View Full Version : Economics September jobs report: -263,000, unemployment at 9.8 percent
Bwana
10-02-2009, 03:45 PM
Hope! Change! Thanks Barry. :thumb:
The silver linings here are tough to find, at least according to this summary from IHS Global:
The September employment report signaled a painfully slow path to stabilization in the private employment market, and sharper declines in government jobs. It also suggested that the unemployment rate is likely to hit 10% by the turn of the year.
The leading indicators in the report were not promising. The workweek fell, and is now back at its June low. And temporary help jobs – while declining only fractionally – still haven’t moved into positive territory.
There was nothing to support the view that the economy will be adding jobs before the end of the year. And nothing to support the view that the consumer can sustain the spending increases that we saw in August – employment and hours worked were down, and hourly earnings only inched higher, implying that wage and salary incomes fell.
State and local governments have now shed 160,000 jobs over the past four months as budget cuts bite. This month, 29,000 of those losses came in education as the school year began. The education sector as a whole lost 46,000 jobs this month.
The economy has now lost 7.2 million jobs since the recession began – but the story is even worse than that. The BLS now tells us that it expects to revise down March 2009 employment by 824,000, based on a full employment count from unemployment insurance statistics. That implies that the total loss is now 8.0 million.
http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2009/10/02/september-jobs-report-263000-unemployment-at-98-percent/
wild1
10-02-2009, 03:48 PM
"previous administration"
"problems we inherited"
mlyonsd
10-02-2009, 03:51 PM
"previous administration"
"problems we inherited"
"we predicted it would hit 10%"
BucEyedPea
10-02-2009, 04:01 PM
"previous administration"
"problems we inherited"
Well, let's face it, if you want to be honest, they did inherit it. That doesn't mean their solutions ( more of what caused them to inherit it) will fix it.
talastan
10-02-2009, 04:27 PM
That's not counting all unemployed, including those who have given up looking or settled for part time jobs. It is estimated at around 17% unemployment. :eek:
jjjayb
10-02-2009, 04:32 PM
"Bush's failed economic policies!"
KILLER_CLOWN
10-02-2009, 09:10 PM
Bush and Obama are now pretty much interCHANGEable, Jobless Recovery for tha WIN!
Bwana
10-02-2009, 10:30 PM
That's not counting all unemployed, including those who have given up looking or settled for part time jobs. It is estimated at around 17% unemployment. :eek:
Indeed, the largest unemployment from the great depression until now. I guess that's "CHANGE." Fuck you Barry.
Indeed, the largest unemployment from the great depression until now. I guess that's "CHANGE." **** you Barry.
Blaming Obama for the current economic conditions requires the same amount of substanceless void between the ears required to fall for The Iraq Treason and The War on Exclusively Anti-Israel Terror. You surely fell for the yellowcake BS because you were too stupid to understand physics, much less finance and economics. You successfully blurred Sunni Al Qaeda into "the terrorists, islamofascists" because you were too dumb to have a clue, too lazy to get a clue, and too hateful to care. You have no outrage that the US public was lied to about Iraq. In fact, you are so proud of those lies, and the fact that your treasonous white n-word FIXED NOISE birdbrain fell for those lies, that you don't want those lies investigated, because your Zionist Masters at FIXED tell your treasonous birdbrain that.
F### YOU, TRAITOR. In a just world, you, a rope, and a tree would have a nice long date together...
Saul Good
10-03-2009, 07:35 AM
Blaming Obama for the current economic conditions requires the same amount of substanceless void between the ears required to fall for The Iraq Treason and The War on Exclusively Anti-Israel Terror. You surely fell for the yellowcake BS because you were too stupid to understand physics, much less finance and economics. You successfully blurred Sunni Al Qaeda into "the terrorists, islamofascists" because you were too dumb to have a clue, too lazy to get a clue, and too hateful to care. You have no outrage that the US public was lied to about Iraq. In fact, you are so proud of those lies, and the fact that your treasonous white n-word FIXED NOISE birdbrain fell for those lies, that you don't want those lies investigated, because your Zionist Masters at FIXED tell your treasonous birdbrain that.
F### YOU, TRAITOR. In a just world, you, a rope, and a tree would have a nice long date together...
yawn
HonestChieffan
10-03-2009, 07:37 AM
F### YOU, TRAITOR. In a just world, you, a rope, and a tree would have a nice long date together...
was this even necessary? Are you nuts or what?
SHTSPRAYER
10-03-2009, 07:48 AM
was this even necessary? Are you nuts or what?
Is that a rhetorical question?
Chief Henry
10-03-2009, 08:16 AM
Indeed, the largest unemployment from the great depression until now. I guess that's "CHANGE." **** you Barry.
:thumb:
InChiefsHell
10-03-2009, 08:25 AM
He definitely inherited a big pile of shit. But his solutions have not even gained one bit of ground. They keep trying to paint a rosy picture because job losses have "slowed down" in recent months, but that's bullshit. it's got to turn around for Barry by January at the latest. One full year means he should have been able to turn things around. The blame Bush crowd should STFU after the first of the year.
Barry's got too much on his plate, mostly his own doing. You inherit shit, and instead of building political capital and solving the biggest problem the country has, you instead start pushing your own agenda on health care, economy be damned.
One term President. We can HOPE for that CHANGE.
Barry's got too much on his plate, mostly his own doing. You inherit shit, and instead of building political capital and solving the biggest problem the country has, you instead start pushing your own agenda on health care, economy be damned.
Actually, that's not what happened. His first act, and really only accomplishment so far, was Porkulous, a giant government boondoggle designed to drive the country into debt at a rate previously unimaginable. The good news? Once all the funds are distributed we'll finally have some protection for field mice in Pelosi's district.
Really, it has been amazing to see how catastrophically bad an all-Democrat government can be. Every day they have a new economic wrecking ball that they are plotting, and seemingly every idea is designed around killing free enterprise and ensuring a longer, more severe economic downturn. Baffling.
Bwana
10-03-2009, 08:38 AM
yawn
This LMAO
What a complete nut sniffer.
Bwana
10-03-2009, 08:49 AM
In a just world, you, a rope, and a tree would have a nice long date together...
No, in a "Just world" your mother would have ran out in the back alley and found a coat hanger before it was to late.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2390/1578710906_0e5a52c5e7.jpg?v=0
D2112
10-03-2009, 08:53 AM
Blaming Obama for the current economic conditions requires the same amount of substanceless void between the ears required to fall for The Iraq Treason and The War on Exclusively Anti-Israel Terror. You surely fell for the yellowcake BS because you were too stupid to understand physics, much less finance and economics. You successfully blurred Sunni Al Qaeda into "the terrorists, islamofascists" because you were too dumb to have a clue, too lazy to get a clue, and too hateful to care. You have no outrage that the US public was lied to about Iraq. In fact, you are so proud of those lies, and the fact that your treasonous white n-word FIXED NOISE birdbrain fell for those lies, that you don't want those lies investigated, because your Zionist Masters at FIXED tell your treasonous birdbrain that.
F### YOU, TRAITOR. In a just world, you, a rope, and a tree would have a nice long date together...
Obama could use that if he didnt say during his campaign how brilliant he is. and that whatever GWB and McCain can do, he can do better.
well? now that its time to step up to the plate, he has fecal matter all over his face.
And the obama admin is stil insisting the stimulus package is working! (in between pointing the finger at Bush)
ROFL
A President is historically given credit by economists for his tenure plus a one year lag. The 2009 economy will justifiably be awarded to W and his band of TWNBTS in the "GOP Congress." After 2010, then it is "Obama's economy." It takes a minimal understanding of economics to figure that out, but W supporters have no understanding of anything except how to THUMP a Bible and parrot their Zionist masters at FIXED NOISE.
"No, in a "Just world" your mother would have ran out in the back alley and found a coat hanger before it was to(sic) late."
Yes indeed, you are a treasonous white n-word Bible Thumping Socialist in dire need of a neck stretch...
Bwana
10-03-2009, 09:50 AM
"No, in a "Just world" your mother would have ran out in the back alley and found a coat hanger before it was to(sic) late."
Yes indeed, you are a treasonous white n-word Bible Thumping Socialist in dire need of a neck stretch...
Bible thumping? LMAO You are soooooooo far off base Sparky, but keep running your pie hole.
SHTSPRAYER
10-03-2009, 10:02 AM
One term President. We can HOPE for that CHANGE.
We can hope the pathetic republican party comes up with a candidate we can all vote for without running home after pulling the lever to take a scrub bath in clorox.
talastan
10-03-2009, 10:04 AM
"No, in a "Just world" your mother would have ran out in the back alley and found a coat hanger before it was to(sic) late."
Yes indeed, you are a treasonous white n-word Bible Thumping Socialist in dire need of a neck stretch...
Really man?! Seriously calm down. No reason to blow up over this, it is an open debate; not death threats. :shake:
Bible thumping? LMAO You are soooooooo far off base Sparky, but keep running your pie hole.
I see. Just treasonous white trash who supported W and W's treason... Too dumb to have a clue, too lazy to get a clue, and too hateful to care.
Good thing you didn't deny the white n-word part, because never has a more accurate set of words been posted about you.
talastan
10-03-2009, 10:07 AM
We can hope the pathetic republican party comes up with a candidate we can all vote for without running home after pulling the lever to take a scrub bath in clorox.
I really don't think they have anyone that could go toe to toe and still represent true conservative principles IMO. I think the only geniune conservative hope will be for someone who hasn't been touched by the GOP neo-cons. Maybe a young guy who studies Ron Paul, Reagan, but not either of the Bush administrations. Just my $.02 though.
Really man?! Seriously calm down. No reason to blow up over this, it is an open debate; not death threats. :shake:
You need to understand that a death threat is different than a statement of fact about what the justice system does to criminals. This individual is a traitor, someone who supported the Iraq Treason and the cover-up, cheered as OBL was made "not a priority," and still celebrates 4000 dead, 30000 maimed, and a trillion US taxdollars in the shitter over intentional lies he wants covered up and precisely nothing in our national interest. What I posted is no different than saying Polanski should go to prison...
stevieray
10-03-2009, 10:10 AM
You need to understand that a death threat is different than a statement of fact about what the justice system does to criminals. This individual is a traitor, someone who supported the Iraq Treason and the cover-up, cheered as OBL was made "not a priority," and still celebrates 4000 dead, 30000 maimed, and a trillion US taxdollars in the shitter over intentional lies he wants covered up and precisely nothing in our national interest. What I posted is no different than saying Polanski should go to prison...
is this penchief?
Bwana
10-03-2009, 10:14 AM
I see. Just treasonous white trash who supported W and W's treason... Too dumb to have a clue, too lazy to get a clue, and too hateful to care.
Good thing you didn't deny the white n-word part, because never has a more accurate set of words been posted about you.
I didn't care for Bush either dipshit, keep throwing crap at the wall to see if anything sticks. I have no idea what your "white n-word." What might that word be?
Who turned you onto the board? Who do we owe the thanks to?
Bwana
10-03-2009, 10:15 AM
is this penchief?
I have no idea, but he sure is one angry little bastard. LMAO
I didn't care for Bush either dipshit, keep throwing crap at the wall to see if anything sticks. I have no idea what your "white n-word." What might that word be?
Who turned you onto the board? Who do we owe the thanks to?
LIAR. You loved the treason that was the War on Exclusively anti-Israel terror, the Iraq Treason, making OBL not a priority, flipping off allies of The Northern Alliance after deploying our troops in Afghan next to TNA to fight Taliban/AQ. You never complained one bit about W's big spending, the socialization of senior drugs etc.
And you still have no clue what the difference is between a Sunni and a Shia, nor do you care. You are, rather, proud of your treasonous idiocy.
And you have absolutely no clue about economics, finance, or physics... because those subjects require intelligence, and you have none.
Bwana
10-03-2009, 10:26 AM
LIAR. You loved the treason that was the War on Exclusively anti-Israel terror, the Iraq Treason, making OBL not a priority, flipping off allies of The Northern Alliance after deploying our troops in Afghan next to TNA to fight Taliban/AQ. You never complained one bit about W's big spending, the socialization of senior drugs etc.
And you still have no clue what the difference is between a Sunni and a Shia, nor do you care. You are, rather, proud of your treasonous idiocy.
And you have absolutely no clue about economics, finance, or physics... because those subjects require intelligence, and you have none.
LMAO
Dude, you have to be a dupe, because NO ONE can be this out in left field.
Keep throwing the shit balls........something may stick, rant boy! :thumb:
LMAO
Dude, you have to be a dupe, because NO ONE can be this out in left field.
Keep throwing the shit balls........something may stick, rant boy! :thumb:
Your "friends" list says it all... all of the big W supporters... and the Iraq Treason supporters...
stevieray
10-03-2009, 10:35 AM
Your "friends" list says it all... all of the big W supporters... and the Iraq Treason supporters...
penchief?
Bwana
10-03-2009, 10:37 AM
Your "friends" list says it all... all of the big W supporters... and the Iraq Treason supporters...
Umm no, your friends list says it all Sparky......
"TFG has not made any friends yet" Shocking!
Do you EVER post on the football board, or do you just hang out in the DC and toss shit balls? :hmmm:
Bwana
10-03-2009, 10:39 AM
penchief?
It has to be, he finally went over the edge. Can you say MELT DOWN? ROFL
SHTSPRAYER
10-03-2009, 10:42 AM
LIAR. You loved the treason that was the War on Exclusively anti-Israel terror, the Iraq Treason, making OBL not a priority, flipping off allies of The Northern Alliance after deploying our troops in Afghan next to TNA to fight Taliban/AQ. You never complained one bit about W's big spending, the socialization of senior drugs etc.
And you still have no clue what the difference is between a Sunni and a Shia, nor do you care. You are, rather, proud of your treasonous idiocy.
And you have absolutely no clue about economics, finance, or physics... because those subjects require intelligence, and you have none.
I'd like your take on the UN "food for oil" scam they were running with Iraq prior to the US invasion.
Reaper16
10-03-2009, 10:52 AM
penchief?
I've never seen the word "corporate" in a TFG post, so I don't think so.
KILLER_CLOWN
10-03-2009, 10:55 AM
penchief?
Couldn't a mod easily verify this? I don't think it's penchief.
I'd like your take on the UN "food for oil" scam they were running with Iraq prior to the US invasion.
That would be because, as a nitwit with a sub 30 IQ, you still do not understand the difference between the UN and the US. The UN oil for food was a UN problem, complete with Kofi Annan's kid getting a Mazarati kickback.
The duty of the US is not to police the policies of the UN. The US exists for the US, and if you think otherwise, you are free to move to Israel and live in the country you care about most. If you truly thought that UN violations were grounds for a US invasion, you would be pushing for the US to invade the world leader in UN violations = Israel. Hypocritical nitwit in every aspect you are...
I've never seen the word "corporate" in a TFG post, so I don't think so.
No, you've seen nothing but pure cheering of market forces, support for school vouchers, spending cuts, and everything else that must not be "conservative" because "conservative" W never pushed for them...
Umm no, your friends list says it all Sparky......
"TFG has not made any friends yet" Shocking!
Do you EVER post on the football board, or do you just hang out in the DC and toss shit balls? :hmmm:
I love both football and the United States, but I love the United States more, and I do not have the power to override Scott Pioli's fukkups...
and I have dozens of posts on the football board...
patteeu
10-03-2009, 12:23 PM
Bible thumping? LMAO You are soooooooo far off base Sparky, but keep running your pie hole.
He's a one trick pony. He says that to everyone. It's weird. I wonder what the guy is like in real life.
patteeu
10-03-2009, 12:27 PM
Umm no, your friends list says it all Sparky......
"TFG has not made any friends yet" Shocking!
Do you EVER post on the football board, or do you just hang out in the DC and toss shit balls? :hmmm:
He said he followed some scrub, rookie free agent here. Maybe he followed the guy in college or something. He was looking for info about the guy and came across ChiefsPlanet. He posted a few times in the Lounge and then he came over here where he's repeated the same nonsense over and over and outed himself as an antisemite and a guy who doesn't really understand much about anything.
patteeu
10-03-2009, 12:29 PM
penchief?
I don't think so.
patteeu
10-03-2009, 12:33 PM
No, you've seen nothing but pure cheering of market forces, support for school vouchers, spending cuts, and everything else that must not be "conservative" because "conservative" W never pushed for them...
CNN: Bush pushes for school vouchers (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/04/12/bush.speech/index.html) ROFL
I'm surprised you're for a big government program like school vouchers. Are you sure you're a "true conservative"?
He's a one trick pony. He says that to everyone. It's weird. I wonder what the guy is like in real life.
It really is difficult to believe anyone who is not a Bible Thumper with a sub 30 IQ or a Zionist could possibly still be defending W right now...
One would have to really hate the US to do that...
CNN: Bush pushes for school vouchers (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/04/12/bush.speech/index.html) ROFL
I'm surprised you're for a big government program like school vouchers. Are you sure you're a "true conservative"?
Yes, in April of 2001, W mouthed this
"President Bush told an intimate audience in Washington Thursday that he stands behind his campaign pledge to give parents more ability to remove their children from unsafe or academically inadequate public schools. "
Did he actually DO ANYTHING there??
Um...
NO
Pioli Zombie
10-03-2009, 12:48 PM
Yes, in April of 2001, W mouthed this
"President Bush told an intimate audience in Washington Thursday that he stands behind his campaign pledge to give parents more ability to remove their children from unsafe or academically inadequate public schools. "
Did he actually DO ANYTHING there??
Um...
NO
The traitor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted via Mobile Device
patteeu
10-03-2009, 12:50 PM
Yes, in April of 2001, W mouthed this
"President Bush told an intimate audience in Washington Thursday that he stands behind his campaign pledge to give parents more ability to remove their children from unsafe or academically inadequate public schools. "
Did he actually DO ANYTHING there??
Um...
NO
Sorry, dude. You're wrong again.
Bush school voucher plan for D.C. approved by Congress (http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-113856212.html)
A religious school voucher program proposed by the Bush administration for the District of Columbia has been approved by Congress.
The plan, the first federally funded voucher program, was included in an omnibus spending bill that passed the Senate on a 65 to 28 vote on Jan. 22. The bill earmarks $14 million annually for a school voucher program for low-income Washington, D.C., school children. At least 1,700 public school children will get vouchers worth as much as $7,500 to attend religious and other private schools. The majority of participating private schools will be Catholic.
The House approved the wide-ranging spending bill in December.
But I'm curious about why you support this government spending program? Are you a big government liberal?
max sleeper
10-03-2009, 12:55 PM
Hope! Change! Thanks Barry. :thumb:
The silver linings here are tough to find, at least according to this summary from IHS Global:
The September employment report signaled a painfully slow path to stabilization in the private employment market, and sharper declines in government jobs. It also suggested that the unemployment rate is likely to hit 10% by the turn of the year.
The leading indicators in the report were not promising. The workweek fell, and is now back at its June low. And temporary help jobs – while declining only fractionally – still haven’t moved into positive territory.
There was nothing to support the view that the economy will be adding jobs before the end of the year. And nothing to support the view that the consumer can sustain the spending increases that we saw in August – employment and hours worked were down, and hourly earnings only inched higher, implying that wage and salary incomes fell.
State and local governments have now shed 160,000 jobs over the past four months as budget cuts bite. This month, 29,000 of those losses came in education as the school year began. The education sector as a whole lost 46,000 jobs this month.
The economy has now lost 7.2 million jobs since the recession began – but the story is even worse than that. The BLS now tells us that it expects to revise down March 2009 employment by 824,000, based on a full employment count from unemployment insurance statistics. That implies that the total loss is now 8.0 million.
http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2009/10/02/september-jobs-report-263000-unemployment-at-98-percent/
Same level as it was under Reagan in 1983! But that does not matter?! Go Chiefs!
patteeu
10-03-2009, 12:57 PM
With any luck, one of the upcoming job losses will be Obama's.
KILLER_CLOWN
10-03-2009, 01:15 PM
With any luck, one of the upcoming job losses will be Obama's.
:LOL: I seriously doubt it.
SHTSPRAYER
10-03-2009, 03:26 PM
That would be because, as a nitwit with a sub 30 IQ, you still do not understand the difference between the UN and the US. The UN oil for food was a UN problem, complete with Kofi Annan's kid getting a Mazarati kickback.
The duty of the US is not to police the policies of the UN. The US exists for the US, and if you think otherwise, you are free to move to Israel and live in the country you care about most. If you truly thought that UN violations were grounds for a US invasion, you would be pushing for the US to invade the world leader in UN violations = Israel. Hypocritical nitwit in every aspect you are...
Earth calling.
Pioli Zombie
10-03-2009, 08:48 PM
The way Shitsprayer hates blacks and TFG hates Jews they remind me a couple of regular villians from a comic strip, like The Joker and The Penguin in Batman.
Posted via Mobile Device
KCTitus
10-03-2009, 08:50 PM
The way Shitsprayer hates blacks and TFG hates Jews they remind me a couple of regular villians from a comic strip, like The Joker and The Penguin in Batman.
Posted via Mobile Device
I was thinking Spy vs. Spy, but that's probably before your time
Over the past 4+ months, I've noticed significant growth in manufacturing.
Reaper16
10-04-2009, 12:10 AM
I was thinking Spy vs. Spy, but that's probably before your time
Who the fuck doesn't know Spy vs Spy?
RINGLEADER
10-04-2009, 08:58 AM
Obama is going to quickly learn that bigger government, higher taxes on those who create jobs, and more needless regulation isn't the solution to curbing high unemployment. Or maybe he won't. Based on what he says I think he believes what he has been doing is actually benefitting the economy when so much evidence points the other way.
mikey23545
10-04-2009, 10:19 AM
It really is difficult to believe anyone who is not a Bible Thumper with a sub 30 IQ or a Zionist could possibly still be defending W right now...
One would have to really hate the US to do that...
Come on. This persona has to be a spoof...Who are you really?
wild1
10-04-2009, 10:43 AM
Obama is going to quickly learn that bigger government, higher taxes on those who create jobs, and more needless regulation isn't the solution to curbing high unemployment.
It's common sense. You beat up on the people who create jobs, they create less jobs.
Of course, you have the guy he selected as his #2 saying we have to spend more to get out of debt. I know he was probably selected for the color of his skin and not the content of his political acumen, but it does say something about this administration's understanding.
banyon
10-04-2009, 10:50 AM
It's common sense. You beat up on the people who create jobs, they create less jobs.
Of course, you have the guy he selected as his #2 saying we have to spend more to get out of debt. I know he was probably selected for the color of his skin and not the content of his political acumen, but it does say something about this administration's understanding.
What does that mean exactly?
Joe Biden was the only white guy in Washington?
patteeu
10-04-2009, 11:01 AM
What does that mean exactly?
Joe Biden was the only white guy in Washington?
I would assume it means that a lot of people voted for Barack Obama because he was "articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking" black guy. "It's storybook, man." I'm sure there are plenty of liberals who would have voted for the democrat even if she was white, but IMO it's undeniable that Obama's skin color was an asset at the ideological margins.
Edit: I obviously misread it. Oops.
wild1
10-04-2009, 11:03 AM
What does that mean exactly?
Joe Biden was the only white guy in Washington?
That they felt they needed an old white guy on the ticket, because they see most of America as being racist.
Biden was the chaser.
SHTSPRAYER
10-04-2009, 11:21 AM
What a disgrace this guy is. What a sham. What a joke.
http://www.thepeoplescube.com/images/Medal_Order_of_Obama_160.gif
KCWolfman
10-04-2009, 04:26 PM
http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2009/10/02/september-jobs-report-263000-unemployment-at-98-percent/
I don't even need to read the replies on this one
1. Its not the dems fault, they inherited it.
2. The last thing to show recovery is unemployment.
3. The numbers don't reflect true America right now
ad naseum
What has been tried isn't working, period. For the last 2 years, nothing suggested by the POTUS (both parties) or run through a Democrat House and Senate has been nothing but abyssmal failures. Maybe we can finally learn the more an entity that produces nothing tries to dictate control of those that actually produce real world goods the more of a mess will be made.
Posted via Mobile Device
banyon
10-04-2009, 04:52 PM
That they felt they needed an old white guy on the ticket, because they see most of America as being racist.
Biden was the chaser.
You know, there are some other old white guys in Washington too.
Your comment still doesn't make any sense to me.
BigRedChief
10-08-2009, 07:11 AM
New jobless claims fall to 521K, lowest since Jan.
<CITE class=vcard>By CHRISTOPHER S. RUGABER, AP Economics Writer Christopher S. Rugaber, Ap Economics Writer </CITE><ABBR class=recenttimedate title=2009-10-08T05:48:34-0700>19 mins ago</ABBR>
WASHINGTON – The number of newly laid-off workers filing first-time claims for jobless benefits fell to the lowest level since early January, as layoffs ease a bit amid a fledgling economic recovery.
The fourth drop in new claims in five weeks is a sign the labor market is slowly healing. But employers are reluctant to hire new workers and the unemployment rate is expected to keep climbing well into next year.
The Labor Department said Thursday that new claims for unemployment insurance dropped last week to a seasonally adjusted 521,000, from the previous week's upwardly revised total of 554,000.
That's better than the 540,000 that Wall Street economists expected, according to a survey by Thomson Reuters.
The four-week average, which smooths fluctuations, fell to 539,750, the lowest since Jan. 17.
Economists closely watch initial claims, which are considered a gauge of layoffs and an indication of companies' willingness to hire new workers.
Thursday's total is the second lowest this year. Claims have been slowly declining since the spring, but remain well above the 325,000 that economists say is consistent with a healthy economy.
The number of people continuing to claim benefits declined by 72,000 to 6.04 million. Analysts expected continuing claims to rise slightly.
When federal emergency programs are included, the total number of jobless benefit recipients dropped by about 90,000 to 8.9 million in the week that ended Sept. 19, the latest data available. Congress has added up to 53 extra weeks of benefits on top of the 26 typically provided by the states, and is considering adding another 13 weeks.
Many analysts expect the economy grew as much as 3 percent in the July-September quarter, but most employers are expected to hold back on new hires while they wait to see if such growth can be maintained.
The unemployment rate rose to 9.8 percent in September from 9.7 percent, the department said last week, as employers cut 263,000 jobs. The recession, the worst since the 1930s, has eliminated a net total of 7.2 million jobs.
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said last week that even if the economy maintained a 3 percent growth rate for several quarters, unemployment would still be above 9 percent by the end of 2010.
More job cuts were announced this week. Thermo Fisher Scientific Inc., which makes industrial and scientific equipment, said it will close a plant in Dubuque, Iowa, next year, costing 350 jobs.
Among the states, California had the largest increase in claims, with 4,467, which it attributed to layoffs in the construction and service industries. Ohio, Illinois, Missouri and Tennessee had the next largest increases. State data lag the initial claims figures by one week.
New York had the largest drop in claims, with 2,253, which it attributed to fewer layoffs in construction and services. North Carolina, South Carolina, Arkansas, and Florida had the next largest declines.
SHTSPRAYER
10-08-2009, 07:40 AM
New jobless claims fall to 521K, lowest since Jan.
<CITE class=vcard>By CHRISTOPHER S. RUGABER, AP Economics Writer Christopher S. Rugaber, Ap Economics Writer </CITE><ABBR class=recenttimedate title=2009-10-08T05:48:34-0700>19 mins ago</ABBR>
WASHINGTON – The number of newly laid-off workers filing first-time claims for jobless benefits fell to the lowest level since early January, as layoffs ease a bit amid a fledgling economic recovery.
The fourth drop in new claims in five weeks is a sign the labor market is slowly healing. But employers are reluctant to hire new workers and the unemployment rate is expected to keep climbing well into next year.
The Labor Department said Thursday that new claims for unemployment insurance dropped last week to a seasonally adjusted 521,000, from the previous week's upwardly revised total of 554,000.
That's better than the 540,000 that Wall Street economists expected, according to a survey by Thomson Reuters.
The four-week average, which smooths fluctuations, fell to 539,750, the lowest since Jan. 17.
Economists closely watch initial claims, which are considered a gauge of layoffs and an indication of companies' willingness to hire new workers.
Thursday's total is the second lowest this year. Claims have been slowly declining since the spring, but remain well above the 325,000 that economists say is consistent with a healthy economy.
The number of people continuing to claim benefits declined by 72,000 to 6.04 million. Analysts expected continuing claims to rise slightly.
When federal emergency programs are included, the total number of jobless benefit recipients dropped by about 90,000 to 8.9 million in the week that ended Sept. 19, the latest data available. Congress has added up to 53 extra weeks of benefits on top of the 26 typically provided by the states, and is considering adding another 13 weeks.
Many analysts expect the economy grew as much as 3 percent in the July-September quarter, but most employers are expected to hold back on new hires while they wait to see if such growth can be maintained.
The unemployment rate rose to 9.8 percent in September from 9.7 percent, the department said last week, as employers cut 263,000 jobs. The recession, the worst since the 1930s, has eliminated a net total of 7.2 million jobs.
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said last week that even if the economy maintained a 3 percent growth rate for several quarters, unemployment would still be above 9 percent by the end of 2010.
More job cuts were announced this week. Thermo Fisher Scientific Inc., which makes industrial and scientific equipment, said it will close a plant in Dubuque, Iowa, next year, costing 350 jobs.
Among the states, California had the largest increase in claims, with 4,467, which it attributed to layoffs in the construction and service industries. Ohio, Illinois, Missouri and Tennessee had the next largest increases. State data lag the initial claims figures by one week.
New York had the largest drop in claims, with 2,253, which it attributed to fewer layoffs in construction and services. North Carolina, South Carolina, Arkansas, and Florida had the next largest declines.
That is awesome! People are still losing their jobs!
BigRedChief
10-08-2009, 11:55 AM
That is awesome! People are still losing their jobs!more of the same. America loses and you cheer as long as it helps take out Obama.
SHTSPRAYER
10-08-2009, 12:07 PM
more of the same. America loses and you cheer as long as it helps take out Obama.
Don't even try that BS.
:rolleyes:
wild1
10-08-2009, 12:13 PM
Don't even try that BS.
:rolleyes:
Why, you should know that since last November it's become very unpatriotic to voice dissent. You're out of line.
Reaper16
10-08-2009, 12:32 PM
more of the same. America loses and you cheer as long as it helps take out Obama.
Don't even try that BS.
:rolleyes:
Why, you should know that since last November it's become very unpatriotic to voice dissent. You're out of line.
I feel like I'm in bizarro land. Does anyone realize that we're all acting exactly the opposite of how we acted during the previous administration? We've each become what we previously hated.
SHTSPRAYER
10-08-2009, 12:35 PM
I feel like I'm in bizarro land. Does anyone realize that we're all acting exactly the opposite of how we acted during the previous administration? We've each become what we previously hated.
NO, I'm actually pointing out facts, and BRS doesn't like it but since he can't defend it he projects his BS on me.
500,000 people lost their job last month, and the media and other B.O. lapdogs like BRS are spinning it like it's good news. Then I make a sarcastic comment about it, and BRS says I'm happy about it.
wild1
10-08-2009, 12:35 PM
I feel like I'm in bizarro land. Does anyone realize that we're all acting exactly the opposite of how we acted during the previous administration? We've each become what we previously hated.
Well, superficially, it is amusing. But (even though everyone will say this and none of us will believe each other) I wasn't one of the ones (behaving the other way).
(the post you quote was made tongue-in-cheek)
SHTSPRAYER
10-08-2009, 12:36 PM
I feel like I'm in bizarro land. Does anyone realize that we're all acting exactly the opposite of how we acted during the previous administration? We've each become what we previously hated.
No, the only thing that has changed is the president. Moonbats are still dickbags and I'm still cool.
Garcia Bronco
10-08-2009, 01:35 PM
Blaming Obama for the current economic conditions requires the same amount of
Ahhh now don't forget that Obama was a part of the Congress from 2004 to 2008. Meaning he voted on legislation. So yes he is to blame, along with everyone else.
Stewie
10-08-2009, 02:41 PM
Any job loss number over 360K is a disaster. These numbers are absolutely ridiculous... AND they're artificially low due to the abuse of birth/death models in recent months. Those numbers used to be snickered at, now it's all out guffawing.
KC native
10-08-2009, 04:00 PM
Any job loss number over 360K is a disaster. These numbers are absolutely ridiculous... AND they're artificially low due to the abuse of birth/death models in recent months. Those numbers used to be snickered at, now it's all out guffawing.
:spock: The birth/death models haven't been adjusted since the beginning of Bush's term.
Stewie
10-08-2009, 04:10 PM
:spock: The birth/death models haven't been adjusted since the beginning of Bush's term.
Who cares? It's wrong. Obama = GWB? Whew! I thought this shit was serious or something.
SHTSPRAYER
10-24-2009, 04:16 PM
f'n moron
http://img.youtube.com/vi/q_Ou_w0H0lU/2.jpg
http://www.obamaisamoron.com/
BigRedChief
10-26-2009, 09:42 AM
Jobs outlook brightens
National Association for Business Economics says more U.S. firms are planning to hire and increase investment in the next six months.
By Ben Rooney, CNNMoney.com staff reporter
October 26, 2009: 7:10 AM ET
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- In another sign of economic recovery, U.S. companies are planning to hire and invest more in the near future, according to a survey released Monday.
The National Association for Business Economics said the number of employers planning to hire workers over the next six months exceeded the number expecting job cuts for the first time since the recession began in December 2007.
The survey of 78 NABE members also showed more companies increased capital spending during the third quarter of 2009 than cut spending. It was the first time that happened since October 2008.
"NABE's October 2009 Industry Survey provides new evidence that the U.S. recovery is underway," said William Strauss, a senior economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago.
NABE said job losses "appear to be slowly abating" with the percentage of firms cutting payrolls falling to 31% in the quarter from 36%. The percentage of firms adding jobs doubled from an all-time low of 6% to 12% in October.
Unemployment stands at a 26-year high of 9.8% in the United States. Economists surveyed by Briefing.com expect another 175,000 jobs were lost in October after employers shed 263,000 jobs in September.
Companies indicated that material costs continued to rise in the third quarter. But prices have also increased, which has allowed profits to improve, Strauss noted.
Credit conditions improved slightly, according to the survey, although many businesses reported that borrowing costs remain high.
NABE said all 78 members now expect U.S. gross domestic product, the broadest measure of economic activity, to be positive in 2010. A majority of respondents expect GDP to expand between 1% and 3% next year.
The government is expected to report Thursday that third-quarter gross domestic product grew at an annual rate of 3.2%, according to economists surveyed by Briefing.com. In the second quarter, GDP shrank at a 0.7% rate. http://i.cdn.turner.com/money/images/bug.gif (http://cnnmoney.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=Employment+outlook+is+positive+in+new+survey+-+Oct.+26%2C+2009&expire=-1&urlID=413432512&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmoney.cnn.com%2F2009%2F10%2F26%2Fnews%2Feconomy%2FNABE%2Findex.htm&#TOP)
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#cccccc></TD></TR><TR><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!--Bibliography End--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=font-cn></TD></TR><TR><TD class=font-cn>Find this article at:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/26/news/economy/NABE/index.htm
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
BigRedChief
10-26-2009, 09:44 AM
Economists forecast hiring, GDP increasing
Outlook improves as more companies appear willing to add staff near-term
The Associated Press
updated 11:08 p.m. CT, Sun., Oct . 25, 2009
<SCRIPT language=javascript> function UpdateTimeStamp(pdt) { var n = document.getElementById("udtD"); if(pdt != '' && n && window.DateTime) { var dt = new DateTime(); pdt = dt.T2D(pdt); if(dt.GetTZ(pdt)) {n.innerHTML = dt.D2S(pdt,(('false'.toLowerCase()=='false')?false:true));} } } UpdateTimeStamp('633921268940830000');</SCRIPT>
CHICAGO - Results from a new economic survey may ease concerns about rising unemployment and its effect on consumer spending, as forecasters say more employers appear willing to hire in the coming months.
The latest quarterly survey from the National Association for Business Economics, set for release on Monday, shows that unemployment is moderating. It also signals an improved hiring outlook over the next six months, which may help alleviate worries that the nation's unemployment rate will continue to jump and constrict consumer spending, the main driver of the U.S. economy.
The jobless rate currently stands at 9.8 percent and is estimated to rise above 10 percent this year or early next year. But William Strauss, a senior economist for the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, said that companies appear more willing to hire employees.
"Job losses have been moderating with an improved outlook for hiring over the next six months," Strauss said.
Responses from 78 NABE members working for the private sector and industry trade associations showed that the percentage of firms adding jobs doubled to 12 percent in October from an all-time low of 6 percent in July. Job losses appear to be slowly abating with the percentage of firms cutting payrolls falling to 31 percent from 36 percent, the survey said.
Twenty-four percent of those surveyed said they expect employment to rise over the next six months, compared with 18 percent in July. While 56 percent expect no change in employment, only 4 percent of respondents expect more layoffs, down sharply from 11 percent in July, according to the survey.
Meanwhile, none of the respondents expect negative gross domestic product growth next year. However, growth isn't expected to rebound sharply, with about 55 percent of respondents expecting real GDP will rise no more than 2 percent in 2010.
The latest quarterly survey also shows that more companies reported rising demand for their products, as industry demand rose for the first time in five quarters. The net rising index for industry demand, which measures the difference of those two numbers, improved to 23 percent in October from -5 percent in July.
Strongest growth was reported in the services sector, with 54 percent of respondents reporting higher demand. Finance, insurance and real estate also posted gains. Demand in transportation, utilities, information and communications did wane, but at a slower pace than the first half of the year.
Tight credit continues to hurt business, but not quite as badly, the survey showed. In October, 42 percent of respondents reported that credit conditions hurt business, down from 54 percent of respondents in July.
Capital spending improved slightly as 12 percent of respondents reported boosting expenditures in the last three months, up from 8 percent in January. But the majority of respondents, 56 percent, were leaving capital spending unchanged.
More companies are also seeing profit margins edge higher. Thirty-six percent of respondents said profit margins have risen, while 28 percent said they have declined. Another 36 percent said they were unchanged, meaning the net rising index was 9 percent, an improvement from July's -17 percent.
The October survey showed that 23 percent of respondents said firms raised prices, up from 8 percent in the July survey.
The NABE survey was conducted between Oct. 2 and Oct. 12.
© 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
<SCRIPT>var url=location.href;var i=url.indexOf('/did/') + 1;if(i==0){i=url.indexOf('/print/1/') + 1;}if(i==0){i=url.indexOf('&print=1');}if(i>0){url = url.substring(0,i);document.write('URL: '+url+' (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/'+url+')
');if(window.print){window.print()}else{alert('To print his page press Ctrl-P on your keyboard \nor choose print from your browser or device after clicking OK');}}</SCRIPT>URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33474275/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33474275/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/)
Amnorix
10-26-2009, 09:45 AM
I'm really astonished that people here think the economy should be able to rebound in a few months, considering just how bad it was/is.
patteeu
10-26-2009, 09:45 AM
Let us know when the unemployment rate gets back down to the 8.5% rate that the administration said their porkulus package would keep it below.
SHTSPRAYER
10-26-2009, 09:47 AM
I'm really astonished that people here think the economy should be able to rebound in a few months, considering just how bad it was/is.
It's been a year.
BigRedChief
10-26-2009, 09:49 AM
Let us know when the unemployment rate gets back down to the 8.5% rate that the administration said their porkulus package would keep it below.I agree. A long frikkin ways off from recovery. but when according to almost every source, in Sept.2008 our whole economy almost went into a depression to where we are now....at least we have pulled back from going over the cliff...for the moment.
patteeu
10-26-2009, 09:51 AM
I'm really astonished that people here think the economy should be able to rebound in a few months, considering just how bad it was/is.
The perception of "just how bad it was/is" is impacted by the fact that it hasn't rebounded yet. If the administration's assurances with respect to the porkulus package had come true, we wouldn't be looking at the economic problem the same way we do now, but they didn't. Based on their own analysis, their actions have led to an even greater unemployment problem than we would have faced without their intervention.
BigRedChief
10-26-2009, 10:00 AM
The perception of "just how bad it was/is" is impacted by the fact that it hasn't rebounded yet. If the administration's assurances with respect to the porkulus package had come true, we wouldn't be looking at the economic problem the same way we do now, but they didn't. Based on their own analysis, their actions have led to an even greater unemployment problem than we would have faced without their intervention.You and I both know that if the economy recovers Obama will get the credit, just like if it doesn't he will get the blame. Rightfully or wrongly, either way.
That being said I agree with your descripition of the stimuls package as full of pork. That was totally wrong for Pelosi to load that bill up with crap at the expense of infrastructure projects.
KC native
10-26-2009, 10:01 AM
The perception of "just how bad it was/is" is impacted by the fact that it hasn't rebounded yet. If the administration's assurances with respect to the porkulus package had come true, we wouldn't be looking at the economic problem the same way we do now, but they didn't. Based on their own analysis, their actions have led to an even greater unemployment problem than we would have faced without their intervention.
:spock:
BigRedChief
10-26-2009, 10:06 AM
:spock:
and not surprising. Big news everywhere else on news sites but one....guess which one.... The one that 22 people on this board think is fair and balanced......
http://www.foxnews.com/
Amnorix
10-26-2009, 10:07 AM
The perception of "just how bad it was/is" is impacted by the fact that it hasn't rebounded yet. If the administration's assurances with respect to the porkulus package had come true, we wouldn't be looking at the economic problem the same way we do now, but they didn't. Based on their own analysis, their actions have led to an even greater unemployment problem than we would have faced without their intervention.
Support?
SHTSPRAYER
10-26-2009, 10:09 AM
It just gets worse and worse. What a disaster.
patteeu
10-26-2009, 10:11 AM
You and I both know that if the economy recovers Obama will get the credit, just like if it doesn't he will get the blame. Rightfully or wrongly, either way.
That being said I agree with your descripition of the stimuls package as full of pork. That was totally wrong for Pelosi to load that bill up with crap at the expense of infrastructure projects.
Some kind of recovery is almost a certainty and he'll get the credit or blame for it. But every recovery isn't the same and there will be a rhetorical fight to define the recovery one way or the other unless it's such a dramatic improvement that it can't be denied. A jobless recovery with an anemic growth rate won't win him much positive credit although he and his blind followers will be trying to tell us about how he saved us from oblivion.
SHTSPRAYER
10-26-2009, 10:12 AM
....at least we have pulled back from going over the cliff...for the moment.
Oh don't worry, monkey boy is working on pushing us over the cliff.
HonestChieffan
10-26-2009, 10:13 AM
another month of fail to add to the others caused by Bush.
BigRedChief
10-26-2009, 10:13 AM
Some kind of recovery is almost a certainty and he'll get the credit or blame for it. But every recovery isn't the same and there will be a rhetorical fight to define the recovery one way or the other unless it's such a dramatic improvement that it can't be denied. A jobless recovery with an anemic growth rate won't win him much positive credit although he and his blind followers will be trying to tell us about how he saved us from oblivion.I can agree with all of this.
BigRedChief
10-26-2009, 10:14 AM
Oh don't worry, monkey boy is working on pushing us over the cliff.Thats not cool dude.
SHTSPRAYER
10-26-2009, 10:19 AM
You and I both know that if the economy recovers Obama will get the credit, just like if it doesn't he will get the blame. Rightfully or wrongly, either way.
That being said I agree with your descripition of the stimuls package as full of pork. That was totally wrong for Pelosi to load that bill up with crap at the expense of infrastructure projects.
Of course, Pelosi is the villian in all this. :rolleyes:
B.O. is just an honest bystander.
patteeu
10-26-2009, 10:19 AM
:spock:
Support?
http://theneophyte.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/June-Enemployment-Spike.jpg
The blue lines on this graph come from the analysis of the impact on jobs of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan (aka Porkulus) by two key members of Obama's economic team, Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein. The red line is the actual result which is worse than what Romer and Bernstein were telling us we'd face if we had done nothing at all.
SHTSPRAYER
10-26-2009, 10:20 AM
Thats not cool dude.
This is the filth B.O. admires
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/09d/harvard_actup/images/scumbags310_053.jpg
BigRedChief
10-26-2009, 10:24 AM
This is the filth B.O. admires
http://massresistance.org/docs/gen/0...essRelease.pdf
Doesn't matter what your opinion of him is. I gaurantee you calling an african american a "monkey boy" is a racist term. Try calling someone that name in person and see what happens.
SHTSPRAYER
10-26-2009, 10:27 AM
Doesn't matter what your opinion of him is. I gaurantee you calling an african american a "monkey boy" is a racist term. Try calling someone that name in person and see what happens.
I'd love to say it too Obama's face.
Tell me how you feel about that disgusting piece of "artwork" that Jennings was involved in, and B.O. knowing that about Jennings, and not only giving him a job, but putting him in charge of children.
SHTSPRAYER
10-26-2009, 10:28 AM
Doesn't matter what your opinion of him is.
Opinion? B.O. hired Kevin Jennings, an anti-catholic bigot.
KC native
10-26-2009, 10:29 AM
The blue lines on this graph come from the analysis of the impact on jobs of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan (aka Porkulus) by two key members of Obama's economic team, Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein. The red line is the actual result which is worse than what Romer and Bernstein were telling us we'd face if we had done nothing at all.
Ah, so you fault their ability to not be able to predict the future with perfect certainty? Man, if only psychics were real then you might have a legitimate beef.
I've maintained from the beginning that they were being rosy on their predictions however it would have been worse without the stimulus package.
patteeu
10-26-2009, 10:45 AM
Doesn't matter what your opinion of him is. I gaurantee you calling an african american a "monkey boy" is a racist term. Try calling someone that name in person and see what happens.
Please stop this. George W. Bush was called monkey boy on many occasions. The phrase doesn't magically turn into a racist phrase just because the target happens to have darker skin. We even had a poster here (Ugly Duck) who used the term on Bush on several occasions without the slightest rebuke from ANY current supporter of Barack Obama:
As long as Monkeyboy keeps it a commuted sentence instead of a pardon, Scooter can still claim the 5th. This is way better than a pardon for Scooter.
SHTSPRAYER
10-26-2009, 10:49 AM
Thats not cool dude.
Oh, but this is?
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/09d/harvard_actup/images/scumbags310_053.jpg
That piece of garbage you voted for and continue to toss his salad apparently thinks so.
patteeu
10-26-2009, 10:51 AM
Ah, so you fault their ability to not be able to predict the future without certainty? Man, if only psychics were real then you might have a legitimate beef.
I've maintained from the beginning that they were being rosy on their predictions however it would have been worse without the stimulus package.
Your theory that they were being rosy on their predictions makes no sense. You don't sell your agenda by underestimating the consequences of not adopting that agenda.
There are two possible ways to interpret this prediction, IMO.
1. The way I did in my previous post, i.e. that their porkulus led to more unemployment than we'd have had without it, or
2. That their predictions are so bad that we can't justify confidence in their economic prescriptions now or in the future.
mlyonsd
10-26-2009, 10:57 AM
The blue lines on this graph come from the analysis of the impact on jobs of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan (aka Porkulus) by two key members of Obama's economic team, Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein. The red line is the actual result which is worse than what Romer and Bernstein were telling us we'd face if we had done nothing at all.
There is a silver lining.
If Obama's economic team really knew what they were doing and could have predicted the actual unemployment rate the democrats would have ended up passing a 2 trillion dollar stimulus package instead of just 1.
KC native
10-26-2009, 10:58 AM
Your theory that they were being rosy on their predictions makes no sense. You don't sell your agenda by underestimating the consequences of not adopting that agenda.
There are two possible ways to interpret this prediction, IMO.
1. The way I did in my previous post, i.e. that their porkulus led to more unemployment than we'd have had without it, or
2. That their predictions are so bad that we can't justify confidence in their economic prescriptions now or in the future.
JFC Pat. Their rosy predictions mean they were assuming that things were better and would be better than they were/are.
Second, Predictions are just that, predictions. There is a binary outcome. Either it was wrong or it was right. Putting weight into one prediction just so you can throw out anything of value that they put forth is just putting on partisan blinders so you can continue your dead end parade.
Finally, your two options are, surprise surprise, your favorite logical fallacy, a false choice.
SHTSPRAYER
10-26-2009, 11:02 AM
Oh, but this is?
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/09d/harvard_actup/images/scumbags310_053.jpg
That piece of garbage you voted for and continue to toss his salad apparently thinks so.
Nothing to say, right BRC?
I'd be haning my head in shame if I was you.
HonestChieffan
10-26-2009, 11:04 AM
JFC Pat. Their rosy predictions mean they were assuming that things were better and would be better than they were/are.
Second, Predictions are just that, predictions. There is a binary outcome. Either it was wrong or it was right. Putting weight into one prediction just so you can throw out anything of value that they put forth is just putting on partisan blinders so you can continue your dead end parade.
Finally, your two options are, surprise surprise, your favorite logical fallacy, a false choice.
Two easy conclusions:
If you dont know what you are talking about, don't make predictions. Clearly Obamas folks on every example of forcasting have been a failure. No business, none, can survive if the forecasts done to drive the business its investments, planning production and all the rest are not at least close. These people can not get it directionally accurate. Epic Fail.
Second conclusion is that defending this sort of horrific performance makes you look more sappy than ever.
KC native
10-26-2009, 11:09 AM
Two easy conclusions:
If you dont know what you are talking about, don't make predictions. Clearly Obamas folks on every example of forcasting have been a failure. No business, none, can survive if the forecasts done to drive the business its investments, planning production and all the rest are not at least close. These people can not get it directionally accurate. Epic Fail.
Second conclusion is that defending this sort of horrific performance makes you look more sappy than ever.
:shake: Predictions are just guesses. The best economic forecasters will be right slightly more than half the time. Putting weight into the numbers of the prediction as opposed to the actual analytical work just demonstrates a weak mind. There is a phrase in investing that I hold dear and you should too, "It's better to be approximately right than precisely wrong."
HonestChieffan
10-26-2009, 11:15 AM
Predictions are just guesses."
That is all you needed to say. Another example of your lack of any understanding on a subject before you wade in to your neck and drown in your own stupidity.
patteeu
10-26-2009, 11:16 AM
JFC Pat. Their rosy predictions mean they were assuming that things were better and would be better than they were/are.
Second, Predictions are just that, predictions. There is a binary outcome. Either it was wrong or it was right. Putting weight into one prediction just so you can throw out anything of value that they put forth is just putting on partisan blinders so you can continue your dead end parade.
Finally, your two options are, surprise surprise, your favorite logical fallacy, a false choice.
I wish you'd read a book or take a course in logic so you'd quit mislabeling things as false choices. I didn't present a false choice, I presented my opinion as to the possible ways to interpret the administration's unemployment predictions in light of the actual results. There may be other ways to interpret them, but IMO they aren't reasonable (for example, they could have just been random predictions developed by undergraduate interns during a late night drinking session and signed off on by their incompetent superiors). You're welcome to try to come up with something and make a case for it if you want, but I don't think you're going to have much success.
KC native
10-26-2009, 11:18 AM
That is all you needed to say. Another example of your lack of any understanding on a subject before you wade in to your neck and drown in your own stupidity.
ROFL Ah that's rich. I think it's clear as to who has an idea of what's what wrt economic matters and who simply parrots what they find on RWNJ sites.
patteeu
10-26-2009, 11:19 AM
:shake: Predictions are just guesses. The best economic forecasters will be right slightly more than half the time. Putting weight into the numbers of the prediction as opposed to the actual analytical work just demonstrates a weak mind. There is a phrase in investing that I hold dear and you should too, "It's better to be approximately right than precisely wrong."
LMAO WTF is wrong with you, naive? These "guesses" weren't even close (much less approximately right). They missed by almost 25% (so far).
KC native
10-26-2009, 11:21 AM
I wish you'd read a book or take a course in logic so you'd quit mislabeling things as false choices. I didn't present a false choice, I presented my opinion as to the possible ways to interpret the administration's unemployment predictions in light of the actual results. There may be other ways to interpret them, but IMO they aren't reasonable (for example, they could have just been random predictions developed by undergraduate interns during a late night drinking session and signed off on by their incompetent superiors). You're welcome to try to come up with something and make a case for it if you want, but I don't think you're going to have much success.
Perhaps you should refresh your studies on logic because you wrote.
There are two possible ways to interpret this prediction, IMO.
1. The way I did in my previous post, i.e. that their porkulus led to more unemployment than we'd have had without it, or
2. That their predictions are so bad that we can't justify confidence in their economic prescriptions now or in the future.
And here's the definition of False choice
The logical fallacy of false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, the either-or fallacy) involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are other options. Closely related are failing to consider a range of options and the tendency to think in extremes, called black-and-white thinking. Strictly speaking, the prefix "di" in "dilemma" means "two". When a list of more than two choices is offered, but there are other choices not mentioned, then the fallacy is called the fallacy of false choice, or the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses.
False dilemma can arise intentionally, when fallacy is used in an attempt to force a choice ("If you are not with us, you are against us.") But the fallacy can arise simply by accidental omission—possibly through a form of wishful thinking or ignorance—rather than by deliberate deception ("I thought we were friends, but all my friends were at my apartment last night and you weren't there.")
When two alternatives are presented, they are often, though not always, two extreme points on some spectrum of possibilities. This can lend credence to the larger argument by giving the impression that the options are mutually exclusive, even though they need not be. Furthermore, the options are typically presented as being collectively exhaustive, in which case the fallacy can be overcome, or at least weakened, by considering other possibilities, or perhaps by considering a whole spectrum of possibilities, as in fuzzy logic.
HonestChieffan
10-26-2009, 11:26 AM
LMAO WTF is wrong with you, naive? These "guesses" weren't even close (much less approximately right). They missed by almost 25% (so far).
He has no idea what hes yammering about.
patteeu
10-26-2009, 11:45 AM
Perhaps you should refresh your studies on logic because you wrote.
And here's the definition of False choice
I've explained this to you before. I'm not telling you that you have to draw the same conclusion I've drawn (but it's up to you to come up with a 3rd way that makes sense). I'm telling you that after considering as many of the infinite possibilities that might theoretically exist, those are the only two options that make any sense to me.
Velvet_Jones
10-26-2009, 03:09 PM
Where is TFG? He must be at the economics-finance-physics circle jerk convention this afternoon.
InChiefsHell
10-27-2009, 05:05 AM
Where is TFG? He must be at the economics-finance-physics circle jerk convention this afternoon.
Wherever he is, he probably thinks the jews there really suck...
Saul Good
10-27-2009, 11:59 AM
Ah, so you fault their ability to not be able to predict the future with perfect certainty? Man, if only psychics were real then you might have a legitimate beef.
I've maintained from the beginning that they were being rosy on their predictions however it would have been worse without the stimulus package.
This is genius. You hire someone to do a job based on his promises. He doesn't fulfill said promises, and you give him a pass on it because he couldn't be expected to predict the future.
Let's say that Todd Haley promised that the Chiefs would make the playoffs within 3 years if he was hired. 3 years later, we have gotten continually worse under his leadership. Would you give him a pass because he couldn't be expected to predict the future, or would you fire him because of his inability to manipulate the present?
KC native
10-27-2009, 02:10 PM
This is genius. You hire someone to do a job based on his promises. He doesn't fulfill said promises, and you give him a pass on it because he couldn't be expected to predict the future.
Let's say that Todd Haley promised that the Chiefs would make the playoffs within 3 years if he was hired. 3 years later, we have gotten continually worse under his leadership. Would you give him a pass because he couldn't be expected to predict the future, or would you fire him because of his inability to manipulate the present?
:shake: Nope, again you show your ass. Go back and read my posting history. I have always stated and continue to maintain that presidents have very little to do with the economy. In this instance the economy had a major spending shortfall rather than let that accelerate and become a negative feedback loop they passed the stimulus package. Now the true effects of the stimulus package won't be evident for a least a few more quarters. I have never said that the stimulus package would save the economy however at this point it does appear that it did help to halt the slide and have the economy flatten out.
Beyond that You're blaming Obama for the work of two economists. Well, I hate to break it to you but Obama wasn't the one crunching the numbers. Obama relied on their analysis and in this instance it was wrong on the actual unemployment numbers.
Finally, I like the Haley red herring. It's quite awesome. :rolleyes: If Obama had been here 3 years and the unemployment rate continued to be much higher than he said then it would be a different story. At the time the stimulus package was passed he had been in office for 2 MONTHS so you're not even trying to compare apples to apples. You'd just rather engage in ad hominem attacks and avoid any type of substance.
ROYC75
10-27-2009, 02:26 PM
I don't blame Obama for the economy now, but the jobless rate now, this winter and spring is part of his problem. The stimulus was geared up for taking care of people without work, banks bailouts, corporate bailouts than creating jobs. Jobs now was the biggest thing he could have done and cut taxes. He hands out free money to people and corporate America......Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
His taxing and spending us into oblivion is a major concern for me and should be for every American citizen. Crap, the whole world is worried of the American dollar falling.
Saul Good
10-27-2009, 02:35 PM
:shake: Nope, again you show your ass. Go back and read my posting history. I have always stated and continue to maintain that presidents have very little to do with the economy. In this instance the economy had a major spending shortfall rather than let that accelerate and become a negative feedback loop they passed the stimulus package. Now the true effects of the stimulus package won't be evident for a least a few more quarters. I have never said that the stimulus package would save the economy however at this point it does appear that it did help to halt the slide and have the economy flatten out.
Beyond that You're blaming Obama for the work of two economists. Well, I hate to break it to you but Obama wasn't the one crunching the numbers. Obama relied on their analysis and in this instance it was wrong on the actual unemployment numbers.
Finally, I like the Haley red herring. It's quite awesome. :rolleyes: If Obama had been here 3 years and the unemployment rate continued to be much higher than he said then it would be a different story. At the time the stimulus package was passed he had been in office for 2 MONTHS so you're not even trying to compare apples to apples. You'd just rather engage in ad hominem attacks and avoid any type of substance.
Obama is the leader. He loves to throw people under the bus, and you are just carrying his water by blaming this on 2 economists. He made promises, and he hasn't delivered. In fact, we are far worse off than his worst case scenario. A president can't save an economy, but he can wreck it.
patteeu
10-27-2009, 02:55 PM
:shake: Nope, again you show your ass. Go back and read my posting history. I have always stated and continue to maintain that presidents have very little to do with the economy. In this instance the economy had a major spending shortfall rather than let that accelerate and become a negative feedback loop they passed the stimulus package. Now the true effects of the stimulus package won't be evident for a least a few more quarters. I have never said that the stimulus package would save the economy however at this point it does appear that it did help to halt the slide and have the economy flatten out.
Beyond that You're blaming Obama for the work of two economists. Well, I hate to break it to you but Obama wasn't the one crunching the numbers. Obama relied on their analysis and in this instance it was wrong on the actual unemployment numbers.
Finally, I like the Haley red herring. It's quite awesome. :rolleyes: If Obama had been here 3 years and the unemployment rate continued to be much higher than he said then it would be a different story. At the time the stimulus package was passed he had been in office for 2 MONTHS so you're not even trying to compare apples to apples. You'd just rather engage in ad hominem attacks and avoid any type of substance.
I agree with one thing. Obama appears to have surrounded himself with incompetents and other undesirables.
patteeu
10-27-2009, 02:57 PM
I don't blame Obama for the economy now, but the jobless rate now, this winter and spring is part of his problem. The stimulus was geared up for taking care of people without work, banks bailouts, corporate bailouts than creating jobs. Jobs now was the biggest thing he could have done and cut taxes. He hands out free money to people and corporate America......Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
His taxing and spending us into oblivion is a major concern for me and should be for every American citizen. Crap, the whole world is worried of the American dollar falling.
Good point. No one who was calling out George W. Bush for excessive spending has any business supporting this kind of fiscal irresponsibility from our new leader.
vBulletin® v3.8.0, Copyright ©2000-2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.