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View Full Version : Football 2009 Broncos = the 2003 Chiefs


Shaid
10-20-2009, 11:46 PM
Think about it, crazy last second plays or multiple kick returns to pull out an improbable victory. That's just how we won early on in 2003 until the end of the year rolled around and the meltdown started. I'm still waiting for it. I'm not sold on the Broncos yet.

88TG88
10-20-2009, 11:48 PM
It's possible, tell me more.

Count Alex's Losses
10-20-2009, 11:51 PM
They won't be winning any playoff games.

The comparison ends there.

Shaid
10-20-2009, 11:55 PM
We'll see what things look like a bit later on. They've pulled out some close games. Their D looks good but look how at how good our D was at takeaways early in 2003. Sorry, I'm still not buying it.

KCrockaholic
10-21-2009, 12:03 AM
Divisional Playoff loss to the Colts??? Yes, I see it...

Ari Chi3fs
10-21-2009, 12:10 AM
Mike Nolan > Greg Robinson

DaFace
10-21-2009, 12:12 AM
They look a lot better than the 2003 Chiefs, frankly. Maybe not on offense, but their balance is much better.

KCrockaholic
10-21-2009, 12:15 AM
They look a lot better than the 2003 Chiefs, frankly. Maybe not on offense, but their balance is much better.

I guess this is true :(

DaneMcCloud
10-21-2009, 12:28 AM
Think about it, crazy last second plays or multiple kick returns to pull out an improbable victory. That's just how we won early on in 2003 until the end of the year rolled around and the meltdown started. I'm still waiting for it. I'm not sold on the Broncos yet.

Yeah, you're right.

Their young offensive line, anchored by second year left tackle Ryan Clady is overrated.

Their receivers, led by Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal, rounded out by Tony Scheffler are overated.

Their running backs, led by Buckhalter and rookie Knowshon Moreno are awful.

Their defense, especially Dumerville, is a mirage. Mike Nolan sucks ass, even in Baltimore. He doesn't have a clue.

Yep, you're right. They are in no way, shape or form a good team, nor will they be a good team for years.

Especially with all those draft picks.

Shaid
10-21-2009, 12:29 AM
They look a lot better than the 2003 Chiefs, frankly. Maybe not on offense, but their balance is much better.

I agree their balance is better but our offense was absolutely dominant so I don't think we can say they look a lot better.

Shaid
10-21-2009, 12:34 AM
Yeah, you're right.

Their young offensive line, anchored by second year left tackle Ryan Clady is overrated.

Their receivers, led by Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal, rounded out by Tony Scheffler are overated.

Their running backs, led by Buckhalter and rookie Knowshon Moreno are awful.

Their defense, especially Dumerville, is a mirage. Mike Nolan sucks ass, even in Baltimore. He doesn't have a clue.

Yep, you're right. They are in no way, shape or form a good team, nor will they be a good team for years.

Especially with all those draft picks.

I didn't say they were a bad team but there is a sudden pimping of Denver around here that's a bit premature. They could easily have a few losses and most people would probably still have the same opinion they had of them before the season. Now they are undefeated, just like the 2003 Chiefs were, and people are calling them Superbowl contenders. Sorry, I don't see it.

KCrockaholic
10-21-2009, 12:36 AM
That defensive pressure is unreal. That, is how you blitz the QB. When KC blitz's it just looks weak, and nobody finds a gap to shoot through like the Donks do. Impressive!

DaneMcCloud
10-21-2009, 12:40 AM
I didn't say they were a bad team but there is a sudden pimping of Denver around here that's a bit premature. They could easily have a few losses and most people would probably still have the same opinion they had of them before the season. Now they are undefeated, just like the 2003 Chiefs were, and people are calling them Superbowl contenders. Sorry, I don't see it.

Then you're blind.

The Broncos haven't beat a bunch of pushovers. They didn't beat a series of 0-5 teams like the Redskins. They beat New England, Cincinnati, Dallas and now S.D. on the road.

They should be given their due respect.

ChiefsCountry
10-21-2009, 12:45 AM
2003 Chiefs and 2009 Broncos both have a game manger at QB that won't help them in January. Thats about it. Knowshon is a carbon copy of Priest though.

DaneMcCloud
10-21-2009, 12:51 AM
2003 Chiefs and 2009 Broncos both have a game manger at QB that won't help them in January. Thats about it. Knowshon is a carbon copy of Priest though.

I think it depends on the matchup.

And I do think that Orton has performed better and is a much better leader than Grlbac ever was at any time in his career.

ClevelandBronco
10-21-2009, 12:53 AM
Damn, Dane. I didn't need yet another reason to think you're a voice of reason around here.

tk13
10-21-2009, 12:53 AM
2003 Chiefs and 2009 Broncos both have a game manger at QB that won't help them in January. Thats about it. Knowshon is a carbon copy of Priest though.

Yeah, except Trent Green or any of our offensive players had nothing to do with our loss when compared to the most hideous defensive performance in the history of the NFL playoffs.

tk13
10-21-2009, 12:56 AM
Broncos have proven they can play with the big boys so far. It'll be real interesting to see what happens if they get in a shootout with someone like Peyton Manning though. But Jake Plummer once beat Tom Brady in a playoff game, so who knows. Their defense has to continue playing like it's a top 2-3 unit, and they'll have a chance.

ClevelandBronco
10-21-2009, 01:00 AM
Broncos have proven they can play with the big boys so far.

Okay.

It'll be real interesting to see what happens if they get in a shootout with someone like Peyton Manning though.

Someone LIKE Peyton Manning?

Okay.

DaneMcCloud
10-21-2009, 01:02 AM
Okay.



Someone LIKE Peyton Manning?

Okay.

LMAO

tk13
10-21-2009, 01:08 AM
Well, basically that's Manning, Roethlisberger, or Brady. And I'm not as convinced that Brady is back, last week helps but the Titans flat quit. Although I have to say Flacco is playing really well. He's probably playing better than Ryan, and I didn't think that would ever happen. I don't think it's that outrageous... and they may be fine, it'll be interesting to see what happens if they get in a situation where the offense has to carry the team. As long as their defense keeps on like they are, they'll be in every single game.

Taco John
10-21-2009, 01:36 AM
I think this is a pretty poor comparison, and shows a little desperation on Calyton's part. A better comparison would be the 2006 Broncos that started off 7-2 because of a record setting defense, but ran into the wall due to injury and an offense that just couldn't seem to get on track.

But the dynamics of this team and that team are completely different. Plummer was horrible in those games - hardly a game manager. Orton might not be lighting up the scoreboard right now, but he's a steady presence on offense who manages to move the ball in the clutch.

The way we are winning right now reminds me of the 2001 Patriots, who had a tendancy to just hang in games for all four quarters and find themselves in position to win it in the fourth quarter. It also reminds me of the 1996 Denver Broncos, that found themselves in the very same situations.

It would be easy for me to downplay this team's chances, but Broncos fans are finding each and every week that doing such only makes the person look like a fool. Last week, one of our guys started a thread about how we needed a new kick returner. He's eating his hat right now.

KCChiefsMan
10-21-2009, 01:38 AM
no, their defense is way better than ours was then

Rudy lost the toss
10-21-2009, 01:49 AM
I think it is clear that they are the 2008 Tennessee Titans Raiduhs

salame
10-21-2009, 01:53 AM
http://broncosbanter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/throwback.jpg
lol

Taco John
10-21-2009, 04:20 AM
The 1990 Chiefs. If you wanted to make a historically meaningful comparison that said "don't worry, they're going to lose when it counts," you should have compared us to the 1990 Chiefs.

Taco John
10-21-2009, 04:46 AM
Of course, the more I watch this team, the more I see a comparison to the 1991 Washington Redskins...

TheGuardian
10-21-2009, 05:19 AM
I think it is clear that they are the 2008 Tennessee Titans Raiduhs

Prolly the best comparison.

Denver is going to end up with some over inflated record and then get smoked in their first playoff game.

Saccopoo
10-21-2009, 05:47 AM
Yeah, you're right.

Their young offensive line, anchored by second year left tackle Ryan Clady is overrated.

Weigmann might be the most underrated center that's played in the NFL in the past 20 years. Waters has looked like shit since he's left. ****ing Herm and his youth movement.

Their receivers, led by Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal, rounded out by Tony Scheffler are overated.

This is a really nice group. One of the better receiving corps in the league.

Their running backs, led by Buckhalter and rookie Knowshon Moreno are awful.

I sense some degree of sarcasm here. Personally, I think that the jury is out and McPuberty is channelling the ghosts of Shanahans past.

Their defense, especially Dumerville, is a mirage. Mike Nolan sucks ass, even in Baltimore. He doesn't have a clue.

Nolan sucks. Dumerville is an absolute beast that is thriving as a rush end in a 3-4 setup. He's a one trick pony, but he can do that one trick really, really well. And the Doncos are consistently blitzing on his side to the inside of him to take away runs that could potentially counter that aggressiveness that he has. I'd dump short slants over top of the left side (offense) to mitigate that, but that would be dependent upon having an offensive line that would actually allow a quarterback time to throw anything in a set route pattern.

Yep, you're right. They are in no way, shape or form a good team, nor will they be a good team for years. Especially with all those draft picks.

Eh...the dildos pissed away a first rounder on a dime cornerback. And I'm not to sure that they (Xanders/McPuberty) really have a clue in terms of a draft board.

Personally, I think they've been lucky as shit so far this season. They legitimately beat the Pats, but then, the Raiders just beat the Eagles. Weird shit happens. I don't think they are even remotely as good as their record indicates this season. Which is good in that they are moving farther down the draft board with each and every lucky as hell win. Maybe that let's them get another stellar draft like last year when they had two first rounders and three 2nd round picks and got:

1st Rounders:
RB Knowshon Moreno
- So far so good but so has most Donco RB's over the past 15 years regardless of their talent level. One TD and a long run of 17 yards in six games...meh.

LB Robert Ayers
- Seven tackles. Six games. Stunning.

2nd Rounders:
CB Alphonso Smith
- So worth it to trade away a future first rounder for this guys draft rights so he can be your third string punt and kickoff return guy.

CB/S Darcel McBath
- Who? Two tackles per game? Yikes.

TE Richard Quinn
- A second round pick? Really? For your third string TE that hasn't seen action in a single game? Sexy.

Pioli Zombie
10-21-2009, 06:18 AM
The Broncos are as opposite of the 2003 Chiefs as can be. The Chiefs were an awesome offensive machine that totally sucked on defense. The Broncos defense has been outstanding and their offense has been efficient while not spectacular. They look much more like the kind of team that could do damage in the playoffs than that Chiefs team.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mile High Mania
10-21-2009, 07:27 AM
Maybe that let's them get another stellar draft like last year when they had two first rounders and three 2nd round picks and got:

1st Rounders:
RB Knowshon Moreno
- So far so good but so has most Donco RB's over the past 15 years regardless of their talent level. One TD and a long run of 17 yards in six games...meh.

LB Robert Ayers
- Seven tackles. Six games. Stunning.

2nd Rounders:
CB Alphonso Smith
- So worth it to trade away a future first rounder for this guys draft rights so he can be your third string punt and kickoff return guy.

CB/S Darcel McBath
- Who? Two tackles per game? Yikes.

TE Richard Quinn
- A second round pick? Really? For your third string TE that hasn't seen action in a single game? Sexy.

The thing is you appear to be one that expects the rookies to step in immediately and produce. So far, they haven't been asked to do that... Denver had a nice core of veterans and they made (what appears to be for now) some nice veteran FA signings. The rookies are getting playing time, but they're not starting every game .... aside from Moreno recently.

Agent V
10-21-2009, 07:46 AM
Seriously, how long can some of us here sit around calling Denver a fluke while they roll through the Cowboys, Patriots and Chargers? Denver is for real. I was wrong this offseason. A lot of people were. It's no ideal situation for Chiefs fans, but it's reality.

LaChapelle
10-21-2009, 07:47 AM
I would have some concerns about the cancer Marshall would become if a losing streak sets in. Kicking balls on the field while winning don't shed a positive light. But that could be nit picking.

Mile High Mania
10-21-2009, 07:55 AM
I would have some concerns about the cancer Marshall would become if a losing streak sets in. Kicking balls on the field while winning don't shed a positive light. But that could be nit picking.

Yeah, the thing with Marshall is... watch during plays (especially right after) at how many times you see Stokely near him. There were several times on MNF when I noticed Stokely going up to Marshall and "pushing him or drawing him" away from a potential incident. It's much like last year when Brandon scored, and he was going to pull something from his sock (can't recall the incident well, but you know what I mean). It's almost as if Stokely has an extra job of shadowing Marshall just to make sure he doesn't do something dumb.

Kicking the ball ... geez, what a dumbass... I get that he's very emotional, but contain it dude.

jaa1025
10-21-2009, 08:06 AM
Think about it, crazy last second plays or multiple kick returns to pull out an improbable victory. That's just how we won early on in 2003 until the end of the year rolled around and the meltdown started. I'm still waiting for it. I'm not sold on the Broncos yet.

The only things comparable is return game and record. Their offense is no where near as good as the Chiefs we're but their defense is light years ahead of our defense. Bad comparison.

milkman
10-21-2009, 08:09 AM
The Donkeys got a couple big plays late, one the fluky TD in the Bengal game, but they've won, and that has helped them to build confidence and mometum.

Their offense is efficient and productive, and their defense is making outstanding halftime adjustments.

The comparison to the '03 Chiefs is ridiculous.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-21-2009, 08:10 AM
It is pathetic when we have to sell short the accomplishments of other teams just to somehow feel better about our teams failure.

The Broncos may not be Super Bowl contenders. The Broncos may not win a playoff game, but they should still be given respect for what they have done.

Look, I don't mind them being successful. Honestly, I don't think they will win the Super Bowl, and I think Orton will hold them back. Them having success this year is a good thing. It will keep them from making significant changes at QB and will keep them drafting fairly low. Dawkins is 35, and Bailey has had injury problems. I can see how this 'could' implode after this year.

But, even as I look to the future of how this 'may' be beneficial, I have to give them credit for their success. Lucky a little? Sure. If nothing else, the fact that they have stayed healthy. But the good teams usually are a little lucky. And, amazingly, the more they win, the more 'lucky' they get.

Why? They don't stop believing they will win until the final seconds tick off the clock.

DumbHillbillies
10-21-2009, 08:26 AM
The only things comparable is return game and record. Their offense is no where near as good as the Chiefs we're but their defense is light years ahead of our defense. Bad comparison.

This. Their defense is for real and ours sucked.

Reaper16
10-21-2009, 08:36 AM
The Broncos defense is key to the whole turnaround. We all expected their defense to be putrid until they could find the players they needed for the 3-4; we expected their defense to give up a bunch of points, forcing games into a shootout, putting a lot of pressure on Orton to go out and sling the ball around like he's some kind of superstar playmaker and inevitably fail.

But no, the defense is miraculously good and Kyle can simply make the smart play, take what he can get or throw it away, until he finds Marshall or Royal open for the big play. Orton is allowed by his defense to play within himself -- and he's very efficient at doing that.

Mile High Mania
10-21-2009, 08:36 AM
I'm just curious and I'm asking this while fully admitting that the idea of Orton having to go "toe to toe" with Peyton Manning or Drew Brees gives me nervous thoughts... not because I think Orton is anything like Plummer, but I just haven't seen him have to really do that at this level.

So, what do you guys have to see from Orton before you say "You know, he's not really that bad... he's not Peyton, but he's more than a game manager."

I think continued consistency over the next stretch of tough games is what I need to see to make me a 100% believer... I'm nearly there, but I do have my concerns. I still think the offense is maturing and growing together and I think it's safe to say that offensively, they haven't reached their potential. I don't view them as a Saints' or Colts' West team in the making... but, I do hope to see more explosiveness early in some of these games during the next month.

It's great to lock things down like they have defensively in the second half, but ... on the road at Baltimore, Indy and at home vs the Steelers and Giants... if push comes to shove, can the offense consistently kick it up a notch. I don't know - I think they can and would guess that this is the feeling of most around here.

Chief Faithful
10-21-2009, 08:38 AM
I see them more like the 2008 Titans.

Von Dumbass
10-21-2009, 08:41 AM
I see them more like the 2008 Titans.

The 2008 Titans didn't have the best WR core in the league, the best OL in the league, a great RB core, and the best TE core in the league.... Plus Orton >>>>>>>>>>> Collins

milkman
10-21-2009, 08:48 AM
I see them more like the 2008 Titans.

I don't see it.

They have more talent offensively at WR, and Kerry Collins is a game manager type who thinks he's more, so he is prone ot mistakes.

Orton doesn't seem to have any illusions about himself, so he plays within his limitations.

Demonpenz
10-21-2009, 08:48 AM
did the 03 chiefs have two hall of fame players on D?

notorious
10-21-2009, 08:49 AM
The 2008 Titans didn't have the best WR core in the league, the best OL in the league, a great RB core, and the best TE core in the league.... Plus Orton >>>>>>>>>>> Collins

While I don't agree with the Titan's comparison, I wouldn't put Orton that much better then Collins yet.


Collins has won some big games and been a part of some good teams.

Given time Orton could be much better then Collins, but not yet. Orton is on absolute fire right now. Only time will tell if this is just a hot streak, or if Orton is going to be like this long term.


As a Chiefs fan, I hope it is just a streak, though. :)

Chief Faithful
10-21-2009, 08:49 AM
The 2008 Titans didn't have the best WR core in the league, the best OL in the league, a great RB core, and the best TE core in the league.... Plus Orton >>>>>>>>>>> Collins

Yeah, we know what you think. No go back to the swing set and play the adults are talking here.

Garcia Bronco
10-21-2009, 08:50 AM
Think about it, crazy last second plays or multiple kick returns to pull out an improbable victory. That's just how we won early on in 2003 until the end of the year rolled around and the meltdown started. I'm still waiting for it. I'm not sold on the Broncos yet.

Nope. Not true at all. It seems you don't remember that 2003 team very well. We actually force people to punt. And you didn't have a defense like we have.

Von Dumbass
10-21-2009, 08:57 AM
I don't see it.

They have more talent offensively at WR, and Kerry Collins is a game manager type who thinks he's more, so he is prone ot mistakes.

Orton doesn't seem to have any illusions about himself, so he plays within his limitations.

Milkman is finally coming around :)

Chief Faithful
10-21-2009, 08:58 AM
I don't see it.

They have more talent offensively at WR, and Kerry Collins is a game manager type who thinks he's more, so he is prone ot mistakes.

Orton doesn't seem to have any illusions about himself, so he plays within his limitations.

The 2008 Titans caught a wind early in the season and didn't cool off until after mid-season. I see that same dynamic happening right now with Denver. There are never perfect comparisons when you look strictly at personnel.

The 2009 Broncos have a better passing game, but the 2008 Titans had a fantastic power running game.

notorious
10-21-2009, 08:59 AM
Nope. Not true at all. It seems you don't remember that 2003 team very well. We actually force people to punt. And you didn't have a defense like we have.

The first few games the defense did pretty well. Unfortunately our middle linebacker got injured and the bottom fell out when they stopped getting turnovers.

Amnorix
10-21-2009, 09:15 AM
Other than the fact that they both have won (will win) a bunch of games and be in the playoffs, they have absolutely NOTHING in common.

Reerun_KC
10-21-2009, 09:19 AM
Other than the fact that they both have won (will win) a bunch of games and be in the playoffs, they have absolutely NOTHING in common.

I agree, some of our fans wanted so despartely for them to fail while running around with signs about "being alive when orton threw his left handed int, or best offseason eva" matra bullshit...

Now they are looking pretty stupid and trying to find ways to make themselves feel better about the smak they ran...

Denver is likely to issue the chiefs 2 beatdowns this year of EPIC proportions...

CoMoChief
10-21-2009, 09:32 AM
Think about it, crazy last second plays or multiple kick returns to pull out an improbable victory. That's just how we won early on in 2003 until the end of the year rolled around and the meltdown started. I'm still waiting for it. I'm not sold on the Broncos yet.

I'm not sold either. Orton will show his true colors. A meltdown is upon Donk fans.

Von Dumbass
10-21-2009, 09:34 AM
I'm not sold either. Orton will show his true colors. A meltdown is upon Donk fans.

Denver is solid across the board. The only weakness the Broncos have is a shaky FG kicker. As long as we stay relatively healthy Denver will continue to win.

vailpass
10-21-2009, 09:38 AM
I'm not sold either. Orton will show his true colors. A meltdown is upon Donk fans.

A Denver meltdown is coming. Dallas will expose them. OK they got lucky there.
No wait Tom Brady and the boys will whip them for sure. OK Brady wasn't himself that day.
San Diego at home will expose the frauds of Denver no doubt. OK LT is old.
But that meltdown is coming.
You watch, they won't go undefeated or win the superbowl which proves they are a fraud.

CoMoChief
10-21-2009, 09:39 AM
I agree, some of our fans wanted so despartely for them to fail while running around with signs about "being alive when orton threw his left handed int, or best offseason eva" matra bullshit...

Now they are looking pretty stupid and trying to find ways to make themselves feel better about the smak they ran...

Denver is likely to issue the chiefs 2 beatdowns this year of EPIC proportions...

BullFUCKINGshit!!!!!!

CoMoChief
10-21-2009, 09:42 AM
You watch, they won't go undefeated or win the superbowl which proves they are a fraud.

Youre right. They'll blow it in the playoffs. Indy will show their true colors.

HemiEd
10-21-2009, 09:46 AM
I think it depends on the matchup.

And I do think that Orton has performed better and is a much better leader than Grlbac ever was at any time in his career.

Why did you mention Grbac? Wouldn't Trent Green be more applicable?

milkman
10-21-2009, 09:49 AM
Milkman is finally coming around :)

Coming around?

No.

I didn't think Marshall would make into the season as a Donkey, taking a playmaker away from Orton.

Orton is what he is, a game manager that won't win games.

But he has playmakers that can win games on the outside and a versatile running game to make managing the game easier.

If Orton is ever put into a position to win games with his arm, unless he gets a break like the one in the Bengals game, he can't do it.

vailpass
10-21-2009, 09:49 AM
Youre right. They'll blow it in the playoffs. Indy will show their true colors.

ROFL You are better than a rabbit's foot tied to a horse shoe dropped in a field of four leaf clovers. By all means please continue with your predictions.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-21-2009, 09:54 AM
Denver is likely to issue the chiefs 2 beatdowns this year of EPIC proportions...

First, there is no question in my mind that Denver is the better team.

That said, I don't think they will deliver two beatdowns of Epic Proportions.

They are divisional games, and those tend to be hard fought.

The Broncos will play the Chiefs at Arrowhead first, which gives the Chiefs a little bit more of a chance.

And, then, the last game of the year is against Denver, but Denver will probably rest some of its starters.

So, two losses, sure... but epic proportions? I think not.:D

Reerun_KC
10-21-2009, 09:56 AM
Bull****INGshit!!!!!!

ROFL

Yeah okay dude... Keep the pipe and smoke a rolling...

Reerun_KC
10-21-2009, 09:58 AM
First, there is no question in my mind that Denver is the better team.

That said, I don't think they will deliver two beatdowns of Epic Proportions.

They are divisional games, and those tend to be hard fought.

The Broncos will play the Chiefs at Arrowhead first, which gives the Chiefs a little bit more of a chance.

And, then, the last game of the year is against Denver, but Denver will probably rest some of its starters.

So, two losses, sure... but epic proportions? I think not.:D

You know your right, I forgot the last game of the season is at Denver... so they will already have the division long locked up, probably a first round bye if not a home playoff game. so i can see them not playing hardly anyone that game..... So we might get a win there....

vailpass
10-21-2009, 10:02 AM
First, there is no question in my mind that Denver is the better team.

That said, I don't think they will deliver two beatdowns of Epic Proportions.

They are divisional games, and those tend to be hard fought.
The Broncos will play the Chiefs at Arrowhead first, which gives the Chiefs a little bit more of a chance.

And, then, the last game of the year is against Denver, but Denver will probably rest some of its starters.

So, two losses, sure... but epic proportions? I think not.:D

Agreed.

Von Dumbass
10-21-2009, 10:08 AM
Coming around?

No.

I didn't think Marshall would make into the season as a Donkey, taking a playmaker away from Orton.

Orton is what he is, a game manager that won't win games.

But he has playmakers that can win games on the outside and a versatile running game to make managing the game easier.

If Orton is ever put into a position to win games with his arm, unless he gets a break like the one in the Bengals game, he can't do it.
He has done it.... He outplayed Romo, Brady, and Rivers this year. We were down by 10 points at half time in the Cowboys and Patriots games and Orton brought us back. He is a good QB. He was a good QB in Chicago he just never had an offensive line, WR's, or a good coaching staff.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/38534/kyle-orton-week-6-highlights-s.gif

That is a big time throw that shows how accurate Orton is. Orton doesn't have a 27-12 record because he is a bad QB.

milkman
10-21-2009, 10:17 AM
He has done it.... He outplayed Romo, Brady, and Rivers this year. We were down by 10 points at half time in the Cowboys and Patriots games and Orton brought us back. He is a good QB. He was a good QB in Chicago he just never had an offensive line, WR's, or a good coaching staff.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/38534/kyle-orton-week-6-highlights-s.gif

That is a big time throw that shows how accurate Orton is. Orton doesn't have a 27-12 record because he is a bad QB.

The guy I underrated was Mike Nolan.

He has put his players in a position to succeed and made outstanding halftime adjustments.

All Orton has done is played within the system, gotten the ball to the playmakers, while the defense has shut down opponents in the second half.

Von Dumbass
10-21-2009, 10:24 AM
The guy I underrated was Mike Nolan.

He has put his players in a position to succeed and made outstanding halftime adjustments.

All Orton has done is played within the system, gotten the ball to the playmakers, while the defense has shut down opponents in the second half.

Isn't that the QB's job? Kyle Orton is playing as good as any QB in the NFL right now.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2552xqq.png

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

CoMoChief
10-21-2009, 10:25 AM
ROFL

Yeah okay dude... Keep the pipe and smoke a rolling...

I fuckin will!!!!!!

Mile High Mania
10-21-2009, 10:25 AM
Coming around?

No.

I didn't think Marshall would make into the season as a Donkey, taking a playmaker away from Orton.

Orton is what he is, a game manager that won't win games.

But he has playmakers that can win games on the outside and a versatile running game to make managing the game easier.

If Orton is ever put into a position to win games with his arm, unless he gets a break like the one in the Bengals game, he can't do it.

Your post is totally void of merit ... a game manager is Collins in 2008. Orton is top 10 in attempts and he's not playing a safe offense with a lead late into games. You have no proof that Orton can't win a game when they need it unless they catch a break.

CoMoChief
10-21-2009, 10:26 AM
Isn't that the QB's job? Kyle Orton is playing as good as any QB in the NFL right now.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2552xqq.png

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

Let it be known to Chiefsplaneteers that the underlined red marks a piece of shit loser QB.

Mile High Mania
10-21-2009, 10:26 AM
Youre right. They'll blow it in the playoffs. Indy will show their true colors.

They play @ Indy in the regular season...

CoMoChief
10-21-2009, 10:28 AM
They play @ Indy in the regular season...

Well then there ya go. Total ass rapage awaits Donk nation.

Mile High Mania
10-21-2009, 10:30 AM
Well then there ya go. Total ass rapage awaits Donk nation.

Potentially... but, we'll see. People that have visions of Indy dominating Denver as they did a few years ago may be surprised. This defense appears to have heart and never quits... we'll see, Manning can shred the best defense, so it could very well be ugly in Indy.

But, let's say it is... depending on how they play in the other games, that doesn't mean they're all of a sudden a fraud.

milkman
10-21-2009, 10:35 AM
Isn't that the QB's job? Kyle Orton is playing as good as any QB in the NFL right now.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2552xqq.png

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

When Orton makes plays late in big games, like Roethlisberger, Manning, Brady, etc, to win games, then we can talk.

Trent Green was a system QB who put up huge numbers.
But he wasn't any more than a glorified game manager.

This has been my argument about Orton all along.

He's a game manager.

Surround him with talent and he can look like a pretty good QB.

But until he makes plays in the clutch, consistently, he is nothing more.

Mile High Mania
10-21-2009, 10:36 AM
And, don't get me wrong... we all know what Indy can do, but they really haven't played anyone either. That card has been played on Denver a lot, so I can do it here.

The Colts are 6-0 vs Jags, Dolphins, Cardinals, Seahawks, Titans and next up they have the Rams - one team of the 5 over .500.

And, against that schedule - they're 7th in team defense. (14 vs rush, 9 vs pass)

Denver will certainly have their hands fully, but Manning hasn't been pressured like Denver has been consistently doing so far. I like their chances, I certainly don't expect a road win... but I don't expect to see a Manning clinic either.

milkman
10-21-2009, 10:37 AM
Your post is totally void of merit ... a game manager is Collins in 2008. Orton is top 10 in attempts and he's not playing a safe offense with a lead late into games. You have no proof that Orton can't win a game when they need it unless they catch a break.

And no have no proof that he can.

In Chicago, he failed to make plays when they needed them a couple of times.

Von Dumbass
10-21-2009, 10:40 AM
When Orton makes plays late in big games, like Roethlisberger, Manning, Brady, etc, to win games, then we can talk.

Trent Green was a system QB who put up huge numbers.
But he wasn't any more than a glorified game manager.

This has been my argument about Orton all along.

He's a game manager.

Surround him with talent and he can look like a pretty good QB.

But until he makes plays in the clutch, consistently, he is nothing more.

Would a 142.1 QB Rating in the 4th Quarter be clutch?

Or how about a 104.5 QB Rating on 3rd down... is that clutch?

Mile High Mania
10-21-2009, 10:40 AM
When Orton makes plays late in big games, like Roethlisberger, Manning, Brady, etc, to win games, then we can talk.

Trent Green was a system QB who put up huge numbers.
But he wasn't any more than a glorified game manager.

This has been my argument about Orton all along.

He's a game manager.

Surround him with talent and he can look like a pretty good QB.

But until he makes plays in the clutch, consistently, he is nothing more.

Define big play...

Does it have to be a 70 yd bomb with 7 seconds left?

Are you talking about the TD pass to Marshall to win the Dallas game?

Does the QB not become great until he's asked to pull off an amazing play in the final seconds?

Mile High Mania
10-21-2009, 10:42 AM
And no have no proof that he can.

In Chicago, he failed to make plays when they needed them a couple of times.

Hard to make plays when you don't have weapons... the Great Culter is 3-2 with that squad. Look, I'm not saying Orton = Brees... I just think he's due more credit than he is getting.

milkman
10-21-2009, 10:48 AM
Define big play...

Does it have to be a 70 yd bomb with 7 seconds left?

Are you talking about the TD pass to Marshall to win the Dallas game?

Does the QB not become great until he's asked to pull off an amazing play in the final seconds?

I'm talking about running the two minute offense, making plays to move the chains, and winning a game without a fluke pass, or getting a great play from a playmaker against a soft defense.

milkman
10-21-2009, 10:49 AM
Would a 142.1 QB Rating in the 4th Quarter be clutch?

Or how about a 104.5 QB Rating on 3rd down... is that clutch?

I don't know how many times I have to say that stats mean jack to me, and that QB rating is about the most useless stat of all.

Von Dumbass
10-21-2009, 10:51 AM
And no have no proof that he can.

In Chicago, he failed to make plays when they needed them a couple of times.
I'm talking about running the two minute offense, making plays to move the chains, and winning a game without a fluke pass, or getting a great play from a playmaker against a soft defense.
Watch the Atlanta Falcons game from last year when he was in Chicago. He took them 77 yards down the field, on the road, with two minutes to go and threw the game winning TD pass with 11 seconds left on the clock. The Bears defense lost that game for them when Elam made a walkoff field goal.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/38571/orton-s.gif

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/38573/fdsafasd-s.gif

scorpio
10-21-2009, 10:52 AM
They won't be winning any playoff games.

The comparison ends there.

Thank you GoChiefs, you don't know how much this means to me and the rest of the Broncos fans.

milkman
10-21-2009, 10:56 AM
Watch the Atlanta Falcons game from last year when he was in Chicago. He took them 77 yards down the field, on the road, with two minutes to go and threw the game winning TD pass with 11 seconds left on the clock. The Bears defense lost that game for them when Elam made a walkoff field goal.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/38571/orton-s.gif

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/38573/fdsafasd-s.gif

Every QB can do it at one time or another.

Hell, Steve Bono did it a couple of times

I'm talking about doing more than once, in big games.

Von Dumbass
10-21-2009, 10:59 AM
Every QB can do it at one time or another.

Hell, Steve Bono did it a couple of times

I'm talking about doing more than once, in big games.

Well he did lead Denver down the field in overtime to set up the game winning field goal against the Patriots (He also threw the game tying TD pass to send it into overtime). And threw the GW TD pass to win the game against the Bengals. Threw the GW TD pass against the Cowboys...

DaWolf
10-21-2009, 11:07 AM
I was thinking more 1995 Chiefs.

Right now they do have a lot of things going for them, but confidence is half the battle. Our 1995 and 1997 teams weren't in my mind legit 13-3 teams, but they did get a lot of plays going their way (Vanover kickoff returns, long game winning field goals, teams fumbling at the end of games, etc). That can go a long way.

Denver is a very prepared team and had lots of talent that is now playing to it's ability. They are sound. Some of me still wonders if other teams haven't been taking them lightly, expecting the pumpkin to appear, and I wonder this based off of the comments I heard that Rivers was making the other night about how they were going to score all day against them.

They will be interesting to watch as the season progresses, and especially in terms of seeing if they can get beyond the first game in the playoffs...

Mile High Mania
10-21-2009, 11:10 AM
Milkman, I think I could show you 6-10 examples and you could excuse them all... we'll just agree to disagree and see how things unfold.

It's either going to be a soft defense, a fluke, something from 2 years ago... or it was a great RB, TE or WR that made the play and not Orton. That's fine though.

Garcia Bronco
10-21-2009, 11:12 AM
Every QB can do it at one time or another.

Hell, Steve Bono did it a couple of times

I'm talking about doing more than once, in big games.

He;s done it the past 3-4 weeks, and the first week.

milkman
10-21-2009, 11:18 AM
He;s done it the past 3-4 weeks, and the first week.

Two minute offense, making plays to move the chains.

I don't think so.

DrRyan
10-21-2009, 11:23 AM
I think it depends on the matchup.

And I do think that Orton has performed better and is a much better leader than Grlbac ever was at any time in his career.

Just curious Dane, what does Grbac have to do with a discussion of the 2003 Chiefs and the 2009 Broncos?

Buehler445
10-21-2009, 11:29 AM
It sickens me that the Donko biches are having so much success.

That is all.
Posted via Mobile Device

BY1401
10-21-2009, 11:39 AM
And, don't get me wrong... we all know what Indy can do, but they really haven't played anyone either. That card has been played on Denver a lot, so I can do it here.

The Colts are 6-0 vs Jags, Dolphins, Cardinals, Seahawks, Titans and next up they have the Rams - one team of the 5 over .500.

And, against that schedule - they're 7th in team defense. (14 vs rush, 9 vs pass)

Denver will certainly have their hands fully, but Manning hasn't been pressured like Denver has been consistently doing so far. I like their chances, I certainly don't expect a road win... but I don't expect to see a Manning clinic either.

The Colts are 5-0, unless you're just going ahead and including Sunday's game as a gimmee. So, yeah. 6-0.

When looking at the teams they've beaten, don't forget that the Jags and the Titans are division rivals. For whatever reason, the Jags have played the Colts tough in Indy since they've been in the same division. None of those games have been won by either team by more than 7 points.

The Titans? They were keeping it close until the last minute of the first half. That sub-minute touchdown drive was the dividing line between a team that cared and a team that didn't, which is the same one that showed up in Foughxboughrough this past Sunday.

Regarding the Miami game: the Colt's O had control of the ball for less than 15 minutes. They scored 27 points in less than a quarter. Sure, that's not as impressive as what New England did against Tennessee, but at least Miami's D was playing football.

As far as Arizona goes, that game was suppossed to be a shootout of epic proportions. Indy held them to 10 points, their lowest point total of the season so far.

The Seahawks? Not much you can say about that game other than it was cupcake.

All in all, I think game 13 could shape up to be pretty good.

Agent V
10-21-2009, 11:41 AM
Denver is solid across the board. The only weakness the Broncos have is a shaky FG kicker. As long as we stay relatively healthy Denver will continue to win.

While you still annoy me, I must say I was pretty harsh in the preseason, and I've been proven wrong. I should shut my mouth when I'm making preseason predictions.

That said, I hope Kansas City somehow kicks the living shit out of your team, at least at Arrowhead. :)

MagicHef
10-21-2009, 12:22 PM
Two minute offense, making plays to move the chains.

I don't think so.

Pats game?

Mile High Mania
10-21-2009, 12:27 PM
The Colts are 5-0, unless you're just going ahead and including Sunday's game as a gimmee. So, yeah. 6-0.

When looking at the teams they've beaten, don't forget that the Jags and the Titans are division rivals. For whatever reason, the Jags have played the Colts tough in Indy since they've been in the same division. None of those games have been won by either team by more than 7 points.

The Titans? They were keeping it close until the last minute of the first half. That sub-minute touchdown drive was the dividing line between a team that cared and a team that didn't, which is the same one that showed up in Foughxboughrough this past Sunday.

Regarding the Miami game: the Colt's O had control of the ball for less than 15 minutes. They scored 27 points in less than a quarter. Sure, that's not as impressive as what New England did against Tennessee, but at least Miami's D was playing football.

As far as Arizona goes, that game was suppossed to be a shootout of epic proportions. Indy held them to 10 points, their lowest point total of the season so far.

The Seahawks? Not much you can say about that game other than it was cupcake.

All in all, I think game 13 could shape up to be pretty good.

Yeah, sorry - should have typed 5-0. But, I do agree with many of the points you made... I used the same or similar arguments to defend Denver's schedule when everyone was blasting it early on. It's funny how that defense is used for certain teams and not others. ;)

The Bad Guy
10-21-2009, 12:27 PM
I think it depends on the matchup.

And I do think that Orton has performed better and is a much better leader than Grlbac ever was at any time in his career.

What are you talking about?

Were you making a claim that the Chiefs O-line in 2003 was overrated?

Green was also the QB of the 2002 team.

I'm lost here. Just lost.

milkman
10-21-2009, 12:35 PM
Pats game?

That was a nice drive he put together to tie the game, but they scored with about 4:30-5:00 minutes left, so it didn't necessarily have the sense of urgency that I'm talking about.

Two minute offense with the clock running down.

I'll buy into him when he can make plays to moce the chains and score with less than 2 minutes.

And I'm talking about doing it more than just a couple of times.

As I said, Bono manged to so it a couple of times, and certainly no one thought he was anything more than crap.

And, Bono at one time in his career, was the the active leader among QBs in won-loss record.

thurman merman
10-21-2009, 12:37 PM
the broncos suck.

Mile High Mania
10-21-2009, 12:41 PM
I'll add this to the Orton is a 'game manger' argument and then leave it alone for a while.

Among the 32 teams (realizing some have started multiple QBs) -

Only 6 QBs have thrown for more yards.
Only 8 QBs have made more passing attempts.
Only 7 QBs have made more passing completions.
Only 9 QBs have a higher Yards per Attempt.
Only 9 QBs have more TD passes.
No QBs have fewer INTs thrown (1).

Orton is doing very well and he's doing more than just being a game manager, and he's playing smart - not trying to "make that play no matter what happens". That's all you can ask for from your QB.

DaWolf
10-21-2009, 12:41 PM
Pats game?

I wonder how smart McDaniels would have looked if that last pass into the endzone before the FG had been picked. It was close...

Mile High Mania
10-21-2009, 12:43 PM
That was a nice drive he put together to tie the game, but they scored with about 4:30-5:00 minutes left, so it didn't necessarily have the sense of urgency that I'm talking about.

Two minute offense with the clock running down.

I'll buy into him when he can make plays to moce the chains and score with less than 2 minutes.

And I'm talking about doing it more than just a couple of times.

As I said, Bono manged to so it a couple of times, and certainly no one thought he was anything more than crap.

And, Bono at one time in his career, was the the active leader among QBs in won-loss record.

ROFL I still think you have a lot of disclaimers ready to throw out there no matter what he does on the field.

Mile High Mania
10-21-2009, 12:44 PM
I wonder how smart McDaniels would have looked if that last pass into the endzone before the FG had been picked. It was close...

He would have been called a moron... I called him that when they made the two pass attempts on that drive. I couldn't fathom why they would be doing that other than he was just as worn out on Prater as I have been at times. I thought that passing in that situation was totally the wrong way to go, especially a pass that wasn't 'safe'.

DaWolf
10-21-2009, 12:44 PM
I'll add this to the Orton is a 'game manger' argument and then leave it alone for a while.

Among the 32 teams (realizing some have started multiple QBs) -

Only 6 QBs have thrown for more yards.
Only 8 QBs have made more passing attempts.
Only 7 QBs have made more passing completions.
Only 9 QBs have a higher Yards per Attempt.
Only 9 QBs have more TD passes.
No QBs have fewer INTs thrown (1).

Orton is doing very well and he's doing more than just being a game manager, and he's playing smart - not trying to "make that play no matter what happens". That's all you can ask for from your QB.

Agreed. But you have to admit he also has more advantages than at least 70% of the QB's in the league with that OL and those receivers. Otherwise how do you explain his career numbers entering this season? Again, not a knock, just reality. All you can ask from your QB, unless he is a superstar like Manning, is to take advantage of the tools he has and maximize his skills, and Orton is doing that right now...

Mile High Mania
10-21-2009, 12:49 PM
Agreed. But you have to admit he also has more advantages than at least 70% of the QB's in the league with that OL and those receivers. Otherwise how do you explain his career numbers entering this season? Again, not a knock, just reality. All you can ask from your QB, unless he is a superstar like Manning, is to take advantage of the tools he has and maximize his skills, and Orton is doing that right now...

I agree... and this is why I said from the very beginning that I had more faith than many about his upside in Denver, and why I thought Cutler in Chicago without an overhaul at WR would struggle to be "the fix".

There are very few QBs that can create magic with players that are turds. Elway, Montana, Brady, Peyton... those guys had/have 'it' and they could/can make magic happen.

But, Orton hasn't received credit for being a good QB (despite his record) because he wasn't putting up stellar numbers in CHI and the perception was they were winning based on defense, special teams and the ground game. And, I'm not saying that isn't true.

However, Orton has been more of a factor in Denver and has done more to help the team win games than he did in Chicago. But, because it appears that Denver has all of a sudden found a defense... and Orton walked into a great situation with the OL and the WRs, well... he's still not getting credit.

So, it is what it is... I just don't think it's luck. The guy plays smart and he can make great throws. They're not just doing dump offs, he's put plenty of passes right on the mark. Has he been lucky that a few of those were not intercepted? Sure, but every Sunday, you can find 10 other QBs that were just as lucky on a pass.

milkman
10-21-2009, 12:51 PM
ROFL I still think you have a lot of disclaimers ready to throw out there no matter what he does on the field.

It may appear that way, but it's all consistently, two minute offense, moving the chains in a big game and scoring with time running out.

ClevelandBronco
10-21-2009, 01:03 PM
That was a nice drive he put together to tie the game, but they scored with about 4:30-5:00 minutes left, so it didn't necessarily have the sense of urgency that I'm talking about.

Two minute offense with the clock running down.

I'll buy into him when he can make plays to moce the chains and score with less than 2 minutes.

And I'm talking about doing it more than just a couple of times...

I'll let the Broncos know that you'd like them to wait until there's two minutes left to win a few games. They'll probably hold back for 58 minutes just to see if it can be done.

milkman
10-21-2009, 01:08 PM
I'll let the Broncos know that you'd like them to wait until there's two minutes left to win a few games. They'll probably hold back for 58 minutes just to see if it can be done.

You'd do that for me?

Thanks.

Mile High Mania
10-21-2009, 01:26 PM
I'll let the Broncos know that you'd like them to wait until there's two minutes left to win a few games. They'll probably hold back for 58 minutes just to see if it can be done.

ROFL So, much like many 'old school' Denver fans... some are not going to give the QB a break in Denver until he truly does become the next Elway.

Gravedigger
10-21-2009, 01:28 PM
The 2003 team was completely based on Offense this Broncos team is based completely on Defense. There are no similarities to these two teams, until they have a game against the Colts where not one single punt happens, then theres really no similarities.

Mile High Mania
10-21-2009, 01:30 PM
And one thing that should be noted... 6-0 is great, but they haven't achieved anything yet... nothing matters for another few months. Nice start, but there's much more to be done.

BY1401
10-21-2009, 01:32 PM
Any idea how Denver's '09 defense is compared to their '06 defense?

Von Dumbass
10-21-2009, 01:35 PM
Any idea how Denver's '09 defense is compared to their '06 defense?

The 06 defense was giving up a little over a touchdown per game. Then the injury bug bit us in the ass and didn't stop biting for 3 years.

DaWolf
10-21-2009, 01:40 PM
The 2003 team was completely based on Offense this Broncos team is based completely on Defense. There are no similarities to these two teams, until they have a game against the Colts where not one single punt happens, then theres really no similarities.

Not 100 percent true, the first portion of the season our defense played great. I think it was sometime in November our defense started really falling apart, and then we had two road games (Denver and Minny) where we gave up 45 points each.

That's not to say Denver falls apart, like someone said Nolan is no Robinson, but stranger things have happened...

niblet
10-21-2009, 01:52 PM
Think about it, crazy last second plays or multiple kick returns to pull out an improbable victory. That's just how we won early on in 2003 until the end of the year rolled around and the meltdown started. I'm still waiting for it. I'm not sold on the Broncos yet.

I checked and the rosters were different.

siberian khatru
10-21-2009, 02:00 PM
Not 100 percent true, the first portion of the season our defense played great. I think it was sometime in November our defense started really falling apart, and then we had two road games (Denver and Minny) where we gave up 45 points each.


The big difference was turnovers.

I went back and looked it up. In the first 9 games, the defense forced an astounding 29 turnovers, at least one in every game -- including 7 vs. Buffalo. Even if you discard that outlier, they still forced nearly 3 turnovers a game.

In the final 7 games, though, the D forced 8 turnovers. In three games (two of them losses), they forced zero turnovers. And of course, they didn't force any turnovers (let alone punts) in the playoff game.

But if IIRC, that was the hallmark of a GR defense, right? Play with a lead, force turnovers. Once the turnovers dried up, we were cooked.

Shag
10-21-2009, 02:42 PM
Define big play...

Does it have to be a 70 yd bomb with 7 seconds left?

Are you talking about the TD pass to Marshall to win the Dallas game?

Does the QB not become great until he's asked to pull off an amazing play in the final seconds?

You're not really going to credit Orton with the TD pass against Dallas are you? That was a terrible pass, at least 5 yards underthrown. Then Marshall weaves through guys for 30 yards. That play was ALL Marshall.

Hell, his two biggest plays of the year (Cinci, Dallas) were terrible throws salvaged by WRs...

That being said, by and large, he's done what he's needed to do so far...

Kaylore
10-21-2009, 06:29 PM
They aren't similar at all.

And I want to think GoChiefs and CoMoChief for their anti-prediction power which has now guaranteed we win a playoff game.

Shaid
10-21-2009, 11:14 PM
The Broncos are as opposite of the 2003 Chiefs as can be. The Chiefs were an awesome offensive machine that totally sucked on defense. The Broncos defense has been outstanding and their offense has been efficient while not spectacular. They look much more like the kind of team that could do damage in the playoffs than that Chiefs team.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm not saying the teams are mirror images. I'm saying that their ability to win with a lucky play or two is just what the Chiefs did. They are obviously different offensively and defensively. I just think we'll see the same late season implosion.

Pink Paradise 2010
10-21-2009, 11:28 PM
well we had a good offense and defense, they have a strong defense... and a not so good offense... face the facts

okcchief
10-21-2009, 11:47 PM
I think it depends on the matchup.

And I do think that Orton has performed better and is a much better leader than Grlbac ever was at any time in his career.

What does Grbac have to do with the 2003 Chiefs?

Taco John
10-21-2009, 11:51 PM
Who is better: 2009 Orton or 2003 Green?

KCrockaholic
10-21-2009, 11:52 PM
What does Grbac have to do with the 2003 Chiefs?

Heh, maybe he meant Green? If so, he needs a reality check. Orton isnt even close to the leader that Trent was.

But...Orton>Grbac

just sayin.

KCrockaholic
10-21-2009, 11:54 PM
Who is better: 2009 Orton or 2003 Green?

I will take Trent anyday of the week over Orton, in each of their primes.

Orton is probably in his prime right now, what you see now from Orton will never be any better. Can it stay the same? Yes. But better? No. That offense is built around making sure Kyle doesnt make mistakes. He plays to not lose the game.

Taco John
10-21-2009, 11:54 PM
Heh, maybe he meant Green? If so, he needs a reality check. Orton isnt even close to the leader that Trent was.



How do you figure that to be true?

KCrockaholic
10-21-2009, 11:56 PM
How do you figure that to be true?

In 2003 Trent had been with KC for his 3rd year. Trent was the leader of that team. In Denver, Orton is the new guy, and he is not going to step in and become a great leader overnight. Maybe give him a couple more years, but right now, if you ask me, Casey Weigmann is the leader of the Broncos offense.

Taco John
10-21-2009, 11:57 PM
I will take Trent anyday of the week over Orton, in each of their primes.

Orton is probably in his prime right now, what you see now from Orton will never be any better. Can it stay the same? Yes. But better? No. That offense is built around making sure Kyle doesnt make mistakes. He plays to not lose the game.


The offense is built around creating mismatches through formations and allowing the quarterback to make pre-snap reads. Josh doesn't have to build an offense around something that isn't typical of Orton. Kyle just doesn't make many mistakes. That's his record back to Chicago even.

Taco John
10-21-2009, 11:59 PM
In Denver, Orton is the new guy, and he is not going to step in and become a great leader overnight.

It appears that you've missed the fact that it's already a done deal. He has stepped in and become a leader on this team overnight. I'm guessing you don't read much about the Broncos, given your takes here.


Maybe give him a couple more years, but right now, if you ask me, Casey Weigmann is the leader of the Broncos offense.



*spitting my beer all over my desk*

WHAT!?

KCrockaholic
10-22-2009, 12:03 AM
It appears that you've missed the fact that it's already a done deal. He has stepped in and become a leader on this team overnight. I'm guessing you don't read much about the Broncos, given your takes here.









My point is that hes not the leader that Trent Green was in 2003. Orton is not that kind of player yet. Its hard to point a finger on who is the leader of the offense for Denver. But Weigmann has the experience and smarts to be the leader for Denver. No one else on that offense...maybe Ryan Clady, could be the all alone leader for that team. The difference is for Denver, they have a defense in 2009. Their leadership comes from the defensive side. The Chiefs in 03 won games with the offense. This is like talking about Eric Hicks being our leader in 03. It doesnt matter because the defense isnt what won us our games.

okcchief
10-22-2009, 12:07 AM
I think Orton and Green are pretty close to be honest. Both can be good if they have good talent around them but neither is going to carry a team. The Offensive line was the star of that Chiefs team. They made Green and Preist look a hell of a lot better than they really were.

Taco John
10-22-2009, 12:07 AM
Well, Kyle Orton is cracking jokes in the huddle during clutch moments, and then following it up with high calibre plays on the field. The guy might not be as comfortable with the team as Trent was in his third year with the team, but given what we're seeing, he's got a significant head start on him (ie. TrINT 2001)

okcchief
10-22-2009, 12:09 AM
Well, Kyle Orton is cracking jokes in the huddle during clutch moments, and then following it up with high calibre plays on the field. The guy might not be as comfortable with the team as Trent was in his third year with the team, but given what we're seeing, he's got a significant head start on him (ie. TrINT 2001)

You can really argue that. Trent was awful in his first year with a first year head coach whose system he already knew.

KCrockaholic
10-22-2009, 12:11 AM
I think Orton and Green are pretty close to be honest. Both can be good if they have good talent around them but neither is going to carry a team. The Offensive line was the star of that Chiefs team. They made Green and Preist look a hell of a lot better than they really were.

Very true. The same thing can be said for Denver though. Their O-line has been great so far, only allowing 9 sacks so far is a good job.

KCrockaholic
10-22-2009, 12:12 AM
I guess another question would be, whos a better leader? Cassel or Orton?

throw records out the window and focus on what they have done for their teams, work ethic and such.

okcchief
10-22-2009, 12:14 AM
Very true. The same thing can be said for Denver though. Their O-line has been great so far, only allowing 9 sacks so far is a good job.

That's why I find them to be pretty similar.

Strangely enough the Orton/Cutler trade was a good thing for Denver and Chicago. Both teams seem to be better to me after the QB switch.

I hate seeing the Donx be good. Here is hoping the piss down their legs soon :)

KCrockaholic
10-22-2009, 12:17 AM
That's why I find them to be pretty similar.

Strangely enough the Orton/Cutler trade was a good thing for Denver and Chicago. Both teams seem to be better to me after the QB switch.

I hate seeing the Donx be good. Here is hoping the piss down their legs soon :)

I thought it was funny when sooo many people thought Denver got the raw deal on the trade. All the picks, and Orton, was just unreal what Chicago was willing to give up to have Cutler. I thought Denver got the better end of the deal back when it happened.

okcchief
10-22-2009, 12:18 AM
Very true. The same thing can be said for Denver though. Their O-line has been great so far, only allowing 9 sacks so far is a good job.

I think it could be said Orton is just as good of a leader. I'm not sure what made Trent such a good leader in your eyes. Even if it is true Trent was in his 30's and Orton is in his 20's. Orton just joined the team this year but you could kind of get the vibe Monday that his teamates listen and believe in him.

It's not like Trent picked the team up and guided various comebacks and playoff appearances, wins, etc. I'm not saying Orton has but the year isn't over and he only has room to improve.

DaneMcCloud
10-22-2009, 12:19 AM
What are you talking about?

Were you making a claim that the Chiefs O-line in 2003 was overrated?

Green was also the QB of the 2002 team.

I'm lost here. Just lost.


Why did you mention Grbac? Wouldn't Trent Green be more applicable?

Complete and utter breakdown of all neural activity in my brain last night.

okcchief
10-22-2009, 12:20 AM
I thought it was funny when sooo many people thought Denver got the raw deal on the trade. All the picks, and Orton, was just unreal what Chicago was willing to give up to have Cutler. I thought Denver got the better end of the deal back when it happened.

Yeah, when you consider the picks Denver will be the winner bigtime in the long run. For now, I think it has helped Chicago as well but they may as well skip the draft next year with Cutler and Adams.

KCrockaholic
10-22-2009, 12:21 AM
I think it could be said Orton is just as good of a leader. I'm not sure what made Trent such a good leader in your eyes. Even if it is true Trent was in his 30's and Orton is in his 20's. Orton just joined the team this year but you could kind of get the vibe Monday that his teamates listen and believe in him.

It's not like Trent picked the team up and guided various comebacks and playoff appearances, wins, etc. I'm not saying Orton has but the year isn't over and he only has room to improve.


Ok I can accept that... But hey, how could you forget the greatest comeback in Leabeau history?

okcchief
10-22-2009, 12:21 AM
Complete and utter breakdown of all neural activity in my brain last night.

LOL, I thought so. I have those nights too :)

okcchief
10-22-2009, 12:24 AM
Ok I can accept that... But hey, how could you forget the greatest comeback in Leabeau history?

Yeah, that is really the one comeback that sticks out. I guess as a long time frustrated Chiefs fan the ones they didn't finish off always stick out more.

I have no problems with Trent but a lot of QBs would have had more success with that team. He was nothing overly special to me but he did a nice job. When you compare him the long line of shitty QBs we've been through he could be considered special lol.

KCrockaholic
10-22-2009, 12:28 AM
Yeah, that is really the one comeback that sticks out. I guess as a long time frustrated Chiefs fan the ones they didn't finish off always stick out more.

I have no problems with Trent but a lot of QBs would have had more success with that team. He was nothing overly special to me but he did a nice job. When you compare him the long line of shitty QBs we've been through he could be considered special lol.

I guess so. He was the 2nd best....maybe 3rd best QB the Chiefs ever had, next to Len Dawson, and maybe Joe Montana. I think that makes him special.

DaneMcCloud
10-22-2009, 12:29 AM
I guess so. He was the 2nd best....maybe 3rd best QB the Chiefs ever had, next to Len Dawson, and maybe Joe Montana. I think that makes him special.

I think that makes it sad

KCrockaholic
10-22-2009, 12:31 AM
I think that makes it sad

:) I guess thats another way to put it.

jaa1025
10-22-2009, 12:53 AM
Isn't that the QB's job? Kyle Orton is playing as good as any QB in the NFL right now.

http://i35.tinypic.com/2552xqq.png

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

You give most of those QB's the surrounding talent and system and they put up the same numbers or better. Orton just happened to find the perfect offense for his mediocrity to shine.

orange
10-22-2009, 12:56 AM
Orton will never truly be the Broncos' leader until he points out that he can't throw the passes and catch them, too.

orange
10-22-2009, 12:58 AM
Complete and utter breakdown of all neural activity in my brain last night.

You should be heartened, anyway. The number of people who asked WTF you were talking about indicates that your opinion is received pretty seriously around here.

DaneMcCloud
10-22-2009, 12:58 AM
You give most of those QB's the surrounding talent and system and they put up the same numbers or better. Orton just happened to find the perfect offense for his mediocrity to shine.

Many mediocre QB's have won the Super Bowl.

Dilfer, Johnson, Rypien, Hostetler, etc.

Von Dumbass
10-22-2009, 03:43 AM
You give most of those QB's the surrounding talent and system and they put up the same numbers or better. Orton just happened to find the perfect offense for his mediocrity to shine.

Matt Cassel didn't and he had 4 or 5 years to learn the offense.

Fritz88
10-22-2009, 05:10 AM
They are primed for an SB. Yes, they are that good.

Mile High Mania
10-22-2009, 07:25 AM
You're not really going to credit Orton with the TD pass against Dallas are you? That was a terrible pass, at least 5 yards underthrown. Then Marshall weaves through guys for 30 yards. That play was ALL Marshall.

Hell, his two biggest plays of the year (Cinci, Dallas) were terrible throws salvaged by WRs...

That being said, by and large, he's done what he's needed to do so far...

Orton didn't hit him in stride, but it wasn't a horribly underthrown ball as you claim...

He's made a number of solid passes.

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Shag
10-22-2009, 09:28 AM
Orton didn't hit him in stride, but it wasn't a horribly underthrown ball as you claim...

He's made a number of solid passes.

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I'm not sure what clip you're watching, but Marshall had the defender beat by 2 steps and gaining. Even a decent pass, and he likely goes straight down the sideline into the endzone. Instead, Marshall has to stop his route entirely, and wait for the ball - he had to outjump the DB that he had already beaten by 2 steps. That pass was terribly underthrown, likely because Orton didn't step into the throw, even with no pressure...

I'm also not claiming he hasn't made solid passes - that's just not one of them.

Mile High Mania
10-22-2009, 09:31 AM
I'm not sure what clip you're watching, but Marshall had the defender beat by 2 steps and gaining. Even a decent pass, and he likely goes straight down the sideline into the endzone. Instead, Marshall has to stop his route entirely, and wait for the ball - he had to outjump the DB that he had already beaten by 2 steps. That pass was terribly underthrown, likely because Orton didn't step into the throw, even with no pressure...

I'm also not claiming he hasn't made solid passes - that's just not one of them.

I admitted that he didn't hit him in stride... I just didn't think it was a horribly underthrown pass, Marshall made a great adjustment. Not all QBs hit all their WRs in stride every time.

BigMeatballDave
10-22-2009, 10:14 AM
I missed this thread... Anyway, I'm sure its been said, but these Broncos are not the 2003 Chiefs. Thoes Chiefs had a horrible D. Denvers D is pretty good. Denvers O isnt nearly as potent, but they play mistake free and effecient.

King_Chief_Fan
10-22-2009, 11:15 AM
Think about it, crazy last second plays or multiple kick returns to pull out an improbable victory. That's just how we won early on in 2003 until the end of the year rolled around and the meltdown started. I'm still waiting for it. I'm not sold on the Broncos yet.

They have 6-0 against very solid teams. What is it you want?
Their D is tearing it up making it easy for their offesne.
There is no similarity between the 2003 Chiefs and this years's donks.

Shaid
11-15-2009, 10:18 PM
The meltdown has begun. 3 losses in a row.

CoMoChief
11-15-2009, 10:43 PM
I said this is previous Donk thread......A Denver meltdown is upon us all.

They also may lose their next 4 games. Probably not, but its possible. At best they go 2-2 in that stretch.

Next week it's SD, and if it weren't for poor ST play, SD wins that first matchup earlier in the season.

Then they play NYG, who aren't playing up to par, but there a team that can be VERY good. I think theyre better than Denver anyways.

Then its off to Arrowhead where Denver has a history of stinking up the joint there with hilarious and porr play.

Then they get Peyton Manning and the Colts the following week.