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KILLER_CLOWN
09-29-2009, 02:11 PM
H1N1 Swine Flu Vaccine Insert Admits It Causes Guillain-Barre Syndrome, Vasculitis, Paralysis, Anaphylactic Shock And Death

Bird Flu Pandemic
Tuesday, Sept 29th, 2009

The package insert for the Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine manufactured by Novartis has been leaked on the Internet. According to that package insert, the vaccine (based on an earlier vaccine product known as Fluvirin) is known to cause a whole host of very nasty side effects such as guillain-barre syndrome, vasculitis, anaphylactic shock and even death.

Of course anyone who has been studying vaccine side effects already knows that it causes all of these things, but the story here is that the insert for the swine flu vaccine itself is admitting all of these things. The insert says that it was updated during September 2009, so it reflects the very latest information.

You can read the package insert for this vaccine for yourself right here…..

http://www.fluscam.com/Vaccine_Package_Inserts_files/Novartis_A-H1N1_2009_Monvalent_VaccinePackageInsert_BasedOn1980Approvalfor%20Fluvirin_UCM182242.pdf

The following is a list of some of the very nasty side effects that the vaccine package insert admits to…..

*Local injection site reactions (including pain, pain limiting limb movement, redness, swelling, warmth, ecchymosis, induration)
*Hot flashes/flushes
*Chills
*Fever
*Malaise
*Shivering
*Fatigue
*Asthenia
*Facial edema.
*Immune system disorders
*Hypersensitivity reactions (including throat and/or mouth edema)
*In rare cases, hypersensitivity reactions have lead to anaphylactic shock and death
*Cardiovascular disorders
*Vasculitis (in rare cases with transient renal involvement)
*Syncope shortly after vaccination
*Digestive disorders
*Diarrhea
*Nausea
*Vomiting
*Abdominal pain.
*Blood and lymphatic disorders
*Local lymphadenopathy
*Transient thrombocytopenia.
*Metabolic and nutritional disorders
*Loss of appetite.
*Arthralgia
*Myalgia
*Myasthenia
*Nervous system disorders
*Headache
*Dizziness
*Neuralgia
*Paraesthesia
*Febrile convulsions
*Guillain-Barré Syndrome
*Myelitis (including encephalomyelitis and transverse myelitis)
*Neuropathy (including neuritis)
*Paralysis (including Bell’s Palsy)
*Respiratory disorders
*Dyspnea
*Chest pain
*Cough
*Pharyngitis
*Rhinitis
*Stevens-Johnson syndrome
*Pruritus
*Urticaria
*Rash (including non-specific, maculopapular, and vesiculobulbous).

Doesn’t all that sound wonderful?

Doesn’t that make you want to run out and sign up to get vaccinated?

Now keep in mind that this is just what the H1N1 swine flu vaccine insert admits to.

What else will this vaccine do to you if you take it?

That is something to think about my friends.

So is there anything that you can do to protect yourself if you are forced to take the swine flu vaccine?

Yes, there most certainly is.

Dr. Russell Blaylock is an expert on vaccines and their side effects, and he has distributed a list of things that you can do to reduce the nasty side effects of the swine flu vaccine…..

http://www.resistnet.com/forum/topics/how-to-reduce-the-toxic

Dr Blaylock’s List of suggestions on How to Reduce the Toxic Effects of the A/H1N1 Vaccine, is as follows:

1. Number one on the list says Dr Blaylock, is to bring a cold pack with you and place it on the site of the injection as soon as you can, as this will block the immune reaction. Once you get home, continue using a cold pack throughout the day. If you continue to have immune reactions the following day, have cold showers and continue with the cold press.

2. Take fish oil. Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), one of the omega 3 fatty acids found in fish oil supplements, is a potent immune suppressant. If you take high dose EPA you will be more susceptible to infections, because it is a powerful immune suppressant. However, in the case of an immune adjuvant reaction, you want to reduce it. Studies show that if you take EPA oil one hour before injecting a very powerful adjuvant called lipopolysaccharide (LPS), it would completely block the ability of the LPS to cause brain inflammation. Take a moderate dose everyday and more if needed to tame a cytokine storm.

3. Flavonoids are third on the list, namely curcumin, quercetin, ferulic acid and ellagic acid, particularly in a mixture. The curcumin and quercetin in particular have been found to block the ability of the adjuvants to trigger a long-term immune reaction. If you take it an hour before the vaccination, it should help dampen the immune reactions says Dr Blaylock.

4. Vitamin E, the natural form that is high in gamma-E will help dampen the immune reactions and reduces several of the inflammatory cytokines.

5. An important ingredient on the list is Vitamin C at a dose of 1000 mg, taken four times a day between meals. It is a very potent anti-inflammatory and should be taken in a buffered form, not as absorbic acid, says Dr Blaylock.

6. Also use astaxanthin as it’s an anti-inflammatory. According to Dr Blaylock, fatal reactions to vaccines in aboriginal and African children occurred in those who were deficient in carotinoids, like astaxanthin. It is a good protection against the toxic effects of the vaccine.

7. Likewise, it was found that children who were deficient in zinc had a high mortality rate. Zinc is very protective against vaccine toxicity. (Do not use zinc mixed with copper however, as copper is a major trigger of free-radical generation according to Dr Blaylock).

8. Ensure you avoid all immune-stimulating supplements, such as mushroom extracts, whey protein and beta-glucan.

9. Take a multivitamin-mineral daily one that does not contain iron. This multivitamin-mineral is to make sure your body has plenty of B vitamins and selenium. Selenium, said Dr Blaylock, is very important for fighting viral infections and it reduces the inflammatory response to vaccines.

10. Magnesium citrate/malate 500 mg of elemental magnesium two capsules, three times a day. (This was not mentioned during the show, but was posted at Dr Deagle’s website, ClayandIron.com).

11. What is very important is vitamin D3, which is the only ‘vitamin’ the body can manufacture from sunlight (UVB). It is a neural hormone, not really a vitamin says Dr Blaylock and helps if you are over-reacting immunologically by cooling down the reaction. Similarly, if you are under-reacting, it helps to boost your immune response. In addition it also protects against microorganism invasion.

Black people and those in colder climates are particularly deficient, so they will almost certainly require supplementation.

Dr Blaylock recommends that following vaccination it will help to keep the immune reaction under control if:

i) All children get 5,000 units a day for two weeks after the vaccine and then 2,000 a units a day thereafter;

ii) Adults get 20,000 units a day after the vaccine for two weeks, then 10,000 units a day thereafter;

iii) And with that adults should take 500-1000 mg of calcium a day and children under the age of 12 years should take 250 mg a day, as vitamin D works more efficiently in the presence of calcium.

12. Ensure you avoid all mercury-containing seafood or any other sources of mercury, as the heavy metal is a very powerful inducer of autoimmunity, is known to make people more susceptible to viral infections and will be in H1N1 vaccines.

13. Avoid the oils that significantly suppress immunity and increase inflammation – such as corn, safflower, sunflower, soybean, canola and peanut oils.

14. Drink very concentrated white tea at least four times a day. It helps to prevent abnormal immune reactions.

15. Pop parsley and celery in a blender and drink 8 ounces of this mixture twice a day. Dr Blaylock says the parsley is very high in a flavonoid called apigenin and that celery is high in luteolin. Both are very potent in inhibiting autoimmune diseases, particularly the apigenin, so go and plant some parsley in your garden now.

So what can we learn from all of this?

First of all, if you blindly trust that the swine flu vaccine or even the regular seasonal flu vaccine is perfectly safe, then you are being completely and totally reckless.

The reality is that no vaccine is 100% safe.

Before you ever let someone stick a needle in your arm, do some serious research and find out about these things for yourself.

After you get vaccinated, you are responsible if something goes wrong. If you develop some really nasty side effects, nobody is going to pay for it.

Thanks to the government, you will not be able to sue anyone for harm you receive from the swine flu vaccine. If it destroys your health you are out of luck.

Secondly, if you have taken a flu vaccine, there are some things you can do. Take Dr. Blaylock’s suggestions seriously. The human body is an incredible healing machine if you give it the materials that it needs.

If you have any other information about the swine flu vaccine, mandatory vaccinations or flu pandemic planning please leave a comment and let us know. This is shaping up to be a very interesting winter, and hopefully we can all get through this as healthy as possible.

http://thebirdflupandemic.com/

Silock
09-29-2009, 02:27 PM
Retarded list. If you want to make another comparison, post up all the different things that ibuprofen and acetominophen can cause. It's basically the same list.

wild1
09-29-2009, 02:40 PM
So when do the forced administrations start? I'm looking forward to my nanomachines.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-29-2009, 02:40 PM
Retarded list. If you want to make another comparison, post up all the different things that ibuprofen and acetominophen can cause. It's basically the same list.

BS.

HonestChieffan
09-29-2009, 02:41 PM
do we get our chips then too?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-29-2009, 02:41 PM
So when do the forced administrations start? I'm looking forward to my nanomachines.

They've already started through color of law many Health care facilities are making their staff take it.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-29-2009, 02:43 PM
do we get our chips then too?

I'm sure there is already a line forming.

KCWolfman
09-29-2009, 02:43 PM
They've already started through color of law many Health care facilities are making their staff take it.

Including staff with non-patient contact.

wild1
09-29-2009, 02:43 PM
They've already started through color of law many Health care facilities are making their staff take it.

You don't say.

banyon
09-29-2009, 02:43 PM
do we get our chips then too?

Sea Salt and Vinegar, please.

HonestChieffan
09-29-2009, 02:45 PM
I read that rubbing greek oregano on your forehead will stop all the side effects

KILLER_CLOWN
09-29-2009, 02:45 PM
Sea Salt and Vinegar, please.

LOL i have a bag right here!

KILLER_CLOWN
09-29-2009, 02:45 PM
I read that rubbing greek oregano on your forehead will stop all the side effects

HCF you're starting to sound like an obamanite now.

HonestChieffan
09-29-2009, 02:47 PM
HCF you're starting to sound like an obamanite now.


Thems fighting words.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-29-2009, 02:55 PM
Thems fighting words.

So i have your word you won't be appearing in videos singing praise to obama?

petegz28
09-29-2009, 02:57 PM
Retarded list. If you want to make another comparison, post up all the different things that ibuprofen and acetominophen can cause. It's basically the same list.

No one is forcing you to take those though, now are they?

banyon
09-29-2009, 03:00 PM
No one is forcing you to take those though, now are they?

Who is being forced to take this?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-29-2009, 03:02 PM
Who is being forced to take this?

Health care workers? I guess they don't have to if they want to go back to school for a different career.

wild1
09-29-2009, 03:03 PM
I read that rubbing greek oregano on your forehead will stop all the side effects

You laugh about this stuff, but...

petegz28
09-29-2009, 03:16 PM
Who is being forced to take this?

If you are really asking this question you have been walking around with your head in the sand.

petegz28
09-29-2009, 03:17 PM
Health care workers? I guess they don't have to if they want to go back to school for a different career.

I believe teachers as well are going to be forced.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-29-2009, 03:21 PM
I believe teachers as well are going to be forced.

I've seen quite a few stories about teachers as well as the Military of course whom seem to be guinea pigs for these deadly concoctions.

wild1
09-29-2009, 03:31 PM
Health care workers? I guess they don't have to if they want to go back to school for a different career.

There are always different degrees of "required".

banyon
09-29-2009, 04:11 PM
I believe teachers as well are going to be forced.

Do you guys have actual proof of this, or just the usual rumor and innuendo?

(from somewhere besides prisonplanet.com, preferably)

jiveturkey
09-29-2009, 04:23 PM
How does this list compare to the side effects of the regular flu shot?

I've been getting the regular flu shot for years and after the initial day or feeling mildly shitty I haven't experienced any side effects.

alnorth
09-29-2009, 04:34 PM
On the issue of side-effects, here are a few more.

Heartburn
nausea
upset stomach
rash
hives
itching
difficulty breathing
tightness in the chest
swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue
black or bloody stools
confusion
diarrhea
dizziness
drowsiness
hearing loss
ringing in the ears
severe or persistent stomach pain
unusual bruising
vomiting

This horrible medicine is a bizarre dangerous poison called "aspirin"

BucEyedPea
09-29-2009, 04:43 PM
On the issue of side-effects, here are a few more.

Heartburn
nausea
upset stomach
rash
hives
itching
difficulty breathing
tightness in the chest
swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue
black or bloody stools
confusion
diarrhea
dizziness
drowsiness
hearing loss
ringing in the ears
severe or persistent stomach pain
unusual bruising
vomiting

This horrible medicine is a bizarre dangerous poison called "aspirin"

Yeah so teens use Tylenol to commit suicide which emergency rooms know about too. Why? Because it's toxic.

Tylenol is the leading cause of liver failure

arstechnica.com — Acetaminophen/paracetamol (AKA Tylenol) is the leading cause of acute liver failure. The number of cases doubled between 1998 and 2003—which I find interesting, because over the last several years, regular strength (325mg) Tylenol has been gradually disappearing in favor of the extra-strength (500mg) varieties.

This is true even at recommended dosages. Too much aspirin is also toxic. All drugs are. There are certain times some drugs save lives and the downsides outweigh the good. But a vaccine being pushed, to make money, based on exaggerated scare tactics is not one of them.

However, a study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that even at recommended doses, the drug shows signs of causing organ damage.
http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/06/11/22/the_toxic_risks_of_acetaminophen_every_consumer_should_know.htm

BTW from years of migraines I nearly ruined my own liver which was bordering cirrosis.

BucEyedPea
09-29-2009, 05:00 PM
Today aspirin is a household word, and while some believe it should retain its reputation as a miracle drug, others think aspirin may not be as safe or worthwhile as it's touted to be.

Aspirin Has Serious Side Effects

With all of these benefits, one gets the impression that most everyone could benefit from popping an aspirin daily. And while the general consensus is that people who have heart disease or have had a heart attack in the past very well could benefit from regular low-dose aspirin, and certainly anyone having a heart attack could benefit from quickly swallowing the drug, the advice for healthy individuals is not so clear cut.

"Although taking aspirin leads to a wealth of potential health benefits for adults, people should realize that even a baby aspirin is not free of dangerous side effects," Fendrick said.

aspirin

Aspirin should not be given to children and teenagers because of the risk of Reye's Syndrome, a potentially fatal disease.

The risks must be weighed against the potential benefits, and, according to the Food and Drug Administration's Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, "the risks of long-term aspirin use may be greater than the benefits if there are no signs of, or risk factors for, heart or blood vessel disease."

http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/06/07/12/aspirin_what_are_the_benefits_what_are_the_risks.htm

KILLER_CLOWN
09-29-2009, 05:10 PM
Do you guys have actual proof of this, or just the usual rumor and innuendo?

(from somewhere besides prisonplanet.com, preferably)

well how about newsday there Mr. MSM only believer.

NY to get first swine flu vaccine doses next week

September 29, 2009 By The Associated Press

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — New York state will get its first doses of swine flu vaccine next week, with many reserved for health care workers, some of whom oppose the mandatory inoculations.

Upstate New York will be getting about 100,000 doses. New York City health officials don't yet know how many would be supplied to them.

In the first round, the vaccine will be made available to those the Centers for Disease Control's considers at high risk. That includes health care workers, pregnant women, children and young adults and people between ages 25 and 64 who have health conditions that could lead to medical complications from the flu.

New York is the first state to mandate flu vaccinations for health care workers.

Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://www.newsday.com/news/new-york/ny-to-get-first-swine-flu-vaccine-doses-next-week-1.1485160

KILLER_CLOWN
09-29-2009, 05:30 PM
Evidence emerges that seasonal flu vaccine increases risk of H1N1 swine flu

Friday, September 25, 2009 by: Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, NaturalNews Editor
Key concepts: Vaccines, H1N1 and Flu shot
View on NaturalPedia: Vaccines, H1N1 and Flu shot


(NaturalNews) To hear it from the vaccine makers, their vaccines are perfectly safe and have no side effects. A person can receive an unlimited number of vaccines (10, 100 or even 1000) and have absolutely no ill effects, they claim. This is the quack science mythology upon which mass vaccination policies are currently based. But new evidence is emerging that people receiving a seasonal flu shot are made more susceptible to H1N1 swine flu as a result.

CBC News in Canada is now reporting disturbing findings you need to know about: "Four Canadian studies involved about 2,000 people, health officials told CBC News. Researchers found people who had received the seasonal flu vaccine in the past were more likely to get sick with the H1N1 virus."

The story doesn't cite the percentage increase in H1N1 virus risk, but it's apparently enough to give pause to many doctors and infectious disease experts. "We don't know with this year's flu shot how it interacts with the pandemic flu shot, so it's a worry," said Dr. Michael Gardam in the CBC News article quoted below. He's the director of infectious diseases prevention and control at the Ontario Agency for Health Protection and Promotion.

The upshot of all this is that Canadian health officials are now scratching their heads, wondering whether the seasonal flu vaccines will actually make the H1N1 pandemic worse!

It's fascinating that this data is coming out of Canada, not the U.S. In the United States, the mainstream media has engaged in a virtual blackout of any information that questions the safety of vaccines, even while openly pushing outrageous lies about the swine flu vaccine http://www.naturalnews.com/027055_swine_flu_vaccines_swine_flu_vaccine.html

Vaccines weaken your immune system http://www.naturalnews.com/immune_system.html

What this information reveals is further evidence that flu shots damage or weaken your immune system, making you more susceptible to subsequent infections. Flu shots don't even work to reduce your risk of getting the flu that they're targeting! Most people who get the flu are the very same people who routinely receive flu shots.

This will hold true with H1N1 swine flu as well: The people getting the swine flu virus will be primarily those who routinely receive flu vaccinations.

You know why? Because a flu shot trains your immune system to be lazy. It exposes your immune technology to an artificially weakened virus, resulting in a lazy adaptive response from your immune technology. In much the same way that your leg muscles atrophy if you stop walking, your immune system begins to weaken if you don't exercise it. And this leads to an increased risk of being unable to defend against future exposure to infectious disease, which is exactly what we're seeing with this Canadian study.

Vaccines are the quackery of modern medicine. They not only don't work to protect people from the diseases they target; they also increase the risk of being infected with other diseases. And that doesn't even include the ways in which vaccine ingredients (adjuvants or preservatives) can cause permanent damage to your nervous system.

http://www.naturalnews.com/flu_shots.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/infections.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/the_flu.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/swine_flu.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/disease.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/modern_medicine.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/027102_vaccines_H1N1_flu_shot.html

banyon
09-29-2009, 05:54 PM
well how about newsday there Mr. MSM only believer.

NY to get first swine flu vaccine doses next week

September 29, 2009 By The Associated Press

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — New York state will get its first doses of swine flu vaccine next week, with many reserved for health care workers, some of whom oppose the mandatory inoculations.

Upstate New York will be getting about 100,000 doses. New York City health officials don't yet know how many would be supplied to them.

In the first round, the vaccine will be made available to those the Centers for Disease Control's considers at high risk. That includes health care workers, pregnant women, children and young adults and people between ages 25 and 64 who have health conditions that could lead to medical complications from the flu.

New York is the first state to mandate flu vaccinations for health care workers.

Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://www.newsday.com/news/new-york/ny-to-get-first-swine-flu-vaccine-doses-next-week-1.1485160

That appears to be a New York State decision limited to health care workers, correct?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-29-2009, 06:05 PM
That appears to be a New York State decision limited to health care workers, correct?

Yes what else would you like me to dig up?

banyon
09-29-2009, 06:23 PM
Yes what else would you like me to dig up?

Nothing. If you have nothing else, then it would appear your earlier post implying that the federal government was going to mandate them for everyone was a little bit of an overreach.

You're aware that health care workers in particular are regularly required to undergo all manner of innoculations for the health and safety of the patient population they treat, right?


So when do the forced administrations start? I'm looking forward to my nanomachines.

They've already started [i.e., they will "finish"]through color of law many Health care facilities are making their staff take it

KILLER_CLOWN
09-29-2009, 06:56 PM
Nothing. If you have nothing else, then it would appear your earlier post implying that the federal government was going to mandate them for everyone was a little bit of an overreach.

You're aware that health care workers in particular are regularly required to undergo all manner of innoculations for the health and safety of the patient population they treat, right?

The Federal government sure is pushing it towards the states, and you wonder why i don't trust the medical establishment.

wild1
09-29-2009, 07:17 PM
The word came down today from the policy-setters at the organization of my concern, it will be strongly encouraged but for no one will it be required.

The bulk of our supply is supposed to arrive next week. I'm hearing that mercury-free preparations will be available but may be in short supply to start.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-29-2009, 09:01 PM
The word came down today from the policy-setters at the organization of my concern, it will be strongly encouraged but for no one will it be required.

The bulk of our supply is supposed to arrive next week. I'm hearing that mercury-free preparations will be available but may be in short supply to start.

Nice what state are you in if you don't mind me asking?

KCWolfman
09-30-2009, 01:53 AM
That appears to be a New York State decision limited to health care workers, correct?

Not just healthcare workers. Workers in a healthcare setting. This includes file clerks, data entry operators, managers, maintenance crews, cafeteria workers, laundry personnel, information technology employees, etc etc. who never have ANY contact with a patient.

KCWolfman
09-30-2009, 01:54 AM
Nothing. If you have nothing else, then it would appear your earlier post implying that the federal government was going to mandate them for everyone was a little bit of an overreach.

You're aware that health care workers in particular are regularly required to undergo all manner of innoculations for the health and safety of the patient population they treat, right?

Not 100% accurate. I was offered testing for tuberculosis if I so desired. As I did not work directly with patients, I wasn't required. The wording of the law noted by KC does not exclude employees like me.

wild1
09-30-2009, 07:37 AM
Nice what state are you in if you don't mind me asking?

This is an organizational policy, not some kind of decree from the state.

HonestChieffan
09-30-2009, 08:17 AM
Its a flu shot. Amazing what people can come up with when they really work at it.

tooge
09-30-2009, 09:43 AM
BS.

nope, not bs. I have a PDR (physicians desk reference) right in front of me. here is your list of "significant adverse effects" listed for acetominophen.

Rash
anemia
blood dyscrasias
neutropenia
pancytopenia
leukopenia
increased ammonia (renal)
nephrotoxicity
nephropathy
increased uric acid
hypoinsulinism
decreased sodium

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 09:51 AM
nope, not bs. I have a PDR (physicians desk reference) right in front of me. here is your list of "significant adverse effects" listed for acetominophen.

Rash
anemia
blood dyscrasias
neutropenia
pancytopenia
leukopenia
increased ammonia (renal)
nephrotoxicity
nephropathy
increased uric acid
hypoinsulinism
decreased sodium

Bad but not as bad as the adverse reactions from the toxins directly administered into the blood via vaccines. I don't take aspirin, acetominophen, or ibuprofen anyways because i haven't needed them for years since i switched my diet and started taking supplements i haven't had an ache or pain.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 09:52 AM
This is an organizational policy, not some kind of decree from the state.

So why did New York mandate the policy?

tooge
09-30-2009, 10:35 AM
Bad but not as bad as the adverse reactions from the toxins directly administered into the blood via vaccines. I don't take aspirin, acetominophen, or ibuprofen anyways because i haven't needed them for years since i switched my diet and started taking supplements i haven't had an ache or pain.

I'd type out the aspirin for ya, but it would take waaaay to long. The PDR has 75 significant adverse reactions to aspirin. Just sayin, you can spin this anyway you want, but using your logic, I could start a thread about how bad aspirin is and how there must be some conspiracy because the govt. is telling everyone to take one a day. They must be trying to kill us all

banyon
09-30-2009, 10:36 AM
Not just healthcare workers. Workers in a healthcare setting. This includes file clerks, data entry operators, managers, maintenance crews, cafeteria workers, laundry personnel, information technology employees, etc etc. who never have ANY contact with a patient.

So what? Don't they have regular contact with the people who do have direct contact with the patients?

I guess this doesn't seem like an unreasonable precaution to me for a widespread outbreak like this.

wild1
09-30-2009, 10:37 AM
So why did New York mandate the policy?

How would I know?

banyon
09-30-2009, 10:39 AM
The Federal government sure is pushing it towards the states, and you wonder why i don't trust the medical establishment.

Huh? What proof do you have of that?

Silock
09-30-2009, 12:36 PM
Bad but not as bad as the adverse reactions from the toxins directly administered into the blood via vaccines. I don't take aspirin, acetominophen, or ibuprofen anyways because i haven't needed them for years since i switched my diet and started taking supplements i haven't had an ache or pain.

You've NEVER had an ache or pain since? I don't buy it. What supplements do you take?

I'm only 28, and take regular supplements doses, but still get headaches and aches and pains. Of course, most of my pains are from regular physical activity, like weightlifting and soccer, but still. I don't buy it.

Silock
09-30-2009, 12:38 PM
So what? Don't they have regular contact with the people who do have direct contact with the patients?

I guess this doesn't seem like an unreasonable precaution to me for a widespread outbreak like this.

I'm on the fence about it. On the one hand, I don't believe there's some kind of government conspiracy to give everyone GB and vasculitis.

On the other hand, I don't think the vaccination is necessary at ALL. My wife had swine flu last week, and even after sleeping in the same bed and being "intimate" a few times, I still didn't catch it. I did up my Vitamin D doses when she started getting sick, but still.

I don't think flu vaccinations are necessary.

KCWolfman
09-30-2009, 12:38 PM
So what? Don't they have regular contact with the people who do have direct contact with the patients?

I guess this doesn't seem like an unreasonable precaution to me for a widespread outbreak like this.

It is unreasonable.

Using your logic, the diner across the street from a hospital should have all employees inoculated for the same reason.

banyon
09-30-2009, 01:28 PM
It is unreasonable.

Using your logic, the diner across the street from a hospital should have all employees inoculated for the same reason.

No, that would not be using my logic. 1 degree of separation is prudent, 50 may not be.

KCWolfman
09-30-2009, 01:58 PM
No, that would not be using my logic. 1 degree of separation is prudent, 50 may not be.
50 degrees?

I promise you when I worked as a medical records manager I had less contact with patients, their families, and providers than th McDonalds across the street.
Posted via Mobile Device

banyon
09-30-2009, 02:12 PM
50 degrees?

I promise you when I worked as a medical records manager I had less contact with patients, their families, and providers than th McDonalds across the street.
Posted via Mobile Device

The state doesn't regulate McDonalds as part of its viral/disease control medical strategy, and rightfully it does not.

Medical staff should be cognizant of what field they chose to work in.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 02:53 PM
You've NEVER had an ache or pain since? I don't buy it. What supplements do you take?

I'm only 28, and take regular supplements doses, but still get headaches and aches and pains. Of course, most of my pains are from regular physical activity, like weightlifting and soccer, but still. I don't buy it.

I no longer get headaches or body aches even working out, yes i still get drained from working out but i never have pains.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 02:54 PM
The state doesn't regulate McDonalds as part of its viral/disease control medical strategy, and rightfully it does not.

Medical staff should be cognizant of what field they chose to work in.

The state has no business telling people they have to be vaccinated.

Silock
09-30-2009, 03:09 PM
I no longer get headaches or body aches even working out, yes i still get drained from working out but i never have pains.

Again, what supplements?

banyon
09-30-2009, 04:32 PM
The state has no business telling people they have to be vaccinated.

Why not? Because you have paranoid fantasies about it?

What about soldiers that enter combat zones with known epidemiological outbreaks?

wild1
09-30-2009, 05:15 PM
Well, soldiers are government employees submitting to be governed by the agreement they made. Same as any of us with our employers if we have such a relationship.

banyon
09-30-2009, 06:29 PM
Well, soldiers are government employees submitting to be governed by the agreement they made. Same as any of us with our employers if we have such a relationship.

Don't doctors take an oath?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 08:28 PM
Why not? Because you have paranoid fantasies about it?

What about soldiers that enter combat zones with known epidemiological outbreaks?

You're the one living in a fantasy land thinking oversight is the fox guarding the henhouse. Also your 2nd statement is fantasy.

banyon
09-30-2009, 08:30 PM
You're the one living in a fantasy land thinking oversight is the fox guarding the henhouse. Also your 2nd statement is fantasy.

Insult without addressing my post noted.

As to the 2nd statement, why is it a fantasy?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 08:36 PM
Insult without addressing my post noted.

As to the 2nd statement, why is it a fantasy?

an insult? no you were the accuser of fantasy worlds i only pointed out that maybe it was the mirror you were looking in. On your 2nd point please point out where the vaccinations were needed by our troops? Ever heard of gulf war syndrome? Vaccine related.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 08:42 PM
Bonuses, Pay Raises Cut For Hospital Employees Who Refuse Mercury Laced Swine Flu Vaccine

More hospitals, clinics move to make H1N1 shot mandatory

Steve Watson
Infowars.net
Wednesday, Sept 30, 2009

Bonuses, Pay Raises Cut For Hospital Employees Who Refuse Mercury Laced Swine Flu Vaccine 300909swine Employees at a hospital in Ohio have been told that their bonuses will be cut and their salaries frozen should they refuse to be vaccinated with both the seasonal flu shot and the H1N1 flu shot.

The Nationwide Children’s Hospital in Columbus, Ohio, has instigated a mandate on all workers to receive the shots by the end of October.

The threat of pay cuts was delivered in a hospital memo stating that employees with medical or religious objections could opt out, but that those who refuse the treatments will lose out on pay raises or bonuses.

A senior Doctor at the hospital, Dennis Cunningham dismissed claims that the program was extreme, and also attempted to counter concerns that the vaccines contain mercury in the form of the thimerosal preservative.

“Multi-dose vials … there will be a trace in there. It acts as a preservative. No bacteria in there, and it’s kept sterile. But the level is so low, it wouldn’t cause disease in humans,” Cunningham claimed.

However, the Institute of Medicine recommended against the policy of thimerosal containing vaccines in 2001.

Studies have shown a direct relationship between mercury in children’s vaccines and autism. Further studies have shown a decline in neurodevelopmental disorders after the removal of thimerosal-containing vaccines. The preservative has been banned or limited in Europe, Japan, England and Russia. Furthermore, there are no reported instances of autism amongst religious groups such as the Amish community and very few instances are reported in the third world.

Autism was a practically unknown affliction some decades back, but now one in every 150 children is affected.

Mercury is the second most toxic metal known to man behind Uranium. Thimerosal is used in vaccines not because it is good for you, but purely because it prevents vaccine contamination. Yet some have questioned why thimerosal is even considered for vaccines because there are obviously safer alternatives to preventing contamination.

Many believe the only reason it is still in vaccines is that it allows substantial savings for pharmaceutical companies. Questions also remain about how those companies conduct vaccine research and how the government regulates them.

In other states, officials have suspended the limits on the mercury preservative in H1N1 vaccines scheduled to be provided to children and pregnant women, in a rush to mass vaccinate the population.

The following report on this story comes from NBC4 News:

<object width="429" height="295"><param name="movie" value="http://vp.mgnetwork.net/viewer.swf?u=3d5b370eff14102cbc4d001ec92a4a0d&z=CMH" ></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://vp.mgnetwork.net/viewer.swf?u=3d5b370eff14102cbc4d001ec92a4a0d&z=CMH" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="429" height="295"></embed></object>

Last week we reported a on similar story out of Albany, New York, where a daycare worker employed by Northeast Health was shocked to be told by her boss that she would be fired if she refused to take a seasonal swine flu shot on the spot.

Though New York is a focal point, with new State laws recently passed mandating vaccination for health care workers, the same scenario has since unfolded nationwide, with health workers across the country now revolting in protest as more and more hospitals and clinics are moving to instigate mandatory vaccination polices.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006/030306_b_mercury.htm

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006/020306Neurodevelopmental.htm

http://www.infowars.com/articles/science/autism_none_for_unvaccinated_amish.htm

http://www.talkaboutcuringautism.org/autism/latest_autism_statistics.htm

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/october2004/201004fivetimes.htm

http://www.doh.wa.gov/Publicat/2009_news/09-154.htm

http://www2.nbc4i.com/cmh/news/local/article/local_hospital_no_flu_vaccine_no_pay_raise/24055/

http://www.prisonplanet.com/daycare-worker-told-shell-be-fired-for-refusing-mandatory-flu-shot.html

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420ap_wa_flu_shots.html

http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/1797828,CST-NWS-flu30.article

http://www.infowars.net/index.html

banyon
09-30-2009, 08:43 PM
an insult? no you were the accuser of fantasy worlds i only pointed out that maybe it was the mirror you were looking in. On your 2nd point please point out where the vaccinations were needed by our troops? Ever heard of gulf war syndrome? Vaccine related.

:spock:ROFL

So, if our troops had to enter a combat zone with a new airborne strain of polio which is easily preventable by vaccine, your answer would be: a)expose them to an easily preventable disease because vaccines are a fraud perpetrated upon us by the Reptilian/Bilderbergs/Illuminati b) allow soldiers to refuse innoculation and entry into the zone and undermine our defense readiness or ability to fight the conflict, or c) throw up the white flag of surrender because the choice is too difficult?

banyon
09-30-2009, 08:44 PM
Bonuses, Pay Raises Cut For Hospital Employees Who Refuse Mercury Laced Swine Flu Vaccine

More hospitals, clinics move to make H1N1 shot mandatory

Steve Watson
Infowars.net
Wednesday, Sept 30, 2009

Bonuses, Pay Raises Cut For Hospital Employees Who Refuse Mercury Laced Swine Flu Vaccine 300909swine Employees at a hospital in Ohio have been told that their bonuses will be cut and their salaries frozen should they refuse to be vaccinated with both the seasonal flu shot and the H1N1 flu shot.

The Nationwide Children’s Hospital in Columbus, Ohio, has instigated a mandate on all workers to receive the shots by the end of October.

The threat of pay cuts was delivered in a hospital memo stating that employees with medical or religious objections could opt out, but that those who refuse the treatments will lose out on pay raises or bonuses.

A senior Doctor at the hospital, Dennis Cunningham dismissed claims that the program was extreme, and also attempted to counter concerns that the vaccines contain mercury in the form of the thimerosal preservative.

“Multi-dose vials … there will be a trace in there. It acts as a preservative. No bacteria in there, and it’s kept sterile. But the level is so low, it wouldn’t cause disease in humans,” Cunningham claimed.

However, the Institute of Medicine recommended against the policy of thimerosal containing vaccines in 2001.

Studies have shown a direct relationship between mercury in children’s vaccines and autism. Further studies have shown a decline in neurodevelopmental disorders after the removal of thimerosal-containing vaccines. The preservative has been banned or limited in Europe, Japan, England and Russia. Furthermore, there are no reported instances of autism amongst religious groups such as the Amish community and very few instances are reported in the third world.

Autism was a practically unknown affliction some decades back, but now one in every 150 children is affected.

Mercury is the second most toxic metal known to man behind Uranium. Thimerosal is used in vaccines not because it is good for you, but purely because it prevents vaccine contamination. Yet some have questioned why thimerosal is even considered for vaccines because there are obviously safer alternatives to preventing contamination.

Many believe the only reason it is still in vaccines is that it allows substantial savings for pharmaceutical companies. Questions also remain about how those companies conduct vaccine research and how the government regulates them.

In other states, officials have suspended the limits on the mercury preservative in H1N1 vaccines scheduled to be provided to children and pregnant women, in a rush to mass vaccinate the population.

The following report on this story comes from NBC4 News:

<object width="429" height="295"><param name="movie" value="http://vp.mgnetwork.net/viewer.swf?u=3d5b370eff14102cbc4d001ec92a4a0d&z=CMH" ></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://vp.mgnetwork.net/viewer.swf?u=3d5b370eff14102cbc4d001ec92a4a0d&z=CMH" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="429" height="295"></embed></object>

Last week we reported a on similar story out of Albany, New York, where a daycare worker employed by Northeast Health was shocked to be told by her boss that she would be fired if she refused to take a seasonal swine flu shot on the spot.

Though New York is a focal point, with new State laws recently passed mandating vaccination for health care workers, the same scenario has since unfolded nationwide, with health workers across the country now revolting in protest as more and more hospitals and clinics are moving to instigate mandatory vaccination polices.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006/030306_b_mercury.htm

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2006/020306Neurodevelopmental.htm

http://www.infowars.com/articles/science/autism_none_for_unvaccinated_amish.htm

http://www.talkaboutcuringautism.org/autism/latest_autism_statistics.htm

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/october2004/201004fivetimes.htm

http://www.doh.wa.gov/Publicat/2009_news/09-154.htm

http://www2.nbc4i.com/cmh/news/local/article/local_hospital_no_flu_vaccine_no_pay_raise/24055/

http://www.prisonplanet.com/daycare-worker-told-shell-be-fired-for-refusing-mandatory-flu-shot.html

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420ap_wa_flu_shots.html

http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/health/1797828,CST-NWS-flu30.article

http://www.infowars.net/index.html

wait, I thought it was employment-mandatory, now it is just impacting people's bonuses? That's not quite as bad is it?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 08:45 PM
wait, I thought it was employment-mandatory, now it is just impacting people's bonuses? That's not quite as bad is it?

That's a different area of the country don't know if you noticed.

banyon
09-30-2009, 08:47 PM
That's a different area of the country don't know if you noticed.

I did. I noticed it didn't appear to be mandatory as well.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 08:48 PM
I did. I noticed it didn't appear to be mandatory as well.

Mandatory or you can lose your job.

banyon
09-30-2009, 08:56 PM
Mandatory or you can lose your job.

Did you read your article? That wasn't in there.

KCWolfman
09-30-2009, 08:57 PM
The state doesn't regulate McDonalds as part of its viral/disease control medical strategy, and rightfully it does not.

Medical staff should be cognizant of what field they chose to work in.

I agree, MEDICAL@staff should, not billing staff though. There is a huge difference

You stated those who work at a facility need to be innoculated regardless of position because of potential contact. I state that potential contact is more likely to occur in a restaurant instead of a secluded office. Your statement above isn't linear at all, it just goes back to your original opinion. Did you know TB tests are not required for non-patient contact employees? Shouldn't your logic prevail there as well?
Posted via Mobile Device

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 09:06 PM
Did you read your article? That wasn't in there.

"Though New York is a focal point, with new State laws recently passed mandating vaccination for health care workers, the same scenario has since unfolded nationwide, with health workers across the country now revolting in protest as more and more hospitals and clinics are moving to instigate mandatory vaccination polices."

Do you suppose they take away their recess if they don't take it?

wild1
09-30-2009, 09:14 PM
Don't doctors take an oath?

They may. And before what authority is it taken?

banyon
09-30-2009, 09:18 PM
"Though New York is a focal point, with new State laws recently passed mandating vaccination for health care workers, the same scenario has since unfolded nationwide, with health workers across the country now revolting in protest as more and more hospitals and clinics are moving to instigate mandatory vaccination polices."

Do you suppose they take away their recess if they don't take it?

They did in your post with the actual poloicy and not the imagined one.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 09:20 PM
They did in your post with the actual poloicy and not the imagined one.

righhhhhhhhhhhht, drink much?

banyon
09-30-2009, 09:21 PM
righhhhhhhhhhhht, drink much?

what?

I'm sorry your newest article didn't say what you thought it said and now you have to backtrack.

Perhaps you should utilize a bit more scrutiny before posting ad nauseam the latest drivel from the fringey-est site you can find.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 09:28 PM
what?

I'm sorry your newest article didn't say what you thought it said and now you have to backtrack.

Perhaps you should utilize a bit more scrutiny before posting ad nauseam the latest drivel from the fringey-est site you can find.

If something at your job is mandatory and you refuse to do it what happens?

banyon
09-30-2009, 09:37 PM
If something at your job is mandatory and you refuse to do it what happens?

Apparently in Ohio your bonus could be cut or your pay raise frozen.

banyon
09-30-2009, 09:38 PM
:spock:ROFL

So, if our troops had to enter a combat zone with a new airborne strain of polio which is easily preventable by vaccine, your answer would be: a)expose them to an easily preventable disease because vaccines are a fraud perpetrated upon us by the Reptilian/Bilderbergs/Illuminati b) allow soldiers to refuse innoculation and entry into the zone and undermine our defense readiness or ability to fight the conflict, or c) throw up the white flag of surrender because the choice is too difficult?

What was the answer to this question?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 09:47 PM
What was the answer to this question?

I don't live in a multiple choice world, you do?

banyon
09-30-2009, 09:48 PM
I don't live in a multiple choice world, you do?

I do when the choices are exclusive of each other.

If you can think of another answer, then by all means provide it, but do it with granting the premise.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 09:48 PM
I do when the choices are exclusive of each other.

If you can think of another answer, then by all means provide it, but do it with granting the premise.

Was that off an episode of 24?

banyon
09-30-2009, 10:04 PM
Was that off an episode of 24?

Yeah, that's an honest effort to answer the hypothetical ( a real scenario that military commanders have to plan for, BTW).

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 10:11 PM
Yeah, that's an honest effort to answer the hypothetical ( a real scenario that military commanders have to plan for, BTW).

Just as honest as the horribly worded question. ;)

banyon
09-30-2009, 10:18 PM
Just as honest as the horribly worded question. ;)

Well, it's pretty hard to construct hypotheticals that are realistic when they are designed to test the assumptions of outlandish bizarre conspiracy theories. ;)

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 10:19 PM
Well, it's pretty hard to construct hypotheticals that are realistic when they are designed to test the assumptions of outlandish bizarre conspiracy theories. ;)

What conspiracy theories? the ones you presented? because i haven't presented any.

banyon
09-30-2009, 10:27 PM
What conspiracy theories? the ones you presented? because i haven't presented any.

You most certainly did, beginning with the OP and concluding with the post that generated the hypothetical that I proposed.

On your 2nd point please point out where the vaccinations were needed by our troops? Ever heard of gulf war syndrome? Vaccine related.

So far, you simply refuse to acknowledge the realistic possibility that there are situations where people (including soldiers) might need to be innoculated against viruses). Pretty much since that post, you've just stuck your fingers in your ears and hummed, pretty unpersuasively at that.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 10:28 PM
You most certainly did, beginning with the OP and concluding with the post that generated the hypothetical that I proposed.



So far, you simply refuse to acknowledge the realistic possibility that there are situations where people (including soldiers) might need to be innoculated against viruses). Pretty much since that post, you've just stuck your fingers in your ears and hummed, pretty unpersuasively at that.

Due to the fact studies show vaccines to be useless or worse harmful?

banyon
09-30-2009, 10:34 PM
Due to the fact studies show vaccines to be useless or worse harmful?

Actually, studies show that the smallpox and polio vaccine saved many, many lives and more or less eradicated some very harmful diseases.

They also show that seasonal flu shots are effective in reducing your chances ofcoming down with seasonal flu.

But, I suppose you have probably 1 "study" from kooky discredited non peer-reviewed journal of the damned that somehow refutes the hundreds of other studies to the contrary, right? (another variant of the all information is equal, no mater how credible, accepted, or objectively proven school of thought).

petegz28
09-30-2009, 10:36 PM
Actually, studies show that the smallpox and polio vaccine saved many, many lives and more or less eradicated some very harmful diseases.

They also show that seasonal flu shots are effective in reducing your chances ofcoming down with seasonal flu.

But, I suppose you have probably 1 "study" from kooky discredited non peer-reviewed journal of the damned that somehow refutes the hundreds of other studies to the contrary, right? (another variant of the all information is equal, no mater how credible, accepted, or objectively proven school of thought).

I don't claim to know everyone who gets the flu shot. But everyone I know that gets the flu shot gets the flu right after they get the shot.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 10:39 PM
Actually, studies show that the smallpox and polio vaccine saved many, many lives and more or less eradicated some very harmful diseases.

They also show that seasonal flu shots are effective in reducing your chances ofcoming down with seasonal flu.

But, I suppose you have probably 1 "study" from kooky discredited non peer-reviewed journal of the damned that somehow refutes the hundreds of other studies to the contrary, right? (another variant of the all information is equal, no mater how credible, accepted, or objectively proven school of thought).

Vaccines weaken your immune system
What this information reveals is further evidence that flu shots damage or weaken your immune system, making you more susceptible to subsequent infections. Flu shots don't even work to reduce your risk of getting the flu that they're targeting! Most people who get the flu are the very same people who routinely receive flu shots.

This will hold true with H1N1 swine flu as well: The people getting the swine flu virus will be primarily those who routinely receive flu vaccinations.

You know why? Because a flu shot trains your immune system to be lazy. It exposes your immune technology to an artificially weakened virus, resulting in a lazy adaptive response from your immune technology. In much the same way that your leg muscles atrophy if you stop walking, your immune system begins to weaken if you don't exercise it. And this leads to an increased risk of being unable to defend against future exposure to infectious disease, which is exactly what we're seeing with this Canadian study.

Vaccines are the quackery of modern medicine. They not only don't work to protect people from the diseases they target; they also increase the risk of being infected with other diseases. And that doesn't even include the ways in which vaccine ingredients (adjuvants or preservatives) can cause permanent damage to your nervous system.

If vaccines strengthen the immune system (as vaccine makers imply), then why do people who take such vaccines end up at higher risk of future infections? The only rational explanation for this is that vaccines compromise immune function. And if that's true, then why should anyone take them in the first place?

Vitamin D makes flu shot vaccines obsolete
We could do away with vaccines almost entirely by giving people vitamin D supplements instead. Seasonal flu is no match for healthy levels of vitamin D in the blood, and with the addition of a few immune-supporting nutrients (like vitamin C, zinc, and omega-3 oils), the days of people getting sick from the seasonal flu would be all but over.

People who have adequate levels of vitamin D in their blood rarely get sick from seasonal flu. The flu primarily strikes those who are nutritionally deficient in one or more key immune system nutrients.

But rather than teach patients how to correct those deficiencies, the entire industry of western medicine would much rather poke a hole in your arm, inject you with chemicals, charge you forty bucks and keep you in the dark about the nutrients that would have protected you better in the first place. That's modern medicine for you: Consumer ignorance plus chemical intervention. It's a great recipe for making money, but it's a terrible recipe for protecting public health.

That's why I say just say no to ALL vaccines. They harm you far more than they help, and they're based on the most absurd medical quackery you can imagine. As is common throughout the pharmaceutical industry, most of the "evidence" supporting the efficacy of vaccines was fabricated by drug companies. There is absolutely no evidence anywhere in the world that says vaccines protect you from seasonal flu better than vitamin D and immune-boosting nutrients. There's not even any trustworthy evidence that seasonal flu shots reduce your long-term risk of being infected with the flu.

But now there is evidence that receiving a seasonal flu shot may increase your risk of contracting H1N1 swine flu, and that's something to carefully consider if you value your health (or your life).

http://www.naturalnews.com/027102_vaccines_H1N1_flu_shot.html

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/09/23/flu-shots-h1n1-seasonal.html

banyon
09-30-2009, 10:47 PM
Vaccines weaken your immune system
What this information reveals is further evidence that flu shots damage or weaken your immune system, making you more susceptible to subsequent infections. Flu shots don't even work to reduce your risk of getting the flu that they're targeting! Most people who get the flu are the very same people who routinely receive flu shots.

This will hold true with H1N1 swine flu as well: The people getting the swine flu virus will be primarily those who routinely receive flu vaccinations.

You know why? Because a flu shot trains your immune system to be lazy. It exposes your immune technology to an artificially weakened virus, resulting in a lazy adaptive response from your immune technology. In much the same way that your leg muscles atrophy if you stop walking, your immune system begins to weaken if you don't exercise it. And this leads to an increased risk of being unable to defend against future exposure to infectious disease, which is exactly what we're seeing with this Canadian study.

Vaccines are the quackery of modern medicine. They not only don't work to protect people from the diseases they target; they also increase the risk of being infected with other diseases. And that doesn't even include the ways in which vaccine ingredients (adjuvants or preservatives) can cause permanent damage to your nervous system.

If vaccines strengthen the immune system (as vaccine makers imply), then why do people who take such vaccines end up at higher risk of future infections? The only rational explanation for this is that vaccines compromise immune function. And if that's true, then why should anyone take them in the first place?

Vitamin D makes flu shot vaccines obsolete
We could do away with vaccines almost entirely by giving people vitamin D supplements instead. Seasonal flu is no match for healthy levels of vitamin D in the blood, and with the addition of a few immune-supporting nutrients (like vitamin C, zinc, and omega-3 oils), the days of people getting sick from the seasonal flu would be all but over.

People who have adequate levels of vitamin D in their blood rarely get sick from seasonal flu. The flu primarily strikes those who are nutritionally deficient in one or more key immune system nutrients.

But rather than teach patients how to correct those deficiencies, the entire industry of western medicine would much rather poke a hole in your arm, inject you with chemicals, charge you forty bucks and keep you in the dark about the nutrients that would have protected you better in the first place. That's modern medicine for you: Consumer ignorance plus chemical intervention. It's a great recipe for making money, but it's a terrible recipe for protecting public health.

That's why I say just say no to ALL vaccines. They harm you far more than they help, and they're based on the most absurd medical quackery you can imagine. As is common throughout the pharmaceutical industry, most of the "evidence" supporting the efficacy of vaccines was fabricated by drug companies. There is absolutely no evidence anywhere in the world that says vaccines protect you from seasonal flu better than vitamin D and immune-boosting nutrients. There's not even any trustworthy evidence that seasonal flu shots reduce your long-term risk of being infected with the flu.

But now there is evidence that receiving a seasonal flu shot may increase your risk of contracting H1N1 swine flu, and that's something to carefully consider if you value your health (or your life).

http://www.naturalnews.com/027102_vaccines_H1N1_flu_shot.html

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/09/23/flu-shots-h1n1-seasonal.html

LOL at your choice of headlines and articles:

1) Fringe site interpretive paraphrase headline (from "natural news.com" which makes money selling alternative medicine and advertising it):

Vaccines weaken your immune system

2) 2nd semi credible linked article title (from cbc):

Seasonal flu shot may increase H1N1 risk

with description:

Preliminary research suggests the seasonal flu shot may put people at greater risk for getting swine flu, CBC News has learned.

"This is some evidence that has been floated. It hasn't been validated yet, it's very preliminary," cautioned Dr. Don Low, microbiologist-in-chief at Mount Sinai Hospital in Toronto.

Seriously, your objectivity and bias detectors are just flat f*cking broken.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 10:50 PM
LOL at your choice of headlines and articles:

1) Fringe site interpretive paraphrase headline (from "natural news.com" which makes money selling alternative medicine and advertising it):

Vaccines weaken your immune system

2) 2nd semi credible linked article title (from cbc):

Seasonal flu shot may increase H1N1 risk

with description:



Seriously, your objectivity and bias detectors are just flat f*cking broken.

Post #13, here
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=215290

That's rich! ROFL

banyon
09-30-2009, 10:52 PM
Post #13, here
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=215290

That's rich! ROFL

I'm not sure what your point is, but that's about as pure of a textbook example of deflection that I have probably seen in this forum to date.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 11:03 PM
I'm not sure what your point is, but that's about as pure of a textbook example of deflection that I have probably seen in this forum to date.

How would you like me to answer your failure to recognise there are different views on the subject? One pushed by the pharmaceutical companies who make billions a year, whom you choose to defend as if they were a client of yours. As usual you fail to see any conflict of interest while accusing those who challenge them as money grubbers.

banyon
09-30-2009, 11:06 PM
How would you like me to answer your failure to recognise there are different views on the subject? One pushed by the pharmaceutical companies who make billions a year, whom you choose to defend as if they were a client of yours. As usual you fail to see any conflict of interest while accusing those who challenge them as money grubbers.

I don't think major pharma was around to pimp the Polio and smallpox vaccines. Nor do I think there's a big cover-up that the alternative medicine news marketing their own products is somehow more credible on than years and years of research (even as it's obvious from the article you just posted how quickly they twisted the cbc story to fit their predetermineed goals).

Nor do I think you even attempted to address my fair hypothetical which asked you to explore the consequences of your view, which understandably you don't want to do.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 11:10 PM
I don't think major pharma was around to pimp the Polio and smallpox vaccines. Nor do I think there's a big cover-up that the alternative medicine news marketing their own products is somehow more credible on than years and years of research (even as it's obvious from the article you just posted how quickly they twisted the cbc story to fit their predetermineed goals).

Nor do I think you even attempted to address my fair hypothetical which asked you to explore the consequences of your view, which understandably you don't want to do.

Major Pharma is around now and they pretty much pay for mainstream news, and who might i ask are they advertising to? Last time i checked you can't exactly go down to the local store and pick up whatever medicine you may want without a DOCTORS PRESCRIPTION. You can readdress your hypothetical question in a fair and non predetermined fashion if you would like an answer.

banyon
09-30-2009, 11:14 PM
Major Pharma is around now and they pretty much pay for mainstream news, and who might i ask are they advertising to? Last time i checked you can't exactly go down to the local store and pick up whatever medicine you may want without a DOCTORS PRESCRIPTION. You can readdress your hypothetical question in a fair and non predetermined fashion if you would like an answer.

Here's an open ended way to answer the question which I admittedly asked sarcastically the first time around:

1) Are there any situations which would merit requiring innoculations against vaccination?

2) What would you do in a situation where military intervention was required in an area with an easily treatable viral infection?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 11:20 PM
Here's an open ended way to answer the question which I admittedly asked sarcastically the first time around:

1) Are there any situations which would merit requiring innoculations against vaccination?

2) What would you do in a situation where military intervention was required in an area with an easily treatable viral infection?

1. innoculations against vaccination?

2. I would avoid giving them a vaccination because they do not work, I would make sure their immune systems were in top shape.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 11:21 PM
Makers Of Vaccination Refuse To Take H1N1

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banyon
09-30-2009, 11:23 PM
1. innoculations against vaccination?

2. I would avoid giving them a vaccination because they do not work, I would make sure their immune systems were in top shape.

Okay, you are just in complete denial about this. Anyone who wants to deny the effectiveness of the polio and smallpox vaccines without any basis for doing so is beyond powers of ordinary argument persuasion.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 11:27 PM
This should help with the "TRUST" factor.

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banyon
09-30-2009, 11:38 PM
That didn't appear to be about Polio or Smallpox in the least.

All that was in the video was some criticism of testing vaccines on monkeys, it wasn't about whether all vaccines were ineffective. There were apparently problems with one variety of monkey kidney vaccine, which is pretty common to have in any form of medicine. It's science, part of it is trial and error.

The filmmaker also appears to have a pretty poor comprehension about when people are being ironic or sarcastic.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 11:42 PM
That didn't appear to be about Polio or Smallpox in the least.

All that was in the video was some criticism of testing vaccines on monkeys, it wasn't about whether all vaccines were ineffective. There were apparently problems with one variety of monkey kidney vaccine, which is pretty common to have in any form of medicine. It's science, part of it is trial and error.

The filmmaker also appears to have a pretty poor comprehension about when people are being ironic or sarcastic.

MERCK brought AIDS to America, was he just kidding?

Dr. Len Horowitz is no slouch i assure you.

banyon
09-30-2009, 11:45 PM
MERCK brought AIDS to America, was he just kidding?

Dr. Len Horowitz is no slouch i assure you.

Uh, yeah, you can tell he was joking because even the interviewer was making sarcastic suggestions.

In any event, it's completely irrelevant to the topic of whether or not any vaccines are effective.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 11:49 PM
Uh, yeah, you can tell he was joking because even the interviewer was making sarcastic suggestions.

In any event, it's completely irrelevant to the topic of whether or not any vaccines are effective.

I got news for you it wasn't a joke, he was serious. Did you watch the entire interview?

banyon
09-30-2009, 11:50 PM
I got news for you it wasn't a joke, he was serious.

I got news for you: You need some more contact with the outside world and how people interact in it.

It is obviously a joke. It's not really even close.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-30-2009, 11:52 PM
I got news for you: You need some more contact with the outside world and how people interact in it.

It is obviously a joke. It's not really even close.

Not when you consider the subject matter, the entire interview is very clear. Was the entire interview a joke?

banyon
10-01-2009, 12:02 AM
Not when you consider the subject matter, the entire interview is very clear. Was the entire interview a joke?

No, but in the course of an hour(s) long interview one would normally expect some exchanges of light banter. It's how humans interact.

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 12:04 AM
No, but in the course of an hour(s) long interview one would normally expect some exchanges of light banter. It's how humans interact.

The entire interview both serious and (sick)laughing was an admittance that SV40 was in the vaccines.

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 12:06 AM
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banyon
10-01-2009, 12:09 AM
I don't have time to indulge any more of your paranoid fantasies, as the original debate has long ago been sidetracked and abandoned by you at this point.

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 12:11 AM
I don't have time to indulge any more of your paranoid fantasies, as the original debate has long ago been sidetracked and abandoned by you at this point.

Fingers in the ears i understand, this is the ENTIRE basis of vaccines and it's extremely shady at best, history.

Silock
10-01-2009, 09:41 AM
Given that you think cancer is a GOOD thing for our bodies, whatever medical facts you think you know about vaccines and how the human body works should be viewed with much suspicion.

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 09:42 AM
Given that you think cancer is a GOOD thing for our bodies, whatever medical facts you think you know about vaccines and how the human body works should be viewed with much suspicion.

Who were you referring to? The wind?

vailpass
10-01-2009, 09:48 AM
Do you guys have actual proof of this, or just the usual rumor and innuendo?

(from somewhere besides prisonplanet.com, preferably)

The teachers at my son's school are required to take the flu vaccine. It is interesting because one of the teachers does not believe in vaccines. This will come to a head once the vaccine is released this month.

vailpass
10-01-2009, 09:52 AM
an insult? no you were the accuser of fantasy worlds i only pointed out that maybe it was the mirror you were looking in. On your 2nd point please point out where the vaccinations were needed by our troops? Ever heard of gulf war syndrome? Vaccine related.

Dude you need help. Paranoid about the police. Paranoid about vaccines. Paranoid about being paranoid.
Remember, just because you are paranoid does NOT mean they aren't watching you.

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 09:54 AM
Dude you need help. Paranoid about the police. Paranoid about vaccines. Paranoid about being paranoid.
Remember, just because you are paranoid does NOT mean they aren't watching you.

Did you watch the vid? There are plenty of military that feel the same way about gulf war syndrome.

KCWolfman
10-01-2009, 09:57 AM
Dude you need help. Paranoid about the police. Paranoid about vaccines. Paranoid about being paranoid.
Remember, just because you are paranoid does NOT mean they aren't watching you.

Vailpass - The point is they have the right to be paranoid. Currently they have the right to deny the innoculation.

Nothing else matters until the shot is foisted upon them.

vailpass
10-01-2009, 10:02 AM
Vailpass - The point is they have the right to be paranoid. Currently they have the right to deny the innoculation.

Nothing else matters until the shot is foisted upon them.

Private citizens have the right to refuse innoculation, sure. Absolutely.
Employers have the right to require vaccination in certain situations.
Military surrender a lot of their rights when they sign up.

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 10:03 AM
Private citizens have the right to refuse innoculation, sure. Absolutely.
Employers have the right to require vaccination in certain situations.
Military surrender a lot of their rights when they sign up.

They DO NOT have to surrender their right to be healthy.

Silock
10-01-2009, 10:05 AM
Who were you referring to? The wind?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=207344

And you still haven't answered what supplements you take.

KCWolfman
10-01-2009, 10:08 AM
Private citizens have the right to refuse innoculation, sure. Absolutely.
Employers have the right to require vaccination in certain situations.
Military surrender a lot of their rights when they sign up.

Vail - My problem is when the requirement is "necessary".

For example: On this thread alone, we have people telling us that everyone in a healthcare facility should be required to be innoculated. Even if they have 0 patient and provider contact - ridiculous.

The uninformed are the ones who are deciding who needs it and who doesn't.

vailpass
10-01-2009, 10:08 AM
They DO NOT have to surrender their right to be healthy.

If you meant soldiers do not have to submit to the vaccinations required by their employer you are correct. They can choose not to sign up.

vailpass
10-01-2009, 10:11 AM
Vail - My problem is when the requirement is "necessary".

For example: On this thread alone, we have people telling us that everyone in a healthcare facility should be required to be innoculated. Even if they have 0 patient and provider contact - ridiculous.

The uninformed are the ones who are deciding who needs it and who doesn't.

Oh I agree with you 100%. I also support both employer and employee rights.
Some employers have requirements that do not fit a particular individuals beliefs. That individual, as you say, is free to decline to conform to that requirement and to seek employment elsewhere.

KCWolfman
10-01-2009, 10:13 AM
Oh I agree with you 100%. I also support both employer and employee rights.
Some employers have requirements that do not fit a particular individuals beliefs. That individual, as you say, is free to decline to conform to that requirement and to seek employment elsewhere.

Not if the state is the one seeking the requirement and not the employer.

vailpass
10-01-2009, 10:15 AM
Not if the state is the one seeking the requirement and not the employer.

I'm sorry, I'm not well enough informed to comment on that although prima facie it sounds like a bad thing.
I was speaking in general employment requirement terms.

Is the government forcing vaccines on health care workers?

KCWolfman
10-01-2009, 10:16 AM
I'm sorry, I'm not well enough informed to comment on that although prima facie it sounds like a bad thing.
I was speaking in general employment requirement terms.

Is the government forcing vaccines on health care workers?

NY is considering.

Silock
10-01-2009, 10:18 AM
NY is considering.

Which isn't the same thing.

KCWolfman
10-01-2009, 10:49 AM
Which isn't the same thing.

Isn't the same thing as what?

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 11:06 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=207344

And you still haven't answered what supplements you take.

It's all about an entire lifestyle change I only drink purified alkalized water(RO or Distilled), 90% + Organic diet. Meat only once a week Max. I take daily

2000 mg coral calcium
2-3000 vitamin C
3000 vitamin D (not during the summer months)
2 wormwood combination
500 mg royal jelly
800 mg echinacea more if i'm around people that are sick
1000 mg fish/krill oil

Silock
10-01-2009, 11:49 AM
I take all of those, save the quacky Coral Calcium and wormword, and follow a mostly paleo diet with grass-fed beef and fish.

I call BS on the no aches and pains. Either you do nothing that would possibly result in any kind of ache, or you're just lying to yourself. There's no amount of supplements or diets that can ever completely prevent you from getting aches and pains.

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 11:50 AM
I take all of those, save the quacky Coral Calcium and wormword, and follow a mostly paleo diet with grass-fed beef and fish.

I call BS on the no aches and pains. Either you do nothing that would possibly result in any kind of ache, or you're just lying to yourself. There's no amount of supplements or diets that can ever completely prevent you from getting aches and pains.

I really don't have aches and pains but if i did i would avoid painkillers as a rule since all they do is mask the pain and hurt your liver. MSM works to heal as well but i don't take it on a regular basis. The Wormwood really helps out the digestive system.

wild1
10-01-2009, 12:11 PM
For example: On this thread alone, we have people telling us that everyone in a healthcare facility should be required to be innoculated. Even if they have 0 patient and provider contact - ridiculous.

The uninformed are the ones who are deciding who needs it and who doesn't.

Indeed. Those who say everyone should be required to have it generally do not have any qualification to make that claim. Most of these claims seem to be made by the media, from politican's lecterns, or from armchairs.

I do not feel, as Killer Clown does, that this is the government forcing me to be sterile or giving me autism or introducing a mind control vector to my body. I do think that most sane people who aren't relying on media hyperbole realize that a case of the flu isn't going to hurt them.

If you are very young, old, immuno-compromised, etc.,get one. If something drastically changes about the virus I'll get one. Otherwise, leave it for people who need it, at least for now.

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 12:46 PM
Indeed. Those who say everyone should be required to have it generally do not have any qualification to make that claim. Most of these claims seem to be made by the media, from politican's lecterns, or from armchairs.

I do not feel, as Killer Clown does, that this is the government forcing me to be sterile or giving me autism or introducing a mind control vector to my body. I do think that most sane people who aren't relying on media hyperbole realize that a case of the flu isn't going to hurt them.

If you are very young, old, immuno-compromised, etc.,get one. If something drastically changes about the virus I'll get one. Otherwise, leave it for people who need it, at least for now.

I never stated any of that as fact but there is some disturbing evidence on such save for the alien mind control bs. I do however accept the view that vaccines do not help you especially if you're immune compromised.

What do you think of this vid? is it all a joke?

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Coach
10-01-2009, 02:33 PM
I'll take my chances without this vaccine.

Guru
10-01-2009, 06:59 PM
I'll take my chances without this vaccine.THIS

RJ
10-01-2009, 08:14 PM
FWIW, I just answered the phone a minute ago and heard an automated message from the public schools from this district (my daughter goes to private school, I guess it went out to all households). An elementary school child died today from the H1N1.

Not to sway anyone's opinion about the vaccine. I'm just thinking how much the child's parents must wish it had been available to them. I pray for the child and the family.

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 09:50 PM
FWIW, I just answered the phone a minute ago and heard an automated message from the public schools from this district (my daughter goes to private school, I guess it went out to all households). An elementary school child died today from the H1N1.

Not to sway anyone's opinion about the vaccine. I'm just thinking how much the child's parents must wish it had been available to them. I pray for the child and the family.

There is zero evidence that the vaccine would have helped, zero.

banyon
10-01-2009, 10:05 PM
There is zero evidence that the vaccine would have helped, zero.

Actually, that's dramatically incorrect:

Blood samples from volunteers showed a robust response at "the rather early time point," of 8 to 10 days after the first 15-μg dose from the Sanofi Pasteur vaccine. That response happened in 96% of adults aged 18 to 64 years and in 56% of adults 65 years and older, said Anthony Fauci, MD, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/708794

So far officials of the National Institutes of Health say that in clinical trials they've seen no serious side effects and that study subjects who have been immunized have generated a good response.The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends the vaccine for certain high-priority groups because they are more likely to have serious complications if they develop swine flu. These groups include: pregnant women; caregivers and household contacts of children younger than 6 months; everyone between the ages of 6 months and 24 years; and people ages 25 to 64 with existing health problems.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/30/h1n1.vaccine.decision/index.html

14.1 Studies in Children and Adolescents
Study MI-CP111: Pediatric Comparative Study
A multinational, randomized, double-blind, active-controlled trial (MI-CP111) was performed to assess the efficacy and safety of FluMist compared to an injectable influenza vaccine made by Sanofi Pasteur Inc. (active control) in children <5 years of age, using the refrigerated formulation. During the 2004-2005 influenza season, a total number of 3916 children <5 years of age and without severe asthma, without use of bronchodilator or steroids and without wheezing within the prior 6 weeks were randomized to FluMist and 3936 were randomized to active control. Participants were then followed through the influenza season to identify illness caused by influenza virus. As the primary endpoint, culture-confirmed modified CDC-ILI (CDC-defined influenza-like illness) was defined as a positive culture for a wild-type influenza virus associated within ±7 days of modified CDC-ILI. Modified CDC-ILI was defined as fever (temperature ≥100°F oral or equivalent) plus cough, sore throat, or runny nose/nasal congestion on the same or consecutive days.
In the primary efficacy analysis, FluMist demonstrated a 44.5% (95% CI: 22.4, 60.6) reduction in influenza rate compared to active control as measured by culture-confirmed modified CDC-ILI caused by wild-type strains antigenically similar to those contained in the vaccine. See Table 3 for a description of the results by strain and antigenic similarity.
090910_clean Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Live, Intranasal_USPI_submitted [ID0901014]+FDA5 Page 15 of 21
Table 3 Comparative Efficacy against Culture-Confirmed Modified CDC-ILIa Caused by Wild-Type Strains in Children <5 Years of Age
FluMist
Active Controlb
%
Reduction
95% CI
# of
Rate
# of
Rate
in Rate for
N
Cases
(cases/N)
N
Cases
(cases/N)
FluMistc
Matched Strains
All strains 3916 53 1.4%
A/H1N1 3916 3 0.1%
A/H3N2 3916 0 0.0%
B 3916 50 1.3%
Mismatched Strains
All strains 3916 102 2.6%
A/H1N1 3916 0 0.0%
A/H3N2 3916 37 0.9%
B 3916 66 1.7%
Regardless of Match
All strains 3916 153 3.9%
A/H1N1 3916 3 0.1%
A/H3N2 3916 37 0.9%
B 3916 115 2.9%
3936 93 2.4% 3936 27 0.7% 3936 0 0.0% 3936 67 1.7%
3936 245 6.2% 3936 0 0.0% 3936 178 4.5% 3936 71 1.8%
3936 338 8.6% 3936 27 0.7% 3936 178 4.5% 3936 136 3.5%
44.5% 89.2% --
22.4, 60.6 67.7, 97.4 --
27.3%
-4.8, 49.9
58.2% --
47.4, 67.0 --
79.2% 6.3%
70.6, 85.7 -31.6, 33.3
54.9% 89.2% 79.2% 16.1%
45.4, 62.9 67.7, 97.4 70.6, 85.7 -7.7, 34.7
ATP Population.
a Modified CDC-ILI was defined as fever (temperature ≥100°F oral or equivalent) plus cough, sore throat, or runny nose/nasal congestion on the same or consecutive days.
b Injectable influenza vaccine made by Sanofi Pasteur Inc.
c Reduction in rate was adjusted for country, age, prior influenza vaccination status, and wheezing history status.
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Study D153-P501: Pediatric Study
A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial (D153-P501) was performed to evaluate the efficacy of FluMist in children 12 to 35 months of age without high-risk medical conditions against culture-confirmed influenza illness, using the refrigerated formulation. A total of 3174 children were randomized 3:2 (vaccine:placebo) to receive 2 doses of study vaccine or placebo at least 28 days apart in Year 1. See Table 4 for a description of the results.
Study AV006: Pediatric Study
AV006 was a multi-center, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial performed in U.S. children without high-risk medical conditions to evaluate the efficacy of FluMist against culture-confirmed influenza over two successive seasons using the frozen formulation. The primary endpoint of the trial was the prevention of culture-confirmed influenza illness due to antigenically matched wild-type influenza in children, who received two doses of vaccine in the first year and a single revaccination dose in the second year. During the first year of the study 1602 children 15-71 months of age were randomized 2:1 (vaccine: placebo). Approximately 85% of the participants in the first year returned for the second year of the study. In Year 2, children remained in the same treatment group as in year one and received a single dose of FluMist or placebo. See Table 4 for a description of the results.
Table 4 D153-P501 & AV006, Years 1a: Efficacy of FluMist vs. Placebo against Culture-Confirmed Influenza Illness due to Wild-Type Strains
D153-P501
FluMist nb (%)
Placebo nb (%)
% Efficacy (95% CI)
Nc=1653
Nc=1111
Any strain
56 (3.4%)
139 (12.5%)
72.9%d
(62.8, 80.5)
A/H1N1
23 (1.4%)
81 (7.3%)
80.9% (69.4, 88.5)e
A/H3N2
4 (0.2%)
27 (2.4%)
90.0%
(71.4, 97.5)
B
29 (1.8%)
35 (3.2%)
44.3%
(6.2, 67.2)
AV006
FluMist nb (%)
Placebo nb (%)
% Efficacy (95% CI)
Nc=849
Nc=410
10 (1%)
73 (18%)
93.4%
(87.5, 96.5)
0
0
--
4 (0.5%)
48 (12%)
96.0%
(89.4, 98.5)
6 (0.7%)
31 (7%)
90.5%
(78.0, 95.9)
a D153-P501 and AV006 data are for subjects who received two doses of study vaccine.
b Number and percent of subjects in per-protocol efficacy analysis population with culture-confirmed influenza illness. Number of subjects in per-protocol efficacy analysis population of each treatment group of each study for the “any strain” analysis.
d For D153-P501, influenza circulated through 12 months following vaccination.
e Estimate includes A/H1N1 and A/H1N2 strains. Both were considered antigenically similar to the vaccine.
090910_clean Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine Live, Intranasal_USPI_submitted [ID0901014]+FDA5 Page 17 of 21
c
During the second year of Study AV006, the primary circulating strain was the A/Sydney/05/97 H3N2 strain, which was antigenically dissimilar from the H3N2 strain represented in the vaccine, A/Wuhan/359/95; FluMist demonstrated 87.0% (95% CI: 77.0, 92.6) efficacy against culture-confirmed influenza illness.
14.2 Study in Adults
AV009 was a multi-center, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial to evaluate effectiveness in adults 18-64 years of age without high-risk medical conditions. Participants were randomized 2:1, vaccine:placebo. Cultures for influenza virus were not obtained from subjects in the trial, so that the efficacy against culture-confirmed influenza was not assessed. The A/Wuhan/359/95 (H3N2) strain, which was contained in FluMist, was antigenically distinct from the predominant circulating strain of influenza virus during the trial period, A/Sydney/05/97 (H3N2). Type A/Wuhan (H3N2) and Type B strains also circulated in the U.S. during the study period. The primary endpoint of the trial was the reduction in the proportion of participants with one or more episodes of any febrile illness and prospective secondary endpoints were severe febrile illness, and febrile upper respiratory illness. Effectiveness for any of the three endpoints was not demonstrated in a subgroup of adults 50-64 years of age. Primary and secondary effectiveness endpoints from the age group 18-49 years of age are presented in Table 5. Effectiveness was not demonstrated for the primary endpoint in adults 18-49 years of age.
Table 5
Effectiveness of FluMista in Adults 18–49 Years of Age
During the 7-week Site-Specific Outbreak Period
Endpoint
FluMist N=2411b n (%)
Placebo N=1226b n (%)
Percent Reduction
(95% CI)
Participants with one or more events of:c
Primary Endpoint:
Any febrile illness
331 (13.73)
189 (15.42)
10.9
(-5.1, 24.4)
Secondary Endpoints:
Severe febrile illness
250 (10.37)
158 (12.89)
19.5
(3.0, 33.2)
Febrile upper respiratory illness
213 (8.83)
142 (11.58)
23.7
(6.7, 37.5)

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM182406.pdf

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 10:07 PM
Actually, that's dramatically incorrect:



http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/708794



http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/30/h1n1.vaccine.decision/index.html



http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM182406.pdf

Indeed if the FDA says it...... :rolleyes:

RJ
10-01-2009, 10:08 PM
There is zero evidence that the vaccine would have helped, zero.


I don't know if that's true or not, but it doesn't matter. I'm just saying that I'm sure the child's parents wish they'd had the opportunity to make that choice. My heart goes out to them.

I guess I just posted about it because it was such a sad call to receive. Much different to get a phone call about something that happened in your town than to read in the paper about something that happened hundreds or even thousands of miles away.

banyon
10-01-2009, 10:08 PM
Indeed if the FDA says it...... :rolleyes:

And the NIH, and the AMA, WebMD network, and CNN, and everyone other than naturalnuttynews.com.

Remember your claim was there was no evidence, that's pretty different than "yeah well there's evidence but it's from the feds and I'm a conspiracist so I wanna dispute it).

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 10:10 PM
I don't know if that's true or not, but it doesn't matter. I'm just saying that I'm sure the child's parents wish they'd had the opportunity to make that choice. My heart goes out to them.

I guess I just posted about it because it was such a sad call to receive. Much different to get a phone call about something that happened in your town than to read in the paper about something that happened hundreds or even thousands of miles away.

I understand but do you know the individuals? Do you know anything about the circumstances? Just curious because a lot of swine flu deaths were actually falsely attributed.

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 10:11 PM
And the NIH, and the AMA, WebMD network, and CNN, and everyone other than naturalnuttynews.com.

What did they say about the last swine flu strain? You know the one that killed one with the vaccine injuring thousands?

banyon
10-01-2009, 10:12 PM
What did they say about the last swine flu strain? You know the one that killed one with the vaccine injuring thousands?

Is this going to be a stream of more misinterpreted fringe videos or did you have credible evidence of this claim?

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 10:19 PM
Is this going to be a stream of more misinterpreted fringe videos or did you have credible evidence of this claim?

Here is an article from those kooks at the LA Times.


s→Science
Swine flu 'debacle' of 1976 is recalled
The episode triggered an enduring public backlash against flu vaccination, embarrassed the federal government and cost the director of the CDC his job.
By Shari Roan|April 27, 2009

Warren D. Ward, 48, was in high school when the swine flu threat of 1976 swept the U.S. The Whittier man remembers the episode vividly because a relative died in the 1918 flu pandemic and the 1976 illness was feared to be a direct descendant of the deadly virus.

"The government wanted everyone to get vaccinated," Ward said. "But the epidemic never really broke out. It was a threat that never materialized."

Advertisement

What did materialize were cases of a rare side effect thought to be linked to the shot. The unexpected development cut short the vaccination effort -- an unprecedented national campaign -- after 10 weeks.

The episode triggered an enduring public backlash against flu vaccination, embarrassed the federal government and cost the director of the U.S. Center for Disease Control, now known as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, his job.

The pandemic fears of the time and the resulting vaccine controversy may be fueling some of the public's -- and media's -- anxiety about the current outbreak, said health officials who recalled the previous event.

Ward said his family discussed the vaccine in 1976 and decided not to get it. If a vaccine is ordered for this latest threat, he said, "I'm not getting it. I felt back then like it was a bunch of baloney."

The swine flu brush of 1976 -- some call it a debacle -- holds crucial lessons for the government and health officials who must decide how to react to the new swine flu threat in the days and weeks ahead, said those involved in the 1976 experience.

For starters, officials must keep the public informed. They must admit what they know and don't know. They must have a plan ready should the health threat become dangerous. And they must soothe everyone's nerves with reassurances that there is no need to worry in the meantime.

It's a tall order. Doubts about the government's ability to handle a possible flu pandemic linger from three decades ago, said Dr. Richard P. Wenzel, chairman of internal medicine at Virginia Commonwealth University, who diagnosed some of the early cases in 1976.

However, health experts today know much more about influenza, vaccines and the public's reaction to both, he said.

"I think we're going to have to be cautious," Wenzel said. "Hopefully, there will be a lot of good, honest public health discussion about what happened in 1976."

3 more pages at

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/apr/27/science/sci-swine-history27

RJ
10-01-2009, 10:23 PM
I understand but do you know the individuals? Do you know anything about the circumstances? Just curious because a lot of swine flu deaths were actually falsely attributed.


Actually, I shouldn't have posted anything about it, it's irrelevant to the thread. I just happened to be viewing this forum when the phone rang and it was on my mind.

banyon
10-01-2009, 10:25 PM
Here is an article from those kooks at the LA Times.


s→Science
Swine flu 'debacle' of 1976 is recalled
The episode triggered an enduring public backlash against flu vaccination, embarrassed the federal government and cost the director of the CDC his job.
By Shari Roan|April 27, 2009

Warren D. Ward, 48, was in high school when the swine flu threat of 1976 swept the U.S. The Whittier man remembers the episode vividly because a relative died in the 1918 flu pandemic and the 1976 illness was feared to be a direct descendant of the deadly virus.

"The government wanted everyone to get vaccinated," Ward said. "But the epidemic never really broke out. It was a threat that never materialized."

Advertisement

What did materialize were cases of a rare side effect thought to be linked to the shot. The unexpected development cut short the vaccination effort -- an unprecedented national campaign -- after 10 weeks.

The episode triggered an enduring public backlash against flu vaccination, embarrassed the federal government and cost the director of the U.S. Center for Disease Control, now known as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, his job.

The pandemic fears of the time and the resulting vaccine controversy may be fueling some of the public's -- and media's -- anxiety about the current outbreak, said health officials who recalled the previous event.

Ward said his family discussed the vaccine in 1976 and decided not to get it. If a vaccine is ordered for this latest threat, he said, "I'm not getting it. I felt back then like it was a bunch of baloney."

The swine flu brush of 1976 -- some call it a debacle -- holds crucial lessons for the government and health officials who must decide how to react to the new swine flu threat in the days and weeks ahead, said those involved in the 1976 experience.

For starters, officials must keep the public informed. They must admit what they know and don't know. They must have a plan ready should the health threat become dangerous. And they must soothe everyone's nerves with reassurances that there is no need to worry in the meantime.

It's a tall order. Doubts about the government's ability to handle a possible flu pandemic linger from three decades ago, said Dr. Richard P. Wenzel, chairman of internal medicine at Virginia Commonwealth University, who diagnosed some of the early cases in 1976.

However, health experts today know much more about influenza, vaccines and the public's reaction to both, he said.

"I think we're going to have to be cautious," Wenzel said. "Hopefully, there will be a lot of good, honest public health discussion about what happened in 1976."

3 more pages at

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/apr/27/science/sci-swine-history27

Ok,I read that and there didn't appear to be one anyone who died from that virus, correct?

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 10:31 PM
Ok,I read that and there didn't appear to be one anyone who died from that virus, correct?

1976: Fear of a great plague

By PAUL MICKLE / The Trentonian
On the cold afternoon of February 5, 1976, an Army recruit told his drill instructor at Fort Dix that he felt tired and weak but not sick enough to see military medics or skip a big training hike.

Within 24 hours, 19-year-old Pvt. David Lewis of Ashley Falls, Mass., was dead, killed by an influenza not seen since the plague of 1918-19, which took 500,000 American lives and 20 million worldwide.

Two weeks after the recruit's death, health officials disclosed to America that something called "swine flu" had killed Lewis and hospitalized four of his fellow soldiers at the Army base in Burlington County.

The ominous name of the flu alone was enough to touch off civilian fear of an epidemic. And government doctors knew from tests hastily conducted at Dix after Lewis' death that 500 soldiers had caught swine flu without falling ill.

Any flu able to reach that many people so fast was capable of becoming another worldwide plague, the doctors warned, raising these questions:

Does America mobilize for mass inoculations in time to have everybody ready for the next flu season? Or should the country wait to see if the new virus would, as they often do, get stronger to hit harder in the second year?

Thus was born what would become known to some medical historians as a fiasco and to others as perhaps the finest hour of America's public health bureaucracy.

Only young Lewis died from the swine flu itself in 1976. But as the critics are quick to point out, hundreds of Americans were killed or seriously injured by the inoculation the government gave them to stave off the virus.

According to his sister-in-law, John Kent of President Avenue in Lawrence went to his grave in 1997 believing the shot from the government had killed his first wife, Mary, long before her time.

Among other critics are Arthur M. Silverstein, whose book, "Pure Politics and Impure Science," suggests President Gerald Ford's desire to win the office on his own, as well as the influence of America's big drug manufacturers, figured into the decision to immunize all 220 million Americans.

Still, even the partisan who first branded Ford's program a fiasco, says now that it happened because America's public health establishment identified what easily could have been a new plague and mobilized to beat it amazingly well.

To understand the fear of the time you have to know something about the plague American soldiers seemed to bring home with them after fighting in Europe during World War I.

The Great Plague, as it came to be called, rivaled the horrid Black Death of medieval times in its ability to strike suddenly and take lives swiftly. In addition to the half million in America, it killed 20 million people around the world.

It got its name because it was a brand of flu usually found in domestic pigs and wild swine. It was long thought to have come, like so many flus, out of the Chinese farm country, where people and domestic pigs live closely together.

Recent research has shown, however, that the post-WWI flu was brought to Europe by American troops who had been based in the South before they went to war. Medical detectives, still working on the case in the 1990s, determined that a small group of our soldiers took swine flu to Europe and that it spread to the world from there.

How the swine flu got to Fort Dix in 1976 still hasn't been tracked down. At the time, Dix military doctors knew only that a killer flu had made it to the base and that they were lucky more men hadn't died or been sickened seriously.

Weeks after Lewis died, doctors from the Centers for Disease Control and other federal public health officials were meeting in Washington, trying to decide if they should recommend the government start a costly program of mass inoculations.

http://www.capitalcentury.com/1976.html

Was that a good ratio of saved lives from the vaccination?

banyon
10-01-2009, 10:36 PM
1976: Fear of a great plague

By PAUL MICKLE / The Trentonian
On the cold afternoon of February 5, 1976, an Army recruit told his drill instructor at Fort Dix that he felt tired and weak but not sick enough to see military medics or skip a big training hike.

Within 24 hours, 19-year-old Pvt. David Lewis of Ashley Falls, Mass., was dead, killed by an influenza not seen since the plague of 1918-19, which took 500,000 American lives and 20 million worldwide.

Two weeks after the recruit's death, health officials disclosed to America that something called "swine flu" had killed Lewis and hospitalized four of his fellow soldiers at the Army base in Burlington County.

The ominous name of the flu alone was enough to touch off civilian fear of an epidemic. And government doctors knew from tests hastily conducted at Dix after Lewis' death that 500 soldiers had caught swine flu without falling ill.

Any flu able to reach that many people so fast was capable of becoming another worldwide plague, the doctors warned, raising these questions:

Does America mobilize for mass inoculations in time to have everybody ready for the next flu season? Or should the country wait to see if the new virus would, as they often do, get stronger to hit harder in the second year?

Thus was born what would become known to some medical historians as a fiasco and to others as perhaps the finest hour of America's public health bureaucracy.

Only young Lewis died from the swine flu itself in 1976. But as the critics are quick to point out, hundreds of Americans were killed or seriously injured by the inoculation the government gave them to stave off the virus.

According to his sister-in-law, John Kent of President Avenue in Lawrence went to his grave in 1997 believing the shot from the government had killed his first wife, Mary, long before her time.

Among other critics are Arthur M. Silverstein, whose book, "Pure Politics and Impure Science," suggests President Gerald Ford's desire to win the office on his own, as well as the influence of America's big drug manufacturers, figured into the decision to immunize all 220 million Americans.

Still, even the partisan who first branded Ford's program a fiasco, says now that it happened because America's public health establishment identified what easily could have been a new plague and mobilized to beat it amazingly well.

To understand the fear of the time you have to know something about the plague American soldiers seemed to bring home with them after fighting in Europe during World War I.

The Great Plague, as it came to be called, rivaled the horrid Black Death of medieval times in its ability to strike suddenly and take lives swiftly. In addition to the half million in America, it killed 20 million people around the world.

It got its name because it was a brand of flu usually found in domestic pigs and wild swine. It was long thought to have come, like so many flus, out of the Chinese farm country, where people and domestic pigs live closely together.

Recent research has shown, however, that the post-WWI flu was brought to Europe by American troops who had been based in the South before they went to war. Medical detectives, still working on the case in the 1990s, determined that a small group of our soldiers took swine flu to Europe and that it spread to the world from there.

How the swine flu got to Fort Dix in 1976 still hasn't been tracked down. At the time, Dix military doctors knew only that a killer flu had made it to the base and that they were lucky more men hadn't died or been sickened seriously.

Weeks after Lewis died, doctors from the Centers for Disease Control and other federal public health officials were meeting in Washington, trying to decide if they should recommend the government start a costly program of mass inoculations.

http://www.capitalcentury.com/1976.html

Was that a good ratio of saved lives from the vaccination?

i don't think you even acknowledged my question.

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 10:41 PM
i don't think you even acknowledged my question.

Context Banyon, Context.

Only young Lewis died from the swine flu itself in 1976. But as the critics are quick to point out, hundreds of Americans were killed or seriously injured by the inoculation the government gave them to stave off the virus.

banyon
10-01-2009, 10:43 PM
Context Banyon, Context.

Only young Lewis died from the swine flu itself in 1976. But as the critics are quick to point out, hundreds of Americans were killed or seriously injured by the inoculation the government gave them to stave off the virus.

Yeah, that's what i was aiming for, context. You appear not to recognize that this swine flu is far more serious as it has apparently killed far more people, even by your own numbers.

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 10:45 PM
Yeah, that's what i was aiming for, context. You appear not to recognize that this swine flu is far more serious as it has apparently killed far more people, even by your own numbers.

You can do some research yourself but most of the deaths attributed to the swine flu were all seriously sick individuals who were already at SERIOUS risk. No need for me to pull up information so you can mock me over it, so have at it.

banyon
10-01-2009, 10:50 PM
You can do some research yourself but most of the deaths attributed to the swine flu were all seriously sick individuals who were already at SERIOUS risk. No need for me to pull up information so you can mock me over it, so have at it.

well, you havent' copped to the "no evidence" comment, so why would I expect you to honestly confront evidence of serious swine flue cases?

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 10:53 PM
well, you havent' copped to the "no evidence" comment, so why would I expect you to honestly confront evidence of serious swine flue cases?

Like I said you don't believe anything i post so i'm better off not arguing with you, I believe those studies are skewed by the revolving door that is the Drug companies/FDA but you can continue to believe whatever you want.

banyon
10-01-2009, 10:54 PM
Like I said you don't believe anything i post so i'm better off not arguing with you, I believe those studies are skewed by the revolving door that is the Drug companies/FDA but you can continue to believe whatever you want.


Well that's certainly a mature, evidence-based approach.

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 10:57 PM
Well that's certainly a mature, evidence-based approach.

Actually it is, especially when you can't see the conflict of interest factored into the evidence you present.

banyon
10-01-2009, 11:00 PM
Actually it is, especially when you can't see the conflict of interest factored into the evidence you present.

Especially, when you offer no evidence-based critique of the existing data and pretend with your earlier comment that you won't disavow that there is no contrary data which is obviously false.

KILLER_CLOWN
10-01-2009, 11:21 PM
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KILLER_CLOWN
10-06-2009, 04:31 PM
Dr. Oz Will Propagandize For H1N1 Vaccine, But He Won’t Give It To His Kids

Prison Planet.com
Tuesday, October 6, 2009

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A couple of weeks ago, ABC’s Dr. Oz pulled a propaganda stunt by lauding the virtues of the H1N1 vaccine and apparently getting injected with it live on his show. However, when asked by a CNN anchor if he would be making his kids take it, the doc was less gung-ho. Perhaps he knows what’s actually in the vaccine, namely mercury, squalene and a host of other nasties.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/propaganda-abcs-dr-oz-gets-with-swine-flu-shot.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/dr-oz-will-propagandize-for-h1n1-vaccine-but-he-wont-give-it-to-his-kids.html

banyon
10-17-2009, 11:30 AM
11 More Children Die From Swine Flu: CDC

http://www.ajc.com/health/content/shared-auto/healthnews/cdc-/632078.html

FRIDAY, Oct. 16 (HealthDay News) -- Eleven more U.S. children died from H1N1 swine flu during the past week, a federal health official said Friday, adding that the disease is now so widespread it has surpassed epidemic proportions.

Adding to the seriousness of the situation, manufacturing problems have delayed production of the H1N1 vaccine. Instead of reaching a goal of 40 million doses by the end of October, fewer than 30 million doses will be available, Dr. Anne Schuchat, director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said during an afternoon press conference.

"The delays the manufacturers have will have a substantial impact for the states in their planning efforts. We are seeing more and more vaccine become available -- we wish it were more than it is, but at least we have some," she said.

Schuchat said 86 children have died from the H1N1 swine flu since the virus emerged last spring, with 43 of those deaths coming in September and early October alone. That underscores the concern that swine flu is particularly dangerous for children and young adults who may not have immunity to the disease. During the past three years, deaths among children from the regular seasonal flu ranged from 46 to 88 annually.

"These are very sobering statistics," she said.

What's also surprising, Schuchat said, is that about
sobering statistics," she said.

What's also surprising, Schuchat said, is that about half of the children who have died since the end of August were teenagers. Health officials thought younger children were more vulnerable.

The swine flu is widespread in 41 states, up from 37 states last week, Schuchat said, and "illness, hospitalizations and deaths continue to increase."

Despite the delays in vaccine production, more doses are expected weekly, Schuchat said. "We are all going to have to bear with the situation. We wish we had better ways to produce the vaccine perfectly."

Currently, 11.4 million doses of the vaccine are available, and 8 million of those doses have been ordered by the states, Schuchat said. Ultimately, the government hopes to dispense 190 million doses by the end of the year, federal officials have said.

The first doses of swine flu vaccine, which became available earlier this month, were in the form of a nasal spray called FluMist, which is for people 2 to 49 years old who are not pregnant and do not have chronic medical conditions. Now, slightly more than half of the vaccine doses are in injectable form, which makes the vaccine available to more people, Schuchat said.

In addition to children, those who should be near the front of the line for a swine flu shot include pregnant women, people who care for young children, health-care workers, and people with chronic medical conditions, such as asthma, diabetes and heart disease.

Schuchat also urged people to get vaccinated for the regular seasonal flu. Eighty-two million doses of the seasonal flu vaccine have been distributed, with a total goal of 114 million doses. "So 71 percent of the doses that are going to be produced have already been distributed," she said.

Schuchat added that it's not too late to get a seasonal flu shot since the seasonal flu season has not yet started, and the H1N1 flu continues to be the dominant strain in circulation.

On Thursday, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration warned consumers to use caution when buying products over the Internet that claim to diagnose, prevent, treat or cure the H1N1 flu. Often, these products aren't what they claim to be or are illegal to sell in the United States.

For example, the agency found that pills from India that claimed to be the antiviral drug Tamiflu actually contained talc and acetaminophen, but no Tamiflu.

"Products that are offered for sale online with claims to diagnose, prevent, mitigate, treat or cure the 2009 H1N1 influenza virus must be carefully evaluated," FDA Commissioner Dr. Margaret A. Hamburg said in a prepared statement. "Medicines purchased from Web sites operating outside the law put consumers at increased risk due to a higher potential that the products will be counterfeit, impure, contaminated, or have too little or too much of the active ingredient."

On Friday, a judge in New York state halted mandatory flu vaccinations for health-care workers. New York is the only state to require health-care workers to be vaccinated against the seasonal and swine flu. The restraining order came in response to a lawsuit filed by three nurses who said mandatory vaccinations violated their civil rights, The New York Times reported.



How many deaths from the vaccine KC?

KCWolfman
10-17-2009, 11:53 AM
11 More Children Die From Swine Flu: CDC

http://www.ajc.com/health/content/shared-auto/healthnews/cdc-/632078.html

FRIDAY, Oct. 16 (HealthDay News) -- Eleven more U.S. children died from H1N1 swine flu during the past week, a federal health official said Friday, adding that the disease is now so widespread it has surpassed epidemic proportions.

Adding to the seriousness of the situation, manufacturing problems have delayed production of the H1N1 vaccine. Instead of reaching a goal of 40 million doses by the end of October, fewer than 30 million doses will be available, Dr. Anne Schuchat, director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said during an afternoon press conference.

"The delays the manufacturers have will have a substantial impact for the states in their planning efforts. We are seeing more and more vaccine become available -- we wish it were more than it is, but at least we have some," she said.

Schuchat said 86 children have died from the H1N1 swine flu since the virus emerged last spring, with 43 of those deaths coming in September and early October alone. That underscores the concern that swine flu is particularly dangerous for children and young adults who may not have immunity to the disease. During the past three years, deaths among children from the regular seasonal flu ranged from 46 to 88 annually.

"These are very sobering statistics," she said.

What's also surprising, Schuchat said, is that about
sobering statistics," she said.

What's also surprising, Schuchat said, is that about half of the children who have died since the end of August were teenagers. Health officials thought younger children were more vulnerable.

The swine flu is widespread in 41 states, up from 37 states last week, Schuchat said, and "illness, hospitalizations and deaths continue to increase."

Despite the delays in vaccine production, more doses are expected weekly, Schuchat said. "We are all going to have to bear with the situation. We wish we had better ways to produce the vaccine perfectly."

Currently, 11.4 million doses of the vaccine are available, and 8 million of those doses have been ordered by the states, Schuchat said. Ultimately, the government hopes to dispense 190 million doses by the end of the year, federal officials have said.

The first doses of swine flu vaccine, which became available earlier this month, were in the form of a nasal spray called FluMist, which is for people 2 to 49 years old who are not pregnant and do not have chronic medical conditions. Now, slightly more than half of the vaccine doses are in injectable form, which makes the vaccine available to more people, Schuchat said.

In addition to children, those who should be near the front of the line for a swine flu shot include pregnant women, people who care for young children, health-care workers, and people with chronic medical conditions, such as asthma, diabetes and heart disease.

Schuchat also urged people to get vaccinated for the regular seasonal flu. Eighty-two million doses of the seasonal flu vaccine have been distributed, with a total goal of 114 million doses. "So 71 percent of the doses that are going to be produced have already been distributed," she said.

Schuchat added that it's not too late to get a seasonal flu shot since the seasonal flu season has not yet started, and the H1N1 flu continues to be the dominant strain in circulation.

On Thursday, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration warned consumers to use caution when buying products over the Internet that claim to diagnose, prevent, treat or cure the H1N1 flu. Often, these products aren't what they claim to be or are illegal to sell in the United States.

For example, the agency found that pills from India that claimed to be the antiviral drug Tamiflu actually contained talc and acetaminophen, but no Tamiflu.

"Products that are offered for sale online with claims to diagnose, prevent, mitigate, treat or cure the 2009 H1N1 influenza virus must be carefully evaluated," FDA Commissioner Dr. Margaret A. Hamburg said in a prepared statement. "Medicines purchased from Web sites operating outside the law put consumers at increased risk due to a higher potential that the products will be counterfeit, impure, contaminated, or have too little or too much of the active ingredient."

On Friday, a judge in New York state halted mandatory flu vaccinations for health-care workers. New York is the only state to require health-care workers to be vaccinated against the seasonal and swine flu. The restraining order came in response to a lawsuit filed by three nurses who said mandatory vaccinations violated their civil rights, The New York Times reported.



How many deaths from the vaccine KC?

According to the CDC (CDC.gov) 43 juvenile deaths have occurred in part to influenza or influenza type systems. 39 attributed to H1N1. Last year 115 juvenile deaths were attributed to influenza strains. You do realize that 36,000 people in the United States die each year from influenza and its symptoms?

At the same time 40% more influenza LIKE symptoms are being reported in outpatient settings with no increase in influenza cases across the nation from last year's stats.

The scare, due to articles like the one you quoted, is working fine - if you are into hypochondria.


Even the CDC now states "This flu season could be worse. There is a new and very different flu virus spreading worldwide among people called 2009 H1N1 flu. This virus may cause more illness or more severe illness than usual. See 2009 H1N1 Flu (Swine Flu) and You for more information."

banyon
10-17-2009, 12:03 PM
According to the CDC (CDC.gov) 43 juvenile deaths have occurred in part to influenza or influenza type systems. 39 attributed to H1N1. Last year 115 juvenile deaths were attributed to influenza strains. You do realize that 36,000 people in the United States die each year from influenza and its symptoms?

At the same time 40% more influenza LIKE symptoms are being reported in outpatient settings with no increase in influenza cases across the nation from last year's stats.

The scare, due to articles like the one you quoted, is working fine - if you are into hypochondria.


Even the CDC now states "This flu season could be worse. There is a new and very different flu virus spreading worldwide among people called 2009 H1N1 flu. This virus may cause more illness or more severe illness than usual. See 2009 H1N1 Flu (Swine Flu) and You for more information."

I am not. My argument in this thread with KC (which admittedly is very lengthy and tedious for you to have read, is about whether the vaccine does more harm than the flu itself, a position which is patently ridiculous as this article and most other credible ones would show.

I mean KC was arguing that the Polio and smallpox vaccines were government hoaxes. You don't want to stand out there onj that limb with him really do ya?

KCWolfman
10-17-2009, 12:05 PM
I am not. My argument in this thread with KC (which admittedly is very lengthy and tedious for you to have read, is about whether the vaccine does more harm than the flu itself, a position which is patently ridiculous as this article and most other credible ones would show.

I mean KC was arguing that the Polio and smallpox vaccines were government hoaxes. You don't want to stand out there onj that limb with him really do ya?

I don't buy into either end of the spectrum.

It is just a flu, as the stats show. If you are not old and feeble, seriously ill with depleted immunities, or an infant, there is no serious threat to your life.

banyon
10-17-2009, 12:11 PM
I don't buy into either end of the spectrum.

It is just a flu, as the stats show. If you are not old and feeble, seriously ill with depleted immunities, or an infant, there is no serious threat to your life.

What are the ends of the spectrum here? The side that says the vaccine works (like scientists) and the side that says it doesn't (well intentioned Right wing bloggers distrustful of the government)?

<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com'>The Daily Show With Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-october-15-2009/doubt-break--09'>Doubt Break '09</a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>www.thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:252494' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes'>Daily Show<br/> Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com'>Political Humor</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com/2009/09/23/ron-paul-on-the-daily-show-tuesday-sept-29/'>Ron Paul Interview</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

KCWolfman
10-17-2009, 12:14 PM
What are the ends of the spectrum here? The side that says the vaccine works (like scientists) and the side that says it doesn't (well intentioned Right wing bloggers distrustful of the government)?



No, the side that says avoid the vaccine like the plague

and

The side that says unless you will get the vaccine you will suffer the plague

banyon
10-17-2009, 12:17 PM
No, the side that says avoid the vaccine like the plague

and

The side that says unless you will get the vaccine you will suffer the plague

Having not gotten the vaccine, I would guess I am between those ends as well.

But it is not some Zionist banking microchip government hoax. And I will point that out as nonsense when it is presented.

wild1
10-17-2009, 12:19 PM
The supply at the institution with which I am affiliated has begun to trickle in, but it's not going beyond the most high-risk so far. It's thought that the supply won't see a significant uptick for 2-4 more weeks.

KCWolfman
10-17-2009, 12:29 PM
Having not gotten the vaccine, I would guess I am between those ends as well.

But it is not some Zionist banking microchip government hoax. And I will point that out as nonsense when it is presented.

I agree. The biggest conspiracy that is happening with this issue is the Pharmies creating a scare to oversell their product for profit.