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DaWolf
10-25-2009, 11:08 PM
Haley needs to change some things in order to survive (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1529650.html)

Dear Todd Haley:

I want you to succeed. You strike me as a good person, someone who has earned the opportunity to be a head coach in the NFL.

You need a friend, a confidant willing to share with you the uncomfortable truths that may help you grow and reach your goals.

Youíre screwing up, setting yourself up to be the scapegoat for Clark Huntís and Scott Pioliís decision to assemble a salary-cap-friendly, low-talent football team.

Sunday, during the Chiefsí 37-7 loss to the Chargers, your performance raised serious questions about your ability to lead a football team. Youíre on the clock now. Itís highly unlikely, but you could be fired at the end of this season. Youíll definitely enter the 2010 season on the hot seat.

Your decision-making on Sunday was that bad.

You coach with your heart, not your head. Thatís a major no-no for a football coach at any level. Emotion ó not logic ó made you go for it on fourth and 1 at your 41 in the first quarter. Emotion ó not logic ó caused you to mismanage the clock on Kansas Cityís final drive of the first half. You used two timeouts on that drive when you shouldnít have used any, leaving the Chargers 67 seconds and two timeouts to mount their own successful last-minute drive.

Youíre better than you were at the start of the season, but you still waste an enormous amount of mental energy yelling at your players, assistant coaches and the refs.

You donít appear to understand your job.

Head coaches donít coach on Sundays. They coach six days a week and then on Sundays, they make a never-ending series of rational decisions. Youíve chosen to call the offensive plays, which means youíre required to make far more rational decisions than a head coach who chooses not to be offensive or defensive coordinator.

Youíre consistently making irrational decisions because youíre trying to coach on Sundays. As a head coach, you have to think on Sundays. Trust your assistants to coach. Let them do their jobs.

You made a mistake dumping Chan Gailey. Youíve attached your reputation and credibility to the performance of this offense. For the second time this season, you promoted a receiving no-name ó Bobby Wade and Lance Long ó from the scrap heap to starring role on Sunday.

Thatís an emotional decision. After the game, you said you elevated Long from the practice squad because he could help your special teams. If so, then why was he the intended target on five passes, as many as Dwayne Bowe?

And why did you deactivate safety Jarrad Page? This whole mentality that everyone drafted by Herm Edwards and Carl Peterson stinks and deserves to be humiliated is getting real old. Mike Brown has in no way been an improvement over Page and Bernard Pollard. And Darren Sproles put a clown suit on Jon McGraw in the open field.

The play of Kansas Cityís safeties this year has been significantly worse than a year ago.

Grow up, Todd. Youíre blowing this opportunity, and itís shaping up as the only one youíre going to get in the NFL. If you fail here, the knock on you is going to be youíre too immature and emotional to be a head coach.

You realize quarterbacks get coaches fired in the NFL?

Matt Cassel was embarrassing on Sunday. He overthrew open receivers downfield, flashing the major weakness that haunted him in his one season as New Englandís starter. Cassel tossed two terrible interceptions. He threw one pick that wasnít his fault, and a fourth pick was wiped out by a San Diego penalty.

Oh, and Cassel is showing signs of Post Traumatic Sacks Disorder, the reflex action of crouching in the fetal position in anticipation of pass-rush pressure.

The easy cop-out would be to blame all of Casselís problems on KCís overmatched offensive line and Boweís nasty habit of dropping balls that hit him in the hands. But once you look at the tape, youíll see what I see.

Cassel ainít all that.

Do you think Pioli will admit that anytime soon?

No. He gave Cassel $60 million after watching him overthrow and underthrow Randy Moss.

Did you get $60 million, Todd? Pioli is going to choose Cassel over you. Youíre easy and relatively inexpensive to replace. Pioli can blame your hire on the timing of his own hiring and Clark Huntís insistence that Pioli consider retaining Herm Edwards.

Pioli can float the idea that under ideal circumstances, he wouldíve hired Josh McDaniels, the Denver golden boy who is winning with Kyle Orton at QB and bad-boy receiver Brandon Marshall making big plays.

Todd, youíre headed to your bye week. Take some time to reflect. Reinvent yourself as a head coach. Carry yourself like a leader the last nine games. You donít want to make it effortless for someone to play you as a scapegoat.

Sincerely,

Jason

Mecca
10-25-2009, 11:11 PM
Sadly...he's right.

Haley will go long before Cassel does.

tyler360
10-25-2009, 11:14 PM
I am tired of people saying that Cassel needs more around him to suceed. I will say that he does not have much to work with. But it is time for him to start producing after that huge contract he was given during the offseason

KC kid
10-25-2009, 11:15 PM
Cassel may have sucked today, but Haley was a moron

DeezNutz
10-25-2009, 11:16 PM
Whitlock is absolutely correct, but I'm sure he'll be discredited because he's fat.

Mecca
10-25-2009, 11:16 PM
The talent around him had nothing to do with those awful picks today or the fact that he missed throws he should be making.

lostcause
10-25-2009, 11:17 PM
Every time I watch the Chiefs play this season I'm like, wtf? Then I listen to Haley, and for some reason the ineffectiveness on the field makes sense. Then I watch them play again, and I'm like wtf? Then I listen....

DeezNutz
10-25-2009, 11:18 PM
cdcox and I noted it in the game thread: Cassel also pulled a Huard at one point during today's game.

Instead of looking downfield, he looked to the line, expecting pressure that wasn't quite there yet, and assumed the fetal.

Very, very alarming. And, no, it's not understandable on any level. He gets no pass for this, line be damned. He simply cannot go full Huard.

tyler360
10-25-2009, 11:19 PM
People have been saying that he just had a bad game and he will bounce back. Bullshit is what I say. He has missed throws like what he missed today all damn season.

Mecca
10-25-2009, 11:20 PM
He's actually had several bad games, he just wasn't throwing picks so he was getting a pass and he also put up some garbage time numbers against Philly and NY.

Jerm
10-25-2009, 11:21 PM
I agree with him for once but if he's going to bash Cassel, he should be blasting the O-line and Bowe instead of giving them free passes. Fair is fair.

The rest is solid though.
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-King-
10-25-2009, 11:21 PM
Well damn, I thought this was a discussion board. There's nothing to discuss about that article; its all true.
Posted via Mobile Device

tyler360
10-25-2009, 11:22 PM
cdcox and I noted it in the game thread: Cassel also pulled a Huard at one point during today's game.

Instead of looking downfield, he looked to the line, expecting pressure that wasn't quite there yet, and assumed the fetal.

Very, very alarming. And, no, it's not understandable on any level. He gets no pass for this, line be damned. He simply cannot go full Huard.

Yes I remember this play. It was horrible when I saw it developing I thought Damon Huard 2.0. His play today made me give up the faint hope that he might actually develop into a decent qb. That play will forever be burned into my mind showing what Cassel is really all about

Jerm
10-25-2009, 11:23 PM
Jack Harry went apeshit...hilarious.

The Haley honeymoon is officially over, will be funny to listen to the radio shows tomorrow.
Posted via Mobile Device

Count Alex's Losses
10-25-2009, 11:23 PM
Whitlock is trying to drive a wedge between Pioli and Haley.

Ain't gonna work. If anything, Pioli's personnel decisions so far have been a lot worse than Haley's coaching decisions, if you believe Pioli is the one calling all the talent shots.

lostcause
10-25-2009, 11:24 PM
There has been nothing at all shown this season that says that Brodie shouldn't be taking snaps. I'm not saying he's good or can obviously stay healthy, but in limited opportunity has been far far far more effective leading whatever this attack we have is than cassel has. Barring that late TD against the Cowboys i don't recall a thing Matt has done to validate his starting job.

DaneMcCloud
10-25-2009, 11:24 PM
I am tired of people saying that Cassel needs more around him to suceed. I will say that he does not have much to work with. But it is time for him to start producing after that huge contract he was given during the offseason

This is about as fucking stupid as comments get around here

Mecca
10-25-2009, 11:24 PM
And if given the call Pioli would fire Haley before benching his boy he deemed the franchise, that's kinda the point.

DaWolf
10-25-2009, 11:25 PM
If Cassel makes a habit of that, then I think it will be evident that he's not cut out to be a starter. But I'm of the opinion that everyone has a bad day, and if you want to use the example of Trent Green before he was surrounded by talent, a bad year.

I think the bigger question will be are we seeing progress heading into next year? Whitlock is right, Haley is in a real bad position right now. And if this team shows zero signs of getting better, if we keep seeing rash decisions being made, and if the players start quitting on him this season, well there are only so many players you can get rid of...

DeezNutz
10-25-2009, 11:26 PM
Whitlock is trying to drive a wedge between Pioli and Haley.

Ain't gonna work. If anything, Pioli's personnel decisions so far have been a lot worse than Haley's coaching decisions, if you believe Pioli is the one calling all the talent shots.

He's not driving anything.

The wedge's name is Matt Cassel, and this is a Scott Pioli invention.

For the sake of argument, do we believe that Haley has the authority to bench Cassel?

Mecca
10-25-2009, 11:28 PM
I don't remotely believe Haley will ever bench Cassel because that is Pioli's guy.

Cassel is this teams QB for atleast 3 or 4 years regardless because of that trade and contract. If it's not working they'll bring in a new coach before they get rid of him. Like was said QB's get coaches fired and Pioli obviously put his eggs in the Cassel basket.

-King-
10-25-2009, 11:28 PM
I agree with him for once but if he's going to bash Cassel, he should be blasting the O-line and Bowe instead of giving them free passes. Fair is fair.

The rest is solid though.
Posted via Mobile Device

No one is giving them a free pass. But the passes cassel made today were flat out horrendous. How do you overthrow a guy who runs like a 4.3 who was wide open? How do you follow that up and overthrow wade for what looked like could have been a td if it were a good pass. How do you follow that up by overthrowing everyone and damn near punting the ball to the safety a few series later? All that is on cassel. We can bitch about all the other stuff all wewant but the major mistakes were on cassel.

And haley is supposed to be an offensive minded coach. Well get your head out of your ass and call good plays. A fucking qb sneak on damn near 4th and 2 on your own 41? In herms words: are you kidding me?
Posted via Mobile Device

Jerm
10-25-2009, 11:29 PM
No one is giving them a free pass. But the passes cassel made today were flat out horrendous. How do you overthrow a guy who runs like a 4.3 who was wide open? How do you follow that up and overthrow wade for what looked like could have been a td if it were a good pass. How do you follow that up by overthrowing everyone and damn near punting the ball to the safety a few series later? All that is on cassel. We can bitch about all the other stuff all wewant but the major mistakes were on cassel.

And haley is supposed to be an offensive minded coach. Well get your head out of your ass and call good plays. A fucking qb sneak on damn near 4th and 2 on your own 41? In herms words: are you kidding me?
Posted via Mobile Device

Just to be clear, I'm not defending either...they both deserve what they're getting.

The 4th down call was absolutely moronic.
Posted via Mobile Device

DeezNutz
10-25-2009, 11:30 PM
A ****ing qb sneak on damn near 4th and 2 on your own 41? In herms words: are you kidding me?
Posted via Mobile Device

If Herm had made that call...wow.

Haley seems like a good dude, but he's just taking on too much right now. That's the kind of call that's so inexplicably stupid that no clear thinking person would do it.

He's brain fried on the sideline and needs to delegate more responsibility.

DaWolf
10-25-2009, 11:30 PM
He's not driving anything.

The wedge's name is Matt Cassel, and this is a Scott Pioli invention.

For the sake of argument, do we believe that Haley has the authority to bench Cassel?

I think people are way too caught up in this whole contract thing. I think if anything, Pioli's background and the way he's operated indicates that he would be more willing to whack Cassel if he wasn't what he thought he was rather than sink with the ship, if that's where it goes, than other GM's around the league would be.

I'm also pretty sure the backup QB's on this team aren't much of an upgrade over Cassel...

DaneMcCloud
10-25-2009, 11:31 PM
I think people are way too caught up in this whole contract thing. I think if anything, Pioli's background and the way he's operated indicates that he would be more willing to whack Cassel if he wasn't what he thought he was rather than sink with the ship, if that's where it goes, than other GM's around the league would be.

I'm also pretty sure the backup QB's on this team aren't much of an upgrade over Cassel...

No fucking way.

The Chiefs aren't going to give away $15 million dollars for free.

Mecca
10-25-2009, 11:32 PM
The only QB he ever whacked was Bledsoe who he didn't draft or resign so what makes you think he'd do that?

His first big move as GM was basically saying here's my franchise guy...Matt Cassel.

Count Alex's Losses
10-25-2009, 11:32 PM
And if given the call Pioli would fire Haley before benching his boy he deemed the franchise, that's kinda the point.

I don't think either of those things are going to happen.

I think Haley and Pioli are all-in on Cassel.

-King-
10-25-2009, 11:33 PM
If Herm had made that call...wow.

Haley seems like a good dude, but he's just taking on too much right now. That's the kind of call that's so inexplicably stupid that no clear thinking person would do it.

He's brain fried on the sideline and needs to delegate more responsibility.

Isn't chan still technically with the team? He should be calling the plays.

Fire clancy during the bye and hire anybody on this forum. I'm 100% sure we can coordinate the defense way better than he can.
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DaneMcCloud
10-25-2009, 11:34 PM
I don't think either of those things are going to happen.

I think Haley and Pioli are all-in on Cassel.

Um, no.

Pioli could fire Haley and cut Cassel in two years and still keep his job.

Count Alex's Losses
10-25-2009, 11:34 PM
If Herm had made that call...wow.

Haley seems like a good dude, but he's just taking on too much right now. That's the kind of call that's so inexplicably stupid that no clear thinking person would do it.

He's brain fried on the sideline and needs to delegate more responsibility.

He is a little too aggressive at times.

We went from a complete pussy on the sideline to a guy who would lose his ass at Vegas in 30 minutes.

Flustrating.

WildTurkey
10-25-2009, 11:34 PM
The answer is obviously Jeff George.... guy has a cannon I'm told

DeezNutz
10-25-2009, 11:34 PM
Isn't chan still technically with the team? He should be calling the plays.

Fire clancy during the bye and hire anybody on this forum. I'm 100% sure we can coordinate the defense way better than he can.
Posted via Mobile Device

Chan is with this team on paper alone.

Hell, he could be posting right now. He might be Dane. :eek:

Mecca
10-25-2009, 11:34 PM
I don't think either of those things are going to happen.

I think Haley and Pioli are all-in on Cassel.

And if it doesn't work out, it'll get Haley fired first and if Pioli is stubborn about it it eventually get him fired.

-King-
10-25-2009, 11:35 PM
I don't think either of those things are going to happen.

I think Haley and Pioli are all-in on Cassel.

Seriously doubt it. After so many bad plays haley has to wonder if croyle can produce better. He did agaisnt the ravens.
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DeezNutz
10-25-2009, 11:36 PM
He is a little too aggressive at times.

We went from a complete pussy on the sideline to a guy who would lose his ass at Vegas in 30 minutes.

Flustrating.

It's a strange juxtaposition at times.

Don't go for it inside the 10. Onside kick.

Go for it on 4th on your own 40. Call a QB sneak.

Terribly conservative. Very daring.

Very daring. Mind-numbingly conservative.

Strange.

KCDC
10-25-2009, 11:36 PM
Everybody has a bad game. Look at Kerry Collins last week. *That* was truly horrifying. Golden Boy Sanchez has had some bad games. The key is to keep Cassel healthy and going out there and gaining experience from mistakes. Eventually, he'll get in synch with his ragtag receivers.

But, I do want Pioli to stop trashing any player associated with Herm and Carl. As was stated by another, it is not clear that the waiver wire crap is any better than the players ejected because they were drafted and coached by the wrong person.

KCChiefsFan88
10-25-2009, 11:36 PM
Whitlock is correct that someone is going to take the fall for this disaster of a season, especially if it ends worse than the Herm/Dictator Carl fiasco from last year. It won't be Pioli or Cassel and with several big fish in the available head coaching pool this offseason, making Haley the fall guy might be too logical to pass up.

DeezNutz
10-25-2009, 11:37 PM
Everybody has a bad game.

Very true. Most also sprinkle in a good game.

Count Alex's Losses
10-25-2009, 11:37 PM
He's not driving anything.

The wedge's name is Matt Cassel, and this is a Scott Pioli invention.

For the sake of argument, do we believe that Haley has the authority to bench Cassel?

I think he can do whatever he damn well pleases.

But like I said...I don't believe Haley would accepted Cassel as his quarterback if he didn't believe he was "the guy." His personality is too strong to let someone else dictate to him like that.

He's no foot-shuffling porter, ya dig?

Mecca
10-25-2009, 11:38 PM
Everybody has a bad game. Look at Kerry Collins last week. *That* was truly horrifying. Golden Boy Sanchez has had some bad games. The key is to keep Cassel healthy and going out there and gaining experience from mistakes. Eventually, he'll get in synch with his ragtag receivers.

But, I do want Pioli to stop trashing any player associated with Herm and Carl. As was stated by another, it is not clear that the waiver wire crap is any better than the players ejected because they were drafted and coached by the wrong person.

If we're using Kerry Collins and a rookie as his comparisons, that's pretty much all that needs to be said. Trade is a loser.

DeezNutz
10-25-2009, 11:39 PM
I think he can do whatever he damn well pleases.

But like I said...I don't believe Haley would accepted Cassel as his quarterback if he didn't believe he was "the guy." His personality is too strong to let someone else dictate to him like that.

He's no foot-shuffling porter, ya dig?

You might be right.

But he's also the guy who can win with "22 guys off the street." He'll coach up anyone.

One thing is for damn certain: he wasn't passing up the opportunity to be a HC in this league, and if it meant getting Matt Cassel as his QB, so be it.

WildTurkey
10-25-2009, 11:39 PM
Whitlock is correct that someone is going to take the fall for this disaster of a season, especially if it ends worse than the Herm/Dictator Carl fiasco from last year. It won't be Pioli or Cassel and with several big fish in the available head coaching pool this offseason, making Haley the fall guy might be too logical to pass up.

seriously a front office and coach get one year.... no wait 7 games to overhaul a terrible team.... rag on the moves they have made all you want but seriously we are already at this point wow us Chiefs fans are a very emotionally fragile fan base

Mecca
10-25-2009, 11:40 PM
Apparently to succeed with Cassel you need Josh McDaniels that guy can do it with Kyle Orton for christ sake.

DaneMcCloud
10-25-2009, 11:40 PM
seriously a front office and coach get one year.... no wait 7 games to overhaul a terrible team.... rag on the moves they have made all you want but seriously we are already at this point wow us Chiefs fans are a very emotionally fragile fan base

Bullshit.

This front office had months and a full draft to improve this roster.

Have they?

No.

Period. End of story.

Mecca
10-25-2009, 11:41 PM
seriously a front office and coach get one year.... no wait 7 games to overhaul a terrible team.... rag on the moves they have made all you want but seriously we are already at this point wow us Chiefs fans are a very emotionally fragile fan base

Um if you've never noticed, coaches have been fired after 1 year.

DeezNutz
10-25-2009, 11:41 PM
Will there be any moves of note over the bye?

Chan was fired right before the season, soooooooooooo.....can a guy like Clancy get the boot mid-stream?

Discuss Thrower
10-25-2009, 11:42 PM
seriously a front office and coach get one year.... no wait 7 games to overhaul a terrible team.... rag on the moves they have made all you want but seriously we are already at this point wow us Chiefs fans are a very emotionally fragile fan base

Yeah, they are trying to overhaul a terrible team.. But they're trying to do it with career back-ups and castoffs from other teams. How exactly does that work?

DeezNutz
10-25-2009, 11:42 PM
Apparently to succeed with Cassel you need Josh McDaniels that guy can do it with Kyle Orton for christ sake.

And a decent o-line, and Moss, and Welker.

Mecca
10-25-2009, 11:42 PM
Will there be any moves of note over the bye?

Chan was fired right before the season, soooooooooooo.....can a guy like Clancy get the boot mid-stream?

I'm sure we will sign some player who shockingly use to play for the Patriots.

KCChiefsFan88
10-25-2009, 11:42 PM
seriously a front office and coach get one year.... no wait 7 games to overhaul a terrible team.... rag on the moves they have made all you want but seriously we are already at this point wow us Chiefs fans are a very emotionally fragile fan base

Does Cam Cameron, one season and out, 1-15 ring a bell?

If the Chiefs finish worse than last year, it is a very reasonable possibility that Haley will be axed.

WildTurkey
10-25-2009, 11:43 PM
Yeah, they are trying to overhaul a terrible team.. But they're trying to do it with career back-ups and castoffs from other teams. How exactly does that work?

so you expect them to overhaul this entire roster with young elite talent in one offseason? I'm failing to see how that works

DeezNutz
10-25-2009, 11:44 PM
I'm sure we will sign some player who shockingly use to play for the Patriots.

I said "moves of note" not a continuation of our off-season plan.

WildTurkey
10-25-2009, 11:44 PM
Does Cam Cameron, one season and out, 1-15 ring a bell?

If the Chiefs finish worse than last year, it is a very reasonable possibility that Haley will be axed.

Bullshit... this was a throw away year and Haley and Pioli knew it from day one.... they are still tearing down this house we call the chiefs

DaWolf
10-25-2009, 11:45 PM
The only QB he ever whacked was Bledsoe who he didn't draft or resign so what makes you think he'd do that?

His first big move as GM was basically saying here's my franchise guy...Matt Cassel.

Well if we're going to say that this guy is so big on the "Patriot's Way", then you've got to say that if it is apparent that Matt Cassel is not going to be a QB you can win with, then they will admit that and pull the plug.

If you are going to assume that all that is all of a sudden out the window and all of a sudden Pioli is Carl Peterson and he's too proud to admit a mistake and would rather have multiple losing seasons than to replace the QB, then fine. I've just seen no evidence in the past that this has been his mode of operation.

And remember, whether we signed him to an extension or just kept him on his franchise contract, he was going to get paid that 15 mil one way or another. It's something totally different to say you are going to pay the guy going forward whatever base salary and roster bonuses he has if it is apparent that he's not the guy.

But I think before we even reach that point, they have to at least try to build a team around the guy. I am frankly more concerned that Pioli's choice as head coach is not going to work out...

DeezNutz
10-25-2009, 11:45 PM
so you expect them to overhaul this entire roster with young elite talent in one offseason? I'm failing to see how that works

I expect them to make moves that improve the team.

I'll spot you one: Suck up.

Give me two others.

KCChiefsFan88
10-25-2009, 11:46 PM
so you expect them to overhaul this entire roster with young elite talent in one offseason? I'm failing to see how that works

No, but the Chiefs could have been more aggressive with the amount of salary cap room they had available in upgrading the overall talent level on the roster.

The Chiefs have been tearing down, tearing down, tearing down and tearing down the past 2 years now. At some point Clark is going to have to open his wallet and allow the actual REBUILDING of the roster.

DaneMcCloud
10-25-2009, 11:46 PM
Bullshit... this was a throw away year and Haley and Pioli knew it from day one.... they are still tearing down this house we call the chiefs

Name ONE impact player Pioli has acquired either through the draft or free agency.

Chocolate Hog
10-25-2009, 11:46 PM
You people are fucking hilarious really. You say how the team is going to suck and then when they suck you still bitch. What the fuck did you expect?

Mecca
10-25-2009, 11:47 PM
No one was asking the team to win 10 games, but I am asking for competent coaching decisions and players to play properly.

When young players play they will make mistakes but this team rarely even plays young players now, now we have vet scrubs who can't even do things right.

There have just been a lot of things happening this year that raise huge red flags.

KCChiefsFan88
10-25-2009, 11:47 PM
You people are ****ing hilarious really. You say how the team is going to suck and then when they suck you still bitch. What the **** did you expect?

I didn't expect the Chiefs to be WORSE on offense under Haley than they were under Herm.

DeezNutz
10-25-2009, 11:47 PM
What the **** did you expect?

Progress.

Realizing that this would NOT be measured in wins and losses.

Mecca
10-25-2009, 11:48 PM
You people are fucking hilarious really. You say how the team is going to suck and then when they suck you still bitch. What the fuck did you expect?

There's a big difference in knowing the team won't win many games and expecting to see progress and certain things.

All this team is showing is huge red flag and a lack of competency.

Discuss Thrower
10-25-2009, 11:48 PM
so you expect them to overhaul this entire roster with young elite talent in one offseason? I'm failing to see how that works

I expect that a GM should be savvy enough not to give a guy $28m for Damon Huard/Tyler Thigpen like performances when he could have simply kept the tag on him for a season or two to see how he pans out.

Mecca
10-25-2009, 11:48 PM
Todd Haley is right up there with Herm in how he manages a game.

We've seen no significant improvement, he just yells while Herm was calm.

Chocolate Hog
10-25-2009, 11:49 PM
The D-line seems improved. Cassel is better then what the Chiefs had at Quarterback, It looks like the defense will have more then 10 sacks, Special Teams is actually pretty good.

Mecca
10-25-2009, 11:49 PM
I expect that a GM should be savvy enough not to give a guy $28m for Damon Huard/Tyler Thigpen like performances when he could have simply kept the tag on him for a season or two to see how he pans out.

That was never going to happen though, if he had traded for Cassel not signed him then let him walk all without drafting a QB everyone would have called him a moron.

Discuss Thrower
10-25-2009, 11:49 PM
Todd Haley is right up there with Herm in how he manages a game.

We've seen no significant improvement, he just yells while Herm was calm.

As much as it pains me to say it, this.


Yiiiiiiikes.

KCChiefsFan88
10-25-2009, 11:49 PM
Todd Haley is right up there with Herm in how he manages a game.

We've seen no significant improvement, he just yells while Herm was calm.

Perhaps he needs Herm's "Game Management Shaman" Dick Curl.

WildTurkey
10-25-2009, 11:52 PM
Name ONE impact player Pioli has acquired either through the draft or free agency.

Matt Cassel believe it or not he will have an impact whether it be good or bad who knows

DeezNutz
10-25-2009, 11:53 PM
Matt Cassel believe it or not he will have an impact whether it be good or bad who knows

Well, fuck, in that case: I raise you one Mike Brown and a Mike Goff for good measure.

Two impact additions.

DaWolf
10-25-2009, 11:54 PM
You've got to wonder though, with teams like the Lions, Rams, Chiefs, Browns, Raiders, and Tampa no better than they were last year, was there actually that much help available this past offseason to turn these really bad teams around?

This season, oddly enough, seems to be relatively status quo from last season, with the exception of Cincy and Tennessee. It's easy to say we shoulda spent more, but was there really that much talent out there to spend it on? Or did teams just do a really good job this offseason keeping their talented guys and making sure only the trash hit the market for the most part?

Discuss Thrower
10-25-2009, 11:54 PM
Matt Cassel believe it or not he will have an impact whether it be good or bad who knows

Ohhh, c'mon. You could've at least thrown in Corey Mays and maybe even Jovan Belcher in with Succop.

BTW, if anyone here was the dude sat in the first row behind the Chiefs bench wearing a Mizzou visor and you heckled Succop for missing the kick you have no spine and you lack a clue.

Demonpenz
10-25-2009, 11:55 PM
I wanted this team to be able to throw and catch like a little league team. Cassel sucks. He just sucks. We need a new LT and QB.

WildTurkey
10-25-2009, 11:56 PM
the new regime has mad mistakes believe me I know.... but I'm not ready to tear up and start over once again after 7 games.... do you realize how ridiculous that is..... fucking seriously bitch and bitch all you want but fucking live in reality this team was going to be this bad this season and you all knew it

WildTurkey
10-25-2009, 11:56 PM
Well, ****, in that case: I raise you one Mike Brown and a Mike Goff for good measure.

Two impact additions.

an aging safety and a G are not impact positions a starting QB however is...

Mecca
10-25-2009, 11:58 PM
If this offseason was as bad as some feel it was, it'll just take us that much longer, you're suppose to build a foundation in the first year..we would have nothing.

We weren't Tampa who was old made a lot of cuts and got young we had already done that.

Demonpenz
10-25-2009, 11:58 PM
the new regime has mad mistakes believe me I know.... but I'm not ready to tear up and start over once again after 7 games.... do you realize how ridiculous that is..... ****ing seriously bitch and bitch all you want but ****ing live in reality this team was going to be this bad this season and you all knew it

really? Seriously it sucks. Spend your money and time and be a drooling retard, congrats. fucking idiot

WildTurkey
10-25-2009, 11:58 PM
Ohhh, c'mon. You could've at least thrown in Corey Mays and maybe even Jovan Belcher in with Succop.

BTW, if anyone here was the dude sat in the first row behind the Chiefs bench wearing a Mizzou visor and you heckled Succop for missing the kick you have no spine and you lack a clue.

so a couple linebackers are equal to a QB? that's good to know

DeezNutz
10-25-2009, 11:58 PM
an aging safety and a G are not impact positions a starting QB however is...

Brown and Goff have had a tremendous impact on games.

And you better believe that safety is an impact position.

WildTurkey
10-25-2009, 11:59 PM
really? Seriously it sucks. Spend your money and time and be a drooling retard, congrats. ****ing idiot

yes I am a drooling homer because I won't call for the fucking coaches head after 7 games....

WildTurkey
10-26-2009, 12:00 AM
Brown and Goff have had a tremendous impact on games.

And you better believe that safety is an impact position.

it is when you have an impact safety

Demonpenz
10-26-2009, 12:01 AM
yes I am a drooling homer because I won't call for the ****ing coaches head after 7 games....

have you WATCHED the games? Seen the Draft picks? I mean holy fucking shit this is why the chiefs deserve to loose ever game forever and frankly they will

DeezNutz
10-26-2009, 12:02 AM
it is when you have an impact safety

And we have one.

He consistently makes a negative impact, but the force is felt nonetheless. Same with all the other sacks brought in by the Executive of the Millennium.

Chocolate Hog
10-26-2009, 12:02 AM
If this offseason was as bad as some feel it was, it'll just take us that much longer, you're suppose to build a foundation in the first year..we would have nothing.

We weren't Tampa who was old made a lot of cuts and got young we had already done that.

I think the Chiefs do have a good foundation though, Cassel & The d-line. All they need is a D-tackle, Fire Pendgerast and draft Berry and maybe its the 20th ranked defense next year.

Fish
10-26-2009, 12:02 AM
We keep regressing. Todd yells more. I drink more bourbon.

WildTurkey
10-26-2009, 12:03 AM
have you WATCHED the games? Seen the Draft picks? I mean holy ****ing shit this is why the chiefs deserve to loose ever game forever and frankly they will

yeah I have watched the games... they are terrible and if they don't add some young core players next offseason then I'll be right there pitchfork in hand

WildTurkey
10-26-2009, 12:03 AM
And we have one.

He consistently makes a negative impact, but the force is felt nonetheless. Same with all the other sacks brought in by the Executive of the Millennium.

that is true rep for that ROFL

DeezNutz
10-26-2009, 12:06 AM
I think the Chiefs do have a good foundation though, Cassel & The d-line. All they need is a D-tackle, Fire Pendgerast and draft Berry and maybe its the 20th ranked defense next year.

ROFL

And this is our hope.

Pass the bourbon, Fish.

Oh, and Cassel kinda sucks.

WildTurkey
10-26-2009, 12:06 AM
If this offseason was as bad as some feel it was, it'll just take us that much longer, you're suppose to build a foundation in the first year..we would have nothing.

We weren't Tampa who was old made a lot of cuts and got young we had already done that.

I do think that Dorsey, Jackson, and Bowe have the potential to be part of that young core..... shit thinking back have we ever drafted someone in the 1st that didn't go to LSU shit :rolleyes:

WildTurkey
10-26-2009, 12:07 AM
Oh yeah nevermind we drafted someone from Texas too... that worked out well

lostcause
10-26-2009, 12:13 AM
We keep regressing. Todd yells more. I drink more bourbon.

Thats not regression, thats acceptance.

T-post Tom
10-26-2009, 12:19 AM
He simply cannot go full Huard.

:clap: Whitlock got this one right.

Cosmos
10-26-2009, 12:47 AM
Whitlock is trying to drive a wedge between Pioli and Haley.

Ain't gonna work. If anything, Pioli's personnel decisions so far have been a lot worse than Haley's coaching decisions, if you believe Pioli is the one calling all the talent shots.

On board...

Cosmos
10-26-2009, 12:49 AM
Chan is with this team on paper alone.

Hell, he could be posting right now. He might be Dane. :eek:

Chan is draft pick compensation, for any team desperate enough.

He won't be around next year in ANY capacity IMO.

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 12:50 AM
Chan is draft pick compensation, for any team desperate enough.

He won't be around next year in ANY capacity IMO.

Draft picks for coaches was outlawed after the 2006 season

Cosmos
10-26-2009, 12:53 AM
That was never going to happen though, if he had traded for Cassel not signed him then let him walk all without drafting a QB everyone would have called him a moron.

Could Piloi have just franchise tagged him in 2010?

salame
10-26-2009, 01:13 AM
Could Piloi have just franchise tagged him in 2010?

http://ny-image1.etsy.com/il_430xN.81929577.jpg

BossChief
10-26-2009, 06:39 AM
The only QB he ever whacked was Bledsoe who he didn't draft or resign so what makes you think he'd do that?

His first big move as GM was basically saying here's my franchise guy...Matt Cassel.

didnt NE resign Bledsoe to a 100 million dollar contract the year before shipping him to Dallas?

Otter
10-26-2009, 06:46 AM
I didn't expect much this season. There are a few things I don't understand such as in bringing in worse o-lineman to replace bad ones but I'm assuming it's to send the message that if you're not playing, you will be replaced.

Haley, Pioli and Hunt have my support till this time next season. If this same merry go round is still going on I'll start being critical but in my book they have a pass until that time.

They inherited a steaming pile of shit. The players don't hate Haley, that's a bunch of bullshit based on what I've seen.

It's really early in this relationship and I'm willing to give it some time.

Go Chiefs *fart sound*

Pioli Zombie
10-26-2009, 06:52 AM
The only QB he ever whacked was Bledsoe who he didn't draft or resign so what makes you think he'd do that?

His first big move as GM was basically saying here's my franchise guy...Matt Cassel.

He was with Belichick in Cleveland when they benched the Sainted Bernie Kosar for Testeverde and then when they went with Brady over Bledsoe. He's not married to players. He's also not an emotional idiot who is going to listen to fans about what to do.
Posted via Mobile Device

memyselfI
10-26-2009, 07:52 AM
Haley's days are numbered. :clap:

TEX
10-26-2009, 07:58 AM
I didn't expect much this season. There are a few things I don't understand such as in bringing in worse o-lineman to replace bad ones but I'm assuming it's to send the message that if you're not playing, you will be replaced.

Haley, Pioli and Hunt have my support till this time next season. If this same merry go round is still going on I'll start being critical but in my book they have a pass until that time.

They inherited a steaming pile of shit. The players don't hate Haley, that's a bunch of bullshit based on what I've seen.

It's really early in this relationship and I'm willing to give it some time.

Go Chiefs *fart sound*

This.

NY CHIEF
10-26-2009, 08:21 AM
Our makeshift ol is the worst in the nfl.....We need at LEAST 2 new starters.. Thank god we have some draft picks stockpiled for next year:clap:

FringeNC
10-26-2009, 08:37 AM
In game coaching decisions had nothing to do with the outcome of the game. Those things matter in close games, not when you get net outgained by 3 yards per play.

The problem is we have no offense. Turns out we lack the line to run the attack Haley wants to run, and if are going to have any success, we're going to have to spread the field again, just like last year.

Why Whitlock wants to focus Haley's in-game decisions is beyond me.

(And by the way, when you are a bad team, you have to take risks to win. Not going for it on the 40 would have been stupid. The mistake Haley made was to attempt to kick the FG at end of the half instead of going for it.)

Reerun_KC
10-26-2009, 08:42 AM
Gotta love Whitlock... When Herm was failing and driving this franchise so far into the ground it will take years to turn around... He will slobbering all over Herm saying we need to give him a chance, blah blah blah...

This is the biggest joke in the KC media, but he controls the CP board with his articles and that I have to give him props for...

Sorry Jason. There isnt a coach or GM in the history of the NFL that is could take the mess Herm and Carl left this franchise in and turn it into a winner in 7 weeks... Nice try, keep reaching and pouting that Herm is gone...

GoTrav
10-26-2009, 08:46 AM
We keep regressing. Todd yells more. I drink more bourbon.

I felt guilty having a three beer buzz at half-time of yesterday's game. I feel I should be doing something more productive with my time...

DJ's left nut
10-26-2009, 08:49 AM
Wow.

I've never finished a Whitlock article and just said "yup".

Until that one. I really can't find a thing to argue with there...well except the "you seem like a nice guy and someone that earned a shot at a HC gig" thing. I think Haley's a churlish prick that rode his daddy's name and Parcells' coattails.

But other than that, pretty spot-on, Whitlock.

DJ's left nut
10-26-2009, 08:56 AM
Very true. Most also sprinkle in a good game.

REPOST!

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=6205332&highlight=sprinkle#post6205332

I will not allow you to go around stealing my witty banter...

Chiefnj2
10-26-2009, 09:04 AM
I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for Haley.

Everyone knew KC needed to dramatically upgrade the OL and pass rush and the team didn't do it in the offseason.

Agreeing to Gailey and then firing him a week before the season starts? Clancy as the DC for a 34 defense? Who is the QB coach? Good head coaches surround themselves with good talent, delegate tasks and have faith in those they hired.

Reerun_KC
10-26-2009, 09:06 AM
Wow.

I've never finished a Whitlock article and just said "yup".

Until that one. I really can't find a thing to argue with there...well except the "you seem like a nice guy and someone that earned a shot at a HC gig" thing. I think Haley's a churlish prick that rode his daddy's name and Parcells' coattails.

But other than that, pretty spot-on, Whitlock.

Neither have I, nor will I continue....

Especially after everyones emotions are running wild like a teenaged girl today...

Warrior5
10-26-2009, 09:07 AM
I didn't expect much this season. There are a few things I don't understand such as in bringing in worse o-lineman to replace bad ones but I'm assuming it's to send the message that if you're not playing, you will be replaced.

Haley, Pioli and Hunt have my support till this time next season. If this same merry go round is still going on I'll start being critical but in my book they have a pass until that time.

They inherited a steaming pile of shit. The players don't hate Haley, that's a bunch of bullshit based on what I've seen.

It's really early in this relationship and I'm willing to give it some time.

Go Chiefs *fart sound*

Kinda this. I'm glad the whole thing was blown in place... the Chiefs were on a perpetual treadmill of medocrity & suckage. I was gladly willing to accept a losing season for the sake of FINALLY, genuinely re-building this franchise. I know Pioli/Haley inherited crap, but I expected to see some progression, development, improvement, and refinement.

After week 7, "re-building" has morphed into an endless pre-season of "evaluating players". Much of the "youth" sits on the bench. No-names, old names, and lame names put on the R&G each Sunday to do... what? Be "evaluated"? The only "development" I see is LJ's ability to twitter-bitch, and Matt Cassel "developing" a severe case of hemorhoids from getting planted on his ass ten times a game.

There is no improvement; KC has taken about 10 steps backward. Take the bye week to get your head out of your 4th point of contact, Haley. Start developing and improving what little talent you have available, and use the last half of the season to build for the off-season. I don't expect to see more than 2 more wins, but I do expect to see less stupidity, less bush-league play, and some improvement.

Reerun_KC
10-26-2009, 09:07 AM
I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for Haley.

Everyone knew KC needed to dramatically upgrade the OL and pass rush and the team didn't do it in the offseason.

Agreeing to Gailey and then firing him a week before the season starts? Clancy as the DC for a 34 defense? Who is the QB coach? Good head coaches surround themselves with good talent, delegate tasks and have faith in those they hired.

What if the ones they want to hire arent avaliable yet?

Reerun_KC
10-26-2009, 09:09 AM
Kinda this. I'm glad the whole thing was blown in place... the Chiefs were on a perpetual treadmill of medocrity & suckage. I was gladly willing to accept a losing season for the sake of FINALLY, genuinely re-building this franchise. I know Pioli/Haley inherited crap, but I expected to see some progression, development, improvement, and refinement.

After week 7, "re-building" has morphed into an endless pre-season of "evaluating players". Much of the "youth" sits on the bench. No-names, old names, and lame names put on the R&G each Sunday to do... what? Be "evaluated"? The only "development" I see is LJ's ability to twitter-bitch, and Matt Cassel "developing" a severe case of hemorhoids from getting planted on his ass ten times a game.

There is no improvement; KC has taken about 10 steps backward. Take the bye week to get your head out of your 4th point of contact, Haley. Start developing and improving what little talent you have available, and use the last half of the season to build for the off-season. I don't expect to see more than 2 more wins, but I do expect to see less stupidity, less bush-league play, and some improvement.


ROFL

Chiefnj2
10-26-2009, 09:12 AM
What if the ones they want to hire arent avaliable yet?

So, this year is a complete waste? We will run an entirely new offense and defense next year? I didn't realize championship teams are built by completely rebuilding every year.

LaChapelle
10-26-2009, 09:13 AM
Haley tries to be unpredictable, failure makes it moot.
He was broken yesterday, like he tries to break his players.
It's build back up time. You got 12 whole days to rebuild. Good luck

Reerun_KC
10-26-2009, 09:14 AM
So, this year is a complete waste? We will run an entirely new offense and defense next year? I didn't realize championship teams are built by completely rebuilding every year.

Sadly regardless of what GM and HC combo that came in... This year was going to be a complete waste....

Hell I have zero clue to what they want or who they are going to hire? Tell me right now you would take Wade Phillips or Remeo Crennell over Pendergast?

Reerun_KC
10-26-2009, 09:15 AM
Haley tries to be unpredictable, failure makes it moot.
He was broken yesterday, like he tries to break his players.
It's build back up time. You got 12 whole days to rebuild. Good luck

Yep! They have 12 days to put a mansion on the pile of quicksand....

LaChapelle
10-26-2009, 09:17 AM
I meant rebuild himself.

DJ's left nut
10-26-2009, 09:18 AM
I assume all the "well at least he's not Herm" folks are aware that the young players progressed FAR better under Herm last year than they have under Haley this season.

Albert, Carr, Leggett, Paige and Flowers all made major strides last season; even Dorsey was looking significantly better as the season went on. Johnson had some of the more consistently strong games of his career at the end of the year. Bowe developed into a true go-to receiver.

Herm was pretty much a joke of a head coach, but at the very least I got the impression that his guys were progressing. Name a young player on this team that you think is progressing from week to week. Dorsey's the only guy I have seen make any true improvements and I think he's actually being held back due to how they're playing him.

Oh, then there's the fact that the Chiefs have already lost 4 games by 10 or more points when they only did that 5 times last season. That would certainly seem to suggest that last year's squad was consistently more competitive.

Folks - "At least he's not Herm" is getting harder and harder to state. I'd have taken the first 7 games of last season over the first 7 of this season in a heartbeat; at least I saw improvement last year.

Reerun_KC
10-26-2009, 09:18 AM
I meant rebuild himself.

:clap:

He needs to take some lessons from Club Herm and say "its okay!"


http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/herm_edwards.jpg

DJ's left nut
10-26-2009, 09:22 AM
Sadly regardless of what GM and HC combo that came in... This year was going to be a complete waste....

Hell I have zero clue to what they want or who they are going to hire? Tell me right now you would take Wade Phillips or Remeo Crennell over Pendergast?

There's never a 'complete waste' of a season in the NFL unless you resign yourself to it.

The Chiefs should've been plucking every UDFA in football off the streets and giving them looks from day 1 if they never intended to compete. Instead they brought in the Mike Browns and Zack Thomas's of the world. They should've tried to get a guy like Jamon Meredith off waivers to fill a slot instead of trading for Ndukwe.

If they had pre-determined that this year didn't matter then they sure as hell shouldn't have dropped a 2nd rounder on a 27 year old QB that would get his ass kicked for a season. Next season we'll have a quarterback that will begin to decline physically due to age/pounding. He'll be shellshocked mentally. And yet somehow we won't actually be any closer to competing because the 2009 season may as well not have happened. This is starting to look a lot like the 2007 trainwreck.

Stating that any NFL season is a complete waste before it starts is assinine. There was progress that could've been made in many areas this season.

Sure, the season's a waste now, but it didn't have to be. This front office simply ****ed it up.

Coogs
10-26-2009, 09:26 AM
So, this year is a complete waste? We will run an entirely new offense and defense next year? I didn't realize championship teams are built by completely rebuilding every year.

Miami sort of did this, and wound up in pretty fair shape once it was all said and done. Saben bailed, one year for everybodys favorite OC of the year Cam Cameron that was in over his head as a HC, and now Sparano.

If we are eventually going to change coaches again, now might be as good of time as any. We still could go 4-3 with the defense just as easily as finish going towards a 3-4. And the offense needs many parts to do anything. Might as well do it now, instead of three years down the road, and then start all over again with some new coaches "players".

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 09:28 AM
I don't remotely believe Haley will ever bench Cassel because that is Pioli's guy.

Cassel is this teams QB for atleast 3 or 4 years regardless because of that trade and contract. If it's not working they'll bring in a new coach before they get rid of him. Like was said QB's get coaches fired and Pioli obviously put his eggs in the Cassel basket.

WHAT about his contract says that? if ANYTHING it is set up so that if cassel doesnt succeed he will be gone after next year. look it up.

now you will say BUT BUT 60 million, well bledsoe got a 100 million dollar contract how long did he stay in NE after that?

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 09:30 AM
If we're using Kerry Collins and a rookie as his comparisons, that's pretty much all that needs to be said. Trade is a loser.

thats a downright ignorant thing to say 6 games in

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 09:32 AM
The only QB he ever whacked was Bledsoe who he didn't draft or resign so what makes you think he'd do that?

His first big move as GM was basically saying here's my franchise guy...Matt Cassel.

he didnt resign bledsoe? didnt they give bledsoe a 100 million dollar contract?


EDIT: yep i checked and you are wrong, they RE-SIGNED bledsoe to a 103 million dollar contract he was there 1 more year.


Pioli had a hand in getting that done and cassel's too, what makes you think that he's here for 4 years no matter what? assumption, thats all. If you look at the #s you would see

HemiEd
10-26-2009, 09:41 AM
(And by the way, when you are a bad team, you have to take risks to win. Not going for it on the 40 would have been stupid. The mistake Haley made was to attempt to kick the FG at end of the half instead of going for it.)

That is the one time he should have gone for it, and he didn't. It was just a bad game all around, horrible.

The defense played well on the first series, then it was all down hill.