PDA

View Full Version : Money Banks need customer consent for overdrafts


Pestilence
11-13-2009, 12:45 PM
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SmartSpending/blog/page.aspx?post=1381789&_blg=1,1381789

Banks need customer consent for overdrafts

Starting in July, debit and ATM charges that overdraw accounts will be denied.

Posted by Ryan MacClanathan on Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:10 PM
In a win for consumers, banks will have to secure customers' consent before charging exorbitant overdraft fees on ATM and debit card transactions, The Associated Press reports.

In other words: No more $35 charges against customers who accidentally overdraw their accounts for a $4 latte.

The new Federal Reserve rules announced Thursday require banks to notify customers of their overdraft services and give customers the option of being covered. If customers don't "opt in," any debit or ATM transactions that overdraw their accounts will be denied.

The changes take effect July 1. Overdrafts fees for checks and electronic payments are not prohibited by the new rules. Details can be found here (http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/press/bcreg/20091112a.htm).

Fed officials say banks earn as much as $25 billion to $38 billion annually from overdraft fees, the AP reported. That total includes check overdrafts.

"The final overdraft rules represent an important step forward in consumer protection," said Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke. "New and existing account holders will be able to make informed decisions about whether to sign up for an overdraft service."

Mr. Laz
11-13-2009, 12:47 PM
rejecting the withdrawal in the first place seems more fair than charging a huge fee imo.

mikey23545
11-13-2009, 12:51 PM
rejecting the withdrawal in the first place seems more fair than charging a huge fee imo.

Exactly.

Stewie
11-13-2009, 12:51 PM
The Federal Reserve doesn't give a darn about bank customers. This is fodder for the media and the sheeple that "we're doing something" to help the little man. It's a joke.

Hey, Federal Reserve! Why don't you change rules that cost trillion$ instead of $25-$38 billion. That's a pittance.

BIG_DADDY
11-13-2009, 01:12 PM
The Federal Reserve doesn't give a darn about bank customers. This is fodder for the media and the sheeple that "we're doing something" to help the little man. It's a joke.

Hey, Federal Reserve! Why don't you change rules that cost trillion$ instead of $25-$38 billion. That's a pittance.

This

Mr. Laz
11-13-2009, 01:25 PM
The Federal Reserve doesn't give a darn about bank customers. This is fodder for the media and the sheeple that "we're doing something" to help the little man. It's a joke.

Hey, Federal Reserve! Why don't you change rules that cost trillion$ instead of $25-$38 billion. That's a pittance.
so does that mean you don't want this? I'm sure the banks will allow you to keep paying the overdraft penalty.

Stewie
11-13-2009, 01:30 PM
so does that mean you don't want this? I'm sure the banks will allow you to keep paying the overdraft penalty.

My point is that this is a distraction. "We'll save you a nickel here, and you'll lose thousands there." Yes, it's good, but it's like putting a band-aid on a cut while cancer is ravaging the rest.

Fritz88
11-13-2009, 02:29 PM
The Federal Reserve doesn't give a darn about bank customers. This is fodder for the media and the sheeple that "we're doing something" to help the little man. It's a joke.

Hey, Federal Reserve! Why don't you change rules that cost trillion$ instead of $25-$38 billion. That's a pittance.

banks make a lot of money out of these overdrafts..

Mr. Laz
11-13-2009, 02:32 PM
My point is that this is a distraction. "We'll save you a nickel here, and you'll lose thousands there." Yes, it's good, but it's like putting a band-aid on a cut while cancer is ravaging the rest.
oh, i understand.

The reality is that the banks pretty much own the government and will until we cut a) the blank check debt system we have b) eliminate legalize bribery that we have now where special interest can literally buy votes from the members of congress


but hey ... positive things are so few and far between i'll take this.

PunkinDrublic
11-13-2009, 03:03 PM
My old bank used to just decline transactions when the money wasn't in my account. Then they put the overdraft protection on my account without my permission and didn't bother to inform me. On top of that they have bullshit fees like foreign ATM fee which charges $5 on top of the ATM fee you're already paying (It's a regional bank so if I was out of town I would have to pay $8 to get cash)

I'm not saying more doesn't need to be done but banks were getting away big time with gouging consumers with fees. They knew what they were doing that's why they were employing practices like making sure your largest transaction process first so they could ring up as many NSF fees as possible.

penchief
11-13-2009, 04:03 PM
My point is that this is a distraction. "We'll save you a nickel here, and you'll lose thousands there." Yes, it's good, but it's like putting a band-aid on a cut while cancer is ravaging the rest.

Without trying to detract from your other claims, I think it is a little more than just a band-aid. As a practice it is fundamentally dishonest and emblematic of the bigger picture. It is basically a way of scamming free money. And unfortunately, the free money ethic is what has been driving the Wall Street economy for some time now. In turn, the fake Wall Street economy has been driving the country's economy rather than tangible economic factors.

No, it doesn't solve the bigger picture but it is clearly a step in the right direction when it comes to holding financial institutions, big business, and Wall Street accountable for practices that exploit the consumer in search of free money. In that aspect it affects everyday people who can least afford to be victims of gouging.

It may appear to be only a shot across the bow but I think it sends the right message to the money-for-nothing crowd. My hope is that it is the first in a series of measures that turns back the tide of usury and exploitative business practices which have undermined our country and its economy.

Stewie
11-13-2009, 04:08 PM
Without trying to detract from your other claims, I think it is a little more than just a band-aid. As a practice it is fundamentally dishonest and emblematic of the bigger picture.

It is a dishonest $30 billion problem. People cheer for this and ignore the $20 trillion dishonest problem.

Royal Fanatic
11-13-2009, 04:09 PM
The Federal Reserve doesn't give a darn about bank customers. This is fodder for the media and the sheeple that "we're doing something" to help the little man. It's a joke.

Hey, Federal Reserve! Why don't you change rules that cost trillion$ instead of $25-$38 billion. That's a pittance.
$25-38 billion here, $25-38 billion there, pretty soon you're talking about real money.

Ari Chi3fs
11-13-2009, 04:11 PM
Balance your checkbook...

bowener
11-13-2009, 05:56 PM
rejecting the withdrawal in the first place seems more fair than charging a huge fee imo.

I have a small town bank, and this is what they do. I just get the embarrassing denial of service and off I walk.

This is pretty sweet IMHO, banks need to be banks, not butt fuckers.

bowener
11-13-2009, 06:02 PM
Without trying to detract from your other claims, I think it is a little more than just a band-aid. As a practice it is fundamentally dishonest and emblematic of the bigger picture. It is basically a way of scamming free money. And unfortunately, the free money ethic is what has been driving the Wall Street economy for some time now. In turn, the fake Wall Street economy has been driving the country's economy rather than tangible economic factors.

No, it doesn't solve the bigger picture but it is clearly a step in the right direction when it comes to holding financial institutions, big business, and Wall Street accountable for practices that exploit the consumer in search of free money. In that aspect it affects everyday people who can least afford to be victims of gouging.

It may appear to be only a shot across the bow but I think it sends the right message to the money-for-nothing crowd. My hope is that it is the first in a series of measures that turns back the tide of usury and exploitative business practices which have undermined our country and its economy.

I like this post.

Today's banks and credit system seem like an ultra modern, extra shiny debtors prison. Lets say I get some sickness, preexisting no less, now I have to pay for medical bills that I cannot afford, $200,000, and quit my job to get treatment daily. I sell my house and file for bankruptcy. Now I am homeless, jobless, practically dying, and my credit is fucked and following me to job interviews; I no longer have insurance, I cant get hired, and I cant get a loan for a house.

Hypothetically, I should have just saved myself the time and pain and spent $200 bucks on a 10-gauge at Walmart, borrowed a single shell from a friend and blown my fucking head off.

notorious
11-13-2009, 06:07 PM
I worked at bank in T-Town for 5 years. They released an overdraft list every day that was miles long, multiply every one of them by $20 (back then) and you have millions of income every year for that particular bank.

Every customer that came in blamed us for their lack of balancing their checkbook.

Cry me a river. Be responsible and know how much money you have available.

Don't blame anyone else for your mistakes.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-13-2009, 07:25 PM
Does anyone get that this just means they will make this money somewhere else? This is a stupid tax. If you aren't smart enough to balance your checkbook, then too bad.

This means they will pay less interest on savings, or charge more for loans, or maybe, not have free checking.

Here is a novel idea... you don't like paying the fee? DON'T OVERDRAFT YOUR ACCOUNT!

SenselessChiefsFan
11-13-2009, 07:25 PM
I worked at bank in T-Town for 5 years. They released an overdraft list every day that was miles long, multiply every one of them by $20 (back then) and you have millions of income every year for that particular bank.

Every customer that came in blamed us for their lack of balancing their checkbook.

Cry me a river. Be responsible and know how much money you have available.

Don't blame anyone else for your mistakes.

THIS!

SenselessChiefsFan
11-13-2009, 07:33 PM
I like this post.

Today's banks and credit system seem like an ultra modern, extra shiny debtors prison. Lets say I get some sickness, preexisting no less, now I have to pay for medical bills that I cannot afford, $200,000, and quit my job to get treatment daily. I sell my house and file for bankruptcy. Now I am homeless, jobless, practically dying, and my credit is ****ed and following me to job interviews; I no longer have insurance, I cant get hired, and I cant get a loan for a house.

Hypothetically, I should have just saved myself the time and pain and spent $200 bucks on a 10-gauge at Walmart, borrowed a single shell from a friend and blown my ****ing head off.

Well, if you have medical insurance, then you will be covered. Get insurance now, then there won't be any 'pre existing' problems.

Oh, and go ahead and get dissability insurance. That way, if you do get sick, you will still have an income.

Your job can't fire you for being sick, so don't quit, that will still allow you to have insurance. You can take a medical leave of absence. They won't pay you, but you will have disability insurance.

You can still sell your house, and downsize, but you won't 'have' to because you have been responsible and made good decisions.

But, if you are like most, you will do none of this, and then expect the government to bail you out for your poor planning. You will go around jobless complaining how it isn't fair and you will blame everyone else.

I wish those that wouldn't handle life responsibly would take your advice and get a gun and blow their head off.... it would reduce my taxes....

I don't understand why the government chooses to punish the people who actually produce in this economy and then reward the parasites who offer nothing.

Ahh... but I digress.... great, the banks won't charge overdraft fees to stupid people who aren't responsible enough to balance their checkbooks.... and now the world is a much, much better place.

Mr. Laz
11-13-2009, 08:25 PM
Does anyone get that this just means they will make this money somewhere else? This is a stupid tax. If you aren't smart enough to balance your checkbook, then too bad.

This means they will pay less interest on savings, or charge more for loans, or maybe, not have free checking.

Here is a novel idea... you don't like paying the fee? DON'T OVERDRAFT YOUR ACCOUNT!
WTF are you talking about ... what tax.

this just keeping Banks from screwing with people ... same as the law that is supposed to keep Tow companies from raping people.

nothing wrong with letting people have a choice whether they have denial of payment or overdraw.

JohninGpt
11-13-2009, 08:29 PM
I'm in sales these days, and I would much rather tell someone that their check is declined than try to chase their deadbeat asses down for payment. Looks like a win for vendor and consumers, a lose for the banks. Screw the banks.

RJ
11-13-2009, 08:35 PM
A $4 latte?

Sounds like an effete, foreign car driving, PBS watching liberal. Let him pay the overdraft, he hates America.

RJ
11-13-2009, 08:39 PM
Ahh... but I digress.... great, the banks won't charge overdraft fees to stupid people who aren't responsible enough to balance their checkbooks.... and now the world is a much, much better place.


Yep. To hell in a handbasket.

Bacon Cheeseburger
11-13-2009, 08:55 PM
OK, some of you fuggers need to realize there are other reasons that checks bounce, quite a few years ago I had an employer's paycheck bounce on me, which in turn caused a bunch of checks I wrote to bounce. It took me a month to sort all that shit out, and I don't know wtf this article is talking about anyway because the bank didn't pay them for me, I had pissed off people calling me up asking me wtf was going on.

JohninGpt
11-13-2009, 09:00 PM
OK, some of you fuggers need to realize there are other reasons that checks bounce, quite a few years ago I had an employer's paycheck bounce on me, which in turn caused a bunch of checks I wrote to bounce. It took me a month to sort all that shit out, and I don't know wtf this article is talking about anyway because the bank didn't pay them for me, I had pissed off people calling me up asking me wtf was going on.

That's the kind of crap I want to avoid. I run my customers checks through the NCT machine, but I still end up having them slip through occasionally. When they do, I have to chase them down for payment. That crap is embarassing for me and the customer. If there is a way to avoid that crap, I'm all for it.

Bacon Cheeseburger
11-13-2009, 09:07 PM
That's the kind of crap I want to avoid. I run my customers checks through the NCT machine, but I still end up having them slip through occasionally. When they do, I have to chase them down for payment. That crap is embarassing for me and the customer. If there is a way to avoid that crap, I'm all for it.
I don't know if that would help, because when I deposited the check in my bank the money was in there for quite a few days, until my employer's check was returned and then they took the money back out, and all my checks were already on the way to my bank. There was no stopping it at that point.

JohninGpt
11-13-2009, 09:11 PM
I don't know if that would help, because when I deposited the check in my bank the money was in there for quite a few days, until my employer's check was returned and then they took the money back out, and all my checks were already on the way to my bank. There was no stopping it at that point.

Wow, you just got completely fooked. I use the same bank as my employer (BOA), so I would hope that my paycheck goes straight from one account to the other, and they shouldn't be able to put the shit back in the goose.

ROYC75
11-13-2009, 09:17 PM
When your income comes from multiple sources, it makes it tough if some customer gives you a cold check. It does cause a domino effect within my business that at times makes me look bad. I've had as small as $ 400.00 and as big as $ 5000.00 hit me at times. It makes your bank back up and say ,Hold on here a bit, we have to put a hold on all your inbound checks for 7 days . I told my last bank to screw themselves, I need a bank that works with me in times of trouble due to troubling times.

This whole world is just plain wacky anymore.

ClevelandBronco
11-13-2009, 09:21 PM
...Your job can't fire you for being sick...

Depends on where you live and who you work for, I guess. Unless I misunderstand current law in Colorado, an employer can fire an employee for health reasons.

Hell, an employer here can fire an employee for almost any reason or no reason at all unless the employee is covered under a collective bargaining agreement.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-14-2009, 06:11 AM
WTF are you talking about ... what tax.

this just keeping Banks from screwing with people ... same as the law that is supposed to keep Tow companies from raping people.

nothing wrong with letting people have a choice whether they have denial of payment or overdraw.


It is what I call a stupid tax. If you are too stupid to balance your checkbook, then you pay that 'fee'.

The reality is that the banks are going to make the money somehow, and this will just end up costing me more money, because they are going to make the money somewhere.

This will also decrease the incentive for people to keep a balanced checkbook.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-14-2009, 06:13 AM
I'm in sales these days, and I would much rather tell someone that their check is declined than try to chase their deadbeat asses down for payment. Looks like a win for vendor and consumers, a lose for the banks. Screw the banks.

But, this has nothing to do with the checks. It is debit card transactions, and I am sure that you had no problems with that.

In fact, now that people have less incentive to keep a balanced checkbook, you may have more people write bad checks out of sheer ignorance.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-14-2009, 06:17 AM
OK, some of you fuggers need to realize there are other reasons that checks bounce, quite a few years ago I had an employer's paycheck bounce on me, which in turn caused a bunch of checks I wrote to bounce. It took me a month to sort all that shit out, and I don't know wtf this article is talking about anyway because the bank didn't pay them for me, I had pissed off people calling me up asking me wtf was going on.

The actual percentage of the time that someone writes a bad check because their paycheck is bad? I would think that is less than 1%. Additionally, you could then sue your employer for the overdraft fees. And, honestly, if it is any kind of employer at all, they should offer to pay those.

Also, with today's online banking, there NO excuse for ofterdrafting and account.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-14-2009, 06:21 AM
Depends on where you live and who you work for, I guess. Unless I misunderstand current law in Colorado, an employer can fire an employee for health reasons.

Hell, an employer here can fire an employee for almost any reason or no reason at all unless the employee is covered under a collective bargaining agreement.


I think you could fight it..... but, to be sure, some employers may try to fire you for 'cause' and trump up reasons.

Then you could claim bankruptcy due to medical reasons, still keep your house, and live off the dissability income.

I am not saying that people don't get screwed. My point is that people don't do enough for themselves and then go around blaming everyone else for their misfortune.

patteeu
11-14-2009, 08:21 AM
so does that mean you don't want this? I'm sure the banks will allow you to keep paying the overdraft penalty.

Has anyone given any thought to what the payees are going to start doing to you when your checks start bouncing?

talastan
11-14-2009, 08:31 AM
I work for a bank, and we just got news of this new regulation. This doesn't really eliminate NSF (Non sufficent funds) charges. It just means that when you open an account the bank must educate the new customer of the bank's available overdraft options and get the customers permission or refusal before enrolling them in any of the overdraft programs. You'll still be charged fees if you bounce checks. Simple solution: balance your checkbook every month. Even if you can't overdraw your account with a debit or ATM card how inconvienent will it be for those can't pay for anything because they don't have any other payment option with them. After all it isn't the banks responsiblity to keep track of your money and contrary to popular belief they aren't a not-for-profit organization. :D

notorious
11-14-2009, 08:58 AM
I work for a bank, and we just got news of this new regulation. This doesn't really eliminate NSF (Non sufficent funds) charges. It just means that when you open an account the bank must educate the new customer of the bank's available overdraft options and get the customers permission or refusal before enrolling them in any of the overdraft programs. You'll still be charged fees if you bounce checks. Simple solution: balance your checkbook every month. Even if you can't overdraw your account with a debit or ATM card how inconvienent will it be for those can't pay for anything because they don't have any other payment option with them. After all it isn't the banks responsiblity to keep track of your money and contrary to popular belief they aren't a not-for-profit organization. :D


The bank I worked at offered the option 13 years ago.

This won't change a thing. People will still overdraft checks and then proceed to blame everyone else except for the one that is at fault:

Themselves. (99.9% of the time, bugeater)

Bacon Cheeseburger
11-14-2009, 09:11 AM
Geez, it's pretty easy to tell who works for the banks in this thread. It still doesn't matter, people make mistakes. Maybe a spouse forgets to mention an atm withdrawal, or someone inadvertently hits the wrong button on a calculator, it doesn't mean they deserve to have their asses nailed to the wall over it. The people who this happens to are often the ones who can least afford it.

jjjayb
11-14-2009, 09:29 AM
Balance your checkbook...

The answer to this whole problem. And it didn't need legislation to resolve.

notorious
11-14-2009, 09:40 AM
Geez, it's pretty easy to tell who works for the banks in this thread. It still doesn't matter, people make mistakes. Maybe a spouse forgets to mention an atm withdrawal, or someone inadvertently hits the wrong button on a calculator, it doesn't mean they deserve to have their asses nailed to the wall over it. The people who this happens to are often the ones who can least afford it.

I have not worked for the bank in 8 years. It was a good job to have while I went through flight school.

Sorry Bugeater, I have had my ass chewed for other people's dumbassery when it comes to balancing the checkbook too many times.

I have zero tolerance for other people's FIXABLE problems.

And yes, I have overdrawn my account. But it was MY FAULT, not the bank's fault, not the strip club ATM's fault, MY FAULT.

talastan
11-14-2009, 09:49 AM
Geez, it's pretty easy to tell who works for the banks in this thread. It still doesn't matter, people make mistakes. Maybe a spouse forgets to mention an atm withdrawal, or someone inadvertently hits the wrong button on a calculator, it doesn't mean they deserve to have their asses nailed to the wall over it. The people who this happens to are often the ones who can least afford it.

That is why most banks will allow for an occasional "courtesy fee waive". I feel for anyone going through a hard time but unfortunately most people who get nailed to the wall as you say, they are generally repeat offenders. Regardless of the situation you are responsible for your money.

jidar
11-14-2009, 10:24 AM
The Federal Reserve doesn't give a darn about bank customers. This is fodder for the media and the sheeple that "we're doing something" to help the little man. It's a joke.

Hey, Federal Reserve! Why don't you change rules that cost trillion$ instead of $25-$38 billion. That's a pittance.

Translation: I'm going to be a partisan political hack even if I have to cut off my own nose to do it.


Hey dipshit, the fact of the matter is that I rarely see any type of changes in Washington that impact me in a direct and positive way so I'm thrilled by this news and I don't care who is responsible. (er.. actually I haven't overdrafted in well over a decade... but it's a constant worry)

jidar
11-14-2009, 10:26 AM
I have not worked for the bank in 8 years. It was a good job to have while I went through flight school.

Sorry Bugeater, I have had my ass chewed for other people's dumbassery when it comes to balancing the checkbook too many times.

I have zero tolerance for other people's FIXABLE problems.

And yes, I have overdrawn my account. But it was MY FAULT, not the bank's fault, not the strip club ATM's fault, MY FAULT.

It doesn't matter who's fault it was. The fact is that if you overdraw your account the bank knows it the moment it happens. They don't HAVE to honor the contract and then hit you with a big fee, they do it because they want to make money on your mistake, and that's bullshit.

talastan
11-14-2009, 10:43 AM
It doesn't matter who's fault it was. The fact is that if you overdraw your account the bank knows it the moment it happens. They don't HAVE to honor the contract and then hit you with a big fee, they do it because they want to make money on your mistake, and that's bullshit.

Sorry friend but if you overdraw your account you violate the contract that you will maintain a positive balance in your account. Check out the disclosures on the back of your signature card on file at your bank sometime. It isn't BS, it is business and I'm sorry but you can always just keep cash and not use a bank or go to a Credit Union and see if they won't charge NSF fees.

notorious
11-14-2009, 10:49 AM
they do it because they want to make money on your mistake, and that's bullshit.


Oh my God, what has happened to personal responsibility?

Last time I checked, banks are not UNICEF

Oh well, if more people think the way you do, that just gives my daughter a lot better chance to succeed since a majority of people want to cry about getting taken advantage of and blaming everyone else for their own mistakes. Teach your kids that, so that my kid can "take advantage" of them. PLEASE.

BTW, they are not "hidden fees". Everybody knows you get dinged if you spend money YOU DON'T HAVE!

The sky is blue, water is wet, women have secrets.

Get a clue. Please.

.

PunkinDrublic
11-14-2009, 12:12 PM
Oh my God, what has happened to personal responsibility?

Last time I checked, banks are not UNICEF

Oh well, if more people think the way you do, that just gives my daughter a lot better chance to succeed since a majority of people want to cry about getting taken advantage of and blaming everyone else for their own mistakes. Teach your kids that, so that my kid can "take advantage" of them. PLEASE.

BTW, they are not "hidden fees". Everybody knows you get dinged if you spend money YOU DON'T HAVE!

The sky is blue, water is wet, women have secrets.

Get a clue. Please.

.

I balance my checkbook fine but when a bank takes it upon itself to put overdraft protection on my account without my permission that's when they lose my business. Charging $35 fee for going over by a few bucks is equal to or worse than loansharking IMO. It's the banks privelage to hold my money and get my direct deposit not the other way around if they abuse that privalege I'll go with another bank.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-14-2009, 12:14 PM
It is what I call a stupid tax. If you are too stupid to balance your checkbook, then you pay that 'fee'.

The reality is that the banks are going to make the money somehow, and this will just end up costing me more money, because they are going to make the money somewhere.

This will also decrease the incentive for people to keep a balanced checkbook.

They should change the name to the Mepublican party.

Mr. Laz
11-14-2009, 12:17 PM
It is what I call a stupid tax. If you are too stupid to balance your checkbook, then you pay that 'fee'.

The reality is that the banks are going to make the money somehow, and this will just end up costing me more money, because they are going to make the money somewhere.

This will also decrease the incentive for people to keep a balanced checkbook.
i bet you are one of these guys that say companies shouldn't be fined for dumping Toxic Waste because they just pass the cost on to the consumer.

:shake:

patteeu
11-14-2009, 01:42 PM
It doesn't matter who's fault it was. The fact is that if you overdraw your account the bank knows it the moment it happens. They don't HAVE to honor the contract and then hit you with a big fee, they do it because they want to make money on your mistake, and that's bullshit.

Are people completely oblivious to the way retailers and other payees used to hammer customers whose checks bounced before overdraft protection became common? Banks aren't the only side of this equation and the fees you pay banks for overdraft protection are protecting you from problems with your creditors. Wait until the day when you bounce a check to your credit card company. :shake:

phillip
11-14-2009, 01:52 PM
Are people completely oblivious to the way retailers and other payees used to hammer customers whose checks bounced before overdraft protection became common? Banks aren't the only side of this equation and the fees you pay banks for overdraft protection are protecting you from problems with your creditors. Wait until the day when you bounce a check to your credit card company. :shake:

What's a check?

SenselessChiefsFan
11-14-2009, 01:55 PM
i bet you are one of these guys that say companies shouldn't be fined for dumping Toxic Waste because they just pass the cost on to the consumer.

:shake:

No, I have common sense

notorious
11-14-2009, 02:04 PM
i bet you are one of these guys that say companies shouldn't be fined for dumping Toxic Waste because they just pass the cost on to the consumer.

:shake:

I don't see how that has anything to do with overdraft fees ROFL.


A business will charge you a HELL of a lot more then $35 bucks if you bounce a check on them. Last time I checked it was a 50-$60 fee.


Usually I can see the other side of an argument, but not in this instance.


Decline the bank's offer of overdraft (which the option is written in your contract anyway), and bounce a check at Best Buy or your favorite eating establishment. Then you can start to blame them instead of the bank for your stupidity and how they charged you a crazy amount for your own mistake.

Bacon Cheeseburger
11-14-2009, 02:08 PM
I have not worked for the bank in 8 years. It was a good job to have while I went through flight school.

Sorry Bugeater, I have had my ass chewed for other people's dumbassery when it comes to balancing the checkbook too many times.

I have zero tolerance for other people's FIXABLE problems.

And yes, I have overdrawn my account. But it was MY FAULT, not the bank's fault, not the strip club ATM's fault, MY FAULT.
Did it ever occur to you that they're not blaming you for their mistake, they're bitching about the system that just digs them into a bigger hole for that mistake? This is nothing but another predatory tactic by banks that targets low income people that cannot keep a big enough cushion in their accounts to cover their asses in the event something happens. But you just keep telling yourself whatever it is that you need to tell yourself in order to sleep at night. After all, it's also their fault that they're poor, right?

Mr. Flopnuts
11-14-2009, 02:11 PM
What on Earth is anyone's reasoning for not allowing consumers to CHOOSE overdraft protection? Does anyone actually think that banks just did this without informing their customers to be nice? And if so, please explain why the bank is more than happy to ding your account for a couple of bucks to charge you 35, but won't ding your account 250 to charge you 35?

notorious
11-14-2009, 02:13 PM
Did it ever occur to you that they're not blaming you for their mistake, they're bitching about the system that just digs them into a bigger hole for that mistake? This is nothing but another predatory tactic by banks that targets low income people that cannot keep a big enough cushion in their accounts to cover their asses in the event something happens. But you just keep telling yourself whatever it is that you need to tell yourself in order to sleep at night. After all, it's also their fault that they're poor, right?

Holy shit. I used to be a poor farm boy, but guess what, I worked my ass off to get to where I am, and took responsibility for my finances.

You don't see me pointing fingers at others for my problems.

Take that poor talk and stick it up your ass.

notorious
11-14-2009, 02:18 PM
What on Earth is anyone's reasoning for not allowing consumers to CHOOSE overdraft protection? Does anyone actually think that banks just did this without informing their customers to be nice? And if so, please explain why the bank is more than happy to ding your account for a couple of bucks to charge you 35, but won't ding your account 250 to charge you 35?

Nothing wrong with the choice. It's great that they are making the banks do it instead of hiding it in small print.


What most of us are debating is who is to blame for over-drawing an account.

You have the blame everyone but myself side.

The other side is for taking responibility for your own finances and paying the consequences if you don't.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-14-2009, 02:22 PM
Nothing wrong with the choice. It's great that they are making the banks do it instead of hiding it in small print.


What most of us are debating is who is to blame for over-drawing an account.

You have the blame everyone but myself side.

The other side is for taking responibility for your own finances and paying the consequences if you don't.

Dude I work in credit. All I do every day is preach fiscal responsibility. Show me where I said anything remotely close to it was the bank's fault that people are too lazy to balance their checkbook. You can't. I'm simply responding to the minority in this thread that thinks it's perfectly okay for the banks to pick and choose where they lob those $35 bombs. Because that's bullshit.

notorious
11-14-2009, 02:26 PM
Dude I work in credit. All I do every day is preach fiscal responsibility. Show me where I said anything remotely close to it was the bank's fault that people are too lazy to balance their checkbook. You can't. I'm simply responding to the minority in this thread that thinks it's perfectly okay for the banks to pick and choose where they lob those $35 bombs. Because that's bullshit.

I agree with you except on the picking and choosing the overdraft fees. Our system was automated, so everyone that went over got hit.

notorious
11-14-2009, 02:29 PM
In one instance I got a checking account in a bank that did screw me by taking debits out before crediting the account from deposits for the day.

That was a very dishonest practice.

Credits always go in before debits go out in a days business. Explained it to a Dep Counselor who didn't know shit and didn't do shit about it, so I abruptly closed my account and went elsewhere.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-14-2009, 02:30 PM
I agree with you except on the picking and choosing the overdraft fees. Our system was automated, so everyone that went over got hit.

Right, but if it goes over too much the bank will just decline the charge and no harm no foul. Basically, if you overdraw your account by a dollar or two the bank is more than willing to pay that off and charge the fee. But when a charge goes through that is $50 or more then the bank would just decline the charge and not charge you the fee. They're playing with a stacked deck.

notorious
11-14-2009, 02:34 PM
Right, but if it goes over too much the bank will just decline the charge and no harm no foul. Basically, if you overdraw your account by a dollar or two the bank is more than willing to pay that off and charge the fee. But when a charge goes through that is $50 or more then the bank would just decline the charge and not charge you the fee. They're playing with a stacked deck.

Bingo. Got it. Just about forgot about that "We will cover you for a while, then start to decline" rule.

But all of that information is in the checking contract that nobody reads.

Once again, the charges by the businesses that received the bad checks are going to hit the consumer a lot harder then the bank does.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-14-2009, 02:35 PM
In one instance I got a checking account in a bank that did screw me by taking debits out before crediting the account from deposits for the day.

That was a very dishonest practice.

Credits always go in before debits go out in a days business. Explained it to a Dep Counselor who didn't know shit and didn't do shit about it, so I abruptly closed my account and went elsewhere.

Phobia summed it up best. If you want proof that banks are full of crooks, try and name another industry that doesn't provide a tangible good that can afford to have a brick and mortar branch on almost every corner of America.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-14-2009, 02:36 PM
Bingo. Got it. Just about forgot about that "We will cover you for a while, then start to decline" rule.

But all of that information is in the checking contract that nobody reads.

Once again, the charges by the businesses that received the bad checks are going to hit the consumer a lot harder then the bank does.

Well, I'm only really talking about debit card purchases. Checks have become more and more irrelevant and this whole practice came as a way of making up some of those lost NSF fees.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-14-2009, 02:37 PM
And I definitely don't disagree with your notion that people screw up because they don't read contracts. It's another lazy practice that costs people a lot of money.

notorious
11-14-2009, 02:41 PM
Phobia summed it up best. If you want proof that banks are full of crooks, try and name another industry that doesn't provide a tangible good that can afford to have a brick and mortar branch on almost every corner of America.


I agree with Phobia's take on that.

What they do provide is money in the form of Loans that allow people to buy cars and houses (which some can't afford).

If you play by the rules that are already laid out in front of you ahead of time, everything will be fine. When you start to deviate from the rules, you will get hit hard, just like anything else in life.

Free checking accounts with no fees, what is wrong with that?

Now, on the banks giving loans out to people that couldn't afford the houses they were buying, burn everyone of those mother fuckers to the ground. The banks are to blame on that, and the fact that they took our money (in taxes) and gave it out in the form of bonuses and other BS, that is criminal IMO.

That kicked our economy in the nuts.

notorious
11-14-2009, 02:45 PM
I am sorry if I insulted you, Bugeater.

Whenever someone brings up the poor argument with me, I let my emotion take over a little bit. I lived it, dug out, and am now successful. If I can do it, I don't want others saying it's impossible or blaming others for their situation.

Once again, sorry. It's just a bulletin board, no reason for me to take it personally.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-14-2009, 02:47 PM
I agree with Phobia's take on that.

What they do provide is money in the form of Loans that allow people to buy cars and houses (which some can't afford).

If you play by the rules that are already laid out in front of you ahead of time, everything will be fine. When you start to deviate from the rules, you will get hit hard, just like anything else in life.

Free checking accounts with no fees, what is wrong with that?

Now, on the banks giving loans out to people that couldn't afford the houses they were buying, burn everyone of those mother fuckers to the ground. The banks are to blame on that, and the fact that they took our money (in taxes) and gave it out in the form of bonuses and other BS, that is criminal IMO.

That kicked our economy in the nuts.

I'm with you on all of that.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-14-2009, 02:49 PM
I am sorry if I insulted you, Bugeater.

Whenever someone brings up the poor argument with me, I let my emotion take over a little bit. I lived it, dug out, and am now successful. If I can do it, I don't want others saying it's impossible or blaming others for their situation.

Once again, sorry. It's just a bulletin board, no reason for me to take it personally.

So did I. But at some point IMO you have to remember that not every one is born with the same circumstances. The genetic lottery is a much more important one than the family lottery. What I mean is, I'd rather be born smart and poor than dumb and rich any day of the week. But unfortunately a lot of people are born dumb and poor and that's a hard fuckin hole to climb out of.

notorious
11-14-2009, 02:52 PM
So did I. But at some point IMO you have to remember that not every one is born with the same circumstances. The genetic lottery is a much more important one than the family lottery. What I mean is, I'd rather be born smart and poor than dumb and rich any day of the week. But unfortunately a lot of people are born dumb and poor and that's a hard ****in hole to climb out of.


I had my moments where I had the worst of both worlds. :)

That dumb thing never quite left me completely..........

SenselessChiefsFan
11-14-2009, 02:52 PM
Phobia summed it up best. If you want proof that banks are full of crooks, try and name another industry that doesn't provide a tangible good that can afford to have a brick and mortar branch on almost every corner of America.

Typical good ol' American stupidity.

Banks offer great services to those who are smart enough to use them for their benefit.

Most banks provide free checking. Yet, we don't talk about the service that they offer for free. We complain when people that are too dumb to balance their checkbooks get hit with overdraft fees. Nevermind the fact that the bank is taking a risk by covering that transaction.

Americans have become a bunch of pathetic self entitled morons that have zero understanding of economics.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-14-2009, 02:55 PM
I agree with Phobia's take on that.

What they do provide is money in the form of Loans that allow people to buy cars and houses (which some can't afford).

If you play by the rules that are already laid out in front of you ahead of time, everything will be fine. When you start to deviate from the rules, you will get hit hard, just like anything else in life.

Free checking accounts with no fees, what is wrong with that?

Now, on the banks giving loans out to people that couldn't afford the houses they were buying, burn everyone of those mother ****ers to the ground. The banks are to blame on that, and the fact that they took our money (in taxes) and gave it out in the form of bonuses and other BS, that is criminal IMO.

That kicked our economy in the nuts.

The banks aren't innocent in all of this, but the federal government was breathing down their necks to make more loans. It started with Clinton, and even George Bush continued to apply pressure to make loans.

This is just another instance of government interference that will come back to bite the tax payers.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-14-2009, 03:00 PM
So did I. But at some point IMO you have to remember that not every one is born with the same circumstances. The genetic lottery is a much more important one than the family lottery. What I mean is, I'd rather be born smart and poor than dumb and rich any day of the week. But unfortunately a lot of people are born dumb and poor and that's a hard ****in hole to climb out of.

Some people are born with high metabolisms. Some are born with low metabolisms. Some are born lazy. Some are born motivated.

Frankly, if anyone is motivated enough, they can overcome a lack of god given intelligence or ANY other shortcoming that life has dealt them.

Too bad society spends more time looking for excuses than results.

notorious
11-14-2009, 03:02 PM
The banks aren't innocent in all of this, but the federal government was breathing down their necks to make more loans. It started with Clinton, and even George Bush continued to apply pressure to make loans.

This is just another instance of government interference that will come back to bite the tax payers.

I should explain my statement in agreeing with Phobia's take:

They do not provide anything tangable. We would all be fine without banks if they ceased to exist.

In fact, people that actually produce something (farmers, ranchers, construction) would finally get the credit they deserve.

The banking system has it's good people and it's crooks in it just like EVERY other industry in the world.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-14-2009, 03:04 PM
I should explain my statement in agreeing with Phobia's take:

They do not provide anything tangable. We would all be fine without banks if they ceased to exist.

In fact, people that actually produce something (farmers, ranchers, construction) would finally get the credit they deserve.

The banking system has it's good people and it's crooks in it just like EVERY other industry in the world.

I agree completely... and I know that banks take advantage of those who let themselves be taken advantage of.

But, that is there own fault. No amount of legislation will eliminate stupidity.

notorious
11-14-2009, 03:06 PM
No amount of legislation will eliminate stupidity.

They sure as hell try, though.

52decleetzu
11-14-2009, 03:55 PM
I just received no less then 4 overdraft charges credited back to my account after an unauthorized charge was posted I did not know about caused a chain reaction of fees. No interest was paid back to me BTW for all the time they had MY money in their coffers....shocking I know.

It took me 21 days, 3 trips to the bank and my valuable time wasted, which all could have been avoided if my card was simply declined when I tried to use it if the funds which (I thought) were there were not available.

This is and always has been a scam the banks use to get more money out of simple mistakes(sometimes the customers fault sometimes not), it is not always as cut and dry as all of the bank employees in this thread make it seem.

As far as the banks raising other fees to make up for this I have a hard time coming up with a way to make up for even 1 overdraft fee a year since all I do is keep my money in the account and do not use any of their services. What are they going to only pay me .00001% instead of .00002% on my savings account? Go for it, I could care less.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-14-2009, 04:41 PM
They sure as hell try, though.

Well, they have to do something to stay in power.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-14-2009, 04:49 PM
Typical good ol' American stupidity.

Banks offer great services to those who are smart enough to use them for their benefit.

Most banks provide free checking. Yet, we don't talk about the service that they offer for free. We complain when people that are too dumb to balance their checkbooks get hit with overdraft fees. Nevermind the fact that the bank is taking a risk by covering that transaction.

Americans have become a bunch of pathetic self entitled morons that have zero understanding of economics.


LMAO Oh right. Banks don't benefit one oz. having people leave money with them. You're not very sensible.

patteeu
11-14-2009, 06:35 PM
Phobia summed it up best. If you want proof that banks are full of crooks, try and name another industry that doesn't provide a tangible good that can afford to have a brick and mortar branch on almost every corner of America.

Real estate, insurance, churches, ...

patteeu
11-14-2009, 06:40 PM
I think that everyone who thinks that banks are crooks who screw them at every turn should just quit using them. Problem solved.

The next step in this blame-game process is to remember that many banks are run by the Jews.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-14-2009, 07:33 PM
LMAO Oh right. Banks don't benefit one oz. having people leave money with them. You're not very sensible.

Okay, checking accounts are money in and money out. They aren't savings accounts. They aren't cd's. Checking accounts actually cost the banks money to run.

And, when these morons, who can't balance their checkbooks, overdraft their account.... guess who they will be calling and whose time they will be wasting. The banks employees.

Now, you probably don't run anything, so your probably don't understand the economic principles behind man hours required and how that is an actual expense. But, just having someone there to answer someones questions because they can't balance their checkbook.... actually costs money.

Sorry, but it is just more of the same from a lazy, excuse making society.

Mr. Flopnuts
11-14-2009, 08:10 PM
Okay, checking accounts are money in and money out. They aren't savings accounts. They aren't cd's. Checking accounts actually cost the banks money to run.

And, when these morons, who can't balance their checkbooks, overdraft their account.... guess who they will be calling and whose time they will be wasting. The banks employees.

Now, you probably don't run anything, so your probably don't understand the economic principles behind man hours required and how that is an actual expense. But, just having someone there to answer someones questions because they can't balance their checkbook.... actually costs money.

Sorry, but it is just more of the same from a lazy, excuse making society.

What does that have to do with the topic at hand? Involuntary overdraft coverage, but only if the bank chooses to provide it.