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View Full Version : General Politics Really??? No One Defending Obama on a Poland Thread?


KCWolfman
09-22-2009, 08:51 AM
http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/49178

Maybe I missed the thread on it already.

Why are we interested in getting on Russia's good side? Haven't they illegally moved into Georgia?

Why is it Russia's good side if we open the doors to Poland? Are they planning on 1940s expansionism again?

Why did President Obama pick the 70th anniversary of the invasion of Poland to announce his intentions on breaking our country's word? Is it to rub more salt in the wound? Or was he just too stupid to know the date?

HonestChieffan
09-22-2009, 08:56 AM
Putin can answer all of that. He is busy today, Russia has announced they are still planing to put missels on the Polish Border.

KCWolfman
09-22-2009, 09:01 AM
Putin can answer all of that. He is busy today, Russia has announced they are still planing to put missels on the Polish Border.

Hell, they will be placing them within the borders against the Czech Republic within 3 years.

This was a pathetic international decision - one of the worst in the last 20 years.

HonestChieffan
09-22-2009, 09:30 AM
well its very bad I agree but he has plenty of time to do worse. Dont give up yet.

dirk digler
09-22-2009, 09:40 AM
Hey very nice to see you back Russ! Are you going to stay longer this time?

And for the record I defended Obama on this because it was the military that made the analysis on this and unless people think they are stupid it is probably a good idea. Also from what I understand they will be able to deploy these missiles by 2011 compared to 2017 if they were to go to Poland.

KCWolfman
09-22-2009, 09:45 AM
Hey very nice to see you back Russ! Are you going to stay longer this time?

And for the record I defended Obama on this because it was the military that made the analysis on this and unless people think they are stupid it is probably a good idea. Also from what I understand they will be able to deploy these missiles by 2011 compared to 2017 if they were to go to Poland.

Dunno, the winds of change.....

I like the new team, I like the new outlook of this venue, and I like most of the old crew such as yourself and Tim are still here.

Probably so.

BucEyedPea
09-22-2009, 10:02 AM
Oh brothah another Russo-phobe!

Been there, done that.-------------------->http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=214326

Obama stops building anti-missile weapons in Eastern Europe, and Russia responds (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26093407-2703,00.html)by dismantling its missiles.

dirk digler
09-22-2009, 10:09 AM
Dunno, the winds of change.....

I like the new team, I like the new outlook of this venue, and I like most of the old crew such as yourself and Tim are still here.

Probably so.

I hope so. I always enjoyed your posts though I don't know if this place can take another conservative. :D

KCWolfman
09-22-2009, 10:34 AM
Oh brothah another Russo-phobe!

Been there, done that.-------------------->http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=214326

Russophobe?

Well some things never change.

So how do you explain Russia moving into Georgia? Am I overreacting on that as well?

KCWolfman
09-22-2009, 10:42 AM
Oh brothah another Russo-phobe!

Been there, done that.-------------------->http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=214326

I dunno, we are still getting mixed signals

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2009-09/22/content_8720719.htm

BucEyedPea
09-22-2009, 10:59 AM
Russophobe?

Well some things never change.

So how do you explain Russia moving into Georgia? Am I overreacting on that as well?

Yes you are. But I don't blame you with our press and the shift of conservative press to the left. I blame the information being put out.

Russia is not revanchist as being reported. It's fear mongering by certain factions. It's designed to create hysteria. Hence the phobe comment.
But I apologize for it.

patteeu
09-22-2009, 11:10 AM
Hell, they will be placing them within the borders against the Czech Republic within 3 years.

This was a pathetic international decision - one of the worst in the last 20 years.

Obama has been horrible on foreign policy. Just one disasterous misstep after another. :shake:

Ron Paul might have even been better at foreign policy than this guy.

HonestChieffan
09-22-2009, 11:13 AM
But I apologize for it.


Wow, you are on your good behavior today.

Taco John
09-22-2009, 11:35 AM
So how do you explain Russia moving into Georgia? Am I overreacting on that as well?


Wasn't Russia responding to an attack by the Georgians? They reacted like we'd expect Isreal to react, no? Respond to the thread and militarily occupy the land from which the attack came.

I'm no big fan of Russia - I don't trust Putin as far as I can be thrown by him - but if Mexico attacked us, we would definitely be justified in occupying the land where they launched the attack, at least for a period of time, no?

KCWolfman
09-22-2009, 11:36 AM
Wasn't Russia responding to an attack by the Georgians? They reacted like we'd expect Isreal to react, no? Respond to the thread and militarily occupy the land from which the attack came.

I'm no big fan of Russia - I don't trust Putin as far as I can be thrown by him - but if Mexico attacked us, we would definitely be justified in occupying the land where they launched the attack, at least for a period of time, no?

I reposted response from another thread.
Georgia didn't invade. I agree they shot missiles into Ossetia that were unwarranted but within 5 days, small exploratory groups were expelled. During those 5 days, the Ossetians (HEAVILY backed by Russian arms AND troops) illegally occupied the Georgia cities of Poti and Gori. The UN negotiated mediation and Russia, er I mean Ossetia left Georgia excluding checkpoints in Poti, Perevi, and Senaki.

Russia, not Ossetia, has been increasing troops in Abkhazia over the last 2 years, unabated. Ossetia sent in spy planes and gave the footage to the BBC showing heavy military buildup in Abkhazia. It was ignored by most, as Russia is the big voice in the UN.

While Georgia was an initial aggressor and sent missiles willy nilly during a regime changeover, they saw the err of their ways. They paid for it with Russian occupation mandated by the UN. Talk about putting the Rat in charge of the Cheese.
Russia knows it will not survive as it is now over the next century, especially with China looming on SuperPower status.

Taco John
09-22-2009, 11:36 AM
Yes, here it is. The Georgians attacked after being warned by the US not to. (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/47631.html)

Taco John
09-22-2009, 11:42 AM
I reposted response from another thread.
Georgia didn't invade. I agree they shot missiles into Ossetia that were unwarranted but within 5 days, small exploratory groups were expelled. During those 5 days, the Ossetians (HEAVILY backed by Russian arms AND troops) illegally occupied the Georgia cities of Poti and Gori. The UN negotiated mediation and Russia, er I mean Ossetia left Georgia excluding checkpoints in Poti, Perevi, and Senaki.

Russia, not Ossetia, has been increasing troops in Abkhazia over the last 2 years, unabated. Ossetia sent in spy planes and gave the footage to the BBC showing heavy military buildup in Abkhazia. It was ignored by most, as Russia is the big voice in the UN.

While Georgia was an initial aggressor and sent missiles willy nilly during a regime changeover, they saw the err of their ways. They paid for it with Russian occupation mandated by the UN. Talk about putting the Rat in charge of the Cheese.
Russia knows it will not survive as it is now over the next century, especially with China looming on SuperPower status.


They may not have invaded, but they did launch missles. It seems that given that, the actions of Russia were reasonable and justifiable. I'd wager we'd react the same way if a missle attack were launched on us from Cuba. We'd occupy that country for the next hundred years at least, don't you think?

It would be one thing if they marched in without provocation. But missles were fired at them. What else are they going to do?

Taco John
09-22-2009, 11:46 AM
By the way... You called the Russian invasion of Georgia illegal (despite the fact that Russia was retaliating to a clear and present danger).

By whose standards are you making that judgement? I'm curious what ruling body you are giving Russia's national security decisions to, and if you're willing to give the United States national security decisions to said ruling body as well. I'm pretty sure that you're not talking about the United Nations. I can't imagine that you've got any respect for their "authority."

KCWolfman
09-22-2009, 11:48 AM
They may not have invaded, but they did launch missles. It seems that given that, the actions of Russia were reasonable and justifiable. I'd wager we'd react the same way if a missle attack were launched on us from Cuba. We'd occupy that country for the next hundred years at least, don't you think?

It would be one thing if they marched in without provocation. But missles were fired at them. What else are they going to do?

Reasonable???

You realize they went in AFTER they got the ruling they wanted from the UN and agreed for peace with Georgia? AFTER they occupied Georgian cities?

They did march in without provocation. They used the Ossetia instance to build their masses on another nation's border. They were busted doing so, and Georgia was ignored when they reported the actions.

Your analogy is nothing near what actually occurred. I would say you are comparing apples to oranges, but it is more akin to comparing apples to quinine - both have nothing in common whatsoever.

KCWolfman
09-22-2009, 11:49 AM
By the way... You called the Russian invasion of Georgia illegal (despite the fact that Russia was retaliating to a clear and present danger).

By whose standards are you making that judgement? I'm curious what ruling body you are giving Russia's national security decisions to, and if you're willing to give the United States national security decisions to said ruling body as well. I'm pretty sure that you're not talking about the United Nations. I can't imagine that you've got any respect for their "authority."

Russia retaliating for Ossetian and Georgian actions?

There was no danger to Russia at all. Where are you getting your information>?

Taco John
09-22-2009, 12:02 PM
The US Press

Not a great source

I'm still nonplussed. You weren't this excited when we illegally invaded Iraq. I don't see the downside of not having to pay for a missle shield to protect a bunch of european socialists who aren't willing to pay for their own national security. Meanwhile, our own government is invading the private sector. I'm much more concerned about that.

KCWolfman
09-22-2009, 12:10 PM
The US Press

Not a great source

I'm still nonplussed. You weren't this excited when we illegally invaded Iraq. I don't see the downside of not having to pay for a missle shield to protect a bunch of european socialists who aren't willing to pay for their own national security. Meanwhile, our own government is invading the private sector. I'm much more concerned about that.

If I were you I would avoid sources that don't actually report what is going on, ala Charlie Gibson.

Taco John
09-22-2009, 12:14 PM
The only thing I watch on television is Football, Baseball, Man vs. Wild, and whatever cartoon I'm being roped into this time. Lately that's been Wonder Pets.

Everything else I get through Internet consumption.

KCWolfman
09-22-2009, 12:22 PM
The only thing I watch on television is Football, Baseball, Man vs. Wild, and whatever cartoon I'm being roped into this time. Lately that's been Wonder Pets.

Everything else I get through Internet consumption.

Okay, but whatever sourced you used to state Russia marched in to protect itself is grossly inaccurate. I would recommend alternate sources.

Georgia attempted to take rule over lands it had no rights to years ago. Russia used that instance to occupy Georgia even though Russia was not even involved in the original altercation - That is where your original analogy is true, and ends.

Russia built up mass armies and heavy arsenal on another of Georgia's borders after securing the Ossetian border. They were reported with proof positive of the amassed armaments and ignored for it.

I don't see Putin as a mustache twirling madman with the cliched evil laugh, however, I do see Russia wanting, no NEEDING, expansionism to compete with China. Georgia is that first step. And as long as Iran supplies and purchases with Beijing and Moscow, Russia is in competition - and a losing one at that. They need more power to secure their holdings in the Middle East over the next 100 years. Georgia is a great start.

Brock
09-22-2009, 12:27 PM
How does occupying Georgia, if that's what they're doing, help Russia?

Amnorix
09-22-2009, 12:44 PM
Hark!!! An intelligent conservative!

Welcome back. :D I hope you stick around. It's much easier being a back-bencher throwing peanuts than defending the latest stupidity of the day/week/month.

KCWolfman
09-22-2009, 12:45 PM
Hark!!! An intelligent conservative!

Welcome back. :D I hope you stick around. It's much easier being a back-bencher throwing peanuts than defending the latest stupidity of the day/week/month.

Thanks Amno. Good to see you too

KILLER_CLOWN
09-22-2009, 03:32 PM
Sakashvilli eats his tie! LMAO

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