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007
11-09-2009, 11:39 PM
Took my van in for an oil change and wheel alignment today. Oil change was $24.95 and the alignment was $69.95 which would total $94.90. Used a 20% off coupon bringing the total to about $76 before tax. The bill came to $89.90. WTF?

Looked it over and there was a $2 Oil filter disposal fee, why this isn't part of the oil change total cost is beyond me but whatever, not a big deal. But then there is this $5.32 fee with an * for shop supplies. After searching around for what the * meant I found this....

"Shop supply fees cover misc materials used in servicing your vehicle that do not appear elsewhere on this invoice and for profit"

So basically, they can just charge whatever extra fee they want for services that have set fees. WTF???!!!

Phobia
11-09-2009, 11:41 PM
That reminds me, I need to adjust your invoice.

Bugeater
11-09-2009, 11:47 PM
It's complete bullshit, the necessary supplies should already be included in the price of the service as well as the profit. I suppose it's possible they do this whenever someone uses a coupon in order to recoup some of the lost money, but either way it's a shitty way to do business.

007
11-09-2009, 11:51 PM
This is your friendly neighborhood GoodYear Auto Service Center.

I am debating whether to even spend my time disputing this but it really pissed me off.

Bugeater
11-09-2009, 11:58 PM
Probably not worth your time to fight it, but a letter expressing your displeasure and that you'll be taking your business elsewhere in the future may be in order. Or just change your damn oil yourself and **** the alignments. I've only had that done to one vehicle ever.

007
11-10-2009, 12:09 AM
Probably not worth your time to fight it, but a letter expressing your displeasure and that you'll be taking your business elsewhere in the future may be in order. Or just change your damn oil yourself and **** the alignments. I've only had that done to one vehicle ever.I have found that it is worth it to pay for the oil changes anymore. I don't save that much doing it myself and I almost always end up with a drip.

We were getting tons of vibration at 65mph which was not normal so we had to do the alignment. Generally, I would agree with you on that though. Alignments usually are not necessary.

Bugeater
11-10-2009, 12:15 AM
Did the alignment cure the vibration? I thought that was generally caused by a wheel out of balance.

KcMizzou
11-10-2009, 12:19 AM
Did the alignment cure the vibration? I thought that was generally caused by a wheel out of balance.Loose nut behind the wheel. You might also change your 710 cap. (I'll be here all night... tip your waitress.)

007
11-10-2009, 12:41 AM
Did the alignment cure the vibration? I thought that was generally caused by a wheel out of balance.I'll find out later this week when I take it out on the interstate for a spin. They "said" it was pretty far out of alignment, which didn't surprise me.

Loose nut behind the wheel. You might also change your 710 cap. (I'll be here all night... tip your waitress.):doh!:ROFL

LaChapelle
11-10-2009, 12:44 AM
They hit all the grease points

Bugeater
11-10-2009, 12:48 AM
I'll find out later this week when I take it out on the interstate for a spin. They "said" it was pretty far out of alignment, which didn't surprise me.

Let me know how it turns out, I'm kinda curious now, my truck has a vibration at highway speeds and if that will fix it I may buck up and do it. I know my tires are balanced because I just replaced them last spring.

007
11-10-2009, 01:04 AM
Let me know how it turns out, I'm kinda curious now, my truck has a vibration at highway speeds and if that will fix it I may buck up and do it. I know my tires are balanced because I just replaced them last spring.I rotate and balance my tires religiously so I knew it wasn't that.

Hog's Gone Fishin
11-10-2009, 06:53 AM
You should hire a lawyer and go after them.

StcChief
11-10-2009, 06:58 AM
change your own oil. (autozone takes the old oil)
If your keeping the vehicle, get the "lifetime" alignment option for a little more once....

Saulbadguy
11-10-2009, 09:05 AM
Which one did you go to? I generally take my vehicle to the Gregg Tire on 6th and Van Buren.

SAUTO
11-10-2009, 09:43 AM
Took my van in for an oil change and wheel alignment today. Oil change was $24.95 and the alignment was $69.95 which would total $94.90. Used a 20% off coupon bringing the total to about $76 before tax. The bill came to $89.90. WTF?

Looked it over and there was a $2 Oil filter disposal fee, why this isn't part of the oil change total cost is beyond me but whatever, not a big deal. But then there is this $5.32 fee with an * for shop supplies. After searching around for what the * meant I found this....

"Shop supply fees cover misc materials used in servicing your vehicle that do not appear elsewhere on this invoice and for profit"

So basically, they can just charge whatever extra fee they want for services that have set fees. WTF???!!!


some cities have a charge that you have to show separately where the filter went. like on tires theres an excise tax of .50, i cant just write that into the cost, i HAVE to list it separately. why? i dont know and it sucks. i probably have more people mad about that than anything else. hell i have to charge it even if they take their old tires.


shop supplies charge: i jusgt dont do it. that has always seemed shady to me. i just add silicone, cleaners, etc. into the cost of the job. and it's NEVER even 5.00, never.


Usually an alignment will not cause a vibration, it causes tires to wear bad and THAT causes the vibration.


A good way to tell if you need an alignment is if the steering wheel isnt straight anymore. any change in camber caster or toe will effect the steering wheel, so it's a good barometer.

Fish
11-10-2009, 09:56 AM
Isn't worth it to change your own oil?

WTH?

Walmart charges $30 for their cheapest oil change now. You can buy better oil and a better filter than they would use for half that price. How can you say it isn't worth it?

And if you're getting tons of vibration, you probably have a tire that didn't wear evenly and needs replaced. And yes, this can certainly happen despite you claiming to rotate them. Are you noticing other symptoms of bad alignment? Is it pulling a certain direction?

SAUTO
11-10-2009, 10:06 AM
Isn't worth it to change your own oil?

WTH?

Walmart charges $30 for their cheapest oil change now. You can buy better oil and a better filter than they would use for half that price. How can you say it isn't worth it?

And if you're getting tons of vibration, you probably have a tire that didn't wear evenly and needs replaced. And yes, this can certainly happen despite you claiming to rotate them. Are you noticing other symptoms of bad alignment? Is it pulling a certain direction?

85% of the time a pull is caused by a tire in my experience, if the problem started AFTER a rotate i would bet on it being a tire.

mikeyis4dcats.
11-10-2009, 11:35 AM
this is the new way of gigging you. This way they can advertise a $19.95 oil change*



*plus shop fees

joemama
11-10-2009, 12:22 PM
There are shop supplies used during an oil change. Rags which cost a shop a weekly fee. The location of most oil filters is a reason to spray off the excess oil with brake clean or something similar. Depending on how many oil changes to how many rags or cans of cleaner used they could make some profit on the shop supply charge.

cardken
11-10-2009, 12:47 PM
Isn't worth it to change your own oil?

WTH?

Walmart charges $30 for their cheapest oil change now. You can buy better oil and a better filter than they would use for half that price. How can you say it isn't worth it?

And if you're getting tons of vibration, you probably have a tire that didn't wear evenly and needs replaced. And yes, this can certainly happen despite you claiming to rotate them. Are you noticing other symptoms of bad alignment? Is it pulling a certain direction?

All true. The tire thing happened to me recently, first time ever. But totally worth it to change yourself. It's just good "man card" business.

007
11-10-2009, 04:20 PM
For Bugeater.

Took it out on the highway today and the vibration is non-existent now. Alignment solved the problem in this case.

I know everyone is giving me grief about the oil change crap but I don't like crawling around under my car to do that crap. I don't have the supplies nor the space to make it convenient for me. It is worth it to me to have it done. $25 is my limit though. I can almost always find it for the price or less.

I had no idea Walmart was up to $30 now though. That is insane for them.

007
11-10-2009, 04:21 PM
Isn't worth it to change your own oil?

WTH?

Walmart charges $30 for their cheapest oil change now. You can buy better oil and a better filter than they would use for half that price. How can you say it isn't worth it?

And if you're getting tons of vibration, you probably have a tire that didn't wear evenly and needs replaced. And yes, this can certainly happen despite you claiming to rotate them. Are you noticing other symptoms of bad alignment? Is it pulling a certain direction?You know, that really reads wrong to me. I don't claim to rotate them religiously, I DO rotate them religiously.

PastorMikH
11-10-2009, 04:38 PM
Almost all shops do this now. It's a fee they charge to be able to pay for shop towells, cleaners, etc. Dad once told me when he started working on cars in the 60s the shop rate was basically split 50/50 between the mechanic and the shop but now days mechanics who actually do the work on the vehicle see less than 1/4 of the shop's hourly rate.

Now 3/4 of the hourly shop fee isn't enough for them, they have to charge this "Supplies Fee". I asked dad about it a few years back and asked, since mechanics have to provide their own tools, if they could add a "tool wear and tear/replacement charge" to the bill also.

chiefforlife
11-10-2009, 04:45 PM
There is no comparison between a shop in the 50s and 60s to a shop nowadays. No comparison between a mechanic from then to now either.

Shops do NOT make money on oil changes, not much anyway. This is a legit charge and is minimal to cover additional costs of performing the oil change.

PastorMikH
11-10-2009, 04:49 PM
Isn't worth it to change your own oil?

WTH?

Walmart charges $30 for their cheapest oil change now. You can buy better oil and a better filter than they would use for half that price. How can you say it isn't worth it?



Neighbor asked me a while back why I change my own oil when it cost almost as much to buy the oil and filter as it does to go get it changed.

I've had too many problems with quality of work done at those places in the past to keep letting them do my oil changes. I've had oil filters screwed on so tight after paying for an oil change that I litterally crush the filter trying to get it off. I once had gotten the oil changed in an Astro van we used to have. Went to change the oil the next time and couldn't find the fill tube. After looking and looking, I found part of it still going to the block, the other half was laying on the intake manifold. The guy that did the previous change had let the hood fall on a can of oil as it was pouring into the tube. When I bought my Titan I got a coupon for a free oil change. I was back in Missouri last spring and decided to use the coupon. Next time I changed my oil I found the bolts so tight that hold the skid plate on that I actually twisted a bolt head off as I was trying to loosen the bolts.

Yeah, I think I'll just do my own oil changes.

Brock
11-10-2009, 04:50 PM
Heard many times of people driving off down the road and the drain plug falling out. I prefer to do it myself, just so I know it's been done right.

007
11-10-2009, 04:52 PM
There is no comparison between a shop in the 50s and 60s to a shop nowadays. No comparison between a mechanic from then to now either.

Shops do NOT make money on oil changes, not much anyway. This is a legit charge and is minimal to cover additional costs of performing the oil change.I have always had the filter disposal fee but the shop fee is new. I have to imagine it was related to the alignment and not the oil change.

I am tired of the nickel and diming. Put it in the charge or don't charge it at all.

PastorMikH
11-10-2009, 04:57 PM
There is no comparison between a shop in the 50s and 60s to a shop nowadays. No comparison between a mechanic from then to now either.

Shops do NOT make money on oil changes, not much anyway. This is a legit charge and is minimal to cover additional costs of performing the oil change.


Additional costs? When I change my oil, I have 1 towel that gets dirty. Outside of that one towel, there's nothing other than the oil and filter.

Shops don't make money on oil changes, but oil changes lead to money. People bring their car in for an oil change, if they like the service, they come back. Then, when there is a problem with their car, guess where they are going. Not to mention the upselling that takes place. "Sir, we have your oil change done, but we noticed your air filter is looking dirty, would you like to replace it? We also noticed that your tires are wearing oddly, would you like for us to rotate them and check the alignment? Your brake pads look a little thin... " and on and on.

chiefforlife
11-10-2009, 05:02 PM
I have always had the filter disposal fee but the shop fee is new. I have to imagine it was related to the alignment and not the oil change.

I am tired of the nickel and diming. Put it in the charge or don't charge it at all.

I am sure there are some shops that may abuse this fee. It is legal for a reason, it is legitimate. Trust me its no cash cow as it is being made out to be. I think part of it is consumer driven, as you stated earlier, you wont pay for an oil change over 25. Well if the its built into the price that is closer to 30. So the honest guy that builds it into the price, doesnt get your business.

I lose a lot of jobs to mis leading quotes but I still wont do it. A customer calls me up and asks for an estimate on a brake job, I first try and explain no one can give you an accurate quote with out looking at your vehicle. They still insist on an estimate, so I say , if its pads and labor and machining the rotors maybe 150 - 200. They say well I just got quoted 100, so they go there. Now once they are there the guy gets there car apart and says the job is 200. They figure well, it wasnt any cheaper at the other shop and Im already here and my car is apart so I will just let them do it.
I was honest because I already know it wont be 100 but lost the job because the consumer was hoping to get it done for 100.

chiefforlife
11-10-2009, 05:06 PM
Additional costs? When I change my oil, I have 1 towel that gets dirty. Outside of that one towel, there's nothing other than the oil and filter.

Shops don't make money on oil changes, but oil changes lead to money. People bring their car in for an oil change, if they like the service, they come back. Then, when there is a problem with their car, guess where they are going. Not to mention the upselling that takes place. "Sir, we have your oil change done, but we noticed your air filter is looking dirty, would you like to replace it? We also noticed that your tires are wearing oddly, would you like for us to rotate them and check the alignment? Your brake pads look a little thin... " and on and on.

Thats when you are changing your own oil. When we do it, as stated earlier, most cars need to be wiped down with brake cleaner after the service, a new drain plug gasket an oil change sticker, we top off all other fluids and always fill the window washer reservoir.
That stuff costs money guys. Really, this isnt some well thought out scam.

PastorMikH
11-10-2009, 05:07 PM
...I was honest because I already know it wont be 100 but lost the job because the consumer was hoping to get it done for 100.


An honest mechanic will always have work. Dad used to give his best effort to fix the problem right as cheaply as possible and wasn't into the upselling. He had a lot of customers that came to the shop and asked for him specifically to work on their car. Three guys sitting at their benches waiting for work and he gets the job.

PastorMikH
11-10-2009, 05:11 PM
Thats when you are changing your own oil. When we do it, as stated earlier, most cars need to be wiped down with brake cleaner after the service, a new drain plug gasket an oil change sticker, we top off all other fluids and always fill the window washer reservoir.
That stuff costs money guys. Really, this isnt some well thought out scam.


If you are doing all of that, it's a bit different. A lot of the discount oil change places don't. Dad's shop used to do all of that as well - including having guys that did nothing but wash cars that went out of the shop. But like I said, the service was to get the customer coming back to your shop not someone elses.

chiefforlife
11-10-2009, 05:15 PM
If you are doing all of that, it's a bit different. A lot of the discount oil change places don't. Dad's shop used to do all of that as well - including having guys that did nothing but wash cars that went out of the shop. But like I said, the service was to get the customer coming back to your shop not someone elses.

Exactly, I dont make money on oil changes. I like to do it because I can develop a relationship with the customer, I get to see the vehicle every 3-5 thousand miles. I can also develop a service history for the car and the customer.

The shop supplies fee is for that other stuff, I know it sucks but it is a real cost that is past along to the consumer. (guru).

PastorMikH
11-10-2009, 05:28 PM
Chiefforlife, you work at a dealership or have your own shop?

chiefforlife
11-10-2009, 05:35 PM
Chiefforlife, you work at a dealership or have your own shop?

My own shop.

stevieray
11-10-2009, 05:39 PM
My own shop.

where?

chiefforlife
11-10-2009, 05:43 PM
where?

Longmont Colorado.

Bugeater
11-10-2009, 06:19 PM
Neighbor asked me a while back why I change my own oil when it cost almost as much to buy the oil and filter as it does to go get it changed.

I've had too many problems with quality of work done at those places in the past to keep letting them do my oil changes. I've had oil filters screwed on so tight after paying for an oil change that I litterally crush the filter trying to get it off. I once had gotten the oil changed in an Astro van we used to have. Went to change the oil the next time and couldn't find the fill tube. After looking and looking, I found part of it still going to the block, the other half was laying on the intake manifold. The guy that did the previous change had let the hood fall on a can of oil as it was pouring into the tube. When I bought my Titan I got a coupon for a free oil change. I was back in Missouri last spring and decided to use the coupon. Next time I changed my oil I found the bolts so tight that hold the skid plate on that I actually twisted a bolt head off as I was trying to loosen the bolts.

Yeah, I think I'll just do my own oil changes.
Oh yes, this grinds my gears, and is one of the biggest reasons I don't like to take my vehicles in for oil changes. There is NOTHING worse than laying under a vehicle and fighting a filter that is torqued down to 375 lb-ft when the darn thing should only be hand tightened. Oil filter wrenches are the most useless tool ever and should be outlawed.

007
11-10-2009, 07:06 PM
An honest mechanic will always have work. Dad used to give his best effort to fix the problem right as cheaply as possible and wasn't into the upselling. He had a lot of customers that came to the shop and asked for him specifically to work on their car. Three guys sitting at their benches waiting for work and he gets the job.I wish I could find somebody like that here in Topeka.

HemiEd
11-10-2009, 07:07 PM
Oh yes, this grinds my gears, and is one of the biggest reasons I don't like to take my vehicles in for oil changes. There is NOTHING worse than laying under a vehicle and fighting a filter that is torqued down to 375 lb-ft when the darn thing should only be hand tightened. Oil filter wrenches are the most useless tool ever and should be outlawed.

Yeah, they usually give that job to entry level guys. The last straw for me, was about 10 years ago, when I had the trans fluid and filter changed on my LHS.
When I went to do it myself next time, half the bolts on the pan were only snug, and the rest needed a breakover to get them loose.

Then, recently, I decided to trust my selling dealer on my new Challenger to change the oil.
Dodge is very specific about 5w20 for the proper function of the MDS from the factory. So when they were all done, I verified with the mechanic that he put in 5-20.
He said no, 5w30 since he didn't have any synthetic 5w20. This is the top mechanic, for the #1 Viper dealer in the world!

I drove it home and changed it, even though they charged me $90. (holds 7 quarts. I got my $90 back from the owner of the company.

I am cured, until I am just too feeble to do it myself.

Skip Towne
11-10-2009, 07:14 PM
Oh yes, this grinds my gears, and is one of the biggest reasons I don't like to take my vehicles in for oil changes. There is NOTHING worse than laying under a vehicle and fighting a filter that is torqued down to 375 lb-ft when the darn thing should only be hand tightened. Oil filter wrenches are the most useless tool ever and should be outlawed.

They will have to pry my filter wrench out of my cold dead hands. I don't use it to tighten the filter but need it to get the old one off.

mlyonsd
11-10-2009, 07:18 PM
They will have to pry my filter wrench out of my cold dead hands. I don't use it to tighten the filter but need it to get the old one off.

Exactly. That's the only reason they were invented. Spin the new one on until it hits, then 1/4 turn by hand.

Under pressure they can suck down tighter, hence, why the wrench was invented.

Bugeater
11-10-2009, 07:25 PM
They will have to pry my filter wrench out of my cold dead hands. I don't use it to tighten the filter but need it to get the old one off.
You're still putting it on too tight, I have never had a problem removing an oil filter by hand that I installed myself.

PastorMikH
11-10-2009, 08:46 PM
I wish I could find somebody like that here in Topeka.


Heh, dad's retired. He's not even available at the shop he used to work at anymore.

:)

PastorMikH
11-10-2009, 08:54 PM
You're still putting it on too tight, I have never had a problem removing an oil filter by hand that I installed myself.


My Titan is usually tighter than I can untighten by hand due to the angle, size of filter, and other stuff in the way that keeps me from getting a good grip on it.

Have several of those types of wrenches that go on the end of a 3/8 ratchet. They sure work better than the old slip wrenches did.