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Raptor
09-24-2009, 03:22 PM
OL blow assignments ALL THE TIME, and 300+ pound tackles come down on the QB ALL THE TIME.

Yet QB's don't get injured by that ALL THE TIME. QB's not named Brodie Croyle anyway...

Again, it didn't take long for it to happen to Cassel here. He didn't even make it to the regular season. I don't see it as something I would blame him for anymore than Croyle or Green, or Huard or anybody else in KC that was not protected by an M1 tank behind this line.

I completely understand your point. I just don't buy in to the fact that an injured person can be held accountable for that unless they are doing something stupid and brought it on themselves.

htismaqe
09-24-2009, 03:28 PM
Again, it didn't take long for it to happen to Cassel here. He didn't even make it to the regular season. I don't see it as something I would blame him for anymore than Croyle or Green, or Huard or anybody else in KC that was not protected by an M1 tank behind this line.

Cassel was sacked 47 times last season without any injuries. That's why he gets the benefit of the doubt, even with his preseason injury. And again, it's not just THIS line. Croyle has been injured behind EVERY LINE HE'S EVER PLAYED BEHIND.

I completely understand your point. I just don't buy in to the fact that an injured person can be held accountable for that unless they are doing something stupid and brought it on themselves.

Hmmm...that's a different point. I'm not necessarily holding him accountable - I'm not sure you can blame somebody for a physical affliction they were basically born with.

However, I can, with a relative degree of certainty, say that Brodie Croyle will never be a starting QB in this league simply because he can't stay healthy. That's not his fault, it's just the way it is.

DaneMcCloud
09-24-2009, 03:34 PM
However, I can, with a relative degree of certainty, say that Brodie Croyle will never be a starting QB in this league simply because he can't stay healthy. That's not his fault, it's just the way it is.

The thing is though that each and every time he's been injured, he's returned to play pretty well.

I don't see how there's any way you can speculate that he'll never be a starting QB, especially if he's either past the injury bug or he plays behind a good offensive line.

Keep in mind, he's only 26. Plenty of successful NFL QB's have been late bloomers.

htismaqe
09-24-2009, 03:40 PM
The thing is though that each and every time he's been injured, he's returned to play pretty well.

I don't see how there's any way you can speculate that he'll never be a starting QB, especially if he's either past the injury bug or he plays behind a good offensive line.

Keep in mind, he's only 26. Plenty of successful NFL QB's have been late bloomers.

Like maybe Matt Cassel? :evil:

In all seriousness, no one can say anything with 100% certainty. However, he's been playing football for nearly half of his life, and he's had more serious injuries than some TEAMS.

The Chiefs aren't in a position to play "what ifs". It's time to move on.

Also, I think we may have a different definition of what constitutes playing well. Brodie Croyle is a guy with a big arm that looks absolutely downright scared to throw downfield. He's HERM, at QB. Maybe he grows out of it, maybe he doesn't. But for me, I've seen enough.

Raptor
09-24-2009, 03:53 PM
Cassel was sacked 47 times last season without any injuries. That's why he gets the benefit of the doubt, even with his preseason injury. And again, it's not just THIS line. Croyle has been injured behind EVERY LINE HE'S EVER PLAYED BEHIND.



Hmmm...that's a different point. I'm not necessarily holding him accountable - I'm not sure you can blame somebody for a physical affliction they were basically born with.



However, I can, with a relative degree of certainty, say that Brodie Croyle will never be a starting QB in this league simply because he can't stay healthy. That's not his fault, it's just the way it is.

Your 1st point - It didn't take that many sacks for Cassel to get injured with the Chiefs. Maybe we're just snake bit
2nd -Agreed.
3rd - Wouldn't argue with you there. The burden is on him to prove otherwise.

keg in kc
09-24-2009, 04:23 PM
The thing is though that each and every time he's been injured, he's returned to play pretty well.

I don't see how there's any way you can speculate that he'll never be a starting QB, especially if he's either past the injury bug or he plays behind a good offensive line.

Keep in mind, he's only 26. Plenty of successful NFL QB's have been late bloomers. I have always liked Croyle but unfortunately he's been hurt too many times in too many ways to not make me think some ancestor pissed of a gypsy.

Chocolate Hog
09-24-2009, 04:25 PM
The thing is though that each and every time he's been injured, he's returned to play pretty well.

I don't see how there's any way you can speculate that he'll never be a starting QB, especially if he's either past the injury bug or he plays behind a good offensive line.

Keep in mind, he's only 26. Plenty of successful NFL QB's have been late bloomers.

I really can't believe you are defending Brodie Croyle, Dane.

HIChief
09-24-2009, 05:32 PM
jwhit has been writing some good stuff lately, granted its stirring the pot type of stuff but he has been spot on. If Croyle wasnt such a walking injury I wouldnt mind seeing a little battle, especially with all of Pioli's Bullshit right 53 player stuff.


AND GET IT OVER WITH. This is THE season to do it.

htismaqe
09-24-2009, 05:35 PM
Your 1st point - It didn't take that many sacks for Cassel to get injured with the Chiefs. Maybe we're just snake bit.

It certainly feels that way sometimes.

Look at it this way - when you're trying to solve a logic equation and you have a common denominator, that common denominator can be eliminated. What's left is the "solvable" portion of the equation.

In this case, the common denominator is the Chiefs and the fact that they've both been injured here. If you eliminate the common denominator, the solvable portion of the "equation" is the sum of all of their experience OTHER THAN here in Kansas City.

That sum of experience shows that Matt Cassel has never had a serious injury anywhere else (that I know of). Conversely, Brodie Croyle has been injured repeatedly, and seriously, throughout high school and college.

It's like buying a Jaguar for $5000. The guy only sold it to you for $5000 because he said it doesn't always start. So you take it home and try to start it and of course it doesn't. The next day it starts, and the next day it doesn't.

After 3 years of the car only starting 50% of the time, are you still going to hope that some day, if you just keep trying to start the car, that it's going to change? Of course not.

Raptor
09-24-2009, 05:50 PM
It certainly feels that way sometimes.

Look at it this way - when you're trying to solve a logic equation and you have a common denominator, that common denominator can be eliminated. What's left is the "solvable" portion of the equation.

In this case, the common denominator is the Chiefs and the fact that they've both been injured here. If you eliminate the common denominator, the solvable portion of the "equation" is the sum of all of their experience OTHER THAN here in Kansas City.

That sum of experience shows that Matt Cassel has never had a serious injury anywhere else (that I know of). Conversely, Brodie Croyle has been injured repeatedly, and seriously, throughout high school and college.

It's like buying a Jaguar for $5000. The guy only sold it to you for $5000 because he said it doesn't always start. So you take it home and try to start it and of course it doesn't. The next day it starts, and the next day it doesn't.

After 3 years of the car only starting 50% of the time, are you still going to hope that some day, if you just keep trying to start the car, that it's going to change? Of course not.

Is this a car being hit by other cars (Defensive Linemen) because they ran a red light (Our Offensive Line) and we have no insurance (Nobody can get open and backs are iffy in protection)?

Sorry, not trying to be sarcastic as this is a good debate. Just Kidding. Trying to throw a little humor into the mix. I couldn't resist:D

WilliamTheIrish
09-24-2009, 06:00 PM
These responses are hilarious.

You guys don't believe Whitlock because you don't want to believe Whitlock.

I'm sorry but that's not a good enough reason to doubt him.

I don't care about the dinner because... I don't care about the dinner.

What I do not believe is this: Bill Maas, the coked out, drunken ass clown heard on the sideline that Haley wanted to start Croyle and that decision was overturned by Pioli.

That's a pretty serious charge and if you make it, as Whitlock has, be a reporter and ask the question at the next coaches PC and get it out there on the table.

I very well could be wrong. It may have happened. But today, in this world, no way do I hitch my wagon to hearsay from Bill Maas' faded star.

chiefzilla1501
09-24-2009, 06:00 PM
Is this a car being hit by other cars (Defensive Linemen) because they ran a red light (Our Offensive Line) and we have no insurance (Nobody can get open and backs are iffy in protection)?

Sorry, not trying to be sarcastic as this is a good debate. Just Kidding. Trying to throw a little humor into the mix. I couldn't resist:D

I think the issue is that the amount of hits Croyle took in a few games is a lot less than the amount of hits an average QB takes behind an average offensive line in a full season. Yes, Croyle has had freak injuries like MCL tears. But he also separated his left shoulder in college. He missed a full season with injury last year within one half of play. And the year before that, he had a mysterious injury after taking a hit.

It's not like it's a surprise to anybody. He has a really thin frame for a QB. It's not bad luck. Three of his injuries have come from taking a hard hit. David Carr had a worse offensive line and he withstood hits without injury for almost five years in Houston. Croyle is never going to be healthy enough to be a consistent starting QB>

kstater
09-24-2009, 06:04 PM
I don't care about the dinner because... I don't care about the dinner.

What I do not believe is this: Bill Maas, the coked out, drunken ass clown heard on the sideline that Haley wanted to start Croyle and that decision was overturned by Pioli.

That's a pretty serious charge and if you make it, as Whitlock has, be a reporter and ask the question at the next coaches PC and get it out there on the table.

I very well could be wrong. It may have happened. But today, in this world, no way do I hitch my wagon to hearsay from Bill Maas' faded star.

Excellent point. And at the same time, you better damn well believe that it wasn't hyperbole.

htismaqe
09-24-2009, 06:13 PM
Is this a car being hit by other cars (Defensive Linemen) because they ran a red light (Our Offensive Line) and we have no insurance (Nobody can get open and backs are iffy in protection)?

Sorry, not trying to be sarcastic as this is a good debate. Just Kidding. Trying to throw a little humor into the mix. I couldn't resist:D

ROFL

It's actually 2 cars - a Cassel-ac and a Br-Audi.

Both of them have run red lights and been hit by other cars multiple times.

However, the Cassel-ac has only been in the shop once while the Br-Audi has spent more time in the shop than it has ON THE ROAD.

:evil:

Raptor
09-24-2009, 06:51 PM
I think the issue is that the amount of hits Croyle took in a few games is a lot less than the amount of hits an average QB takes behind an average offensive line in a full season. Yes, Croyle has had freak injuries like MCL tears. But he also separated his left shoulder in college. He missed a full season with injury last year within one half of play. And the year before that, he had a mysterious injury after taking a hit.

It's not like it's a surprise to anybody. He has a really thin frame for a QB. It's not bad luck. Three of his injuries have come from taking a hard hit. David Carr had a worse offensive line and he withstood hits without injury for almost five years in Houston. Croyle is never going to be healthy enough to be a consistent starting QB>

Not disagreeing with you. His frame is smallish, thus more likely to incur injury. That doesn't mean he can't contribute. Pioli and Haley must see something in him or they would have ridden him out of town on a rail. Lord knows they're not bashful. In fact, Haley actually has had some good things to say about him.

I am not a card carrying member of the "Play Brodie" club, nor am I for Cassel. I just want to see the best player play and contribute to some wins. I only make this argument when people state that he can't play because he's injury prone, then pop off with the name calling (e.g. Brokie Croyle, Brodie Crumble, etc.). While true that he has been injured alot and it's frustrating for the fans, he's not now. Nobody could be more frustrated than Brodie. In fact, I think the guy deserves a lot of credit for fighting back each and every time with no guarantee that he'll start, play or even make the team. I think the guy deserves some kudos for that. It'd be real easy to just say F-it, it's too hard. Yet he doesn't. I think that shows some grit. That's a quality you'd like to see in a leader.

I also think when we're looking at common denominators we can't lose sight of the fact that his pro injuries were under Herm's watch. I am not a Herm basher or supporter, but there is a history there with QB's going down under Herm's watch. New York was a debacle.

Just my humble opinion.

Raptor
09-24-2009, 06:51 PM
ROFL

It's actually 2 cars - a Cassel-ac and a Br-Audi.

Both of them have run red lights and been hit by other cars multiple times.

However, the Cassel-ac has only been in the shop once while the Br-Audi has spent more time in the shop than it has ON THE ROAD.

:evil:

Great comeback.....ROFL

keg in kc
09-24-2009, 07:12 PM
These responses are hilarious.

You guys don't believe Whitlock because you don't want to believe Whitlock.

I'm sorry but that's not a good enough reason to doubt him.How is that any different than believing Whitlock because you want to believe Whitlock?

DaneMcCloud
09-24-2009, 09:43 PM
How is that any different than believing Whitlock because you want to believe Whitlock?

Because he's sports columnist for a major new organiztion (Knight-Ridder).

He's required to have journalistic integrity.

I don't think there's any way in the world Knight-Ridder is going to print lies or fabrications and if they unwittingly did, he'd be fired.

DaneMcCloud
09-24-2009, 09:45 PM
I don't care about the dinner because... I don't care about the dinner.

What I do not believe is this: Bill Maas, the coked out, drunken ass clown heard on the sideline that Haley wanted to start Croyle and that decision was overturned by Pioli.

That's a pretty serious charge and if you make it, as Whitlock has, be a reporter and ask the question at the next coaches PC and get it out there on the table.

I very well could be wrong. It may have happened. But today, in this world, no way do I hitch my wagon to hearsay from Bill Maas' faded star.

Well, IMO, Bill Maas and Jason Whitlock are on the opposite end of the spectrum in regards to credibility.

Chiefnj2
09-24-2009, 10:06 PM
I don't care about the dinner because... I don't care about the dinner.

What I do not believe is this: Bill Maas, the coked out, drunken ass clown heard on the sideline that Haley wanted to start Croyle and that decision was overturned by Pioli.

That's a pretty serious charge and if you make it, as Whitlock has, be a reporter and ask the question at the next coaches PC and get it out there on the table.

I very well could be wrong. It may have happened. But today, in this world, no way do I hitch my wagon to hearsay from Bill Maas' faded star.


I don't believe Maas claimed to have heard that Haley wanted Croyle on the sideline. Maas said he heard Haley tell Cassel "you haven't read a defense all day" and the problem with the call getting in because of the yelling, from the sideline.

The Bad Guy
09-24-2009, 10:06 PM
Because he's sports columnist for a major new organiztion (Knight-Ridder).

He's required to have journalistic integrity.

I don't think there's any way in the world Knight-Ridder is going to print lies or fabrications and if they unwittingly did, he'd be fired.

Sorry, but this is a load of bullshit.

He was also supposed to conduct himself in a professional manner in a press box. He didn't do that. And he writes editorial pieces. There are no fact checkers for editorials. He can write whatever he wants because his columns are taken as opinion pieces. Who is going to call him a liar? It's his word against someone elses. If Knight-Ridder didn't fire him for making a sign that Drew Bledsoe is gay, they aren't firing him for fabricating a story about Scott Pioli.

He can write his opinions. We can have opinions that we think Whitlock is full of shit.

smittysbar
09-24-2009, 10:07 PM
Not disagreeing with you. His frame is smallish, thus more likely to incur injury. That doesn't mean he can't contribute. Pioli and Haley must see something in him or they would have ridden him out of town on a rail. Lord knows they're not bashful. In fact, Haley actually has had some good things to say about him.

I am not a card carrying member of the "Play Brodie" club, nor am I for Cassel. I just want to see the best player play and contribute to some wins. I only make this argument when people state that he can't play because he's injury prone, then pop off with the name calling (e.g. Brokie Croyle, Brodie Crumble, etc.). While true that he has been injured alot and it's frustrating for the fans, he's not now. Nobody could be more frustrated than Brodie. In fact, I think the guy deserves a lot of credit for fighting back each and every time with no guarantee that he'll start, play or even make the team. I think the guy deserves some kudos for that. It'd be real easy to just say F-it, it's too hard. Yet he doesn't. I think that shows some grit. That's a quality you'd like to see in a leader.

I also think when we're looking at common denominators we can't lose sight of the fact that his pro injuries were under Herm's watch. I am not a Herm basher or supporter, but there is a history there with QB's going down under Herm's watch. New York was a debacle.

Just my humble opinion.

Good posts in this thread, hope you stick around for a while :clap:

keg in kc
09-24-2009, 10:14 PM
Because he's sports columnist for a major new organiztion (Knight-Ridder).

He's required to have journalistic integrity.

I don't think there's any way in the world Knight-Ridder is going to print lies or fabrications and if they unwittingly did, he'd be fired.He's writing opinion pieces, not acting as a reporter. I'm sure he can defend anything he says by claiming it's a matter of interpretation, unless he directly misquotes someone. And I've never said he doesn't believe what he's saying. I've only said that I don't. I think he's going nutty with the tinfoil hat conspiracy theories because he's as locked out as everybody else in the media. He apparently can't handle the reality that that's just how the Chiefs do business now, despite the fact that we all knew it was going to be this way the day Pioli was hired. These are football people who aren't here to make friends in the press; they're here to rebuild a franchise and win championships. Their goal is to let the product on the field do the talking for them.

milkman
09-24-2009, 10:44 PM
I remember about 2, maybe 3, years ago or so The Star's Black Jabba was sitting in for Jim Rome. I listen pretty regularly to Rome's show, it's a good listen for entertainment purposes (especially when Jay Mohr is filling in, that guy should have his own gig).

Whitlock takes to the airwaves like the crashing zeppelin he is, and my immediate reaction is oh shit...please don't say Kansas City. I'm ashamed to be in the same general location as this man. In any event, he's not 20 minutes into the show before he's turned the entire show around on him, and explains that he pretty much doesn't care what he has to say or do or write, he's gonna do whatever brings the money in. Said he "stopped caring about that stuff a long time ago." He hasn't been on Rome since to my knowledge, and I thank the Premier Radio Networks or Van Smack for making it that way (if they had any role).

He's more worthless than a turd sandwich.

Jim Rome sucks ass, and Whitlock has been on as a guest or guest host too numerous time to count over th elast two years, and he sucks even more ass than Rome.

Raptor
09-24-2009, 10:45 PM
Good posts in this thread, hope you stick around for a while :clap:

Thanks Brother. Enjoying the dialogue. Been reading for a long time. Just decided to start participating.

smittysbar
09-24-2009, 10:47 PM
Thanks Brother. Enjoying the dialogue. Been reading for a long time. Just decided to start participating.

Keep it up. Not very often we get good n00b posters around here.

Raised On Riots
09-24-2009, 10:47 PM
Jim Rome sucks ass, and Whitlock has been on as a guest or guest host too numerous time to count over th elast two years, and he sucks even more ass than Rome.

No shit. Listening to him is about as awesome as fingernails on a chalk board while chewing tin foil.

chiefsfan1963
09-24-2009, 11:24 PM
Win 2 games? Hell, they could win 2 games with 22 guys off the street....

I will be very excited if they can win 5 games this season. Don't get too cocky about Chiefs easily winning more than 2 games this season. It's not the no brainer that you think it is.

chiefsfan1963
09-24-2009, 11:25 PM
As usual, you're out of your ****ing mind.

How in the hell did your rep turn green?

WTF?

curious how many games you had them winning last year? :rolleyes:

DaneMcCloud
09-25-2009, 02:51 PM
Two, Douchebag.
Posted via Mobile Device

Count Alex's Wins
09-26-2009, 07:41 AM
Two, Douchebag.
Posted via Mobile Device

http://i37.tinypic.com/33yl45c.gif

PS- The idea of you having breakfast and posting this via your iPhone with a grumpy face from the table at IHOP is hilarious. Although you probably have breakfast at some really nice place, not IHOP. There are probably hot celebrity babes in breezy sun dresses there, sipping French lattes and puking up Eggs Benedict in the bathroom.

Or you might be laying in bed, or enjoying a morning shit. Either way, peck peck peck, grumpy face.

htismaqe
09-26-2009, 08:04 AM
Or you might be laying in bed, or enjoying a morning shit. Either way, peck peck peck, grumpy face.

I'm just glad you used the word "or".

There are some in Hollywood that like to lay in bed AND enjoy a morning shit.

soundmind
09-26-2009, 10:00 AM
Because he's sports columnist for a major new organiztion (Knight-Ridder).

He's required to have journalistic integrity.

I don't think there's any way in the world Knight-Ridder is going to print lies or fabrications and if they unwittingly did, he'd be fired.

Wrong.

Print is dying and dying fast, they'll print anything if they think it will spark readership, even for a day. They may not stoop as low as say, the inquirer, but they'll dig pretty deep before they worry right now.

chiefzilla1501
09-26-2009, 10:24 AM
Wrong.

Print is dying and dying fast, they'll print anything if they think it will spark readership, even for a day. They may not stoop as low as say, the inquirer, but they'll dig pretty deep before they worry right now.

The reason they can't outright lie is not because of journalistic integrity. It's because they can be sued if they're lying, especially if the lie was made in an effort to undermine another person. That'd be a real easy thing to track down. The restaurant, I'm sure, could confirm if those three actually sat down to eat.

Saying you don't like Pioli is an opinion. Saying you had dinner with him when you didn't is a lie, and it would never pass. That being said, no idea what was said at the table. Whitlock has a tendency to exaggerate, but frankly, I think there is something to the fact that the new administration might have a bit of an ego.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-12-2011, 04:08 PM
bump for the OP.