in the helmet with his forearm, maybe even both of them.

of course the ref that threw the flag was behind Gilberry and would not have been able to see the hit to the head but still, it did happen.

Mr. Laz
09-21-2009, 02:51 PM
WhyTF is this still being talked about? .

because we wanna :harumph:

ForeverChiefs58
09-21-2009, 03:28 PM
JR could have very easily advanced the ball. No one touched him so he could get up and throw it, or just tossed the ball to a raider player while lying there like a turtle on his back. Its not the Chiefs fault he didn't do that because he is so much more Leaf than Manning. A good QB could have still advanced that ball, the Chiefs made sure that didn't happen so we win!

KCrockaholic
09-21-2009, 03:49 PM
I see no difference. The Chiefs-Raiders ref crew was penatly happy. It pisses me off when the ref determine the outcome of a football game. Say we had the GB-CIN ref crew, we probably would not have been penalized. Its like in school when a teacher determines the outcome of your grade, when say you had a different teacher and you put out the same effort in class you get a different grade just because the teacher feels like it. Understand my analogy?

kstater
09-21-2009, 03:58 PM
Only whining pussies complain about officiating more than 10 seconds after a call is made.

KCrockaholic
09-21-2009, 04:04 PM
Only whining pussies complain about officiating more than 10 seconds after a call is made.

Was this just your random thought for the day or was it directed at someone or something?

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 04:05 PM
You all can complain all you want.

But Gilberry made a stupid play and it should have never been a borderline call in the first place.

kstater
09-21-2009, 04:07 PM
Was this just your random thought for the day or was it directed at someone or something?

Do I need to spell out the whining pussies part for you?

tonyetony
09-21-2009, 04:13 PM
That wasn't the only questionable call of the day and it didn't cost us the game. After holding them 3 1/2 quarters playing man on the corners and sending extra rushers we went into prevent. BIG FUCKING MISTAKE.

Mr. Laz
09-21-2009, 04:40 PM
Was this just your random thought for the day or was it directed at someone or something?
Ignore him ... he lives for the passive aggressive move.

BWillie
09-21-2009, 04:53 PM
Does anybody have this replay? I wasn't able to tell wtf happened in the stands.

orange
09-21-2009, 04:54 PM
Does anybody have this replay? I wasn't able to tell wtf happened in the stands.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d812ccdc8

KCrockaholic
09-21-2009, 04:58 PM
Only whining pussies complain about officiating more than 10 seconds after a call is made.

Horseshit (when refering to a pass interference penalty in the Raiders game.)

I guess your one of those "do as I say, not as I do" kind of guys?

kstater
09-21-2009, 05:01 PM
(when refering to a pass interference penalty in the Raiders game.)

I guess your one of those "do as I say, not as I do" kind of guys?


You mean 10 seconds after the play? You may try reading my post prior to you trying to comprehend it.

KCrockaholic
09-21-2009, 05:03 PM
You mean 10 seconds after the play? You may try reading my post prior to you trying to comprehend it.

No I understand, I just dont see why you can make up whatever rules you want. Its not good to be a hypocrite.

CaliforniaChief
09-21-2009, 05:03 PM
Only whining pussies complain about officiating more than 10 seconds after a call is made.

Not only did we lose because of dumb mistakes like penalties, but now we're all talking about a bad call. We're descending into something even worse than LOSING to the Raiders, we are BECOMING like the Raiders.

This game shouldn't have even come down to the 4th quarter, let alone a final drive. We blew it, and that's really all there is to it, IMO.

kstater
09-21-2009, 05:09 PM
No I understand, I just dont see why you can make up whatever rules you want. Its not good to be a hypocrite.

What's hard to understand? We all see things with rose-tinted glasses in the heat of the game. Yet anyone still hung up on officiating after that is retarded. Officials don't cause teams to lose games, and no amount of bitching will change that.

KCrockaholic
09-21-2009, 05:20 PM
What's hard to understand? We all see things with rose-tinted glasses in the heat of the game. Yet anyone still hung up on officiating after that is retarded. Officials don't cause teams to lose games, and no amount of bitching will change that.

I agree. You may have misunderstood my original post but I was never complaining about the officiating. I was just giving my comments on it. It sucks when it doesnt go your way but it just happens. Im over it. I just hadnt commented on the issue yet, so I took the opportunity. No need for hostility.

MahiMike
09-21-2009, 06:44 PM
It was as horrible a call as stupid by the defenders. The fucking know all they need to do is put a hand on him - not jump on him head first. These guys are so damn stoopid I'm surprised they can get on the team bus.

That play and the Leggitt play (not making the interception) was the game breakers.

KCrockaholic
09-21-2009, 06:56 PM
It was as horrible a call as stupid by the defenders. The ****ing know all they need to do is put a hand on him - not jump on him head first. These guys are so damn stoopid I'm surprised they can get on the team bus.

That play and the Leggitt play (not making the interception) was the game breakers.

Flowers and Carr also had interceptions go right threw their hands which would have given us great field position. They all screwed up in some way.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2009, 07:12 PM
For those of you surprised by the call you either don't watch much NFL football, are a retard, or a combinationof both. WhyTF is this still being talked about? Didn't decide the game. Murphy caught a 19 yarder directly after so they would have gotten a first down any way. Our defense and Pendergast's playcalling lost the game. That was how we lost the game on that series. We lost it in all kinds of ways on several different series. The score could have been 27-6 Chiefs or just as easily 13-3 Raiders. Both teams made game winning/losing plays all day long.

If you watch a lot of football you'd see that hits like that aren't called with any consistency. In the first post I give a link to see a worse hit by 4 players on Palmer that wasn't called.

notorious
09-21-2009, 07:21 PM
For those of you surprised by the call you either don't watch much NFL football, are a retard, or a combinationof both. WhyTF is this still being talked about? Didn't decide the game. Murphy caught a 19 yarder directly after so they would have gotten a first down any way. Our defense and Pendergast's playcalling lost the game. That was how we lost the game on that series. We lost it in all kinds of ways on several different series. The score could have been 27-6 Chiefs or just as easily 13-3 Raiders. Both teams made game winning/losing plays all day long.

While I aggree with most of what you said, it would have been 3rd and 21, so 19 yards wouldn't have been enough. :)

BWillie
09-22-2009, 01:01 AM
I don't know about that one. It's not like he speared him with his helmet. I'd say he was just trying to play football. It just doesn't look like a penalty to me in real time.

Rausch
09-22-2009, 02:40 AM
Not only did we lose because of dumb mistakes like penalties, but now we're all talking about a bad call. We're descending into something even worse than LOSING to the Raiders, we are BECOMING like the Raiders.

This game shouldn't have even come down to the 4th quarter, let alone a final drive. We blew it, and that's really all there is to it, IMO.

Exactly.

The only teams that lose to the Raiders are teams that deserve to...:shake:

salame
09-22-2009, 02:44 AM
more like DINGillberry