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DaWolf
11-16-2009, 11:30 PM
Chiefs coach Haley finding out it’s not easy making the decisions (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1574425.html)

During his 12 years as an assistant coach, the critical game decisions that a head coach has to make always looked simple to Todd Haley.

“When I was an assistant,” Haley said Monday, “I had all the answers.”

Those answers are proving more elusive to Haley in his first year as the Chiefs’ head coach. Many of his game decisions have been puzzling, and not merely because they haven’t worked out in Kansas City’s favor.

“It’s difficult,” Haley acknowledged. “Ultimately, you’re responsible for how they all turn out.”

The latest examples of Haley’s questionable game management came in Sunday’s 16-10 win over the Raiders in Oakland. With the Chiefs in easy field-goal range for kicker Ryan Succop, Haley ordered the Chiefs to try and convert on fourth and 1 in the third quarter and with a three-point lead.

The play failed when quarterback Matt Cassel threw an incomplete pass. The three points they didn’t get from a field-goal attempt could have come in handy against a low-scoring team like the Raiders.

All head coaches wrestle with such decisions. New England’s Bill Belichick was roundly criticized for having the Patriots try to convert on fourth and 2 in their end of the field late in Sunday’s game against Indianapolis rather than punt and make the Colts go the long field for a game-winning touchdown.

The Patriots failed to convert, and the Colts won after taking possession with favorable field position. (Story, B3.)

But Belichick has three Super Bowl wins on his head coaching résumé. Haley is still trying to find his way, and this part of his coaching game is — to use a term he favors in many situations — a work in progress.

“I’m learning, and those decisions until you’re actually the guy having to make those decisions on a game basis … you learn through experience,” he said.

Haley said he was most upset about his decision to have Succop try a 52-yard field goal in the third quarter. Succop missed the kick, and the Raiders used the favorable field position to try a field goal of their own.

That one missed, so the Chiefs lost nothing. But Haley is still haunted by it.

“I was on the walkie-talkie deal telling the (assistant) coaches, ‘Why didn’t somebody tell me to punt?’ ” Haley said. “That was the one that I should have thought out a little clearer. We had a chance to change field position or keep field position in our favor. If we could have pinned them there and got the ball back in good field position, then we could have really turned the game.”

Haley said he relies on some of the assistant coaches for advice when making critical decisions. But sideline squabbles between Haley and his assistants have been common this season, the latest being a profanity-laced shouting match with running-backs coach Maurice Carthon on Sunday.

Those quarrels suggest the assistants may not be comfortable disagreeing with Haley and telling him things he doesn’t want to hear, though Haley disagreed.

“Yeah, especially some of them,” Haley said. “(Carthon) is the most important guy I have, no disrespect to anyone else, and somebody I’ve looked up to from the first day we’ve ever been around each other. We’re friends, and we’ve worked together a bunch. We’re both emotional and passionate guys.”

Before coming to the Chiefs, Haley worked as an assistant with several of the coaches on his current staff, including Carthon, defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast and special-teams coach Steve Hoffman, plus position coaches Gary Gibbs (linebackers) and Bill Muir (offensive line).

One feature that his staff lacks, though, is a former NFL head coach to advise him through such decisions. Chan Gailey was the head coach for the Cowboys for two seasons in the late 1990s, but he was fired by Haley during the preseason.

As things stand now, among Haley’s staff only Gibbs has head coaching experience, that coming in college at Oklahoma more than a decade ago.

“I don’t think that’s a necessity,” Haley said. “I think it’s a luxury or a bonus if you have it. There are enough guys on our staff that I really, really rely on and respect their thoughts in all of those situations.”

CaliforniaChief
11-16-2009, 11:35 PM
Having an OC he can trust to call the plays would free him up to focus on some of these game strategy decisions that have cost or nearly cost us this season.

Raised On Riots
11-17-2009, 03:16 AM
"I was on the walkie-talkie deal telling the (assistant) coaches, ‘Why didn’t somebody tell me to punt?’ ” Haley said.

Cause I likes having a job, Boss?

Blick
11-17-2009, 04:08 AM
Did I catch a niner in there? Were ya calling from a walkie talkie?

Marco Polo
11-17-2009, 08:57 AM
His ego is out of control!!!!! /jwhit

Rausch
11-17-2009, 09:00 AM
Cause I likes having a job, Boss?

Exactly.

Someone would tell him to punt and he'd scream "FUCK YOU! GO WASH WITH FIRE!"

Raised On Riots
11-17-2009, 09:06 AM
Exactly.

Someone would tell him to punt and he'd scream "FUCK YOU! GO WASH WITH FIRE!"

LMAO

What's really bad, is that he framed that statement within the context of strategy and game management.

Uh, coach? That's YOUR job.

jAZ
11-17-2009, 09:09 AM
“When I was an assistant,” Haley said Monday, “I had all the answers.”

...

“It’s difficult,” Haley acknowledged. “Ultimately, you’re responsible for how they all turn out.”

...

“I’m learning, and those decisions until you’re actually the guy having to make those decisions on a game basis … you learn through experience,” he said.
Massive. Ego.

DeezNutz
11-17-2009, 09:15 AM
Haley would do himself a bit of a favor to tempor his talk about the overwhelming nature of the job.

At a certain point, it stops being humanizing and starts to raise questions about his aptitude for the position.

Right now, he's trying to do way too fucking much, and it shows. Would have been nice if a GM would have prevented this mess before it started...

Rausch
11-17-2009, 09:20 AM
Would have been nice if a GM would have prevented this mess before it started...

THIS...

Rooster
11-17-2009, 09:20 AM
Cause I likes having a job, Boss?

:LOL::LOL: I would say that's the reason right there.

milkman
11-17-2009, 09:26 AM
Haley would do himself a bit of a favor to tempor his talk about the overwhelming nature of the job.

At a certain point, it stops being humanizing and starts to raise questions about his aptitude for the position.

Right now, he's trying to do way too ****ing much, and it shows. Would have been nice if a GM would have prevented this mess before it started...

It would have been nice if Clark Hunt had stayed out of the way and let his hand picked GM and the HC make all the decisions on staff without interference, especailly at the OC and DC spots, so that we could have avoided this clusterfuck.

It also would have been nice if Hunt hadn't dragged his feet on getting the guy he wanted at GM, so that decisions could have been made more quickly and we hadn't been stuck with the leftovers.

DeezNutz
11-17-2009, 09:39 AM
It would have been nice if Clark Hunt had stayed out of the way and let his hand picked GM and the HC make all the decisions on staff without interference, especailly at the OC and DC spots, so that we could have avoided this cluster****.

It also would have been nice if Hunt hadn't dragged his feet on getting the guy he wanted at GM, so that decisions could have been made more quickly and we hadn't been stuck with the leftovers.

I agree, but it's easier to act on a local level, if that makes sense. In other words, Pioli can't do much about Clark being a fucking dumbass, but the Executive of the Century can prevent his n00b HC from compounding the problems.

milkman
11-17-2009, 09:47 AM
I agree, but it's easier to act on a local level, if that makes sense. In other words, Pioli can't do much about Clark being a ****ing dumbass, but the Executive of the Century can prevent his n00b HC from compounding the problems.

Yeah, I agree with that.

I don't buy into teh argument that we are better in the long run with the decision to reassign Gailey and get Haley's offense implemented now.

This team, regardless of coaching, in the best of circumstances isn't going to be ready to compete before '11.

Implementing a new system in OTAs and TC going into next season with a new OC who shares the same philosophy as Haley would have been far more productive than making the change just before the season this year.

Rausch
11-17-2009, 09:48 AM
It would have been nice if Clark Hunt had stayed out of the way and let his hand picked GM and the HC make all the decisions on staff without interference, especailly at the OC and DC spots, so that we could have avoided this cluster****.


I don't believe that at all.

Haley knew Penisgrasp and probably figured he was the best from what was left out there.

I can see Pioli/Clark encouraging Haley to keep Chan.

milkman
11-17-2009, 09:52 AM
I don't believe that at all.

Haley knew Penisgrasp and probably figured he was the best from what was left out there.

I can see Pioli/Clark encouraging Haley to keep Chan.

I wasn't saying that Hunt influeneced the decision to hire Pendergast.

I threw DC out there with OC because those are the top assistents.

In this case, Hunt meddled in the OC decision.

Rausch
11-17-2009, 09:55 AM
Yeah, I agree with that.

I don't buy into teh argument that we are better in the long run with the decision to reassign Gailey and get Haley's offense implemented now.

This team, regardless of coaching, in the best of circumstances isn't going to be ready to compete before '11.


It doesn't take 3 years to rebuild a team.

It just doesn't. If you know WTF you're doing and you're willing to adapt to the talent you already have it can move upward quick.

milkman
11-17-2009, 09:57 AM
It doesn't take 3 years to rebuild a team.

It just doesn't. If you know WTF you're doing and you're willing to adapt to the talent you already have it can move upward quick.

There's the rub.

They didn't adapt to the talent they had.

They shit all over it, and now we are stuck with a 3 year rebuild, in a best case scenario.

DeezNutz
11-17-2009, 09:57 AM
If you know WTF you're doing and you're willing to adapt to the talent you already have it can move upward quick.

Uh, oh. /Scott/

Rausch
11-17-2009, 10:00 AM
I wasn't saying that Hunt influeneced the decision to hire Pendergast.

I threw DC out there with OC because those are the top assistents.

In this case, Hunt meddled in the OC decision.

I don't know that but if you've got an OC who's accomplished more than you at every level of your NFL career?...

Yeah, might not hurt to keep that guy on staff.

Besides, Gailey was WR's coach, OC, and HC.

And the offense I've watched this year is still pass oriented, lots of shotgun, and dependent on trying to "trick" the defense.

It's every bit as much bull$#it and trickeration as the Pistol was, only with a better QB...

Raised On Riots
11-17-2009, 01:02 PM
Uh, oh. /Scott/


LALALALALALALALALA ICAN'T HEARRRRRRYOU LALALALALA /Scott/

milkman
11-17-2009, 01:07 PM
I don't know that but if you've got an OC who's accomplished more than you at every level of your NFL career?...

Yeah, might not hurt to keep that guy on staff.

Besides, Gailey was WR's coach, OC, and HC.

And the offense I've watched this year is still pass oriented, lots of shotgun, and dependent on trying to "trick" the defense.

It's every bit as much bull$#it and trickeration as the Pistol was, only with a better QB...

Regarless of experience, if the HC isn't comfortable with the coach he's being asked to work with, I would allow the HC to bring in someone he is comfortable with.

Rausch
11-17-2009, 01:14 PM
Regarless of experience, if the HC isn't comfortable with the coach he's being asked to work with, I would allow the HC to bring in someone he is comfortable with.

I don't think anyone forced him.

I just think Haley didn't think it out beforehand. Only once the games started did he have a huge concern.

Damn man, he worked with the guy all through TC and practices and etc. I honestly don't think Haley looked at it like "here's what I want to do/play like on gameday" until he saw what he didn't like from Chan. I don't think Haley got the big picture before then.

Frankie
11-17-2009, 01:19 PM
“When I was an assistant,” Haley said Monday, “I had all the answers.”

Those answers are proving more elusive to Haley in his first year as the Chiefs’ head coach.

I still think Haley can potentially be an excellent HC. He is going through an on-the-job training with us. I just hope Pioli will be patient with him and won't let another team enjoy the fruits of his KC training. I hate to see "The Rat vs. Oakland" part deux.

milkman
11-17-2009, 01:19 PM
I don't think anyone forced him.

I just think Haley didn't think it out beforehand. Only once the games started did he have a huge concern.

Damn man, he worked with the guy all through TC and practices and etc. I honestly don't think Haley looked at it like "here's what I want to do/play like on gameday" until he saw what he didn't like from Chan. I don't think Haley got the big picture before then.

From the rumors I read, it appeared that Hunt applied pressure to keep Gailey, and only after the first couple of preseason games did he relent and allow Haley to cut Gailey loose.

I think it was a bad decision due to timing.

Better off waiting till after the season.

jwhit
11-17-2009, 01:25 PM
It would have been nice if Clark Hunt had stayed out of the way and let his hand picked GM and the HC make all the decisions on staff without interference, especailly at the OC and DC spots, so that we could have avoided this cluster****.

It also would have been nice if Hunt hadn't dragged his feet on getting the guy he wanted at GM, so that decisions could have been made more quickly and we hadn't been stuck with the leftovers.

It would be nice if you offered some proof that Hunt made Haley keep Chan Gailey.

Frankie
11-17-2009, 01:33 PM
It would be nice if you offered some proof that Hunt made Haley keep Chan Gailey.

He did say rumor.

milkman
11-17-2009, 01:38 PM
It would be nice if you offered some proof that Hunt made Haley keep Chan Gailey.

I'm am just repeating what I read.

But here's the difference between posting on a message forum and writing a column for what is supposed to be a legitimate news source.

If I'm too lazy to look for the rumors, who gives a rat's ass, I'm just some dumbass posting on a message forum.

You on the other hand are in the media.

Credibility is, or should be, a part of your responsibilty.

DaWolf
11-17-2009, 01:44 PM
There's the rub.

They didn't adapt to the talent they had.

They shit all over it, and now we are stuck with a 3 year rebuild, in a best case scenario.

That's on Clark Hunt. Pioli clearly laid out when he was hired and if you read any of the stuff that talk about his philosophy that he has a standard and a vision for how to build a foundation for a championship team, and he was going to start from the ground up. He mentioned once I think that you can take over someone else's players and adapt to win quickly with those guys, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you have built the foundation for a championship organization. So he believes in installing a philosophy and a system and then finding guys who fit the right roles in that system. And this is what Hunt wanted, because he wants to model how things are done here with how the Steelers do things in terms of having a system and finding the right guys to play in that system and keep chugging along. If he wanted to adapt to the players we had he should have hired some other guy with some other philosophy.

Another thing that Pioli does is he evaluates guys that work for him based on their ability to raise questions or present differing viewpoints. He wants people who will challenge him. I read that this was one of the big things he evaluated scouts on, he would raise a point and see who would just sit there and agree and who would challenge him on it, and if a guy challenges him on a point and their challenge was sound, he'd want that guy to be around because he feels having those kind of guys around rather than just yes men is what creates an environment where you will make better judgments and less mistakes. So that's probably what Haley is getting at too, if his staff is composed of yes men, then it's not going to be good for him and lead to a lot more mistakes...

Rausch
11-17-2009, 01:47 PM
It would be nice if you offered some proof that Hunt made Haley keep Chan Gailey.

I don't buy it either.

If anything I'd guess Clark is even less (if possible) hands-on than Lamar was...

milkman
11-17-2009, 01:51 PM
That's on Clark Hunt. Pioli clearly laid out when he was hired and if you read any of the stuff that talk about his philosophy that he has a standard and a vision for how to build a foundation for a championship team, and he was going to start from the ground up. He mentioned once I think that you can take over someone else's players and adapt to win quickly with those guys, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you have built the foundation for a championship organization. So he believes in installing a philosophy and a system and then finding guys who fit the right roles in that system. And this is what Hunt wanted, because he wants to model how things are done here with how the Steelers do things in terms of having a system and finding the right guys to play in that system and keep chugging along. If he wanted to adapt to the players we had he should have hired some other guy with some other philosophy.

Another thing that Pioli does is he evaluates guys that work for him based on their ability to raise questions or present differing viewpoints. He wants people who will challenge him. I read that this was one of the big things he evaluated scouts on, he would raise a point and see who would just sit there and agree and who would challenge him on it, and if a guy challenges him on a point and their challenge was sound, he'd want that guy to be around because he feels having those kind of guys around rather than just yes men is what creates an environment where you will make better judgments and less mistakes. So that's probably what Haley is getting at too, if his staff is composed of yes men, then it's not going to be good for him and lead to a lot more mistakes...

I have no problem with Pioli implementing his own philosophy.

I do, however, have a problem with his plan.

You won't ever convince me that he couldn't have taken a slower path to implementing his philosophy while still improving this roster.

A plan that involved following the value in the drafts.

I believe the reason he bullrushed his plan is because he grossly misevaluated the talent on the roster.

Raised On Riots
11-17-2009, 02:07 PM
Yep.

DaWolf
11-17-2009, 03:58 PM
I have no problem with Pioli implementing his own philosophy.

I do, however, have a problem with his plan.

You won't ever convince me that he couldn't have taken a slower path to implementing his philosophy while still improving this roster.

A plan that involved following the value in the drafts.

I believe the reason he bullrushed his plan is because he grossly misevaluated the talent on the roster.

Time will tell if his "blueprint" is right for this organization, but right now, as Todd Haley likes to say, it is what it is, a 2-7 disaster...