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wild1
09-28-2009, 02:14 PM
Support for Health Care Plan Hits New Low
Monday, September 28, 2009



Just 41% of voters nationwide now favor the health care reform proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. Thatís down two points from a week ago and the lowest level of support yet measured.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 56% are opposed to the plan.

Senior citizens are less supportive of the plan than younger voters. In the latest survey, just 33% of seniors favor the plan while 59% are opposed. The intensity gap among seniors is significant. Only 16% of the over-65 crowd Strongly Favors the legislation while 46% are Strongly Opposed.

For the first time ever, a slight plurality of voters now express doubt that the legislation will become law this year. Forty-six percent (46%) say passage is likely while 47% say it is not. Those figures include 18% who say passage is Very Likely and 15% who say it is Not at All Likely. Sixty percent (60%) are less certain.

Sixty-eight percent (68%) of Democrats say the plan is at least somewhat likely to become law. Sixty-one percent (61%) of Republicans disagree. Among those not affiliated with either major party, 34% say passage is at least somewhat likely while 58% say it is not.

(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.

The overall picture remains one of stability. Todayís record low support for the plan of 41% is just a point lower than the results found twice before. With the exception of a slight bounce earlier this month following the presidentís nationally televised speech to Congress to promote the plan, support for it has remained in the low-to-mid 40s since early July. During that same time period, opposition has generally stayed in the low-to-mid 50s.

Intensity has been with the opposition from the beginning of the public debate. Currently, among all voters 23% Strongly Favor the legislative effort and 43% are Strongly Opposed.

Also, from the beginning of the debate, the has been a huge partisan divide. Currently 75% of Democrats favor the plan. Seventy-nine percent (79%) of Republicans are opposed, as are 72% of the unaffiliated.

Rasmussen Reports will continue to track support for the plan on a weekly basis (see day-by-day numbers).

As Scott Rasmussen, president of Rasmussen Reports, wrote recently in the Wall Street Journal: ďThe most important fundamental is that 68% of American voters have health insurance coverage they rate good or excellent Ö Most of these voters approach the health care reform debate fearing that they have more to lose than to gain.Ē A Rasmussen video report shows that 53% of those with insurance believe itís likely they would have to change coverage if the congressional plan becomes law.

Despite strong efforts by the White House to counter that belief, including many comments by the president himself, there has been no change for months in the number who fear they will be forced out of their current coverage.

Polling released last week shows that 58% of uninsured voters favor passage of the health care plan. However, 35% of the uninsured are opposed. The divide fell largely along partisan and ideological grounds.

If the plan passes, 24% of voters say the quality of care will get better, and 55% say it will get worse. In August, the numbers were 23% better and 50% worse.

Fifty-four percent (54%) say passage of the plan will make the cost of health care go up while 23% say it will make costs go down. In August, 52% thought the plan would lead to higher costs, and just 17% thought it would achieve the stated goal of lowering costs.

While many credit or blame the town hall protests for building opposition to the plan, it appears they were simply a reflection of public opinion rather than a creator of it. This sense is confirmed by the fact that Obamaís approval ratings fell more in June and July before stabilizing in August.

One thing that did change during the month of August is that public perception of the protesters improved. Most voters came to believe that the purpose of the town hall meetings was for members of Congress to listen rather than speak. Thatís partly because just 22% believe Congress has a good understanding of the legislation.

While some Democrats have charged that opposition to the presidentís plan is based upon racism, just 12% of voters agree.

Voters overwhelmingly believe that every American should be able to buy the same health insurance plan that Congress has. Most favor limits on jury awards for medical malpractice claims and think that tort reform will significantly reduce the cost of health care. Forty-eight percent (48%) want a prohibition on abortion in any government subsidized program while 13% want a mandate requiring abortion coverage.

The health care debate has produced a difficult political environment for Democrats. Several incumbent Democratic senators currently are behind in their reelection bids including Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in Nevada, Chris Dodd in Connecticut and Michael Bennet in Colorado. Republicans appear to have a better shot than expected at hanging on to the New Hampshire Senate seat, and GOP incumbents lead in both North Carolina and Iowa. The races for soon-to-be-vacant Senate seats in Missouri and Ohio are neck-and-neck, and longtime incumbent Democratic Senator Barbara Boxer polls under 50% against two potential 2010 challengers in California. Appointed Democratic Senator Kirsten Gillibrand holds a very narrow lead over former Governor George Pataki in a hypothetical match-up for New York Stateís 2010 Senate race.

Democrats also trail in the 2009 governorís races in New Jersey and Virginia. Incumbent Democratic governors in Iowa and Ohio face tough challenges next year. In New York's gubernatorial race, the fate of the Democrats appears to depend on which of two nominees they choose.

The health care debate has become one focal point for voters frustrated by a string of government actions. Voters overwhelmingly opposed the bailout of the financial industry and the bailout and takeover of General Motors.

Direckshun
09-28-2009, 02:16 PM
Link.

wild1
09-28-2009, 02:17 PM
the front page of drudge?

or, RTFA?

Direckshun
09-28-2009, 02:19 PM
the front page of drudge?

or, RTFA?

What's RTFA? Just link the article, please.

wild1
09-28-2009, 02:19 PM
What's RTFA? Just link the article, please.

If you Read The Fing Article, it would be obvious where it was from.

Or like I said, it's on the front page of one of the most read news websites on the internet, and you have the full text, so if your lame tactic is to doubt the authenticity you won't get much futher.

Direckshun
09-28-2009, 02:21 PM
If you Read The Fing Article, it would be obvious where it was from.

Or like I said, it's on the front page of one of the most read news websites on the internet, and you have the full text, so if your lamesauce tactic is to doubt the authenticity you won't get much futher.

I'm not trying to doubt the authority. I'm just asking for a link.

Settle, pal. :)

wild1
09-28-2009, 02:22 PM
I'm not trying to doubt the authority. I'm just asking for a link.

Settle, pal. :)

www.drudgereport.com

Taco John
09-28-2009, 02:22 PM
IMO It's just good manners to include a link.

Taco John
09-28-2009, 02:23 PM
Of course, there in the second line, it clearly says "Rassmussen."

Here's the cited report:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

wild1
09-28-2009, 02:24 PM
IMO It's just good manners to include a link.

I would, normally. But since he's being such a crybaby about it I guess he could either read the first two lines or go to the website where I said it could befound.

I presume he's just floundering because the data makes him uncomfortable.

Direckshun
09-28-2009, 02:25 PM
Alright, now that the link's out, I'm not trying to play off the relative lack of support of Obamacare.

But what's the standard, here? Are we supposed to find a result that a majority of Americans will favor?

Or shall we poll the Current System, or Conservative Reform Ideas (which virtually no conservatives on this board, besides telling me they exist, can actually explain), and see how they stack up against Obamacare?

Direckshun
09-28-2009, 02:26 PM
he's being such a crybaby about it

For the record, ladies and gentlemen:

Link.

Just link the article, please.

I'm not trying to doubt the authority. I'm just asking for a link.

Settle, pal. :)

That's me being a crybaby.

KCWolfman
09-28-2009, 02:27 PM
56% oppose the plan.

Can someone give me the definition of "Republic" again and who is supposed to control the actions of the Republic?

wild1
09-28-2009, 02:28 PM
Alright, now that the link's out, I'm not trying to play off the relative lack of support of Obamacare.

But what's the standard, here? Are we supposed to find a result that a majority of Americans will favor?

Or shall we poll the Current System, or Conservative Reform Ideas (which virtually no conservatives on this board, besides telling me they exist, can actually explain), and see how they stack up against Obamacare?

The data itself answers this question. Only 41% would rather have his idea than the current system.

KCWolfman
09-28-2009, 02:29 PM
Alright, now that the link's out, I'm not trying to play off the relative lack of support of Obamacare.

But what's the standard, here? Are we supposed to find a result that a majority of Americans will favor?

Or shall we poll the Current System, or Conservative Reform Ideas (which virtually no conservatives on this board, besides telling me they exist, can actually explain), and see how they stack up against Obamacare?

I got an idea....

Let's look at some of the Republican ideas and incorporate them in the current structure instead of deliberately ignoring everything they have put out for 9 months. It has worked with previous bills.

Taco John
09-28-2009, 02:29 PM
Alright, now that the link's out, I'm not trying to play off the relative lack of support of Obamacare.

But what's the standard, here? Are we supposed to find a result that a majority of Americans will favor?

Or shall we poll the Current System, or Conservative Reform Ideas (which virtually no conservatives on this board, besides telling me they exist, can actually explain), and see how they stack up against Obamacare?


I think what you guys should do is just decide what's is best for the rest of us, and then push it on the unagreeable majority and expect that it's all going to be a huge success.

Direckshun
09-28-2009, 02:30 PM
I got an idea....

Let's look at some of the Republican ideas and incorporate them in the current structure instead of deliberately ignoring everything they have put out for 9 months. It has worked with previous bills.

What ideas have they put out?

I just started a thread about this.

Direckshun
09-28-2009, 02:31 PM
I think what you guys should do is just decide what's is best for the rest of us, and then push it on the unagreeable majority and expect that it's all going to be a huge success.

That's kind of what policymakers do.

Direckshun
09-28-2009, 02:31 PM
The data itself answers this question. Only 41% would rather have his idea than the current system.

No, that's not what the data asks for.

It's not asking for comparisons.

Taco John
09-28-2009, 02:34 PM
That's kind of what policymakers do.


Indeed it is.

It's no small wonder they fail so often.

KCWolfman
09-28-2009, 02:36 PM
What ideas have they put out?

I just started a thread about this.

Really? You haven't heard any of them? Do you not look? You seem to have no problem garnering data for the liberals. Honestly, I want to be as informed as possible.

Here's one

http://www.ohioverticals.com/blogs/akron_law_cafe/2009/09/health-care-financing-reform-7-the-house-republican-plan/

It was submitted in June... Without response from the Dems and ignored when asked for an audience with the POTUS. This is September. Maybe your buddies were busy for 3 months????

John Kyle delivers more info in July
http://raymondpronk.wordpress.com/2009/07/21/republican-health-care-reform-the-patients-choice-act/


The data is out there... You, your liberal brethen, and the mass media choose to ignore it and instead use phrases like "the party of no". It is sad.

wild1
09-28-2009, 02:36 PM
No, that's not what the data asks for.

It's not asking for comparisons.

You continue to posit that conservatives have offered no alternate solutions.

So, these people must be judging this idea against the current state of affairs, since no alternative solutions exist for them to judge it against.

InChiefsHell
09-28-2009, 02:51 PM
You continue to posit that conservatives have offered no alternate solutions.

So, these people must be judging this idea against the current state of affairs, since no alternative solutions exist for them to judge it against.

Exactly. THis argument of "Well, the Republicans haven't offered any solutions...".

Even if that were true, and it's not, that's STILL no reason to go along with the lib plan.

Direckshun
09-28-2009, 02:52 PM
The data is out there... You, your liberal brethen, and the mass media choose to ignore it and instead use phrases like "the party of no". It is sad.

I know you love to victimize yourselves here but ya'll have done little to nothing to promote your alternate ideas, so much as your energy has been spent trying to blow up Obama's proposals rather than reform them.

Even you can't bring yourself to describe them. You have to google and have links explain them to me because you honestly can't.

Direckshun
09-28-2009, 02:53 PM
You continue to posit that conservatives have offered no alternate solutions.

So, these people must be judging this idea against the current state of affairs, since no alternative solutions exist for them to judge it against.

Nah, it's approval ratings. I doubt the fact that whatever percentage of people that disapprove of Obama means that they want Bush back. It means they want something else.

wild1
09-28-2009, 02:57 PM
Nah, it's approval ratings. I doubt the fact that whatever percentage of people that disapprove of Obama means that they want Bush back. It means they want something else.

The poll is about his health care plan. 41% would like to see those changes made to the current state. The rest do not.

Saul Good
09-28-2009, 07:53 PM
The poll is about his health care plan. 41% would like to see those changes made to the current state. The rest do not.

41% is greatly inflated as well. There is no chance that 3 out of 4 Democrats support the plan. I would say that only a slight majority of Democrats support the plan. However, the rest of them support the idea of reform and/or Obama enough to answer "yes" to the pollster so as not hurt the Dems in general.

The more educated the respondent is on the issue, the more likely they are to break with their party lines. If you ask the average Democrat whether they support Obama on "X", they will probably answer in the affirmative even if they have no idea what "X" is all about. The converse is true of Republicans and their opposition to Obama. It's human nature. The difference here is that Democrats are shifting their support away from it faster than Republicans and Independents are gravitating towards it.

KCWolfman
09-28-2009, 08:02 PM
I know you love to victimize yourselves here but ya'll have done little to nothing to promote your alternate ideas, so much as your energy has been spent trying to blow up Obama's proposals rather than reform them.

Even you can't bring yourself to describe them. You have to google and have links explain them to me because you honestly can't.

You ask for the ideas, I give you direct links, then you bitch that I gave you links instead of dissecting them for you?

I honestly thought you may be giving interesting discourse but honestly you come off like a lap dog. I almost feel bad for you.

Read up if you want, I have given you the info you ask for. If not, no sweat off my brow, I just know that you don't want discussion, you just have an abnormal desire to be right even when you know you aren't.
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Saul Good
09-28-2009, 08:11 PM
I know you love to victimize yourselves here but ya'll have done little to nothing to promote your alternate ideas, so much as your energy has been spent trying to blow up Obama's proposals rather than reform them.

Who would have thought that a party without control of any branch of government would have to resort to mitigating the damage rather than trying to advance their own agenda?

RINGLEADER
09-28-2009, 08:45 PM
Chances are if the 41% knew what the bill actually proposed to do they'd like it even less.

Saul Good
09-28-2009, 08:52 PM
Chances are if the 41% knew what the bill actually proposed to do they'd like it even less.

I don't think that 41% of the liberals on this board support it, yet they still defend it. It's interesting to watch.

RINGLEADER
09-29-2009, 09:01 AM
I don't think that 41% of the liberals on this board support it, yet they still defend it. It's interesting to watch.

True.

It is fun to see the hard left deny certain things then have the White House come out and agree to take those very things out of the bill (or put them in as the case may be). Coverage for illegals. Coverage for abortion. How paying taxes for ten years for a program that operates for six can be deemed "deficit neutral". It's indefensible.

The fact that only 33% of seniors now support the plan would typically be enough to kill a bill like this but the Democrats are too close to their dream. They've waited too long to pass universal health care. They can taste it -- the opinions of the "people" be damned.

HonestChieffan
09-29-2009, 09:21 AM
Watching the far left congresscritters and Obama as they hold tight to this thing is akin to the band playing on the Titanic as it sank. They cannot see the destuction they will bring on the democrat party and liberalism in general for years to come.

InChiefsHell
09-30-2009, 07:00 AM
The fact that only 33% of seniors now support the plan would typically be enough to kill a bill like this but the Democrats are too close to their dream. They've waited too long to pass universal health care. They can taste it -- the opinions of the "people" be damned.

That's because the people are ill informed and stupid, and lets face it, we don't know what's good for us. Add to that the vast right wing conspiracy to mis-inform us, and Obama and his ilk have every obligation to shove this down our throats...

...they must save us from ourselves. I'm sure they are in their little ivory towers now saying, "Forgive them Obama, they know not why they protest".

***SPRAYER
09-30-2009, 07:27 AM
Watching the far left congresscritters and Obama as they hold tight to this thing is akin to the band playing on the Titanic as it sank. They cannot see the destuction they will bring on the democrat party and liberalism in general for years to come.

"Moscow... we were this close." - Hitler