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petegz28
09-23-2009, 11:15 AM
Even with 1 Dem voting for the amendment, the Dems defeated the amendment 12-11 which would have required the verbage and analysis from the CBO to be posted 3 days prior to vote.


Apparently John Kerry is on record stating "no one reads this stuff anyway".



Trillions of $'s at stake but let's not take the time to read the ****ing bill before we vote on it.

Democrats who talk about transparency and such can just kiss the fattest part of my ass.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/23/house-lawmakers-aim-push-back-against-hasty-votes//print/

From the linked article:


Earlier this summer, Mrs. Pelosi told a reporter she would allow a 48-hour waiting period prior to bringing health care legislation up for a vote.

mlyonsd
09-23-2009, 11:17 AM
This has to be some kind of joke.

Simplex3
09-23-2009, 11:17 AM
Hope, change, and transparency baby.

memyselfI
09-23-2009, 11:19 AM
Co-conspirators.

Donger
09-23-2009, 11:20 AM
That is just ridiculous.

"This is fundamentally a delay tactic," said Sen. John F. Kerry, Massachusetts Democrat."

blaise
09-23-2009, 11:21 AM
Transparency for some.

wild1
09-23-2009, 11:22 AM
hope. change. asking you to believe.

HonestChieffan
09-23-2009, 11:29 AM
Call Clair...over and over.

dirk digler
09-23-2009, 11:30 AM
At first I was thinking that is crap then I saw this. Am I missing something?

Instead, the panel passed an alternative amendment that would require the committee to post the full bill, in "conceptual" instead of legal language, as well as as a CBO cost estimate.

dirk digler
09-23-2009, 11:44 AM
A couple of more points to make on this. The Finance Committee has always used conceptual language for their bills and the Republicans wanted to change that up to use legislative language which would have been a first in history for that committee. Basically they were trying to stall. That is what Kerry was talking about I will post the quote.

Second, Baucus is quoted as saying before they vote everyone will have the CBO numbers.

Third, this isn't even close to being finished. This bill gets merged with the other 6 bills so people need to remember that.

Politico.com

Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) was blunt. “Let’s be honest about it, most people don’t read the legislative language.”

Baucus assured committee members that they would see a CBO analysis of the bill before he calls a vote.

"Absolutely, because that is the responsible thing to do," Baucus said.

BigRedChief
09-23-2009, 11:50 AM
A couple of more points to make on this. The Finance Committee has always used conceptual language for their bills and the Republicans wanted to change that up to use legislative language which would have been a first in history for that committee. Basically they were trying to stall. That is what Kerry was talking about I will post the quote.

Second, Baucus is quoted as saying before they vote everyone will have the CBO numbers.

Third, this isn't even close to being finished. This bill gets merged with the other 6 bills so people need to remember that.
No chit. People need to chill. There are at least 6 bills and over 600 amendments proposed so far. There is no final vote on this until Novemember or December. It's just sausage making now.

HonestChieffan
09-23-2009, 11:57 AM
so you dont think a 3 day period in final form and a CBO firm cost estimate is not needed?

dirk digler
09-23-2009, 12:01 PM
so you dont think a 3 day period in final form and a CBO firm cost estimate is not needed?

Reading 101


Instead, the panel passed an alternative amendment that would require the committee to post the full bill, in "conceptual" instead of legal language, as well as as a CBO cost estimate.

blaise
09-23-2009, 12:02 PM
A couple of more points to make on this. The Finance Committee has always used conceptual language for their bills and the Republicans wanted to change that up to use legislative language which would have been a first in history for that committee. Basically they were trying to stall. That is what Kerry was talking about I will post the quote.

Second, Baucus is quoted as saying before they vote everyone will have the CBO numbers.

Third, this isn't even close to being finished. This bill gets merged with the other 6 bills so people need to remember that.

I appreciate that, but I'm mostly just here to make shallow, sarcastic comments.

wild1
09-23-2009, 12:04 PM
At first I was thinking that is crap then I saw this. Am I missing something?

In other words, a "conceptual" version with no legal specifics so that conflation and lying is still possible all the way up to the vote, and no one will really be able to say for sure what's in it.

Donger
09-23-2009, 12:04 PM
Reading 101

"The amendment would have delayed a vote on the final bill for about two weeks to allow the Congressional Budget Office to complete its final analysis on the cost and implications of the legislation."

Don't you think two weeks is justified in order to see the full CBO analysis? Why the rush?

HonestChieffan
09-23-2009, 12:05 PM
in conceptual form.....screw that double talk BS Why not in its final full damn form exactly as it will be voted on?

dirk digler
09-23-2009, 12:05 PM
I appreciate that, but I'm mostly just here to make shallow, sarcastic comments.

LMAO I appreciate your honesty. I apologize for hijacking this thread with some truth. :)

wild1
09-23-2009, 12:06 PM
In other words, a "conceptual" version with no legal specifics so that conflation and lying is still possible all the way up to the vote, and no one will really be able to say for sure what's in it.

And, as Donger said, to get it out the door before the CBO is done analyzing it.

HonestChieffan
09-23-2009, 12:07 PM
LMAO I appreciate your honesty. I apologize for hijacking this thread with some truth. :)

In conceptual form your avatar would be a hand lettered sign that says "big nice boob pic"

dirk digler
09-23-2009, 12:09 PM
In other words, a "conceptual" version with no legal specifics so that conflation and lying is still possible all the way up to the vote, and no one will really be able to say for sure what's in it.

Maybe you missed the part where they said it has always been done that way. Now people want to change the rules.

"The amendment would have delayed a vote on the final bill for about two weeks to allow the Congressional Budget Office to complete its final analysis on the cost and implications of the legislation."

Don't you think two weeks is justified in order to see the full CBO analysis? Why the rush?

Do you guys having reading problems today? Baucus said they will have the CBO numbers before they vote.

ROYC75
09-23-2009, 12:11 PM
Dems & Libs : Quick, pass it, we will worry about what it means and how to pay for it after we made the mistake. There is always time to cross that bridge later..... why worry now, we have other things to contend with.

ROYC75
09-23-2009, 12:14 PM
Maybe you missed the part where they said it has always been done that way. Now people want to change the rules.



Do you guys having reading problems today? Baucus said they will have the CBO numbers before they vote.

So, Later if they don't look good ( the numbers) we can strike it down, re write it, take more time, delay things, but let's get this done now, we can build a bridge now, let's not worry rather it holds up or not, just do it.


Makes sense .

Donger
09-23-2009, 12:15 PM
Do you guys having reading problems today? Baucus said they will have the CBO numbers before they vote.

Seems like you are having problems:

"Chairman Max Baucus, Montana Democrat, promised committee members that they'd have a preliminary analysis of the bill before they vote.

ROYC75
09-23-2009, 12:17 PM
12 -11 ,such convincing means of passing.

wild1
09-23-2009, 12:18 PM
Sounds like it's time for a new slur. Like "birther" and "tenther", we need "reader" - people who irrationally think legislators should read legislation, and "budgeter" - people who irrationally think the government should work from a budget.

Maybe "accounter" - someone who is crazy enough to think people should have an idea what the government is spending and on what.

"republicer" - someone who believes the people should be able to affect the course of their government.

HonestChieffan
09-23-2009, 12:24 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WRYk0ecSkXc/SrpVIMunZnI/AAAAAAAAHTg/-I5vrGqSV34/s400/obamayouthcorp.jpg

dirk digler
09-23-2009, 12:25 PM
Seems like you are having problems:

"Chairman Max Baucus, Montana Democrat, promised committee members that they'd have a preliminary analysis of the bill before they vote.

That is what I said go read and get your glasses while you are at it.

Baucus said they will have the CBO numbers before they vote.

wild1
09-23-2009, 12:28 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WRYk0ecSkXc/SrpVIMunZnI/AAAAAAAAHTg/-I5vrGqSV34/s400/obamayouthcorp.jpg

LMAO

dirk digler
09-23-2009, 12:33 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WRYk0ecSkXc/SrpVIMunZnI/AAAAAAAAHTg/-I5vrGqSV34/s400/obamayouthcorp.jpg

That is kind of ghey :D

mlyonsd
09-23-2009, 12:33 PM
Democrats keep putting the gun to their head. I wonder if they'll ever realize one of the chambers might be loaded.

Donger
09-23-2009, 12:41 PM
That is what I said go read and get your glasses while you are at it.

Good lord....

What f*cking numbers? Preliminary, which is what Baucus said, or final analysis?

wild1
09-23-2009, 12:47 PM
Besides, was the campaign promise not 5 days in advance, anyway?

mlyonsd
09-23-2009, 12:47 PM
Good lord....

What f*cking numbers? Preliminary, which is what Baucus said, or final analysis?

The way the democrats have taken a fetal position type beating over the true cost of health care reform you'd think they'd know better wouldn't you?

Or, I suppose, they've finally had enough of the imaginary opposition and have decided to go ahead and pass a totally partisan bill through. Something they could have done since day one.

dirk digler
09-23-2009, 12:49 PM
Good lord....

What f*cking numbers? Preliminary, which is what Baucus said, or final analysis?

Preliminarily or estimate whatever you so choose.

Then they vote and this bill gets merged in with 6 other bills and then it goes to another committee which then merges the House and Senate Bills so this whole thing is going to be alot different before the final vote.

Donger
09-23-2009, 12:52 PM
Preliminarily or estimate whatever you so choose.

Then they vote and this bill gets merged in with 6 other bills and then it goes to another committee which then merges the House and Senate Bills so this whole thing is going to be alot different before the final vote.

Well, for someone lambasting people for having reading comprehension issues, you sure give yourself a pass.

Anyway, don't you think that a two week delay is justified in order to get the final CBO analysis?

dirk digler
09-23-2009, 12:59 PM
Well, for someone lambasting people for having reading comprehension issues, you sure give yourself a pass.

Anyway, don't you think that a two week delay is justified in order to get the final CBO analysis?

All of this is just an estimation whether it is prelim or their supposedly final analysis. In the end I bet it is wrong either way.

And Baucus addresses your last question. “We have never, ever, ever, ever done that in this committee.”

mlyonsd
09-23-2009, 01:02 PM
And Baucus addresses your last question.

That's the point. If they truly wanted a fair assessment by the public they'd start with this bill.

Pretty soon it will probably be considered racist for a politician to think outside the box when it comes to actually watching over how tax dollars are spent.

dirk digler
09-23-2009, 01:08 PM
That's the point. If they truly wanted a fair assessment by the public they'd start with this bill.

Pretty soon it will probably be considered racist for a politician to think outside the box when it comes to actually watching over how tax dollars are spent.

Mylonsd spare me the racist bs you are smarter than that.

If this was a single bill I would tend to agree with you but this is going to be merged into 6 other bills and then merged again with the house bill and in the end this bill isn't going to exist.

When it gets to the final bill then I am all for having all the information and giving it a week prior to vote.

***SPRAYER
09-23-2009, 01:19 PM
This has to be some kind of joke.

This whole world is a joke.

BigRedChief
09-23-2009, 01:22 PM
Mylonsd spare me the racist bs you are smarter than that.

If this was a single bill I would tend to agree with you but this is going to be merged into 6 other bills and then merged again with the house bill and in the end this bill isn't going to exist.

When it gets to the final bill then I am all for having all the information and giving it a week prior to vote.
THIS!

There is not a snow ball in hell's chance of this bill surviving without a major overhaul and many votes on amendments before it even gets to the floor fo an actual vote.

***SPRAYER
09-23-2009, 01:24 PM
Why can't they just dump the whole thing? It's a stupid idea, nobody wants it and all it is doing to causing problems.

patteeu
09-23-2009, 01:26 PM
All of this is just an estimation whether it is prelim or their supposedly final analysis. In the end I bet it is wrong either way.

And Baucus addresses your last question.

I thought the democrats were going to usher in a new level of transparency. Where is the change? Instead, the defense offered by Baucus (and you) is "What's wrong with this, it's business as usual". :shake:

BigRedChief
09-23-2009, 01:29 PM
I thought the democrats were going to usher in a new level of transparency. Where is the change? Instead, the defense offered by Baucus (and you) is "What's wrong with this, it's business as usual". :shake:because its a stall it, then kill it political tactic. Not a fairness and open government move.

mlyonsd
09-23-2009, 01:35 PM
Mylonsd spare me the racist bs you are smarter than that.

If this was a single bill I would tend to agree with you but this is going to be merged into 6 other bills and then merged again with the house bill and in the end this bill isn't going to exist.

When it gets to the final bill then I am all for having all the information and giving it a week prior to vote.

If you can't point to at least three instances in the last few weeks where the left played the race card for political effect you're either not paying attention or dumber than I thought.

To not have an accurate estimate on this bill or any others merged together at a later point makes reconciling the final estimate impossible.

Something democrats don't want to publicly state but privately hope to do. Kudo's to any member of Congress that doesn't want to put up with that BS.

go bowe
09-23-2009, 01:44 PM
I appreciate that, but I'm mostly just here to make shallow, sarcastic comments.HEY...

that's MY job...

:) :) :)

dirk digler
09-23-2009, 01:57 PM
I thought the democrats were going to usher in a new level of transparency. Where is the change? Instead, the defense offered by Baucus (and you) is "What's wrong with this, it's business as usual". :shake:

BRC answered part of it but the other part is that this bill isn't going to exist in about a month so take the estimate and go from there.

If you can't point to at least three instances in the last few weeks where the left played the race card for political effect you're either not paying attention or dumber than I thought.

To not have an accurate estimate on this bill or any others merged together at a later point makes reconciling the final estimate impossible.

Something democrats don't want to publicly state but privately hope to do. Kudo's to any member of Congress that doesn't want to put up with that BS.

You said pretty soon anyone that thinks out of the box will be called a racist. You really believe that? Sure there is people on the left that have said that just like alot of people on the right called anyone that was against the Iraq war traitors and un-American. Now it is on the other foot and you don't like it. I disagree with both tactics do you?

It is pointless at this point to estimate any bill cost because they are going to merge them all and take out what they don't want.

headsnap
09-23-2009, 01:58 PM
because its a stall it, then kill it political tactic. Not a fairness and open government move.

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kawjAsAWe_M&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kawjAsAWe_M&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

Inspector
09-23-2009, 02:03 PM
BRC answered part of it but the other part is that this bill isn't going to exist in about a month so take the estimate and go from there.



You said pretty soon anyone that thinks out of the box will be called a racist. You really believe that? Sure there is people on the left that have said that just like alot of people on the right called anyone that was against the Iraq war traitors and un-American. Now it is on the other foot and you don't like it. I disagree with both tactics do you?

It is pointless at this point to estimate any bill cost because they are going to merge them all and take out what they don't want.


I'm sorry but your avatar prevents me from staying on topic....

Wait...what?

Sorry, I have to go to the bathroom.

mlyonsd
09-23-2009, 02:30 PM
You said pretty soon anyone that thinks out of the box will be called a racist.

I dunno, you tell me...

WASHINGTON (CNN) - Rep. Hank Johnson is standing by his comments that Rep. Joe Wilson's "You lie!" outburst at President Obama "instigated more racist sentiment" and could lead to a resurgence of the Ku Klux Klan.

Johnson, a Georgia Democrat, wrote in the Atlanta Journal Constitution (http://www.ajc.com/opinion/fringe-element-could-easily-143455.html)on Monday that he doesn't think that most of Obama's opponents are motivated by racism, but that he believes Wilson's comments "winked at a racist element" and that there is a small but "racially motivated fringe" among those who disapprove of the president and his policies.

"Wilson is a canny politician," Johnson said. "His outburst was a carefully calculated appeal to a particular constituency who question the legitimacy of Barack Obama's presidency. The symbolism of his act, which violated the rules of the House and attacked the dignity of the president's office, emboldened and validated those who believe that President Obama, despite having been lawfully elected, is an illegitimate occupant of the White House."

Johnson said that some feel "resentment that the president of the United States is a black man" and that the "risk of violence is real." He said he believes some of the angry protests during town hall meetings over the summer were also motivated by racism and warned that if that element of some opposition is ignored, it will "fester, grow and come back to haunt us in ways we haven't seen in decades."


"That is, ultimately, what my comments were meant to convey," he said.

"The United States has shown a capacity for progress and self-improvement virtually unprecedented in human history. But let us not believe that the bad old days are so far behind us that racially driven violence could not once again rend our social fabric."

Johnson ultimately said he will not apologize for saying last week that Wilson's comments could lead to a revitalization of the Ku Klux Klan.

"I guess we'll probably have folks putting on white hoods and white uniforms again and riding through the countryside, intimidating people," Johnson said on September 15. "That's the logical conclusion if this kind of attitude is not rebuked."

Wilson's outburst was very much pointed at how tax dollars were going to be spent. I didn't have to look very hard for an example either.

petegz28
09-23-2009, 02:58 PM
Maybe you missed the part where they said it has always been done that way. Now people want to change the rules.


Do you guys having reading problems today? Baucus said they will have the CBO numbers before they vote.



Change we can believe in!!!

dirk digler
09-23-2009, 03:00 PM
I dunno, you tell me...


Wilson's outburst was very much pointed at how tax dollars were going to be spent. I didn't have to look very hard for an example either.

I see how you avoided the question. Great job.

Let me add I don't agree with the tactic of calling anyone that opposes Obama a racist just like I don't agree with conservatives and several on here that called people who opposed the Iraq War traitors and Un-American. Of course you didn't have a problem with it then now you want to cry about it.

petegz28
09-23-2009, 03:01 PM
because its a stall it, then kill it political tactic. Not a fairness and open government move.

by the same token, your excuse is nothing more than an excuse for "same as it ever was" politics, which directly contradicts the whole mantra of this Admin.

mlyonsd
09-23-2009, 04:15 PM
I see how you avoided the question. Great job.

Let me add I don't agree with the tactic of calling anyone that opposes Obama a racist just like I don't agree with conservatives and several on here that called people who opposed the Iraq War traitors and Un-American. Of course you didn't have a problem with it then now you want to cry about it.

I made a statement, you questioned my intelligience, followed up with me proving my point by searching the internet for 30 seconds.

I'm good with that.

mlyonsd
09-23-2009, 04:29 PM
I see how you avoided the question. Great job.

Let me add I don't agree with the tactic of calling anyone that opposes Obama a racist just like I don't agree with conservatives and several on here that called people who opposed the Iraq War traitors and Un-American. Of course you didn't have a problem with it then now you want to cry about it.

One more thing. I called members in congress that openly called the Iraq war lost and the surge a failure before it started unpatriotic when they went ahead and voted to fund both while putting American soldiers more at risk by their comments.

I'm good with that too.

Simplex3
09-23-2009, 05:13 PM
In other words, a "conceptual" version with no legal specifics so that conflation and lying is still possible all the way up to the vote, and no one will really be able to say for sure what's in it.

Bingo.

patteeu
09-23-2009, 06:48 PM
One more thing. I called members in congress that openly called the Iraq war lost and the surge a failure before it started unpatriotic when they went ahead and voted to fund both while putting American soldiers more at risk by their comments.

I'm good with that too.

Me too.

KCTitus
09-23-2009, 07:20 PM
Apparently John Kerry is on record stating "no one reads this stuff anyway".

Is this the same John Kerry who served in Vietnam?

dirk digler
09-23-2009, 07:27 PM
I made a statement, you questioned my intelligience, followed up with me proving my point by searching the internet for 30 seconds.

I'm good with that.

And I could do a simple google search and find any number of statements made by conservatives calling people unpatriot, traitors, cowards etc

What is your point?

One more thing. I called members in congress that openly called the Iraq war lost and the surge a failure before it started unpatriotic when they went ahead and voted to fund both while putting American soldiers more at risk by their comments.

I'm good with that too.

Great so don't complain when people call you or others a racist. It seems you can dish it out you just can't take it.

Saul Good
09-23-2009, 09:08 PM
by the same token, your excuse is nothing more than an excuse for "same as it ever was" politics, which directly contradicts the whole mantra of this Admin.

The more things Change, the more they stay the same.


(maybe I'll make that my new sig line.)

HonestChieffan
09-24-2009, 06:52 AM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3QqO8EXd-II/SrsvYUv7KhI/AAAAAAAAsnA/8AGSEeCMv1c/s400/ATT00001.jpg

mlyonsd
09-24-2009, 08:19 AM
And I could do a simple google search and find any number of statements made by conservatives calling people unpatriot, traitors, cowards etc

What is your point?



Great so don't complain when people call you or others a racist. It seems you can dish it out you just can't take it.

Are you out of high school yet? Entire discussions seem to go right over your head.

dirk digler
09-24-2009, 09:36 AM
Are you out of high school yet? Entire discussions seem to go right over your head.

What went over my head please explain?

dirk digler
09-24-2009, 09:40 AM
Oh and interesting reason why the wanted the 72 hr delay is because they want the lobbyists to read the bill and give the Republicans their marching orders because they all are on their payroll.

"The thing I'm trying to point out," said Pat Roberts, "is that we would have at least 72 hours for the people that the providers have hired to keep up with all of the legislation that we pass around here, and the regulations that we pass around here, to say, 'Hey, wait a minute. Have you considered this?' That's all I'm asking for."

Brock
09-24-2009, 09:47 AM
Oh and interesting reason why the wanted the 72 hr delay is because they want the lobbyists to read the bill and give the Republicans their marching orders because they all are on their payroll.

Wow, imagine that, an industry wants to know what legislation that affects them says. That's astonishing. The unfettered GALL.

dirk digler
09-24-2009, 09:53 AM
Wow, imagine that, an industry wants to know what legislation that affects them says. That's astonishing. The unfettered GALL.

Lobbyist shouldn't be dictating policy period. That is one of the reasons why Washington is such a clusterfuck is because lobbyists run wild. They don't care about what is best for America they just care what is best for them. (This is just a general statement so don't confuse this with I support the Baucus bill)

mlyonsd
09-24-2009, 09:58 AM
What went over my head please explain?

Explain your first sentence in post 39.

dirk digler
09-24-2009, 10:04 AM
Explain your first sentence in post 39.

What I meant was do you think there is going to be a widespread attempt to label everyone who disagrees with Obama a racist? My answer is no. That doesn't mean there is going to be some stupid people that try that but overall I don't think so.

Either way I disagree with anyone that tries to do that unless it is obviously racist.

And to be honest it is a stupid thing to do because all it does is piss people off more.

patteeu
09-24-2009, 10:12 AM
Oh and interesting reason why the wanted the 72 hr delay is because they want the lobbyists to read the bill and give the Republicans their marching orders because they all are on their payroll.

I can't think of a better group of people to play a watchdog role on Congressional over-activity than the people most directly affected by their regulatory adventurism.

patteeu
09-24-2009, 10:16 AM
Lobbyist shouldn't be dictating policy period. That is one of the reasons why Washington is such a cluster**** is because lobbyists run wild. They don't care about what is best for America they just care what is best for them. (This is just a general statement so don't confuse this with I support the Baucus bill)

This is nonsense. First of all, lobbyists don't dictate anything. Second, there's nothing wrong with citizens lobbying their government. Third, industry experts know a heck of a lot more about the subject than legislators do most of the time. Lord help us if we decide to mindlessly follow the path illuminated only by the "expertise" of our elected representatives.

dirk digler
09-24-2009, 10:24 AM
This is nonsense. First of all, lobbyists don't dictate anything. Second, there's nothing wrong with citizens lobbying their government. Third, industry experts know a heck of a lot more about the subject than legislators do most of the time. Lord help us if we decide to mindlessly follow the path illuminated only by the "expertise" of our elected representatives.

That is the biggest load of crap I have read in awhile. Yeah they don't dictate policy. :rolleyes: They donate millions of dollars to candidates, fly them all over the country, pay for country club memberships, but they expect nothing in return LMAO

And to be fair this goes both ways.

Brock
09-24-2009, 10:48 AM
That is the biggest load of crap I have read in awhile. Yeah they don't dictate policy. :rolleyes: They donate millions of dollars to candidates, fly them all over the country, pay for country club memberships, but they expect nothing in return LMAO

And to be fair this goes both ways.

So your solution is to not let anyone see the legislation so there's no input from anyone but the know-nothings in Washington. Great.

***SPRAYER
09-24-2009, 10:54 AM
Lobbyist shouldn't be dictating policy period. That is one of the reasons why Washington is such a cluster**** is because lobbyists run wild.

So why did you vote for (and continue to suck off) a guy who has so many of them in his administration?

Obama's pick of industry lobbyist draws fire
By JOAN LOWY (AP) – 13 hours ago

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama's nomination of a trucking industry lobbyist to head the agency that regulates the industry drew fire Wednesday from senators and safety advocates.

Anne Ferro, the president and CEO of the Maryland Motor Truck Association for the past six years, was named to head the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, a troubled agency that has been widely criticized for allowing safety recommendations to languish for years without action.

Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., told Ferro at a Senate confirmation hearing Wednesday, that the motor carrier administration is "an agency in dire need of reform."

"Given your ties, Ms. Ferro, to the trucking industry ... I am concerned about your ability to take the bold action we need to keep Americans safe," Lautenberg said.

Ferro described herself as a safety advocate, pointing to her record as head of Maryland's motor vehicle administration, where she pushed for phased-in driving privileges for teens and interlock devices to prevent drunk drivers from operating vehicles.

"My passion is highway safety," Ferro said.

The Truck Safety Coalition, an umbrella group for organizations concerned about dangers posed by trucks, described Ferro in a statement submitted to the Senate commerce committee as "apologist for the trucking industry."

Ferro has defended a Bush administration decision to increase the number of consecutive hours truck drivers can work and the number of hours per week a driver can be on road.

In a letter to The Baltimore Sun co-signed with an official for the American Trucking Associations, Ferro said the regulation improved safety by, among other things, lengthening the required rest period for drivers.

Safety advocates and some lawmakers said the new regulation would increase driver fatigue, a factor in many truck accidents.

Opponents challenged the rule in court, and prevailed, at least in part, on two occasions.

Lautenberg pressed Ferro to promise she will require the trucking industry install devices in trucks that record when the vehicle is turned on and off. The information is used to calculate if drivers are exceeding limits on the number of hours they can drive.

Ferro refused to be pinned down, committing only to a review of research on the devices.

Lautenberg noted that many countries, including all the European Union countries, require the devices.

During the presidential campaign, Obama promised to keep lobbyists at arm's length. Shortly after taking office, he issued an executive order barring any former federally registered lobbyists who join his administration from dealing with matters or agencies related to their lobbying work. Nor could they join agencies they had lobbied in the previous two years.

Ferro lobbied state government. She is registered as a lobbyist with the Maryland State Ethics Commission, and lists a range of transportation and truck-related issues in her registration.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved

dirk digler
09-24-2009, 11:15 AM
So your solution is to not let anyone see the legislation so there's no input from anyone but the know-nothings in Washington. Great.

That is a valid question Brock but my problem is that the lobbyists and the special-interest groups are corrupt and they are the ones that run Congress not the actual members and it has been that way for a while. That is one of the main reasons why we get such shitty water-down legislation. Also so they can appease the lobbyists who donate to their campaign so they can get re-elected and keep the gravy train going.

And that only validates my point more when you have a sitting Congressman from Kansas say we can't vote on this until the lobbyists read it. Who gives a shit if they read it they aren't voting you are dumbass.

So why did you vote for (and continue to suck off) a guy who has so many of them in his administration?



That is one of the things I am most disappointed in about Obama. Though I don't know if you could ever rid or never hire a lobbyist because of limited candidates for certain jobs but they should be at the bottom of the list not the top.

Brock
09-24-2009, 11:18 AM
And that only validates my point more when you have a sitting Congressman from Kansas say we can't vote on this until the lobbyists read it. Who gives a shit if they read it they aren't voting you are dumbass.

They're going to vote on it without ANYONE reading it.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-24-2009, 11:20 AM
They're going to vote on it without ANYONE reading it.

That's how transparency is now defined in the NEW DICTIONARY we'll see printed soon.

dirk digler
09-24-2009, 11:34 AM
They're going to vote on it without ANYONE reading it.

In regards to the Finance Committee bill Baucus has stated everyone will have the final bill and the CBO estimate before they vote. If they don't read it or don't have their staff read it then they have no one to blame but themselves.

Brock
09-24-2009, 11:45 AM
In regards to the Finance Committee bill Baucus has stated everyone will have the final bill and the CBO estimate before they vote. If they don't read it or don't have their staff read it then they have no one to blame but themselves.

So nobody but government officials/bureaucrats get to read it? I'm sitting here watching you gloat about shooting your big toe off. Jesus.

petegz28
09-24-2009, 11:47 AM
In regards to the Finance Committee bill Baucus has stated everyone will have the final bill and the CBO estimate before they vote. If they don't read it or don't have their staff read it then they have no one to blame but themselves.

Um, that is not what was said yesterday....

patteeu
09-24-2009, 12:20 PM
That is the biggest load of crap I have read in awhile. Yeah they don't dictate policy. :rolleyes: They donate millions of dollars to candidates, fly them all over the country, pay for country club memberships, but they expect nothing in return LMAO

And to be fair this goes both ways.

Your fear of lobbyists is irrational. Obama used it to play you.

mlyonsd
09-24-2009, 03:46 PM
What I meant was do you think there is going to be a widespread attempt to label everyone who disagrees with Obama a racist? My answer is no. That doesn't mean there is going to be some stupid people that try that but overall I don't think so.

Either way I disagree with anyone that tries to do that unless it is obviously racist.

And to be honest it is a stupid thing to do because all it does is piss people off more.

First I never accused you of doing it.

That doesnt' mean it isn't happening. Sorry if you refuse to see or admit it.

dirk digler
09-24-2009, 03:56 PM
First I never accused you of doing it.

That doesnt' mean it isn't happening. Sorry if you refuse to see or admit it.

I never said that you did. But what you are trying to do is suggest that anyone that opposes Obama all of his supporters are going to cry racist and that is not true. I certainly have done it and the majority of the Obama supporters on this board haven't done it.

Are there certain individuals out there saying that sure but you are talking about a very very small minority of stupid people just don't paint all us with such a broad brush.

mlyonsd
09-24-2009, 04:26 PM
Are there certain individuals out there saying that sure but you are talking about a very very small minority of stupid people just don't paint all us with such a broad brush.

Then we agree these people are stupid:

Jimmy Carter
Walter Mondale
Democratic Rep. Hank Johnson
Maureen Dowd

I'll continue the list if it grows.

KC Dan
09-24-2009, 04:29 PM
Then we agree these people are stupid:

Jimmy Carter
Walter Mondale
Democratic Rep. Hank Johnson
Maureen Dowd

I'll continue the list if it grows.Please add all MSNBC anchors to that list.

dirk digler
09-24-2009, 05:00 PM
Then we agree these people are stupid:

Jimmy Carter
Walter Mondale
Democratic Rep. Hank Johnson
Maureen Dowd

I'll continue the list if it grows.

I agree and I am sure that list is bigger

mlyonsd
09-25-2009, 04:22 PM
ROFL Dem finance committee vote down amendments meant to give the CBO time to study anything they come up with because they're DELAY tactics, then vote to leave early today and take a long holiday because of Yom Kipper.

You really can't make this up.