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View Full Version : Chiefs Will we see a major coaching staff overhaul this coming offseason?


Frankie
11-13-2009, 02:44 PM
What do you think? Pioli hired his HC pretty late and by then the cream of the crop was taken from the assistant coach pool. IMO we are seeing some poor coaching this season that, combined with Pioli's purge of players from the past regime, has created a very poor team. It stands to reason that with some current HCs on the hot seat (Jack Del Rio, anybody?) we might look into not only adding to the talent of the roster, but that of the coaching staff as well.

Der Flöprer
11-13-2009, 02:45 PM
I think we'll see new coordinators on both sides of the ball and some major position changes. But Haley will, and should be back next year.

The Rick
11-13-2009, 02:46 PM
I think we'll see new coordinators on both sides of the ball and some major position changes. But Haley will, and should be back next year.Yup.

Frankie
11-13-2009, 02:46 PM
I think we'll see new coordinators on both sides of the ball and some major position changes. But Haley will, and should be back next year.

I agree.

Mr. Arrowhead
11-13-2009, 02:47 PM
I think we'll see new coordinators on both sides of the ball and some major position changes. But Haley will, and should be back next year.

This. I think Romeo Crennel will be our new DC and Haley will hire some up and comer to be the OC.

FD
11-13-2009, 02:48 PM
We had better.

kstater
11-13-2009, 02:50 PM
Haley's lost the team and I see him gone prior to the end of the year.

Otter
11-13-2009, 02:51 PM
Haley's lost the team and I see him gone prior to the end of the year.

Wanna make a sig bet on that statement?

Frankie
11-13-2009, 02:51 PM
Haley's lost the team and I see him gone prior to the end of the year.

Ye of little faith!

Dicky McElephant
11-13-2009, 02:53 PM
Hopefully we'll get a new OC, DC and d-line coach.

DaneMcCloud
11-13-2009, 02:53 PM
Haley's lost the team and I see him gone prior to the end of the year.

Is this a joke because I can't tell.

If not, you really think that Haley would be fired mid-season, leaving Clark Hunt to pay his contract for the next 4 years?

I say no fucking way.

kstater
11-13-2009, 02:55 PM
Is this a joke because I can't tell.

If not, you really think that Haley would be fired mid-season, leaving Clark Hunt to pay his contract for the next 4 years?

I say no fucking way.

If you think about it, it's the only option. Hell he could coach 22 guys off the street to two wins, yet can't coach this team past that mark.

Red Beans
11-13-2009, 02:56 PM
Haley's lost the team and I see him gone prior to the end of the year.

There's absolutely no evidence of this. LJ doesn't count beacuse he's a turd. Look at all the players that played for Haley coming out and saying how much they learned playing for him. Fitzgerald, Warner, I mean those two are enough for me but I'm sure there are more. Quit being such a negative Nancy and flush the sand out of your vajayjay, it's starting to look like Lawrence of Arabia in there.

DaneMcCloud
11-13-2009, 02:57 PM
If you think about it, it's the only option. Hell he could coach 22 guys off the street to two wins, yet can't coach this team past that mark.

There's no way that Clark Hunt throws away $10-12 million dollars, regardless of Haley's performance.

The Poz
11-13-2009, 02:58 PM
Haley isn't going anywhere for a couple years. That's how long it would take even the late Bill Walsh to clean up the mess Herm left behind.

Dicky McElephant
11-13-2009, 02:59 PM
Haley gets 3 years to show improvement. He's going to need all three of those years to show it too.

Frankie
11-13-2009, 02:59 PM
There's absolutely no evidence of this. LJ doesn't count beacuse he's a turd. Look at all the players that played for Haley coming out and saying how much they learned playing for him.

And even this team never gives up no matter how far they are behind in a game.

bowener
11-13-2009, 02:59 PM
I know little about Crennel, is he the type of mind that can create an identity for the Chiefs defense?

What I mean is, is he the type of guy that can come in here, look at the players we have, and rather than create strictly a 34 or 43 D create something that is tailored to our players (Dorsey comes to mind)?

Can he create a system that is ours and will get the most out of our players' skills and strengths even if it is not traditional?

I think you understand what I am asking. I don't just want a DC, I want one that is going to bring the hard hits back and smother the ball at all times. Like the Ravens D when it swarmed every team they played a few years ago and instilled fear and dread in opposing teams.

chiefs1111
11-13-2009, 02:59 PM
well Id like too see a new DC to replace Clancy and a new Oline coach would be nice as well.

kstater
11-13-2009, 02:59 PM
There's no way that Clark Hunt throws away $10-12 million dollars, regardless of Haley's performance.


He technically wouldn't be throwing it away. Unless you think an unemployed Haley would live in a dump.

Red Brooklyn
11-13-2009, 03:01 PM
I think we'll see new coordinators on both sides of the ball and some major position changes. But Haley will, and should be back next year.
:thumb:

Fritz88
11-13-2009, 03:02 PM
They better replace Clancy Pandershit.

bowener
11-13-2009, 03:02 PM
And even this team never gives up no matter how far they are behind in a game.

That alone is proof that they haven't quit on him. That also gives me great hope for the future. If the Chiefs get talent on this team and they maintain this mindset the Chiefs might just become an imposing team.

Red Beans
11-13-2009, 03:03 PM
I know little about Crennel, is he the type of mind that can create an identity for the Chiefs defense?

What I mean is, is he the type of guy that can come in here, look at the players we have, and rather than create strictly a 34 or 43 D create something that is tailored to our players (Dorsey comes to mind)?

Can he create a system that is ours and will get the most out of our players' skills and strengths even if it is not traditional?

I think you understand what I am asking. I don't just want a DC, I want one that is going to bring the hard hits back and smother the ball at all times. Like the Ravens D when it swarmed every team they played a few years ago and instilled fear and dread in opposing teams.

Dear Jesus, I want this. Please provide it to me at your earliest convienence.
Thank you,
Beans

Frankie
11-13-2009, 03:07 PM
Which of current HCs who might get fired would you like on the Chiefs staff? I mentioned Del Rio in the topic, and if memory serves me right he played for the Chiefs. Would he be a good DC IYO?

Mr. Laz
11-13-2009, 03:43 PM
I think we'll see new coordinators on both sides of the ball and some major position changes. But Haley will, and should be back next year.this


i really,really hope Haley gets some kind of Offensive coordinator so he can get a grip and concentrate on being a Head Coach.

kaplin42
11-13-2009, 03:48 PM
Pendergast isn't going anywhere. And although I would like to see it, im not sure that a new OC will be installed, causing the offense to learn yet another scheme.

The Rick
11-13-2009, 03:57 PM
Haley isn't going anywhere for a couple years. That's how long it would take even the late Bill Walsh to clean up the mess Herm left behind.To be fair, Bill Walsh does move a little slower these days.

*ba dum, tssshhh*

swayy07
11-13-2009, 03:58 PM
first of all fuck delrio his team is almost as bad as our team is this year yes they are 4-4 but look at who their wins came against either 1 win teams or no win teams they arent good at all IMO. haley stays atleast 2 to 3 more years garunteed, we gave herm 3 years didnt we? crennel should be brought it to run the defense with out a doubt and i think he will be brought in considering i think we almost got him last year but he wanted to wait a year because of his surgery and my hail mary mother of grace pick for an OC is al saunders but i doubt that will happen. the OC will prolly be a young guy that will do what haley wants like someone said earlyer.... just hope to god we show some signs of life next year.

DaWolf
11-13-2009, 04:00 PM
Let's just say if Haley is not shy about making staff changes during preseason and in season, then if an assistant is not performing, I don't see him sitting back and not making a move.

The only way I could see Pendergast coming back is if this defense makes tremendous strides in the second half of the season. If we continue plodding along like we have been, I don't see how they could rationalize bringing him back as the DC. Haley was pretty critical last week of the big plays being given up and costing us games, so you better believe he's going to want to see improvement there.

As far as an OC goes, I'd be doubtful we'd hire a high profile guy who was going to come in and run the offense like Al Saunders did. More than likely Haley is going to want to continue to be involved in the playcalling at some level, so he'll probably look for a guy who can come in and help create the gameplans while Haley maintains playcalling duties on Sunday. Also hire a QB coach.

That's all a guess though, so look for Haley to do none of these things...

thawk
11-13-2009, 04:02 PM
I would not be shocked if Romeo was our DC. Denver's fortune this year has more to do with the DC than the head coach. Romeo would be o/k but Del
Rio would be better and the fans at Jacksonvile last weekend are ready to hang him. Also if Charley looses his job at Notre Dame he does have a good track record as a OC and ties to Pioli. Who knows what could happen but I would say Haily is here as he should be but he does need help.

Detoxing
11-13-2009, 04:03 PM
I think Romeo will be hired, but Clancy will be retained. I also believe Haley will hire a new WR's coach, a new TE's coach and a young OC that will run Haley's playbook and be his puppet.

DaWolf
11-13-2009, 04:09 PM
If Wade Phillips gets canned I would not mind seeing him come in as the DC either...

DumbHillbillies
11-13-2009, 04:20 PM
No one is safe except haley. Hell, they fired chan 10 days before the season started imagine what they will do in the offseason.

DaneMcCloud
11-13-2009, 04:22 PM
No one is safe except haley. Hell, they fired chan 10 days before the season started imagine what they will do in the offseason.

They didn't actually fire him. They reassigned him.

That way, he doesn't go to another team while being paid by Clark Hunt.

Rausch
11-13-2009, 04:26 PM
I think Haley has at least next year even if he doesn't win another game this season...

Rausch
11-13-2009, 04:27 PM
They didn't actually fire him. They reassigned him.

That way, he doesn't go to another team while being paid by Clark Hunt.

Good.

Then reassign his ass back to OC...:cuss:

CoMoChief
11-13-2009, 04:28 PM
Haley's lost the team and I see him gone prior to the end of the year.

There have been very few coaches that have been fired after 1 season.

DumbHillbillies
11-13-2009, 04:29 PM
They didn't actually fire him. They reassigned him.

That way, he doesn't go to another team while being paid by Clark Hunt.

Yeah, I love that part we are going to reassign you to do god knows what. ROFL

DaWolf
11-13-2009, 04:30 PM
I think Haley has at least next year even if he doesn't win another game this season...

That, I'd be hesitant to agree with. If we go winless in the second half, finishing 1-15, and we show zero improvement, I don't know how you could argue that Haley should be given a second season. If Cam Cameron can't get another season after 1-15, I don't see any way to argue that Haley should get another year. Progress has to be shown, and it has to be this year...

DumbHillbillies
11-13-2009, 04:31 PM
There have been very few coaches that have been fired after 1 season.

Yeah, mangini looks like he is going to join that select group but not haley. He'll have at the minimum two seasons.

Rausch
11-13-2009, 04:31 PM
That, I'd be hesitant to agree with. If we go winless in the second half, finishing 1-15, and we show zero improvement, I don't know how you could argue that Haley should be given a second season. If Cam Cameron can't get another season after 1-15, I don't see any way to argue that Haley should get another year. Progress has to be shown, and it has to be this year...

I don't honestly believe you should fire a HC after only one season.

It's just not enough time for him to get "his" guys and for "his" draft picks to mature.

That said I'd porno-gizz if we fired the guy this weekend...

Ralphy Boy
11-13-2009, 04:47 PM
To anyone stupid enough to say that Haley is going to get fired, your clueless.

No way in hell Haley goes anywhere. Pioli and him go back 15 years. Haley took himself out of the running for the Miami job before Sparano was hired. We all hear "Parcells connection" and we laugh. They don't laugh. They think it means a lot.

This. I think Romeo Crennel will be our new DC and Haley will hire some up and comer to be the OC.

I'd love the first part, but think your way off on the second.
Romeo would completely control that side of the ball and Todd could focus on the O.

Haley will not hand over his offensive playcalling duties, whether he hires an OC in name only, I don't know. He was groomed for his role over a period of years. Wide Receivers coach, passing game coordinator then OC. There is no way in hell he hands the role over to a young "up and comer" who has not been under his tutelage for a period of at least a year or two. If he was so ready to get rid of the job, he'd have never fired Chan, who has 20+ years of experience and is a proven success in the NFL. You don't can Chan to hire an unproven replacement unless you have known him for a long time. Mike Miller in Arizona was WR coach, while Haley was OC. He is now the passing game coord under Wisenhunt and being groomed to be OC. Maybe Haley could snag him, but I don't see it happening. Maybe Maurice Carthon, current Assistant Head Coach that works with our RB's, becomes the running game coordinator. They've worked together for since back in the mid 90's.

If he'd hand it off to anyone, I wouldn't be surprised to see Mike Martz end up here. I know everyone will choke on the thought, but Haley knows what Martz did for Warner, knows he's a very inventive coordinator and they basically have the same flaws. Both pass happy, run poor guys with huge egos who run a very similar offense. Warner & Haley talk all the time and even though Brenda Warner & Martz didnt get along, I think Warner thinks alot of Martz. I can only imagine some of the crap those two mad scientists could come up with if they worked together. It could be that Haley doesnt want a strong personality in that role that would challenge his authority. It could be that he thought Chan's offense was just too simple minded. None of us really know.

Martz's offense's were never ranked worse than 23 in yards & 22 in scoring, no matter how long he was there. Ours is 27th in scoring right now, so clearly it couldn't hurt. His worst offense was last year in San Fran with who at QB & who at WR????????
He had nothing to work with and still did a decent job in 1 year. Hell he had the 16th rated scoring offense in Detroit in 07 and made Kitna a 63% completion % passer, with 8,000+ yards in his two seasons with him. They went from 28th in scoring before he got there to 21st in scoring his first season to 16th the next then dropped to 27th in scoring with an 0-16 record after he left.

Again, I don't think Haley would hire an OC, but if he did - I wouldn't be surprised if it was Martz.

DaneMcCloud
11-13-2009, 04:52 PM
If he'd hand it off to anyone, I wouldn't be surprised to see Mike Martz end up here.

There was a whole lot of horseshit speculation in your post, but none bigger than this little "gem".

Mike Martz will NEVER coach under Todd Haley because Martz runs the Coryell/Zampese offense (like Cam Cameron, Norv Turner, Al Saunders, Joe Gibbs, etc.) and Haley runs the Ron Erhardt offense.

Never going to happen.

Period.

Rausch
11-13-2009, 04:52 PM
If he'd hand it off to anyone, I wouldn't be surprised to see Mike Martz end up here.

That would be it for me. I would give up football fucking completely...

DaneMcCloud
11-13-2009, 04:53 PM
That would be it for me. I would give up football fucking completely...

It'll NEVER happen.

Raised On Riots
11-13-2009, 04:54 PM
Pendergast isn't going anywhere. And although I would like to see it, im not sure that a new OC will be installed, causing the offense to learn yet another scheme.

This post makes the Baby Jesus weep.

Rausch
11-13-2009, 04:58 PM
This post makes the Baby Jesus weep.

I'm still not sure why super-athletic-in-shape-defense plays respectable the 1st half and turns to complete $3it the second.

I thought losing all this weight and additional conditioning was supposed to make us a GOOD 4th quarter team...:mad:

Ralphy Boy
11-13-2009, 05:00 PM
I would not be shocked if Romeo was our DC. Denver's fortune this year has more to do with the DC than the head coach. Romeo would be o/k but Del
Rio would be better and the fans at Jacksonvile last weekend are ready to hang him. Also if Charley looses his job at Notre Dame he does have a good track record as a OC and ties to Pioli. Who knows what could happen but I would say Haily is here as he should be but he does need help.

I believe that Charlie is a bit more inclined to go back to NE than come here. He's never worked with Cassel and outside of Pioli, I cant imagine 1 reason he'd want to come here. Plus I don't think they have an OC.

Your dead on about Denver. Nolan and the defense is the reason Denver is good. Their offense is worse than last year, despite every Donkey fan slobbering all over Orton's jock.
2009 Denver is currently 22nd in scoring.
2008 Denver was 16th in scoring.

SenselessChiefsFan
11-13-2009, 05:22 PM
It will be interesting to see what happens this year.... but it is clear that THIS isn't working.

Rausch
11-13-2009, 05:36 PM
It will be interesting to see what happens this year.... .

When?

When will this year start to become interesting?...

Brock
11-13-2009, 05:45 PM
I believe that Charlie is a bit more inclined to go back to NE than come here. He's never worked with Cassel and outside of Pioli, I cant imagine 1 reason he'd want to come here. Plus I don't think they have an OC.

I doubt Weis would go back to NE. Their offense is better now than it ever was when he was there, even without a dedicated OC, and I don't even think they're running the same offense as they did when he was there.

Mr. Laz
11-13-2009, 05:54 PM
martz might not be too bad if Haley kept calling the plays.

I think Martz did a pretty dam good job installing/teaching an offense, he just couldn't ever control himself when it came to his passing addiction.

would Martz agree to be Offensive Coord without calling plays? i dunno.

isn't he a QB coach now? it would a half a step up. :)

Rausch
11-13-2009, 05:58 PM
martz might not be too bad if Haley kept calling the plays.

Given the choice between that or a mule kicking my grandmother in the ovaries I'd pick the mule...

Mr. Laz
11-13-2009, 06:15 PM
Given the choice between that or a mule kicking my grandmother in the ovaries I'd pick the mule...
you're funny ... stupid, but funny. ROFL


Martz has been a part of alot of quality offenses ... in fact virtually ever offense he becomes a part of gets better.

The problem is that he's obsessed with passing the ball and just can help himself. Then he self-destructs so you can't let him have complete control ... you have to keep a leash on him.

If Haley brings Martz in to be the "helper" OC i think it would increase our offensive improvement by leaps and bounds. Of course Martz can't stay here for very long ... 2/3 years and then he's gotta go before it blows up.

Rausch
11-13-2009, 06:24 PM
you're funny ... stupid, but funny. ROFL

And you managed achieve the proper use of you/your/you're for an entire post.

I give you rep.

If Haley brings Martz in to be the "helper" OC i think it would increase our offensive improvement by leaps and bounds.

Compare last year's offense with this year. Haley doesn't need offensive help he needs to step the fuck back and manage the team.

I don't know why I'm arguing this. If you ever put two ego's like Haley and Martz in the same room odds are they'd both die choking each other out during the interview process...

bevischief
11-13-2009, 06:27 PM
Given the choice between that or a mule kicking my grandmother in the ovaries I'd pick the mule...

That is better than we see most Sundays...ROFL

Mr. Laz
11-13-2009, 06:28 PM
If you ever put two ego's like Haley and Martz in the same room odds are they'd both die choking each other out during the interview process...
THIS ............... is true.

They would need to have some kind of relationship to begin with and don't know that they do. It's all conjecture, Haley is just as likely to insist he can do it all by himself and not hire anyone at all.

Haley is almost Gunther-ish is his dumbassery sometimes.

Rausch
11-13-2009, 06:31 PM
Haley is almost Gunther-ish is his dumbassery sometimes.

THIS!

BossChief
11-13-2009, 06:40 PM
We need a QB coach more than anything.

During games Cassel is missing the benefit of a QB coach especially for him, which is what McD was for him last year. Haley has so much on his plate that some stuff squeeks through the cracks. Cassel has a lot of development to go through and not having a qb coach is a big mistake. It shows.

IMO I think the biggest reason Chan was reasigned is because he wanted his playbook and Haley wanted his. I cant see them hiring a oc that would want to change the playbook, but I could be wrong. I wonder if Haley is grooming Carthon for the gig.

If Wade hits the open market and doesnt get called in for a little chit chat, I will be disapointed.

Frankie
11-14-2009, 11:45 AM
I still wanna know about your speculations what coaches might become available who IYO would make great additions to our coaching staff. I was not the greatest fan of Marty, but some of his early staffs included a lot of talent most of which went on to become NFL HCs. I'd like to see that kind of talent on our current staff.

the Talking Can
11-14-2009, 11:49 AM
Hopefully we'll get a new OC, DC and d-line coach.

this

talastan
11-14-2009, 11:52 AM
I personally think Haley is our HC for the next couple of years. As for Pendergast I hope to see his @ss out the door. Krumrie along with him. Pick up a reputable 3-4 DC and let him bring his staff on. Our ST coach has done IMO a tremondous job and should stay. Haley also needs to hire a like minded OC to assist him. I don't mind Haley still calling plays for next season but he needs the extra set of eyes IMO.

Brock
11-14-2009, 11:52 AM
I still wanna know about your speculations what coaches might become available who IYO would make great additions to our coaching staff. I was not the greatest fan of Marty, but some of his early staffs included a lot of talent most of which went on to become NFL HCs. I'd like to see that kind of talent on our current staff.

Well, John Fox might become available as a DC.

Pioli Zombie
11-14-2009, 11:56 AM
Haley isn't going anywhere for a couple years. That's how long it would take even the late Bill Walsh to clean up the mess Herm left behind.
The players wouldn't listen to the late Bill Walsh because he is quite decomposed now and smells something awful. Also, he can't speak because he's Dead and he can't listen because he's dead so the communication problems would be fuckin enormous. And did I mention the smell??
Posted via Mobile Device

ChiefaRoo
11-14-2009, 12:02 PM
Haley's lost the team and I see him gone prior to the end of the year.

dumb.

Frankie
11-14-2009, 12:06 PM
Well, John Fox might become available as a DC.

DC?

milkman
11-14-2009, 12:08 PM
DC?

What's the question?

beach tribe
11-14-2009, 12:10 PM
Haley's lost the team and I see him gone prior to the end of the year.

Just Wow.

impulse much?

milkman
11-14-2009, 12:12 PM
Just Wow.

impulse much?

I'm pretty sure he's just yanking, and I ain't going to go yanking back.

beach tribe
11-14-2009, 12:22 PM
I'm obviously easily prodded.

SNR
11-14-2009, 12:26 PM
hao bot we get trent green in as qb coch?

Deberg_1990
11-14-2009, 12:39 PM
Well, John Fox might become available as a DC.

That would be intriguing....Isnt he from the Parcells tree as well?

milkman
11-14-2009, 12:47 PM
That would be intriguing....Isnt he from the Parcells tree as well?

John Fox missed Parcells by 6 or 7 years.

Of the top of my head, Parcells "retired" as HC of the Giants in '90 ir '91.
Fox joined the Giants staff in about '96 or '97.

milkman
11-14-2009, 01:02 PM
DC?

I still want to know what you're asking specifically.

BossChief
11-14-2009, 01:09 PM
If Wade Phillips gets canned I would not mind seeing him come in as the DC either...
This would be the best option.

Good.

Then reassign his ass back to OC...:cuss:

I never want to be part of a circus act offense ever again. We would never win a superbowl with it.

I hate to say it because the guy frustrates the hell out of me so far on sundays, but Haley is doing the right thing by building a normal offense. It is the only way to effectively build an offense long term because it allows you to identify your weaknesses a lot easier. I just hope they are making the right moves as to who stays and who goes because so far I have my doubts.

If we go winless in the second half, finishing 1-15, and we show zero improvement, I don't know how you could argue that Haley should be given a second season. If Cam Cameron can't get another season after 1-15, I don't see any way to argue that Haley should get another year. Progress has to be shown, and it has to be this year...
I said before the year started that I would be giving him a complete pass in the first half and would like to see a different team in the second half of the season. My hope is that during the Jaguars game Haley had some kind of speech to the team before the turned it on and that continues for the remainder of the year.

I agree that if he only wins one game all year, the question should be raised then. Until that happens, I have hope that the remainder of the years schedule will tell a lot of how effective Haley has been with his style.
I'm still not sure why super-athletic-in-shape-defense plays respectable the 1st half and turns to complete $3it the second.

I thought losing all this weight and additional conditioning was supposed to make us a GOOD 4th quarter team...:mad:

Our offense is really good in the fourth...ROFL

Well, John Fox might become available as a DC.
4-3 coach, no?

Frankie
11-14-2009, 08:16 PM
What's the question?

John Fox. I forget what side of the ball he coached. I think it was D. So I was asking if he'd be good as DC.

Frankie
11-14-2009, 08:20 PM
Never mind. I misread Brock's post. I coulda sworn he didn't have "DC" in it the first time I read it. Maybe I was drunk or something.

boogblaster
11-14-2009, 08:20 PM
OC .. DBC .. OLC ..... 4-sure ...........

KCrockaholic
11-14-2009, 08:20 PM
John Fox. I forget what side of the ball he coached. I think it was D. So I was asking if he'd be good as DC.

He would probably be great for a 4-3 team. But not this one.

KCrockaholic
11-14-2009, 08:23 PM
I was thinking. What are the chances we FINALLY fire Tim Krummie after this season? Keeping him was a big mistake to begin with. We need a new Line coach who actually knows how to coach the line. Instead of just making constipated faces all the time and getting nothing out of the players. Great player, horrible coach.

BossChief
11-14-2009, 08:57 PM
I was thinking. What are the chances we FINALLY fire Tim Krummie after this season? Keeping him was a big mistake to begin with. We need a new Line coach who actually knows how to coach the line. Instead of just making constipated faces all the time and getting nothing out of the players. Great player, horrible coach.

name a couple examples of why he sucks.

My arguement is that our defense was ranked #13 in 2007 (mostly fueled by his lines pass rush) and fell to #30 in 2008 (along with breaking records for futility in sacks) after we let Jared Allen and Jimmy Wilkerson get away. Those two combined for 20 sacks last year (when we only had 10 as a team) and have combined for 16 so far this year (when we have 10).

I think CP made Krumrie look bad when he let two of his best players go and didnt replace them.

All of our defensive linemen are outperforming their expectations this year and people still want the guys throat.

Id say that if our team has a strength, it is the dline, no?

Johnny Vegas
11-14-2009, 09:12 PM
not much of a fan of Haley at this point. He wants production right away from his players yet he's not making the right play calls. Such as going for 4th and 2 in the 1st quarter yet punts in the last 8 minutes in the 4th quarter when behind. Can't even win IN Arrowhead. Yeah thanks coach.

KCrockaholic
11-14-2009, 09:14 PM
name a couple examples of why he sucks.

My arguement is that our defense was ranked #13 in 2007 (mostly fueled by his lines pass rush) and fell to #30 in 2008 (along with breaking records for futility in sacks) after we let Jared Allen and Jimmy Wilkerson get away. Those two combined for 20 sacks last year (when we only had 10 as a team) and have combined for 16 so far this year (when we have 10).

I think CP made Krumrie look bad when he let two of his best players go and didnt replace them.

All of our defensive linemen are outperforming their expectations this year and people still want the guys throat.

Id say that if our team has a strength, it is the dline, no?


I really hope your joking man, Krumrie can't motivate his players at all, all his screaming and bs gets us nowhere. The D-line serves no purpose right now other than to just take up a spot. I suppose, to give him the benefit of the doubt, he is trying to turn 4-3 players that are playing new positions into 3-4 fits. Dorsey has done nothing this year, Jackson has done nothing except for last week (yes I understand he is a rookie), Ron Edwards and Tank had gone nowhere. Tank will probably end up being a good player now that he is in Carolina.


The thing that he has against him this season is season is like I said, switching Defensive tackles into NT's and ends, and Tyson Jackson into a 3-4 DE. It wont happen overnight, but Tim has done nothing for the Chiefs line since he came here. He had a good season with the Bills in 2004, but that was when he had Aaron Schobel, Pat Williams, Sam Adams, and Kris Kelsay on the line.

The only reason Haley wanted to keep Krumrie was because of his hard ass attitude that fits what Haley likes. I mean really, as a coach, what has Krumrie done in the NFL? Especially for KC.

KCrockaholic
11-14-2009, 09:16 PM
not much of a fan of Haley at this point. He wants production right away from his players yet he's not making the right play calls. Such as going for 4th and 2 in the 1st quarter yet punts in the last 8 minutes in the 4th quarter when behind. Can't even win IN Arrowhead. Yeah thanks coach.

You have to give a rookie coach some time. Tell me, what coach could have turned this team into a 4-4 team at this point? Especially a rookie coach.

soundmind
11-14-2009, 09:17 PM
I think CP made Krumrie look bad when he let two of his best players go and didnt replace them. All of our defensive linemen are outperforming their expectations this year and people still want the guys throat.

Id say that if our team has a strength, it is the dline, no?

I agree with the first statement somewhat, but have to disagree on the second. I have been one of many calling for his job, because our line hasn't produced at all outside of Jared Allen for a long long time. JA has proven that it had little to do with Krumrie and more to do with him being a crazed hick. Krumrie's been handed draft pick after draft pick to develop, and we basically have a rookie and 2nd year player to show for it after 5 seasons. Basically, he's failed for a number of years, and we're starting over. Again.

KCrockaholic
11-14-2009, 09:20 PM
I agree whole-heartedly with the first statement, but have to disagree on the second. I have been one of many calling for his job, because our line hasn't produced at all outside of Jared Allen for a long long time. JA has proven that it had little to do with Krumrie and more to do with him being a crazed hick.

He's been handed draft pick after draft pick to develop, and we basically have a rookie and 2nd year player to show for it. Basically, he's failed for a number of years, and we're starting over. Again.

Heh, yeah, I forgot to mention that in my post. That and if you want to argue about Jimmy Wilkerson, why is it that he goes to a new team is suddenly a good pass rusher? In KC he was just a fill in guy.

Johnny Vegas
11-14-2009, 09:24 PM
You have to give a rookie coach some time. Tell me, what coach could have turned this team into a 4-4 team at this point? Especially a rookie coach.

Herm did take the Chiefs to the playoffs his first year. Just sayin.......

Raised On Riots
11-14-2009, 09:27 PM
Herm did take the Chiefs to the playoffs his first year. Just sayin.......

:shake:

soundmind
11-14-2009, 09:29 PM
Herm did take the Chiefs to the playoffs his first year. Just sayin.......

Actually, the dust of Vermeil and the Chiefs took Herm to the playoffs. You had the cart and horse messed up.

KCrockaholic
11-14-2009, 09:32 PM
Herm did take the Chiefs to the playoffs his first year. Just sayin.......

Yep, and whos team was that? That was Dick Vermeil's team. The year before we went 10-6 and missed out, the following year under Herm we went 9-7 and made it. It was no different than watching Chuckie take Dungy's Tampa team to the Superbowl other than we weren't that good. Herm wasn't a rookie coach anyways.

Johnny Vegas
11-14-2009, 09:35 PM
Actually, the dust of Vermeil and the Chiefs took Herm to the playoffs. You had the cart and horse messed up.

Herm took off hundreds of plays out of the play book and still took them to the playoffs. I fuckin hate Herm but Haley looks nothing better than what Herm brought right now.

BossChief
11-14-2009, 09:36 PM
I really hope your joking man, Krumrie can't motivate his players at all, all his screaming and bs gets us nowhere. The D-line serves no purpose right now other than to just take up a spot. I suppose, to give him the benefit of the doubt, he is trying to turn 4-3 players that are playing new positions into 3-4 fits. Dorsey has done nothing this year, Jackson has done nothing except for last week (yes I understand he is a rookie), Ron Edwards and Tank had gone nowhere. Tank will probably end up being a good player now that he is in Carolina.


The thing that he has against him this season is season is like I said, switching Defensive tackles into NT's and ends, and Tyson Jackson into a 3-4 DE. It wont happen overnight, but Tim has done nothing for the Chiefs line since he came here. He had a good season with the Bills in 2004, but that was when he had Aaron Schobel, Pat Williams, Sam Adams, and Kris Kelsay on the line.

The only reason Haley wanted to keep Krumrie was because of his hard ass attitude that fits what Haley likes. I mean really, as a coach, what has Krumrie done in the NFL? Especially for KC.

I agree with the first statement somewhat, but have to disagree on the second. I have been one of many calling for his job, because our line hasn't produced at all outside of Jared Allen for a long long time. JA has proven that it had little to do with Krumrie and more to do with him being a crazed hick. Krumrie's been handed draft pick after draft pick to develop, and we basically have a rookie and 2nd year player to show for it after 5 seasons. Basically, he's failed for a number of years, and we're starting over. Again.

I wouldnt be so quick to blame Krumrie for CPs stupidity.

The dline is doing its job, they arent letting the linemen get to the linebackers and Vrabel and Hali are able to roam and make plays because of it. Right or Wrong?

I love it when people say that a coach has nothing to do with the good things that come from his unit, only the bad parts. Put Jared Allen back on this line along with Jimmy Wilkerson and we would be a good defense. pure and simple.

Jared
Dorsey
Tank
Hali

Thats a very good dline!

Who did he fail to do his job with?

Dorsey
Tank
Turk
Hali
Jared
Edwards
Wilkerson
Gilberry
Magee

I would say all those got better the longer they were under his coaching, no?

I have always wondered why the guy gets flammed so often, I think he is basically a scapegoat because of the poor sack performance in 08, but that isnt his fault.

Add Flowers and Carr to our 07 defense and it is a top 10 unit, it was already #13 because his unit was getting sacks left and right before CP took a couple of his playmakers. We went from 5th in the NFL in sacks to record breaking historic low in sacks in one season because CP didnt think Jared and Jimmy were important.

CP=FAIL

KCrockaholic
11-14-2009, 09:48 PM
Its ok, Ive already given my opinion. We can agree to disagree :thumb: and see if he is still in KC next year.

BossChief
11-14-2009, 09:56 PM
Its ok, Ive already given my opinion. We can agree to disagree :thumb: and see if he is still in KC next year.


No arguement, just adding to a conversation, I like the guy...he has an atttitude that a young team needs, as a player he had the heart of a lion and I think he is a good coach because of it. All pro 280 pound nose guard.

With how much of a love affair Pioli has had with Anthony Pleasant since ten years ago, I wouldnt be surprised if he is worked into the coaching staff in some regard. I doubt it though. There is a reason they kept TK but fired Gun and its because he develops his players. Its a damn shame we didnt retain Gibbs too.

DaneMcCloud
11-14-2009, 10:54 PM
Yep, and whos team was that? That was Dick Vermeil's team. The year before we went 10-6 and missed out, the following year under Herm we went 9-7 and made it. It was no different than watching Chuckie take Dungy's Tampa team to the Superbowl other than we weren't that good. Herm wasn't a rookie coach anyways.

BULLSHIT.

Was Damon Huard Vermeil's starter?

Additionally, Vermeil didn't do a goddamn thing without a healthy Willie Roaf, who also didn't play in 2006.

JFC

DaneMcCloud
11-14-2009, 11:02 PM
I wouldnt be so quick to blame Krumrie for CPs stupidity.

The dline is doing its job, they arent letting the linemen get to the linebackers and Vrabel and Hali are able to roam and make plays because of it. Right or Wrong?

EPIC WRONG.

Hali has fucking 3 sacks in 8 games. How is that "getting to the QB"?

Hali has only 26 tackles.

Vrabel has 23 tackles and ONE sack.

Huh?

Furthermore, they're giving up 6 yards per play.

I fucking swear, some of you people are not watching the same team as the rest of the people on the PLANET EARTH.

bigbucks24
11-14-2009, 11:29 PM
You have to give a rookie coach some time. Tell me, what coach could have turned this team into a 4-4 team at this point? Especially a rookie coach.


Parcells and Sparano took a 1-15 team and turned them into an 11-5 team their first year. Was the 1-15 Dolphin team that more talented than last year's 2-14 Chiefs?

ClevelandBronco
11-14-2009, 11:42 PM
I know little about Crennel, is he the type of mind that can create an identity for the Chiefs defense?

What I mean is, is he the type of guy that can come in here, look at the players we have, and rather than create strictly a 34 or 43 D create something that is tailored to our players (Dorsey comes to mind)?

Can he create a system that is ours and will get the most out of our players' skills and strengths even if it is not traditional?

I think you understand what I am asking. I don't just want a DC, I want one that is going to bring the hard hits back and smother the ball at all times. Like the Ravens D when it swarmed every team they played a few years ago and instilled fear and dread in opposing teams.

After seeing what the Browns did with Romeo at the helm, I'm thinking not. I'm convinced that Belichik was the guy behind the Patriots' defense. Romeo was just in the right place at the right time.

DaneMcCloud
11-14-2009, 11:46 PM
After seeing what the Browns did with Romeo at the helm, I'm thinking not. I'm convinced that Belichik was the guy behind the Patriots' defense. Romeo was just in the right place at the right time.

Hey Pal, I agree completely.

People that think that Crennel will sprinkle some sort of magic elixir and repair this defense are sadly mistaken.

Personally, I'd rather see this coaching staff and front office think a little out of the box and reach to the college ranks for an up and comer, instead of rehashing the same old tired names.

BossChief
11-14-2009, 11:47 PM
BULLSHIT.

Was Damon Huard Vermeil's starter?

Additionally, Vermeil didn't do a goddamn thing without a healthy Willie Roaf, who also didn't play in 2006.

JFC

Vermeil was the best coach we have had since 65 toss power trap...its gonna bust wide open open! IMO

RIP HS

DeezNutz
11-14-2009, 11:48 PM
Vermeil was the best coach we have had since 65 toss power trap...its gonna bust wide open open! IMO

RIP HS

No.

BossChief
11-15-2009, 12:02 AM
EPIC WRONG.

Hali has ****ing 3 sacks in 8 games. How is that "getting to the QB"?

Hali has only 26 tackles.

Vrabel has 23 tackles and ONE sack.

Huh?

Furthermore, they're giving up 6 yards per play.

I ****ing swear, some of you people are not watching the same team as the rest of the people on the PLANET EARTH.

If you are gonna " " something while responding to my posts, take the time to " " something that I actually said in the post you quoted, that way it doesnt look like you are just making shit up. Which is what you did.

Anyone on "PLANET EARTH" would know that Hali is one of the leaders in the NFL in hurries, his short arms are a huge problem because he often misses the sack. If he could get a graps of the qbs he would have 7 or more sacks right now. If we had a legitimate pass rush threat opposite him, we would be getting to qbs with some consistency.

Vrabel is very close to done and routinely misses tackles, his brain is still there but his body is a step of two behind.

Those arent the lines fault.

Of course we are giving up 6 yards per play, Mike fucking Brown is a damn ghost and gives up three big plays minimum in every game we have played. Take away his total fail and I bet it isn't nearly as bad as it looks right now. Same goes with our nickle corners.

BossChief
11-15-2009, 12:04 AM
No.

we were the only team he HCd that he didnt lead to a championship game. College and pros.

Its a damn shame we never gave the man a average defense to help him win with.

KCrockaholic
11-15-2009, 12:04 AM
Parcells and Sparano took a 1-15 team and turned them into an 11-5 team their first year. Was the 1-15 Dolphin team that more talented than last year's 2-14 Chiefs?

Its not so much that they were more talented, they just happened to find the right QB and right system the following season to help them go 11-5. Pennington is not a good NFL QB, he just happened to fit into the Dolphins system perfectly. Using Ronnie Brown in the wildcat completely fooled everyone. In that 2007 season they had Trent Green and Cleo Lemon starting most of the games which was just a disaster. Ronnie Brown was injured, which left Jesse Chatman as the main back. Defensively the only bright spot was Jason Taylor, and Joey Porter didn't really come around until 2008 for Miami. A stroke of bad luck, and a mix of bad talent took them to 1-15 that season. Sparano did a terrific job his rookie season by catching the league off-guard.

Rausch
11-15-2009, 12:04 AM
I never want to be part of a circus act offense ever again. We would never win a superbowl with it.

I'm sick of this stupid bullshit.

GAILEY HAD NO CHOICE.

CHAN HAD A 3RD STRING QB WHO COULDN'T THROW FROM THE POCKET. The fact we even managed to score is fucking astounding. He polished a turd and made it look respectable.

During Chan's run with the Steelers they won their division each year AND WENT TO A SUPER BOWL. Chan took NEIL FUCKING ODONNEL to a super bowl.

Trick offense my ass. It's like saying Andy Reid is a smashmouth coach because he ran the shit out of the ball when McNabb went down for the year.

DaneMcCloud
11-15-2009, 12:05 AM
If you are gonna " " something while responding to my posts, take the time to " " something that I actually said in the post you quoted, that way it doesnt look like you are just making shit up. Which is what you did.

Anyone on "PLANET EARTH" would know that Hali is one of the leaders in the NFL in hurries, his short arms are a huge problem because he often misses the sack. If he could get a graps of the qbs he would have 7 or more sacks right now. If we had a legitimate pass rush threat opposite him, we would be getting to qbs with some consistency.

Vrabel is very close to done and routinely misses tackles, his brain is still there but his body is a step of two behind.

Those arent the lines fault.

Of course we are giving up 6 yards per play, Mike fucking Brown is a damn ghost and gives up three big plays minimum in every game we have played. Take away his total fail and I bet it isn't nearly as bad as it looks right now. Same goes with our nickle corners.

I get the feeling that if you were German, you'd make excuses for Hitler.

"At least he got the economy going!"

KCrockaholic
11-15-2009, 12:12 AM
I'm sick of this stupid bullshit.

GAILEY HAD NO CHOICE.

CHAN HAD A 3RD STRING QB WHO COULDN'T THROW FROM THE POCKET. The fact we even managed to score is ****ing astounding. He polished a turd and made it look respectable.

During Chan's run with the Steelers they won their division each year AND WENT TO A SUPER BOWL. Chan took NEIL ****ING ODONNEL to a super bowl.

Trick offense my ass. It's like saying Andy Reid is a smashmouth coach because he ran the shit out of the ball when McNabb went down for the year.


Your right, but you can't ignore the fact that Pittsburgh went to that Superbowl because of Kevin Greene, Kirkland, Greg Llyod and that defense. Kevin O'Donnell wasn't that bad anyway. Trent Dilfer winning the superbowl was far more epic than that. Also, I dont think Chan was the OC in 1995 for Pitts....

Count Alex's Losses
11-15-2009, 12:15 AM
I cannot believe people want to dump Haley.

Sure he hasn't been awesome. I don't think he's been horrible and Pioli's personnel moves haven't helped.

Haley > Pioli so far.

This "lost the team" crap I keep hearing is a line of bullshit, too. Players don't play hard for a coach who has lost them...the Chiefs have played their guts out.

KCrockaholic
11-15-2009, 12:21 AM
I cannot believe people want to dump Haley.

Sure he hasn't been awesome. I don't think he's been horrible and Pioli's personnel moves haven't helped.

Haley > Pioli so far.

This "lost the team" crap I keep hearing is a line of bullshit, too. Players don't play hard for a coach who has lost them...the Chiefs have played their guts out.

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! :)

Rausch
11-15-2009, 12:23 AM
Your right, but you can't ignore the fact that Pittsburgh went to that Superbowl because of Kevin Greene, Kirkland, Greg Llyod and that defense.

Yes, I can.

I can also call bullshit when you say the the Cowboys only went to a super bowl because of Leon Lett, Darren Woodson, and Charles Haley.

Kevin O'Donnell wasn't that bad anyway.

Who the **** is Kevin O'Donnell?

Trent Dilfer winning the superbowl was far more epic than that.

Because Trent Dilfer ****ing sucks! He sucked all year and sucked hard through most of the playoffs!

O'Donnell looked GOOD in Pitt. He left and went to the Jets and sucked out loud. I think he was out of the NFL 2 years after Pitt. Gailey knows how to take what he's got and work with it.

Rausch
11-15-2009, 12:28 AM
. Also, I dont think Chan was the OC in 1995 for Pitts....

I stand corrected. He was WR's coach in 94-95.

So he took Kordella Stewart to the NFC championchip game and made HIM look like a legit starting QB...ROFL

KCrockaholic
11-15-2009, 12:29 AM
Yes, I can.

I can also call bullshit when you say the the Cowboys only went to a super bowl because of Leon Lett, Darren Woodson, and Charles Haley.




Who the **** is Kevin O'Donnell?



Because Trent Dilfer ****ing sucks! He sucked all year and sucked hard through most of the playoffs!

O'Donnell looked GOOD in Pitt. He left and went to the Jets and sucked out loud. I think he was out of the NFL 2 years after Pitt. Gailey knows how to take what he's got and work with it.

LOL, yeah, the Cowboys offense had nothing to do with it. Of course I would say that.


Who the **** is Kevin O'Donnell?

Ok, I F'ed up, typo.


You were saying Gailey took O'Donnell to the SB like O'Donnell was some sack of crap. He wasn't nearly as terrible as you tried making him sound......Besides that....GAILEY WAS NOT THE OC IN 95'!

Count Alex's Losses
11-15-2009, 12:30 AM
I stand corrected. He was WR's coach in 94-95.

So he took Kordella Stewart to the NFC championchip game and made HIM look like a legit starting QB...ROFL

You'll notice that Gailey has no championship rings.

Maybe the fact that he felt he could get by with crappy quarterbacks because they could win regular season games is a failing...not a virtue.

Raised On Riots
11-15-2009, 12:31 AM
Hey Pal, I agree completely.

People that think that Crennel will sprinkle some sort of magic elixir and repair this defense are sadly mistaken.

Personally, I'd rather see this coaching staff and front office think a little out of the box and reach to the college ranks for an up and comer, instead of rehashing the same old tired names.

A little "hungry and lean" can go a long way.

Vermeil was the best coach we have had since 65 toss power trap...its gonna bust wide open open! IMO

RIP HS

This post makes the Fire God(ME)weep.

I cannot believe people want to dump Haley.

Sure he hasn't been awesome. I don't think he's been horrible and Pioli's personnel moves haven't helped.

Haley > Pioli so far.

This "lost the team" crap I keep hearing is a line of bullshit, too. Players don't play hard for a coach who has lost them...the Chiefs have played their guts out.

As slightly as it pains me to admit it, I do believe you are correct on this take. However, I would add that "playing their guts out" is a bit of a stretch that I would attribute more to the desire of players to weather the storm and stay employed.
I would also add that the play calling has been "erratic" at times( that's me being kind ), and that as much as I can easily admire gutsy attributes in a HC on game day, there IS some good to be taken from observing how a more conservative coach like Marty, who knew how to manage a clock.
I would finally like to add, that clock management was pretty much ALL Marty had a head for outside of defense, primarily Linebackers at that.

macdawg
11-15-2009, 12:33 AM
I cannot believe people want to dump Haley.

Sure he hasn't been awesome. I don't think he's been horrible and Pioli's personnel moves haven't helped.

Haley > Pioli so far.

This "lost the team" crap I keep hearing is a line of bullshit, too. Players don't play hard for a coach who has lost them...the Chiefs have played their guts out.

I'm willing to give Haley another year but you gotta be honest about the issue, he has been horrible, you know how the offense is and you can make a case this is the worst defense in the NFL if you judge by turnovers and sacks. Pioli cuts players with potential or benches them, but as a coach he hasn't been punished for the poor performance, some players probably notice and don't think thats fair. You don't force people to buy in to the team, you win their respect through winning. So far he hasn't been able to do that. I'll give him another year and if we can't reach 8-8 he is gone.

U Gotta remember when Herm was rebuilding nearly this entire board supported the efforts and said we would be a contender in a couple of years, simply waiting and waiting and waiting, trading your best players for picks then busting on the picks is a recipe for disaster. Being this bad year after year isn't a slump, its becoming another turd franchise like the Detroit Lions or Cleveland Browns.

Oh, and to win this game they can't let Jamarcus Russel dominate them in the 4th quarter LOL

BossChief
11-15-2009, 12:35 AM
I'm sick of this stupid bullshit.

GAILEY HAD NO CHOICE.

CHAN HAD A 3RD STRING QB WHO COULDN'T THROW FROM THE POCKET. The fact we even managed to score is ****ing astounding. He polished a turd and made it look respectable.

During Chan's run with the Steelers they won their division each year AND WENT TO A SUPER BOWL. Chan took NEIL ****ING ODONNEL to a super bowl.

Trick offense my ass. It's like saying Andy Reid is a smashmouth coach because he ran the shit out of the ball when McNabb went down for the year.
You make good points about what a steeler team did to get them over the hump to be a superbowl team. They wrent a young rebuilding team building their foundation on an unbalanced passing oriented offense with a bad oline.

I like Chan. I was happy when he was hired and was as pissed as anyone when he was fired. But, in the long term I can see why it was done. I only wish they backed up their decision with linemen that could play to give Cassel a chance to succeed.

I would be fine if we ran Haleys shotgun spread from last year, just not the damn pistol.

I get the feeling that if you were German, you'd make excuses for Hitler.

"At least he got the economy going!"

if you think that any of these position groups are outperforming expectations or playing better than the Dline is, you are a fool!

OL LOL
QB LOL
RB LOL
WR LOL
LB LOL
DB not with MB, otherwise this would be a landslide in favor of the secondary.

the Dline is the best position group we have at the moment.

You can try to clown that, but it is FACT and any attempt to argue it will result in FAIL. You know it, I know it!

DeezNutz
11-15-2009, 12:35 AM
A major saving grace for Haley is that he seems like a pretty cool guy when he talks to the media. Accepts blame. Makes some jokes. Admits he's learning.

Very refreshing.

His game day decisions, on the other hand, have been unbelievably bad thus far. Worse than Herm bad.

Rausch
11-15-2009, 12:35 AM
You'll notice that Gailey has no championship rings.

Maybe the fact that he felt he could get by with crappy quarterbacks because they could win regular season games is a failing...not a virtue.

Right.

Because HE drafted Kordella' and HE WANTED Thigpen to start and HE HAD ANY SAY in keeping a beat to piss Aikman.

:spock:

KCChiefsMan
11-15-2009, 12:36 AM
f*ck's sakes, if every coach that got fired for a bad first year after trying to take over a crap team, well....I'm sure a lot of coaches that we consider to be good or great would never have made it. 3 years minimum for a head coach, unless they are obviously incompetent, which I don't think Haley is.

KCrockaholic
11-15-2009, 12:38 AM
if you think that any of these position groups are outperforming expectations or playing better than the Dline is, you are a fool!

OL LOL
QB LOL
RB LOL
WR LOL
LB LOL
DB not with MB, otherwise this would be a landslide in favor of the secondary.

the Dline is the best position group we have at the moment.

You can try to clown that, but it is FACT and any attempt to argue it will result in FAIL. You know it, I know it!


It is really sad that DL is our best group right now considering how bad it is. But I would honestly have to say with the addition of Chambers the WR group might move ahead of DL. But if you want to break DB down into CB/S, then the CB group with Flowers and Carr easily win.

Count Alex's Losses
11-15-2009, 12:40 AM
Right.

Because HE drafted Kordella' and HE WANTED Thigpen to start and HE HAD ANY SAY in keeping a beat to piss Aikman.

:spock:

It would not surprise me if Gailey told people he could win with those quarterbacks.

Given that he was fine with going into the regular season with Sackintosh, Goff and Niswanger...it also would not surprise me if he told Pioli and Haley he could win with them.

I sort of see Gailey as the Eric Hicks of offensive coordinators...if that makes any sense.

Rausch
11-15-2009, 12:41 AM
I like Chan. I was happy when he was hired and was as pissed as anyone when he was fired. But, in the long term I can see why it was done.

Why was it done?

Gailey had only the preseason to work with the new offense.

So it makes sense to fire Chan after one (overachieving) year but not Haley?

I would be fine if we ran Haleys shotgun spread from last year, just not the damn pistol.

Why?

We have two solid HB's on this team. WTF should we run a pass happy offense with NO ONE who seems able to pass block?...

Count Alex's Losses
11-15-2009, 12:42 AM
His game day decisions, on the other hand, have been unbelievably bad thus far. Worse than Herm bad..

I disagree completely, the sense of urgency they showed last week being the prime example.

KCrockaholic
11-15-2009, 12:43 AM
f*ck's sakes, if every coach that got fired for a bad first year after trying to take over a crap team, well....I'm sure a lot of coaches that we consider to be good or great would never have made it. 3 years minimum for a head coach, unless they are obviously incompetent, which I don't think Haley is.

agree with this, and last time I checked Cleveland ran Bill Belichick out of town, and Bill Parcells first head coaching season was a disaster also.

Rausch
11-15-2009, 12:44 AM
It would not surprise me if Gailey told people he could win with those quarterbacks.

Given that he was fine with going into the regular season with Sackintosh, Goff and Niswanger...it also would not surprise me if he told Pioli and Haley he could win with them.


Who knows if he could have won with them?
I'm sure he could have won one ****ing game...

I sort of see Gailey as the Eric Hicks of offensive coordinators...if that makes any sense.

I couldn't disagree more.

Gailey has taken average to piss-poor players and made them productive his entire career...

Count Alex's Losses
11-15-2009, 12:46 AM
I couldn't disagree more.

Gailey has taken average to piss-poor players and made them productive his entire career...

Productive...but never elite.

Don't you think it's a little fishy that no one wants Chan Gailey as a head coach?

DaneMcCloud
11-15-2009, 12:50 AM
if you think that any of these position groups are outperforming expectations or playing better than the Dline is, you are a fool!



Considering the fact that the D-Line features not one but TWO TOP FIVE DRAFT CHOICES, they'd better be GOOD (which they're not).

Furthermore Junior, you stated that Hali and Vrabel were productive due to the D-line.

That couldn't be any further from the truth.

Rausch
11-15-2009, 12:52 AM
Don't you think it's a little fishy that no one wants Chan Gailey as a head coach?

No.

He's a great offensive coordinator. He's not a great HC.

I'd wet my pants if we hired Dom Capers as DC to run a 3-4. I wouldn't be nearly as pleased if we fired Haley and made him HC.

I'd let Pioli bang my mom if he hired Dick LeBeau as DC. I don't see anyone knocking his door down to be a HC either...

Count Alex's Losses
11-15-2009, 12:53 AM
Considering the fact that the D-Line features not one but TWO TOP FIVE DRAFT CHOICES, they'd better be GOOD (which they're not).


Jackson is rated as the WORST 3-4 defensive end on profootballfocus.com

And it is not even close.

In fact, if anyone has noticed, the Chiefs have replaced him with Glenn Dorsey in the nickel package quite a bit because his pass rush blows.

Count Alex's Losses
11-15-2009, 12:55 AM
No.

He's a great offensive coordinator.

Mike Martz is a great OC.

I'm too lazy to check but I'd bet money Gailey has never had an offense finish in the top 10 in both points and yards.

DaneMcCloud
11-15-2009, 12:56 AM
Jackson is rated as the WORST 3-4 defensive end on profootballfocus.com

And it is not even close.

In fact, if anyone has noticed, the Chiefs have replaced him with Glenn Dorsey in the nickel package quite a bit because his pass rush blows.

On draft day in April, I stated that the 2009 draft would be referred to as the worst in Chiefs history, people laughed and wanted to know if I was "okay".

Funny.

BossChief
11-15-2009, 12:57 AM
I cannot believe people want to dump Haley.

Sure he hasn't been awesome. I don't think he's been horrible and Pioli's personnel moves haven't helped.

Haley > Pioli so far.

This "lost the team" crap I keep hearing is a line of bullshit, too. Players don't play hard for a coach who has lost them...the Chiefs have played their guts out.
I agree that he has not even begun to lose the team. Matter of fact I bet anything they have already been talking openly in the lockerroom and around the facilities about how good it feels not to have LJ around and how they are glad Haley did something. He said they had their best friday ever yesterday.
I stand corrected. He was WR's coach in 94-95.

So he took Kordella Stewart to the NFC championchip game and made HIM look like a legit starting QB...ROFL

He NEVER looked like a legit starting QB. He was always 'slash' even when they tried to make him a pocket passer over the years
.



Why was it done?

Gailey had only the preseason to work with the new offense.

So it makes sense to fire Chan after one (overachieving) year but not Haley?



Why?

We have two solid HB's on this team. WTF should we run a pass happy offense with NO ONE who seems able to pass block?...

How do you know Chan only had the preseason to work with the new offense and that Haley didnt fire him so he could install HIS playbook at that point? You may know something I dont here...I was under the perception that they were using Chans book till Haley fired him.


Gailey has taken average to piss-poor players and made them productive his entire career...

This I agree with 100%, he took what was given and made the best of it.

I just dont think there was enough space for two elephants in the room

Count Alex's Losses
11-15-2009, 12:58 AM
In April, I stated that the 2009 draft would be the worst in Chiefs history, people laughed and wanted to know if I was "okay".

Funny.

At this point you wonder if the Chiefs grossly miscalculated Jackson's ability to play in a 3-4.

Just think, we could have had Jared Allen, Tank Tyler, Glenn Dorsey and Tyson Jackson with Tamba Hali coming in off the bench.

DaneMcCloud
11-15-2009, 12:59 AM
At this point you wonder if the Chiefs grossly miscalculated Jackson's ability to play in a 3-4.

Just think, we could have had Jared Allen, Tank Tyler, Glenn Dorsey and Tyson Jackson with Tamba Hali coming in off the bench.

And Rey Maualuga and Mark Sanchez and Kraig Urbick and Louis Murphy and...

macdawg
11-15-2009, 01:03 AM
if you think that any of these position groups are outperforming expectations or playing better than the Dline is, you are a fool!


sir this team is 31st in sacks and 27th against the run. No defensive back will be dominant on a team like this I don't care who they are, IMO Carr and Flowers are doing good considering the weak pass rush and I blame to weak pass rush for the reason Chiefs are 32nd in INT's.

macdawg
11-15-2009, 01:05 AM
Mike Martz is a great OC.

I'm too lazy to check but I'd bet money Gailey has never had an offense finish in the top 10 in both points and yards.

Gailey would have torn it up just as well as Haley if he had Warner, Fitz, Bolden and the rest of the Cards. Anyone who thought this teams problems were from Gailey severely mixed up. Rausch has been dead on.

DaneMcCloud
11-15-2009, 01:06 AM
sir this team is 31st in sacks and 27th against the run. No defensive back will be dominant on a team like this I don't care who they are, IMO Carr and Flowers are doing good considering the weak pass rush and I blame to weak pass rush for the reason Chiefs are 32nd in INT's.

BossChief is passionate. But he doesn't get "it".

KCChiefsFan88
11-15-2009, 01:10 AM
I could see Pioli forcing Haley into making some changes to his coaching staff, i.e. hiring a full-time offensive coordinator.

I could also see Pioli forcing Haley to "Patriotize" the coaching staff with the likes of Charlie Weis (assuming he is fired by Notre Dame) and Romeo Crennel this offseason.

Rausch
11-15-2009, 01:13 AM
He NEVER looked like a legit starting QB.

2001
As starting quarterback, Stewart led the 2001 Steelers to a 13–3 regular-season record and the top seed in the AFC playoffs. Under the tutelage of new QB coach Tom Clements and new offensive coordinator Mike Mularkey, Stewart had his best year as a pro, throwing for over 3,000 yards, completing 60 percent of his passes, and attaining a passer rating of 81.7. He threw for 14 TDs and ran for 5 more. Stewart was elected to the Pro Bowl and was named the Steelers MVP.

Sounds like he "looked" legit that season.



How do you know Chan only had the preseason to work with the new offense and that Haley didnt fire him so he could install HIS playbook at that point?

I don't get what you're trying to say here.

I know Chan only had the preseason to work with this offense because he was fired before the regular season.

That's...all he had.



I just dont think there was enough space for two elephants in the room

I think Haley wanted to run the offense and call plays from day one but had to at least play the game. Make it look like he gave Chan a chance.

Silock
11-15-2009, 01:13 AM
On draft day in April, I stated that the 2009 draft would be referred to as the worst in Chiefs history, people laughed and wanted to know if I was "okay".

Funny.

I don't know about the worst in history, but so far, it's pretty bad. At least there's nowhere to go but up.

Drafting Todd Blackledge was probably the worst drafting decision we made, considering the other options of that ridiculous class.

macdawg
11-15-2009, 01:13 AM
as long as Haley and Weis didn't butt heads too much, that would be amazing to have him and Crennel, JMO

KCrockaholic
11-15-2009, 01:14 AM
I could see Pioli forcing Haley into making some changes to his coaching staff, i.e. hiring a full-time offensive coordinator.

I could also see Pioli forcing Haley to "Patriotize" the coaching staff with the likes of Charlie Weis (assuming he is fired by Notre Dame) and Romeo Crennel this offseason.

I would rather not see Weis in KC. But Crennel on the other hand I would love to have.

BossChief
11-15-2009, 01:14 AM
Considering the fact that the D-Line features not one but TWO TOP FIVE DRAFT CHOICES, they'd better be GOOD (which they're not).

Furthermore Junior, you stated that Hali and Vrabel were productive due to the D-line.

That couldn't be any further from the truth.

Dorsey is playing as well as can be expected given what he is being asked to do. He is kicking ass and taking names. Go look at some gif'ds up if you want some examples. HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A FLOP AT 3-4 END WANT HE?

I also love it how in your world rookie dlinemen just come into the NFL and dominate right off the bat. It is foolish to ask one to even look average. But he did look very good in the last game. Also keep in mind we really dont have a true NT, the most important part of any 3-4, and it is still the strongest point on the team so far.

Jackson is rated as the WORST 3-4 defensive end on profootballfocus.com

And it is not even close.

In fact, if anyone has noticed, the Chiefs have replaced him with Glenn Dorsey in the nickel package quite a bit because his pass rush blows.

Rookie Dlinemen are almost never rated highly. Lets just see how he finishes the year and see if he continues to get better...that is how you judge the coach, not how he starts. Dorsey started playing well in the last two or three games last year and has continued tto get better every game.

On draft day in April, I stated that the 2009 draft would be referred to as the worst in Chiefs history, people laughed and wanted to know if I was "okay".

Funny.

Yeah, you really should claim victory on that. After all the whole rookie class is garbage after 8 games.

JFC

It could have been better, the worst in Chiefs history? That is foolish! WE HAVE TWO PLAYERS FROM THE WHOLE 5 YEAR, DICK VERMIEL ERA OF DRAFTING! One is a punter, the other is a linebacker that will be gone next year if he doesnt wake up good one day before that.

I wonder about you and evidently others have too.

Are you "okay"?

Raised On Riots
11-15-2009, 01:16 AM
And Rey Maualuga and Mark Sanchez and Kraig Urbick and Louis Murphy and...

DeCosta and Ryan/Ferentz...

That would have been a HUGE gamble for Clark to take, but I'd still be somewhat curious as to how it could have panned out given our current situation and hindsight.

I could honestly give two flying fucks about USC, but ROR knows mojo, you sad-sack motherfuckers, and Maualuga/Sanchez is a decade-plus worth of mojo-bag goodness had someone, anyone in the NFL had the foresight to put them both on the same team.

And fuck you if that thought hurts your True Fan feelings; you're a weak fucking specimen and I could care less.

Tuckdaddy
11-15-2009, 01:16 AM
This. I think Romeo Crennel will be our new DC and Haley will hire some up and comer to be the OC.


get martz

KCChiefsFan88
11-15-2009, 01:18 AM
get martz

I'd prefer Al Saunders.

Rausch
11-15-2009, 01:19 AM
At this point you wonder if the Chiefs grossly miscalculated Jackson's ability to play in a 3-4.

1) You don't draft a 3-4 DE in the first fucking 10 picks.

2) Our defensive line coach is $#it.

3) Our defensive coordinator (is STILL) $#it.

4) He's a rookie in a 3-4.

I really don't think there's any way to tell how good he is or isn't at this point...

Raised On Riots
11-15-2009, 01:20 AM
I don't know about the worst in history, but so far, it's pretty bad. At least there's nowhere to go but up.

Drafting Todd Blackledge was probably the worst drafting decision we made, considering the other options of that ridiculous class.

The worst decision was the decades of cowering behind the excuse of one bad pick.

This is the Life; SHIT HAPPENS.

KCrockaholic
11-15-2009, 01:21 AM
I'd prefer Al Saunders.

Please!! We need some F***in motion back in our offense.

Rausch
11-15-2009, 01:22 AM
get martz

...

KCrockaholic
11-15-2009, 01:24 AM
1) You don't draft a 3-4 DE in the first ****ing 10 picks.

2) Our defensive line coach is $#it.

3) Our defensive coordinator (is STILL) $#it.

4) He's a rookie in a 3-4.

I really don't think there's any way to tell how good he is or isn't at this point...

Give him until after next year to make an impact at the least.

BossChief
11-15-2009, 01:24 AM
sir this team is 31st in sacks and 27th against the run. No defensive back will be dominant on a team like this I don't care who they are, IMO Carr and Flowers are doing good considering the weak pass rush and I blame to weak pass rush for the reason Chiefs are 32nd in INT's.

that doesnt mean the dline is the reason for it. That is the exact reason I have been so gung ho about hopefully hiring Wade Phillips and drafting Suh and Selvie. It all starts up front. I even said that Berry kinda scares me a little because of how Mike Huff turned out in Oakland. Huff was a superb prospect as well.
2001
As starting quarterback, Stewart led the 2001 Steelers to a 13–3 regular-season record and the top seed in the AFC playoffs. Under the tutelage of new QB coach Tom Clements and new offensive coordinator Mike Mularkey, Stewart had his best year as a pro, throwing for over 3,000 yards, completing 60 percent of his passes, and attaining a passer rating of 81.7. He threw for 14 TDs and ran for 5 more. Stewart was elected to the Pro Bowl and was named the Steelers MVP.

Sounds like he "looked" legit that season.





I don't get what you're trying to say here.

I know Chan only had the preseason to work with this offense because he was fired before the regular season.

That's...all he had.





I think Haley wanted to run the offense and call plays from day one but had to at least play the game. Make it look like he gave Chan a chance.

In his first 11 starts, Tyler Thigpen threw for 2608 yards and threw 18 td passes to only 12 interceptions, he also rushed for almost 400 more yards and added another 3 touchdowns.

Was he legit?

Rausch
11-15-2009, 01:30 AM
In his first 11 starts, Tyler Thigpen threw for 2608 yards and threw 18 td passes to only 12 interceptions, he also rushed for almost 400 more yards and added another 3 touchdowns.

Was he legit?

That's my whole ****ing point!

Chan has had $3it to work with as an OC and STILL made his offensive players productive.

It's like blaming Macgyver for not inventing a working missile defense system. All you gave the guy was a ****ing tampax, a stick of bubblegum, and a damned paperclip and he managed to blow open a jail cell and kill 6 russian spies!

WHAT THE ****!?!

BossChief
11-15-2009, 01:30 AM
DeCosta and Ryan/Ferentz...

That would have been a HUGE gamble for Clark to take, but I'd still be somewhat curious as to how it could have panned out given our current situation and hindsight.

I could honestly give two flying ****s about USC, but ROR knows mojo, you sad-sack mother****ers, and Maualuga/Sanchez is a decade-plus worth of mojo-bag goodness had someone, anyone in the NFL had the foresight to put them both on the same team.

And **** you if that thought hurts your True Fan feelings; you're a weak ****ing specimen and I could care less.

I was never fully decided on Gm, but it wa between him and SP...Ferentz was my first choice as HC. Haslett as DC and keeping Chan as OC

Please!! We need some F***in motion back in our offense.

THIS

Silock
11-15-2009, 01:31 AM
The worst decision was the decades of cowering behind the excuse of one bad pick.

This is the Life; SHIT HAPPENS.

Sure, shit happens. That doesn't make it not the worst decision, though.

Count Alex's Losses
11-15-2009, 01:31 AM
You can say as much as you want about bla bla bla he's a rookie, but Jackson's run defense not even at the bottom of the sea. It's underneath the earth's crust and sinking to the molten core:

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=DE4&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=0&numgames=1

Silock
11-15-2009, 01:32 AM
that doesnt mean the dline is the reason for it. That is the exact reason I have been so gung ho about hopefully hiring Wade Phillips and drafting Suh and Selvie. It all starts up front. I even said that Berry kinda scares me a little because of how Mike Huff turned out in Oakland. Huff was a superb prospect as well.


Berry looks way more legit than Huff did. Huff was projected to be good. Berry is projected to be the next Ed Reed. I think there's a slightly different set of expectations for him.

Silock
11-15-2009, 01:32 AM
You can say as much as you want about bla bla bla he's a rookie, but Jackson's run defense not even at the bottom of the sea. It's underneath the earth's crust and sinking to the molten core:

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=DE4&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=0&numgames=1

NFL China, here he comes!

Rausch
11-15-2009, 01:35 AM
Berry looks way more legit than Huff did. Huff was projected to be good. Berry is projected to be the next Ed Reed. I think there's a slightly different set of expectations for him.

So he's the next Dorsey?...

Raised On Riots
11-15-2009, 01:36 AM
Sure, shit happens. That doesn't make it not the worst decision, though.

I'll go ahead and agree based purely on the long-term ramifications it brought to the franchise and the culture overall.

Silock
11-15-2009, 01:37 AM
So he's the next Dorsey?...

Expectations don't always translate, obviously. I would hope he's not the next Dorsey, because I have a feeling he'll be a Chief next year.

Silock
11-15-2009, 01:39 AM
I'll go ahead and agree based purely on the long-term ramifications it brought to the franchise and the culture overall.

That was my point in picking that moment. I don't think we'll be looking back at this year's draft class for years cursing the day we picked Tyson Jackson more than any other recent year that we spend cursing the day we picked *insert player*.

Drafting Todd fucked us long and hard spanning two decades.

Rausch
11-15-2009, 01:39 AM
Expectations don't always translate, obviously. I would hope he's not the next Dorsey, because I have a feeling he'll be a Chief next year.

Is he a safety?

Are the Chiefs looking at drafting him?

By all means, explain why my skepticism is unwarranted...

macdawg
11-15-2009, 01:40 AM
that doesnt mean the dline is the reason for it.

The d-line has to take some responsibility for this defense being 31st in sacks and 27th against the run, JMO

Silock
11-15-2009, 01:40 AM
Is he a safety?

Are the Chiefs looking at drafting him?

By all means, explain why my skepticism is unwarranted...

Skepticism about what? I'm just saying that the expectations for Berry are higher than they were for Huff. That's all. What are YOU talking about?

Rausch
11-15-2009, 01:44 AM
Skepticism about what? I'm just saying that the expectations for Berry are higher than they were for Huff. That's all. What are YOU talking about?

The Chiefs haven't drafted a safety worth a $3it in I don't know how long.

Silock
11-15-2009, 01:46 AM
The Chiefs haven't drafted a safety worth a $3it in I don't know how long.

I agree. I don't know if he'll be any good. It's a crapshoot. But the expectations are that he'll be great.

I feel like I've said this before :hmmm:

Rausch
11-15-2009, 01:48 AM
I agree. I don't know if he'll be any good. It's a crapshoot. But the expectations are that he'll be great.

I feel like I've said this before :hmmm:

It's a sore spot for me.

Every year we draft (and reach) on a safety who either sucks or we move him out of position.

And then he sucks.

Or he just sucks and we cut him.

I would argue the Chiefs have had more failures at that position than at QB and HB combined...

BossChief
11-15-2009, 01:52 AM
That's my whole ****ing point!

Chan has had $3it to work with as an OC and STILL made his offensive players productive.

It's like blaming Macgyver for not inventing a working missile defense system. All you gave the guy was a ****ing tampax, a stick of bubblegum, and a damned paperclip and he managed to blow open jail cell and kill 6 russian spies!

WHAT THE ****!?!

People aren't always arguing with you, man. Just because my overall opinion differs from yours on some details doesn't mean I don't agree with some of the points. In fact, I agree with most of them that you have made here.

Rausch
11-15-2009, 02:11 AM
People aren't always arguing with you, man.

I wish that were true.

But since you're still somewhat n00b here I'll fill you in on a secret: I mix my points with humor and a healthy helping of giving people a hard time in good-natured fun.

I do not take anything on here personally and I'd hope you don't either.

Just because my overall opinion differs from yours on some details doesn't mean I don't agree with some of the points.

...

http://drunkenachura.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/dude-wait-what.jpg

BossChief
11-15-2009, 02:15 AM
The d-line has to take some responsibility for this defense being 31st in sacks and 27th against the run, JMO

I wish that were true.

But since you're still somewhat n00b here I'll fill you in on a secret: I mix my points with humor and a healthy helping of giving people a hard time in good-natured fun.

I do not take anything on here personally and I'd hope you don't either.



...

http://drunkenachura.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/dude-wait-what.jpg

Word, Dogg?

BossChief
11-15-2009, 02:25 AM
i also would like to say that I am still learning to mix the right amount of complete asshole into my posts, but I think I am growing in that field each day.

I enjoy the constant fire this place has, I find that more comes from disagreements than constant agreements.

THAT IS WHAT MAKES CP THE KING OF THE JUNGLE!

Rausch
11-15-2009, 02:39 AM
i also would like to say that I am still learning to mix the right amount of complete asshole into my posts, but I think I am growing in that field each day.

Just go with what feels natural.
:evil:

BossChief
11-15-2009, 02:53 AM
Just go with what feels natural.
:evil:

Consider this:

I have been posting on the Coalition for years where it is against the tos to name call or to have any personal attack, so I have grown accustomed to posting that way. Here, if I feel someones "dumb bone" is shining through, I can point and laugh as loud as I want.

The weird part is that you can say fuck over there and it doesnt get filtered because you can curse all you want, here you cant curse without it being sensored but you can attack anyone you want without it being wrong. Its bass ackwards

Rausch
11-15-2009, 03:02 AM
Consider this:

I have been posting on the Coalition for years where it is against the tos to name call or to have any personal attack, so I have grown accustomed to posting that way. Here, if I feel someones "dumb bone" is shining through, I can point and laugh as loud as I want.

The weird part is that you can say **** over there and it doesnt get filtered because you can curse all you want, here you cant curse without it being sensored but you can attack anyone you want without it being wrong. Its bass ackwards

Over here you're pretty much free to do what you want.

If you're a douche you'll get run off. It won't be worth your time to bother posting.

And it really doesn't matter how many fucking asterisks you use to cover a word it's still pretty fucking clear what you mean to fucking say...

DeezNutz
11-15-2009, 06:22 AM
Consider this:

I have been posting on the Coalition for years where it is against the tos to name call or to have any personal attack, so I have grown accustomed to posting that way. Here, if I feel someones "dumb bone" is shining through, I can point and laugh as loud as I want.

The weird part is that you can say **** over there and it doesnt get filtered because you can curse all you want, here you cant curse without it being sensored but you can attack anyone you want without it being wrong. Its bass ackwards

We're far too cultured around here for cursing.

We're the Firebird to the Coalition's Camaro--similar packaging, but a clear grade higher.

milkman
11-15-2009, 08:36 AM
Parcells and Sparano took a 1-15 team and turned them into an 11-5 team their first year. Was the 1-15 Dolphin team that more talented than last year's 2-14 Chiefs?

Actually, they were more talented than the 2-14 Chiefs.

Parcells and Jeff Ireland brought in a few quality vets, and a mediocre but productive QB, and made improvements to the O-Line.

Essentially they built the 90s Chiefs.

I'm not sold on Pioli's plan, but I'd rather rebuild through the draft and take a little longer than build a another Martyocre type playoff lossing team.

milkman
11-15-2009, 08:38 AM
Vermeil was the best coach we have had since 65 toss power trap...its gonna bust wide open open! IMO

RIP HS

As much as I hated Marty, he, not Dick, was the best coach this team has had since Stram, though I might argue under different circumstances that Marv Levy could have been.

milkman
11-15-2009, 08:40 AM
we were the only team he HCd that he didnt lead to a championship game. College and pros.

Its a damn shame the man wouldn't know an average defensive player when he saw one to help him win.

FYP

milkman
11-15-2009, 08:50 AM
Productive...but never elite.

Don't you think it's a little fishy that no one wants Chan Gailey as a head coach?

What Gailey does is take piss poor to average players productive through scheme and game plan.

Your HC is the guy who motivates player to achieve above the level of their talent as a team.

That's why Gailey isn't HC material.

He's not a leader.
He's a schemer.

milkman
11-15-2009, 09:03 AM
The d-line has to take some responsibility for this defense being 31st in sacks and 27th against the run, JMO

Ron Edwards is just a body filling a spot on the line.
Tyson Jackson is a roookie, who you shouldn't expect too much from yet.
Dorsey is playing at a high level, getting penetration and commanding attention.

If Hali was anything more than a servicable OLB, he'd be getting into the backfield and blowing things up far more often than he has because of the play of Dorsey.

But we have what we have.

A couple of up and coming players in Dorsey and Flowers, and really just a bunch of scrubs and an old guy playing past his prime around them.

milkman
11-15-2009, 09:08 AM
Consider this:

I have been posting on the Coalition for years where it is against the tos to name call or to have any personal attack, so I have grown accustomed to posting that way. Here, if I feel someones "dumb bone" is shining through, I can point and laugh as loud as I want.

The weird part is that you can say **** over there and it doesnt get filtered because you can curse all you want, here you cant curse without it being sensored but you can attack anyone you want without it being wrong. Its bass ackwards

Actually, there are filter options around, I believe, and you can shut off the filter, so you can see the word "fuck" in all it's fucking glory if you choose.

Me....I don't care enough to shut it off.

If you say fuck, I can tell that you said fuck, so fuck it.

Is that clear motherfucker?

kstater
11-15-2009, 09:16 AM
Herm did take the Chiefs to the playoffs his first year. Just sayin.......

Jesus fucking Christ. This is quite possibly the dumbest fucking post in CP history. And there are thousands of dumb fucking posts.

chiefzilla1501
11-15-2009, 10:04 AM
The d-line has to take some responsibility for this defense being 31st in sacks and 27th against the run, JMO

Some responsibility, but not all of it.

The run defense would be significantly better if our LBs/Safeties didn't give up big plays because they failed in their gap responsibilities.

The pass defense would be significantly better if our back 7 was capable of making any plays in pass coverage. If our safeties actually had the mind to move toward the play instead of reacting to them. I also think that Edwards' ineffectiveness to move the pile back gives QBs way too much room to wiggle around.

They haven't been great, but they're definitely not the biggest problem. The problem is largely in our LBs and especially our Safeties.

macdawg
11-15-2009, 11:49 AM
The pass defense would be significantly better if our back 7 was capable of making any plays in pass coverage.

They are incapable mostly because of the lack of pass rush. Coverage sacks are the exception, not the norm. To have good DB play you need a pass rush. Just like we saw last year, just like we saw Champ Bailey get beat occasionally when Denver didn't have a very good pass rush.

"Ron Edwards is just a body filling a spot on the line."

fine

"Tyson Jackson is a roookie, who you shouldn't expect too much from yet."

he's the 3rd overall pick and I don't think he has a sack or a stop for a loss yet

"Dorsey is playing at a high level, getting penetration and commanding attention."

I haven't seen anyone on this defense playing at what I'd call a high level.

I think this defense will be horrid until they get a pass rush, JMO

milkman
11-15-2009, 11:56 AM
They are incapable mostly because of the lack of pass rush. Coverage sacks are the exception, not the norm. To have good DB play you need a pass rush. Just like we saw last year, just like we saw Champ Bailey get beat occasionally when Denver didn't have a very good pass rush.

"Ron Edwards is just a body filling a spot on the line."

fine

"Tyson Jackson is a roookie, who you shouldn't expect too much from yet."

he's the 3rd overall pick and I don't think he has a sack or a stop for a loss yet

"Dorsey is playing at a high level, getting penetration and commanding attention."

I haven't seen anyone on this defense playing at what I'd call a high level.

I think this defense will be horrid until they get a pass rush, JMO

Clearly, you're a dumbass who doesn't have a clue what he should be looking for from a 5 tech.

BossChief
11-15-2009, 12:33 PM
Actually, there are filter options around, I believe, and you can shut off the filter, so you can see the word "****" in all it's ****ing glory if you choose.

Me....I don't care enough to shut it off.

If you say ****, I can tell that you said ****, so **** it.

Is that clear mother****er?well, fuck you!

Clearly, you're a dumbass who doesn't have a clue what he should be looking for from a 5 tech.
Im glad Im not the only one that realizes that. I am beginning to have my questions about Mr unicorns though...
They are incapable mostly because of the lack of pass rush. Coverage sacks are the exception, not the norm. To have good DB play you need a pass rush. Just like we saw last year, just like we saw Champ Bailey get beat occasionally when Denver didn't have a very good pass rush.

"Ron Edwards is just a body filling a spot on the line."

fine

"Tyson Jackson is a roookie, who you shouldn't expect too much from yet."

he's the 3rd overall pick and I don't think he has a sack or a stop for a loss yet

"Dorsey is playing at a high level, getting penetration and commanding attention."

I haven't seen anyone on this defense playing at what I'd call a high level.

I think this defense will be horrid until they get a pass rush, JMO

The bolded statements are ignorant as all beat hell, your dumb fucking ass should order NFL sunday ticket and watch the fucking dline. For starters though, go to gochiefs gif'd up thread and watch some of Dorseys work, he is whooping ass weekly.

After all that, if you still feel the dline isnt doing well, your and idiot!

chiefzilla1501
11-15-2009, 01:49 PM
They are incapable mostly because of the lack of pass rush. Coverage sacks are the exception, not the norm. To have good DB play you need a pass rush. Just like we saw last year, just like we saw Champ Bailey get beat occasionally when Denver didn't have a very good pass rush.

"Ron Edwards is just a body filling a spot on the line."

fine

"Tyson Jackson is a roookie, who you shouldn't expect too much from yet."

he's the 3rd overall pick and I don't think he has a sack or a stop for a loss yet

"Dorsey is playing at a high level, getting penetration and commanding attention."

I haven't seen anyone on this defense playing at what I'd call a high level.

I think this defense will be horrid until they get a pass rush, JMO

it's always a chicken or an egg argument.

What I do know is that great safeties make plays. Average safeties wait for plays to come to them.

Watch Polamalu and then watch Mike Brown. Polamalu flies to the ball because he is two steps ahead of the QB. Brown almost never anticipates the play and you'll see that in most cases, he is 2-3 steps away from making a play. A lot of the big deep pass plays occurred because our safety was one step too late and the ball just slipped past their grasp.

I read an article somewhere that said that David Garrard mentioned that the Chiefs' zone is so predictable that he could pick his spots and feel almost completely confident that an open receiver would be there. He said they move a lot of players around the defensive line, but the zone coverage is always the same predictable vanilla.

The two spots we're getting killed most is our shitty safeties. And because our nickel backs are a rotation of suck. And our D-coordinator's scheme is shitty and predictable.

Count Alex's Losses
11-15-2009, 01:52 PM
At least the rain decided to come down now and not during the KC game.

Johnny Vegas
11-15-2009, 02:30 PM
Jesus ****ing Christ. This is quite possibly the dumbest ****ing post in CP history. And there are thousands of dumb ****ing posts.

shove it up your ass

KCChiefsFan88
11-15-2009, 02:45 PM
I'm not sold on Pioli's plan, but I'd rather rebuild through the draft and take a little longer than build a another Martyocre type playoff lossing team.

If you would rather rebuild through the draft you better hope that Pioli has a more productive draft than the shit he drafted this past year.

It is pretty pathetic that the most productive player from Pioli's first draft class is the last overall pick in the draft... a kicker.

macdawg
11-15-2009, 02:45 PM
it's always a chicken or an egg argument.

What I do know is that great safeties make plays. Average safeties wait for plays to come to them.

Watch Polamalu and then watch Mike Brown. Polamalu flies to the ball because he is two steps ahead of the QB. Brown almost never anticipates the play and you'll see that in most cases, he is 2-3 steps away from making a play. A lot of the big deep pass plays occurred because our safety was one step too late and the ball just slipped past their grasp.

I read an article somewhere that said that David Garrard mentioned that the Chiefs' zone is so predictable that he could pick his spots and feel almost completely confident that an open receiver would be there. He said they move a lot of players around the defensive line, but the zone coverage is always the same predictable vanilla.

The two spots we're getting killed most is our shitty safeties. And because our nickel backs are a rotation of suck. And our D-coordinator's scheme is shitty and predictable.

I agree on all counts really. But I think the most important thing in a defense is the pass rush because its the biggest cause of turnovers, which are probably the most important stat in football at the end of the day. Coverage sacks are the exception, not the norm, usually turnovers come from pressure. I'm not happy with our safeties at all, I do want to stick with our young corners though and I think they've played well considering the defense they are on.

BossChief you got a link showing Tyson Jackson has a sack or a stop for a loss? If not please STFU & don't turn into a hypersensitive bitch if someone doesn't think the Dline is the best unit on this team.

DaWolf
11-15-2009, 07:15 PM
After listening to the game announcers talk about their convo with Haley, I am now convinced we're going to look for an OC this offseason to take things off his plate and let him worry about managing the team...

Raised On Riots
11-15-2009, 07:19 PM
After listening to the game announcers talk about their convo with Haley, I am now convinced we're going to look for an OC this offseason to take things off his plate and let him worry about managing the team...

That'll work.

|Zach|
11-15-2009, 07:21 PM
If you would rather rebuild through the draft you better hope that Pioli has a more productive draft than the shit he drafted this past year.

It is pretty pathetic that the most productive player from Pioli's first draft class is the last overall pick in the draft... a kicker.
Spoken like a true message board sports genius.

KCChiefsFan88
11-15-2009, 11:11 PM
Spoken like a true message board sports genius.

The so called "Patriots Way", relies on a pretty heavy dose of free agency/trades to build a roster (see Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Corey Dillon, Adelius Thomas, etc.)

And if you are going to rely on building through the draft, you better figure out how to draft Seymours/Wilforks/Bradys with your draft picks rather than the mediocre draft class Pioli hauled in with his first KC draft.

Other than Succop, which player from Pioli's first draft has had a significant impact this season?

DaneMcCloud
11-15-2009, 11:22 PM
Spoken like a true message board sports genius.

How can you possibly dispute this position?

Raised On Riots
11-15-2009, 11:36 PM
The so called "Patriots Way", relies on a pretty heavy dose of free agency/trades to build a roster (see Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Corey Dillon, Adelius Thomas, etc.)

And if you are going to rely on building through the draft, you better figure out how to draft Seymours/Wilforks/Bradys with your draft picks rather than the mediocre draft class Pioli hauled in with his first KC draft.

Other than Succop, which player from Pioli's first draft has had a significant impact this season?

I would happily settle for:

a) Understands the difference between an offense-heavy and defense-heavy draft talent-wise, and

b) Understands that impact players/elite talent trump "mediocrity in numbers"/more picks for about the next five drafts in order to build a winner out of this anemic roster of ours.