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Chiefnj2
09-24-2009, 08:09 AM
Thanks to Arrowhead Pride:
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/9/23/1052045/former-chief-talks-about-recent#storyjump

Tg_tiny by Joel Thorman on Sep 23, 2009 3:38 PM CDT in 2009 Campaign C


Former Kansas City Chiefs offensive lineman and future Hall of Fame guard Will Shields talked with the guys at 810 WHB on Monday about a few issues with the Chiefs.

Shields addressed Matt Cassel, from holding onto the ball too long to his injured knee, the wide receivers, the readiness of Bobby Wade and the Jamaal Charles deactivation.

Interestingly, Shields seemed to indicate that at some point the Chiefs players won't want to put up with Todd Haley's hard-nosed, my way or the highway attitude. It's interesting stuff.

I've taken a few snippets from the interview and put them below. Take a look.

On Matt Cassel holding onto the ball too long:

"I was thinking the same thing - he holds onto it a little longer but he tends to move in the pocket a little longer. It's never hitting that fifth step, settling and throwing the ball.

"The keys for a lot of other seasoned vets that have played a lot is when they hit that back step and start to settle....especially when you've been hit as much as he has, that could be a problem that he is so used to having, to move and scramble and buy a little extra time to get the ball, and that creates a whole other issue.

"Last year, he played behind a line that beforehand wasn't having an issue of giving up quarterback sacks. Maybe it is the simple fact of being able to dissect a defense a little better and faster and getting the ball out a little crisper to where he wants to put the ball and that might create those happy feet or the simple fact of him trying to move around in the pocket a little bit."

Star-divide

On Matt Cassel's injured knee:

‘I don't think so. I don't think it's an issue. If you saw how he first hurt his knee, it was when he was scrambling trying to get away from someone. It wasn't like someone came in low and hit him in stride or (while he was) throwing a pass. When that happens, I think that makes someone more conscious of ‘Hey if I plant my foot to throw the ball someone could be around my knee.' I think those guys get more skiddish than someone who was running down the field and someone fell on their legs."

On the wide receivers:

"It's a catch-22. We love quarterbacks that can buy some time and make that homerun hit. On the other end of the spectrum, you have to have those wide receivers that are willing to go lay out and make those plays and keep working back for the ball so that when he (Cassel) is buying more time it's worth his while.

"It seemed that the more he scrambled and making things happen he was having to still put the ball in a perfect spot. It just seemed that the receivers have to make it happen. You've gotta go out and make the quarterback look good regardless."

On Bobby Wade:

"I was very surprised that he could bring in a new guy for a week and he's almost become his favorite target already. It could be that those are the routes that are in this scheme that are supposed to be open more than others. If you look at the Patriots, it's the same offense, same scheme, it's more or less the Wes Welkers and guys underneath that make it happen with these check downs. That's where they make their bread and butter.

"Really, this offense is more of a control, down the field offense, kill ‘em underneath, then when they start shooting the underneath routes you go deep on them. Then besides that you have a hard-nosed running back that runs tough every game. And that's how they set their tone - it's not an offense looking to score 40, 50 points every game."

On the offensive line:

"They didn't play bad. They kept him upright for the majority of the game. The run game picked up a little bit and that's what you want to see -progression each week.

On Jamaal Charles deactivation:

"The reason you haven't noticed it in the past is because it was always a set , standard of guys. You never saw a Dante Hall sitting just to sit. It's always predicated off of injuries and things like that because they have their starting group.

"The new en vogue piece is going with who's going to best benefit us that week. The communication part has to be internally - as a coach they may not feel they need to explain that but as a player you're cognizant and say what is going on? I was a starter last week and now I'm not or not even dressing the week after. In the other sense, they may use it as a motivational tool saying this guys gives us what we need this week so hopefully next week when you're called up you play like game busters to stay up.

"At some point, they'll say enough is enough and basically there are going to be people who put their foot down and say we're going to take all this yelling and screaming or you have to move me on to somewhere else.

"I think it will create problems, and if you remember last year on their Super Bowl run, he had the same issue with Boldin and all those guys and they were basically putting their foot down saying all this stuff you're doing we're not happy with.

"So, they went through the same issues but now as a head coach it gives you more power but you're more in the spotlight. More people are watching everything you do. You have to check your Ps and Qs and say hey I'm going to be me, and that's fine, but make sure you do what you have to do behind closed doors and get it all out or else it's going to be a downward spiral. "

Demonpenz
09-24-2009, 08:11 AM
WILL SHIELDS TO SIT HIS FAT ASS ON THE ENTIRE 2009 CHIEFS

L.A. Chieffan
09-24-2009, 08:13 AM
todd haley just said FUCK YOU somewhere

Count Zarth
09-24-2009, 08:15 AM
Last year, he played behind a line that beforehand wasn't having an issue of giving up quarterback sacks.

Wow. Who knew Will could be that ignorant?

Disappointing.

Fish
09-24-2009, 08:18 AM
On Bobby Wade:

"I was very surprised that he could bring in a new guy for a week and he's almost become his favorite target already. It could be that those are the routes that are in this scheme that are supposed to be open more than others.

Interesting.......

the Talking Can
09-24-2009, 08:19 AM
cool, we needed another meltdown here..


where's my popcorn?

Chiefnj2
09-24-2009, 08:21 AM
Wow. Who knew Will could be that ignorant?

Disappointing.

2007 Brady was sacked 21 times. In 2008 how many sacks did Cassel take?

Demonpenz
09-24-2009, 08:21 AM
will shields scored on a fumbleruski play at nebraska i wish there was video for it

Count Zarth
09-24-2009, 08:22 AM
2007 Brady was sacked 21 times. In 2008 how many sacks did Cassel take?

Will is implying that Cassel was sacked so many times last year because he held the ball too long.

That myth has already been debunked. The Pats had terrible protection problems.

Chiefnj2
09-24-2009, 08:24 AM
Will is implying that Cassel was sacked so many times last year because he held the ball too long.

That myth has already been debunked. The Pats had terrible protection problems.

You don't think he holds the ball long? He certainly held it too long last week a couple of times.

Hydrae
09-24-2009, 08:28 AM
Former Kansas City Chiefs offensive lineman and future Hall of Fame guard Will Shields...

Wait, wait wait. Before I read the rest of the article, former Chiefs??? Did I miss something in the last couple of days?

Coogs
09-24-2009, 08:35 AM
Wait, wait wait. Before I read the rest of the article, former Chiefs??? Did I miss something in the last couple of days?

Are you thinking Brian Waters instead of Will Shields?

Count Zarth
09-24-2009, 08:37 AM
You don't think he holds the ball long? He certainly held it too long last week a couple of times.

No, I don't. At the beginning of the year he had some issues but they went away pretty fast.

He may have held the ball against Oakland but with our receivers not getting open....understandable.

Shaid
09-24-2009, 08:38 AM
Wait, wait wait. Before I read the rest of the article, former Chiefs??? Did I miss something in the last couple of days?

LMAO

ChiefJustice
09-24-2009, 08:38 AM
Yeah,Will is still retired last time I checked.

the Talking Can
09-24-2009, 08:39 AM
Are you thinking Brian Waters instead of Will Shields?

wow, i totally transposed waters into the article

L.A. Chieffan
09-24-2009, 08:39 AM
No, I don't. At the beginning of the year he had some issues but they went away pretty fast.

He may have held the ball against Oakland but with our receivers not getting open....understandable.

HA, then he's going to be holding the ball long all year if thats the case! POW!

Count Zarth
09-24-2009, 08:42 AM
HA, then he's going to be holding the ball long all year if thats the case! POW!

Part of the reason Pioli and Haley wanted him is his legs.

He's gonna have to make something happen this year when no one gets open.

Hydrae
09-24-2009, 08:53 AM
Are you thinking Brian Waters instead of Will Shields?

DOH!

Tuckdaddy
09-24-2009, 09:07 AM
The HC must have control and be hard nosed. You think Parcells or Bill C let players run the show or their mouths? Hell no! Waters needs to shut the hell up. You don't wanna be here? Can't take it? Then you should retire.

CaliforniaChief
09-24-2009, 09:11 AM
Part of the reason Pioli and Haley wanted him is his legs.

He's gonna have to make something happen this year when no one gets open.

So.......he's going to pull up his pants and temporarily blind the defense with his white legs, buying himself an extra 2 or 3 seconds?

CoMoChief
09-24-2009, 09:17 AM
Will can still play. He needs to come suit up and help this ****ing team. He should be fresh now.

morphius
09-24-2009, 09:18 AM
No, I don't. At the beginning of the year he had some issues but they went away pretty fast.

He may have held the ball against Oakland but with our receivers not getting open....understandable.
Yeah, I thought it was funny that he criticized Cassel for not getting rid of the ball fast enough, but then later mentions that even when he scrambled he was still having to hit a perfect spot because his WR were still not open.

Dave Lane
09-24-2009, 09:21 AM
The HC must have control and be hard nosed. You think Parcells or Bill C let players run the show or their mouths? Hell no! Waters needs to shut the hell up. You don't wanna be here? Can't take it? Then you should retire.

Ummmm Its Shields...

htismaqe
09-24-2009, 09:22 AM
The HC must have control and be hard nosed. You think Parcells or Bill C let players run the show or their mouths? Hell no! Waters needs to shut the hell up. You don't wanna be here? Can't take it? Then you should retire.

The head coach must also be JUDICIOUS about who, when, and why he denigrates. The head coach must also be FAIR and be just as willing to dole at praise as he is vitriol.

And that is the only problem I have with this. The insinuation by many, many people is that Haley yells the f-word ALL THE TIME and does NOTHING else.

That's simply not true.

htismaqe
09-24-2009, 09:23 AM
Yeah, I thought it was funny that he criticized Cassel for not getting rid of the ball fast enough, but then later mentions that even when he scrambled he was still having to hit a perfect spot because his WR were still not open.

:hmmm:

Chiefnj2
09-24-2009, 09:24 AM
Yeah, I thought it was funny that he criticized Cassel for not getting rid of the ball fast enough, but then later mentions that even when he scrambled he was still having to hit a perfect spot because his WR were still not open.

Then he has to throw it away before getting hit.

TrickyNicky
09-24-2009, 09:29 AM
Will is implying that Cassel was sacked so many times last year because he held the ball too long.

That myth has already been debunked. The Pats had terrible protection problems.

Still though, he averaged 3 sacks a game with NE. He already has two sacks in one game with us.

You saw the way Brady was getting trounced by the Jets? Guess how many sacks. 0.

It is definitely something that needs to be addressed.

htismaqe
09-24-2009, 09:36 AM
Then he has to throw it away before getting hit.

Yes, he does.

That being said, it's not going to matter what he does. It's not going to be good enough for most fans until this team starts winning. The little things don't matter at this point when there's a 5000-pound elephant in the room.

Count Zarth
09-24-2009, 09:41 AM
Still though, he averaged 3 sacks a game with NE. He already has two sacks in one game with us.

You saw the way Brady was getting trounced by the Jets? Guess how many sacks. 0.

It is definitely something that needs to be addressed.

Cassel is not Brady.

If he gets sacked 32 times this year, that's perfectly acceptable.

More, then there's a problem, I agree. I don't think our protection is going to be THAT bad.

Chiefnj2
09-24-2009, 09:43 AM
Yes, he does.

That being said, it's not going to matter what he does. It's not going to be good enough for most fans until this team starts winning. The little things don't matter at this point when there's a 5000-pound elephant in the room.

Forgive me, but what's the 5,000 pound elephant? Sanchez in NY?

htismaqe
09-24-2009, 09:50 AM
Forgive me, but what's the 5,000 pound elephant? Sanchez in NY?

The fact that this team has only won 6 games since 01/02/07.

L.A. Chieffan
09-24-2009, 09:55 AM
elephants typically weigh a lot more than 5000 pounds. that particular elephant would not necessarily be worthy of discussing

RippedmyFlesh
09-24-2009, 10:12 AM
Will Shields on the 2009 Chiefs


wish he was................

htismaqe
09-24-2009, 10:28 AM
elephants typically weigh a lot more than 5000 pounds. that particular elephant would not necessarily be worthy of discussing

Yeah, I don't know why I typed pounds. I was wanting to type "tons".

Demonpenz
09-24-2009, 11:00 AM
the elephant in the room means there is a problem that everyone knows about

keg in kc
09-24-2009, 11:01 AM
unless its pink

the Talking Can
09-24-2009, 11:03 AM
elephant = pink aids tree

htismaqe
09-24-2009, 11:13 AM
the elephant in the room means there is a problem that everyone knows about

ROFL

Chief Faithful
09-24-2009, 11:19 AM
Then he has to throw it away before getting hit.

I think part of the issue is his lack of time as a starter. His recognition of when to throw it away will sharpen as he grows as a starter.

htismaqe
09-24-2009, 12:09 PM
I think part of the issue is his lack of time as a starter. His recognition of when to throw it away will sharpen as he grows as a starter.

True.

But as much as I hate to bring it up, doesn't that put us right back into the argument that took place all summer? Basically what we're saying here is that we have a 28-year old ROOKIE QB. That doesn't seem right to me at all.

Chiefnj2
09-24-2009, 12:17 PM
I think part of the issue is his lack of time as a starter. His recognition of when to throw it away will sharpen as he grows as a starter.

- Lack of starts.
- New playbook in general
- New twists to the playbook within the last 3 weeks.
- New and rotating WRs.
- New and rotating HBs.
- Not a lot of talent at skills positions.
- New and rotating OL.
- Preseason injury.

aturnis
09-24-2009, 12:18 PM
Then he has to throw it away before getting hit.

What do you think Cassel did? He Scrambled and bought more time, and got rid of the ball one way or another. How many sacks did he actually take, two? Too lazy to look it up.

keg in kc
09-24-2009, 12:21 PM
We'll see how he plays Sunday. What we had against Oakland was a QB coming off a knee injury that hadn't seen live fire since the first series of the 3rd preseason game in an offense that was installed while he was injured. And beyond that, everybody has a bad game now and then; it takes more than 1 for it to become a trend, or a defining trait.

Beyond that, I wouldn't call any game where a guy completes 60+% of his passes horrible, but that's another discussion. I thought he made some good throws, too, but we obviously focus on the picks, and justifiably so, because they were the difference in the game. But he didn't look like Pickpen out there.

htismaqe
09-24-2009, 12:24 PM
But he didn't look like Pickpen out there.

The sad thing is that there are actually people out there that WANT him to look like Brodie Croyle.

OnTheWarpath58
09-24-2009, 12:26 PM
We'll see how he plays Sunday. What we had against Oakland was a QB coming off a knee injury that hadn't seen live fire since the first series of the 3rd preseason game in an offense that was installed while he was injured. And beyond that, everybody has a bad game now and then; it takes more than 1 for it to become a trend, or a defining trait.

Fair enough, but I have an honest question that you're probably going to see as slinging shit.

When he goes out and has a similar performance over the next 3 weeks, is he going to get a pass because we were playing good teams?

(not necessarily getting a pass from you, just speaking in generalities)

Coogs
09-24-2009, 12:27 PM
We'll see how he plays Sunday. What we had against Oakland was a QB coming off a knee injury that hadn't seen live fire since the first series of the 3rd preseason game in an offense that was installed while he was injured. And beyond that, everybody has a bad game now and then; it takes more than 1 for it to become a trend, or a defining trait.

Beyond that, I wouldn't call any game where a guy completes 60+% of his passes horrible, but that's another discussion. I thought he made some good throws, too, but we obviously focus on the picks, and justifiably so, because they were the difference in the game. But he didn't look like Pickpen out there.

To me, there were similarities of the first pre-season game in the way Cassel played. Not bad, but a couple of head scratchers. Then in game two against the Vikes, he looked very solid.

I'm kind of expecting the same thing this time around as well.

Count Zarth
09-24-2009, 12:32 PM
To me, there were similarities of the first pre-season game in the way Cassel played.

I love Cassel but even I think this is a ridiculous comparison. He didn't come close to throwing a pick against Houston. He was 2-5 and two passes were dropped.

Count Zarth
09-24-2009, 12:33 PM
The sad thing is that there are actually people out there that WANT him to look like Brodie Croyle.

When Cassel threw that pass to Savage that got picked, every receiver on the field was tightly covered.

That's a pass Brodie never even thinks about attempting.

Coogs
09-24-2009, 12:34 PM
I love Cassel but even I think this is a ridiculous comparison. He didn't come close to throwing a pick against Houston. He was 2-5 and two passes were dropped.

He threw one into the back of somebody on the left side of the line. All the while, we had a RB wide open in the flat.

Definately not sharp, but no INT's. You are correct there.

htismaqe
09-24-2009, 12:36 PM
Fair enough, but I have an honest question that you're probably going to see as slinging shit.

When he goes out and has a similar performance over the next 3 weeks, is he going to get a pass because we were playing good teams?

(not necessarily getting a pass from you, just speaking in generalities)

Get a pass? I don't know. I don't feel like he's "getting a pass" now. People in general weren't happy with his performance.

I do think that there are logical explanations for the way he played, and there will be logical explanations if he continues to struggle.

htismaqe
09-24-2009, 12:37 PM
When Cassel threw that pass to Savage that got picked, every receiver on the field was tightly covered.

That's a pass Brodie never even thinks about attempting.

Exactly.

leviw
09-24-2009, 12:41 PM
Really don't understand the need to hear/read a bunch of never-won-anything former Chiefs weigh in on this team.

htismaqe
09-24-2009, 12:44 PM
Really don't understand the need to hear/read a bunch of never-won-anything former Chiefs weigh in on this team.

The hope would be that former players and/or coaches could provide insight into the team that the average person couldn't.

However, I've found that alot of former players don't follow the team as closely was alot of us do, so while their insight into the GAME is interesting, their insight into the TEAM is limited.

And no, I'm not talking necessarily about Will Shields (*cough* Eddie Kennison *cough*)...

Count Zarth
09-24-2009, 12:48 PM
The hope would be that former players and/or coaches could provide insight into the team that the average person couldn't.

However, I've found that alot of former players don't follow the team as closely was alot of us do, so while their insight into the GAME is interesting, their insight into the TEAM is limited.

And no, I'm not talking necessarily about Will Shields (*cough* Eddie Kennison *cough*)...

I'll never forget James Hasty talking about the Chiefs' high-powered offense and the team needing defense....I think it was when they picked Glenn Dorsey.

KCUnited
09-24-2009, 12:52 PM
The hope would be that former players and/or coaches could provide insight into the team that the average person couldn't.

However, I've found that alot of former players don't follow the team as closely was alot of us do, so while their insight into the GAME is interesting, their insight into the TEAM is limited.

And no, I'm not talking necessarily about Will Shields (*cough* Eddie Kennison *cough*)...
Also, I heard a former player, Tim Grunhard, speak out about being treated poorly at Arrowhead since the new regime has taken over. That may skew some former players opinions of how the team is being run and performing.

htismaqe
09-24-2009, 12:55 PM
Also, I heard a former player, Tim Grunhard, speak out about being treated poorly at Arrowhead since the new regime has taken over. That may skew some former players opinions of how the team is being run and performing.

Yep. And to be fair, Tim Grunhard is a member of the media and not just a former player, so of course he's going to be treated differently.

keg in kc
09-24-2009, 01:18 PM
Fair enough, but I have an honest question that you're probably going to see as slinging shit.

When he goes out and has a similar performance over the next 3 weeks, is he going to get a pass because we were playing good teams?

(not necessarily getting a pass from you, just speaking in generalities)To answer that question, I have to layout the way I think about the team in the rebuild. And in that light, I'd say that I expect him - and the entire offense - to show signs of improvement over the next month, even against good teams. It's not any kind of great faith in him as a player, because I don't have any idea how good he is or isn't, yet, but I think they should gel a little more every week, as the new players integrate with the old and everybody becomes more ingrained with the playbook.

So to answer the question more directly, if he, and the rest of the unit with him, didn't improve over the next month, I would be disappointed.

JASONSAUTO
09-24-2009, 01:21 PM
Get a pass? I don't know. I don't feel like he's "getting a pass" now. People in general weren't happy with his performance.

I do think that there are logical explanations for the way he played, and there will be logical explanations if he continues to struggle.

good post

whoman69
09-24-2009, 04:23 PM
2007 Brady was sacked 21 times. In 2008 how many sacks did Cassel take?

That line was outed against the Giants. Brady has had problems this year with protection as well.

Raised On Riots
09-24-2009, 04:29 PM
Forgive me, but what's the 5,000 pound elephant? Sanchez in NY?

Okay, you know how this works:

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http://blog.nj.com/jets_impact/2009/08/large_2-mark-sanchez-new-york-jets-807.jpg