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Tribal Warfare
09-23-2009, 01:01 AM
Chiefs’ Cassel can’t count on starting if he doesn’t produce (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1463297.html)
By KENT BABB
The Kansas City Star

Chiefs coach Todd Haley liked some of what Matt Cassel did on Sunday, but there wasn’t enough of it for Haley to say that Cassel will be Kansas City’s starting quarterback for the rest of the season and beyond.

Haley said that, like all other positions, the quarterback job will remain available to the most proficient player — regardless of salary, name or background.

“You’ve got to ultimately do what gives your team the best chance to win,” Haley said Tuesday. “If that means another quarterback being in there other than Matt Cassel, then sign me up.”

Cassel played every snap for the Chiefs in Sunday’s 13-10 loss to Oakland. It was his first game back in the lineup after spraining his left knee in Kansas City’s third preseason game, and Haley said last week that he expected Cassel to show some rust. Cassel completed 24 of 39 passes for 241 yards. He also threw two interceptions and was sacked twice.

Haley said he was encouraged by Cassel’s performance, including the fearless way the quarterback scrambled out of trouble and rushed for 34 yards despite that bad knee.

“I like a lot about this guy,” Haley said.

But there are things that Haley said he likes about backup quarterback Brodie Croyle, too. Haley said that he wants to see both players improve each week and keep the competition between them at more than a simmer. Haley again praised Croyle’s poise in a loss in the regular-season opener at Baltimore, saying that the fourth-year quarterback gave the Chiefs a chance to upset the Ravens by playing a mostly mistake-free contest.

Haley said Tuesday that he doesn’t want any player getting too comfortable. That has been a common theme since the team gathered in July for training camp in River Falls, Wis., and Haley has said often that just because a player starts one day, he won’t necessarily start the next.

Haley has shaken up every other position group, sometimes to deliver messages to perceived starters and other times to get a look at an underused player. He said that was the reason running back Jamaal Charles and tight end Brad Cottam were inactive last Sunday: so the Chiefs could observe running back Dantrell Savage and rookie tight end Jake O’Connell without weakening other positions.

But as Haley tinkered with other positions, the one he left alone was quarterback. Haley didn’t announce Cassel as the starter until late in the preseason, but it was Cassel who took the first-team snaps in training camp and preseason games — and it was Cassel who shouldered the starting quarterback’s other responsibilities, such as a weekly meeting with reporters. It didn’t seem to hurt Cassel’s chances that he signed a long-term contract extension with the Chiefs and that he’ll make a guaranteed $28 million over the deal’s duration.

If Cassel was the one player with bulletproof job security, Haley delivered a message Tuesday that he’ll have to do like everyone else — work hard, be good and play smart — to keep his job.

“It’s a process of trying to get it right,” Haley said. “I just know this from the teams that I’ve been around and the ones I’ve paid attention to.”

He has watched other coaches make the unpopular decision of benching other communities’ preferred quarterbacks. While Haley was with the New York Jets, he watched coach Bill Parcells bench quarterback Glenn Foley, a local favorite, in favor of veteran Vinny Testaverde. The Jets won 12 games that year. Nearly a decade later, when Parcells brought Haley to Dallas, the young assistant again watched Parcells bench a popular quarterback, Drew Bledsoe, for an upstart named Tony Romo after Bledsoe started the 2006 season with three losses in six games. Romo led the Cowboys to the playoffs.

Then last year, while Haley was Arizona’s offensive coordinator, coaches chose veteran Kurt Warner as the starting quarterback despite the fact that Matt Leinart was a former first-round pick with a fat contract. Warner led the Cardinals to the Super Bowl.

“If we don’t go with what our gut tells us at that position,” Haley said, “we wouldn’t have been where we were.”

Haley said Tuesday that, in each of those cases, the head coach had to make a decision based only on instinct and in observing each quarterback’s sharpness — and ignore factors such as contract details and outside criticism.

“When we made that change,” Haley said, “there was a lot of negative feedback and, ‘What are you doing?’ and, ‘What about the future?’ There weren’t too many people saying much when we were in the Super Bowl.”

Haley wasn’t saying Tuesday that the Chiefs might finish this season in the Super Bowl — or even the playoffs. And he wasn’t saying that Cassel won’t finish this season as the Chiefs’ starter, either. He was saying that Cassel had better be on point — or, like so many other positions, Kansas City will turn toward someone who is.

“Our whole goal is to get competition at as many positions as we can, quarterback being one of those,” Haley said. “When there’s somebody pushing you, you have a better chance of being at your best. When you can’t handle that pressure, you’ll probably go by the wayside, and that becomes clear to everybody.”

SNR
09-23-2009, 01:11 AM
CONTROVERSY!!!!!! :whackit:

Tuckdaddy
09-23-2009, 03:46 AM
Scott will not let Matt ride the pine.

Douche Baggins
09-23-2009, 03:48 AM
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Simply Red
09-23-2009, 06:02 AM
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nice non working flash, congrats...

Bane
09-23-2009, 06:06 AM
Uh yeah!!!!!!:Lin:

Fish
09-23-2009, 08:26 AM
Brodie FTW!!!!

Brock
09-23-2009, 08:29 AM
Scott will not let Matt ride the pine.

You've been under Carl Peterson's thumb for too long.

C-Mac
09-23-2009, 08:41 AM
Haley wasn’t saying Tuesday that the Chiefs might finish this season in the Super Bowl — or even the playoffs. And he wasn’t saying that Cassel won’t finish this season as the Chiefs’ starter, either. He was saying that Cassel had better be on point — or, like so many other positions, Kansas City will turn toward someone who is.”

This is all that needed to be written in this article or JWhit's article.

htismaqe
09-23-2009, 08:45 AM
Scott will not let Matt ride the pine.

Scott won't have to even get involved. Brodie Croyle isn't a starting NFL QB and never will be.

splatbass
09-23-2009, 08:56 AM
Scott won't have to even get involved. Brodie Croyle isn't a starting NFL QB and never will be.

In the same interview Haley said that against the Ravens Croyle played like an NFL QB. What do you know that Haley, a former QB coach, doesn't?

That said, this whole thing is a media created QB controversy. Haley never said Cassel was in any danger of being benched, he just said what he has always said, that the player at every position that gives us the best chance to win will start. It just means that Cassel has to play well to keep his job, like every other player on the team.

Fish
09-23-2009, 08:58 AM
In the same interview Haley said that against the Ravens Croyle played like an NFL QB. What do you know that Haley, a former QB coach, doesn't?

That said, this whole thing is a media created QB controversy. Haley never said Cassel was in any danger of being benched, he just said what he has always said, that the player at every position that gives us the best chance to win will start. It just means that Cassel has to play well to keep his job, like every other player on the team.

Actually, Haley is a current QB coach....

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
09-23-2009, 09:02 AM
The headline is a no-brainer.

<b>NO</b> player should think that they're going to play for long if they don't produce.

Again, the media creating something from nothing.

Do they teach reporting or alchemy at j-school these days. Pathetic

splatbass
09-23-2009, 09:24 AM
Actually, Haley is a current QB coach....

Yes, he is. Doesn't change my point.

htismaqe
09-23-2009, 09:41 AM
In the same interview Haley said that against the Ravens Croyle played like an NFL QB. What do you know that Haley, a former QB coach, doesn't?

Haley said in his press conference last week that he was happy that Croyle didn't turn the ball over. Haley knows what Brodie is, make no mistake about it.

L.A. Chieffan
09-23-2009, 09:42 AM
Where do they come up with this shit?

DaneMcCloud
09-23-2009, 11:02 AM
Haley said in his press conference last week that he was happy that Croyle didn't turn the ball over. Haley knows what Brodie is, make no mistake about it.

I don't see how that's even possible.

For much of Brodie Croyle's three plus years in the NFL, he's been unable to play in more than 8 games, let alone participate on the practice field. He's been stuck that entire team behind the worst offensive line in the league.

Giving up on Brodie Croyle would be absolutely ridiculous at this point in time, especially if he can finally beat the injury bug and stay healthy.

The guy has all the talent in the world to become a successful NFL QB.

If his body will allow it.

BigChiefFan
09-23-2009, 11:40 AM
Wow, why is this news? If you've been paying attention, Haley's been saying this all along.

Basically, Haley is trying to light a fire under Cassel, without throwing him under the bus AND keep Brodie fired up about staying competitive and always having a shot. Coach speak 101.

Marcellus
09-23-2009, 11:44 AM
Wow, why is this news? If you've been paying attention, Haley's been saying this all along.

Basically, Haley is trying to light a fire under Cassel, without throwing him under the bus AND keep Brodie fired up about staying competitive and always having a shot. Coach speak 101.

Yup. I don't get how this is a story.

They keep asking questions about the QB situatino over and over trying to get answers to make into a story.

htismaqe
09-23-2009, 11:48 AM
I don't see how that's even possible.

For much of Brodie Croyle's three plus years in the NFL, he's been unable to play in more than 8 games, let alone participate on the practice field. He's been stuck that entire team behind the worst offensive line in the league.

Giving up on Brodie Croyle would be absolutely ridiculous at this point in time, especially if he can finally beat the injury bug and stay healthy.

The guy has all the talent in the world to become a successful NFL QB.

If his body will allow it.

How in the hell is his body going to allow it? He's been hurt multiple times, SERIOUSLY, at every level he's played.

I'm not suggesting we give up on him, but making him a starter because you don't have any patience is ridiculous.

ChiefsCountry
09-23-2009, 11:53 AM
You've been under Carl Peterson's thumb for too long.

Pioli's tenure is going to be linked to Cassel unless a Brady type thing happens. You can bet the farm knowing the ego that Belicheat's clones have he wont allow Cassel not to be it.

Brock
09-23-2009, 12:05 PM
Pioli's tenure is going to be linked to Cassel unless a Brady type thing happens. You can bet the farm knowing the ego that Belicheat's clones have he wont allow Cassel not to be it.

I believe Pioli is about winning, not making himself look right.

dallaschiefsfan
09-23-2009, 12:21 PM
Pioli's tenure is going to be linked to Cassel unless a Brady type thing happens. You can bet the farm knowing the ego that Belicheat's clones have he wont allow Cassel not to be it.

This is simply an over-reach. This has been said of countless GM's that still lead their franchises after drafting or signing failed QB's that supposedly will be linked to them forever. Winning makes everyone forget.

And by the way, you might want to stop drinking the Whitlock Koolaid that Pioli is an egomaniac. Outside of Whitlock, who is saying this about the guy's character?

DaWolf
09-23-2009, 12:24 PM
It's a win/win for Haley.

First, he gets to see how Cassel responds to this. You know Haley wants a mentally tough and resilient guy as his QB. So if Cassel responds poorly, strike one. If he responds well, then he's got something.

Second, he can probably sense that Cassel probably won't make it through the whole season healthy, so it's best to pump up Croyle a bit to keep his confidence up and also make sure he pushes himself as hard as he can.

Third and most importantly, it's all about competition. You want guys who want to be the best and you want those guys playing on sundays, so yeah I believe Haley, if he sees that there is something from Croyle that is going to help us win games that he's not getting from Cassel, he'll put in Croyle.

Of course the major downside is that if he inserts Croyle and then Croyle stinks it up and we keep losing, a good possibility given Croyle's history and lack of wins, he's basically screwed at QB.

I should add that I certainly think and hope that Cassel will respond well to this...

ChiefsCountry
09-23-2009, 12:24 PM
And by the way, you might want to stop drinking the Whitlock Koolaid that Pioli is an egomaniac. Outside of Whitlock, who is saying this about the guy's character?

I said it along time ago before jwhit started, its a trait that all of the Belicheck guys have, Weis, Mangina, McDaniels, etc.

Brock
09-23-2009, 12:32 PM
I said it along time ago before jwhit started, its a trait that all of the Belicheck guys have, Weis, Mangina, McDaniels, etc.

What about Crennel? Or Dimitroff? They don't seem like egomaniacs to me.

dallaschiefsfan
09-23-2009, 12:38 PM
I said it along time ago before jwhit started, its a trait that all of the Belicheck guys have, Weis, Mangina, McDaniels, etc.

Can't speak to each of those guys, but Pioli strikes me as a guy that's all-business. That's not egotistical...that's called being responsible because you know you'll be held accountable for your actions (or lack thereof).

DaWolf
09-23-2009, 12:39 PM
I said it along time ago before jwhit started, its a trait that all of the Belicheck guys have, Weis, Mangina, McDaniels, etc.

Why does Pioli always get tossed in with the coaches? No one likes to point out the success that Pioli's protegee, Thomas Dimitrioff, is having in Atlanta.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/27956928/ns/sports-nfl/

A protégé of Patriots vice president of player personnel Scott Pioli, Dimitroff’s got the same limelight-shunning, credit-sharing traits Pioli’s shown in his time building the Patriots dynasty. He doesn’t want the Falcons success to be about him.

He knows that from his six seasons in New England that, if selflessness starts at the top, it filters down quickly.

“Mike and I used the model that Bill and Scott have in New England,” Dimitroff explains. “The closeness, the regular communication. That was a big part of my focus here. It had to be comfortable interaction. And Mike and I, the first time we spoke what was supposed to be a 90-minute meeting ended up being a three hour meeting. We respect each other's craft. I respect coaches immensely. My father was a coach. And Mike respects the institution of scouting.”

“Scott is a strong personality — very passionate about football, a very detailed administrator, a very adept evaluator. The way he orchestrated the personnel side and got the proper information and proper direction of the team and system from Bill Belichick and was able to disseminate that information to me and the scouting staff, we all felt we were on the proverbial same page. And that was very important going out to scout. We weren’t just writing people up for the league; we were writing people up for the New England Patriots. That’s something that sunk deep. I’ve been involved in other regimes and nowhere did I learn more than being around Scott and Bill and from Scott’s approach to scouting.”

So Scott Pioli has been an integral part of building a three time superbowl winner and tutored one of the hottest new GM's in the league, yet he's arrogant and doesn't know what he's doing 2 games into his first season. Go figure...

Raised On Riots
09-23-2009, 12:44 PM
The press is really fanning the flames on this one.

OnTheWarpath58
09-23-2009, 12:45 PM
Why does Pioli always get tossed in with the coaches? No one likes to point out the success that Pioli's protegee, Thomas Dimitrioff, is having in Atlanta.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/27956928/ns/sports-nfl/

So Scott Pioli has been an integral part of building a three time superbowl winner and tutored one of the hottest new GM's in the league, yet he's arrogant and doesn't know what he's doing 2 games into his first season. Go figure...

As they were saying on Sirius NFL Radio yesterday, Dimitroff is the only success to have come out of NE.

And the reason they gave for it is that he's his own man. Notice what he did when he got to Atlanta:

No talk about the Patriot Way.

Went against almost every core belief of the Patriots organization:

-Spent high draft pick on franchise QB

-Spent big money in FA at the RB position, among others.

-Traded a high draft pick for a guy that plays a complementary position, who only wants to play another year or two.


Just a few examples.

They said he's gone against the grain ever since he was an area scout for the Pats. It's not surprising to see the guy succeed, where everyone else that has left NE has failed.

DaWolf
09-23-2009, 01:06 PM
As they were saying on Sirius NFL Radio yesterday, Dimitroff is the only success to have come out of NE.

And the reason they gave for it is that he's his own man. Notice what he did when he got to Atlanta:

No talk about the Patriot Way.

Went against almost every core belief of the Patriots organization:

-Spent high draft pick on franchise QB

-Spent big money in FA at the RB position, among others.

-Traded a high draft pick for a guy that plays a complementary position, who only wants to play another year or two.


Just a few examples.

They said he's gone against the grain ever since he was an area scout for the Pats. It's not surprising to see the guy succeed, where everyone else that has left NE has failed.

Did you even read the article? All he did was talk about the way they did it with the Patriots and how he brought that to Atlanta.

Also to say he went against the "core beliefs of the Patriots organization" is laughable. They've acquired guys who love football and are about winning. Specific to your points:

1) Who ever said it's against their philosophy to draft a QB high? The Pats already had Drew Bledsoe and then Brady emerged, so when was there ever a need to draft a QB high? Atlanta meanwhile was a totally different animal, you just had your franchise QB going to jail and fan apathy was abound. Matt Ryan was the perfect "Patriots type" player, a guy who was all about football and all about improving. And Arthur Blank was pushing for the QB to be picked because they needed a new face to the franchise. So that's where they went.

2) The Pats have never been shy about free agency. They have been smart about it. And you could say that about Atlanta too. They didn't overpay, they went out and got the right guys for that team.

3) Traded for Randy Moss and Wes Welker. So where's the difference? If you have an opportunity to get a few playmakers who can make the difference on your team, you get them, and both organizations did.

This whole thing about Dimitrioff abandoning anything that had to do with the Patriots is just a fallacy. Just because Mike Smith isn't a Bellichick clone doesn't mean he didn't implement the same values in the organization, which as the article points out, he did (and mentioned the Patriots influence several times throughout it)...

Demonpenz
09-23-2009, 01:06 PM
they got to put a moat around castle

Psyko Tek
09-23-2009, 06:47 PM
I think it maybe a scare tactic
just to let cassell know he isn't the chosen one

milkman
09-23-2009, 07:18 PM
Did you even read the article? All he did was talk about the way they did it with the Patriots and how he brought that to Atlanta.

Also to say he went against the "core beliefs of the Patriots organization" is laughable. They've acquired guys who love football and are about winning. Specific to your points:

1) Who ever said it's against their philosophy to draft a QB high? The Pats already had Drew Bledsoe and then Brady emerged, so when was there ever a need to draft a QB high? Atlanta meanwhile was a totally different animal, you just had your franchise QB going to jail and fan apathy was abound. Matt Ryan was the perfect "Patriots type" player, a guy who was all about football and all about improving. And Arthur Blank was pushing for the QB to be picked because they needed a new face to the franchise. So that's where they went.

2) The Pats have never been shy about free agency. They have been smart about it. And you could say that about Atlanta too. They didn't overpay, they went out and got the right guys for that team.

3) Traded for Randy Moss and Wes Welker. So where's the difference? If you have an opportunity to get a few playmakers who can make the difference on your team, you get them, and both organizations did.

This whole thing about Dimitrioff abandoning anything that had to do with the Patriots is just a fallacy. Just because Mike Smith isn't a Bellichick clone doesn't mean he didn't implement the same values in the organization, which as the article points out, he did (and mentioned the Patriots influence several times throughout it)...

Even if Dimitroff hadn't talked about and followed the Patriot way, for Scott Pioli, it's different, since he was one of the two people that created the Patriot way.

Mecca
09-23-2009, 07:25 PM
Dimitroff did everything completely differently than all of the other guys have...

He didn't shoehorn his team into a 3-4, he used his first 2 picks on a QB and a LT, if you look at how he did things compared to the rest of the Patriot disciples it's night and day.

Just look at the coach he hired.

JASONSAUTO
09-23-2009, 07:25 PM
Even if Dimitroff hadn't talked about and followed the Patriot way, for Scott Pioli, it's different, since he was one of the two people that created the Patriot way.

to read this place pioli had NOTHING to do with it, he just signed nfl free agents.

Douche Baggins
09-23-2009, 07:30 PM
Giving up on Brodie Croyle would be absolutely ridiculous at this point in time, especially if he can finally beat the injury bug and stay healthy.


Dane, you are full of shit.

It would be a terrible decision to bring him back.

He CANNOT stay healthy. The backup QB MUST be durable.

Croyle's not and never has been.

Three ACL tears isn't bad luck.

His body cannot endure the rigors of professional football.

It's time for he and the Chiefs to move on.

Fully and completely disagree.

The guy has torn both ACL's, had shoulder injuries and just can't stay healthy. Adding more weight and muscle to his frame would likely cause further issues with his knees.

I can't imagine that he'll be on the Chiefs roster in September, let alone be a good backup anywhere.

His body won't allow it.

Also, this is good:


If you can't see that Thigpen's a high quality QB, then you're a fucking idiot.

JASONSAUTO
09-23-2009, 07:32 PM
is that last one actually what you said dane? wow lol

Douche Baggins
09-23-2009, 07:39 PM
Dane has always had good strong man love for Thiggy.

No fucking way.

The Chiefs have Thigpen and Gray as 1 and 2 next year. They should draft a 5th-7th developmental guy. Day one (first or second round) is a COMPLETE waste of a pick, especially with pressing needs at RG, RT, C, DE & LB.

Thigpen threw two INT's that were made by an incredibly athletic CB. It wasn't like they were lob passes to a waiting CB.

The fumble was just an example of a young guy pressing. He'll learn from both mistakes.

Bowser
09-23-2009, 07:39 PM
This is an impressive amount of hand wringing over a guy that has had one fucking start with a new team.

milkman
09-23-2009, 07:44 PM
Dane has always had good strong man love for Thigpen.

Gotta admire a man with his conviction.

But, boy, when he flips, he flops.

milkman
09-23-2009, 07:45 PM
The fact is, we all have said some things that we believed at times only to figure out eventually that we were wrong.

Deberg_1990
09-23-2009, 07:46 PM
Dane, you are full of shit.







Also, this is good:

Link Please.

Douche Baggins
09-23-2009, 07:46 PM
Link Please.

Click the little red buttons next to Dane's name in the posts I quoted.

Brock
09-23-2009, 07:46 PM
The guy who started the Hermines is the last guy who should go dumpster diving.

milkman
09-23-2009, 07:47 PM
Link Please.

Just click on the > in the red in the quote.

JASONSAUTO
09-23-2009, 07:48 PM
The fact is, we all have said some things that we believed at times only to figure out eventually that we were wrong.

yep. i'll agree. i can see thigpen for what he is now.

Douche Baggins
09-23-2009, 07:48 PM
The guy who started the Hermines is the last guy who should go dumpster diving.

Agreed.

We're all full of shit.

Deberg_1990
09-23-2009, 07:50 PM
Wow...i cant believe Dane made that last statement.