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pr_capone
10-25-2009, 11:53 PM
He just had a really bad game. Damn chicken littles.

Trent looked like shit his first year here too.

He got to play behind some damn good players on his offensive line had Priest at RB, Richardson at FB, and both Gonzo and Kennison to throw to.

Trent had barely a better completion percentage but did throw for 1100 more yards than Matt is projected to.

Was gives me hope for Matt is the TD/INT ratio as well as the sack numbers.

Trent, while having a monstrous line and a bevy of receivers to throw to, threw 4 fewer touchdowns and 11 more interceptions than Matt is projected to.

Matt is projected to have better td to int numbers than Trent did despite being on track to be sacked 61 times and having no one to throw to other than the inconsistent (holy shit what a catch in the end zone today though) Dwayne Bowe.

Oh yeah, the guy is mobile too. Matt is projected to have double the yards Trent did at a better average.

Matt's projected stats vs Trent's first year (2001)

*added Len Dawson for ChiefsCountry (Len's 1962 stats are for a 14 season game. I used average times 16 to come up with the stats)

Completions:
Trent - 296
Matt - 272
Len - 216

Attempts:
Trent - 523
Matt - 496
Len - 354

Percentage:
Trent - 56.6
Matt - 54.8
Len - 61

Yards:
Trent - 3787
Matt - 2651
Len - 3153

TDs:
Trent - 17
Matt - 21
Len - 29

Int:
Trent - 24
Matt - 13
Len - 17

Sacks:
Trent - 39
Matt - 61
Len - 19

Rushing Attempts:
Trent - 35
Matt - 72
Len - 43

Rushing Yards:
Trent - 158
Matt - 336
Len - 288

Rushing Average:
Trent - 4.5
Matt - 4.7



ps - it was a huge mistake to let Richardson go

DaneMcCloud
10-25-2009, 11:55 PM
Trent Green was a fraud

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-25-2009, 11:56 PM
Matt Cassel's TD/Int ratio is artificially propped up by multiple garbage time scores, and the fact that he'd rather take a sack than throw the ball downfield.

salame
10-25-2009, 11:56 PM
http://thenastyboys.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/texans_travis_johnson.jpg

WildTurkey
10-25-2009, 11:58 PM
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/mpaul82/qwzsr7.jpg

Short Leash Hootie
10-25-2009, 11:59 PM
I planned on giving him a pass this year regardless...

If the drafturbators want to ignore how terrible this offense is, then so be it...

I'll give the organization another offseason to figure things out and Cassel another season before I start freaking out...

He played terrible, he missed several open passes downfield...he is still playing behind a terrible offensive line that would make any QB feel uneasy dropping back...plain and simple.

The year Brady threw 50 TD's...go watch the replays on those throws...on that season...no one got CLOSE to Brady...he had all day in the pocket...picture what Philip Rivers had today against the Chiefs, multiply it by 2, and that's the kind of time Brady had in 2007.

Count Zarth
10-25-2009, 11:59 PM
Oh yeah, the guy is mobile too. Matt is projected to have double the yards Trent did at a better average.

Well hey, let's trade for this guy:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/2008/fantasy/12/11/start.sit/tyler-thigpen.jpg

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 12:00 AM
That being said, I tabbed out after his 3rd pick and went home...watched the afternoon games on two HD tv's at home in my living room...one was on Red Zone, which is totally badass...6 hours of commercial free football...they flip from game to game and show every single score...and when no one is in the gold zone, they just play the most interesting games...it's not in HD, but it is a badass secondary football program on Sundays...

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 12:01 AM
and if you guys want to see how mobile helps a QB...you should have watched Romo today...he was amazing.

His TD pass to Crayton...avoiding that blitz...that was something only 1 or 2 QB's in the league can do. I hope Cassel can develop into a QB as good as Romo...but I don't think he has the quick release or the deep accuracy to ever be quite as good.

Reaper16
10-26-2009, 12:02 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if Cassel was acquired with the aspiration that he will play as well as Trent Green then the trade never should have been done.

pr_capone
10-26-2009, 12:02 AM
Matt Cassel's TD/Int ratio is artificially propped up by multiple garbage time scores, and the fact that he'd rather take a sack than throw the ball downfield.

Personally, I would rather he take a sack than throw the ball down field on a wing and a prayer and hope it doesn't get intercepted.

Also, it's not his fault his receivers are dropping balls left a right. At some point in time the guy is going to need help or we are going to ruin him.

pr_capone
10-26-2009, 12:03 AM
Well hey, let's trade for this guy:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/2008/fantasy/12/11/start.sit/tyler-thigpen.jpg

LMFAO

That's the only thing you can pick on?

Count Zarth
10-26-2009, 12:05 AM
LMFAO

That's the only thing you can pick on?

At this point I don't give a shit about mobility.

Hit the open fucker.

pr_capone
10-26-2009, 12:05 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if Cassel was acquired with the aspiration that he will play as well as Trent Green then the trade never should have been done.

I'm just using Trent as a benchmark since he was the last decent QB we have had in recent memory.

Reaper16
10-26-2009, 12:06 AM
I'm just using Trent as a benchmark since he was the last decent QB we have had in recent memory.
Decent! Such ambition we have for Matty Ice.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 12:06 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if Cassel was acquired with the aspiration that he will play as well as Trent Green then the trade never should have been done.

I'd take a 27 year old Trent Green for a 2nd round pick 100 times out of 100...

Trent Green could have won a Super Bowl with this team...easily.

Our defense failed us...the fact people lay those failures on his shoulders is amazing to me.

Cassel is never going to be Peyton Manning...he's not going to be a guy who wins games because he's an all-time talent.

But, if you surround him with talent, a la Trent Green, he can win games. He proved that on the Pats last year when he got better as the season progressed.

There are really three or four NFL QB's that are truly elite...if you wouldn't take a 27 year old Trent Green for #34 overall...you're nuts.

Our problem right now isn't Matt Cassel...yeah, he played bad...we know that.

Our #1 problem is the amazing lack of talent we have on this team...and I don't know how we're going to fix that in the next 2 years but we'll fucking see I guess.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 12:10 AM
Decent! Such ambition we have for Matty Ice.

It's so annoying that people throw Trent under the bus...

Was he an all-pro talent? Absolutely not.

Had Rodney Harrison not delivered that cheap shot to him when he was with the Rams...would he have most likely won a Super Bowl that year just like Kurt Warner? I sure think so.

The guy was great when he had talent around him...sure, he had an all-world offensive line that gave him all the time in the world to make throws...and you know what? He made them. He was great.

I love how Tom Brady had the same exact treatment has Trent Green in 2007 and no one seems to notice...

Please...when the Pats were beating everyone by 28+ week in and week out...go watch some of the replays...Tom Brady was the NFL version of Sam Bradford last year...no defensive player came within 5 yards of him on every pass.

He made 2003 Trent Green look like he was facing 2009 Matt Cassel pressure.

Which is why the year Peyton threw for 49 TD's (without running up the scores, mind you) will always be a better season than Brady's FU season that was full of running up the score and 1st and goal from the 1 PA stat padding TD passes...plus, he has the QB rating to prove it.

pr_capone
10-26-2009, 12:12 AM
At this point I don't give a shit about mobility.

Hit the open ****er.

I understand and accept that. At that level they simply have to hit a guy if he is as wide open as Charles was. No excuse.

You have to understand that this guy has taken as many hits in 6 games as some QBs take all season.

If it were not for his mobility, his offensive line would be exposed for even bigger frauds than they already are... Waters included.

He has no help at the TE, RB, or FB position and he is playing with a carousel at WR and an even bigger one at O-Line. How in the hell can he ever get comfortable with that?

ChiefsCountry
10-26-2009, 12:12 AM
I thought Hooter got banned for being a dumbass racist?

sportsman1
10-26-2009, 12:12 AM
Trent Green statistically was great for us, and was a great player. I would hope he would have a solid legacy amongst fans.

Count Zarth
10-26-2009, 12:14 AM
He has no help at the TE, RB, or FB position and he is playing with a carousel at WR and an even bigger one at O-Line. How in the hell can he ever get comfortable with that?

He's paid to.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 12:15 AM
we're just so flawed offensively we have no shot...

Our best shot today was the Herm R2P2...but we couldn't even do that because before you knew it, it was 14-0...so it would appear as if we were waiving the white flag...

Any time we fall down by 14...we're going to look even worse than we are...because in no way is this offense built to watch Cassel throw 35 passes that need to be 10+ yards...he doesn't have the time, and he surely doesn't have the confidence in our pass protection...

our chance to win today was to pound the rock, and at no point in this game was that even an option, because we were down right away...

At no point in my viewing experience was I excited to be watching the game...which makes me sad to be a fan.

ChiefsCountry
10-26-2009, 12:17 AM
I liked Trent Green, great guy - tough SOB down to earth. Loved the guy to death while he was a Chief. But he wasn't a franchise QB. He just wasn't. He put up great fantasy numbers but we couldn't win, especially the big one. I don't want another Trent Green, I want antother Len Dawson. Thats the guy we need to be comparing Cassel to.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 12:22 AM
I liked Trent Green, great guy - tough SOB down to earth. Loved the guy to death while he was a Chief. But he wasn't a franchise QB. He just wasn't. He put up great fantasy numbers but we couldn't win, especially the big one. I don't want another Trent Green, I want antother Len Dawson. Thats the guy we need to be comparing Cassel to.

Trent Green wasn't a winner? What does that even mean?

What could he have done differently in KC to be a winner? I'm very curious.

The teams were VERY flawed, and everyone knows it was the defense.

His one playoff game with the Chiefs...

Did he drop that perfect pass to Morton?

Did he miss that FG?

Did he fumble that long run?

What exactly did Trent Green do that made you think he was incapable of winning the big game?

Yes, I agree...Trent Green didn't have all-pro talent. He did capably, very capably, run an all-pro offense and achieved great success.

It's not his fault that Vermeil and Peterson ignored the defense.

I just can't get over this bullshit Trent Green bashing. Labeling him as a QB that couldn't win the big one is fucking retarded, considering his flawed teams never gave him the chance to be in that situation.

The Chiefs couldn't give him that chance in the playoffs in 2003...

pr_capone
10-26-2009, 12:27 AM
He's paid to.

and LJ isnt?

ChiefsCountry
10-26-2009, 12:32 AM
His winning percentage in Kansas City was .544 percent. He was basically an 8-8 QB for us. He was 0-2 in the playoffs. At his best he was barely a top 10 QB in the NFL, that isn't going to cut it to a Super Bowl - which should be our damn goal if not we are a ****ed up fanbase.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeTr00.htm

Count Zarth
10-26-2009, 12:36 AM
and LJ isnt?

This isn't a thread about LJ.

pr_capone
10-26-2009, 12:42 AM
I don't want another Trent Green, I want antother Len Dawson. Thats the guy we need to be comparing Cassel to.

see original post

I added Len Dawson to the comparison

pr_capone
10-26-2009, 12:42 AM
This isn't a thread about LJ.

Hypocrite.

Count Zarth
10-26-2009, 12:44 AM
Hypocrite.

You don't even know what I think...so shut the fuck up.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 01:00 AM
His winning percentage in Kansas City was .544 percent. He was basically an 8-8 QB for us. He was 0-2 in the playoffs. At his best he was barely a top 10 QB in the NFL, that isn't going to cut it to a Super Bowl - which should be our damn goal if not we are a ****ed up fanbase.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeTr00.htm

I'm talking about performance...

What did Trent Green do, as QB of the Chiefs, that made you label him as a "non-winner"?

This team never gave him a chance to be "clutch"...

KCWolfman
10-26-2009, 03:20 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if Cassel was acquired with the aspiration that he will play as well as Trent Green then the trade never should have been done.

I would like to see any QB with less mobility than Michael Vick do well under that wet paper sack we call an OLine.

I honestly thought it could not be worse than with Sampson and Black defending their dinner plates from outsiders better than the QB, I was wrong.

KCWolfman
10-26-2009, 03:27 AM
I'm just using Trent as a benchmark since he was the last decent QB we have had in recent memory.

I honestly think Green was the result of the best OLine in football in probably a decade. Now position by position, I think there are better players than Wiegmann, Shields, Roaf, and Waters, but overall there was none better in the nfl during their tenure on Arrowhead field.

Green was adequate and thought well behind the front four, but he was a product of his unheralded OLine as many QBs truly are.

jidar
10-26-2009, 07:38 AM
Cassell has been pretty bad, and frankly I think he makes it even harder on his O-Line than it needs to be because he holds the ball too long and has happy feet. Until this week he hasn't shown a willingness to go downfield... and after how terrible those passes were I guess we know why.

jidar
10-26-2009, 07:41 AM
I honestly think Green was the result of the best OLine in football in probably a decade. Now position by position, I think there are better players than Wiegmann, Shields, Roaf, and Waters, but overall there was none better in the nfl during their tenure on Arrowhead field.

Green was adequate and thought well behind the front four, but he was a product of his unheralded OLine as many QBs truly are.

Well... maybe. But Green helped them out by his play. He had a quick release, could read a defense well, and was very accurate.

Chiefnj2
10-26-2009, 07:43 AM
His winning percentage in Kansas City was .544 percent. He was basically an 8-8 QB for us. He was 0-2 in the playoffs. At his best he was barely a top 10 QB in the NFL, that isn't going to cut it to a Super Bowl - which should be our damn goal if not we are a ****ed up fanbase.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeTr00.htm

Blaming Green for being 0-2 in the playoffs is ridiculously stupid.

Brock
10-26-2009, 07:47 AM
Blaming Green for being 0-2 in the playoffs is ridiculously stupid.

Yep, that's crazy.

FringeNC
10-26-2009, 07:48 AM
Look, the two most important stats for QBs are yards per attempt, and int %. Cassel's yards per attempt is historically bad, but it's hard to put too much blame on him when our yards per run is beyond bad also. Both numbers are symptomatic of a terrible offensive line. I don't blame Cassel, but to say that our passing game has been anything other than a total joke is sticking your head in the sand. How much of the problem of it is Cassel -- I think it's way to early to tell.

jidar
10-26-2009, 07:51 AM
His winning percentage in Kansas City was .544 percent. He was basically an 8-8 QB for us. He was 0-2 in the playoffs. At his best he was barely a top 10 QB in the NFL, that isn't going to cut it to a Super Bowl - which should be our damn goal if not we are a ****ed up fanbase.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeTr00.htm

Uh.. by definition going to the pro-bowl is more than "barely top 10"

I really don't know what more Trent could have done to improve our game either. Herm ruined the offense, but we had arguably the best offense in the NFL under Vermeil and that was with Trent starting.

What more do you want?

Dirk360
10-26-2009, 08:33 AM
It's so annoying that people throw Trent under the bus...

Was he an all-pro talent? Absolutely not.

Had Rodney Harrison not delivered that cheap shot to him when he was with the Rams...would he have most likely won a Super Bowl that year just like Kurt Warner? I sure think so.

The guy was great when he had talent around him...sure, he had an all-world offensive line that gave him all the time in the world to make throws...and you know what? He made them. He was great.

I love how Tom Brady had the same exact treatment has Trent Green in 2007 and no one seems to notice...

Please...when the Pats were beating everyone by 28+ week in and week out...go watch some of the replays...Tom Brady was the NFL version of Sam Bradford last year...no defensive player came within 5 yards of him on every pass.

He made 2003 Trent Green look like he was facing 2009 Matt Cassel pressure.

Which is why the year Peyton threw for 49 TD's (without running up the scores, mind you) will always be a better season than Brady's FU season that was full of running up the score and 1st and goal from the 1 PA stat padding TD passes...plus, he has the QB rating to prove it.

so i take it you dont think tom brady is a good qb?

jidar
10-26-2009, 10:17 AM
I liked Trent Green, great guy - tough SOB down to earth. Loved the guy to death while he was a Chief. But he wasn't a franchise QB. He just wasn't. He put up great fantasy numbers but we couldn't win, especially the big one. I don't want another Trent Green, I want antother Len Dawson. Thats the guy we need to be comparing Cassel to.

I wasn't aware Len Dawson played defense when he was with the Chiefs.

Frankie
10-26-2009, 12:05 PM
Matt Cassel's TD/Int ratio is artificially propped up by multiple garbage time scores, and the fact that he'd rather take a sack than throw the ball downfield.

Sorry Hamas, this is a dumb argument. I'm pretty sure Trent's stats in his first year here INCLUDED SOME GARBAGE TIME TDs AS WELL.

Frankie
10-26-2009, 12:06 PM
Trent Green was a fraud

:rolleyes:

Raised On Riots
10-26-2009, 01:44 PM
Fuck Trent Green and fuck Dick Vermeil. I curse the day I found 1/2 of you dumb fucks on this board.

Pioli Zombie
10-26-2009, 02:06 PM
Fuck Trent Green and fuck Dick Vermeil. I curse the day I found 1/2 of you dumb fucks on this board.

What about rue? Do you rue the day too?
Posted via Mobile Device

Raised On Riots
10-26-2009, 02:14 PM
What about rue? Do you rue the day too?
Posted via Mobile Device

No, but Todd Haley does I'm sure.

TRR
10-26-2009, 02:28 PM
Trent Green is arguably the best QB KC has ever had. If it weren't for a knee injury with the Rams and a HORRID KC defense, Green could arguably have been a two time Super Bowl winner.

I could only hope that Cassel gets to be on par with Trent Green. Green in his prime with KC was every bit good enough to lead a team to a Super Bowl. Unfortunately as good as his offense was, the defense was just as bad if not worse.

For those that say Green was a product of his O Line....then so was Priest Holmes. Holmes shouldn't get half the respect that he does if all it was was the O Line.

The bottom line is that it takes time to develop a QB, and it takes a group effort on O to make a QB successful. The O Line HAS to be better, the RB's need to better, the WR's have to be better, and Matt Cassel needs to better. That being said, you are blind if you don't think Cassel has what it takes to be a potential stud for the next 8+ years in KC.
Posted via Mobile Device

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 02:30 PM
The bottom line is that it takes time to develop a QB, and it takes a group effort on O to make a QB successful. The O Line HAS to be better, the RB's need to better, the WR's have to be better, and Matt Cassel needs to better. That being said, you are blind if you don't think Cassel has what it takes to be a potential stud for the next 8+ years in KC.
Posted via Mobile Device

REP

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 02:33 PM
Fuck Trent Green and fuck Dick Vermeil. I curse the day I found 1/2 of you dumb fucks on this board.

ROFL you wouldnt know the first thing about DV or TGreen, remember you werent even a fan then

ChiefsCountry
10-26-2009, 02:36 PM
Trent Green is arguably the best QB KC has ever had.


Bullshit. Len Dawson and Montana kick Green's ass any day.

Raised On Riots
10-26-2009, 02:49 PM
ROFL you wouldnt know the first thing about DV or TGreen, remember you werent even a fan then

Yep, there's no such thing as records, endless testimony from fans, and film from Vermeil's time in KC.

Oh wait...



ROFLOh look; I'm being a moron just like SAUTO!

ROFLROFLThere it is again! Two times!

ROFLROFLROFLGoing for three! Mission accomplished! Yay SAUTO!

Micjones
10-26-2009, 02:50 PM
Bullshit. Len Dawson and Montana kick Green's ass any day.

Dawson was a better QB.
Montana though? That's a joke...

ChiefsCountry
10-26-2009, 02:53 PM
Montana though? That's a joke...

When Montana was healthy we won, that whole team was different. He raised their level of play, that 1993 team was the best Chiefs team since the early 70's by far.

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 02:55 PM
Trent Green is arguably the best QB KC has ever had. If it weren't for a knee injury with the Rams and a HORRID KC defense, Green could arguably have been a two time Super Bowl winner.

This is laughable. Seriously. "If, if, IF!". What a joke.

I could only hope that Cassel gets to be on par with Trent Green. Green in his prime with KC was every bit good enough to lead a team to a Super Bowl. Unfortunately as good as his offense was, the defense was just as bad if not worse.

Great. Another guy who needs Hall of Fame talent on the offensive line to be productive and a Hall of Fame tight end and the best running back in football to have huge numbers.

JFC.

How about this, instead? I guy who puts the team on his back for a win. A guy who drives his team down the field in the 4th quarter, runs out the clock with a victory. TRUE Franchise Quarterback instead of a fucking game manager.

JFC, I swear that half of you motherfuckers have never watched an NFL game in which KC isn't a participant.

For those that say Green was a product of his O Line....then so was Priest Holmes. Holmes shouldn't get half the respect that he does if all it was was the O Line.

Bullshit. Priest Holmes was a 1,000 yard rusher with the Ravens. He had plenty of respect.

People around the league didn't trust his body to hold up, which most certainly was an issue.

The bottom line is that it takes time to develop a QB

Huh?

Cassel's 27 years old. How long before he's "developed"? 2 years? 3 years? 4 years?

and it takes a group effort on O to make a QB successful. The O Line HAS to be better, the RB's need to better, the WR's have to be better, and Matt Cassel needs to better.

The only way this offensive line improves is with three to four different players. The only way the running backs and wide receivers improve is with different players.

These assholes are maxed out. You're not going to "get more" from Niswanger, Goof, O'Callaghan or Waters. You're not going to "make" Bobby Wade or Mark Bradley anything more than what they are now. LJ is DONE. Savage is a joke. Charles is a special teamer and occasional third down back.

This team needs more talent. Period.

That being said, you are blind if you don't think Cassel has what it takes to be a potential stud for the next 8+ years in KC.
Posted via Mobile Device

"Potential stud"? Huh? For 8+ years?

So you're telling us that Matt Cassel has the "potential" to be a stud? Based on what, exactly?

And for 8+ years? The guy's going to play until he's at least 35 years old and be a "stud" that entire time?

Crack is bad.

Micjones
10-26-2009, 02:59 PM
that whole team was different. that 1993 team was the best Chiefs team since the early 70's by far.

Agreed.

Now what were you saying about Montana?

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 03:02 PM
Yep, there's no such thing as records, endless testimony from fans, and film from Vermeil's time in KC.

Oh wait...



ROFLOh look; I'm being a moron just like SAUTO!

ROFLROFLThere it is again! Two times!

ROFLROFLROFLGoing for three! Mission accomplished! Yay SAUTO!

you are a moron. you didnt watch the games. you can listen to people who bitch about it now. but you cant say for yourself.

ChiefsCountry
10-26-2009, 03:06 PM
Agreed.

Now what were you saying about Montana?

With Montana leading it was Super Bowl quality, when Dave Krieg was it was Wildcard material.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 03:06 PM
With Montana leading it was Super Bowl quality, when Dave Krieg was it was Wildcard material.

i agree here CC.

Micjones
10-26-2009, 03:14 PM
With Montana leading it was Super Bowl quality, when Dave Krieg was it was Wildcard material.

Montana had a MUCH better football team than Green did, but that's not the argument. Green was the better QB for the Chiefs.

Raised On Riots
10-26-2009, 03:19 PM
Montana had a MUCH better football team than Green did, but that's not the argument. Green was the better QB for the Chiefs.

Why? Because he was in KC longer? I fail to see your logic.

ChiefsCountry
10-26-2009, 03:30 PM
Green put up better stats but he wasn't the better QB. Montana took a 10-6 average team basically to AFC Championship Game. If hadn't gotten hurt during the season, more than likely we have homefield advantage and don't have to go to freaking Buffalo for that game.

Just look at these numbers when Montana started and then Krieg:
Montana 8-3 21.8 per game offensive/17.3 per game
Krieg 3-2 17.6 per game offensive/20 per game defense (those numbers are sort of out of whack bc of the 30-0 Houston game)
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/1993.htm

The Chiefs played better as a whole when Montana was the QB. Thats the real bottom line, can a QB raise his team's play around him.

Now Montana was a short term move for the Chiefs, similar to what Minnesota is doing this year very similar teams actually. Just imagine how sick our defense would have been with Dana Stubblefield with DT, Neil, Big Dan, Carter, etc. That was who San Fran took with that pick but that is for a different thread.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 03:39 PM
so i take it you dont think tom brady is a good qb?

No, but I think that if BB wanted Trent Green to throw for 40+ TD passes for the 2007 New England Patriots, he easily could have and the team could have been 14-2, 15-1 or even 16-0.

Seriously...I know Tom Brady is a big name and a great QB...but I really want some people to watch some of those 2007 games and just pay attention to the amount of time Tom Brady had to throw the ball...it was like a 7 on 7 drill with Tom wearing a red jersey...no one friggin' touched the guy...until the Super Bowl...and we all saw what happened once he experienced some pressure (18-1)

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 03:42 PM
Bullshit. Len Dawson and Montana kick Green's ass any day.

Joe Montana played two years in KC and sure, he won some playoff games...but I guess we forget he also had the luxury of a great, great defense.

And shut the fuck up about Len Dawson...sorry guy, but I highly doubt you ever watched Len Dawson field a single snap.

If you're under 30, you shouldn't be talking about how badass Len Dawson is...because you don't know. That's why I let Milkman have all of his opinions because that dude has literally seen it all.

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 03:43 PM
Cassell has been pretty bad, and frankly I think he makes it even harder on his O-Line than it needs to be because he holds the ball too long and has happy feet. Until this week he hasn't shown a willingness to go downfield... and after how terrible those passes were I guess we know why.

No he doesn't.

The reason he holds on to the ball so long, as people claim, is that on half of the plays the protection breaks down immediately and flushes him out of the pocket. Once your QB starts moving, it takes away half of your reads and forces your receivers to adjust their routes.

Watch how many times a game he has a defender in his face within 3 seconds. It's embarrassing. He doesn't hold onto the ball too long. Yesterday, I became concerned about his accuracy issues, but this BS claim that he's held on to the ball too long in KC has got to stop. The only reason people say it is because he did it in New England. How can anyone say he holds onto the ball too long when on over half of the snaps, the pressure is in his face within 3 seconds?

ChiefsCountry
10-26-2009, 03:45 PM
And shut the **** up about Len Dawson...sorry guy, but I highly doubt you ever watched Len Dawson field a single snap.

If you're under 30, you shouldn't be talking about how badass Len Dawson is...because you don't know. That's why I let Milkman have all of his opinions because that dude has literally seen it all.

Its caleld history you dumb racist POS.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 03:46 PM
No he doesn't.

The reason he holds on to the ball so long, as people claim, is that on half of the plays the protection breaks down immediately and flushes him out of the pocket. Once your QB starts moving, it takes away half of your reads and forces your receivers to adjust their routes.

Watch how many times a game he has a defender in his face within 3 seconds. It's embarrassing. He doesn't hold onto the ball too long. Yesterday, I became concerned about his accuracy issues, but this BS claim that he's held on to the ball too long in KC has got to stop. The only reason people say it is because he did it in New England. How can anyone say he holds onto the ball too long when on over half of the snaps, the pressure is in his face within 3 seconds?

makes no sense to me, maybe he should throw the ball in 2, well maybe thats some of the reason he doesnt go downfield much. he doesnt have time or passing lanes to see downfield.

ChiefsCountry
10-26-2009, 03:47 PM
That great, great defense of 1993 was ranked 14 out of 28 teams.

ChiefsCountry
10-26-2009, 03:48 PM
makes no sense to me, maybe he should throw the ball in 2, well maybe thats some of the reason he doesnt go downfield much. he doesnt have time or passing lanes to see downfield.

He has no confidence in throwing downfield, the lack of arm strength aside that is biggest problem. The same for him in New England.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 03:50 PM
He has no confidence in throwing downfield, the lack of arm strength aside that is biggest problem. The same for him in New England.

last year, if you watched, he was much better as the year wound down. now he just doesnt have time or lanes to see it if they ARE open IMO.

Can you seriously argue that he could take a reasonable 7 step drop without a defender in his face when that last foot hits 90% of the time?

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 03:50 PM
He has no confidence in throwing downfield, the lack of arm strength aside that is biggest problem. The same for him in New England.

I never agreed with that, but I think I saw some of that yesterday. He throws very well on his intermediate routes, when he has time (except yesterday). The deeper ball is one he seems to loft a bit.

What's shitty is that this is something that I think he could correct with some work. But the dumbasses at One Arrowhead decided he doesn't need a QBs coach. Fuck me.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 03:51 PM
you morons crack me up...

Lets just reference the 2003 playoff game against the Colts...

In that game, I remember three pivotal plays that prevented the Chiefs from winning on offense.

A 3rd and 5 WIDE OPEN, PERFECT PASS drop in the red zone by Johnnie Morton right before halftime that prevented a potential tie-game touchdown going into half...

and then, on 4th and 5...right before half, Morton Andersen misses a 30 yard field goal on that same drive right before half...

and then, on the 1st or 2nd drive in the 2nd half...reliable Priest breaks off a 60 yard run and caps it off with a lost fumble.

Then we lose 38-31, literally stop the Colts offense ZERO times...

and since we lost, TRENT GREEN IS A LOSER QB AND COULD NEVER WIN THE BIG ONE!

Hahahahahaha!

What the fuck could he have done that game to be a winner? He didn't even get the chance to get the ball back with a SECOND to try and tie the game once it was 38-31...the Colts picked up a first down and then sat on the ball.

Here's a FACT about the Chiefs and Trent Green:

For three years (2003, 2004, 2005), the Chiefs with Trent Green had an offense that was capable of winning the Super Bowl, and an offense that could beat any team on any given day, an offense that could carry one of the worst defenses ever assembled.

When someone explains to me how Trent Green had something to do with our lack of success during his tenure, I'll shut up.

The people like Dane who call the Green and Roaf trade bad trades because we didn't win a playoff game or the Super Bowl...they are nuts. Insane. At least we had a playoff caliber team...and in 2003 and 2005, we really had a Super Bowl caliber team that was a few bounces away from potentially making some noise. Remember 2005 when the Steelers snuck into the playoffs and won the Super Bowl? Exactly. We had a team that year that could potentially beat anyone...we win that Dallas game that we should have won, and would have won 19 times out of 20, we were in...

Either way...6 years of pro bowl caliber QB play for a middle 1st round pick wasn't a bad trade...shit, we drafted DJ with the 15th overall and have gotten 4 years of inconsistent sucking...

The thing the drafturbators don't fucking get is...even a 1st round pick is a coin flip...for every NFL team.

The best round in the draft is literally a coin flip...the 2nd round is like getting heads two times out of three...3rd round getting heads three times out of four...

Sure, the best teams are great at these coin flips...

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 03:53 PM
I never agreed with that, but I think I saw some of that yesterday. He throws very well on his intermediate routes, when he has time (except yesterday). The deeper ball is one he seems to loft a bit.

What's shitty is that this is something that I think he could correct with some work. But the dumbasses at One Arrowhead decided he doesn't need a QBs coach. Fuck me.

most guys throw a lofty deep ball, it's just getting the timing down IMO, but when the line is so bad how do you get consistent timing down?

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 03:53 PM
Its caleld history you dumb racist POS.

Sorry dude...I know you leach off of hamas and dane etc...but I don't buy that history bullshit.

I know how you guys like to leach your opinions and then spout off about how you know this and you know that...and how Len Dawson was a great, tremendous awesome QB...

You won't see me saying shit about Len Dawson, or Wilt Chamberlain, or Joe DiMaggio, etc...

I formulate my own opinions with my own eyes...I don't leach on to the ChiefsPlanet cool clique to try and gain approval.

You called Trent Green..."not a winner"...

and you can't back it up because that's an insane claim that has zero warrant.

pr_capone
10-26-2009, 03:54 PM
Great. Another guy who needs Hall of Fame talent on the offensive line to be productive and a Hall of Fame tight end and the best running back in football to have huge numbers.

Let's take a look at sack numbers for the Super Bowl Winning QB's the past 10 years. Keep in mind that Matt is on pace for 61 sacks.

09-10 - Matt Cassel - 23 Sacks - 27 rushes for 126 yards (through 6 games)
08-09 - Ben Roethlisberger - 46 Sacks - 34 rushes for 101 yards
07-08 - Eli Manning - 27 Sacks - 29 rushes for 69 yards
06-07 - Peyton Manning - 14 Sacks - 23 rushes for 36 yards
05-06 - Ben Roethlisberger - 23 Sacks - 31 rushes for 69 yards
04-05 - Tom Brady - 26 Sacks - 43 rushes for 28 yards
03-04 - Tom Brady - 32 Sacks - 42 rushes for 63 yards
02-03 - Brad Johnson - 21 Sacks - 13 rushes for 30 yards
01-02 - Tom Brady - 41 Sacks - 36 rushes for 43 yards
00-01 - Trent Dilfer - 23 Sacks - 20 rushes for 75 yards
99-00 - Kurt Warner - 29 Sacks - 23 rushes for 92 yards

We don't need HOF talent to make Cassel a legit QB. We need SOME talent to give the guy time to set up his throws.

The guy has already been sacked nearly as many times as these SB winners did in their entire season. Through 6 games he has rushed for more yards than any of the SB winners did the entire season.

If not for Cassel's mobility, the offensive line would have let him get sacked a ton more times. With the exception of Ben, we would likely have gotten each QB listed above killed behind our current O-Line.

We need a minimum of 3 players on the offensive line (C, RG, RT) before we can even begin to complain about Cassel and deriding the guy for being unable to put the team on his shoulders.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 03:54 PM
How about this Hootie:

Say we beat the Colts. Do you really think we beat NE on the road the next week, in the year that they had their best team overall?

I didn't realize that winning in the divisional round=winning the big one. Maybe that's why we're in the position we're in.

ChiefsCountry
10-26-2009, 03:56 PM
last year, if you watched, he was much better as the year wound down. now he just doesnt have time or lanes to see it if they ARE open IMO.

Can you seriously argue that he could take a reasonable 7 step drop without a defender in his face when that last foot hits 90% of the time?

They also moved him to Shotgun full time as well. When Cassel has played his best for the Chiefs its when he has just let it go and forced the issue. Dallas game late, the Oakland game late. I think he might be actually be a better fit in a WCO system.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 03:57 PM
Sorry dude...I know you leach off of hamas and dane etc...but I don't buy that history bullshit.

I know how you guys like to leach your opinions and then spout off about how you know this and you know that...and how Len Dawson was a great, tremendous awesome QB...

You won't see me saying shit about Len Dawson, or Wilt Chamberlain, or Joe DiMaggio, etc...

I formulate my own opinions with my own eyes...I don't leach on to the ChiefsPlanet cool clique to try and gain approval.

You called Trent Green..."not a winner"...

and you can't back it up because that's an insane claim that has zero warrant.

You openly admitted last week that you plagiarized opinions on here and used them on other forums (such as your support for Gholston as a prospect) and yet you're formulating your own opinions?

Moreover, CC was here long before I was. He's not leaching off me in the least. He has his own viewpoints and his own insights into the franchise, as well as inner knowledge that far surpasses my own, or nearly anyone else on here.

You calling him a leech, given your own aforementioned behavior, is yet another in a long line of mind bogglingly stupid assertions that pass as the status quo for you.

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 03:58 PM
most guys throw a lofty deep ball, it's just getting the timing down IMO, but when the line is so bad how do you get consistent timing down?

I just meant that when you watch a guy like Carson Palmer throw a deep ball, it falls on a rope.

When Cassel throws a deep ball, you can tell he's trying to ease it into the right spot.

I agree with the assessment that he doesn't have confidence in his deep ball. That doesn't mean it can't improve. Tom Brady threw a lousy deep ball early in his career. He worked his ass off with a QBs coach to work on his technique and it paid huge dividends.

ChiefsCountry
10-26-2009, 04:01 PM
Sorry dude...I know you leach off of hamas and dane etc...but I don't buy that history bullshit.

I know how you guys like to leach your opinions and then spout off about how you know this and you know that...and how Len Dawson was a great, tremendous awesome QB...

You won't see me saying shit about Len Dawson, or Wilt Chamberlain, or Joe DiMaggio, etc...

I formulate my own opinions with my own eyes...I don't leach on to the ChiefsPlanet cool clique to try and gain approval.

You called Trent Green..."not a winner"...

and you can't back it up because that's an insane claim that has zero warrant.

Dude I knew about Len Dawson way before I every signed up here. My dad and grandpa told me all about him and how great he was. History proves he is a stud and best QB in Chiefs history by far. I really don't give a damn about Dane or Hamas or what anybody has to think.

I also proved that Trent Green was an 8-8 QB for the Chiefs. That is average, he put up great fantasy stats and was a system QB but he wasn't outstanding. He didn't make the Chiefs a Super Bowl contender, the 2003 team acutally overachieved. That should have been a 11-5 team. Like I said before I like Trent Green, he was my favorite Chief since DT died. Great guy, tough SOB but he wasn't the best Chiefs QB, he wasn't as even good as Montana was in his two seasons here.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:02 PM
How about this Hootie:

Say we beat the Colts. Do you really think we beat NE on the road the next week, in the year that they had their best team overall?

I didn't realize that winning in the divisional round=winning the big one. Maybe that's why we're in the position we're in.

Do I? No, no I don't...

However, I think we were better equipped to beat the Patriots than the Colts.

But this is beside the point...

The point was...Trent Green was never in position with this team to "not be a winner"...

For three straight years Trent Green led an offense that was one of the all-time great offenses in NFL history.

I referenced the one playoff game where Trent Green was still in his prime and literally had nothing to do with that loss...all he did was play an exceptional football game.

And we can call him 0-2 with the Chiefs, technically he was, but I'm pretty sure a 28 year old Joe Montana would have lost to the Colts with Dungy's ball fondler coaching on our sideline. That game was over before it started.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:05 PM
I also proved that Trent Green was an 8-8 QB for the Chiefs. That is average, he put up great fantasy stats and was a system QB but he wasn't outstanding. He didn't make the Chiefs a Super Bowl contender, the 2003 team acutally overachieved. That should have been a 11-5 team. Like I said before I like Trent Green, he was my favorite Chief since DT died. Great guy, tough SOB but he wasn't the best Chiefs QB, he wasn't as even good as Montana was in his two seasons here.

You're not getting the point...

The Chiefs were an 8-8 team with Trent Green at QB...sure.

What does that have to do with Trent Green...the guy who led the #1 offense for three years in a row?

You don't think that, perhaps, the defense had anything to do with that? Was Trent Green calling the defensive plays and signing the defensive players?

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:06 PM
it's funny that we got 80 straight starts out of Trent Green...plus another scattered season and a 4th round pick and people like Hamas call him a "bust"...

Two pro bowl years...but he's a "bust"...

Man...I'd hate to be a 1st round pick for the Chiefs with our fans...

D Bowe better develop and make 10 pro bowls and be an all-pro at least 8 times and lead us to 4 Super Bowls or he'll be a god damn bust!

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 04:07 PM
it's funny that we got 80 straight starts out of Trent Green...plus another scattered season and a 4th round pick and people like Hamas call him a "bust"...

Two pro bowl years...but he's a "bust"...

Man...I'd hate to be a 1st round pick for the Chiefs with our fans...

D Bowe better develop and make 10 pro bowls and be an all-pro at least 8 times and lead us to 4 Super Bowls or he'll be a god damn bust!

Please point me to one post where I ever called Trent Green a "bust" or kindly shut the fuck up, you lying cocksucker.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:09 PM
Please point me to one post where I ever called Trent Green a "bust" or kindly shut the **** up, you lying one who sucks the penis.

Maybe it was Dane...I kind of lump you guys all together.

He also called the Willie Roaf trade a terrible trade.

You have to admit you guys have LOFTY expectations for draft picks. You were crying about 7th round picks last year...like someone just stabbed your pregnant wife in the stomach.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:11 PM
and I'm still waiting for CC to explain to me how Trent Green wasn't a winner during his tenure in KC...

Had the Chiefs ever put him in position to be a winner, he may or may not have been able to do it...but the fact of the matter is, the defense was so poorly put together and coached that Trent Green never had a chance...even though he was the lead act on the #1 offense in the NFL for three straight years.

Says a lot about that defense...the one time he had his shot in 2003 he played a FLAWLESS playoff game...not a single punt, not a single fumble, not a single INT.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 04:14 PM
Maybe it was Dane...I kind of lump you guys all together.

He also called the Willie Roaf trade a terrible trade.

You have to admit you guys have LOFTY expectations for draft picks. You were crying about 7th round picks last year...like someone just stabbed your pregnant wife in the stomach.

Oh, we expect 1st rounders to produce for a team for 7-10 years at a high level. That is LOFTY.

And since Hootie voiced his support for Damon Huard, he also expressed his support for the Holocaust since Huard played for the Frankfurt Galaxy and Hootie liked Huard.

Let's just keep inventing narratives.

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 04:14 PM
Maybe it was Dane...I kind of lump you guys all together.

He also called the Willie Roaf trade a terrible trade.

You have to admit you guys have LOFTY expectations for draft picks. You were crying about 7th round picks last year...like someone just stabbed your pregnant wife in the stomach.

You know, Hootie. You're a fucking idiot. It must HURT to be that fucking dumb.

You seemed like a decent guy the first few weeks in the game day chat, then the racist shit occurred, not once but twice.

Then, you "lump" several members posts together. WTF?

Trent Green was an average QB. Period. He was a system guy that was weak and feeble behind nothing less than a Hall Fame filled offensive line. It happened to him in St. Louis and it happened to him in Kansas City.

IF Dick Vermeil wouldn't have been on such a power hungry, ego trip the Chiefs would still have their QB today: Drew Brees.

Instead, Vermeil wanted to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was HE, not Mike Martz, who brought the offense to the '99 squad.

I'd take Drew Brees ANY FUCKING DAY OF THE WEEK over TrInt Green.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:16 PM
so you're saying the Chiefs would have taken Brees #12 overall...but since they didn't, he fell to the 2nd round?

How do you know we would have taken Brees? That seems like a pretty "out there" assumption.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 04:17 PM
so you're saying the Chiefs would have taken Brees #12 overall...but since they didn't, he fell to the 2nd round?

How do you know we would have taken Brees? That seems like a pretty "out there" assumption.

Published accounts of their draft board.

Stop arguing about things you have no fucking idea about.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:19 PM
Also...it took Drew Brees three years to figure his shit out...the Chargers took Eli Manning #1 overall, and were giving up on Brees...

How do you know he would have amounted to shit in KC?

"Woulda, shoulda, coulda!"

By the way Dane...

In 2000...the ONLY YEAR Trent Green got any time with the "GREATEST SHOW ON TURF"...16 TD's and 5 INT's...that same year Warner started 11 games and had 21 TD's and 18 INT's and folks in St. Louis felt strongly enough about Trent Green that there was a QB controversy that season...

So I don't get your St. Louis Rams argument...but whatever.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:22 PM
Published accounts of their draft board.

Stop arguing about things you have no ****ing idea about.

Published accounts, huh?

Well either way...we would have taken him 12th, yet he fell to 33rd...

Whatever.

Drew Brees was so good in San Diego that they took Eli Manning and then settled for Philip Rivers. Who's to say he wouldn't have totally shit the bed in KC? Are we really arguing about Drew Brees in Kansas City right now? 8 years after the fact...

A #12 overall netted us...

80 straight starts, a two-time pro bowler, three straight 4000 yard seasons, 4 straight seasons with a QB rating over 90...

AND TO TOP IT ALL OFF...

a 4th round pick when he's all washed up.

MAN, WHAT A HORRIBLE USE OF A DRAFT PICK!

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:23 PM
All Hamas does is 2nd guess...

Hey Hamas...have you 2nd guessed your decision to take Gholston for a team that is currently starting Henne at QB? A team that is one Matt Ryan away from being a perennial Super Bowl contender?

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 04:24 PM
so you're saying the Chiefs would have taken Brees #12 overall...but since they didn't, he fell to the 2nd round?

How do you know we would have taken Brees? That seems like a pretty "out there" assumption.

Vermeil and Saunders liked Brees quite a bit and considered them with their first pick. He was on their draft board at #12.

Secondly, Brees fell to the first pick of the second round, #32 overall (there were only 31 teams in the league at that point).

I'd say that he certainly justified being taken at #12 overall, don't you?

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:24 PM
I'll be honest about Matt Cassel though...

He did pull his best Mark Sanchez impression on Sunday...he was terrible. He was so bad I tabbed out after his 3rd pick and went home...

Stafford, Sanchez and Cassel...oh my.

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 04:25 PM
I'll be honest about Matt Cassel though...

He did pull his best Mark Sanchez impression on Sunday...he was terrible. He was so bad I tabbed out after his 3rd pick and went home...

Stafford, Sanchez and Cassel...oh my.

Well, let's see if he recovers like Sanchez did on Sunday...

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:28 PM
Vermeil and Saunders liked Brees quite a bit and considered them with their first pick. He was on their draft board at #12.

Secondly, Brees fell to the first pick of the second round, #32 overall (there were only 31 teams in the league at that point).

I'd say that he certainly justified being taken at #12 overall, don't you?

Sure, I agree.

If the Falcons could go back and get a do over, I'm sure they would have let the Chargers take Vick at #1, kept their #5, taken LT, and then waited for Brees at #36!

Yes, 8 years after the fact, I certainly wish Drew Brees was our QB...

I don't, however, know how that would have changed the fact we still have one of the worst teams I've ever seen.

This is part of a giant snowball delivered by yours truly, Carl Peterson...and it's going to take another year or two before we can't start judging anything Pioli does if you ask me...

I came in with the intentions of giving everyone on the Chiefs (Cassel/Haley/Pioli) a pass for this year, because we all knew it was going to be bad.

It's just funny to see how everyone is reacting...you guys just love negativity...even when we were pretending to be good (2005/2006)...all mecca would do is bombard this board with constant negativity.

It's insane.

Pablo
10-26-2009, 04:28 PM
Vermeil and Saunders liked Brees quite a bit and considered them with their first pick. He was on their draft board at #12.

Secondly, Brees fell to the first pick of the second round, #32 overall (there were only 31 teams in the league at that point).

I'd say that he certainly justified being taken at #12 overall, don't you?Sure, if you look at it now he certainly does. But the same knocks you'd have for a guy like Colt McCoy or Chase Daniel applied to Brees back then. He's not all that tall and he played in a spread offense at Purdue.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:29 PM
Well, let's see if he recovers like Sanchez did on Sunday...

If only he had the luxury of a team that could rush for 300+ yards two straight weeks...

LMAO

Dane...do you think Matt Cassel wouldn't be a successful QB with the Jets right now?

They literally have all of the necessary pieces to make a young QB successful...and even with that, Sanchez has been below average at best.

Two straight weeks with 300+ yards rushing...isn't that a QB's dream?

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:30 PM
Sure, if you look at it now he certainly does. But the same knocks you'd have for a guy like Colt McCoy or Chase Daniel applied to Brees back then. He's not all that tall and he played in a spread offense at Purdue.

Oh but that's hindsight...

If 2000 was 2009...guys like Mecca/Hamas/Dane/OTWP would shit a god damn human sized monkey if we took the 5'11" Drew Brees from spread happy Purdue.

ChiefsCountry
10-26-2009, 04:31 PM
Grbac and Green had similar winning percentages here in Kansas City other Proctor nobody is going to argue that Grbac was a great QB. Actually all of their stats were fairly similar for their careers.

Pablo
10-26-2009, 04:32 PM
Oh but that's hindsight...

If 2000 was 2009...guys like Mecca/Hamas/Dane/OTWP would shit a god damn human sized monkey if we took the 5'11" Drew Brees from spread happy Purdue.Yeah, and on second thought; I don't even think McCoy is all that short. He's probably 6' 2" or so.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:32 PM
Drew Brees the prospect, on paper, was like a less talented Sam Bradford and we all saw how much those drafturbators wanted him last year...

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 04:34 PM
Oh but that's hindsight...

If 2000 was 2009...guys like Mecca/Hamas/Dane/OTWP would shit a god damn human sized monkey if we took the 5'11" Drew Brees from spread happy Purdue.

Really, Fuckface?

First, it was 2001.

Secondly, one of my closest friends, who played cornerback at a D-I school in the mid-90's decided to go back to school to get his MBA at Purdue.

For two years, he raved to me about Drew Brees and got me on the bandwagon. I was a big fan and advocate of Brees and mentioned him on the 'Planet quite a bit. There were radio interviews at the time with Al Saunders raving about Brees. I really thought he'd be the guy.

So why don't you shut the fuck up, okay? You clearly don't know what you're talking about and quite frankly, I'm sick your "lumping" everyone together just to make some kind of shit point.

And BTW, Carson Palmer sucked yesterday.

Pablo
10-26-2009, 04:34 PM
Drew Brees the prospect, on paper, was like a less talented Sam Bradford and we all saw how much those drafturbators wanted him last year...Eh, Brees turned out to be a damn fine QB despite his supposed limitations. But here's a draft bio I found; first one google brought up.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2001/profile/drew_brees.html

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:34 PM
Grbac and Green had similar winning percentages here in Kansas City other Proctor nobody is going to argue that Grbac was a great QB. Actually all of their stats were fairly similar for their careers.
dude you're not getting it and judging by your rebuttals you're not going to get it, so drop it...

GrBac didn't play with the Chiefs during the Vermeil "no defense is our defense!" era...

Trent Green led a #1 offense for three straight years and set NFL records at QB (4 straight seasons with a QB rating over 90)...

He had nothing to do with the lack of success of this franchise during his tenure here.

ChiefsCountry
10-26-2009, 04:36 PM
dude you're not getting it and judging by your rebuttals you're not going to get it, so drop it...

GrBac didn't play with the Chiefs during the Vermeil "no defense is our defense!" era...

Trent Green led a #1 offense for three straight years and set NFL records at QB (4 straight seasons with a QB rating over 90)...

He had nothing to do with the lack of success of this franchise during his tenure here.

Your the dumb ass who said prove to you that Green wasnt a winner so I just gave you the biggest one on a platter. He was the same as Elvis Freaking Grbac winning percentage wise.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:36 PM
Really, ****face?

First, it was 2001.

Secondly, one of my closest friends, who played cornerback at a D-I school in the mid-90's decided to go back to school to get his MBA at Purdue.

For two years, he raved to me about Drew Brees and got me on the bandwagon. I was a big fan and advocate of Brees and mentioned him on the 'Planet quite a bit. There were radio interviews at the time with Al Saunders raving about Brees. I really thought he'd be the guy.

So why don't you shut the **** up, okay? You clearly don't know what you're talking about and quite frankly, I'm sick your "lumping" everyone together just to make some kind of shit point.

And BTW, Carson Palmer sucked yesterday.

Palmer was great yesterday...he was shit the week before...show me some consistency, Carson Palmer!

On the other hand, Tony Romo...

You're right though, I did underrate Carson Palmer...Ocho looks awesome and Ceddy Bens looks better than anyone not named Adrian Peterson...

Can't be right every time...(still don't think the Bengals top 8-8)...the Bears are worse with Cutler...he has totally made Forte ineffective.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:37 PM
Your the dumb ass who said prove to you that Green wasnt a winner so I just gave you the biggest one on a platter. He was the same as Elvis Freaking Grbac winning percentage wise.

omg you're so stupid it's painful

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 04:37 PM
Sure, if you look at it now he certainly does. But the same knocks you'd have for a guy like Colt McCoy or Chase Daniel applied to Brees back then. He's not all that tall and he played in a spread offense at Purdue.

I think you're wrong.

First off, the NFL Draft has passed and Chase Daniel wasn't selected. So that in itself tells you that Drew Brees was considered to be far more talented.

As for Colt McCoy, I honestly don't have enough information about him to make a judgment. In the few times I've seen him, he has good size and athleticism but I haven't seen him enough nor do I know if he's intelligent enough to make the transition to a pro-style offense.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:38 PM
Really, ****face?

First, it was 2001.

Secondly, one of my closest friends, who played cornerback at a D-I school in the mid-90's decided to go back to school to get his MBA at Purdue.

For two years, he raved to me about Drew Brees and got me on the bandwagon. I was a big fan and advocate of Brees and mentioned him on the 'Planet quite a bit. There were radio interviews at the time with Al Saunders raving about Brees. I really thought he'd be the guy.

So why don't you shut the **** up, okay? You clearly don't know what you're talking about and quite frankly, I'm sick your "lumping" everyone together just to make some kind of shit point.

And BTW, Carson Palmer sucked yesterday.

For two years, MU fans raved about Chase Daniel...

Of course the dude raved about Drew Brees...he went to Purdue for god's sake.

The fact is...he's the exact QB Mecca says is destined for NFL failure...but now, one of the drafturbators is talking about how we really screwed the pooch by not taking Brees 20 spots before he actually went 8 years ago!

JFC (Dane acronym!)

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 04:39 PM
Palmer was great yesterday...he was shit the week before...show me some consistency, Carson Palmer!

On the other hand, Tony Romo...

You're right though, I did underrate Carson Palmer...Ocho looks awesome and Ceddy Bens looks better than anyone not named Adrian Peterson...

Can't be right every time...(still don't think the Bengals top 8-8)...the Bears are worse with Cutler...he has totally made Forte ineffective.

Yeah, and I told everyone in the offseason that the Broncos would be better off with Orton and the picks than with Cutler. Cutler hasn't had a winning season since high school. That's some heavy duty karma.

The problem with your analysis in nearly each and every case, Hootie, is that you go off of emotion and not off of logic or fact.

That'll get you killed nearly every time.

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 04:40 PM
For two years, MU fans raved about Chase Daniel...

Of course the dude raved about Drew Brees...he went to Purdue for god's sake.

The fact is...he's the exact QB Mecca says is destined for NFL failure...but now, one of the drafturbators is talking about how we really screwed the pooch by not taking Brees 20 spots before he actually went 8 years ago!

JFC (Dane acronym!)

Dude, give it a rest. I complained about it then, as well. I complained about passing on Aaron Rodgers over Derrick Johnson.

Chase Daniel is an undrafted free agent that signed with the Redskins. If he has the talent to make it in the NFL, he will but to date, no one besides the Redskins is willing to give him a shot.

And no one spent a draft choice on him.

ChiefsCountry
10-26-2009, 04:41 PM
omg you're so stupid it's painful

Dude I shit turds with more brains than you. QBs are judged by wins and losses. I know it sucks for Fantasy Football geeks like yourself who are only concerned with Passing yards and touchdowns but its the truth. There is a reason why Dan Marino isn't considered the greatest QB of all time or Dan Fouts or Warren Moon.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:43 PM
Yeah, and I told everyone in the offseason that the Broncos would be better off with Orton and the picks than with Cutler. Cutler hasn't had a winning season since high school. That's some heavy duty karma.

The problem with your analysis in nearly each and every case, Hootie, is that you go off of emotion and not off of logic or fact.

That'll get you killed nearly every time.

Yeah, probably, whatever.

If we got a 27 year old Trent Green for a 2nd round pick and $27M guaranteed...how could you not be happy?

If he needs to be surrounded with talent to be successful...

THEN SURROUND HIM WITH TALENT.

Jesus.

Tom Brady was surrounded by more talent in 2007 than any QB in NFL history. He could spin around on a baseball bat for 20 seconds, get super dizzy, fall down a few times, stand back up, get non-dizzy, and then hit Randy Moss who would make some circus catch in the end zone with no hands and an elbow for a 60 yard TD.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:44 PM
Dude I shit turds with more brains than you. QBs are judged by wins and losses. I know it sucks for Fantasy Football geeks like yourself who are only concerned with Passing yards and touchdowns but its the truth. There is a reason why Dan Marino isn't considered the greatest QB of all time or Dan Fouts or Warren Moon.

I consider Peyton Manning to be the best QB of all time.

No one can tell me that a QB ever played that position better than Peyton Manning...

Of course I've been saying this since 2004...

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 04:45 PM
You know, Hootie. You're a fucking idiot. It must HURT to be that fucking dumb.

You seemed like a decent guy the first few weeks in the game day chat, then the racist shit occurred, not once but twice.

Then, you "lump" several members posts together. WTF?

Trent Green was an average QB. Period. He was a system guy that was weak and feeble behind nothing less than a Hall Fame filled offensive line. It happened to him in St. Louis and it happened to him in Kansas City.

IF Dick Vermeil wouldn't have been on such a power hungry, ego trip the Chiefs would still have their QB today: Drew Brees.

Instead, Vermeil wanted to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was HE, not Mike Martz, who brought the offense to the '99 squad.

I'd take Drew Brees ANY FUCKING DAY OF THE WEEK over TrInt Green.

in brees' first couple of years he looked like a bad 2nd round pick, no? that kind of shows you that cassel cant or at least shouldnt be written off just yet...

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 04:47 PM
in brees' first couple of years he looked like a bad 2nd round pick, no? that kind of shows you that cassel cant or at least shouldnt be written off just yet...

Explain to me how a 22 year old with no NFL experience is an appropriate comparison for a 27 year old with 4 years in one of the best organizations in pro sports. Please.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:47 PM
in brees' first couple of years he looked like a bad 2nd round pick, no? that kind of shows you that cassel cant or at least shouldnt be written off just yet...

No, everyone KNEW Brees was going to be super awesome...except for the Chargers who took Eli Manning #1 overall.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 04:48 PM
For two years, MU fans raved about Chase Daniel...

Of course the dude raved about Drew Brees...he went to Purdue for god's sake.

The fact is...he's the exact QB Mecca says is destined for NFL failure...but now, one of the drafturbators is talking about how we really screwed the pooch by not taking Brees 20 spots before he actually went 8 years ago!

JFC (Dane acronym!)

I *think* the nicest thing that I ever said about Daniel (huge MU fan) is that he could be a poor man's Jeff Garcia.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 04:48 PM
Well, let's see if he recovers like Sanchez did on Sunday...

dane did you watch that game or just see the score?



sanchez against the raiders: 9-15 143 yards 1 td. not the greatest comeback game by ANY means

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:49 PM
Explain to me how a 22 year old with no NFL experience is an appropriate comparison for a 27 year old with 4 years in one of the best organizations in pro sports. Please.

and Cassel played great down the stretch last year...with weapons around him.

Are you saying Tom Brady would be having an all-pro caliber team as the Chiefs QB right now?

All QB's need weapons...

Cassel has NO weapons and one Bowe.

Yeah, he played awful on Sunday...at least he has enough spine to get up after the 10+ hits he takes every week...

Our team is awful...we all knew that coming in...explain to me why you are so shocked?

And while you're at it, explain to me how Gholston makes the Dolphins better than Matt Ryan...or, for that fact, Jake Long?

Pablo
10-26-2009, 04:49 PM
I *think* the nicest thing that I ever said about Daniel (huge MU fan) is that he could be a poor man's Jeff Garcia.That draft bio I linked a few posts up says Brees is reminiscent of Jeff Garcia as well.

ChiefsCountry
10-26-2009, 04:50 PM
Brees getting out from under of Marty Schottenheimer was the best thing for his career. Not to mention AJ Smith letting him walk for nothing.
Posted via Mobile Device

dirk digler
10-26-2009, 04:50 PM
in brees' first couple of years he looked like a bad 2nd round pick, no? that kind of shows you that cassel cant or at least shouldnt be written off just yet...

yep. I remember him playing here and he put up one of the worst QB performances in Arrowhead history right next to Ryan Leaf. He was horrid.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:50 PM
dane did you watch that game or just see the score?



sanchez against the raiders: 9-15 143 yards 1 td. not the greatest comeback game by ANY means

Dane and Co. conveniently forget to mention the Jets have ran for about 700 yards the last two weeks...and the Chiefs have rushed for about half of that in their first 7 weeks.

Sanchez has all of the talent in the world surrounding him giving him the chance to succeed and he's still trying to fuck it up.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 04:51 PM
No, everyone KNEW Brees was going to be super awesome...except for the Chargers who took Eli Manning #1 overall.

Funny thing about that: it took him longer than normal b/c of the spread, which is precisely why people are worried about spread QBs. On top of that, once given time and the true trust of an organization, he blossomed into one of the top QBs in the game.

Of course, our 9-7 cavalcade of dumbasses would never truly put up with letting a young QB develop. We'll just talk down the prospect of drafting a QB all during last season, then give the benefit of the doubt to the 27 year old guy. :doh!:

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 04:51 PM
Your the dumb ass who said prove to you that Green wasnt a winner so I just gave you the biggest one on a platter. He was the same as Elvis Freaking Grbac winning percentage wise.

that could also speak to their respective defenses.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:52 PM
Brees getting out from under of Marty Schottenheimer was the best thing for his career. Not to mention AJ Smith letting him walk for nothing.
Posted via Mobile Device

Oh, that's right...the same Marty who was coaching while Brees turned his career around?

LMAO

You know what has ruined LT? Norv. You know who was great for LT? Marty. Marty made LT an all-time great...

More than LT losing a step...I think Norv happened.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 04:52 PM
Dane and Co. conveniently forget to mention the Jets have ran for about 700 yards the last two weeks...and the Chiefs have rushed for about half of that in their first 7 weeks.

Sanchez has all of the talent in the world surrounding him giving him the chance to succeed and he's still trying to fuck it up.

And who brings up the quarterback in New York, yet a-motherfucking-gain?

Now, who will this be blamed on?

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:53 PM
Funny thing about that: it took him longer than normal b/c of the spread, which is precisely why people are worried about spread QBs. On top of that, once given time and the true trust of an organization, he blossomed into one of the top QBs in the game.

Of course, our 9-7 cavalcade of dumbasses would never truly put up with letting a young QB develop. We'll just talk down the prospect of drafting a QB all during last season, then give the benefit of the doubt to the 27 year old guy. :doh!:

Well...that would have been one benefit of drafting Sanchez...at least we wouldn't have had to listen to your bullshit rants all year.

You keep telling us how great Gholston looks week in and week out because you refuse to admit when you're wrong.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 04:53 PM
Dude, give it a rest. I complained about it then, as well. I complained about passing on Aaron Rodgers over Derrick Johnson.

Chase Daniel is an undrafted free agent that signed with the Redskins. If he has the talent to make it in the NFL, he will but to date, no one besides the Redskins is willing to give him a shot.

And no one spent a draft choice on him.

he actually plays for the saints now dane. and suited up yesterday

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:54 PM
And who brings up the quarterback in New York, yet a-mother****ing-gain?

Now, who will this be blamed on?

It's inevitable.

This thread is about bashing Cassel...

I bet Cassel couldn't lose a game single-handedly for the Chiefs if LJ and Charles combined for 350 yards rushing.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 04:55 PM
Oh, that's right...the same Marty who was coaching while Brees turned his career around?

LMAO

You know what has ruined LT? Norv. You know who was great for LT? Marty. Marty made LT an all-time great...

More than LT losing a step...I think Norv happened.

Yep. Nothing to do with him turning 30. Nothing to do with him having 8 years of 350+ touches. Nowhere is there any precedent for this happening. <del>Earl Campbell, Larry Johnson, Eddie George, Shaun Alexander, Ahman Green</del>

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:55 PM
Cassel is the problem!

His line can't block, his backs can't run, his receivers can't catch, his coach can't coach!

If we had Sanchez we'd be 4-3.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 04:56 PM
Explain to me how a 22 year old with no NFL experience is an appropriate comparison for a 27 year old with 4 years in one of the best organizations in pro sports. Please.

he played 3 years in SD, played and sucked hence taking manning #1, my actual point is that you cant write a guy off after 6 fucking games, damn hamas

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 04:57 PM
Well...that would have been one benefit of drafting Sanchez...at least we wouldn't have had to listen to your bullshit rants all year.

You keep telling us how great Gholston looks week in and week out because you refuse to admit when you're wrong.

Oh horseshit. Has he been a disappointment due to his draft position? Absolutely. Does it mean he's a bust 20 games into his career? Absofuckinglutely not, you dumb cocksucker. Look at numerous players who took several years to "get it". I'm sorry that this is inimical to your ritalin-addled brain.

pr_capone
10-26-2009, 04:57 PM
It's inevitable.

This thread is about bashing Cassel...

I bet Cassel couldn't lose a game single-handedly for the Chiefs if LJ and Charles combined for 350 yards rushing.

Erm... this thread is about NOT bashing Cassel.

The other thread is about bashing Cassel. You know the one. Written at a 3rd grade level by a faux journalist who holds his favorite player to separate standards than the rest of the team.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:57 PM
Yep. Nothing to do with him turning 30. Nothing to do with him having 8 years of 350+ touches. Nowhere is there any precedent for this happening. <del>Earl Campbell, Larry Johnson, Eddie George, Shaun Alexander, Ahman Green</del>

Marty utilized LT to the fullest extent.

Norv doesn't utilize any of LT's skillset. It's hilarious to watch the Chargers.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 04:57 PM
Cassel is the problem!

His line can't block, his backs can't run, his receivers can't catch, his coach can't coach!

If we had Sanchez we'd be 4-3.

This is precisely what has been iterated by everyone.

When you paint your dumb ass into a corner, just lie.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:58 PM
(Unless they are playing the Chiefs, of course)...

Oh well, they can have fun with their 7-9 and Norv Turner at head coach.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 04:59 PM
Oh horseshit. Has he been a disappointment due to his draft position? Absolutely. Does it mean he's a bust 20 games into his career? Abso****inglutely not, you dumb one who sucks the penis. Look at numerous players who took several years to "get it". I'm sorry that this is inimical to your ritalin-addled brain.

So in your expert "I took him over Matt Ryan for a team without a QB" opinion...

Will Gholston MORE LIKELY be an all-pro STUD drafted #1 overall by sir Hamas Jenkins, or a colossal DAMN, I should've taken Ryan bust?

dirk digler
10-26-2009, 04:59 PM
Marty utilized LT to the fullest extent.

Norv doesn't utilize any of LT's skillset. It's hilarious to watch the Chargers.

I agree with that. It was hilarious yesterday watching Norv trying to suck LT's cock by giving him 5 chances at the goal line and he still couldn't get in.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 05:00 PM
Marty utilized LT to the fullest extent.

Norv doesn't utilize any of LT's skillset. It's hilarious to watch the Chargers.

Norv, the guy who multiple NFL sources have said is the best guy for any RB to have as his coordinator. When did Emmitt Smith have his most productive years? Terry Allen? Charlie Garner?

I'm sure it's just a fucking coincidence that LT's decline started when he hit his late 20's and early 30's. It must be entirely attributable to Norv. I mean, look at how he's ruined Darren Sproles.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 05:01 PM
I agree with that. It was hilarious yesterday watching Norv trying to suck LT's cock by giving him 5 chances at the goal line and he still couldn't get in.

The Chiefs have been good against the run all year...and terrible against the pass. Don't see how Chiefs fans can't even see that.

That's our only strength...which is why I said two weeks ago against the Redskins that we'd only lose if Jason Campbell beat us...because no one is going to beat us on the ground this year...

It's going to be QB after QB after QB.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 05:02 PM
I agree with that. It was hilarious yesterday watching Norv trying to suck LT's cock by giving him 5 chances at the goal line and he still couldn't get in.

So Norv doesn't well utilize the skills of one of the most prolific TD scorers in NFL history.

Meanwhile, he gives him 5 straight carries.

He's :

A) trying to use Tomlinson as he was once best used
B) proving that Tomlinson is fucking washed up.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 05:03 PM
The Chiefs have been good against the run all year...and terrible against the pass. Don't see how Chiefs fans can't even see that.

That's our only strength...which is why I said two weeks ago against the Redskins that we'd only lose if Jason Campbell beat us...because no one is going to beat us on the ground this year...

It's going to be QB after QB after QB.

Yes, the 25th of 32 rush D's is a good rushing defense.

The 31st ranked Rushing O just put 131 up on us, almost 3 times their season average.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 05:03 PM
Norv, the guy who multiple NFL sources have said is the best guy for any RB to have as his coordinator. When did Emmitt Smith have his most productive years? Terry Allen? Charlie Garner?

I'm sure it's just a ****ing coincidence that LT's decline started when he hit his late 20's and early 30's. It must be entirely attributable to Norv. I mean, look at how he's ruined Darren Sproles.

Sproles is nothing more than a 3rd down back with return skills. He can't run between the tackles...that was evidenced when LT was hurt this year.

I'm waiting for Norv to watch one fucking tape of 2006 and realize he can get 3-5 EASY TD's PER YEAR by running an LT sweep/HB pass...LT runs that play so perfectly it's an easy TD every time. They've ran it one time since Norv took over as coach...and have 1 TD.

dirk digler
10-26-2009, 05:04 PM
The Chiefs have been good against the run all year...and terrible against the pass. Don't see how Chiefs fans can't even see that.

That's our only strength...which is why I said two weeks ago against the Redskins that we'd only lose if Jason Campbell beat us...because no one is going to beat us on the ground this year...

It's going to be QB after QB after QB.

Let's be honest the Chiefs haven't been good at anything this year. Right now they are ranked 25th in rushing D giving up 4.4 yds a carry. That is not good that is shitty.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 05:06 PM
Yes, the 25th of 32 rush D's is a good rushing defense.

LMAOLMAOLMAOLMAO

Apparently you don't watch the games, eh?

We stuff the run...we consistently, and ONLY, get stops when the opponent runs the ball.

But hey, reference a stat because you can't formulate your own opinions...

We shut down the Redskins on the ground...Portis had one 80 yard run that throws off the stats.

We only got stops against the Ravens when they ran the ball...and then our defense spent so much time on the field Rice tore them apart in the 4th quarter...skewed the stats.

Dallas had 1 good run against us...

Our defense is solid against the run, and terrible against the pass...of course when an offense softens up our defense with the passing game, the running game opens up.

Our defense is ass backwards...teams pass against us to get the running game going late.

But hey, reference your statbook, genius LMAO

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 05:07 PM
Let's be honest the Chiefs haven't been good at anything this year. Right now they are ranked 25th in rushing D giving up 4.4 yds a carry. That is not good that is shitty.

ROFL

So...Hamas belittles the thread starter for referencing Cassel's TD to INT rate before the game on Sunday...calling them garbage stats...

but then references the statbook when talking about our rush defense.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Jesus Christ.

dirk digler
10-26-2009, 05:08 PM
So Norv doesn't well utilize the skills of one of the most prolific TD scorers in NFL history.

Meanwhile, he gives him 5 straight carries.

He's :

A) trying to use Tomlinson as he was once best used
B) proving that Tomlinson is fucking washed up.

LT isn't what he used to be but let's not forget Marcus Allen in his mid to late 30's scoring TD's after TD's with Marty as the coach.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 05:09 PM
LT isn't what he used to be but let's not forget Marcus Allen in his mid to late 30's scoring TD's after TD's with Marty as the coach.

to be fair marcus sat for a couple of years basically

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 05:11 PM
198
156
150
118
135
67
93


Hallmarks of a great run defense.

The thing that is so fucking pathetic about you is that you know nothing, you admit it in many other arguments, and then you enter into others expecting to have credibility. When presented with counterveiling evidence, you simply lie, or you assume that because you lie, that everyone else does (since as a sociopath, you see nothing wrong with it).

You're a fucking fool, plain and simple, and everyone who reads your posts sees you as such. You are currently arguing that a team that is in the bottom quarter of the league is a good run defense.

Maybe if you'd spend less time doing shots and dropping N-bombs you could actually watch a game, and formulate an opinion that isn't based upon suckling the teat of Matthew Berry, or some other fantasy fucktard who doesn't know rat shit from Rice Krispies.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 05:12 PM
LT isn't what he used to be but let's not forget Marcus Allen in his mid to late 30's scoring TD's after TD's with Marty as the coach.

Since when does the exception prove the rule, dirk?

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 05:13 PM
dane did you watch that game or just see the score?

Yeah Jason, I had the game on until it was 31-0, then I flipped to another game

sanchez against the raiders: 9-15 143 yards 1 td. not the greatest comeback game by ANY means

:shake:

Jason, was Sanchez afraid to throw downfield? No.

Was Sanchez tenative? No.

Were there any residual hangover from last week? No.

THAT'S what I was referring to, not whether or not he went out threw for 300 yards.

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 05:13 PM
No, everyone KNEW Brees was going to be super awesome...except for the Chargers who took Eli Manning #1 overall.

That's on Marty, who couldn't coach him up.

Funny how a year later, he goes to New Orleans and lights up the league.

dirk digler
10-26-2009, 05:13 PM
to be fair marcus sat for a couple of years basically

True but we are only talking about 1 yd and I don't think he is that far gone.

dirk digler
10-26-2009, 05:14 PM
Since when does the exception prove the rule, dirk?

when I say it does :p

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-26-2009, 05:14 PM
ROFL

So...Hamas belittles the thread starter for referencing Cassel's TD to INT rate before the game on Sunday...calling them garbage stats...

but then references the statbook when talking about our rush defense.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Jesus Christ.

You know why? Because I watched the games.

Yards gained via the run are yards gained. Especially when you are running out the clock. The D can stack the line. If anything, you should give up fewer YPA.

Yards and TDs gained when down by 30 and facing a Cover 4 mean nothing, because the defense is giving you huge chunks of the field in exchange for eating up the clock.

But again, since you are more focused on raping the white trash waitress at your local Road House than watching the game, you don't know this.

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 05:16 PM
in brees' first couple of years he looked like a bad 2nd round pick, no? that kind of shows you that cassel cant or at least shouldnt be written off just yet...

First off, Brees was on a shitty San Diego team that was coming off a 1-15 season. Mike fucking Riley was the head coach, then Marty. Two guys that aren't exactly known as a QB's best friend. Yet in 2002, the Chargers were 8-8.

Secondly, why are you comparing a 22 year-old rookie to a 27 year old veteran?

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 05:17 PM
Yeah Jason, I had the game on until it was 31-0, then I flipped to another game



:shake:

Jason, was Sanchez afraid to throw downfield? No.

Was Sanchez tenative? No.

Were there any residual hangover from last week? No.

THAT'S what I was referring to, not whether or not he went out threw for 300 yards.

dane did he throw the ball downfield? and i would say there WAS a hangover but it was the HCs not sanchez's


sanchez attempts by week
week 1: 31
week2:22
3:30
4:27
5:24
6:29
7:15
they hid him yesterday sorry.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 05:18 PM
First off, Brees was on a shitty San Diego team that was coming off a 1-15 season. Mike fucking Riley was the head coach, then Marty. Two guys that aren't exactly known as a QB's best friend. Yet in 2002, the Chargers were 8-8.

Secondly, why are you comparing a 22 year-old rookie to a 27 year old veteran?

asked and answered already, it was an EXAMPLE on how you cant give up on ANY player 6 games into their tenure anywhere

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 05:18 PM
Cassel is the problem!

His line can't block, his backs can't run, his receivers can't catch, his coach can't coach!

If we had Sanchez we'd be 4-3.

The only person that's ever made that kind of a leap is YOU.

The same guy that think Carson Palmer is an overrated joke.

JFC.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 05:19 PM
That's on Marty, who couldn't coach him up.

Funny how a year later, he goes to New Orleans and lights up the league.

he lit up the league with Marty...for two years

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 05:20 PM
Marty utilized LT to the fullest extent.

Norv doesn't utilize any of LT's skillset. It's hilarious to watch the Chargers.

Right.

That's why San Diego couldn't win a playoff game with Marty, yet Norv had them in the AFC Championship.

Do you just make up all the shit you post?

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 05:20 PM
The only person that's ever made that kind of a leap is YOU.

The same guy that think Carson Palmer is an overrated joke.

JFC.

and this is coming from the guy who said the Roaf and Green trades were terrible trades.

JFC.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 05:21 PM
Right.

That's why San Diego couldn't win a playoff game with Marty, yet Norv had them in the AFC Championship.

Do you just make up all the shit you post?

OMG

Yeah...Norv is a great coach...he's taken Marty's team and they have gotten progressively worse.

Ok, sure...they lucked into the AFC Championship game...yaaay.

At no point did anyone really think the Chargers had a chance at the Super Bowl.

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 05:23 PM
and this is coming from the guy who said the Roaf and Green trades were terrible trades.

JFC.

They were.

Super Bowl wins? Zero

Super Bowl appearances? Zero

Playoff appearance in 5 seasons? One

Playoff wins? Zero

Damage to the franchise? Incalculable

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 05:24 PM
OMG

Yeah...Norv is a great coach...he's taken Marty's team and they have gotten progressively worse.

Ok, sure...they lucked into the AFC Championship game...yaaay.

At no point did anyone really think the Chargers had a chance at the Super Bowl.

This is dumb.

No one "Lucks" into a Championship game.

If LT had been healthy then or this past post-season, the results may have been far different.

DeezNutz
10-26-2009, 05:26 PM
LMAOLMAOLMAOLMAO

Apparently you don't watch the games, eh?

We stuff the run...we consistently, and ONLY, get stops when the opponent runs the ball.

But hey, reference a stat because you can't formulate your own opinions...

We shut down the Redskins on the ground...Portis had one 80 yard run that throws off the stats.

We only got stops against the Ravens when they ran the ball...and then our defense spent so much time on the field Rice tore them apart in the 4th quarter...skewed the stats.

Dallas had 1 good run against us...

Our defense is solid against the run, and terrible against the pass...of course when an offense softens up our defense with the passing game, the running game opens up.

Our defense is ass backwards...teams pass against us to get the running game going late.

But hey, reference your statbook, genius LMAO

Regarding what's in bold:

DV approves this message. "If we'd only prevented those 3 big plays..."

Nonsense. Choice killed us to the tune of 11.5 YPC. And if Dallas had utilized him instead of an injured Barber, we would have been embarrassed.

Short Leash Hootie
10-26-2009, 05:31 PM
Regarding what's in bold:

DV approves this message. "If we'd only prevented those 3 big plays..."

Nonsense. Choice killed us to the tune of 11.5 YPC. And if Dallas had utilized him instead of an injured Barber, we would have been embarrassed.

"If only they played Choice..."

DeezNutz
10-26-2009, 05:35 PM
"If only they played Choice..."

Sorry, I'm not following.

He had 8 carries for 92 yards, with a long of 36. In his other 7 carries, then, he averaged 8 YPC.

That's HS stuff.

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 05:39 PM
The Chiefs have been good against the run all year

Huh?

The Chiefs are 25th in the NFL against the run.

Please explain how that's in any way, shape or form, "good".

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 05:44 PM
Yeah Jason, I had the game on until it was 31-0, then I flipped to another game



:shake:

Jason, was Sanchez afraid to throw downfield? No.

Was Sanchez tenative? No.

Were there any residual hangover from last week? No.

THAT'S what I was referring to, not whether or not he went out threw for 300 yards.

Not the best example to use. The Jets ran the ball 40 times yesterday while the defense pitched a shutout.

Sanchez's real test will be in late November and December. We'll see if he has any desire to throw deep in the conditions.

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 05:46 PM
Not the best example to use. The Jets ran the ball 40 times yesterday while the defense pitched a shutout.

Sanchez's real test will be in late November and December. We'll see if he has any desire to throw deep in the conditions.

Bullshit.

JFC, some of you people miss the point that it hurts me to read your posts.

Did Sanchez shit himself yesterday?

No.

Period. Bottom line. End of story.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 05:49 PM
Bullshit.

JFC, some of you people are so fucking stupid it hurts me to read your posts.

Did Sanchez shit himself yesterday?

No.

Period. Bottom line. End of story.


did he get the chance. no his HC hid him.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 05:50 PM
dane did he throw the ball downfield? and i would say there WAS a hangover but it was the HCs not sanchez's


sanchez attempts by week
week 1: 31
week2:22
3:30
4:27
5:24
6:29
7:15
they hid him yesterday sorry.


heres those week by week pass attempts again dane, this week was less than all the others. i wonder if that had to do with the way he played last week?


now some of it could be due to having two 4 yard td drives to start the game but still.... the numbers shw that they arent as confident in his play as they had been

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 05:53 PM
did he get the chance. no his HC hid him.

Bullshit.

:shake:

Was he Ryan Leaf out there? No fucking way.

Do you fucking get it, Jason?

Seriously. Do you FUCKING GET IT?

He had a bad day. Period. My question was after Cassel's bad day, how would Cassel respond?

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 05:53 PM
Bullshit.

JFC, some of you people miss the point that it hurts me to read your posts.

Did Sanchez shit himself yesterday?

No.

Period. Bottom line. End of story.

It's a horrible example.

Was Sanchez forced to play from behind the entire game? Was Sanchez forced to do everything on his own because the running game wasn't moving the ball? No and No.

Did he shit his pants? No. Was he asked to do any dirty work that would have made him shit his pants? No. The way the Jets played, he could have shit his pants and the Jets would have still won by 20.

DeezNutz
10-26-2009, 05:54 PM
now some of it could be due to having two 4 yard td drives to start the game but still.... the numbers shw that they arent as confident in his play as they had been

And once the Jets were sufficiently kicking the shit out of the Raiders, passing the ball would be beyond stupid.

Run it, use clock, and get the fuck out of town.

24-0 at half. No reason to throw. No one "hid" shit.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 05:54 PM
Bullshit.

:shake:

Was he Ryan Leaf out there? No fucking way.

Do you fucking get it, Jason?

Seriously. Do you FUCKING GET IT?

He had a bad day. Period. My question was after Cassel's bad day, how would Cassel respond?

yes dane I FUCKING GET IT, his HC hid him look at the per game pass attempts, he didnt get the CHANCE to shit the bed yesterday

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 05:55 PM
It's a horrible example.

Was Sanchez forced to play from behind the entire game? Was Sanchez forced to do everything on his own because the running game wasn't moving the ball? No and No.

Did he shit his pants? No. Was he asked to do any dirty work that would have made him shit his pants? No. The way the Jets played, he could have shit his pants and the Jets would have still won by 20.


You fucking guys are IDIOTS.

The question was, HOW WILL CASSEL RESPOND AFTER HIS SHITTY FUCKING DAY.

Sanchez threw the ball downfield effectively. His team won. And he showed no ill-effects of his horrible outing last week.

Can Cassel rebound from Sunday? What kind of character does he possess?

THAT was and IS the question.

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 05:55 PM
Bullshit.

:shake:

Was he Ryan Leaf out there? No ****ing way.

Do you ****ing get it, Jason?

Seriously. Do you ****ING GET IT?

He had a bad day. Period. My question was after Cassel's bad day, how would Cassel respond?

It was more than just a bad day. There is a legitimate concern that he has no idea how to throw in the wind. And he plays in a stadium that has brutal, whipping winds.

He's proven by now that he's no Ryan Leaf. But if he doesn't figure this thing out, he could easily become a liability when the team needs him the most.

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 05:56 PM
yes dane I FUCKING GET IT, his HC hid him look at the per game pass attempts, he didnt get the CHANCE to shit the bed yesterday

Well Jason, his coach would have to a drooling fucking moron to stop running the ball yesterday, wouldn't he?

300 yards on the ground and you want them to pass?

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 05:57 PM
It was more than just a bad day. There is a legitimate concern that he has no idea how to throw in the wind. And he plays in a stadium that has brutal, whipping winds.

He's proven by now that he's no Ryan Leaf. But if he doesn't figure this thing out, he could easily become a liability when the team needs him the most.

Well if he can't figure it out, the Jet were dumb to trade for him, right?

You'd think if that was a concern, the Jets brass would have addressed it by now, correct?

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 05:58 PM
And once the Jets were sufficiently kicking the shit out of the Raiders, passing the ball would be beyond stupid.

Run it, use clock, and get the fuck out of town.

24-0 at half. No reason to throw. No one "hid" shit.

sorry but his HC hid him. they ran for 300 plus the week before and kept winging the ball when they could have just continued to run and win the game. Did they? nope they gave him a chance to make plays.

Yesterday would have been a GREAT day to let the kid have a chance to wash hos mouth of the bad taste from the week before with a good second half leading by a ton. Did they? no why??? only ryan knows but maybe he was afraid sanchez's confidence would be shaken more.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 05:58 PM
Well Jason, his coach would have to a drooling fucking moron to stop running the ball yesterday, wouldn't he?

300 yards on the ground and you want them to pass?

so are you saying that his HC WAS A drooling moron the prior week?

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 06:00 PM
You ****ing guys are IDIOTS.

The question was, HOW WILL CASSEL RESPOND AFTER HIS SHITTY ****ING DAY.

Sanchez threw the ball downfield effectively. His team won. And he showed no ill-effects of his horrible outing last week.

Can Cassel rebound from Sunday? What kind of character does he possess?

THAT was and IS the question.

If the Chiefs put up 300 yards rushing after the bye week, shut out the Jaguars, and only ask Cassel to throw the ball 15 times, then it's an apples to apples comparison.

You're comparing a guy who is asked to carry the team to a guy who is asked to manage a game.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:00 PM
You fucking guys are IDIOTS.

The question was, HOW WILL CASSEL RESPOND AFTER HIS SHITTY FUCKING DAY.

Sanchez threw the ball downfield effectively. His team won. And he showed no ill-effects of his horrible outing last week.

Can Cassel rebound from Sunday? What kind of character does he possess?

THAT was and IS the question.


dane it's a horrible example, i'm sure if we run the ball for over 300 yards and ask cassel to throw it 15 times in two weeks he will do just fine. sanchez averaged less than 10 yards per completion. he didnt throw down field all that much....

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:01 PM
Well if he can't figure it out, the Jet were dumb to trade for him, right?

You'd think if that was a concern, the Jets brass would have addressed it by now, correct?

what would you think they would do to address the situation right now? run the ball more and pass less?

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 06:01 PM
so are you saying that his HC WAS A drooling moron the prior week?

Are you implying that the Jets can routinely put up 300 yards on the ground against anyone in the NFL?

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:02 PM
Are you implying that the Jets can routinely put up 300 yards on the ground against anyone in the NFL?

uuuuhhhhhh no, but the week before when sanchez threw all those ints they DID run for over 300 yards. thats a fact and kinda blows your theory that he wasnt hid yesterday out of the water

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 06:04 PM
what would you think they would do to address the situation right now? run the ball more and pass less?

No, Jason.

I would think that they would have had him throw the ball in private workouts at Jets stadium. But gee, that would mean that team was performing their due diligence and I just don't know if that's possible for an NFL franchise to do.

And if you think that ANY team would prefer to pass when they can run the ball and the clock effectively, you haven't been paying much attention lately.

Personally, I think you're trying to be a smart ass and not ONCE have you addressed whether or not you believe Cassel will perform well in Jacksonville after his terrible outing.

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 06:04 PM
Well if he can't figure it out, the Jet were dumb to trade for him, right?

You'd think if that was a concern, the Jets brass would have addressed it by now, correct?

That's totally ridiculous. So you think it would have made sense for the Jets to trade for another QB after forking over a $60M contract, trading high picks to get him, and sending the signal that they're going to give up on a rookie?

Sanchez could figure it out. I'm not saying it won't happen. But as of right now, it has to be just as concerning as Cassel's accuracy issues.

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 06:06 PM
That's totally ridiculous. So you think it would have made sense for the Jets to trade for another QB after forking over a $60M contract, trading high picks to get him, and sending the signal that they're going to give up on a rookie?

Huh?

Sanchez could figure it out. I'm not saying it won't happen. But as of right now, it has to be just as concerning as Cassel's accuracy issues.

No, it isn't.

Look, I couldn't give a shit about Sanchez. But Cassel's 27 years old AND he's inaccurate.

That's not a very good combination, IMO.

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 06:08 PM
No, Jason.

I would think that they would have had him throw the ball in private workouts at Jets stadium. But gee, that would mean that team was performing their due diligence and I just don't know if that's possible for an NFL franchise to do.

And if you think that ANY team would prefer to pass when they can run the ball and the clock effectively, you haven't been paying much attention lately.

Personally, I think you're trying to be a smart ass and not ONCE have you addressed whether or not you believe Cassel will perform well in Jacksonville after his terrible outing.

Just as you would think that after watching Cassel for 5 years in New England, you would think Pioli would know that Cassel had some accuracy issues.

#1 - USC's Pro Day was in April. So you don't have the chance to simulate weather conditions.

#2 - if the Jets evaluated his arm strength in the conditions, then they were obviously wrong. Can it be fixed? Maybe. But right now, it's a problem.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:08 PM
No, Jason.

I would think that they would have had him throw the ball in private workouts at Jets stadium. But gee, that would mean that team was performing their due diligence and I just don't know if that's possible for an NFL franchise to do.

And if you think that ANY team would prefer to pass when they can run the ball and the clock effectively, you haven't been paying much attention lately.

Personally, I think you're trying to be a smart ass and not ONCE have you addressed whether or not you believe Cassel will perform well in Jacksonville after his terrible outing.

dane i'm not trying to be a smartass, they ran the ball for over 300 yadrs the week sanchez threw 5 ints, they had the lead and instead of pounding the ball some more they threw it in a close game and sanchez gave it away.

now take yesterday they were up BIG early and could have let him have a chance to get his confidence back and yet they didnt really give him that chance.


To answer your question": yes i think cassel will bounce back and lead us to victory over the jags. the same ones who you said were a team on the upswing and underrated here right before they got beat by seattle 41-0 IIRC

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 06:09 PM
If the Chiefs put up 300 yards rushing after the bye week, shut out the Jaguars, and only ask Cassel to throw the ball 15 times, then it's an apples to apples comparison.

You're comparing a guy who is asked to carry the team to a guy who is asked to manage a game.

You think that Cassel is being asked to carry the team?

If so, why does Larry Johnson get so many carries per week?

The Chiefs running backs ran the ball 25 times.

They threw it 25 times with only 10 completions.

That isn't exactly "carrying" the team, is it?

DeezNutz
10-26-2009, 06:10 PM
yes i think cassel will bounce back and lead us to victory over the jags.

No chance.

We might win, as in it's theoretically possible, but Cassel isn't leading shit.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:11 PM
That's not a very good combination, IMO.

he's inaccurate RIGHT NOW, that could have to do with not really trusting his o line and forcing it when it's not really there, or the fact that he cant trust the WRS that have been here so he tries to throw to the new guys because MAYBE they will actually catch the ball. how do you know until it comes game time?

Mecca
10-26-2009, 06:11 PM
If he has guys open downfield my guess is he doesn't rebound..

You can leave dude wide open down field and Cassel can't hit him.

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 06:11 PM
Huh?



No, it isn't.

Look, I couldn't give a shit about Sanchez. But Cassel's 27 years old AND he's inaccurate.

That's not a very good combination, IMO.

I don't see any difference. If they have incurable flaws, it doesn't matter what age they are. If Sanchez can't figure out how to throw in the wind, and Cassel can't be more accurate throwing downfield, both of them are going to be wasted investments.

And the first comment was to address your point that just because the Jets didn't trade for another QB, that that means the Jets don't think Sanchez's arm strength in the conditions is a problem. I would imagine it's a very big concern and that they're working like hell to coach him out of it.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:11 PM
No chance.

We might win, as in it's theoretically possible, but Cassel isn't leading shit.

really? huh. he's the leader of the offense.

Mecca
10-26-2009, 06:12 PM
he's inaccurate RIGHT NOW, that could have to do with not really trusting his o line and forcing it when it's not really there, or the fact that he cant trust the WRS that have been here so he tries to throw to the new guys because MAYBE they will actually catch the ball. how do you know until it comes game time?

LMAO

"Right now"

How many times have we talked about or heard "accuracy is something you either have or you don't have" when talking about someone like Russell?

Cassel is wildly inaccurate down the field, he had the same problem last year and it was discussed, it's not something new or happening because he's here. It's happening because he sucks at it.

DeezNutz
10-26-2009, 06:12 PM
really? huh. he's the leader of the offense.

He is? He hasn't "led" shit this season.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:13 PM
If he has guys open downfield my guess is he doesn't rebound..

You can leave dude wide open down field and Cassel can't hit him.

hard to hit someone when you cant see them or have people all around your feet and have been hit on like 75% of you pass attempts.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:14 PM
He is? He hasn't "led" shit this season.

really? he has led several late game tying or lead changing drives. no?

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 06:14 PM
You think that Cassel is being asked to carry the team?

If so, why does Larry Johnson get so many carries per week?

The Chiefs running backs ran the ball 25 times.

They threw it 25 times with only 10 completions.

That isn't exactly "carrying" the team, is it?

Umm... duh.

The Chiefs can't play defense. They can't run the ball. The Chiefs run the ball 25 times, but how many times are they forced into a 3rd and 8 because they ran the ball twice and moved the ball nowhere.

Most of Sanchez's passes are going against defenses who respect the run and are loading 8 men in a box. And the running game does well enough that they at least get quite a few 3rd and short situations.

So yes, forcing your QB to consistently gain 10 yards on every 3-down possession is asking your QB to carry your team.

Mecca
10-26-2009, 06:14 PM
Matt Cassel "I may suck but the majority of the fan base will make excuses for me so it's all good"

DeezNutz
10-26-2009, 06:14 PM
hard to hit someone when you cant see them or have people all around your feet and have been hit on like 75% of you pass attempts.

That might be true.

But then why was he inaccurate with the deep ball last year, with a much better line and overall team?

DeezNutz
10-26-2009, 06:16 PM
really? he has led several late game tying or lead changing drives. no?

Two games. And I give him 0 credit for the Oakland game because his antics at the end of the first half obviate any distinction at the end of the second.

Mecca
10-26-2009, 06:16 PM
Matt Cassel after you cross the 10 yard mark becomes inaccurate and the further you go downfield it gets even worse.

That's just how it is. Of course for months before the season Jason tried to say that was on Moss etc etc so he's not going to admit that Cassel is awful throwing down the field.

DeezNutz
10-26-2009, 06:17 PM
Matt Cassel after you cross the 10 yard mark becomes inaccurate and the further you go downfield it gets even worse.

That's just how it is. Of course for months before the season Jason tried to say that was on Moss etc etc so he's not going to admit that Cassel is awful throwing down the field.

Why was it Moss's fault?

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 06:17 PM
Matt Cassel "I may suck but the majority of the fan base will make excuses for me so it's all good"

It's not making excuses. It's the fan base's obsession with this "he sucks or he's a pro bowler" mentality.

I'm worried about Cassel's accuracy issues. I can't defend those and he has to figure that out. But when people pretend that the o-line isn't a problem, that he isn't forced into a shitty situation, or that he's somehow holding onto the ball too long behind a line that whiffs on more blocks than any o-line in the league, I'll make "excuses."

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:18 PM
You think that Cassel is being asked to carry the team?

If so, why does Larry Johnson get so many carries per week?

The Chiefs running backs ran the ball 25 times.

They threw it 25 times with only 10 completions.

That isn't exactly "carrying" the team, is it?

jets 255 rushes 179 passes
chiefs 205 rushes 212 passes
they have 500 more yards rushing than us.

yeah i would say that the pressure falls on cassel to win the games.

Mecca
10-26-2009, 06:19 PM
Why was it Moss's fault?

Basically that "Moss was dogging it and giving up on balls and dropping them" stuff like that.

Jason argued consistently that Cassel wasn't inaccurate down the field...

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:19 PM
Why was it Moss's fault?

if some of you would have watched the games you would know. moss dogged it and didnt even run all out on pass plays until about week 9

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:20 PM
Basically that "Moss was dogging it and giving up on balls and dropping them" stuff like that.

Jason argued consistently that Cassel wasn't inaccurate down the field...

i just actually said that it was as much on moss as cassel.

Mecca
10-26-2009, 06:20 PM
It's not making excuses. It's the fan base's obsession with this "he sucks or he's a pro bowler" mentality.

I'm worried about Cassel's accuracy issues. I can't defend those and he has to figure that out. But when people pretend that the o-line isn't a problem, that he isn't forced into a shitty situation, or that he's somehow holding onto the ball too long behind a line that whiffs on more blocks than any o-line in the league, I'll make "excuses."

I don't care if he's on the worst team ever assembled, I'm not even asking him to win games. When a guy is wide open he better fucking hit him with the ball when he's suppose to be our franchise.

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 06:20 PM
Two games. And I give him 0 credit for the Oakland game because his antics at the end of the first half obviate any distinction at the end of the second.

I don't think that's a fair argument to make, given that it was his first game of the season. In fairness, he hasn't made any of those kinds of mistakes all season long.

Lots of QBs make dumb mistakes early in the game. Big Ben does it all the time--he usually has about a 1:1 TD/INT ratio. Brady won lots of games early in his career where his offense couldn't score more than 10 points, but he came through in huge fashion late in the game. If a QB rallies the team from behind in the 4th quarter, it's a huge accomplishment, regardless of your earlier performance that game.

Mecca
10-26-2009, 06:21 PM
i just actually said that it was as much on moss as cassel.

And it appears to be wrong as Cassel is still awful throwing down the field.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:21 PM
I don't care if he's on the worst team ever assembled, I'm not even asking him to win games. When a guy is wide open he better fucking hit him with the ball when he's suppose to be our franchise.

what about getting hit when he's trying to throw the ball?

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 06:21 PM
I don't care if he's on the worst team ever assembled, I'm not even asking him to win games. When a guy is wide open he better ****ing hit him with the ball when he's suppose to be our franchise.

Like I said, I have no arguments right now about accuracy issues. And it's a real concern.

I have a problem with people making up other arguments because they don't like him.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:21 PM
And it appears to be wrong as Cassel is still awful throwing down the field.

funny that brady has had the same problem some with moss this year(overthrows)

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 06:22 PM
what about getting hit when he's trying to throw the ball?

I agree with that.

But yesterday in the second half, there was no excuse. The big plays he missed were out of a clean pocket with good blocking. He has to make those plays. No excuses there.

Mecca
10-26-2009, 06:24 PM
He didn't get hit on the 3 throws he badly missed wide open guys on.

My problem with Cassel is he looks at 1 receiver and when he hits his back foot if that guy isn't open he starts moving even if the pocket is fine. He's gotten sacked a few times due to moving when the pocket was fine. Cassel can't fathom standing in the pocket going through progressions, the only time I've seen him look at 2 without moving is when the 2 guys were lined up together on the same side of the field.

DeezNutz
10-26-2009, 06:24 PM
i just actually said that it was as much on moss as cassel.

No, I wouldn't know because it's not accurate, kind of like Cassel himself.

I don't think that's a fair argument to make, given that it was his first game of the season. In fairness, he hasn't made any of those kinds of mistakes all season long.

Lots of QBs make dumb mistakes early in the game. Big Ben does it all the time--he usually has about a 1:1 TD/INT ratio. Brady won lots of games early in his career where his offense couldn't score more than 10 points, but he came through in huge fashion late in the game. If a QB rallies the team from behind in the 4th quarter, it's a huge accomplishment, regardless of your earlier performance that game.

Mental mistakes of that magnitude are never acceptable, particularly from a vet.

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 06:24 PM
jets 255 rushes 179 passes
chiefs 205 rushes 212 passes
they have 500 more yards rushing than us.

yeah i would say that the pressure falls on cassel to win the games.

Come on, Jason.

The playcalling has been nearly perfectly even, run to pass. Cassel is not being counted on to win games because six times this season, they lost. And many of those games, the Chiefs were never in a position to score touchdowns, let alone win.

If it were 70/30 pass, I'd be with you. But not 50/50.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:24 PM
I agree with that.

But yesterday in the second half, there was no excuse. The big plays he missed were out of a clean pocket with good blocking. He has to make those plays. No excuses there.

i agree, i just fell as though hes a little shell shocked right now and doesnt set up like he should. seeing a phantom rush when its not really there. i hope this abortion of a line doesnt fuck his head up...

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:26 PM
He didn't get hit on the 3 throws he badly missed wide open guys on.

My problem with Cassel is he looks at 1 receiver and when he hits his back foot if that guy isn't open he starts moving even if the pocket is fine. He's gotten sacked a few times due to moving when the pocket was fine. Cassel can't fathom standing in the pocket going through progressions, the only time I've seen him look at 2 without moving is when the 2 guys were lined up together on the same side of the field.

wouldnt that speak to him assuming that someone's GOT TO BE GETTING there due to the way the line has played so far?

DeezNutz
10-26-2009, 06:27 PM
wouldnt that speak to him assuming that someone's GOT TO BE GETTING there due to the way the line has played so far?

Totally understandable. /Huard/

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:27 PM
No, I wouldn't know because it's not accurate, kind of like Cassel himself.

.

really thats funny when there were announcers saying that during games last year hell they even illustrated that, but you know this already from watching those games right?

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:28 PM
Totally understandable. /Huard/

see huard just laid down cassel usually puts up a fight. he usually ends up taking a sack and then you guys scream that he held the ball too long

DeezNutz
10-26-2009, 06:29 PM
really thats funny when there were announcers saying that during games last year hell they even illustrated that, but you know this already from watching those games right?

6-7 Pats games. Not all.

Didn't seem to be a problem to me.

DeezNutz
10-26-2009, 06:29 PM
see huard just laid down cassel usually puts up a fight. he usually ends up taking a sack and then you guys scream that he held the ball too long

He went full Huard at one point yesterday.

But, generally, Cassel has shown himself to be a tough dude.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:32 PM
6-7 Pats games. Not all.

Didn't seem to be a problem to me.

i watched them all. it happened. hell in one game they were driving with 15 seconds left moss got chipped at the line and gave up on the play just jogged downfield. the defender quit running with him and when moss realized the ball was thrown he couldnt turn it on quick enough. Wide open for a td to win the game and jogging???

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:32 PM
He went full Huard at one point yesterday.

But, generally, Cassel has shown himself to be a tough dude.

i saw it thats why i said usually:p

Mecca
10-26-2009, 06:32 PM
Cassel even went big fetal at 1 point yesterday.

I did enjoy how they purposely didn't put in Brodie Croyle to avoid any kind of controversy.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:33 PM
Cassel even went big fetal at 1 point yesterday.

I did enjoy how they purposely didn't put in Brodie Croyle to avoid any kind of controversy.

if you have decided that cassel is you guy thats a smart move.

Raised On Riots
10-26-2009, 06:35 PM
So Hootie comes back and immediately the board's IQ drops by 80 points.

That ban wasn't long enough.

Mecca
10-26-2009, 06:36 PM
At this point Cassel hasn't proven he's the guy, the only thing that says he's the guy is his contract and the fat guy up in the box.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:37 PM
At this point Cassel hasn't proven he's the guy, the only thing that says he's the guy is his contract and the fat guy up in the box.

croyle has actually shown LESS in his chances though

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 06:38 PM
He didn't get hit on the 3 throws he badly missed wide open guys on.

My problem with Cassel is he looks at 1 receiver and when he hits his back foot if that guy isn't open he starts moving even if the pocket is fine. He's gotten sacked a few times due to moving when the pocket was fine. Cassel can't fathom standing in the pocket going through progressions, the only time I've seen him look at 2 without moving is when the 2 guys were lined up together on the same side of the field.

That's not true. Watch plenty of highlights and you'll see that when he has any time to throw, on about half of the plays, he's at least looking off one receiver and throwing to another.

But again, this is a really difficult thing to judge based on what he's given. On well over half of the plays, if the ball isn't out in 3 seconds, he's dead. And on the other half, he's definitely thinking about it. When he's had time to settle in a pocket and has time to lock in, he generally makes good decisions. The accuracy isn't always there, but he generally throws to the right guy. Yesterday was the exception--while I don't think he was making terrible reads, the ball got away from him in a really bad way.

JASONSAUTO
10-26-2009, 06:40 PM
That's not true. Watch plenty of highlights and you'll see that when he has any time to throw, on about half of the plays, he's at least looking off one receiver and throwing to another.

But again, this is a really difficult thing to judge based on what he's given. On well over half of the plays, if the ball isn't out in 3 seconds, he's dead. And on the other half, he's definitely thinking about it. When he's had time to settle in a pocket and has time to lock in, he generally makes good decisions. The accuracy isn't always there, but he generally throws to the right guy. Yesterday was the exception--while I don't think he was making terrible reads, the ball got away from him in a really bad way.


it did, but being that it was the first time it has happened doesnt he deserve the benefit of the doubt. funny that a lot of games were that way yesterday.

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 06:40 PM
Cassel even went big fetal at 1 point yesterday.

I did enjoy how they purposely didn't put in Brodie Croyle to avoid any kind of controversy.

What good does it do for you to start a QB that has no long-term future for you?

As much as you might hate it, Cassel is the best long-term option the Chiefs have. And every game is a learning experience. You have to keep working with him and hope that the light turns on at some point this season. Nothing stupider than having the light turn on for an injury-prone QB who has no chance at being a future option.

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 06:42 PM
croyle has actually shown LESS in his chances though

Not this season

chiefzilla1501
10-26-2009, 06:42 PM
it did, but being that it was the first time it has happened doesnt he deserve the benefit of the doubt. funny that a lot of games were that way yesterday.

I think part of that was the rain, which is a terrible excuse, but it's a little more understandable. But it's not the first time he's misfired. He's done it plenty of times with both the Pats and the Chiefs.

I like Cassel. But I'm not going to pretend this isn't an issue.

Raised On Riots
10-26-2009, 06:42 PM
At this point Cassel hasn't proven he's the guy, the only thing that says he's the guy is his contract and the fat guy up in the box.

I predict "Leaf-age" forthcoming, and lots of it.

Mecca
10-26-2009, 06:43 PM
Cassel is going to start for 4 years, I don't expect them to be much better than this year to be honest with you but it is what it is.

DaneMcCloud
10-26-2009, 06:43 PM
What good does it do for you to start a QB that has no long-term future for you?



So then the "Right 53" IS a catchphrase!