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MGRS13
09-21-2009, 02:54 PM
First off Cassel did some things that really impressed me yesterday. Well not like top tier QB type impressing but more like I haven't seen an NFL caliber QB play in KC for three years type impressing. Cassel more then anything had pocket presence. That is something I haven't seen here since Green. He moved in the pocket well he sinced the rush and he scrambled ONLY when he had too. Also while he was moving/scrambling he kept his eyes down field, all of this was rather refreshing. However(go chiefs get ready to start typing) he is not a "franchise quarterback." Here is why. At the end of the game he had plenty PLENTY of time to drive his team down field and put them in field goal position. Don't give me the Oline WR bullshit line. A "franchise quarterback" moves the team against all odds. That is what makes them stand out above the other typical QB's in the league. And yes you do, do it the first time you have the chance and the next time and the next time. Cassel is an ok QB and will win some games but he is not the guy that will be back there for 10-12 years and always putting fear into any team we play just because he has a jersey on. He doesn't have "IT" or we would have seen it yesterday.

DeezNutz
09-21-2009, 02:59 PM
I wonder where we could have found a player with that "it" factor? Has this been discussed on here before?

DrRyan
09-21-2009, 03:00 PM
What concerned me most about his last drive with a minute of so remaining was that he seems so concerned with getting in the end zone right now he seemed to forget he need to pick up the first down. No reason to sling it down the field every down. Pick up the first down, matriculate the ball down the field. He needed to hurry yes, but with time outs left, he could have been a little more calm/relaxed/aware, etc.

Dicky McElephant
09-21-2009, 03:00 PM
I wonder where we could have found a player with that "it" factor? Has this been discussed on here before?

*cough*Mark Sanchez*cough*

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 03:01 PM
*cough*Mark Sanchez*cough*

According to the majority of people in this forum, Sanchez will be a bust.

LMAO

DrRyan
09-21-2009, 03:02 PM
I wonder where we could have found a player with that "it" factor? Has this been discussed on here before?

*cough*Mark Sanchez*cough*

It will never stop. Sanchez, thus far, has been asked to not lose the games and let the defense do the heavy lifting. Kind of apples to oranges comparing the Jets and Chiefs at this point...

wazu
09-21-2009, 03:04 PM
First off Cassel did some things that really impressed me yesterday. Well not like top tier QB type impressing but more like I haven't seen an NFL caliber QB play in KC for three years type impressing. Cassel more then anything had pocket presence. That is something I haven't seen here since Green. He moved in the pocket well he sinced the rush and he scrambled ONLY when he had too. Also while he was moving/scrambling he kept his eyes down field, all of this was rather refreshing. However(go chiefs get ready to start typing) he is not a "franchise quarterback." Here is why. At the end of the game he had plenty PLENTY of time to drive his team down field and put them in field goal position. Don't give me the Oline WR bullshit line. A "franchise quarterback" moves the team against all odds. That is what makes them stand out above the other typical QB's in the league. And yes you do, do it the first time you have the chance and the next time and the next time. Cassel is an ok QB and will win some games but he is not the guy that will be back there for 10-12 years and always putting fear into any team we play just because he has a jersey on. He doesn't have "IT" or we would have seen it yesterday.

Until two years ago, everybody was saying the same thing about Eli Manning. I think most would concede he is a franchise QB now.

Mr. Laz
09-21-2009, 03:04 PM
He moved in the pocket well he sinced the rush and he scrambled ONLY when he had too
I disagree completely

One of the biggest problems with Cassell yesterday was that he was jumping at ghosts all day. Even when the pass rush wasn't their yet he was jumping around.

Dicky McElephant
09-21-2009, 03:04 PM
It will never stop. Sanchez, thus far, has been asked to not lose the games and let the defense do the heavy lifting. Kind of apples to oranges comparing the Jets and Chiefs at this point...

:rolleyes:

Dicky McElephant
09-21-2009, 03:05 PM
I've said it before....and I'll fucking say it again.

This team would have been better off with this:

1st round - Mark Sanchez
2nd round - Ron Brace/Clint Sintim/etc....

then this:

1st round - Tyson Jackson
2nd round - Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel

DeezNutz
09-21-2009, 03:07 PM
According to the majority of people in this forum, Sanchez will be a bust.

LMAO

Why aren't you a GM if you're so genious?

The Gang of 14 rides on...

DeezNutz
09-21-2009, 03:07 PM
Until two years ago, everybody was saying the same thing about Eli Manning. I think most would concede he is a franchise QB now.

Not on this forum.

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-21-2009, 03:08 PM
One game coming off an injury and you have reached that conclusion?? Really???

Mr. Laz
09-21-2009, 03:09 PM
I've said it before....and I'll ****ing say it again.

This team would have been better off with this:

1st round - Mark Sanchez
2nd round - Ron Brace/Clint Sintim/etc....

then this:

1st round - Tyson Jackson
2nd round - Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel
I've said it before ... and i'll fucking say it again.

Mark Sanchez can die in a fucking fire fueled by a cut down aids tree.


:shake:

TinyEvel
09-21-2009, 03:09 PM
I agree somewhat. A true stud would have made it to the other end of the field and got us at least in Succop range. I mean, the friggen RAIDERS Ja-tossup Russel did it just minutes prior. And you can't blame a worn defense like the Baltimore game.

How many damn games have there been (last week and last season) where the other team executes a 4th quarter drive against us to take the lead and we have a 2-minute offense to respond and cannot answer. It friggen feels like in almost every game I'm sitting there looking at our offense with the ball in the end of the 4th, and PRAYING "God please let it work this time, let them make it." And...goose-egg.

I know, it's getting better (or, less bad) a bit at a time, but man, Sundays are starting to feel like the movie Groundhog day.

One other thing I noticed was Cassel was back there or scrambling for a LONG time and ended up tossing it away. Were our receivers having trouble getting open?

michaelj_58
09-21-2009, 03:10 PM
i agree with you, but i am going to give him a few more games before a final judgement.i also believe this loss can go on haley's head because of the fail to kick a field goal before haftime and the thrd down and 1,they should have ran it. also the onside kick,that gave the raiders field position, and thats stupid. you wouldnt see bill parcells make that call and haley is suposs to be his prodijay,i agree with witlock on this one, is haley going to put himself on the waiver wire today. damn chiefs ,this game really disapoints me.

cdcox
09-21-2009, 03:10 PM
Agree on the pocket presence. Thought about making my own thread to highlight it. Accuracy was poor on several throws yesterday, including some of the completions he had. Decision making was horrible on the play at the end of the half and the two INTs. He has a lot of improvement to do in that area. I'm willing to call it rust for now. He has to get the basic accuracy and decision making down before we can expect any 4th quarter heroics.

MGRS13
09-21-2009, 03:10 PM
I disagree completely

One of the biggest problems with Cassell yesterday was that he was jumping at ghosts all day. Even when the pass rush wasn't their yet he was jumping around.
Nah he moved in the pocket much better then any QB on this roster. He was also able to get away from some rushers when they had their hands on him yet another thing we haven't seen here in a while. Either way He's not the guy. And by the way I wasn't trying to make this a Cassel/Sanchez thread(there's been like what at least two of those right) I was just pointing out he had his chance to prove he was a real FQB.........he's not.

Just Passin' By
09-21-2009, 03:12 PM
First off Cassel did some things that really impressed me yesterday. Well not like top tier QB type impressing but more like I haven't seen an NFL caliber QB play in KC for three years type impressing. Cassel more then anything had pocket presence. That is something I haven't seen here since Green. He moved in the pocket well he sinced the rush and he scrambled ONLY when he had too. Also while he was moving/scrambling he kept his eyes down field, all of this was rather refreshing. However(go chiefs get ready to start typing) he is not a "franchise quarterback." Here is why. At the end of the game he had plenty PLENTY of time to drive his team down field and put them in field goal position. Don't give me the Oline WR bullshit line. A "franchise quarterback" moves the team against all odds. That is what makes them stand out above the other typical QB's in the league. And yes you do, do it the first time you have the chance and the next time and the next time. Cassel is an ok QB and will win some games but he is not the guy that will be back there for 10-12 years and always putting fear into any team we play just because he has a jersey on. He doesn't have "IT" or we would have seen it yesterday.

1.) "Franchise" quarterbacks fail to put their team in position to score winning points. It happens.

2.) In case you missed it, Cassel did bring his team from behind in the 4th quarter and led the go-ahead drive. The Chiefs took the lead with 2:45 to go.

cdcox
09-21-2009, 03:14 PM
I wanted Sanchez, but am trying not to bring it up in every conversation. But since it is out there on this thread, I will say it. It's damn painful to 1) NEVER have seen the Chiefs draft and develop a franchise QB; 2) have a great prospect just sitting there with your name on it -- it is the move anybody would make; 3) you blow him off for a 1 year wonder whose claim-to-fame is taking a 16-0 team into a 10-6 team; 4) the great prospect you passed on is lighting it up right out of the gate.

Why can't we just once try to develop our own GREAT guy instead of always settling for the guy some other team doesn't want. Green turned out okay, but he only rose to the level of very good. Why not go for great?

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-21-2009, 03:15 PM
Nah he moved in the pocket much better then any QB on this roster. He was also able to get away from some rushers when they had their hands on him yet another thing we haven't seen here in a while. Either way He's not the guy. And by the way I wasn't trying to make this a Cassel/Sanchez thread(there's been like what at least two of those right) I was just pointing out he had his chance to prove he was a real FQB.........he's not.

:shake: Unbelievable

MGRS13
09-21-2009, 03:16 PM
1.) "Franchise" quarterbacks fail to put their team in position to score winning points. It happens.

2.) In case you missed it, Cassel did bring his team from behind in the 4th quarter and led the go-ahead drive. The Chiefs took the lead with 2:45 to go.
He had the ball with plenty of time to drive the team 60 yards to put them in position to try a field goal. He had his chance and proved he's not that guy Franchise QB's do that. Thats why they get the fancy tag of Franchise QB's.

Fruit Ninja
09-21-2009, 03:17 PM
I wanted Sanchez, but am trying not to bring it up in every conversation. But since it is out there on this thread, I will say it. It's damn painful to 1) NEVER have seen the Chiefs draft and develop a franchise QB; 2) have a great prospect just sitting there with your name on it -- it is the move anybody would make; 3) you blow him off for a 1 year wonder whose claim-to-fame is taking a 16-0 team into a 10-6 team; 4) the great prospect you passed on is lighting it up right out of the gate.

Why can't we just once try to develop our own GREAT guy instead of always settling for the guy some other team doesn't want. Green turned out okay, but he only rose to the level of very good. Why not go for great?

They were 11-5 and in the games that he started they were 11-4. thats not bad. Them Patriots this year should be 0-2 but they are at 1-1 and have NOT scored an offensive touchdown with the Jesus Brady back there.

TRR
09-21-2009, 03:17 PM
First off Cassel did some things that really impressed me yesterday. Well not like top tier QB type impressing but more like I haven't seen an NFL caliber QB play in KC for three years type impressing. Cassel more then anything had pocket presence. That is something I haven't seen here since Green. He moved in the pocket well he sinced the rush and he scrambled ONLY when he had too. Also while he was moving/scrambling he kept his eyes down field, all of this was rather refreshing. However(go chiefs get ready to start typing) he is not a "franchise quarterback." Here is why. At the end of the game he had plenty PLENTY of time to drive his team down field and put them in field goal position. Don't give me the Oline WR bullshit line. A "franchise quarterback" moves the team against all odds. That is what makes them stand out above the other typical QB's in the league. And yes you do, do it the first time you have the chance and the next time and the next time. Cassel is an ok QB and will win some games but he is not the guy that will be back there for 10-12 years and always putting fear into any team we play just because he has a jersey on. He doesn't have "IT" or we would have seen it yesterday.

It's posts like these that make me wish I never would have discovered Chiefsplanet.

Brock
09-21-2009, 03:19 PM
He had the ball with plenty of time to drive the team 60 yards to put them in position to try a field goal. He had his chance and proved he's not that guy Franchise QB's do that. Thats why they get the fancy tag of Franchise QB's.

This team is bad. You need more than just a franchise QB to drive the field like that, not that Cassel is or isn't.

MGRS13
09-21-2009, 03:19 PM
They were 11-5 and in the games that he started they were 11-4. thats not bad. Them Patriots this year should be 0-2 but they are at 1-1 and have NOT scored an offensive touchdown with the Jesus Brady back there.
They scored two in the last 4 mins of their season opener.

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
09-21-2009, 03:19 PM
It's posts like these that make me wish I never would have discovered Chiefsplanet.

I'm starting to agree with you.

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 03:21 PM
I wonder where we could have found a player with that "it" factor? Has this been discussed on here before?

LMAO There it was.

According to the majority of people in this forum, Sanchez will be a bust.

LMAO

No one ever said this room was stacked top to bottom with Einstein.

It will never stop. Sanchez, thus far, has been asked to not lose the games and let the defense do the heavy lifting. Kind of apples to oranges comparing the Jets and Chiefs at this point...

I don't know what's worse; people who get the panty-ruffle at the mere suggestion or mention of his name, or posts like this that clearly demonstrate that most people don't have a fucking clue about what this kid is doing within the system of the New York Jets.

dirk digler
09-21-2009, 03:22 PM
Not on this forum.

Probably true. I said after last night's game he is going to a Top 5 QB if he isn't already.

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 03:22 PM
I wanted Sanchez, but am trying not to bring it up in every conversation. But since it is out there on this thread, I will say it. It's damn painful to 1) NEVER have seen the Chiefs draft and develop a franchise QB; 2) have a great prospect just sitting there with your name on it -- it is the move anybody would make; 3) you blow him off for a 1 year wonder whose claim-to-fame is taking a 16-0 team into a 10-6 team; 4) the great prospect you passed on is lighting it up right out of the gate.

Why can't we just once try to develop our own GREAT guy instead of always settling for the guy some other team doesn't want. Green turned out okay, but he only rose to the level of very good. Why not go for great?

That's just media ballwashing and trickery; pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

cdcox
09-21-2009, 03:24 PM
Nah he moved in the pocket much better then any QB on this roster. He was also able to get away from some rushers when they had their hands on him yet another thing we haven't seen here in a while. Either way He's not the guy. And by the way I wasn't trying to make this a Cassel/Sanchez thread(there's been like what at least two of those right) I was just pointing out he had his chance to prove he was a real FQB.........he's not.

I don't think you can really judge by one game. Roethlisberger and Rivers failed to get it done yesterday, too.

C-Mac
09-21-2009, 03:24 PM
I wanted Sanchez, but am trying not to bring it up in every conversation. But since it is out there on this thread, I will say it. It's damn painful to 1) NEVER have seen the Chiefs draft and develop a franchise QB; 2) have a great prospect just sitting there with your name on it -- it is the move anybody would make; 3) you blow him off for a 1 year wonder whose claim-to-fame is taking a 16-0 team into a 10-6 team; 4) the great prospect you passed on is lighting it up right out of the gate.

Why can't we just once try to develop our own GREAT guy instead of always settling for the guy some other team doesn't want. Green turned out okay, but he only rose to the level of very good. Why not go for great?

I dunno....I'm sure Packers fans found contentment even without drafting Farve and I think I can with Cassel if he develops. Neither of these guys were starters or the face of their previous teams and were\are young.

Just Passin' By
09-21-2009, 03:26 PM
He had the ball with plenty of time to drive the team 60 yards to put them in position to try a field goal. He had his chance and proved he's not that guy Franchise QB's do that. Thats why they get the fancy tag of Franchise QB's.

Brady had his chance to score against the Jets. Is he not a franchise QB because of it? Throughout his career, Manning had failed on 4th quarter comebacks. Is he not a franchise QB because of those occasions?

Just Passin' By
09-21-2009, 03:27 PM
I don't think you can really judge by one game. Roethlisberger and Rivers failed to get it done yesterday, too.

Yep, they suck too. It's amazing that all 32 teams are headed by QBs that suck.

MGRS13
09-21-2009, 03:27 PM
I don't think you can really judge by one game. Roethlisberger and Rivers failed to get it done yesterday, too.

Roethlisberger got his team in position his kicker missed. Norv took the ball out of Rivers hands.

OnTheWarpath58
09-21-2009, 03:30 PM
I don't think you can really judge by one game. Roethlisberger and Rivers failed to get it done yesterday, too.

I agree with the "one game" comment. However...

Roethlisberger never got the chance, as the Steelers return team fumbled the kick away - and even had they kept it, he would have had less than 15 seconds to drive 40 yards.

And in all fairness, Rivers did his part, driving over 50 yards, only to have his OC make a stupid play call when the game was on the line.

Cassel, OTOH, had 1:07 to work with and all 3 time outs, only to gain 6 yards and go 4-and-out.

Fruit Ninja
09-21-2009, 03:31 PM
They scored two in the last 4 mins of their season opener.

i musta heard wrong but even so, they ddnt get one against the JETSSSS. My point still stands about them. They should have lost both games.

cdcox
09-21-2009, 03:33 PM
I dunno....I'm sure Packers fans found contentment even without drafting Farve and I think I can with Cassel if he develops. Neither of these guys were starters or the face of their previous teams and were\are young.

Favre was 23 to Cassel's 27. Favre was a big strapping dude with a cannon for an arm. Came from a small college program. All talent no polish. Cassel is a guy with a decent but not great arm that has been in premier organizations for the last 8 or 9 years and has been coached up to get to where he is. I don't think the comparisons have a lot in common to make me think Cassel has a chance to be the next Favre.

MGRS13
09-21-2009, 03:33 PM
i musta heard wrong but even so, they ddnt get one against the JETSSSS. My point still stands about them. They should have lost both games.

You are probably right but you know what won the first game against the bills. One bad play on special teams by the bills and two amazing drives by the pats FRANCHISE QB!

cdcox
09-21-2009, 03:38 PM
I agree with the "one game" comment. However...

Roethlisberger never got the chance, as the Steelers return team fumbled the kick away - and even had they kept it, he would have had less than 15 seconds to drive 40 yards.

And in all fairness, Rivers did his part, driving over 50 yards, only to have his OC make a stupid play call when the game was on the line.

Cassel, OTOH, had 1:07 to work with and all 3 time outs, only to gain 6 yards and go 4-and-out.

For Roethlisberger I was referring to the drive before with the missed FG. Yeah he drove them, but didn't get the TD. We already know that Chicago could have matched that FG. Yeah Ben put it in Holmes hands and Holmes dropped it, but every QB's success depends on their surrounding talent. Did the Chiefs receivers get open? Just too little info to come close to judging based on one game. Let's put a chalk mark in the Cassel's fail column and see how it pans out over the next couple of years. We should know which direction it is going to go by then.

PlasticMan
09-21-2009, 03:38 PM
hmm i guess with this type of thinking Tom Brady is no longer a franchise QB since he failed to lead the Pats to a win yesterday.....you cant win them all

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 03:40 PM
hmm i guess with this type of thinking Tom Brady is no longer a franchise QB since he failed to lead the Pats to a win yesterday.....you cant win them all

Not at all, you just can't beat Rex the Baptist and Jesus Sanchez. PRAISE HIM!

KCChiefsFan88
09-21-2009, 03:45 PM
I thought Cassel played pretty well considering he is playing with shit WRs and a crappy offensive line (remember how Trent Green did his first year in KC under similar conditions? It wasn't pretty).

I flew up for the game and noticed during pregame warm-ups that Cassel was not stepping completely into his passes and many of his passes were going high... I thought this happened on his second INT. I'm assuming once his knee is 100% this will improve.

Based on what I saw yesterday, I'm fully confident that better things are to come with Cassel as he becomes more familiar with Haley's offense, his knee becomes 100% and the WRs/offensive line around him are upgraded (granted this won't happen this season).

Bane
09-21-2009, 03:48 PM
Not at all, you just can't beat Rex the Baptist and Jesus Sanchez. PRAISE HIM!

SWEET!!!:clap:

Dicky McElephant
09-21-2009, 03:49 PM
Not at all, you just can't beat Rex the Baptist and Jesus Sanchez. PRAISE HIM!

The real question is.....what would happen if Aaron "Jesus" Curry tried to tackle Mark "Christ" Sanchez?

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 03:52 PM
The real question is.....what would happen if Aaron "Jesus" Curry tried to tackle Mark "Christ" Sanchez?

LMAO
GALACTIC

OnTheWarpath58
09-21-2009, 03:53 PM
The real question is.....what would happen if Aaron "Jesus" Curry tried to tackle Mark "Christ" Sanchez?

Starting at :20.

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/U_XbMRRtEJ8&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/U_XbMRRtEJ8&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 03:53 PM
IMPLOSION!

Bane
09-21-2009, 03:53 PM
LMAO
GALACTIC

HELL WOULD FREEZE OVER????ROFL

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 03:54 PM
Starting at :20.

<object height="340" width="560">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/U_XbMRRtEJ8&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="340" width="560"></object>

ROFL

Great minds and all...

Micjones
09-21-2009, 03:56 PM
After 2 games Mark Sanchez is God and Cassel was a mistake.

Signed,

The People who used to call our last good QB "TrInt" after his first season with the Chiefs.

DrRyan
09-21-2009, 03:57 PM
I don't know what's worse; people who get the panty-ruffle at the mere suggestion or mention of his name, or posts like this that clearly demonstrate that most people don't have a ****ing clue about what this kid is doing within the system of the New York Jets.

Raised on Ritalin, try and keep up. He is asked to manage the game for the Jets. I get it dude. He is going to be asked to throw the ball 18-25 times in most games. That defense and running game behind their very good O line is their bread and butter.

I was a supporter of the Cassel trade. I also would have been fine with them taking Sanchez with their pick, even after the Cassel trade. There is a premium on the QB position in the NFL. Someone would have paid the ransom for him.

jaa1025
09-21-2009, 04:01 PM
So did Trent Green have "it" then? There we're many games I saw with the chance to go win the game and he'd fail. Guess he wasn't a franchise QB either. Let's go further....what about Elway? When he was younger and in the league he wasn't a great QB and missed opportunities like that too. You don't scrap a QB as your franchise QB after one start.

Yes, he did make mistakes. He threw 2 int's that shouldn't have been thrown. But you know what? It was the first game of his career here. He's been off for the last 3 weeks and was expected to be rusty. They have a 3 week old offensive system. He's throwing to a brand new WR thats been on the team about 5 days.

He showed more to me of being a franchise QB than anyone has since Gannon. Frankly, I'm giddy over what he showed yesterday and think we FINALLY have a young franchise QB. FINALLY!

And Mark Sanchez wasn't what this team needed. We already had Cassell for chump change. Mark has had average numbers on a REALLY good, well rounded team. You think he'd do better on this team...your crazy if so.

Bane
09-21-2009, 04:01 PM
After 2 games Mark Sanchez is God and Cassel was a mistake.

Signed,

The People who used to call our last good QB "TrInt" after his first season with the Chiefs.

Guilty as charged,I called him Trint,and I was very sorry.Trent turned into a very good QB in my mind,and I hated to see him go.Cassel yeah ok maybe Im a lil too hard on him so far,but thats mainly cause everyone has hyped him up as the next great thing.I'll give him this year as a learning year just like Trent,but I will still always believe when you do a total rebuild,you draft your QB not trade for him.

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 04:03 PM
Raised on Ritalin, try and keep up. He is asked to manage the game for the Jets. I get it dude. He is going to be asked to throw the ball 18-25 times in most games. That defense and running game behind their very good O line is their bread and butter.

I was a supporter of the Cassel trade. I also would have been fine with them taking Sanchez with their pick, even after the Cassel trade. There is a premium on the QB position in the NFL. Someone would have paid the ransom for him.

No, you obviously DON'T have a clue. The game plan for him changes from week to week. Against the Pats, you exploit their weakened LB corps and run Washington down their throats.
Against Houston, you play air-ball. And this isn't about who took who, this about your generalizations and obvious lack of knowledge on the subject.

Now, you or someone else please follow this post with "I only care about/pay attention to the Chiefs", so we can wrap this FAIL up and go have cocktails!:D
.

Bane
09-21-2009, 04:05 PM
No, you obviously DON'T have a clue. The game plan for him changes from week to week. Against the Pats, you exploit their weakened LB corps and run Washington down their throats.
Against Houston, you play air-ball. And this isn't about who took who, this about your generalizations and obvious lack of knowledge on the subject.

Now, you or someone else please follow this post with "I only care about/pay attention to the Chiefs", so we can wrap this FAIL up and go have cocktails!:D
.

Funny I don't see Sanchez playing don't loose the game ball either....:clap:

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 04:06 PM
And Mark Sanchez wasn't what this team needed.

And you came to this well-rounded, Doctoral Thesis how?

Dicky McElephant
09-21-2009, 04:06 PM
After 2 games Mark Sanchez is God and Cassel was a mistake.

Signed,

The People who used to call our last good QB "TrInt" after his first season with the Chiefs.

Oh fuck off. I haven't declared Mark Sanchez to be God and I haven't said that Cassel was horrible. All I stated was that this team would be better off with Sanchez and our 2nd round pick.....instead of T. Jackson, Cassel and Vrabel.

Deberg_1990
09-21-2009, 04:07 PM
All I stated was that this team would be better off with Sanchez and our 2nd round pick.....instead of T. Jackson, Cassel and Vrabel.

Please explain how can you delare that after 2 games?

Bane
09-21-2009, 04:07 PM
Oh **** off. I haven't declared Mark Sanchez to be God and I haven't said that Cassel was horrible. All I stated was that this team would be better off with Sanchez and our 2nd round pick.....instead of T. Jackson, Cassel and Vrabel.

But you didn't kneel down and sacrifice your kids on the alter of Cassel! How dare you sinner!!!!:evil:

LaChapelle
09-21-2009, 04:08 PM
This mystical franchise label amuses me.

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 04:09 PM
Funny I don't see Sanchez playing don't loose the game ball either....:clap:

I'll say this:

He's right where he needs to be. Both he and Ryan are two guys who are NOT afraid take the risks and go down in flames if they lose.

The Jets have a much better roster than we do right now, and that obviously helps a rookie QB. But this bullshit about "game management" is a fucking crock.

Dicky McElephant
09-21-2009, 04:09 PM
Please explain how can you delare that after 2 games?

A NT/OLB in a 3-4 is more important to this defense than a DE.

Sanchez is younger and has more upside....for basically the same contract.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 04:10 PM
Probably true. I said after last night's game he is going to a Top 5 QB if he isn't already.

I thought you repeatedly stated that Sanchez would be a bust.

Am I confusing you with someone else?

Deberg_1990
09-21-2009, 04:11 PM
A NT/OLB in a 3-4 is more important to this defense than a DE.

Sanchez is younger and has more upside....for basically the same contract.

I liked sanchez alot.....but nobody has any idea how hes going to turn out long term. No idea.

DrRyan
09-21-2009, 04:13 PM
No, you obviously DON'T have a clue. The game plan for him changes from week to week. Against the Pats, you exploit their weakened LB corps and run Washington down their throats.
Against Houston, you play air-ball. And this isn't about who took who, this about your generalizations and obvious lack of knowledge on the subject.

Now, you or someone else please follow this post with "I only care about/pay attention to the Chiefs", so we can wrap this FAIL up and go have cocktails!:D
.

So, I am really trying to follow your circular logic here. Are the Jets the only team that changes the game plan for their QB week to week? How about this dude...

over/under on passes thrown by Sanchez per game at the end of the season:23.5

I say the under.

You sir, really do not get it if you are not able to see that the strength of the Jets right now, and likely all season is their defense and their running game. M'kay?

OnTheWarpath58
09-21-2009, 04:13 PM
I liked sanchez alot.....but nobody has any idea how hes going to turn out long term. No idea.

Same could be said for Cassel, yet people are falling all over themselves making excuses as to why he played a sub-par game yesterday.

dirk digler
09-21-2009, 04:14 PM
I thought you repeatedly stated that Sanchez would be a bust.

Am I confusing you with someone else?

I was replying to DeeNutz about Eli. IMO if he isn't already he is going to be a Top 5 QB.

My view on Sanchez was he was too inexperienced to be drafted that high.

Deberg_1990
09-21-2009, 04:14 PM
Same could be said for Cassel, yet people are falling all over themselves making excuses as to why he played a sub-par game yesterday.

Cassel was the safer bet. He had already proven he could play in this league last year.


Personally i would have drafted the young QB, but im not going to judge yet...its way to early.

Bane
09-21-2009, 04:15 PM
Same could be said for Cassel, yet people are falling all over themselves making excuses as to why he played a sub-par game yesterday.

No he was just fine it was EVERYONE else!!!ROFLROFL

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 04:16 PM
I liked sanchez alot.....but nobody has any idea how hes going to turn out long term. No idea.

Then quite frankly, you don't know anything about football.

The guy was the #1 ranked high school recruit in the country.

He was a 4 year player at USC, starting 16 games. His completion percentage in his final game against Penn State was more than 80%.

He comes from a great family in very upscale Mission Veijo. The guy lives and breathes football.

If you can't tell from his first two NFL starts that this guy is going to superstar for a long time in this league (barring injury), you should just stop commenting now.

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 04:16 PM
So, I am really trying to follow your circular logic here. Are the Jets the only team that changes the game plan for their QB week to week? How about this dude...

over/under on passes thrown by Sanchez per game at the end of the season:23.5

I say the under.

You sir, really do not get it if you are not able to see that the strength of the Jets right now, and likely all season is their defense and their running game. M'kay?

You can say whatever the hell you please, Corky. The fact is, as the season marches on, he'll be throwing the ball more and more as the confidence and trust grows between himself, Rex, Cotchery, and the other receiver who's name escapes me at the moment.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 04:16 PM
I was replying to DeeNutz about Eli. IMO if he isn't already he is going to be a Top 5 QB.

My view on Sanchez was he was too inexperienced to be drafted that high.

That's what I remembered. You repeatedly stated he'd bust.

Well my friend, you are very wrong.

cdcox
09-21-2009, 04:17 PM
After 2 games Mark Sanchez is God and Cassel was a mistake.

Signed,

The People who used to call our last good QB "TrInt" after his first season with the Chiefs.

Well, I'm saying that 1) we need more time to judge Cassel and 2) everything that we have seen from Sanchez so far vindicates those of us who wanted to draft him. It is unusual for a rookie to start strong and regress. Yes, it happens (see Ryan Leaf). But Sanchez is not the head case that Ryan Leaf was.

Never called Trent, Trint. Nor was I overly critical of him all through 2002. I stuck with Grbac until he stabbed us to go with the Ravens. No snap judgments from me.

Deberg_1990
09-21-2009, 04:17 PM
Then quite frankly, you don't know anything about football.

The guy was the #1 ranked high school recruit in the country.

He was a 4 year player at USC, starting 16 games. His completion percentage in his final game against Penn State was more than 80%.

He comes from a great family in very upscale Mission Veijo. The guy lives and breathes football.

If you can't tell from his first two NFL starts that this guy is going to superstar for a long time in this league (barring injury), you should just stop commenting now.


Yes, yes yes....Your exactly right. Why arnt you a GM??

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 04:18 PM
Then quite frankly, you don't know anything about football.

The guy was the #1 ranked high school recruit in the country.

He was a 4 year player at USC, starting 16 games. His completion percentage in his final game against Penn State was more than 80%.

He comes from a great family in very upscale Mission Veijo. The guy lives and breathes football.

If you can't tell from his first two NFL starts that this guy is going to superstar for a long time in this league (barring injury), you should just stop commenting now.

And at the very least, idea or not, I'd say we have a pretty damned good clue as to how he will pan out thus far.

Dicky McElephant
09-21-2009, 04:19 PM
Yes, yes yes....Your exactly right. Why arnt you a GM??

God I love this comment. Anyone who has any knowledge of football....and talks about....gets questioned on why he isn't a GM.

Fuck off you douche.

Go back to hoping for 8-8 and a pro-bowl FB and TE.

dirk digler
09-21-2009, 04:20 PM
That's what I remembered. You repeatedly stated he'd bust.

Well my friend, you are very wrong.

I don't think I ever said he would be a bust. I said I had concerns about his inexperience that is it.

I also wasn't high on the Cassel trade either because I thought he was a 1 year wonder.

But if I am wrong I am wrong. It is not the first time and it won't be the last time either.

Deberg_1990
09-21-2009, 04:20 PM
Go back to hoping for 8-8 and a pro-bowl FB and TE.

Ummm..i believe i stated i would have drafted Sanchez. But im not Pioli.

Bane
09-21-2009, 04:20 PM
So, I am really trying to follow your circular logic here. Are the Jets the only team that changes the game plan for their QB week to week? How about this dude...

over/under on passes thrown by Sanchez per game at the end of the season:23.5

I say the under.

You sir, really do not get it if you are not able to see that the strength of the Jets right now, and likely all season is their defense and their running game. M'kay?

Id take the over on that based on my opinion that as the season goes along he will get better and RR will open up the play book some more.

OnTheWarpath58
09-21-2009, 04:22 PM
Well, I'm saying that 1) we need more time to judge Cassel and 2) everything that we have seen from Sanchez so far vindicates those of us who wanted to draft him. It is unusual for a rookie to start strong and regress. Yes, it happens (see Ryan Leaf). But Sanchez is not the head case that Ryan Leaf was.

Never called Trent, Trint. Nor was I overly critical of him all through 2002. I stuck with Grbac until he stabbed us to go with the Ravens. No snap judgments from me.

Funny thing is, without doing the research, I'm pretty damn sure that the majority of the people that he's implicitly speaking to with that comment weren't even on the board when Trent was called TrInt.

Most arrived here several years later.

And considering mic himself didn't arrive until 2007, I'm not sure how he can even make that claim.

C-Mac
09-21-2009, 04:22 PM
Favre was 23 to Cassel's 27. Favre was a big strapping dude with a cannon for an arm. Came from a small college program. All talent no polish. Cassel is a guy with a decent but not great arm that has been in premier organizations for the last 8 or 9 years and has been coached up to get to where he is. I don't think the comparisons have a lot in common to make me think Cassel has a chance to be the next Favre.

The next Farve?.....was not even remotely try to say that.
I was just saying that I can more readily accept an "un-drafted by KC QB" that might have the potential to become a franchise QB, if he's young enough and has never been the face of another team. It wouldn't give me that empty feeling you were expressing about KC drafting there own. Len Dawson was in that same "undrafted by original team before the became franchise QB's" boat as Farve.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 04:24 PM
Yes, yes yes....Your exactly right. Why arnt you a GM??

Because I'm much more successful at berating you from time to time.

:D

DrRyan
09-21-2009, 04:24 PM
You can say whatever the hell you please, Corky. The fact is, as the season marches on, he'll be throwing the ball more and more as the confidence and trust grows between himself, Rex, Cotchery, and the other receiver who's name escapes me at the moment.

Very good sir. As usual, when you have nothing to add(most of you posts) you start with name calling. I assume you are taking the over on 23.5 passes per game on the year then O wise one?

Chansi Stuckey is the other WR. You would think someone who knows the Jets game plans week to week would at least know that, no?

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 04:25 PM
I don't think I ever said he would be a bust. I said I had concerns about his inexperience that is it.

I also wasn't high on the Cassel trade either because I thought he was a 1 year wonder.

But if I am wrong I am wrong. It is not the first time and it won't be the last time either.

That's cool. I was just trying to verify before throwing that in your face.

:D

Deberg_1990
09-21-2009, 04:25 PM
Because I'm much more successful at berating you from time to time.

:D

This is true....

Dane,

Im just trying to get what goes through alot of guys heads on this board....?

There are lots of different ways to build a winning program. Just because you disagree with Pioli doesnt mean its the wrong way.

I dont think hes been 100% nails since hes been in KC, but i think eventually he will get the franchise turned around.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 04:26 PM
Ummm..i believe i stated i would have drafted Sanchez. But im not Pioli.

Umm, you're not?

Dammit Jim!

Micjones
09-21-2009, 04:26 PM
Guilty as charged,I called him Trint,and I was very sorry.Trent turned into a very good QB in my mind,and I hated to see him go.Cassel yeah ok maybe Im a lil too hard on him so far,but thats mainly cause everyone has hyped him up as the next great thing.I'll give him this year as a learning year just like Trent,but I will still always believe when you do a total rebuild,you draft your QB not trade for him.

Just keep in mind that after last week's game we were still working out WR's.
The talent level here offensively is STILL suspect. The current configuration of the Offensive Line isn't working. We need to try O'Callaghan at RT now.

This thing is a work in progress and I'm willing to be patient.
Two picks and a couple bad decisions aren't enough, yet, for me to write him off.

He's did some good things as well yesterday. He put that TD pass in the perfect spot. I think if he learns to gamble a little less and gets time to throw he can be efficient.

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 04:26 PM
Very good sir. As usual, when you have nothing to add(most of you posts) you start with name calling. I assume you are taking the over on 23.5 passes per game on the year then O wise one?

Chansi Stuckey is the other WR. You would think someone who knows the Jets game plans week to week would at least know that, no?

I accept your apology.

Fruit Ninja
09-21-2009, 04:26 PM
You are probably right but you know what won the first game against the bills. One bad play on special teams by the bills and two amazing drives by the pats FRANCHISE QB!

1 amazing drive, the other one was right there at the 20. They had 20 yards. While yes, he had to get them in, its not like he drove them 80 yards on that last drive though.

Cassel had to go 70plus 2 times, he did it once. That pass to Bowe was a think of beauty, you could NOT ask for a more perfect pass. Also, first time ever starting for the KC chiefs in a regular season game with a new team and 3 week old playbook. Not to shabby.

Micjones
09-21-2009, 04:28 PM
Oh fuck off. I haven't declared Mark Sanchez to be God and I haven't said that Cassel was horrible. All I stated was that this team would be better off with Sanchez and our 2nd round pick.....instead of T. Jackson, Cassel and Vrabel.

And I'm certain you're the Swami of NFL Prognostications.
So we'll all rest easy now that you have spoken.

Dicky McElephant
09-21-2009, 04:28 PM
And I'm certain you're the Swami of NFL Prognostications.
So we'll all rest easy now that you have spoken.

Just like I know that you're the almighty God of rap. STFU

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 04:28 PM
This is true....

Dane,

Im just trying to get what goes through alot of guys heads on this board....?

There are lots of different ways to build a winning program. Just because you disagree with Pioli doesnt mean its the wrong way.

I dont think hes been 100% nails since hes been in KC, but i think eventually he will get the franchise turned around.

I know Man and I'm just teasing you.

There's no way that I'm going to predict that Pioli will get this franchise turned around or not after only being on the job for nine months. There are decades of crap associated with this franchise and it would be foolish for anyone to question this now.

But with that being said, I certainly haven't agreed with many of the decision made and so far, those that I haven't agreed with haven't come back to bite me in the ass.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 04:29 PM
And I'm certain you're the Swami of NFL Prognostications.
So we'll all rest easy now that you have spoken.

Damion McIntosh

Micjones
09-21-2009, 04:30 PM
Funny thing is, without doing the research, I'm pretty damn sure that the majority of the people that he's implicitly speaking to with that comment weren't even on the board when Trent was called TrInt.

Most arrived here several years later.

And considering mic himself didn't arrive until 2007, I'm not sure how he can even make that claim.

Because God knows there aren't knee-jerk Chiefs fan types outside of ChiefsPlanet.
Nah, this brand of snap judgment is unique to THIS board.

ROFL

Deberg_1990
09-21-2009, 04:30 PM
There are decades of crap associated with this franchise and it would be foolish for anyone to question this now.



This i think we can all agree on. :)

DrRyan
09-21-2009, 04:31 PM
I accept your apology.

Again, I assume your waffling means you are taking the over. We can revisit this at a later date.

Micjones
09-21-2009, 04:31 PM
Just like I know that you're the almighty God of rap. STFU

Not sure where I've ever pretended to be anything like a God of Rap, but I'm guessing I'm much better at that than you are at predicting the future of 2 NFL QB's after just 2 games.

Micjones
09-21-2009, 04:31 PM
Damion McIntosh

Care to elaborate?

Bane
09-21-2009, 04:32 PM
Just keep in mind that after last week's game we were still working out WR's.
The talent level here offensively is STILL suspect. The current configuration of the Offensive Line isn't working. We need to try O'Callaghan at RT now.

This thing is a work in progress and I'm willing to be patient.
Two picks and a couple bad decisions aren't enough, yet, for me to write him off.

He's did some good things as well yesterday. He put that TD pass in the perfect spot. I think if he learns to gamble a little less and gets time to throw he can be efficient.

Agreed,well put young man.:clap:

nychief
09-21-2009, 04:33 PM
wow.... you can tell all that from one start. you have powers.

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 04:33 PM
Again, I assume your waffling means you are taking the over. We can revisit this at a later date.

Fine. Now shouldn't you get back to charging patients outrageous prices for sub-par American health care?

Devil finds work for idle hands; chop-chop!:D

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 04:33 PM
Care to elaborate?

Are you kidding?

You were defending him during the preseason as if he was your retarded brother that was being picked on in school.

Tiger's Fan
09-21-2009, 04:34 PM
*cough*Mark Sanchez*cough*

Does this mean that in the future, when someone else brings up dirty sanchez in another thread, you and yours won't be bitching about it again and again, over and over?

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 04:34 PM
Not sure where I've ever pretended to be anything like a God of Rap, but I'm guessing I'm much better at that than you are at predicting the future of 2 NFL QB's after just 2 games.

How so?

What's your prediction and what makes it better than his?

Bane
09-21-2009, 04:35 PM
Are you kidding?

You were defending him during the preseason as if he was your retarded brother that was being picked on in school.

Holy hell!!!ROFL

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 04:36 PM
Does this mean that in the future, when someone else brings up dirty sanchez in another thread, you and yours won't be bitching about it again and again, over and over?

Quite honestly, there is no way that Tyson Jackson and Mark Sanchez aren't tied to the hip in the eyes of most Chiefs fans.

The Chiefs passed on a possible franchise QB in favor of a non-impact, non-pass rushing defensive end. That would be fine and all if the Chiefs had ever, at some point in their 50 year history, drafted and developed a quarterback into a franchise player.

This is be an issue until they both retire.

Contrarian
09-21-2009, 04:39 PM
I disagree completely

One of the biggest problems with Cassell yesterday was that he was jumping at ghosts all day. Even when the pass rush wasn't their yet he was jumping around.

Disagree. Those ghosts had numbers on there sheets and about 325 pounds.

Tiger's Fan
09-21-2009, 04:40 PM
1 amazing drive, the other one was right there at the 20. They had 20 yards. While yes, he had to get them in, its not like he drove them 80 yards on that last drive though.

Cassel had to go 70plus 2 times, he did it once. That pass to Bowe was a think of beauty, you could NOT ask for a more perfect pass. Also, first time ever starting for the KC chiefs in a regular season game with a new team and 3 week old playbook. Not to shabby.

He's not great right now!

He sucks!

Never to get better...first games don't matter for immortals. They're immortal afterall.

Bane
09-21-2009, 04:41 PM
Quite honestly, there is no way that Tyson Jackson and Mark Sanchez aren't tied to the hip in the eyes of most Chiefs fans.

The Chiefs passed on a possible franchise QB in favor of a non-impact, non-pass rushing defensive end. That would be fine and all if the Chiefs had ever, at some point in their 50 year history, drafted and developed a quarterback into a franchise player.

This is be an issue until they both retire.

As true as the bible itself!!!o:-)

Micjones
09-21-2009, 04:42 PM
Are you kidding?

You were defending him during the preseason as if he was your retarded brother that was being picked on in school.

Couple things...

1. Calling him our best option at RT, at that time, can hardly be called a defense.

2. I made probably two dozen posts this off-season about signing Ray Willis to play RT for this football team. I've also gone on the record as having said I would support a Mark Tauscher or Jon Runyan signing.

3. I have at least a 16 game sample size to work from to evaluate how competently he can play the position WITH THIS ORGANIZATION.

Surely that's comparable to writing Cassel off after 2 games...
:rolleyes:

Tiger's Fan
09-21-2009, 04:43 PM
Quite honestly, there is no way that Tyson Jackson and Mark Sanchez aren't tied to the hip in the eyes of most Chiefs fans.

The Chiefs passed on a possible franchise QB in favor of a non-impact, non-pass rushing defensive end. That would be fine and all if the Chiefs had ever, at some point in their 50 year history, drafted and developed a quarterback into a franchise player.

This is be an issue until they both retire.

Oh, I agree.

It's just that some people get upset when it's brought up, then other times, bring it up themselves.

It's like people deny that they dwell on it, when they certainly do. On both sides of the issue.

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 04:46 PM
Give me a fucking break. This is exactly what I knew was going to happen.

This was Cassel's first game as a Chief in a new offensive system, throwing to one receiver who they just picked up during the week, playing for the first time on a lame leg that was just recovering from injury.

It simply amazes me that people are already drawing conclusions. Can we please wait until at least week 5 or 6 before we say anything about Cassel? He didn't have a great week, but who actually expected him to? He wasn't even named a starter until the last minute. Fucking hell.

Dicky McElephant
09-21-2009, 04:46 PM
Couple things...

1. Calling him our best option at RT, at that time, can hardly be called a defense.

2. I made probably two dozen posts this off-season about signing Ray Willis to play RT for this football team. I've also gone on the record as having said I would support a Mark Tauscher or Jon Runyan signing.

3. I have at least a 16 game sample size to work from to evaluate how competently he can play the position WITH THIS ORGANIZATION.

Surely that's comparable to writing Cassel off after 2 games...
:rolleyes:

Holy Christ. Where did I write off Cassel after two games? I said that this team would be further ahead with a QB and NT instead of a 3-4 DE and a QB.

Fruit Ninja
09-21-2009, 04:47 PM
He's not great right now!

He sucks!

Never to get better...first games don't matter for immortals. They're immortal afterall.

Ya, people expect way to fast in a horrible situation. Jets were fairly decent last year, they were not a horrible team. on the other hand if it wasnt for the worst team in football history the Chiefs would have been easily the worst team in the NFL. We were 2 for sure. We had absolutely no offense, no defense, no special teams. Contrary to what Fucktard Herm Edwards said, this team about about 10 percent built, not 85.

This year from me this team gets a pass, but if they dont at least hit 8-8 next year, then i may start get upset at the new regime.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 04:48 PM
Couple things...

1. Calling him our best option at RT, at that time, can hardly be called a defense.

2. I made probably two dozen posts this off-season about signing Ray Willis to play RT for this football team. I've also gone on the record as having said I would support a Mark Tauscher or Jon Runyan signing.

3. I have at least a 16 game sample size to work from to evaluate how competently he can play the position WITH THIS ORGANIZATION.

Surely that's comparable to writing Cassel off after 2 games...
:rolleyes:

Dude, come on. It was far more than just a couple of posts. It was post after post after post. I swear, I'm going to start subscribing to your posts just so I don't have to use the search function.

As for Runyan and Tauscher, both guys appear to finished. There are injuries all across the league and neither guy has been signed.

Fruit Ninja
09-21-2009, 04:49 PM
Give me a ****ing break. This is exactly what I knew was going to happen.

This was Cassel's first game as a Chief in a new offensive system, throwing to one receiver who they just picked up during the week, playing for the first time on a lame leg that was just recovering from injury.

It simply amazes me that people are already drawing conclusions. Can we please wait until at least week 5 or 6 before we say anything about Cassel? He didn't have a great week, but who actually expected him to? He wasn't even named a starter until the last minute. ****ing hell.
I am not one of them angry people that your talking about, but i can kind of understand that after 40 years, they want to win. Some of these guys have no clue what its like for any oftheir teams to win it all in their sport. I am luckily to be a part of alot in other sports. Its a great great feeling. Something most fans here have no clue about.

Micjones
09-21-2009, 04:49 PM
Holy Christ. Where did I write off Cassel after two games? I said that this team would be further ahead with a QB and NT instead of a 3-4 DE and a QB.

Sorry... What the hell was I thinking?
You telling us all, after 2 games, you'd rather have another QB and that you believe he would've been the better option for this football team...that...THAT can't be called writing someone off.

ROFL

Wanna discredit a poster on ChiefsPlanet?
Just let them talk.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 04:50 PM
This year from me this team gets a pass, but if they dont at least hit 8-8 next year, then i may start get upset at the new regime.

Then you might as well get it over with now because the Chiefs are not likely to get even close to 8-8 next year. There are just far too many holes on this roster that can't and won't be filled with the draft. And with an impending uncapped year, fourth-year players that were eligible for free-agency under the current CBA will now be restricted for another year.

What that means is that the good players will not likely be available for anything less than a draft choice. So don't expect to see much movement in free agency.

Dicky McElephant
09-21-2009, 04:51 PM
Sorry... What the hell was I thinking.
After just two games you're willing to stake your reputation on the fact that ANOTHER QB would be better in this system.

THAT can't be called writing someone off.

ROFL

Wanna discredit a poster on ChiefsPlanet?
Just let them talk.

No...that would not be considered writing someone off. Fuck dipshit...read the post.

THE COMBINATION OF QB/NT WOULD BE BETTER FOR THIS TEAM....INSTEAD OF DE/QB.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 04:51 PM
Sorry... What the hell was I thinking?
You telling us all, after 2 games, you'd rather have another QB and that you believe he would've been the better option for this football team...that...THAT can't be called writing someone off.

ROFL

Wanna discredit a poster on ChiefsPlanet?
Just let them talk.

Well this is just nonsense.

Mark Sanchez would be a better option for this football team, period.

Regardless of their current talent level.

jaa1025
09-21-2009, 04:52 PM
Cassell>Sanchez
Croyle> Sanchez

Micjones
09-21-2009, 04:52 PM
Dude, come on. It was far more than just a couple of posts. It was post after post after post. I swear, I'm going to start subscribing to your posts just so I don't have to use the search function.

I stand by what I said. One post or twenty...
He was CLEARLY our best option on the team at the RT spot.

As for Runyan and Tauscher, both guys appear to finished. There are injuries all across the league and neither guy has been signed.

Try not to miss the forest for the trees kay?

The point I was trying to make is...
If I were so comfortable with McIntosh I would never have clamored for someone else to replace him.

Micjones
09-21-2009, 04:52 PM
Well this is just nonsense.

Mark Sanchez would be a better option for this football team, period.

Regardless of their current talent level.

Just cause huh?
ROFL

Dicky McElephant
09-21-2009, 04:53 PM
Cassell>Sanchez
Croyle> Sanchez

:rolleyes:

Tiger's Fan
09-21-2009, 04:53 PM
Holy Christ. Where did I write off Cassel after two games? I said that this team would be further ahead with a QB and NT instead of a 3-4 DE and a QB.

Is that because we got gashed up the gut all day yesterday like hamas suggests he saw?

Or is it because TJ is a bust because he only had one tackle like that halfwit moran was rambling on about?

cdcox
09-21-2009, 04:53 PM
The next Farve?.....was not even remotely try to say that.
I was just saying that I can more readily accept an "un-drafted by KC QB" that might have the potential to become a franchise QB, if he's young enough and has never been the face of another team. It wouldn't give me that empty feeling you were expressing about KC drafting there own. Len Dawson was in that same "undrafted by original team before the became franchise QB's" boat as Farve.

Let's look at what is most likely based on history. I'll use the top 25 from this list:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=6029078

Did they become stars with the team where they played their first season?

1. Joe Montana - yes
2. Johnny Unitas - yes (drafted by Pittsburg but never played for them, street free agent for the Colts)
3. John Elway - yes, excepting the trade
4. Terry Bradshaw - yes
5. Bart Starr - Yes
6. Tom Brady - Yes
7. Peyton Manning - Yes
8. Dan Marino - Yes
9. Otto Graham - Yes
10. Brett Favre - No
11. Troy Aikman - Yes
12. Steve Young - No
13. Roger Staubach - Yes
14. Fran Tarkenton - Yes, traded to NYG due to disagreements with coach
15. Joe Namath - Yes
16. Sammy Baugh - Yes
17. Bobby Layne - No
18. Dan Fouts - Yes
19. Bob Griese - Yes
20. Jim Kelly - I'm giving this a Yes even though he played in the USFL, since the Bills drafted him
21. Len Dawson - No
22. Sonny Jurgensen - Yes, was an all-pro before he was traded
23. Y.A. Tittle - No moved around
24. Warren Moon - I'm giving him a No, since he developed in Canada
25. Sid Luckman - Yes

80% of the top QBs were stars with their first team. It is by far the most common way that star QBs emerge.

JOhn
09-21-2009, 04:54 PM
WOW, Thank you all for gracing us with your vast QB expertise....Now if we can get the management of the CHIEFS to listened we can begin the new search for a QB.

It really is a time saving thing to be able to evaluate a QB after one regular season game. Heck at this rate we should be able to check out 20 to 30 QB's in the next 2 seasons, then win a SB in 20011 :D

Dicky McElephant
09-21-2009, 04:54 PM
Is that because we got gashed up the gut all day yesterday like hamas suggests he saw?

Or is it because TJ is a bust because he only had one tackle like that halfwit moran was rambling on about?

No that would be because a NT is more important than a DE in the 3-4.

Micjones
09-21-2009, 04:55 PM
WOW, Thank you all for gracing us with your vast QB expertise....Now if we can get the management of the CHIEFS to listened we can begin the new search for a QB.

It really is a time saving thing to be able to evaluate a QB after one regular season game. Heck at this rate we should be able to check out 20 to 30 QB's in the next 2 seasons, then win a SB in 20011 :D

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 04:55 PM
Just cause huh?
ROFL

Laugh all you want, Funnyman.

All I can say is that your "personnel evaluations" have been the absolute worst on this forum, time after time.

Do we need to go through this exercise once more?

JFC.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 04:56 PM
WOW, Thank you all for gracing us with your vast QB expertise....Now if we can get the management of the CHIEFS to listened we can begin the new search for a QB.

You're quite welcome

:D

Bane
09-21-2009, 04:56 PM
Let's look at what is most likely based on history. I'll use the top 25 from this list:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=6029078

Did they become stars with the team where they played their first season?

1. Joe Montana - yes
2. Johnny Unitas - yes (drafted by Pittsburg but never played for them, street free agent for the Colts)
3. John Elway - yes, excepting the trade
4. Terry Bradshaw - yes
5. Bart Starr - Yes
6. Tom Brady - Yes
7. Peyton Manning - Yes
8. Dan Marino - Yes
9. Otto Graham - Yes
10. Brett Favre - No
11. Troy Aikman - Yes
12. Steve Young - No
13. Roger Staubach - Yes
14. Fran Tarkenton - Yes, traded to NYG due to disagreements with coach
15. Joe Namath - Yes
16. Sammy Baugh - Yes
17. Bobby Layne - No
18. Dan Fouts - Yes
19. Bob Griese - Yes
20. Jim Kelly - I'm giving this a Yes even though he played in the USFL, since the Bills drafted him
21. Len Dawson - No
22. Sonny Jurgensen - Yes, was an all-pro before he was traded
23. Y.A. Tittle - No moved around
24. Warren Moon - I'm giving him a No, since he developed in Canada
25. Sid Luckman - Yes

80% of the top QBs were stars with their first team. It is by far the most common way that star QBs emerge.

Thats about as plain and simple as it gets.:clap:

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 04:56 PM
Cassell>Sanchez
Croyle> Sanchez

AIDS > Tree > You

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 04:58 PM
Cassell>Sanchez
Croyle> Sanchez


Flaming AIDS Tree in a pool of raw sewage>You

Tiger's Fan
09-21-2009, 05:00 PM
No that would be because a NT is more important than a DE in the 3-4.

Unless you already have one, but don't have the other?

Micjones
09-21-2009, 05:00 PM
Laugh all you want, Funnyman.

All I can say is that your "personnel evaluations" have been the absolute worst on this forum, time after time.

Do we need to go through this exercise once more?

JFC.

I've never touted myself as an NFL scout.

I'd really like to know that "personnel evaluations" I've botched though...
McIntosh can't be called one of them. I've NEVER exactly been a fan of his and calling him "serviceable" can't be called an endorsement. That's like saying I want a woman to be my girlfriend because she's "fuckable". Color you confused.

Here's what I know... In Football or Fly Fishing it's probably a bad idea to make snap judgments with very little information to go on. But I'm sure in your pursuit of being hailed as the end all-be all of NFL knowledge you'll tell me I'm wrong... That's kinda what you do here.

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 05:00 PM
I am not one of them angry people that your talking about, but i can kind of understand that after 40 years, they want to win. Some of these guys have no clue what its like for any oftheir teams to win it all in their sport. I am luckily to be a part of alot in other sports. Its a great great feeling. Something most fans here have no clue about.

I understand and appreciate the fanaticism of the fan base. It's just ridiculous to me that fans have players/coaches who can do no wrong and players/coaches who can do nothing right.

It doesn't bother me that fans are disappointed with Cassel. It pisses me off that there are some who are practically rooting against him just to prove a point that the Chiefs fucked up by not getting Sanchez. On the other end, there are those who think Pioli and Haley have everything figured out and that it's wrong to question any decisions they make.

I don't have an opinion on Cassel, but I'm rooting for him to do well. I could care less how good he is compared to Sanchez, as long as he's winning us games in a few years. Eli Manning is half the quarterback Philip Rivers is production-wise. But guess which one of those two has been more successful.

Bunit
09-21-2009, 05:00 PM
Cassel had no time to get us down the field because the line. He had someone in his face that whole last drive.

Bane
09-21-2009, 05:02 PM
Flaming AIDS Tree in a pool of raw sewage>You

Flaming aids tree????ROFL

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 05:02 PM
I've never touted myself as an NFL scout.

I'd really like to know that "personnel evaluations" I've botched though...
McIntosh can't be called one of them. I've NEVER exactly been a fan of his and calling him "serviceable" can't be called an endorsement. That's like saying I want a woman to be my girlfriend because she's "fuckable". Color you confused.

Here's what I know. In Football or Fly Fishing it's probably a bad idea to make snap judgments with very little information to go on. But I'm sure in your pursuit of being hailed as the end all-be all of NFL knowledge you'll tell me I'm wrong... And without fail...you, sir, will be wrong...again.

I've never gone fly-fishing.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just bringing up your quotes, many of which we've sparred over the past year. Such as Huard over Thigpen, McIntosh over anyone, DJ over anyone, etc.

When I have more time and willingness, I'll be more than happy to search them all again. As a matter of fact, I did subscribe to the Huard over Thigpen thread so I can bring that up at any time.

Bunit
09-21-2009, 05:02 PM
Why don't some of you just go root for the fucking Jets. I get it. You wanted Sanchez but it didn't happen and aint gonna happen. Cassel is our man so at least root for him rather than against him.

Halfcan
09-21-2009, 05:08 PM
Way too early to tell with Cassel-but I was not impressed.

OnTheWarpath58
09-21-2009, 05:09 PM
Why don't some of you just go root for the fucking Jets. I get it. You wanted Sanchez but it didn't happen and aint gonna happen. Cassel is our man so at least root for him rather than against him.

I spent 3 hours rooting for him yesterday.

That doesn't mean I'm going to give him a pass when he plays a sub-par game.

As he did yesterday.

Micjones
09-21-2009, 05:14 PM
I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just bringing up your quotes, many of which we've sparred over the past year. Such as Huard over Thigpen, McIntosh over anyone, DJ over anyone, etc.

Interesting that you made reference to the aforementioned players.
In EVERY case, I've said the very same thing. There's a common thread there.

FANS overreact. They're often out of touch with reality.

In the minds of SOME NFL fans... They don't see that players like McIntosh occupy roster spots all over the league. They don't believe in serviceable players. They believe they ought to scrap each and every player who isn't a perennial Pro Bowler. That ideology comes from people who really don't know how the NFL works.

All I ever said was McIntosh was serviceable.
What you tend to wanna gloss over is the fact that I've identified at least 3 RT's I'd rather have than McIntosh. I get it though... That nugget might throw a wrench in this porous argument that I was a fan of Damion McIntosh. Which would, in your mind, mean I was a poor evaluator of NFL talent.

As it relates to Huard... I believed he represented a better chance for this team to win than Tyler Thigpen. I think the numbers speak for themselves. This team clearly played better football with him at the helm.

And lastly with Derrick Johnson, all I've ever said is his biggest problem is the weight of expectation. He hasn't played to his draft position, but he's otherwise been a very productive LB. SOME Chiefs fans would've pink-slipped him because he hasn't lived up to his draft potential. But again... Those fans don't realize that he's pretty damn productive in this league and will play elsewhere if he's ever cut from this team.

When I have more time and willingness, I'll be more than happy to search them all again. As a matter of fact, I did subscribe to the Huard over Thigpen thread so I can bring that up at any time.

I've got a better idea...
How's about you put that time and willingness into being less reactionary and maybe, just maybe, you'll be a better poster?

DaWolf
09-21-2009, 05:15 PM
He doesn't have "IT" or we would have seen it yesterday.

I'm not going to sit here and say he does have "it" or doesn't have "it". What I am going to say is that A) He has led his team back from behind in the final minutes before:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xIhrHZPYlUU&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xIhrHZPYlUU&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

and B) Name me one QB who leads his team back to win every single game. I mean a QB who not once has failed. For example, I would argue that Brett Favre has proven without a doubt that he has "it" but he also has thrown numerous dumb picks to cost his team games at the end (see championship, NFC, Giants).

You can't make statements like that based on one game. If the defense holds then he is credited with a 4th quarter comeback win, so you could argue that a better team gets him the victory anyway.

Again, I'm not arguing that he is this great QB, he made his share of errors yesterday, but I am saying that he needs a few more games under his belt before we start making blanket statements...

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 05:16 PM
I've got a better idea...
How's about you put that time and willingness into being less reactionary and maybe, just maybe, you'll be a better poster?

Thanks for the advice but I think I'll pass.

Just like the Chiefs did to Mark Tauscher, Jon Runyan and Ray Willis.

Oh, and Damion McIntosh.

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 05:17 PM
I'm not going to sit here and say he does have "it" or doesn't have "it". What I am going to say is that A) He has led his team back from behind in the final minutes before:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xIhrHZPYlUU&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xIhrHZPYlUU&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

and B) Name me one QB who leads his team back to win every single game. I mean a QB who not once has failed. For example, I would argue that Brett Favre has proven without a doubt that he has "it" but he also has thrown numerous dumb picks to cost his team games at the end (see championship, NFC, Giants).

You can't make statements like that based on one game. If the defense holds then he is credited with a 4th quarter comeback win, so you could argue that a better team gets him the victory anyway.

Again, I'm not arguing that he is this great QB, he made his share of errors yesterday, but I am saying that he needs a few more games under his belt before we start making blanket statements...

Not to mention the fact that Cassel did lead his team from behind, and the Chiefs' defense blew it in the last minutes of the game. It's hard enough to lead a team from behind. It's a lot harder to have to do it twice on consecutive drives.

Cassel's no Big Ben or Brady. But how many people are, really?

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 05:17 PM
Why don't some of you just go root for the fucking Jets. I get it. You wanted Sanchez but it didn't happen and aint gonna happen. Cassel is our man so at least root for him rather than against him.

I have a better idea:

I'll root for BOTH guys until we play each other, and you can begin the fine art of minding your own goddamned business and not dictating to myself and others what constitutes a Chiefs fan.
n00b.

Bane
09-21-2009, 05:18 PM
Why don't some of you just go root for the ****ing Jets. I get it. You wanted Sanchez but it didn't happen and aint gonna happen. Cassel is our man so at least root for him rather than against him.

I did root for the Jets.mainly cause I dont like the Pats,but I still rooted for them.:cuss:

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 05:21 PM
I spent 3 hours rooting for him yesterday.

That doesn't mean I'm going to give him a pass when he plays a sub-par game.

As he did yesterday.

But there's a difference between a subpar game and a horrendous game.

Cassel played a really good game, but made a few really boneheaded mistakes. That shouldn't take away the fact that he did some really good things during the game.

I don't think anybody's giving him a pass. Nobody here is saying he electrified the world and it's stupid for anybody to say that he's better than Sanchez (just as it's stupid for anyone to say Sanchez is better than Cassel--we simply don't know right now). What I think most people are saying is that if he fixes his boneheaded mistakes, he should turn out to be a pretty good QB. There's no guarantee that he will, but it's ridiculous for some people to make snap long-term judgments.

Micjones
09-21-2009, 05:24 PM
Thanks for the advice but I think I'll pass.

Just like the Chiefs did to Mark Tauscher, Jon Runyan and Ray Willis.

Oh, and Damion McIntosh.

Difference being...

The Chiefs still identified what they believe were reasonably viable alternatives. So by extension... The least you could do is work on being less of a dickhead, right? I mean... You can keep the reactionary part...
:D

Bunit
09-21-2009, 05:27 PM
I spent 3 hours rooting for him yesterday.

That doesn't mean I'm going to give him a pass when he plays a sub-par game.

As he did yesterday.

Yeah, dude playe a sub par game. I'm not giving him a pass either but it was his first start coming off a mcl injury. He did show some good with the bad and our o-line still sucks. Just seems like some people would rather see him fail just to prove their point of Sanchez over him.

DaWolf
09-21-2009, 05:29 PM
Not to mention the fact that Cassel did lead his team from behind, and the Chiefs' defense blew it in the last minutes of the game. It's hard enough to lead a team from behind. It's a lot harder to have to do it twice on consecutive drives.

Cassel's no Big Ben or Brady. But how many people are, really?

Cassel is what he is, he is probably at that second level of QB's. He's one of those guys who if you surround him with a good team, he can win. He's not going to be one of those guys who elevates the play of the team, at least that's not what he's shown in 16 NFL starts. But that second level, you really don't have all that many guys in that category.

Most top QB's also have a good surrounding cast. I can't think of very many top guys who won with no support. So to think that a Cassel is going to singlehandedly turn this team around and lead them to wins would be wrong. They need to build a team here. Pioli brought Cassel in here to be part of the answer, not the solution...

OnTheWarpath58
09-21-2009, 05:31 PM
But there's a difference between a subpar game and a horrendous game.

Cassel played a really good game,

Stop.

If < 250 yards passing on 39 attempts, and a 1/2 TD/INT ratio is a "really good game" then this kid is set for life.

Again, I'm saying he had a sup-par game. Not horrendous.

And certainly not "a really good game."

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 05:31 PM
Difference being...

The Chiefs still identified what they believe were reasonably viable alternatives. So by extension... The least you could do is work on being less of a dickhead, right? I mean... You can keep the reactionary part...
:D

That's a tall order

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 05:32 PM
Cassel is what he is, he is probably at that second level of QB's. He's one of those guys who if you surround him with a good team, he can win.

In other words, Trent Green 2.0.

Lovely.

Micjones
09-21-2009, 05:33 PM
That's a tall order

Well... How tall are you?
:D

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 05:33 PM
Cassel is what he is, he is probably at that second level of QB's. He's one of those guys who if you surround him with a good team, he can win. He's not going to be one of those guys who elevates the play of the team, at least that's not what he's shown in 16 NFL starts. But that second level, you really don't have all that many guys in that category.

Most top QB's also have a good surrounding cast. I can't think of very many top guys who won with no support. So to think that a Cassel is going to singlehandedly turn this team around and lead them to wins would be wrong. They need to build a team here. Pioli brought Cassel in here to be part of the answer, not the solution...

I agree, but I don't think it's beyond thinking he can be one day. I believe work ethic is by far the most underrated quality of any quarterback. From the sound of it, his work ethic is as strong as any QB in the league. I think it says an awful lot that he's watching game tape of Kurt Warner to see if he can learn off of that.

One of the reasons I also like him is that I believe he does have that "it" factor that Croyle does not. He's a natural leader and you can tell his teammates really respond well to him. I saw a similar thing in Thigpen, though Thigpen's play on the field never really matched up to the leadership.

The proof is in the pudding. He has to prove that these qualities will translate into results and for many QBs, it never does. But I think people underestimate Cassel's upside. I can guarantee that he's watching so much tape on this game that his eyeballs are going to pop out.

Micjones
09-21-2009, 05:36 PM
In other words, Trent Green 2.0.

Lovely.

You're really going to thumb your nose at 21,000 Passing Yards and 118 TD's?

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2009, 05:40 PM
You're really going to thumb your nose at 21,000 Passing Yards and 118 TD's?

Fantasy fucking Football is not the proper way to judge a quarterback's ability.

The dude had 3 Hall of Fame players on his offense alone, three multiple time Pro Bowlers (Waters, LJ, TRich), and guy who was a HOF talent if not for injury (Priest).

Trent wasn't a bad quarterback, but fuck, how are you *not* going to put up huge numbers in that system with that talent around you?

DaWolf
09-21-2009, 05:40 PM
I agree, but I don't think it's beyond thinking he can be one day. I believe work ethic is by far the most underrated quality of any quarterback. From the sound of it, his work ethic is as strong as any QB in the league. I think it says an awful lot that he's watching game tape of Kurt Warner to see if he can learn off of that.

One of the reasons I also like him is that I believe he does have that "it" factor that Croyle does not. He's a natural leader and you can tell his teammates really respond well to him. I saw a similar thing in Thigpen, though Thigpen's play on the field never really matched up to the leadership.

The proof is in the pudding. He has to prove that these qualities will translate into results and for many QBs, it never does. But I think people underestimate Cassel's upside. I can guarantee that he's watching so much tape on this game that his eyeballs are going to pop out.

Unfortunately that doesn't always translate into success. The true mark is if he comes back strong from this. If we see Cassel continuing to make the same mistakes over and over again, well then you've got another Grbac.

The guy is still young in QB standards considering he's just completed his 16th NFL start. You see guys like Flacco and Ryan turning it up a notch now. Not that Cassel is those guys, they were first rounders for a reason, but I want to see Cassel improve and not do the same poor things again and again. Then you can say the hard work is paying off...

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 05:44 PM
Stop.

If < 250 yards passing on 39 attempts, and a 1/2 TD/INT ratio is a "really good game" then this kid is set for life.

Again, I'm saying he had a sup-par game. Not horrendous.

And certainly not "a really good game."

Statistically speaking, no, he didn't have a good game.

But if you actually look at the things he did in the game (minus the mistakes), he did a lot of really good things. He took a lot of big chances and made some big third down throws. He saved a lot of broken plays by making plays with his legs (34 yards rushing with his legs). If you add in the 34 yards rushing plus the dropped passes, he would have easily had over 300 all purpose yards which is good for a pro. And, unlike Croyle, he wasn't afraid to throw the ball in tight spots.

I also think people underestimate some of the things he did to bolster the running game. It seems like a small deal, but Cassel does a lot of things prior to the handoff that catches defenses a little bit off-guard. If you pay close attention, he does a lot more in terms of delayed handoffs and pitches that Croyle and Huard never did--they always seemed really lazy in their approach.

The offense was a lot better this week because he was in it. He has a long way to go and he'll never be successful unless he becomes consistent. But if you're willing to overlook some of the huge mistakes he made, there's some pretty good stuff in-between.

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 05:46 PM
Unfortunately that doesn't always translate into success. The true mark is if he comes back strong from this. If we see Cassel continuing to make the same mistakes over and over again, well then you've got another Grbac.

The guy is still young in QB standards considering he's just completed his 16th NFL start. You see guys like Flacco and Ryan turning it up a notch now. Not that Cassel is those guys, they were first rounders for a reason, but I want to see Cassel improve and not do the same poor things again and again. Then you can say the hard work is paying off...

No, I completely agree with you. I'm looking at it purely from an upside standpoint. Upside speaks to your ability to grow, not necessarily a guarantee that you'll get better. There's a good chance Cassel never realizes that upside--lots of hard-working QBs have failed. But I think the fact that he has those intangibles makes him more likely to have upside than a lot of other QBs.

DeezNutz
09-21-2009, 05:48 PM
But if you actually look at the things he did in the game (minus the mistakes), he did a lot of really good things.

For whom is this not accurate?

Are you kidding me? Mistakes aside, he was perfect!

Micjones
09-21-2009, 05:51 PM
Fantasy fucking Football is not the proper way to judge a quarterback's ability.

Good thing FF isn't based on official statistics.
You're right though...We should probably judge Trent Green on something else like how well he can cook.
ROFL

The dude had 3 Hall of Fame players on his offense alone, three multiple time Pro Bowlers (Waters, LJ, TRich), and guy who was a HOF talent if not for injury (Priest).

He had good football players around him. Most good QB's do.
How exactly does that diminish what he was able to accomplish?
Do you really want us to believe that's a plug and play system that doesn't require any talent?

DaWolf
09-21-2009, 05:52 PM
Trent wasn't a bad quarterback, but ****, how are you *not* going to put up huge numbers in that system with that talent around you?

I don't disagree regarding Green, he was what he was. But you could say that about a lot of guys. Classic example is Kurt Warner. He was a freaking journeyman in between Holt/Bruce and Fitzgerald/Boldin, but he was a Super Bowl QB with them. Still, you need a guy to deliver the ball and make plays, so even if you have great offensive talent, not everyone takes advantage of it the way they should...

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 05:56 PM
For whom is this not accurate?

Are you kidding me? Mistakes aside, he was perfect!

He made a few big mistakes, but was mostly good. Contrast that with Jamarcus Russel, who made a few big plays, but was mostly horrendous.

If you're talking about a QB who's still inexperienced and learning, you'd much rather have the former than the latter. You can learn from mistakes and you can become consistent with experience.

DeezNutz
09-21-2009, 06:01 PM
He made a few big mistakes, but was mostly good. Contrast that with Jamarcus Russel, who made a few big plays, but was mostly horrendous.

If you're talking about a QB who's still inexperienced and learning, you'd much rather have the former than the latter. You can learn from mistakes and you can become consistent with experience.

He's 27 and was hand-picked to hit the ground running.

We're not talking about a drafted n00b because that's just something that the Chiefs don't do.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2009, 06:01 PM
Good thing FF isn't based on official statistics.
You're right though...We should probably judge Trent Green on something else like how well he can cook.
ROFL



Wow, you so fucking thoroughly missed the point it's like you were JaMarcus Russell trying to hit a receiver in the flat.

Micjones
09-21-2009, 06:05 PM
Wow, you so fucking thoroughly missed the point it's like you were JaMarcus Russell trying to hit a receiver in the flat.

No suh.
I understood exactly what you were trying to say.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2009, 06:08 PM
No suh.
I understood exactly what you were trying to say.

And yet you responded with the same dumbass tripe that stats are the end all evaluator of a quarterback, which is clearly why people would take Marino or Moon over Montana or Elway and Philip Rivers over Ben Roethlisberger.

Micjones
09-21-2009, 06:21 PM
And yet you responded with the same dumbass tripe that stats are the end all evaluator of a quarterback, which is clearly why people would take Marino or Moon over Montana or Elway and Philip Rivers over Ben Roethlisberger.

I'm sorry would you care to point me to where I called statistics the end all evaluator at ANY position in the NFL?

I'm merely making the point that Green was a VERY productive QB for this football team and that we'd be in great shape if Cassel were remotely as successful with this organization.

But I guess championship rings are a more accurate evaluator of QB talent in the NFL.
Which is clearly why people would take Trent Dilfer over Dan Marino.

You really oughta be careful stringing words like "dumbass" and "tripe" together.

Fairplay
09-21-2009, 06:27 PM
Why can't we just once try to develop our own GREAT guy instead of always settling for the guy some other team doesn't want. Green turned out okay, but he only rose to the level of very good. Why not go for great?


Impossible i say, just impossible.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2009, 06:36 PM
I'm sorry would you care to point me to where I called statistics the end all evaluator at ANY position in the NFL?

I'm merely making the point that Green was a VERY productive QB for this football team and that we'd be in great shape if Cassel were remotely as successful with this organization.

But I guess championship rings are a more accurate evaluator of QB talent in the NFL.
Which is clearly why people would take Trent Dilfer over Dan Marino.

You really oughta be careful stringing words like "dumbass" and "tripe" together.

It's pretty clear.

You stated Green's stats as your defense of him, as though 21K passing yards and X # of touchdowns really evaluates him as a QB.

Then when that fallacy is pointed out, you act as though there is no other recourse for evaluation, when you laugh and ask me if we should evaluate his cooking skills.

It's pretty clear that you were painting a one-dimensional approach towards an evaluation.

The fact of the matter is that QB is a position that is least defined by stats; Go up and look at the guys with the top QB ratings of all-time. Notice how it's skewed.

Micjones
09-21-2009, 06:55 PM
It's pretty clear.

You stated Green's stats as your defense of him, as though 21K passing yards and X # of touchdowns really evaluates him as a QB.

You can build around QB's who give you that kind of productivity and consistency over the years. Not sure why this is difficult for you to understand. 20,000 passing yards and 100+ TD's with 1 team isn't exactly pedestrian.

Then when that fallacy is pointed out, you act as though there is no other recourse for evaluation, when you laugh and ask me if we should evaluate his cooking skills.

Because you acted as though official performance records can be thrown away when evaluating a QB's worth. That's nonsense.

It's pretty clear that you were painting a one-dimensional approach towards an evaluation.

The fact of the matter is that QB is a position that is least defined by stats; Go up and look at the guys with the top QB ratings of all-time. Notice how it's skewed.

What's clear is that your ideology for evaluating the position is even less stable. Championship rings do not a great QB make. Sorry...

The fact remains that if Cassel is able to amass 20,000 and 100+ TD's with this franchise (over 6 seasons)... It will mean he's been durable, fairly efficient, and one of the better QB's in the league year in and year out. Guess you missed that nuanced part of my argument though. S'okay.

noa
09-21-2009, 06:56 PM
If you can't tell from his first two NFL starts that this guy is going to superstar for a long time in this league (barring injury), you should just stop commenting now.

I watched his first two games and I sure can't tell that. All I can tell right now is that the Jets defense is playing well and so is the offensive line. Sanchez made some very poor passes yesterday and his lone TD was thanks in large part to the offensive line giving him all day so his TE could run a route that took a while to develop. Overall, I'd say he played OK yesterday. He wasn't asked to do much. He certainly didn't lose the game for them. I think he's good, and he's lucky to be in a good environment right now, but I really don't think he's solidified his status as a future superstar yet.

I guess it also depends what you consider a superstar. To me, the superstar QBs in the league are Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Peyton Manning. Philip Rivers might be there soon, but I think it's a stretch to say that you can already tell Sanchez is among this caliber of QB.

milkman
09-21-2009, 07:03 PM
Raised on Ritalin, try and keep up. He is asked to manage the game for the Jets. I get it dude. He is going to be asked to throw the ball 18-25 times in most games. That defense and running game behind their very good O line is their bread and butter.

I was a supporter of the Cassel trade. I also would have been fine with them taking Sanchez with their pick, even after the Cassel trade. There is a premium on the QB position in the NFL. Someone would have paid the ransom for him.

I really hate to get into this, but in the game against the Texans, he wasn't asked to win the game, except that the Jets couldn't get their running game going intil the fourth quarter, and Sanchez was something in the neighborhood of 9-12 passing in third down situations, including around 6 or 7 third and 7 or more to go.

Sanchez isn't lighting it up, but he is showing remarkable pocket presence and making very good decisions.

Dismissing what he's done so far as being asked to manage the game, not being asked to win games, is simply making assumptions without looking at facts.

milkman
09-21-2009, 07:09 PM
So did Trent Green have "it" then? There we're many games I saw with the chance to go win the game and he'd fail. Guess he wasn't a franchise QB either. Let's go further....what about Elway? When he was younger and in the league he wasn't a great QB and missed opportunities like that too. You don't scrap a QB as your franchise QB after one start.

Yes, he did make mistakes. He threw 2 int's that shouldn't have been thrown. But you know what? It was the first game of his career here. He's been off for the last 3 weeks and was expected to be rusty. They have a 3 week old offensive system. He's throwing to a brand new WR thats been on the team about 5 days.

He showed more to me of being a franchise QB than anyone has since Gannon. Frankly, I'm giddy over what he showed yesterday and think we FINALLY have a young franchise QB. FINALLY!

And Mark Sanchez wasn't what this team needed. We already had Cassell for chump change. Mark has had average numbers on a REALLY good, well rounded team. You think he'd do better on this team...your crazy if so.

First, Trent Green was not a franchise QB.

He was a good QB who put up great numbers because he had great protection from one of the best offensive lines ever.

In the clutch, however, he was inconsistent at best.

He never instilled any confidence that he could get it done.

Mark Sanchez is puuting up average numbers on a well rounded team. sure, but his first game as a starter, he threw for more yards as a rookie starting the first game of the season than any QB since Peyton Manning.

Yep, pretty average.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 07:11 PM
Ah people talking about Sanchez, I'm guessing he looks far better than anyone who didn't want him expected.

JASONSAUTO
09-21-2009, 07:13 PM
First off Cassel did some things that really impressed me yesterday. Well not like top tier QB type impressing but more like I haven't seen an NFL caliber QB play in KC for three years type impressing. Cassel more then anything had pocket presence. That is something I haven't seen here since Green. He moved in the pocket well he sinced the rush and he scrambled ONLY when he had too. Also while he was moving/scrambling he kept his eyes down field, all of this was rather refreshing. However(go chiefs get ready to start typing) he is not a "franchise quarterback." Here is why. At the end of the game he had plenty PLENTY of time to drive his team down field and put them in field goal position. Don't give me the Oline WR bullshit line. A "franchise quarterback" moves the team against all odds. That is what makes them stand out above the other typical QB's in the league. And yes you do, do it the first time you have the chance and the next time and the next time. Cassel is an ok QB and will win some games but he is not the guy that will be back there for 10-12 years and always putting fear into any team we play just because he has a jersey on. He doesn't have "IT" or we would have seen it yesterday.


yeah lets decide that after one game one chance.

Pioli Zombie
09-21-2009, 07:16 PM
It amazing how people make their declarations after 2 games of a regime. Did you think were going to the playoffs or something this year? They were a shitty ass 2-14 team. Belichick started 5-13 in New England. Johnsons first year in Dallas was 1-15. Walsh was 2-14 his first year. Noll, Shula, all of them. have a glass of milk and calm down.
Posted via Mobile Device

JASONSAUTO
09-21-2009, 07:16 PM
Nah he moved in the pocket much better then any QB on this roster. He was also able to get away from some rushers when they had their hands on him yet another thing we haven't seen here in a while. Either way He's not the guy. And by the way I wasn't trying to make this a Cassel/Sanchez thread(there's been like what at least two of those right) I was just pointing out he had his chance to prove he was a real FQB.........he's not.

why didnt brady win that game yesterday? i guess he's not a franchise qb
why didnt roethlisberger win that game yesterday? i guess he's not either.

oh oh, rivers not a franchise qb.

:rolleyes: all three of those franchise guys lost games that were winnable. does anyone think they are franchise QBs? anyone?

Pioli Zombie
09-21-2009, 07:18 PM
First off Cassel did some things that really impressed me yesterday. Well not like top tier QB type impressing but more like I haven't seen an NFL caliber QB play in KC for three years type impressing. Cassel more then anything had pocket presence. That is something I haven't seen here since Green. He moved in the pocket well he sinced the rush and he scrambled ONLY when he had too. Also while he was moving/scrambling he kept his eyes down field, all of this was rather refreshing. However(go chiefs get ready to start typing) he is not a "franchise quarterback." Here is why. At the end of the game he had plenty PLENTY of time to drive his team down field and put them in field goal position. Don't give me the Oline WR bullshit line. A "franchise quarterback" moves the team against all odds. That is what makes them stand out above the other typical QB's in the league. And yes you do, do it the first time you have the chance and the next time and the next time. Cassel is an ok QB and will win some games but he is not the guy that will be back there for 10-12 years and always putting fear into any team we play just because he has a jersey on. He doesn't have "IT" or we would have seen it yesterday.
What a dumbass thing to say after one game.
Posted via Mobile Device

JASONSAUTO
09-21-2009, 07:20 PM
I agree with the "one game" comment. However...

Roethlisberger never got the chance, as the Steelers return team fumbled the kick away - and even had they kept it, he would have had less than 15 seconds to drive 40 yards.

And in all fairness, Rivers did his part, driving over 50 yards, only to have his OC make a stupid play call when the game was on the line.

Cassel, OTOH, had 1:07 to work with and all 3 time outs, only to gain 6 yards and go 4-and-out.

so on the other teams it was someone else's fault but on ours it was all on cassel, got it.


now THAT is the same situation and hypocrisy

milkman
09-21-2009, 07:28 PM
Cassell>Sanchez
Croyle> Sanchez

JFC, the n00bs just keep getting more fucking stupid each and every day.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 07:29 PM
JFC, the n00bs just keep getting more fucking stupid each and every day.

It took Sanchez exactly 1 game to do something Croyle hasn't done in what 4?

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 07:30 PM
He's 27 and was hand-picked to hit the ground running.

We're not talking about a drafted n00b because that's just something that the Chiefs don't do.

Nobody said he'd be a guy who can hit the ground running. Why would the Chiefs care about that, in a year where they knew they were rebuilding?

He is inexperienced. And inexperienced QBs are going to make mistakes. Especially against a very good pass offense like Oakland's. Let's not pretend the guy's Kurt Warner. Even Warner didn't exactly hit the ground running in his first go-around in Arizona, did he.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2009, 07:30 PM
You can build around QB's who give you that kind of productivity and consistency over the years. Not sure why this is difficult for you to understand. 20,000 passing yards and 100+ TD's with 1 team isn't exactly pedestrian.



Because you acted as though official performance records can be thrown away when evaluating a QB's worth. That's nonsense.



What's clear is that your ideology for evaluating the position is even less stable. Championship rings do not a great QB make. Sorry...

The fact remains that if Cassel is able to amass 20,000 and 100+ TD's with this franchise (over 6 seasons)... It will mean he's been durable, fairly efficient, and one of the better QB's in the league year in and year out. Guess you missed that nuanced part of my argument though. S'okay.

1) I never said you couldn't
2) I never said this
3) I never said this, either

JASONSAUTO
09-21-2009, 07:30 PM
It took Sanchez exactly 1 game to do something Croyle hasn't done in what 4?

and it was all because of him.. JFC it's a fucking TEAM game. TEAM how hard is that to understand?

Mecca
09-21-2009, 07:31 PM
and it was all because of him.. JFC it's a fucking TEAM game. TEAM how hard is that to understand?

This will be a really amusing convo in about 4 or 5 years I'm sure.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2009, 07:32 PM
Nobody said he'd be a guy who can hit the ground running. Why would the Chiefs care about that, in a year where they knew they were rebuilding?

He is inexperienced. And inexperienced QBs are going to make mistakes. Especially against a very good pass offense like Oakland's. Let's not pretend the guy's Kurt Warner. Even Warner didn't exactly hit the ground running in his first go-around in Arizona, did he.

Think about this:

The dude is 27. We had his rights for two years.

We then decided to drop 60 million on said inexperienced QB when we had him for 14.

I'd like to know why it's ok to go through the growing pains with someone else's older trash that is no less expensive, mind you, but not someone that the franchise drafts and develops who is 5 years younger.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 07:34 PM
I'm already tired of hearing about Cassel's inexperience or how he needs time.

He's 27 if I wanted inexperience growing pains I'd have drafted a guy who's 22.

JASONSAUTO
09-21-2009, 07:34 PM
This will be a really amusing convo in about 4 or 5 years I'm sure.

why? will football cease to be a team game in 4-5 years?

JASONSAUTO
09-21-2009, 07:35 PM
Think about this:

The dude is 27. We had his rights for two years.

We then decided to drop 60 million on said inexperienced QB when we had him for 14.

I'd like to know why it's ok to go through the growing pains with someone else's older trash that is no less expensive, mind you, but not someone that the franchise drafts and develops who is 5 years younger.

hamas, you say we would have his rights for 2 years. those 2 years would cost us what? 28 million?

milkman
09-21-2009, 07:36 PM
Way too early to tell with Cassel-but I was not impressed.

After your absolutely fucking ridiculous and moronic Tyson Jackson thread, do you think anyone gives a rat's ass what you have to think?

MahiMike
09-21-2009, 07:36 PM
WTH is wrong with everybody? IT WAS HIS FIRST START!!!!

DeezNutz
09-21-2009, 07:37 PM
WTH is wrong with everybody? IT WAS HIS FIRST START!!!!

Of his career?

Sure-Oz
09-21-2009, 07:39 PM
I won't worry too much about this, but he has to play alot better than he did. This team is going to suck balls anyway, he has no line or wr's to throw worth a shit but that said that pass before the half is inexcusable

Mecca
09-21-2009, 07:39 PM
Remember when people said they'd rather have him than a rookie cause he has experience?

He's 27 he started basically all of last year, it's not his first career start he's not 22, he shouldn't be treated like a rookie. If he is then you are lowering realistic expectations.

Sure-Oz
09-21-2009, 07:41 PM
Remember when people said they'd rather have him than a rookie cause he has experience?

He's 27 he started basically all of last year, it's not his first career start he's not 22, he shouldn't be treated like a rookie. If he is then you are lowering realistic expectations.

I expect better from him honestly but i won't dogpile on him after just 1 start

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 07:44 PM
Think about this:

The dude is 27. We had his rights for two years.

We then decided to drop 60 million on said inexperienced QB when we had him for 14.

I'd like to know why it's ok to go through the growing pains with someone else's older trash that is no less expensive, mind you, but not someone that the franchise drafts and develops who is 5 years younger.

Because he is a good QB that is right now making rookie mistakes. It's not like we're talking about Jamarcus Russell, who misses almost all of his throws. Or Brady Quinn, who's not hitting anybody downfield.

Cassel is inexperienced, but he was still a safer play than Sanchez. If you don't believe that, then you can try to explain why Stafford, a QB most scouts had higher rated than Sanchez, is struggling where Sanchez is not. You can criticize the front office for taking the safer play if you want. That's a legit argument. But 1) we still have no idea if Sanchez is the real deal--we'll see once defenses start adjusting to him; 2) let's not forget for one second that Sanchez's success is a complete surprise. Even his biggest supporters didn't expect him to come out gunning like this with minimal growing pains.

LTL
09-21-2009, 07:44 PM
I remember a game on MNF where Grbac hit Rison for a late TD to give us a win over the Raiders, so would that make him a franchise QB for doing that?

Mecca
09-21-2009, 07:45 PM
Because he is a good QB that is right now making rookie mistakes. It's not like we're talking about Jamarcus Russell, who misses almost all of his throws. Or Brady Quinn, who's not hitting anybody downfield.

Cassel is inexperienced, but he was still a safer play than Sanchez. If you don't believe that, then you can try to explain why Stafford, a QB most scouts had higher rated than Sanchez, is struggling where Sanchez is not. You can criticize the front office for taking the safer play if you want. That's a legit argument. But 1) we still have no idea if Sanchez is the real deal--we'll see once defenses start adjusting to him; 2) let's not forget for one second that Sanchez's success is a complete surprise. Even his biggest supporters didn't expect him to come out gunning like this with minimal growing pains.

Sanchez is more NFL ready than Stafford is why he looks better right now.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2009, 07:45 PM
hamas, you say we would have his rights for 2 years. those 2 years would cost us what? 28 million?

Yup. Or we could trade him, and he could work out a deal with McDaniels or someone else.

The point is, why commit 60 million to a guy, and make him basically untradeable due to accelerted bonuses when you own his rights for two years, you're in a good cap situation, and if he plays at a level that you don't think warrants a huge contract, you can restructure and pay him fair market value for his services.

Strikes me as a move where Pioli bought high on an asset he already held.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2009, 07:47 PM
Because he is a good QB that is right now making rookie mistakes. It's not like we're talking about Jamarcus Russell, who misses almost all of his throws. Or Brady Quinn, who's not hitting anybody downfield.

Cassel is inexperienced, but he was still a safer play than Sanchez. If you don't believe that, then you can try to explain why Stafford, a QB most scouts had higher rated than Sanchez, is struggling where Sanchez is not. You can criticize the front office for taking the safer play if you want. That's a legit argument. But 1) we still have no idea if Sanchez is the real deal--we'll see once defenses start adjusting to him; 2) let's not forget for one second that Sanchez's success is a complete surprise. Even his biggest supporters didn't expect him to come out gunning like this with minimal growing pains.

I'm just taken aback at the sliding scale that gets applied to an older player with less upside, virtually no experience, and who costs the same solely due to the fact that there is an Arrowhead on the side of his helmet.

JASONSAUTO
09-21-2009, 07:47 PM
Yup. Or we could trade him, and he could work out a deal with McDaniels or someone else.

The point is, why commit 60 million to a guy, and make him basically untradeable due to accelerted bonuses when you own his rights for two years, you're in a good cap situation, and if he plays at a level that you don't think warrants a huge contract, you can restructure and pay him fair market value for his services.

Strikes me as a move where Pioli bought high on an asset he already held.

so we could keep him for two years and give him 28 million, trade him, OR sign him to a long term contract and guarantee him......



28 million.



yep fuck that guy pioli, he's stupid

wild1
09-21-2009, 07:47 PM
Everybody sucks. Everything and everyone Chiefs sucks. I got it.

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 07:48 PM
Of his career?

Here's a stat line for you:
19 for 47
262 yards
1 TD / 1 INT
in a 19-42 embarrassing loss to the Giants

and

22 for 35
253 yards
2 TDs / 1 INT
in a close 20-23 loss to the Chiefs


One of them was Kurt Warner, a seasoned veteran, entering a new, developing team. The other one was Matt Leinart, a QB with no experience, entering his first NFL start.

Guess which one was which.

MahiMike
09-21-2009, 07:49 PM
Man, the Raiders fans must be trolling and laughing. Everybody's melting down. We'll be fine. Give it time.

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 07:51 PM
Of his career?


Example #2:
17 for 36, 244 yards, 1 TD, 4 INTs
an embarrassing performance in a 15-22 loss

The next week:
27-38
238 yards
2 TDs, 0 INTs
against arguably the best defense in the NFL: Pittsburgh, in a 17-14 win

You know who this is. And it's a veteran with a lot of NFL experience.

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 07:54 PM
I'm just taken aback at the sliding scale that gets applied to an older player with less upside, virtually no experience, and who costs the same solely due to the fact that there is an Arrowhead on the side of his helmet.

Having little experience is one thing.
Having the intangibles that Pioli noticed every day in practice for nearly 5 years is another thing.

Again, we're not talking about a poorly performing QB who you hope will develop into his body. We're talking about a QB who played very well in the NFL last year who makes some inexperienced mistakes that you hope he'll develop out of. It's not like you're talking about Byron Leftwich here.

His leadership. His work ethic. His ability to handle the big stage. And yes, some basic understanding of his ability to operate in an NFL offense. These aren't questions you had to answer.

He was absolutely the safer play. I agree that he has less upside. But there isn't a doubt in my mind that he had a lot less downside than Sanchez going into the draft. You may argue that it was too safe of a play. But not on the downside potential.

OnTheWarpath58
09-21-2009, 08:16 PM
so on the other teams it was someone else's fault but on ours it was all on cassel, got it.


now THAT is the same situation and hypocrisy

Who said it was all on Cassel, you fucking mouthbreather?

Only in your Simple Jack mind could you blame a QB for not leading a game-winning drive when he didn't touch the ball after the opponent took the lead.

And I dare you to find a single post of mine where I lay the blame of the loss entirely at the feet of Cassel.

Do us all a favor, and don't come back until you find one.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2009, 08:17 PM
Sanchez is more NFL ready than Stafford is why he looks better right now.

The OL and defense have nothing to do with it? When a young QB is behind by 14+ points they are going to be forced to throw and will throw picks.

JASONSAUTO
09-21-2009, 08:20 PM
Who said it was all on Cassel, you fucking mouthbreather?

Only in your Simple Jack mind could you blame a QB for not leading a game-winning drive when he didn't touch the ball after the opponent took the lead.

And I dare you to find a single post of mine where I lay the blame of the loss entirely at the feet of Cassel.

Do us all a favor, and don't come back until you find one.

you fucking jackass, people are ALL OVER THIS FUCKING BOARD screaming about how cassel isnt this isnt that and sucks. people have blamed him for the loss over and over. . why dont you do everyone a favor and kill yourself.


and which QB didnt touch the ball? BR? yeah he COULD have scored a td right?

OnTheWarpath58
09-21-2009, 08:26 PM
you fucking jackass, people are ALL OVER THIS FUCKING BOARD screaming about how cassel isnt this isnt that and sucks. people have blamed him for the loss over and over. i NEVER blamed the qb. why dont you do everyone a favor and kill yourself

You quoted MY post you fucking window licker, where I pointed out that Cassel gained 6 yards and went 4-and-out.

How about quoting the people that are "screaming" and taking it up with them, instead of implying (per your usual) that I said something I didn't say?

And the point remains - if you think anyone is being a hypocrite by holding a QB that didn't touch the ball after the opponent took the lead to a different standard than the one that did, with all 3 of his time outs at his disposal, then you deserve getting called out, because that's fucking ridiculous.

Now, how about rounding up some posts where people are saying that Cassel is the only reason we lost on Sunday.

They are "ALL OVER THIS FUCKING BOARD" so they shouldn't be to hard to find.

Run along, now.

JASONSAUTO
09-21-2009, 08:29 PM
You quoted MY post you fucking window licker, where I pointed out that Cassel gained 6 yards and went 4-and-out.

How about quoting the people that are "screaming" and taking it up with them, instead of implying (per your usual) that I said something I didn't say?

And the point remains - if you think anyone is being a hypocrite by holding a QB that didn't touch the ball after the opponent took the lead to a different standard than the one that did, with all 3 of his time outs at his disposal, then you deserve getting called out, because that's fucking ridiculous.

you post just happened to be the one i quoted. who fucking cares douchebag? i wasnt implying ANYTHING except the fact that what people are saying IS hypocritical, UNLIKE what you were saying earlier about herm/haley THAT WAS WHY I QUOTED YOU, idiot. herm did it continually, haley has had it happen ONCE. thats why that situation isnt hypocritical. i was trying to show what a hypocritical statement actually is

KCDC
09-21-2009, 08:29 PM
If Cassel is another Trent Green, I'm fine with that. Trent never could win the playoff games because the defense allowed the opponents to score every drive and Trent's offense could score only 4 out of 5 times. Pendergast decided to take a page out of Greg Robinson's "read and react" playbook, which is a soft zone and let the opponent score in six plays.

Yet, Cassel played a sub-par game compared to the great things expected of him. Let's look to see how he does in the next seven games. Sanchez is off to a great start. Let's see what the next seven games holds for him too.

JASONSAUTO
09-21-2009, 08:30 PM
Run along, now.

you know what douchebag i'm just about tired of you trying to tell me what to do. why dont you make me not come around anymore. its easy, figure out how. punk

OnTheWarpath58
09-21-2009, 08:34 PM
you post just happened to be the one i quoted. who fucking cares douchebag? i wasnt implying ANYTHING except the fact that what people are saying IS hypocritical, UNLIKE what you were saying earlier about herm/haley THAT WAS WHY I QUOTED YOU, idiot. herm did it continually, haley has had it happen ONCE. thats why that situation isnt hypocritical. i was trying to show what a hypocritical statement actually is

Terri Schiavo called, she'd like her brain back.

That March-of-Dimes laced tirade above sums up why people think you're a fucking dipshit.

The "ah, its just the internet" defense. You feel you can continually go around claiming people said things they didn't say and it's OK because it's a message board.

Stay classy, auto mechanic.

OnTheWarpath58
09-21-2009, 08:36 PM
you know what douchebag i'm just about tired of you trying to tell me what to do. why dont you make me not come around anymore. its easy, figure out how. punk

Coming from the guy that prides himself on defaming people, that's fucking rich.

MGRS13
09-21-2009, 08:37 PM
If Cassel is another Trent Green, I'm fine with that. Trent never could win the playoff games because the defense allowed the opponents to score every drive and Trent's offense could score only 4 out of 5 times. Pendergast decided to take a page out of Greg Robinson's "read and react" playbook, which is a soft zone and let the opponent score in six plays.

Yet, Cassel played a sub-par game compared to the great things expected of him. Let's look to see how he does in the next seven games. Sanchez is off to a great start. Let's see what the next seven games holds for him too.

Wow we are beat down. Were hoping for another trent green? Why don't we shoot for the stars and root for a Romo? Christ this is just awful. I didn't start this thread to kill Cassel if some of you who have posted in this thread would have read the whole post you will hve noticed I praised him for doing some things well yesterday I was just saying he's not a cornerstone for an organization. Of course with people saying things like I'm fine with another green it just shows how bad of a team and fan base we have become. Yea lets hope for another Green nothing like setting your goals at the glorious middle.

JASONSAUTO
09-21-2009, 08:39 PM
Terri Schiavo called, she'd like her brain back.

That March-of-Dimes laced tirade above sums up why people think you're a fucking dipshit.

The "ah, its just the internet" defense. You feel you can continually go around claiming people said things they didn't say and it's OK because it's a message board.

Stay classy, auto mechanic.

what did i claim you said? nothing. again i quoted your post to show you what hypocrisy is. what is going on in this thread is hypocrisy. brady, BR, who by the way could have scored his team a td, AND rivers all lost yesterday when they could have pulled out a win. none of them are getting the "so and so isnt a franchise qb" treatment. now you say that the herm/haley stuff is hypocritical. i say its not due to the fact they are different situations. which i have already outlined for you.


stay classy douchebag.


and i would tell you what a bitch you are right to your fucking face also. i'm as real as it gets. internet or not

JASONSAUTO
09-21-2009, 08:40 PM
Coming from the guy that prides himself on defaming people, that's fucking rich.

why its the truth. you can find out anytime you want. i always love to meet a chiefs fan

milkman
09-21-2009, 08:43 PM
Wow we are beat down. Were hoping for another trent green? Why don't we shoot for the stars and root for a Romo? Christ this is just awful. I didn't start this thread to kill Cassel if some of you who have posted in this thread would have read the whole post you will hve noticed I praised him for doing some things well yesterday I was just saying he's not a cornerstone for an organization. Of course with people saying things like I'm fine with another green it just shows how bad of a team and fan base we have become. Yea lets hope for another Green nothing like setting your goals at the glorious middle.

The biggest issue that most have with your original post is the fact that you have made a blanket statement based on one game.


He did a shitty job in the last possesion of the first half, and a shitty job in the last possesion of the game.

However, to summarily dismiss any chance that he'll ever develop into franchise QB, the kind that can lead a team to crucial game winning drives based simply on one game in a new system with a new team in his first game is premature at best.

It was highly frustrating and disappointing.

However, even the best QBs have failed at times.

OnTheWarpath58
09-21-2009, 08:46 PM
what did i claim you said? nothing. again i quoted your post to show you what hypocrisy is. what is going on in this thread is hypocrisy. brady, BR, who by the way could have scored his team a td, AND rivers all lost yesterday when they could have pulled out a win. none of them are getting the "so and so isnt a franchise qb" treatment. now you say that the herm/haley stuff is hypocritical. i say its not due to the fact they are different situations. which i have already outlined for you.


stay classy douchebag.


and i would tell you what a bitch you are right to your fucking face also. i'm as real as it gets. internet or not

How is Haley and Herm different situations? They made the EXACT same mistakes.

The exact same mistakes that were made routinely in 2007 and 2008 were made again on Sunday, with a new HC, and 30 new, hand-picked players.

In 2007/2008, EVERY mistake was HERM'S fault.

Seeing those same things happen and giving Haley a pass is a double standard, plain and simple. If the execution of the players fall under the responsibility of the HC in 2007/2008, then why not in 2009?

The guy isn't new to the NFL. Both had talent deficient rosters.

Just be honest - Haley gets a pass because no one wants to admit that maybe, just maybe, Herm WASN'T to blame for everything.

Because it sure would make a LOT of people look really fucking stupid otherwise. So they give Haley a pass.

Sorry if you can't handle the truth.

And for the eleventy billionth time, I'm not saying Haley is a bad coach, or is in Herm territory. I'm saying that he's getting an unwarranted pass by the same people that bashed Herm Edwards for making the same so-called mistakes.

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 08:46 PM
The biggest issue that most have with your original post is the fact that you have made a blanket statement based on one game.


He did a shitty job in the last possesion of the first half, and a shitty job in the last possesion of the game.

However, to summarily dismiss any chance that he'll ever develop into franchise QB, the kind that can lead a team to crucial game winning drives based simply on one game in a new system with a new team in his first game is premature at best.

It was highly frustrating and disappointing.

However, even the best QBs have failed at times.

Exactly.

See Jay Cutler.

Lots of stupid mistakes. I don't care about mistakes. I'll be pissed if he's making these same mistakes 5 weeks from now.

MGRS13
09-21-2009, 08:52 PM
The biggest issue that most have with your original post is the fact that you have made a blanket statement based on one game.


He did a shitty job in the last possesion of the first half, and a shitty job in the last possesion of the game.

However, to summarily dismiss any chance that he'll ever develop into franchise QB, the kind that can lead a team to crucial game winning drives based simply on one game in a new system with a new team in his first game is premature at best.

It was highly frustrating and disappointing.

However, even the best QBs have failed at times.
Oh I understand where most of the guys/gals on here are coming from. My point was the end of the game if you would have put Cassel/Croyle/Thigpen out there the same thing would have happened. Now I don't think any one would argue that Croyle or Thigpen are a franchise guy and yet when we get the same thing in crunch time out of Cassel it doesn't allow me to judge him as anything more then just another guy.... course this is all just my opinion I would LOVE and I mean LOVE to be wrong about the guy.

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 08:53 PM
How is Haley and Herm different situations?

The exact same mistakes that were made routinely in 2007 and 2008 were made again on Sunday, with a new HC, and 30 new, hand-picked players.

In 2007/2008, EVERY mistake was HERM'S fault.

Seeing those same things happen and giving Haley a pass is a double standard, plain and simple. If the execution of the players fall under the responsibility of the HC in 2007/2008, then why not in 2009?

The guy isn't new to the NFL. Both had talent deficient rosters.

Just be honest - Haley gets a pass because no one wants to admit that maybe, just maybe, Herm WASN'T to blame for everything.

Because it sure would make a LOT of people look really ****ing stupid otherwise. So they give Haley a pass.

Sorry if you can't handle the truth.

And for the eleventy billionth time, I'm not saying Haley is a bad coach, or is in Herm territory. I'm saying that he's getting an unwarranted pass by the same people that bashed Herm Edwards for making the same so-called mistakes.

I never thought I'd see the day when you or anyone said this.

I agree to a small extent. KC fans have a weird tendency to put 100% of the blame on some people, and excuse 100% of others.

Haley's problem is a little of both. His playcalling was miles ahead of Herm's. His players play harder. But Haley made stupid mistakes. HIs players lost focus at the wrong times. And a lot of the players made dumb mistakes because they were never that good in the first place. Blame goes all around, and Haley definitely deserves his fair share.

But like Cassel, it frustrates me, but he's a new coach and I hope he'll learn from it. This is the first major litmus test for Haley. Hopefully he can put his ego aside and admit he made some mistakes.

JASONSAUTO
09-21-2009, 08:55 PM
How is Haley and Herm different situations? They made the EXACT same mistakes.

The exact same mistakes that were made routinely in 2007 and 2008 were made again on Sunday, with a new HC, and 30 new, hand-picked players.

In 2007/2008, EVERY mistake was HERM'S fault.

Seeing those same things happen and giving Haley a pass is a double standard, plain and simple. If the execution of the players fall under the responsibility of the HC in 2007/2008, then why not in 2009?

The guy isn't new to the NFL. Both had talent deficient rosters.

Just be honest - Haley gets a pass because no one wants to admit that maybe, just maybe, Herm WASN'T to blame for everything.

Because it sure would make a LOT of people look really fucking stupid otherwise. So they give Haley a pass.

Sorry if you can't handle the truth.

And for the eleventy billionth time, I'm not saying Haley is a bad coach, or is in Herm territory. I'm saying that he's getting an unwarranted pass by the same people that bashed Herm Edwards for making the same so-called mistakes.

Listen, there is a difference between the 2, 7 years. herm's teams did the SAME things for all 7 of his years as a HC, in NY and still in KC. THEN herm threw his players under the bus all the while not doing a damn thing, seemingly to us, to CHANGE that culture of fucking up. now the same types of things happened in haley's 2nd GAME WITH some of the supporting cast that was taught so well by herm how to fuck up a crowbar in a sandpile. IF haley's team CONTINUALLY pulls that shit then yeah he's to blame. but as of right now we dont know that to be he case.

Different situations.

simply put: herm proved time and time again that was how his team played, most of us knew that BEFORE he came here.


Haley hasnt shown us in his past stops that he or his teams are prone to that
IMO thats why he gets a pass FOR NOW.

JASONSAUTO
09-21-2009, 08:56 PM
Oh I understand where most of the guys/gals on here are coming from. My point was the end of the game if you would have put Cassel/Croyle/Thigpen out there the same thing would have happened. Now I don't think any one would argue that Croyle or Thigpen are a franchise guy and yet when we get the same thing in crunch time out of Cassel it doesn't allow me to judge him as anything more then just another guy.... course this is all just my opinion I would LOVE and I mean LOVE to be wrong about the guy.

to be fair cassel DID lead a drive to put us up with 2 left, did thigpen or croyle do that?

MGRS13
09-21-2009, 08:59 PM
to be fair cassel DID lead a drive to put us up with 2 left, did thigpen or croyle do that?

eh Croyle took us to a tie game with two left the week before then came out with a chance to drive to tie it up again and did basically what Cassel did yesterday which is sorta the point of the whole thread.

Pioli Zombie
09-21-2009, 09:02 PM
this meltdown is hilarious. Haley sucks. Cassel sucks. Pioli sucks. The draft sucked. The new regime is a failure.

Priceless.
Posted via Mobile Device

Pioli Zombie
09-21-2009, 09:04 PM
Some guy in our fantasy league picked up Croyle last week and started him yesterday. 0 points. Classic fail.
Posted via Mobile Device

Skip Towne
09-21-2009, 09:05 PM
this meltdown is hilarious. Haley sucks. Cassel sucks. Pioli sucks. The draft sucked. The new regime is a failure.

Priceless.
Posted via Mobile Device

YOU suck, punk

milkman
09-21-2009, 09:18 PM
Oh I understand where most of the guys/gals on here are coming from. My point was the end of the game if you would have put Cassel/Croyle/Thigpen out there the same thing would have happened. Now I don't think any one would argue that Croyle or Thigpen are a franchise guy and yet when we get the same thing in crunch time out of Cassel it doesn't allow me to judge him as anything more then just another guy.... course this is all just my opinion I would LOVE and I mean LOVE to be wrong about the guy.

Quite frankly, I'm not dismissing Croyle's talent, nor his ability to make plays based on that one game.

However, in watching Croyle in the few opportunities we've had, he plays timid, and that is a huge concern.

Cassel did show some ability last year to make huge plays in crucial situations, so I'm not ready to dismiss him on the basis of this single game.

He does, however, have to step up and make better decisions, and make plays with this team to give us any hope that last year wasn't just a fluke of luck and surrounding talent.

Pioli Zombie
09-21-2009, 09:19 PM
YOU suck, punk
Well that was nice, Brother Grim.
Posted via Mobile Device

Pasta Giant Meatball
09-21-2009, 09:28 PM
this meltdown is hilarious. Haley sucks. Cassel sucks. Pioli sucks. The draft sucked. The new regime is a failure.

Priceless.
Posted via Mobile Device

Over and over like a broken record.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2009, 09:35 PM
Having little experience is one thing.
Having the intangibles that Pioli noticed every day in practice for nearly 5 years is another thing.

Again, we're not talking about a poorly performing QB who you hope will develop into his body. We're talking about a QB who played very well in the NFL last year who makes some inexperienced mistakes that you hope he'll develop out of. It's not like you're talking about Byron Leftwich here.

His leadership. His work ethic. His ability to handle the big stage. And yes, some basic understanding of his ability to operate in an NFL offense. These aren't questions you had to answer.

He was absolutely the safer play. I agree that he has less upside. But there isn't a doubt in my mind that he had a lot less downside than Sanchez going into the draft. You may argue that it was too safe of a play. But not on the downside potential.

People who make decisions based upon fear never succeed.

Do you think Bill Belichick went with Brady over a healthy Bledsoe because Brady's floor was lower? Because sure as shit is brown, he didn't know that. Bledsoe was an established, known commodity.

And Cassel is still relatively an unknown. All we know is that he's worth probably 3-5 fewer wins per season than Tom Brady.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2009, 09:38 PM
so we could keep him for two years and give him 28 million, trade him, OR sign him to a long term contract and guarantee him......



28 million.



yep fuck that guy pioli, he's stupid

No.

We could:

Let him play for his job for a year, since supposedly that's what everyone else does for the "Right 53". If he earns that contract, then you give it to him. If he doesn't, then you can eat the money the next year, and chuck his ass overboard for a new QB and be done with the experiment after two years. Or, you could trade him if he establishes value, but not near the franchise tender, in your opinion, to a team desperate for a QB to put them over the top.

Rather than committing money after you've seen how he reacts to adversity and a lack of elite talent, and not hamstringing yourself for several years, we went all in and pot committed ourselves to him for 5.

That's called fucktardation.

MGRS13
09-21-2009, 10:20 PM
Don't look now but there is a franchise QB on TV right now proving my point.

MGRS13
09-21-2009, 10:21 PM
Don't look now but there is a franchise QB on TV right now proving my point.

I've probably just cursed the colts. there is 3 mins left.

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 10:22 PM
Nobody said he'd be a guy who can hit the ground running. Why would the Chiefs care about that, in a year where they knew they were rebuilding?

He is inexperienced. And inexperienced QBs are going to make mistakes. Especially against a very good pass offense like Oakland's. Let's not pretend the guy's Kurt Warner. Even Warner didn't exactly hit the ground running in his first go-around in Arizona, did he.

Wait a merry fucking minute; this was the main argument from the get-go regarding why Cassel was the better QB.
LOTS of people said this.

Of course, lots of people should go out back to the tool shed and smash their testicles with a ball-peen hammer for the betterment of humanity.

Micjones
09-21-2009, 11:41 PM
Everybody sucks. Everything and everyone Chiefs sucks. I got it.

Basically.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 11:45 PM
People who make decisions based upon fear never succeed.

Do you think Bill Belichick went with Brady over a healthy Bledsoe because Brady's floor was lower? Because sure as shit is brown, he didn't know that. Bledsoe was an established, known commodity.

And Cassel is still relatively an unknown. All we know is that he's worth probably 3-5 fewer wins per season than Tom Brady.

I don't know if it's a good or a bad decision. I think it's way, way, way too soon to say it was bad, though. It was a safer play. Definitely. But it's not nearly as bad as you make it sound. It's a safe play with a lot of upside. It's not like trading for Jeff Garcia or Shaun Hill, two productive players who are severely limited by their physical abilities and have virtually no upside.

Bellichick went with Brady because Bledsoe was injured.

And Cassel is an unknown, but not nearly as unknown as you suggest. It seems pretty unfair that the benchmark you hold him to in his first season as a pro is arguably the best QB of our generation. Or the fact that an 11-win season isn't good enough. Or the fact that this same team is now 0-2 to start the 2010 season.

I think we're all complaining for the sake of complaining. There's no reason why Cassel can't turn out better than Sanchez. And I certainly think it's going to take more than 1 game for us to make that decision.

chiefzilla1501
09-21-2009, 11:47 PM
Wait a merry ****ing minute; this was the main argument from the get-go regarding why Cassel was the better QB.
LOTS of people said this.

Of course, lots of people should go out back to the tool shed and smash their testicles with a ball-peen hammer for the betterment of humanity.

Read before you write.

I've explained this several times already.

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 11:50 PM
Read before you write.

I've explained this several times already.

That wasn't necessarily directed toward you.:D

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 11:53 PM
Basically.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

They've lost 25 games out of the last 27.

Are you somehow denying that they don't?

Laugh your ass off, Funnyman.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 11:53 PM
Everybody sucks. Everything and everyone Chiefs sucks. I got it.

25 losses out of the past 27.

Yay! They're awesome!

Raised On Riots
09-21-2009, 11:57 PM
25 losses out of the past 27.

Yay! They're awesome!

WOOT!LMAO

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