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View Full Version : Chiefs Vrabel and Hali are studs!


Count Alex's Losses
10-18-2009, 02:57 PM
One sack apiece today! We haven't seen a pass rush like this since the days of Derrick Thomas and Neil Smith!

Munson
10-18-2009, 02:58 PM
Hali gets a safety!!!:clap:

Count Alex's Losses
10-18-2009, 02:58 PM
Vrabel and Hali keyed the Chiefs win today. Constant pressure dumped Jason Campbell on the bench and held the Redskins to 6 points.

WOW!!!

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-18-2009, 02:59 PM
"Ode to the Republic of Liberia"

Count Alex's Losses
10-18-2009, 02:59 PM
"Ode to the Republic of Liberia"

THE PATRIOT WAY!

kcchiefsus
10-18-2009, 03:01 PM
They better have some sacks going up against the tackles they were up against. Nonetheless, good job on their parts.

TheGuardian
10-18-2009, 03:02 PM
Hali - 3 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 1 safety

Yeah he sucks and will never be able to make the transition to linebacker.

;)

EyePod
10-18-2009, 03:12 PM
I did hate when Vrabel missed that tackle on the huge run by portis though... I'll let him go for that hit on Collins in the endzone right after he threw it... God I love safeties....

ArrowheadHawk
10-18-2009, 03:16 PM
Defense was huge today.

Valiant
10-18-2009, 03:23 PM
They played outstanding today, but the team is still a long way to being good.. This is a good step forward, hopefully they build on it and do the same against a good opponent..

Mecca
10-18-2009, 03:44 PM
On the positive side atleast the defense managed to not make an inept unit look good. That's progress.

crispystl420
10-18-2009, 03:48 PM
On the positive side atleast the defense managed to not make an inept unit look good. That's progress.

LMAO

FringeNC
10-18-2009, 03:48 PM
One thing I notice is when our D dances on the line, I cannot predict who is blitzing for the first time in YEARS.

Coach
10-18-2009, 03:48 PM
On the positive side atleast the defense managed to not make an inept unit look good. That's progress.

No way. A positive post from Mecca?

Lord, you can take me now. I have seen everything.

Mecca
10-18-2009, 03:48 PM
LMAO

I was laughing at how inept both offenses were in the game, it was painful to watch.

BossChief
10-18-2009, 03:55 PM
One sack apiece today! We haven't seen a pass rush like this since the days of Derrick Thomas and Neil Smith!

If we had vintage Neil and Derrick today, they would have racked up 7 sacks or more between them.

Hali and Vrabel had a good game and it did key the defense but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

Turk Mcbride had 1.5 sacks today, he is no Neil Smith either.

Easy 6
10-18-2009, 03:57 PM
Sounds like Tamba went off today & i missed it at a family reunion.

VIVA TAMBA!

VIVA VICTORY!

BossChief
10-18-2009, 04:10 PM
Sounds like Tamba went off today & i missed it at a family reunion.

VIVA TAMBA!

VIVA VICTORY!

he was a beast today!

If he was a half a step faster he would have had three or four sacks today.

crispystl420
10-18-2009, 04:28 PM
I was laughing at how inept both offenses were in the game, it was painful to watch.

Agreed, it was a brutal game to watch. A win is a win though!

Easy 6
10-18-2009, 04:29 PM
he was a beast today!

If he was a half a step faster he would have had three or four sacks today.

Football has such a strange hold on me, being able to finally savor a victory & knowing Tamba took another step today...puts me in a better mood than it probably should.

TheGuardian
10-18-2009, 04:31 PM
he was a beast today!

If he was a half a step faster he would have had three or four sacks today.

Totally. Tamba would already have 6 or 7 sacks if he had that extra step or if the middle of the defense could collapse the pocket a little better.

I actually think that Tamba is going to be a very good outside linebacker, and better at that spot than he was a left end. Even his drops look good. He's certainly making a lot of "experts" on here look stupid.

rad
10-18-2009, 04:48 PM
Can we play Washington every week?

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-18-2009, 04:49 PM
Totally. Tamba would already have 6 or 7 sacks if he had that extra step or if the middle of the defense could collapse the pocket a little better.

I actually think that Tamba is going to be a very good outside linebacker, and better at that spot than he was a left end. Even his drops look good. He's certainly making a lot of "experts" on here look stupid.

So, Tamba would have more sacks if he were a better player.

Thanks for the amazing analysis, Retardian.

OnTheWarpath58
10-18-2009, 04:53 PM
So, Tamba would have more sacks if he were a better player.

Thanks for the amazing analysis, Retardian.

LMAO

TheGuardian
10-18-2009, 05:04 PM
So, Tamba would have more sacks if he were a better player.

Thanks for the amazing analysis, Retardian.

Yeah because that's what I totally wrote Melt Down Jenkins.

Notice the comment about the middle of our defense.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-18-2009, 05:06 PM
Yeah because that's what I totally wrote Melt Down Jenkins.

Notice the comment about the middle of our defense.

Notice the comment about "if he were a half-step faster".

TheGuardian
10-18-2009, 05:15 PM
Notice the comment about "if he were a half-step faster".

The middle of the defense gives him that half step because the QB can't hold the ball as long or step up as easily.

Thanks for playing Melt Down.

booger
10-18-2009, 05:26 PM
I admit i was skeptical if Hali would have a spot in the 34. I thought just a nickel DE was in the cards for him. He has worked very hard at it and it's paying off. Playing at a lighter weight has also done him some good.

Another who i thought would struggle to find a place is Demo Williams. He hasn't been perfect but holds up well against the run and is making the most of his opportunity that DJ's inconsistancy is giving him. Belcher too.

milkman
10-18-2009, 06:46 PM
So let me see if I understand this.

Hali had a sack/safety and a couple of pressures against a backup tackle and did show some progress in coverage, but was virtually invisible for the rest of the game, and we have a thread sucking him off?

OnTheWarpath58
10-18-2009, 07:01 PM
So let me see if I understand this.

Hali had a sack/safety and a couple of pressures against a backup tackle and did show some progress in coverage, but was virtually invisible for the rest of the game, and we have a thread sucking him off?

Only at ChiefsPlanet.

Easy 6
10-18-2009, 07:07 PM
So let me see if I understand this.

Hali had a sack/safety and a couple of pressures against a backup tackle and did show some progress in coverage, but was virtually invisible for the rest of the game, and we have a thread sucking him off?

Have you enjoyed anything that he's done?

If so, do you feel guilty about it?

Maybe we should ignore any positives & continue to piss on him at every f***ing opportunity.

Red Beans
10-18-2009, 07:10 PM
Football has such a strange hold on me, being able to finally savor a victory & knowing Tamba took another step today...puts me in a better mood than it probably should.

This is the absolute truth

milkman
10-18-2009, 07:10 PM
Have you enjoyed anything that he's done?

If so, do you feel guilty about it?

Maybe we should ignore any positives & continue to piss on him at every f***ing opportunity.

I've made some positive comments about Hali, and have acknowledged that he has played better than I expected, but at the same time, there is absolutely no way in hell I'm going ot call him a stud.

He's playing well enough to not be a total failure, but he hasn't done nearly enough to make me think he's anything other than a solid backup in the future.

Maybe he continues to progress and proves he's more than a backup, but he sure as hell isn't there yet.

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
10-18-2009, 07:11 PM
So let me see if I understand this.

Hali had a sack/safety and a couple of pressures against a backup tackle and did show some progress in coverage, but was virtually invisible for the rest of the game, and we have a thread sucking him off?

Strange, I saw a completely different game.

Hali was active and quite visible to those of us at the game. I saw a number of pressures from Hali as well as the sack and the safety.

So, yeah, he deserves some praise for today.

But, don't let me stop the negativity.

OnTheWarpath58
10-18-2009, 07:13 PM
Strange, I saw a completely different game.

Hali was active and quite visible to those of us at the game. I saw a number of pressures from Hali as well as three sacks and a safety.

So, yeah, he deserves some praise for today.

But, don't let me stop the negativity.

Forgive me for questioning your judgment, but you leave me no choice, considering he only had 1 sack. (the safety)

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009101807/2009/REG6/chiefs@redskins#tab:analyze

Easy 6
10-18-2009, 07:13 PM
I've made some positive comments about Hali, and have acknowledged that he has played better than I expected, but at the same time, there is absolutely no way in hell I'm going ot call him a stud.

He's playing well enough to not be a total failure, but he hasn't done nearly enough to make me think he's anything other than a solid backup in the future.

Maybe he continues to progress and proves he's more than a backup, but he sure as hell isn't there yet.

In fairness to GoChiefs, i think the thread title was made half in jest...just to stir it up & it worked.

milkman
10-18-2009, 07:14 PM
Strange, I saw a completely different game.

Hali was active and quite visible to those of us at the game. I saw a number of pressures from Hali as well as the sack and the safety.

So, yeah, he deserves some praise for today.

But, don't let me stop the negativity.

Maybe we did see things differently.

Looks liked the backup LT owned him for most of the game.

Mecca
10-18-2009, 07:14 PM
The Kansas City Chiefs where not being a total abortion of a failure will get you praise.

OnTheWarpath58
10-18-2009, 07:15 PM
Maybe we did see things differently.

Looks liked the backup LT owned him for most of the game.

I saw what you saw.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-18-2009, 07:16 PM
The Kansas City Chiefs where not being a total abortion of a failure will get you praise.

"Where ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise".

TheGuardian
10-18-2009, 07:18 PM
I saw what you saw.

That's because you two MF'ers are blind and don't know shit. So even if you could see you wouldn't know WTF you were looking at.

TheGuardian
10-18-2009, 07:19 PM
The Kansas City Chiefs where not being a total abortion of a failure will get you praise.

Says the fucktard that screamed all offseason that Hali would be a complete failure at outside linebacker.

How'd your girl Sanchez play today?

milkman
10-18-2009, 07:20 PM
In fairness to GoChiefs, i think the thread title was made half in jest...just to stir it up & it worked.

Most may find this surprising, but Hal is just the kind of player I root strongly for.

I hope like hell that he does turn it up and become a stud out there, because he works as hard as anyone to do the best he can, and doesn't attempt to draw attention to himself.

He's a great person as near as I can tell, and I really hope he becomes a great player.

I really like the guy.

And you know with that work ethic and desire, he might well be able to achieve that.

OnTheWarpath58
10-18-2009, 07:21 PM
That's because you two MF'ers are blind and don't know shit. So even if you could see you wouldn't know WTF you were looking at.

How was the view from the bench?

Mecca
10-18-2009, 07:21 PM
The really low standards set for Hali have now made some people act like he's succeeding to a great level..

Elvis Dumervil is succeeding to a great level, Tamba Hali is ok.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-18-2009, 07:22 PM
That's because you two MF'ers are blind and don't know shit. So even if you could see you wouldn't know WTF you were looking at.

They know that your bitch ass couldn't get on the field in DII, so there's that.

milkman
10-18-2009, 07:23 PM
The really low standards set for Hali have now made some people act like he's succeeding to a great level..

Elvis Dumervil is succeeding to a great level, Tamba Hali is ok.

In fairness, the Donkeys did a better job of putting Dumervill in a position to succeed, But Dumervill does have more natural athleticism and speed to build on.

OnTheWarpath58
10-18-2009, 07:23 PM
They know that your bitch ass couldn't get on the field in DII, so there's that.

I played at the next level, but don't want to talk about it. /Retardian.

Mecca
10-18-2009, 07:24 PM
I still have a really hard time believing you can field a top notch defense with Tamba Hali as an important player.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-18-2009, 07:24 PM
I played at the next level, but don't want to talk about it. /Retardian.

Fuck, High School is the next level in comparison to a lot of DII schools.

TheGuardian
10-18-2009, 07:26 PM
****, High School is the next level in comparison to a lot of DII schools.

Only a dumbass MF'er who had never stepped onto the field would say such complete nosense.

that'd be you BTW. The dumbass MF'er. Just in case you missed it.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-18-2009, 07:30 PM
Only a dumbass MF'er who had never stepped onto the field would say such complete nosense.

that'd be you BTW. The dumbass MF'er. Just in case you missed it.

Oh, I played. I also didn't lie about the level that I played on, or claim to play beyond a level I did. I was the Tom Waddle of a shitty high school team, if Waddle got on the field less. I wouldn't have gotten offers to play fucking street ball, but I also didn't pawn off my experience @ the next level with some sort of faux humility.

milkman
10-18-2009, 07:31 PM
Only a dumbass MF'er who had never stepped onto the field would say such complete nosense.

that'd be you BTW. The dumbass MF'er. Just in case you missed it.

In case you missed it, nobody respects the opinions you formed while sitting on the bench in JUCO football.

ChiefsCountry
10-18-2009, 07:37 PM
In case you missed it, nobody respects the opinions you formed while sitting on the bench in JUCO football.

No he played at JUCO, just sat his ass on the bench at Central Missouri.

Easy 6
10-18-2009, 07:54 PM
1/2 the tackles & 1 more sack than Terrell Suggs.

6 less tackles, 3 less sacks than Aaron Kampman.

4 less tackles, 1 more sack than Demarcus Ware.

Those numbers tell me, that he's hanging in there with other good OLB's.

I havent seen one Hali defender say 'OMG HE'S GREAT!', but anytime something good in any way is mentioned, it turns into being told that it means absolutely nothing & that i should not like him or see any potential whatsoever.

boogblaster
10-18-2009, 08:05 PM
Both had good games today ... hopefully it continues ....

TheGuardian
10-18-2009, 08:05 PM
Oh, I played. I also didn't lie about the level that I played on, or claim to play beyond a level I did. I was the Tom Waddle of a shitty high school team, if Waddle got on the field less. I wouldn't have gotten offers to play ****ing street ball, but I also didn't pawn off my experience @ the next level with some sort of faux humility.

I never lied either. It's just blowhard MF'ers like you that like to tell yourself that so that you feel better.

Chiefaholic
10-18-2009, 08:53 PM
In hopes of avoiding the typical BS on this board, Tamba played a respectable game today despite being against a back-up. But, that's not criticizing the back-up either. There's not a lot of men in the NFL that would bench Samuals at LT.

It's nice to see the defense look respectable, and Tamba played a major role in the outcome.

OnTheWarpath58
10-18-2009, 08:54 PM
In hopes of avoiding the typical BS on this board, Tamba played a respectable game today despite being against a back-up. But, that's not criticizing the back-up either. There's not a lot of men in the NFL that would bench Samuals at LT.

It's nice to see the defense look respectable, and Tamba played a major role in the outcome.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2gwgp4j.jpg

Bench?

Mecca
10-18-2009, 08:56 PM
Getting injured and not playing means he got benched I guess, odd logic.

Coach
10-18-2009, 08:56 PM
In hopes of avoiding the typical BS on this board, Tamba played a respectable game today despite being against a back-up. But, that's not criticizing the back-up either. There's not a lot of men in the NFL that would bench Samuals at LT.

It's nice to see the defense look respectable, and Tamba played a major role in the outcome.

Samuals was injured, you know?

blazzin311
10-18-2009, 09:42 PM
Most may find this surprising, but Hal is just the kind of player I root strongly for.

I hope like hell that he does turn it up and become a stud out there, because he works as hard as anyone to do the best he can, and doesn't attempt to draw attention to himself.

He's a great person as near as I can tell, and I really hope he becomes a great player.

I really like the guy.

And you know with that work ethic and desire, he might well be able to achieve that.


This! :clap:

SenselessChiefsFan
10-18-2009, 09:54 PM
I've made some positive comments about Hali, and have acknowledged that he has played better than I expected, but at the same time, there is absolutely no way in hell I'm going ot call him a stud.

He's playing well enough to not be a total failure, but he hasn't done nearly enough to make me think he's anything other than a solid backup in the future.

Maybe he continues to progress and proves he's more than a backup, but he sure as hell isn't there yet.


I see a cornerstone of the defense that just needs to be surrounded by more talent.

No way he is a backup.

stevieray
10-18-2009, 09:56 PM
dude sealed the win.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-18-2009, 09:57 PM
I still have a really hard time believing you can field a top notch defense with Tamba Hali as an important player.

Not surprised at your inability to see reality.

philfree
10-18-2009, 09:59 PM
dude sealed the win.

And that's something no player has been able to do for us in long time.


PhilFree:arrow:

stevieray
10-18-2009, 10:00 PM
And that's something no player has been able to do for us in long time.


PhilFree:arrow:
yup, it was like whoa! right on!

RedThat
10-18-2009, 10:01 PM
Lets hope these type of plays can build confidence in Hali.

Mecca
10-18-2009, 10:01 PM
If Tamba Hali is a cornerstone of your defense...be prepared to be ranked in the 20's.

RedThat
10-18-2009, 10:02 PM
If Tamba Hali is a cornerstone of your defense...be prepared to be ranked in the 20's.

Nobody is saying he has to be a cornerstone. Lets just hope he can gain some confidence and make these type of plays again. Little by little.

Mecca
10-18-2009, 10:04 PM
Nobody is saying he has to be a cornerstone. Lets just hope he can gain some confidence and make these type of plays again. Little by little.

Did you miss that post by sensible?

SenselessChiefsFan
10-18-2009, 10:05 PM
If Tamba Hali is a cornerstone of your defense...be prepared to be ranked in the 20's.

We'll see, because he will be here a while.

He has no one rushing oposite him that has to be respected. The Chiefs are starting to get some production from Dorsey, but NT and the other DE are not disruptive.

The ILB's are pathetic and the safteties suck.

And, he still makes plays. He is still all over the field.

If he had some more talent around him.... he would be even better.

I am not saying pro bowler, but he is a solid young player that doesn't need to be replaced.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-18-2009, 10:06 PM
Did you miss that post by sensible?

Hey, haven't seen you on the Sanchez thread.... did I miss it?

Mecca
10-18-2009, 10:07 PM
Ok if you're going to amend your post to saying hey he's an alright complimentary player if we get better talent out there and he's not a pro bowler..

That's far different than saying he's a cornerstone.

RedThat
10-18-2009, 10:09 PM
Did you miss that post by sensible?

Didn't see it

SenselessChiefsFan
10-18-2009, 10:15 PM
Ok if you're going to amend your post to saying hey he's an alright complimentary player if we get better talent out there and he's not a pro bowler..

That's far different than saying he's a cornerstone.

I think a cornerstone is a solid piece that you can build around.

He is young, plays well, plays hard, is a leader, and there is no need to replace him.

He isn't a 'complimentary' player any more than any other player is 'complimentary'.

He isn't a 'problem' on defense. About seven other guys need to be replaced before him for sure.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-18-2009, 10:17 PM
I think it is funny that Mecca feels better about bashing Hali, whom had a game sealing safety than supporting his boy Sanchez in the other thread.

All you other parrots are over there taking all your bullets.

Mecca
10-18-2009, 10:18 PM
Tamba Hali has been in the league a hell of a lot longer right?

But hey a rookie QB can't possibly get better.

And why are you making this about Sanchez, this has 0 to do with him, tard party.

ChiefsCountry
10-18-2009, 10:19 PM
I think it is funny that Mecca feels better about bashing Hali, whom had a game sealing safety than supporting his boy Sanchez in the other thread.

All you other parrots are over there taking all your bullets.

Your the dumbass who defended Herm Freaking Edwards, I wouldn't call out anybody if I was your dumbass.

milkman
10-18-2009, 10:25 PM
I think it is funny that Mecca feels better about bashing Hali, whom had a game sealing safety than supporting his boy Sanchez in the other thread.

All you other parrots are over there taking all your bullets.

And there it is.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-18-2009, 10:28 PM
Tamba Hali has been in the league a hell of a lot longer right?

But hey a rookie QB can't possibly get better.

And why are you making this about Sanchez, this has 0 to do with him, tard party.

I just thought it was odd that you were curiously absent from the Sanchez thread, being as he is your messiah and all.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-18-2009, 10:29 PM
Your the dumbass who defended Herm Freaking Edwards, I wouldn't call out anybody if I was your dumbass.

Yep. I defended a guy who took several teams to the playoffs and got the shaft here from a GM that didn't let him build the team his way until his third year.

I am actually glad he is gone because I don't think he would have taken the Chiefs to the Super Bowl. But, I also acknowlege that he was given a very poor situation here.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-18-2009, 10:30 PM
So who brings up whom?

Mecca
10-18-2009, 10:31 PM
Sensible is one of those guys that should have his eye removed.....with an ice pick.

Coach
10-18-2009, 10:32 PM
I think it is funny that Mecca feels better about bashing Hali, whom had a game sealing safety than supporting his boy Sanchez in the other thread.

All you other parrots are over there taking all your bullets.

http://www.crushcrew.org/supersecret/file/pics/you-win-prize.jpg

SenselessChiefsFan
10-18-2009, 10:47 PM
Sensible is one of those guys that should have his eye removed.....with an ice pick.

Then, I could see the game the way you do.

raybec 4
10-18-2009, 10:51 PM
Then, I could see the game the way you do.

You always have streaks of coherent posts but then you drive right off a goddamn cliff, it never fails.

DeezNutz
10-18-2009, 10:54 PM
So who brings up whom?

Not sure. We're still trying to figure out the subject and object forms.

Christofire
10-19-2009, 09:39 AM
On the positive side atleast the defense managed to not make an inept unit look good. That's progress.

Yeah, though it still sucks to once again be on the wrong side of somebody's career performance. In this case, Clinton Portis' career long 78-yard run. But again, a small disappointment compared to the overall effort.

donkhater
10-19-2009, 09:49 AM
I'm with Mecca on this one. Hali is average. No one is going to write him in for a Pro-Bowl birth anytime soon. He isn't athletic enough to be great in coverage and doesn't have the burst or moves to be a great pass-rusher.

What he does have is work ethic and a motor. Those two things will get you 5-8 sacks a year and a solid starting role on an average defense. Combine those two things with actual talent and you get Jared Allen, who IS the dominant player many of you seem to think Hali is.

This defense has sucked so bad for so long, you guys are salivating over mediocrity.

Brock
10-19-2009, 09:57 AM
I see a cornerstone of the defense that just needs to be surrounded by more talent.

No way he is a backup.

I don't think you know what cornerstone means.

philfree
10-19-2009, 09:59 AM
I'm with Mecca on this one. Hali is average. No one is going to write him in for a Pro-Bowl birth anytime soon. He isn't athletic enough to be great in coverage and doesn't have the burst or moves to be a great pass-rusher.

What he does have is work ethic and a motor. Those two things will get you 5-8 sacks a year and a solid starting role on an average defense. Combine those two things with actual talent and you get Jared Allen, who IS the dominant player many of you seem to think Hali is.

This defense has sucked so bad for so long, you guys are salivating over mediocrity.

I see Hali as a great guy to have on the team that will be a good mentor to the guy we draft to take his position. Actually you can never have enough pass rushers though so maybe Hali and two other OLBs not yet on the team would give us a nice rotation where our pass rushers stay fresh. I hope we don't think we have our ROLB position covered because Hali has proven just adequate. I like the guy but he's A V G.

PhilFree:arrow:

Hog Rider
10-19-2009, 10:14 AM
Tamba, His arms wide!!!!!!!

Shaka, when the quarterback fell!

Hali returns!

SenselessChiefsFan
10-19-2009, 10:43 AM
I don't think you know what cornerstone means.

To me, it just means a piece that contributes on the positive side of the equation that is still in his prime.

The guy plays his responsibilities well, has a non stop motor, and is a leader on the defense. He needs more help around him.

Even still, he should have 10 sacks this year. I know he is on pace for 8, but the Chiefs have had their toughest stretch of the schedule.

I think a double digit sack guy is a cornerstone. Call me crazy.

Brock
10-19-2009, 10:46 AM
To me, it just means a piece that contributes on the positive side of the equation that is still in his prime.

The guy plays his responsibilities well, has a non stop motor, and is a leader on the defense. He needs more help around him.

Even still, he should have 10 sacks this year. I know he is on pace for 8, but the Chiefs have had their toughest stretch of the schedule.

I think a double digit sack guy is a cornerstone. Call me crazy.

That's not what a cornerstone is. Jared Allen is a cornerstone. Ray Lewis is a cornerstone. Tamba Hali is not a cornerstone.

King_Chief_Fan
10-19-2009, 10:47 AM
Yep. I defended a guy who took several teams to the playoffs and got the shaft here from a GM that didn't let him build the team his way until his third year.

I am actually glad he is gone because I don't think he would have taken the Chiefs to the Super Bowl. But, I also acknowlege that he was given a very poor situation here.

Haley inherited worse due to the terds that Herm left in the punch bowl

SenselessChiefsFan
10-19-2009, 10:51 AM
I'm with Mecca on this one. Hali is average. No one is going to write him in for a Pro-Bowl birth anytime soon. He isn't athletic enough to be great in coverage and doesn't have the burst or moves to be a great pass-rusher.

What he does have is work ethic and a motor. Those two things will get you 5-8 sacks a year and a solid starting role on an average defense. Combine those two things with actual talent and you get Jared Allen, who IS the dominant player many of you seem to think Hali is.

This defense has sucked so bad for so long, you guys are salivating over mediocrity.

First, Jared Allen is hands down better than Hali.

That said, Jared Allen didn't really produce until he had talent lining up next to him in Boone and Hali rushing from the other side.

Add in that early in his career, Allen was actually given leads and could rush the passer without fearing the run so much.

Now, Allen is playing on a great line.... no question.

Okay, again, Allen is the better player. However, that doesn't mean that Hali is 'average'. He is good. Just not dominant. He can't take over a game.

But, he is a solid starter, and would be on most teams in the league.

The defense should actually improve because I think the front three are playing better.

I hope that DJ can get his stuff together, because he has the talent to really make this defense step up.

Otherwise, this defense will really struggle all year. They just don't have enough ability in the middle of the field.

And, Hali is good on one side, but Vrabel isn't what he used to be. Chiefs really need some more speed and explosion at that spot.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-19-2009, 10:52 AM
That's not what a cornerstone is. Jared Allen is a cornerstone. Ray Lewis is a cornerstone. Tamba Hali is not a cornerstone.

I would not compare Hali to any of those players.

But, that is your definition of what a cornerstone is.

I explained mine.

Chiefnj2
10-19-2009, 10:53 AM
That said, Jared Allen didn't really produce until he had talent lining up next to him in Boone and Hali rushing from the other side.

.

Not true.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-19-2009, 11:03 AM
Haley inherited worse due to the terds that Herm left in the punch bowl

Haley has the benefit of inheriting a young team he can build the way he wants.

Some of the guys that Herm took, he chose to play a different style of offense and defense.

It will be interesting to see how those young guys play as they go to different teams.

Two players who Chiefs planet, by and large, believed sucked are starting with their new teams.

McBride had 1.5 sacks. Pollard is starting for a Texans team much better than the Chiefs.

Oh, and their defense has improved since his arrival.

Yet, those two players 'sucked'.

Herm drafted much better than DV did. We will see McBride and Pollard be productive for the next 10 years.

Not superstars.... but productive NFL players that would have contributed here for a long time.

Haley is just going in a different direction. That is understood, and should be encouraged.

Give him three years to build the team his way. Then evaluate.

Once you hire a guy, it is a bigger mistake to tie their hands and ask them to do things your way. You hire a guy for a reason.

So, long live Haley. Lets see where this thing is in three years.

Same as the Chiefs should have done with Herm. Give him three years, but with the ability to make changes from the very beginning.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-19-2009, 11:05 AM
Not true.

He had his breakout season when those two were lined up on the same line. Just the year prior, Hali had more sacks than him.

And, prior to that, as I said, the offense gave him leads to work with and he could be one dimensional. (Which led to his benching at the beginning of the 2005 season).

Chiefnj2
10-19-2009, 11:14 AM
He had his breakout season when those two were lined up on the same line. Just the year prior, Hali had more sacks than him.

And, prior to that, as I said, the offense gave him leads to work with and he could be one dimensional. (Which led to his benching at the beginning of the 2005 season).

Rookie year, starting only 10 games, Allen had 9 sacks. His next year without Hali he had 11. Allen emerged as a force from the very beginning.

DeezNutz
10-19-2009, 11:32 AM
Hali, a cornerstone player? Too funny.

A cornerstone player is an elite talent who causes major matchup problems, thus creating opportunities for everyone else, in addition to getting his.

Hali, while a good story, is hardly someone whom opponents have to gameplan for.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-19-2009, 11:35 AM
Rookie year, starting only 10 games, Allen had 9 sacks. His next year without Hali he had 11. Allen emerged as a force from the very beginning.

It is amazing what happens when you have an offense that is explosive and can give you leads, and all you have to do is rush the passer.

Yet, even with all his studliness, he had fewer sacks in 2006 than 'average' Tamba Hali. Hmmm.

He had his first pro bowl in his fourth year. Up until 2006, he was considered a liability against the run, and a one dimensional player. In 2006 he finally started to put together all of his repsonsibilities and fewer sacks than Hali.

In 2007, he finally broke out. His fourth year, also the year that they added a good DT playing next to him.

But, don't let the facts get in the way of your hero worship.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-19-2009, 11:39 AM
Hali, a cornerstone player? Too funny.

A cornerstone player is an elite talent who causes major matchup problems, thus creating opportunities for everyone else, in addition to getting his.

Hali, while a good story, is hardly someone whom opponents have to gameplan for.


Again, a 'different' definition. See how this works. We all define these terms a bit differently.

Some people consider a franchise QB a far lesser accomplishment than I do. I consider a franchise player, a guy like that, be it on offense or defense.

But, even at your definition.... if you haven't noticed, Hali is the one on this defense that the offense game plans for. I can tell by looking at the games, but even the coaches and players admit it.

For the record, Hali isn't a 'franchise' player in my mind. He isn't a dominating player. He is just a good player that is a starter on most teams and is not needing replacement. I wouldn't mind seeing him on the other side. I wouldn't mind having a truly explosive pass rusher where he is now.... but even at his current OLB spot, he can be very effective.... and a solid piece of the foundation of this defense.

Chiefnj2
10-19-2009, 11:41 AM
It is amazing what happens when you have an offense that is explosive and can give you leads, and all you have to do is rush the passer.

Yet, even with all his studliness, he had fewer sacks in 2006 than 'average' Tamba Hali. Hmmm.

He had his first pro bowl in his fourth year. Up until 2006, he was considered a liability against the run, and a one dimensional player. In 2006 he finally started to put together all of his repsonsibilities and fewer sacks than Hali.

In 2007, he finally broke out. His fourth year, also the year that they added a good DT playing next to him.

But, don't let the facts get in the way of your hero worship.

What a surprise, Herm Edwards takes over and Allen's numbers drop. I guess Herm can ruin anything if he tries.

Small school prospect puts up 9 sacks his rookie year and 11 the next year on a DL that is complete shit - yes, he was a force from the start. He is what you call a cornerstone.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-19-2009, 11:41 AM
Rookie year, starting only 10 games, Allen had 9 sacks. His next year without Hali he had 11. Allen emerged as a force from the very beginning.

Oh, and IF Hali gets 11 this year, will he be a 'force'?

Just want to set the ground rules..... because I think 10 is coming....11 is possible.

And, 'if' he is a force, does that mean a cornerstone?

SenselessChiefsFan
10-19-2009, 11:43 AM
What a surprise, Herm Edwards takes over and Allen's numbers drop. I guess Herm can ruin anything if he tries.

Small school prospect puts up 9 sacks his rookie year and 11 the next year on a DL that is complete shit - yes, he was a force from the start. He is what you call a cornerstone.

Well, I didn't think I would get much of an objective point of view here, don't know why I tried.

Thanks for the debate.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-19-2009, 11:49 AM
To be clear..... I think Allen is a franchise player in the NFL. He is better than Hali beyond question. I just think that his production was clearly benefited by adding talent around him and game situations. Things that Hali does not have the benefit of at this time.

Additionally, Allen was a one dimensional player early and it wasn't until 2007 that he really put everything together and became dominant.

That isn't a slight against him, just an acknowlegement of what it takes to be a great player, and how guys develop over time.

Calcountry
10-19-2009, 11:49 AM
I did hate when Vrabel missed that tackle on the huge run by portis though... I'll let him go for that hit on Collins in the endzone right after he threw it... God I love safeties....Tell, me, did that piece of shit Portis wave his championship belt after the game this time?

I will never forget the kick in the gut that game in Denver gave me.

Chiefnj2
10-19-2009, 11:54 AM
To be clear..... I think Allen is a franchise player in the NFL. He is better than Hali beyond question. I just think that his production was clearly benefited by adding talent around him and game situations. Things that Hali does not have the benefit of at this time.

Additionally, Allen was a one dimensional player early and it wasn't until 2007 that he really put everything together and became dominant.

That isn't a slight against him, just an acknowlegement of what it takes to be a great player, and how guys develop over time.

Hali does not have the benefit of talent around him? Allen had Sims on the line his first two years. Hali has two top 5 picks on the DL who don't appear to be the busts that Sims is/was.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-19-2009, 11:55 AM
Hali does not have the benefit of talent around him? Allen had Sims on the line his first two years. Hali has two top 5 picks on the DL who don't appear to be the busts that Sims is/was.

Allen had an OFFENSE.

I know that this is complex stuff for you... but when you have an explosive offense, the other team tends to have to pass more.

It is the entire team, not just the defensive line.

Chiefnj2
10-19-2009, 12:00 PM
Allen had an OFFENSE.

I know that this is complex stuff for you... but when you have an explosive offense, the other team tends to have to pass more.

It is the entire team, not just the defensive line.

Allen's 2nd year - KC opponents threw the ball 559 times. That's 35 per game average
This year opponents have thrown 203 times, or 34 per game on average. That one additional attempt per game created a huge advantage for Allen.

Hydrae
10-19-2009, 12:11 PM
Allen's 2nd year - KC opponents threw the ball 559 times. That's 35 per game average
This year opponents have thrown 203 times, or 34 per game on average. That one additional attempt per game created a huge advantage for Allen.

From what I have read in this thread, Allen got 11 sacks that year. Tamba is on track to at least come close to that and I think everyone will agree that Allen is the better talent. But that shows that Tamba is not a bust and is playing solidly this year in a new position.

Not that I care, it is fun watching you guys go back and forth. But you have to keep your arguments clean.

Chiefnj2
10-19-2009, 12:25 PM
From what I have read in this thread, Allen got 11 sacks that year. Tamba is on track to at least come close to that and I think everyone will agree that Allen is the better talent. But that shows that Tamba is not a bust and is playing solidly this year in a new position.

Not that I care, it is fun watching you guys go back and forth. But you have to keep your arguments clean.

I never opined on Hali. I was only arguing against Sensible's claim that Allen developed only when Boone and Hali came aboard.

To go back. I liked the Hali draft pick. I think a team can win a championship with him at LDE as long as you have a strong RDE. I think he's a solid 43 lineman.

I think he's exceeding the expectations of 99% of this board (myself included) with his play at OLB. All that being said, I still think he's more of a complimentary player than a "cornerstone". Even if he puts up 9 sacks this year, I still don't view him as the difference maker that Allen is/was. I think offenses game plan around Allen. I don't think they do it for Hali, and I'm fairly certain Pioli is going to try to draft that cornerstone pass rusher within the first two rounds next year.

ChiefsCountry
10-19-2009, 12:29 PM
I never opined on Hali. I was only arguing against Sensible's claim that Allen developed only when Boone and Hali came aboard.

To go back. I liked the Hali draft pick. I think a team can win a championship with him at LDE as long as you have a strong RDE. I think he's a solid 43 lineman.

I think he's exceeding the expectations of 99% of this board (myself included) with his play at OLB. All that being said, I still think he's more of a complimentary player than a "cornerstone". Even if he puts up 9 sacks this year, I still don't view him as the difference maker that Allen is/was. I think offenses game plan around Allen. I don't think they do it for Hali, and I'm fairly certain Pioli is going to try to draft that cornerstone pass rusher within the first two rounds next year.

This on all accounts.

RedThat
10-19-2009, 12:41 PM
I see Hali as a complimentary player. A decent player who can possibly end up with 8 sacks tis year.

I think he will be nothing more then a decent player. I believe he is not viewed as a relentless passrusher, and thats what seperates him from greatness. He doesn't get in the backfield enough or apply enough pressure to force the QB's into bad throws. I also don't see him bat down balls at the LOS, and he has very little moves as a passrusher. His effort is there no question, but, when I see him get stood up by RB's and TE's, I don't see that as a good sign.

Even though I think he is ok. An okay player could get upgraded or replaced. An okay player isn't going to make a difference. This team still needs a passrusher no if's and's or but's about it.

BossChief
10-19-2009, 07:07 PM
Jared Allen didn't really produce until he had talent lining up next to him in Boone and Hali rushing from the other side.



HOLY MOTHER OF GOD!!!

I wonder if some people actually watch the games or just build opinions off of others.

Jared Allen had 8 sacks in his rookie year, one that he only got on the field around the halfway point.

The next year he had 10 or 11, playing next to Sims and Dalton.

Hali came in the next year and Jareds sack total dropped to like 7, so no his totals didnt go up because he was across from the great Hali. ROFL

A "Cornerstone" DEMANDS a double team to be slowed down and cannot be shut out of a game unless trippled. Hali can be single blocked most the game.


I like his progression so far, but lets not go full retard.

OnTheWarpath58
10-19-2009, 07:10 PM
HOLY MOTHER OF GOD!!!

I wonder if some people actually watch the games or just build opinions off of others.

Jared Allen had 8 sacks in his rookie year, one that he only got on the field around the halfway point.

The next year he had 10 or 11, playing next to Sims and Dalton.

Hali came in the next year and Jareds sack total dropped to like 7, so no his totals didnt go up because he was across from the great Hali. ROFL

A "Cornerstone" DEMANDS a double team to be slowed down and cannot be shut out of a game unless trippled. Hali can be single blocked most the game.


I like his progression so far, but lets not go full retard.

Hali demands a TE or RB.

So there.

:D

BossChief
10-19-2009, 07:11 PM
Oh, and IF Hali gets 11 this year, will he be a 'force'?

Just want to set the ground rules..... because I think 10 is coming....11 is possible.

And, 'if' he is a force, does that mean a cornerstone?


Dude, if Hali gets 11 sacks Ill cut off my arms with a pumpkin carver

SenselessChiefsFan
10-19-2009, 07:11 PM
HOLY MOTHER OF GOD!!!

I wonder if some people actually watch the games or just build opinions off of others.

Jared Allen had 8 sacks in his rookie year, one that he only got on the field around the halfway point.

The next year he had 10 or 11, playing next to Sims and Dalton.

Hali came in the next year and Jareds sack total dropped to like 7, so no his totals didnt go up because he was across from the great Hali. ROFL

A "Cornerstone" DEMANDS a double team to be slowed down and cannot be shut out of a game unless trippled. Hali can be single blocked most the game.


I like his progression so far, but lets not go full retard.

Actually, he had 9 his rookie year, 11 his second year. Game situations.

And, if you pay attention, I said it was due to having talent around him including Hali and Boone.

I wonder if guys actually watch the games...because there is a ton of revisionist history and the way they remember it, not the way it actually was.

Allen was always a good pass rusher.... but he wasn't a dominant rusher and wasn't a good all around DE until his fourth year.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-19-2009, 07:16 PM
Dude, if Hali gets 11 sacks Ill cut off my arms with a pumpkin carver

Well, lucky for you, I won't hold you to it... he already has 21.5 for his career.

Seriously though, he should log 10. I expected eight coming into the season, but he has done a better job than I expected... and the line is getting better.

milkman
10-19-2009, 07:24 PM
I don't actually disagree with your overall take on Hali, Sensible (a misnomer if there ever was one), but I think you need to pick up a dictionary and read the definition of "cornerstone".

BossChief
10-19-2009, 07:25 PM
Actually, he had 9 his rookie year, 11 his second year. Game situations.

And, if you pay attention, I said it was due to having talent around him including Hali and Boone.

I wonder if guys actually watch the games...because there is a ton of revisionist history and the way they remember it, not the way it actually was.

Allen was always a good pass rusher.... but he wasn't a dominant rusher and wasn't a good all around DE until his fourth year.


HOLY MOTHER OF GOD X2!!!

Jared was dominant because of Boone? Really?

Some of this stuff makes my brain hurt.

Hali is an average player that is looking good because Dorsey is playing so well.

Ill be surprised if, by years end, he isnt getting exposed for his lack of speed in coverage and to the edge, ala the flip play the raiders used to beat us.

He has gotten better, and is much better than I expected, but CORNERSTONE??? PLEASE, just quit.

BossChief
10-19-2009, 07:26 PM
Well, lucky for you, I won't hold you to it... he already has 21.5 for his career.

Seriously though, he should log 10. I expected eight coming into the season, but he has done a better job than I expected... and the line is getting better.ROFL

my bad, I meant 11 sacks this year buddy.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-19-2009, 07:29 PM
HOLY MOTHER OF GOD X2!!!

Jared was dominant because of Boone? Really?

Some of this stuff makes my brain hurt.

Hali is an average player that is looking good because Dorsey is playing so well.

Ill be surprised if, by years end, he isnt getting exposed for his lack of speed in coverage and to the edge, ala the flip play the raiders used to beat us.

He has gotten better, and is much better than I expected, but CORNERSTONE??? PLEASE, just quit.

Even Allen himself credited Boone with getting him to the Pro Bowl because it was the first time that a team couldn't pretty much ignore the guy playing next to him.

Not saying saying it was 'because' of Boone. Just pointing out that until Allen had better talent around him, he wasn't as dominant. Some of that was the talent getting better. Some of it was him taking the next step.

Sorry that you don't understand the nuances of the argument.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-19-2009, 07:29 PM
ROFL

my bad, I meant 11 sacks this year buddy.

I know... just playing around.

I just wish he got to play the Packers.... or the Chiefs.

BossChief
10-19-2009, 07:44 PM
Even Allen himself credited Boone with getting him to the Pro Bowl because it was the first time that a team couldn't pretty much ignore the guy playing next to him.

Not saying saying it was 'because' of Boone. Just pointing out that until Allen had better talent around him, he wasn't as dominant. Some of that was the talent getting better. Some of it was him taking the next step.

Sorry that you don't understand the nuances of the argument.

UMMMMM what?

OK, if Jared got 9 in 10 starts as a rookie, thats just about 1/game...right? Projected over 16 games that is..........14-16, right? NO BOONE

But somehow Boone made it all happen in 2007?

He may have helped, but really, Allen is a one man wrecking crew.

Jared is good enough that a team could probably just run a 1-5-5 defense and rush him alone every play of the game and drop everyone else into coverage and he would get 15 sacks and the defense would feast on badly thrown and rushed passes.

ok maybe that is a gross exaggeration but it sure would be interesting.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-20-2009, 12:23 PM
UMMMMM what?

OK, if Jared got 9 in 10 starts as a rookie, thats just about 1/game...right? Projected over 16 games that is..........14-16, right? NO BOONE

But somehow Boone made it all happen in 2007?

He may have helped, but really, Allen is a one man wrecking crew.

Jared is good enough that a team could probably just run a 1-5-5 defense and rush him alone every play of the game and drop everyone else into coverage and he would get 15 sacks and the defense would feast on badly thrown and rushed passes.

ok maybe that is a gross exaggeration but it sure would be interesting.

Yep... as a rookie, as a pass rusher. He caught guys off guard. Notice he wasn't close to that pace in the next year, and he had fewer sacks than Hali the year after that.