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BigRedChief
11-17-2009, 07:42 AM
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=009C68C1-18FE-70B2-A8C04FBDDCCAADA9

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width=650><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2>A guide to who gets whacked
By: Jonathan Martin and Andy Barr
November 17, 2009 05:10 AM EST

</TD></TR><TR><TD class=story vAlign=top colSpan=2>Sarah Palin (http://topics.politico.com/index.cfm/topic/SarahPalin) may claim to scorn elites, but her new book (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/27671.html) will ring familiar to its Beltway readership.

Getting even with those who crossed her, praising her allies and generally putting a self-serving sheen on last year’s presidential campaign (http://topics.politico.com/index.cfm/topic/2008Campaign), “Going Rogue” is typical of the political memoir genre of recent vintage. It’s the sort of book that will send the political class scurrying to bookstores, eager to see how they fared in what’s known as “the Washington read (http://topics.politico.com/index.cfm/topic/books).”

With no index, though, Palin’s book has made that ritual more difficult.

So POLITICO, having obtained a copy of the book before its Tuesday release, has created a reader’s guide to “Going Rogue,” grouping the many characters into three categories, based upon that familiar question insiders are already whispering to those who managed to snag a copy of the book: How did I come out?

FRIENDS:

The construct Palin uses to describe the 2008 presidential campaign pits most of her advisers, the endearingly-named “B Team,” against the dreaded staffers running John McCain’s campaign back in suburban Washington, often simply derided as “headquarters.”

She has especially kind words for the campaign officials she bonded with during the campaign and, in some cases, remains in contact with.

This “B Team” includes such aides as Jason Recher, Chris Edwards, Tracey Schmitt, Jeannie Etchart, Bexie Nobles, Matthew Scully, Randy Scheunemann, Steve Biegun.

All receive generous treatment.

Biegun is even spared by a key omission in the book. Even though it has been reported that he was responsible for the embarrassing prank call Palin took (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1108/Sarkozy_calling.html) from a pair of French Canadian DJs posing as the President of France, Palin only identifies the aide as “a campaign adviser.”

“I felt bad for him because he was an absolutely stellar professional, so I knew these radio guys had to be really good to get around him,” she writes.

John and Cindy McCain (http://topics.politico.com/index.cfm/topic/johnmccain) receive fulsome praise throughout the book from Palin, him as a brave American hero and her as a mix of elegant lady and Every Mom.

But the Arizona senator is also portrayed as the final enforcer of the decision not to let Palin speak on Election Night (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0409/Why_Palin_didnt_get_a_concession_speech.html), something that plainly pained her.

She recounts telling McCain in the campaign’s hotel suite in Phoenix on Election Night that she wanted to use her remarks to thank him:

“’No these guys have it covered,’ he said, nodding in [campaign chief Steve] Schmidt’s direction. ‘They’ve got it handled.’”

Palin then writes: “I knew that was that. I thanked John again for everything and walked out of the room.”

McCain’s close friend Joe Lieberman, the Connecticut senator, also won accolades from Palin for soothing her during a stressful debate (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14234.html) prep session.

“God is going to see you through this,” Palin recalls Lieberman telling her, noting that she found it “so heartfelt, so genuine, so sincere.”

FOES:

Much of the portion of the book devoted to Palin’s time as vice presidential nominee and her last year in Alaska is filled with her grievances against a handful of McCain campaign aides and the media.

In particular, Palin trains her fire (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/24392.html) at Steve Schmidt, campaign advisers Mark and Nicolle Wallace and CBS news anchor Katie Couric (http://www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcalderone/1008/Palin_answers_what_she_wants_to_answer.html).

Schmidt, especially, receives the brunt of Palin’s blasts.

She describes him as variously quick-tempered, profane, overweight, threatening and incompetent. Plus, she notes, he was a smoker. (Though she does allow at one point that he can inspire loyalty and manage the press).

Complaining about being muzzled, she writes: “I questioned Schmidt about what headquarters would and would not allow me to say. Schmidt was a busy guy; he didn’t have a lot of time to elaborate, no doubt. He replied coolly, ‘Just stick to the script.’”

Taking issue with what she said was Schmidt’s attempt to get her a nutritionist, Palin observes: “As he lectured, I looked at his rotund physique and noted that he used nicotine to keep his own cognitive connections humming along.”

Schmidt also comes in for rough treatment in an anecdote Palin says took place between the campaign aide and Scheunemann after reports in POLITICO and CNN detailed the tensions between the veep candidate and McCain’s staff.

Citing Scheunemann, who remains a Palin adviser, she writes: “Schmidt issued a threat that was veiled enough for deniability but clear as day if you were on the receiving end: if there were are any more leaks critical of anybody in the handling of Sarah Palin, then a lot more negative stuff would be said about Sarah Palin.”

When Palin got prank-called by the two disc jockeys impersonating the president of France, she again paints Schmidt in a negative light.

“One of the first calls was Schmidt, and the force of his screaming blew my hair back. ‘How can anyone be so stupid?! Why would the president of France call a vice presidential candidate a few days out?

“Good question, I thought. Weren’t you the ones who set this up?

“As Schmidt’s rant blazed on, I pictured cell towers between D.C. and Florida bursting into flame. I held the phone slightly away from my head.”

Schmidt is also singled out on election night as the heavy who told Palin she wouldn’t be able to deliver a speech along with McCain’s own concession.

“Absolutely not,” Schmidt said. “I don’t even know why you wrote a speech. Nobody told you to.

“That set me back on my heels. I was surprised that he was surprised.”

Of Nicolle Wallace, a former top Bush administration official, Palin writes, “I had to trust her experience, as she had dealt with national politics more than I had. But something always struck me as peculiar about the way she recalled her days in the White House, when she was speaking on behalf of President George W. Bush. She didn’t have much to say that was positive about her former boss or the job in general.”
Palin also casts Nicolle Wallace as something of an insensitive snob, recalling that the campaign adviser informed her that her clothing was inappropriate for a vice-presidential nominee.

“She flipped through my wardrobe with raised eyebrows,” Palin writes of Wallace from a scene in the candidate’s bedroom after she returned to Alaska for her interview with ABC’s Charlie Gibson.
“No…no…no,” [Wallace] said as she slid each garment aside on its hangar.”

And so as to make unmistakable her disdain for Mark Wallace, Nicolle’s husband, the former Alaska governor includes a picture of the aide holding up his arms at her during a hotel room debate preparation session during a photograph montage otherwise devoted to upbeat images of Palin, her family and supporters.

“This picture says it all,” Palin writes in the caption. “A dark hotel room in Philadelphia and a frustrated Mark Wallace trying to tell me which of his non-answers I should give during debate prep.”

Palin never flatly accuses any of the top McCain advisers as being responsible for the leaks against her, but she comes close in recounting a scene from the hotel pool in Phoenix on the day after the election when the Wallaces stopped to say their good-byes.

“’I think you should know that for the next few days it’s going to get really nasty,’” Palin recalls Nicolle Wallace saying. “’Negative stories in the press. You should just be ready, that’s always how it goes. Hang on your hats!’

“That made no sense to Todd—why would anything ‘get nasty?’ And how could anyone know what would be coming in the media?

“But the Wallaces waved good-bye, and that was that.”

Often, names weren’t necessary to make the point—criticizing the generic “headquarters” sufficed, as in this lament from the last weeks of the campaign: “We asked whether we could expand the message, but by then it seemed, at least according to reports like the New York Times Magazine piece by Robert Draper, that headquarters might have already given up.”

Or from campaign’s end: “Since headquarters had micromanaged everything I did and said for weeks…”
Her home state of Alaska, its denizens and trusted aides like Meg Stapleton get much softer and kinder treatment, but Palin does take after some liberal opponents from back home—and a former colleague as well.

Though not mentioned by name, John Bitney is easily identifiable as the former aide whom Palin writes “turned out to be a BlackBerry games addict who couldn't seem to keep his lunch off his tie."
The policy director on Palin’s gubernatorial campaign, Bitney was her first legislative director in Juneau but is now a critic who is frequently interviewed by reporters.
Yet is CBS news anchor Katie Couric who is singled out for special treatment, emerging among media figures as Palin Enemy Number One.

“As for Katie Couric — where do I begin?” Palin writes, recounting what she concedes was an awful interview with the network anchor.

Though she accepts some culpability for the disastrous interview, Palin accuses Couric of having gone easier on Democratic vice presidential nominee Joe Biden, and twice claims that the newswoman’s own clothing stylist was actually part of the team hired by the GOP to outfit the vice-presidential candidate for the campaign. Palin even takes a swipe at Couric’s patriotism.

Palin writes of a National Press Club event where Couric addressed journalists about the news media’s behavior immediately following the Sept. 11 attacks.
According to Palin’s account, Couric told her media colleagues: “The whole culture of wearing flags on our lapel and saying ‘we’ when referring to the United States and, even the ‘shock and awe’ of the initial stages, it was just too jubilant and a little uncomfortable.”

Writes Palin of this assessment: “Unbelievable.”

Among journalists, Couric may have come in for the most personal criticism but Palin also devotes considerable space to bemoaning the press corps in general. When, for example, she details her return to Alaska after the campaign, Palin grumbles about unnamed “pundits and reporters” who criticized her for “not attending the celebrity-packed events we were invited to Outside.”

Disputing some of the analysts who said then-Sen. Barack Obama outperformed McCain at the first presidential debate, Palin writes: “Granted, 90 percent of the newspeople covering the debate were liberal.”
At other times, Palin flatly accuses reporters as stalking and harassing her family.

IN BETWEEN:

Palin seems to spare those individuals who, unlike Schmidt, haven’t criticized her since the campaign or who she doesn’t seem to suspect as leakers who disparaged her, like the Wallaces.

So even though senior campaign aides Mark Salter and Rick Davis played a pivotal role in the campaign—and at “headquarters”—they are largely absent from the book.

Of Salter, she does allow that her first impression was that he seemed “friendlier and quieter than Schmidt” and was a loyal and influential adviser to the senator.

As she does with Biegun and the prank call incident, Palin appears to offer Salter anonymity in recounting the scene on election night when she was told she would not be speaking.

Even though Salter has been identified in other reports as one of the heavies who delivered the news, Palin writes only that a “senior staffer” said: “’You know you won’t be giving a speech.’”

Even though he was a Schmidt friend, her traveling chief of staff, Andrew Smith, isn’t bloodied too badly either.

"It seemed odd that we were being put in the hands of a man who had never run a campaign before, but Andrew seemed like a nice guy, and it wasn't my call,” she said of Smith, a Wall Street veteran.

Another of Palin’s top traveling aides, Tucker Eskew, doesn’t receive the praise that her other “B Team” allies do yet he isn’t scorned like other senior officials.

While calling him a “Southern gentleman,” Palin writes that Eskew stuck to her “like gum on a shoe.”

After events, she recalls, “he’d be waiting for me on the campaign bus steps with an indulgent smile that said, ‘Come over here and let me tell you what you did wrong, bless your heart.’”

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

BigRedChief
11-17-2009, 07:45 AM
I watched her interview on Oprah last night. She seemed to be in full payback mode. Blaming others for her mistakes. Asking a vice-presidential candidate what books or magazines they read is not a "gotcha" question.

come off as spiteful and disenginous too many times. ex... She says that she doesn't want to talk negatively about Levi Johnson and then in the next breath proceeds to call him Rickey Hollywood and accuse him of launching a porn career.

Can someone please tell me that they would seriously want this woman as President? In charge of our nuclear arsenal?

stevieray
11-17-2009, 07:53 AM
here dougie goes again...you got issues with women??

I predict you and dirk make this twenty pages.

NewChief
11-17-2009, 07:59 AM
I watched her interview on Oprah last night. She seemed to be in full payback mode. Blaming others for her mistakes. Asking a vice-presidential candidate what books or magazines they read is not a "gotcha" question.

come off as spiteful and disenginous too many times. ex... She says that she doesn't want to talk negatively about Levi Johnson and then in the next breath proceeds to call him Rickey Hollywood and accuse him of launching a porn career.

Can someone please tell me that they would seriously want this woman as President? In charge of our nuclear arsenal?

She's playing an awesome little game of chess to try to position herself for a no-lose, divisive situation. If her accounts of things are read as true, then she looks great. If the "media" or "Washington insiders" dare to question her, then she'll dismiss their "fact finding" (which she's already done in some tweets) as a witch hunt and more proof that she's a rogue, thus generating even more rancor from her base which she hopes will translate into campaign energy.

She's a smart woman and a pretty good politician.

HonestChieffan
11-17-2009, 08:03 AM
Would you want Joe Biden's finger on the trigger? Nancy Pelosi?...tell me you really think Sarah is somehow differentially worse?

I'm not a Palin fan but come on, be at least balanced here.

ROYC75
11-17-2009, 08:18 AM
We got ...
McCain
Biden
Obam
Palin

We ,(Americans ) lost that night.

patteeu
11-17-2009, 08:51 AM
I watched her interview on Oprah last night. She seemed to be in full payback mode. Blaming others for her mistakes. Asking a vice-presidential candidate what books or magazines they read is not a "gotcha" question.

come off as spiteful and disenginous too many times. ex... She says that she doesn't want to talk negatively about Levi Johnson and then in the next breath proceeds to call him Rickey Hollywood and accuse him of launching a porn career.

Can someone please tell me that they would seriously want this woman as President? In charge of our nuclear arsenal?

In a heartbeat if the choice was between her and Obama. Against a generic opponent, she wouldn't be my first choice.

wild1
11-17-2009, 09:02 AM
Here we go... the long conniption fit begins.

BigRedChief
11-17-2009, 09:15 AM
here dougie goes again...you got issues with women??

I predict you and dirk make this twenty pages.What does being a women have to do with my post? Her gender is not an issue with me.

Velvet_Jones
11-17-2009, 09:27 AM
Hehehehe BigRedChief = fraiddycat libtard.

If we are going to play this game then I'll counter BRC's argument with "At least she wrote a book and didn't have to have William Ayers write it for her".

NewChief
11-17-2009, 10:00 AM
Hehehehe BigRedChief = fraiddycat libtard.

If we are going to play this game then I'll counter BRC's argument with "At least she wrote a book and didn't have to have William Ayers write it for her".

Actually, Palin's book is acknowledged to have been ghostwritten (NTTAWWT). Despite Bill Ayers making a joke about being the ghostwriter for Obama's book, it's never been proven or disproven, and I think that most probably regard it as a poor joke from a very weird guy.

So... umm... your statement is wrong on both accounts, though I imagine you already knew that.

Velvet_Jones
11-17-2009, 10:04 AM
Actually, Palin's book is acknowledged to have been ghostwritten (NTTAWWT). Despite Bill Ayers making a joke about being the ghostwriter for Obama's book, it's never been proven or disproven, and I think that most probably regard it as a poor joke from a very weird guy.

So... umm... your statement is wrong on both accounts, though I imagine you already knew that.

You are counting wrong. I made one point and another smartazz remark.

Chief Henry
11-17-2009, 10:05 AM
Actually, Palin's book is acknowledged to have been ghostwritten (NTTAWWT). Despite Bill Ayers making a joke about being the ghostwriter for Obama's book, it's never been proven or disproven, and I think that most probably regard it as a poor joke from a very weird guy.

So... umm... your statement is wrong on both accounts, though I imagine you already knew that.

Having Bill Ayres as a friend.....that speaks volumes about Obama !

NewChief
11-17-2009, 10:06 AM
You are counting wrong. I made one point and another smartazz remark.

Oh okay. ;)

wild1
11-17-2009, 10:07 AM
Actually, Palin's book is acknowledged to have been ghostwritten (NTTAWWT). Despite Bill Ayers making a joke about being the ghostwriter for Obama's book, it's never been proven or disproven, and I think that most probably regard it as a poor joke from a very weird guy.

So... umm... your statement is wrong on both accounts, though I imagine you already knew that.

All these political books are ghostwritten. Palin's was, I have no doubt Obama's were too.

wild1
11-17-2009, 10:07 AM
Having Bill Ayres as a friend.....that speaks volumes about Obama !

They aren't friends, he's just a guy who lives in his neighborhood and writes his books.

:rolleyes:

Velvet_Jones
11-17-2009, 10:10 AM
They aren't friends, he's just a guy who lives in his neighborhood and writes his books.

:rolleyes:

He wrote a book and Obama had another guy in the neighborhood that was also not his friend steal his notes.

NewChief
11-17-2009, 10:11 AM
All these political books are ghostwritten. Palin's was, I have no doubt Obama's were too.

It's definitely possible. I do wonder who would have ghostwritten Dreams, though? Obama was a political nobody law student when it was written. I'm not sure why someone would want to ghostwrite for a law student?

HonestChieffan
11-17-2009, 10:16 AM
He wrote a book and Obama had another guy in the neighborhood that was also not his friend steal his notes.

But it was done Chicago style. The guy who stole the notes is now an assistant to the governor and the guy who did the notes is a special advisor to a czar.

Velvet_Jones
11-17-2009, 10:18 AM
But it was done Chicago style. The guy who stole the notes is now an assistant to the governor and the guy who did the notes is a special advisor to a czar.

I think I heard that - dang can't remember his title - "czar of stealin' shit and gettin' stuff done" - or something like that.

wild1
11-17-2009, 10:20 AM
It's definitely possible. I do wonder who would have ghostwritten Dreams, though? Obama was a political nobody law student when it was written. I'm not sure why someone would want to ghostwrite for a law student?

If he was such a nobody college student, how did he get a book published to begin with?

Does he pen operas and shoot 9 holes in one in a single round of golf as well?

BigRedChief
11-17-2009, 10:27 AM
In a heartbeat if the choice was between her and Obama. Against a generic opponent, she wouldn't be my first choice.You'd rather have Sarah Palin as President now? The commander-in-chief?

NewChief
11-17-2009, 10:52 AM
If he was such a nobody college student, how did he get a book published to begin with?

Does he pen operas and shoot 9 holes in one in a single round of golf as well?

Are you saying that writing a book is as hard as shooting 9 hole in ones or penning an opera? It's not. On top of that, the book wasn't successful at all until 2004, after he made his speech at the DNC convention. It was basically out of print and had only been released in hardback then in paperback. He was offered the contract, from what I can glean, due to becoming the first black president of the Harvard Law Review.

Reaper16
11-17-2009, 10:59 AM
If we are going to play this game then I'll counter BRC's argument with "At least she wrote a book and didn't have to have William Ayers write it for her".

All these political books are ghostwritten. Palin's was, I have no doubt Obama's were too.
Of all the stupid shit said here this is up there with the worst of it. Obama's books weren't ghostwritten. You can tell if you read them.

If he was such a nobody college student, how did he get a book published to begin with?

Does he pen operas and shoot 9 holes in one in a single round of golf as well?

Do you have any idea how book publishing works?

ROYC75
11-17-2009, 11:04 AM
You'd rather have Sarah Palin as President now? The commander-in-chief?

I for one couldn't see no worse than what we have now, most likely better off and not in as much debt.

Rather ? Vote me in for this alone, less deficit and debt.

alpha_omega
11-17-2009, 11:05 AM
I watched her interview on Oprah last night.

First of all...i just wanted to verify....you were watching Oprah?

She seemed to be in full payback mode. Blaming others for her mistakes.

Secondly, could you cite some examples?

|Zach|
11-17-2009, 11:06 AM
Would love to see Palin get more and more popular.

NewChief
11-17-2009, 11:08 AM
Do you have any idea how book publish works?

Evidently to get published, you need to be able to play some damned good golf and compose an opera. It's amazing we have as many books out there as we do.

|Zach|
11-17-2009, 11:08 AM
I for one couldn't see no worse than what we have now, most likely better off and not in as much debt.

Rather ? Vote me in for this alone, less deficit and debt.

http://www.luckythreadz.com/large/images/grammar_crackers_large.gif

ROYC75
11-17-2009, 11:12 AM
Would love to see Palin get more and more popular.

Probably will, the left just can't leave her alone.

ROYC75
11-17-2009, 11:13 AM
http://www.luckythreadz.com/large/images/grammar_crackers_large.gif

See you are on patrol again, makes ya feel good, doesn't it. Reach up there and give yourself a pat on the back.

|Zach|
11-17-2009, 11:17 AM
See you are on patrol again, makes ya feel good, doesn't it. Reach up there and give yourself a pat on the back.

Seeing an adult write sentences like that in this country doesn't make anyone feel good. Typos are one thing...but holy shit.

Radar Chief
11-17-2009, 11:18 AM
Probably will, the left just can't leave her alone.

Indeed, the continuing attempts at character assassination are very telling.

|Zach|
11-17-2009, 11:19 AM
Probably will, the left just can't leave her alone.

I am being serious. I hope she keeps rising. She energizes the fringe and scares away moderates.

She would be the political equivalent of having Larry Johnson at running back. Lots of hype and drama. But no success.

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 11:20 AM
of course shed be mad at couric and start labeling her anti-american. it was couric who completely exposed her to the general public as a fraud. id be pissed too

ROYC75
11-17-2009, 11:20 AM
Seeing an adult write sentences like that in this country doesn't make anyone feel good. Typos are one thing...but holy shit.


How do you make it in this world being so perfect, seriously, How ?

|Zach|
11-17-2009, 11:21 AM
Indeed, the continuing attempts at character assassination are very telling.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn225/dansan36/ninja.jpg

|Zach|
11-17-2009, 11:22 AM
How do you make it in this world being so perfect, seriously, How ?

I am not anywhere near perfect. Of course there is a pretty big comfort zone between being perfect and writing sentences in real English.

ROYC75
11-17-2009, 11:27 AM
of course shed be mad at couric and start labeling her anti-american. it was couric who completely exposed her to the general public as a fraud. id be pissed too



Seriously, what news reporter or journalist ever ask the questions, what books do you read to every presidential or vice presidential hopeful?

Her basic answer, all of them, whatever is available at the time when one chooses to read.

It was clear the liberal left press despised her from the beginning, anything they could do to attack, they did just that. Was she treated the same fashion a man was ? No. Did Geraldine Ferraro face this type of criticizing during her bid as VPOTUS. Nope.

But yet today, they still can't leave her alone or stop talking about her. Even Letterman, whom has made an ass of himself lately continues to ridicule her. Why doesn't ridicule himself ?

|Zach|
11-17-2009, 11:29 AM
Why doesn't ridicule himself ?

No idea.

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 11:30 AM
Seriously, what news reporter or journalist ever ask the questions, what books do you read to every presidential or vice presidential hopeful?

Her basic answer, all of them, whatever is available at the time when one chooses to read.

It was clear the liberal left press despised her from the beginning, anything they could do to attack, they did just that. Was she treated the same fashion a man was ? No. Did Geraldine Ferraro face this type of criticizing during her bid as VPOTUS. Nope.

But yet today, they still can't leave her alone or stop talking about her. Even Letterman, whom has made an ass of himself lately continues to ridicule her. Why doesn't ridicule himself ?

palin has a book out. that is why they are talking about her. hence this thread.

Reaper16
11-17-2009, 11:31 AM
Seriously, what news reporter or journalist ever ask the questions, what books do you read to every presidential or vice presidential hopeful?

Her basic answer, all of them, whatever is available at the time when one chooses to read.

It was clear the liberal left press despised her from the beginning, anything they could do to attack, they did just that. Was she treated the same fashion a man was ? No. Did Geraldine Ferraro face this type of criticizing during her bid as VPOTUS. Nope.

But yet today, they still can't leave her alone or stop talking about her. Even Letterman, whom has made an ass of himself lately continues to ridicule her. Why doesn't ridicule himself ?
Couric's question was more than fair. What's wrong with asking about the magazines that Palin read to shape her worldview? That first interview was part of Sarah's introduction to the American people, and a question about Sarah's political beliefs was very relevant.

As for people not leaving her alone... if she wanted to be left alone then she wouldn't be putting out a new tell-all book and maneuvering herself for 2012.

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 11:31 AM
if you cant name one book that you're reading off the top of your head when someone asks you, then you're simply not reading enough.

ROYC75
11-17-2009, 11:35 AM
I am not anywhere near perfect. Of course generally there is a pretty big comfort zone between being perfect and writing sentences in real English.

One, I never claimed to be a writer, a journalist, or anyone who can write perfectly to keep the perfect people as yourself at bay ( being appalled) . Most of us get on here to pass time away during work and many times are tied up trying to do both.Do I make errors, yes, often, reason I choose to not show criticism towards anybody else as much as I could, none of us are perfect. Except you, one who played backup on a state championship football team that still claims to know all their is to know about HS football.

Keep living your dream Zack. Just keep on keeping on.

Radar Chief
11-17-2009, 11:36 AM
palin has a book out. that is why they are talking about her. hence this thread.

Yea, cause, like this is the first we've heard of her since the election.

BIG_DADDY
11-17-2009, 11:36 AM
Seeing an adult write sentences like that in this country doesn't make anyone feel good. Typos are one thing...but holy shit.

Anal douching and proper sentence structure with a unique condescending flare make Mary a CP icon. Awesome.

wild1
11-17-2009, 11:36 AM
if you cant name one book that you're reading off the top of your head when someone asks you, then you're simply not reading enough.

I don't think for a moment that the President or any of these top level people are reading a lot of books. People in those positions don't have the time. I wouldn't begrudge them for not reading.

ROYC75
11-17-2009, 11:38 AM
No idea.

Why doesn't he, he's open game just as she is .

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 11:38 AM
Yea, cause, like this is the first we've heard of her since the election.

ive hardly heard anything about her other than a few late night jokes and speculation of her candidacy in '12. other than that, shes pretty irrelevant.

|Zach|
11-17-2009, 11:38 AM
Anal douching and proper sentence structure with a unique condescending flare make Mary a CP icon. Awesome.

Not all of us can live life sitting around getting pissed about vaccines. You have it good. Don't rub our noses in it.

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 11:40 AM
I don't think for a moment that the President or any of these top level people are reading a lot of books. People in those positions don't have the time. I wouldn't begrudge them for not reading.

she doesnt have the time to read a book but she has the time to write one?

|Zach|
11-17-2009, 11:40 AM
One, I never claimed to be a writer, a journalist, or anyone who can write perfectly to keep the perfect people as yourself at bay ( being appalled) . Most of us get on here to pass time away during work and many times are tied up trying to do both.Do I make errors, yes, often, reason I choose to not show criticism towards anybody else as much as I could, none of us are perfect. Except you, one who played backup on a state championship football team that still claims to know all their is to know about HS football.

Keep living your dream Zack. Just keep on keeping on.

Yes, because only people striving to be a writer or journalist should be smart enough not to use double negatives all the time.

BigRedChief
11-17-2009, 11:41 AM
First of all...i just wanted to verify....you were watching Oprah?



Secondly, could you cite some examples?To see the Palin interview. Yes, I have now watched one whole episode of Oprah. Does that mean I have to turn in my man card?

I believe the opening post points out several examples of petty, getting even, payback quotes in her book.

Reaper16
11-17-2009, 11:42 AM
I don't think for a moment that the President or any of these top level people are reading a lot of books. People in those positions don't have the time. I wouldn't begrudge them for not reading.
Why all the talk about Sarah reading books? Couric asked her specifically what "newspapers or magazines" did Palin read. Couric didn't ask about books.

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 11:44 AM
Why all the talk about Sarah reading books? Couric asked her specifically what "newspapers or magazines" did Palin read. Couric didn't ask about books.

roy brought up the book thing, i don't remember what the question was exactly other than what were you reading.

ROYC75
11-17-2009, 11:48 AM
she doesnt have the time to read a book but she has the time to write one?

Does the mirror crack each time you look into it or does it laugh back at you ? Makes me wonder.

Radar Chief
11-17-2009, 11:49 AM
ive hardly heard anything about her other than a few late night jokes and speculation of her candidacy in '12. other than that, shes pretty irrelevant.

You’re not paying attention then.
I’ve yet to see a week go by that Palin’s name isn’t brought up and, her or her family, attacked by some MSM source.
The left seems obsessed with her.

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 11:50 AM
Does the mirror crack each time you look into it or does it laugh back at you ? Makes me wonder.

i'm sorry?

ROYC75
11-17-2009, 11:50 AM
roy brought up the book thing, i don't remember what the question was exactly other than what were you reading.

Wonder how much reading books and magazines our elected officials get to read during their time in office, maybe one should ask this question ? Then ask why, don't you have some important bill you need to read instead of just passing it with a rubber stamp ?

wild1
11-17-2009, 11:51 AM
Why all the talk about Sarah reading books? Couric asked her specifically what "newspapers or magazines" did Palin read. Couric didn't ask about books.

No, but the post I quoted did.

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 11:52 AM
You’re not paying attention then.
I’ve yet to see a week go by that Palin’s name isn’t brought up and, her or her family, attacked by some MSM source.
The left seems obsessed with her.

i watch daily show all the time which is admittedly 'left', yet they hardly mention her if at all.

from what else i read, left or right, she seemed to be a flash in the pan type of deal until now with her obvious attempt to profit off her 15 minutes of fame.

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 11:54 AM
Wonder how much reading books and magazines our elected officials get to read during their time in office, maybe one should ask this question ? Then ask why, don't you have some important bill you need to read instead of just passing it with a rubber stamp ?

what? seriously, im having an extremely hard time understanding you. is this like a kcnut, demonpenz thing?

Radar Chief
11-17-2009, 11:58 AM
i watch daily show all the time which is admittedly 'left', yet they hardly mention her if at all.

from what else i read, left or right, she seemed to be a flash in the pan type of deal until now with her obvious attempt to profit off her 15 minutes of fame.

:eek: The Daily Show is Main Stream Media?

Reaper16
11-17-2009, 12:00 PM
No, but the post I quoted did.
I didn't mean to infer that you were the only one talking about Palin not reading books.

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 12:00 PM
:eek: The Daily Show is Main Stream Media?

it is media and you said the left so I guess it qualifies on both those counts. i obtain most of my news online through MSM sources and other than what she is doing or not doing politically is the only time she makes a blip on the radar. until now.

Radar Chief
11-17-2009, 12:02 PM
it is media and you said the left so I guess it qualifies on both those counts. i obtain most of my news online through MSM sources and other than what she is doing or not doing politically is the only time she makes a blip on the radar. until now.

No, it’s not media, it’s a comedy show. John Stewart himself has said repeatedly they’re not to be taken seriously.

BigRedChief
11-17-2009, 12:03 PM
i watch daily show all the time which is admittedly 'left', yet they hardly mention her if at all.

from what else i read, left or right, she seemed to be a flash in the pan type of deal until now with her obvious attempt to profit off her 15 minutes of fame.
That flash in the pan would make a good president according to Patteau and Royce75.

dirk digler
11-17-2009, 12:03 PM
here dougie goes again...you got issues with women??

I predict you and dirk make this twenty pages.

You can't stop thinking about me ;)

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 12:04 PM
No, it’s not media, it’s a comedy show. John Stewart himself has said repeatedly they’re not to be taken seriously.

it has to be taken seriously to be considered media?

mlyonsd
11-17-2009, 12:04 PM
That flash in the pan would make a good president according to Patteau and Royce75.

She could easily equal what we've gotten so far.

ROYC75
11-17-2009, 12:06 PM
what? seriously, im having an extremely hard time understanding you. is this like a kcnut, demonpenz thing?

I'm always on the go, have little time to read, no books. I might pick up a magazine while at the doctors office, but if we have elected officials sitting around needing to read books and mags for something to do, they should have no problem reading a 2000+ page bill to pass in the house before a damn vote.

It would be my understanding to read to keep up on current affairs pertaining to your work, etc. but to read for enjoyment when they are in office and can't read a bill before voting is pure laziness.

ROYC75
11-17-2009, 12:07 PM
That flash in the pan would make a good president according to Patteau and Royce75.

Women know how to spend money, Obo does too, something makes me think she would spend less of it, since we pay for it.


Wanna try again.

Radar Chief
11-17-2009, 12:07 PM
it has to be taken seriously to be considered media?

Uh yea, one would generally hope so.

BigRedChief
11-17-2009, 12:09 PM
She could easily equal what we've gotten so far.Sarah Palin as president....just let that sink in.....no as some abstract thought.....theres a good reason as to why polls say 80% of the American public don't think she is qualified.

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 12:10 PM
Uh yea, one would generally hope so.

media is just a way to reach and influence people. whether its through tv, radio, mags, etc. whether you agree with its message or not doesnt mean its not media. thats like grade school stuff man

mlyonsd
11-17-2009, 12:12 PM
Sarah Palin as president....just let that sink in.....no as some abstract thought.....theres a good reason as to why polls say 80% of the American public don't think she is qualified.

I have. And stand by my post. Just because you're biased doesn't mean she couldn't do what Captain Ego has to this point.

BigRedChief
11-17-2009, 12:13 PM
I have. And stand by my post. Just because you're biased doesn't mean she couldn't do what Captain Ego has to this point.:doh!: I weep for America.




:Poke:

Radar Chief
11-17-2009, 12:14 PM
media is just a way to reach and influence people. whether its through tv, radio, mags, etc. whether you agree with its message or not doesnt mean its not media. thats like grade school stuff man

Your mistake is in the first sentence. It’s not the medias job to influence anyone. It’s their job to report events factually.
But you’re at least right about one thing, this is grade school stuff “man”.

ROYC75
11-17-2009, 12:15 PM
Sarah Palin as president....just let that sink in.....no as some abstract thought.....theres a good reason as to why polls say 80% of the American public don't think she is qualified.

Just as the Liberal press went on a slobbering love fest for Obama, we see what that got him, elected POTUS.

The Liberal press has a lot of pull, TV's, newspapers, magazine articles, Hollywood, etc.

Catch my drift. If it works one way positive, it can work the other way negative.

fan4ever
11-17-2009, 12:17 PM
No, it’s not media, it’s a comedy show. John Stewart himself has said repeatedly they’re not to be taken seriously.

Yet he wins some kind of journalism award recently? ROFL

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 12:17 PM
I'm always on the go, have little time to read, no books. I might pick up a magazine while at the doctors office, but if we have elected officials sitting around needing to read books and mags for something to do, they should have no problem reading a 2000+ page bill to pass in the house before a damn vote.

It would be my understanding to read to keep up on current affairs pertaining to your work, etc. but to read for enjoyment when they are in office and can't read a bill before voting is pure laziness.

so youre saying because someone DOESNT read books they are more inclined to read 2000 page bills? simply because they have more TIME than other presidents?

if you look back at the history of presidents you'll see that the majority of them are very literate and yet they were still able to function in their jobs. crazy.

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 12:18 PM
Your mistake is in the first sentence. It’s not the medias job to influence anyone. It’s their job to report events factually.
But you’re at least right about one thing, this is grade school stuff “man”.

should i post the definition of media for you? would you like websters or online dicitionary?

Radar Chief
11-17-2009, 12:19 PM
Yet he wins some kind of journalism award recently? ROFL

Considering one person here tried to reference his show as Main Stream Media that actually doesn’t surprise me.

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 12:20 PM
Considering one person here tried to reference his show as Main Stream Media that actually doesn’t surprise me.

who did that?

mlyonsd
11-17-2009, 12:22 PM
:doh!: I weep for America.




:Poke:

Seriously....tell me what big initiative he's accomplished that makes you think he's actually done something?

His big campaign initiatives......

Health Care......yea right.
Transparency.....what a joke.
Afghanistan......total lack of leadership, deer in headlights.
Iran......:popcorn:
Global Warming....yesterday the world laughed in his face.
Economy.......nothing points to a long term recovery. Not a F'ing thing.
Deficit?.....well that wasn't an outright campaign promise I can remember but the deficit is sure alive and well with no reduction in sight.

Yea, I'm sure Palin could do at least as much as the one.

Radar Chief
11-17-2009, 12:31 PM
who did that?

You did.
When I brought up the Main Stream Media you reference the Daily Show.

I’ve yet to see a week go by that Palin’s name isn’t brought up and, her or her family, attacked by some MSM source.

i watch daily show all the time which is admittedly 'left', yet they hardly mention her if at all.

:eek: The Daily Show is Main Stream Media?

it is media and you said the left so I guess it qualifies on both those counts.

:shrug:

BIG_DADDY
11-17-2009, 12:41 PM
Seriously....tell me what big initiative he's accomplished that makes you think he's actually done something?

His big campaign initiatives......

Health Care......yea right.
Transparency.....what a joke.
Afghanistan......total lack of leadership, deer in headlights.
Iran......:popcorn:
Global Warming....yesterday the world laughed in his face.
Economy.......nothing points to a long term recovery. Not a F'ing thing.
Deficit?.....well that wasn't an outright campaign promise I can remember but the deficit is sure alive and well with no reduction in sight.

Yea, I'm sure Palin could do at least as much as the one.

Tip of the iceberg. The biggest money grab in the history of the world happening on his watch and he wants to give the FR even more power. His backers get mad and say he is ****ing up. He is not ****ing up, he knows exactly what he is doing.

patteeu
11-17-2009, 12:53 PM
You'd rather have Sarah Palin as President now? The commander-in-chief?

You betcha. Hell, I'd rather have Hillary or Bill. Obama is the worst President of our lifetime.

patteeu
11-17-2009, 12:54 PM
Of all the stupid shit said here this is up there with the worst of it. Obama's books weren't ghostwritten. You can tell if you read them.

No you can't.

wild1
11-17-2009, 12:58 PM
You betcha. Hell, I'd rather have Hillary or Bill. Obama is the worst President of our lifetime.

If you said I could replace Obama with Clinton, but I'd have to take two more terms of Clinton, that would be a fair trade. Clinton at least had a coherent foreign policy some of the time, was pragmatic domestically in ways this administration seems incapable, and had a few centrist positions.

Referencing the original question, I'd take Palin as well over what we have now.

BIG_DADDY
11-17-2009, 12:59 PM
You betcha. Hell, I'd rather have Hillary or Bill. Obama is the worst President of our lifetime.

The great enabler, our commader and thief, Barack Hussein Obama.

big nasty kcnut
11-17-2009, 01:01 PM
I'm getting her book today.

patteeu
11-17-2009, 01:03 PM
That flash in the pan would make a good president according to Patteau and Royce75.

Logic lesson: Better than abysmal doesn't necessarily mean good.

She wouldn't be as good as Dick Cheney. She'd be better than John Kerry, John McCain or Joe Biden though.

patteeu
11-17-2009, 01:05 PM
Seriously....tell me what big initiative he's accomplished that makes you think he's actually done something?

His big campaign initiatives......

Health Care......yea right.
Transparency.....what a joke.
Afghanistan......total lack of leadership, deer in headlights.
Iran......:popcorn:
Global Warming....yesterday the world laughed in his face.
Economy.......nothing points to a long term recovery. Not a F'ing thing.
Deficit?.....well that wasn't an outright campaign promise I can remember but the deficit is sure alive and well with no reduction in sight.

Yea, I'm sure Palin could do at least as much as the one.

He's the first POTUS in a long time to get Castro to say he's doing good things.

Radar Chief
11-17-2009, 01:05 PM
You betcha.

:LOL: Done’cha know. :thumb:

Dallas Chief
11-17-2009, 01:13 PM
Asking a vice-presidential candidate what books or magazines they read is not a "gotcha" question.


Honest question here. Was that question asked of any other candidate, either President or VP? How about any other seemingly pointless question?

ROYC75
11-17-2009, 01:15 PM
Seriously....tell me what big initiative he's accomplished that makes you think he's actually done something?

His big campaign initiatives......

Health Care......yea right.
Transparency.....what a joke.
Afghanistan......total lack of leadership, deer in headlights.
Iran......:popcorn:
Global Warming....yesterday the world laughed in his face.
Economy.......nothing points to a long term recovery. Not a F'ing thing.
Deficit?.....well that wasn't an outright campaign promise I can remember but the deficit is sure alive and well with no reduction in sight.

Yea, I'm sure Palin could do at least as much as the one.

And all Obots says , Hail Obo the Great, Leader of CHANGE & HOPE!

Reaper16
11-17-2009, 01:26 PM
No you can't.
Yes, you can. There is no indication that "Dreams" was ghostwritten. It certainly doesn't read like a ghostwritten memoir. "Audacity" has a voice that is consistent with "Dreams." The policies advocated in "Audacity" do seem to draw from the experiences in "Dreams."

I don't see why anyone would even think that the books were ghostwritten in the first place.

patteeu
11-17-2009, 01:42 PM
Yes, you can. There is no indication that "Dreams" was ghostwritten. It certainly doesn't read like a ghostwritten memoir. "Audacity" has a voice that is consistent with "Dreams." The policies advocated in "Audacity" do seem to draw from the experiences in "Dreams."

I don't see why anyone would even think that the books were ghostwritten in the first place.

Yes, you can. There is no indication that "Dreams" was ghostwritten. It certainly doesn't read like a ghostwritten memoir. "Audacity" has a voice that is consistent with "Dreams." The policies advocated in "Audacity" do seem to draw from the experiences in "Dreams."

I don't see why anyone would even think that the books were ghostwritten in the first place.

If your words had been typed in a post using my account, no one would be able to tell that they weren't mine. I rest my case.

Reaper16
11-17-2009, 02:00 PM
If your words had been typed in a post using my account, no one would be able to tell that they weren't mine. I rest my case.
That's a terrible case for the sample size alone.

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 02:02 PM
The left seems obsessed with her.

i watch daily show all the time which is admittedly 'left', yet they hardly mention her if at all.



I see you conveniently left out an entire sentence that would make sense as to why I would say that. Why would you do that?

Radar Chief
11-17-2009, 02:22 PM
I see you conveniently left out an entire sentence that would make sense as to why I would say that. Why would you do that?

:spock: Well, since we’re talking “convenient omission” you’re “conveniently” ignoring the rest of the conversation in which you go on to defend your Daily Show = MSM statement. Why would you do that? :shrug:

:eek: The Daily Show is Main Stream Media?

it is media and you said the left so I guess it qualifies on both those counts.

dirk digler
11-17-2009, 02:47 PM
What is going to be most interesting IMHO is what McCain has to say about all of this knowing how much a straight shooter he is most of the time.
It does appear Palin lied alot in her book and McCain has come out and talked about one issue and said it wasn't true. Also apparently he is calling his former campaign staff and apologizing over Palin.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/67969-mccain-palin-legal-bill-was-for-troopergate
McCain: Palin legal bill was for “troopergate”


By Alexander Bolton - 11/16/09 06:18 PM ET

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who spoke to The Hill Monday evening, denied Sarah Palin’s allegation that his campaign stuck her with a $50,000 legal bill to pay for the cost of vetting her as a potential vice presidential candidate.

<!-- ROSMC --> <script type="text/javascript"><!--//<![CDATA[ var m3_u = (location.protocol=='https:'?'https://ad.thehill.com/www/delivery/ajs.php':'http://ad.thehill.com/www/delivery/ajs.php'); var m3_r = Math.floor(Math.random()*99999999999); if (!document.MAX_used) document.MAX_used = ','; document.write ("<scr"+"ipt type='text/javascript' src='"+m3_u); document.write ("?zoneid=100&block=1"); document.write ('&cb=' + m3_r); if (document.MAX_used != ',') document.write ("&exclude=" + document.MAX_used); document.write ("&loc=" + escape(window.location)); if (document.referrer) document.write ("&referer=" + escape(document.referrer)); if (document.context) document.write ("&context=" + escape(document.context)); if (document.mmm_fo) document.write ("&mmm_fo=1"); document.write ("'><\/scr"+"ipt>"); //]]>--></script><script type="text/javascript" src="http://ad.thehill.com/www/delivery/ajs.php?zoneid=100&block=1&cb=97883194613&loc=http%3A//thehill.com/homenews/senate/67969-mccain-palin-legal-bill-was-for-troopergate&referer=http%3A//www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/"></script><noscript>http://ad.thehill.com/www/delivery/avw.php?zoneid=100&n=a9aaece3 (http://ad.thehill.com/www/delivery/ck.php?n=a9aaece3&cb=INSERT_RANDOM_NUMBER_HERE)</noscript> McCain said the bill was for legal work related to allegations that Palin made improper use of her influence as Alaska’s governor to press for the dismissal of a state trooper named Mike Wooten. Wooten was embroiled in a custody dispute with Palin’s younger sister, Molly McCann.
“That was addressed by Trevor Potter,” said McCain, “That was over the troopergate.”

In a statement to the Associated Press, Potter, McCain's general counsel, denied that McCain’s campaign billed Palin for vetting her.

“To my knowledge, the campaign never billed Gov. Palin for any legal expenses related to her vetting and I am not aware of her ever asking the campaign to pay legal expenses that her own lawyers incurred for the vetting process,” he said.

Palin made the charge in her new book, "Going Rogue: An American Life," which listed a litany of complaints Palin had with McCain's campaign, such as its decision to limit her access to reporters. Palin also questioned how the campaign handled the announcement of her daughter's out-of-wedlock pregnancy.

McCain told The Hill that he nevertheless enjoyed Palin's book.

"I hope she sells lots of them," he said.

Palin received a $5 million advance from HarperCollins, according to the New York Times.

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 02:58 PM
:spock: Well, since we’re talking “convenient omission” you’re “conveniently” ignoring the rest of the conversation in which you go on to defend your Daily Show = MSM statement. Why would you do that? :shrug:

reading comprehension is not your friend is it? i said daily show was media that has a left viewpoint not that daily show is main stream media.

Radar Chief
11-17-2009, 03:00 PM
reading comprehension is not your friend is it? i said daily show was media that has a left viewpoint not that daily show is main stream media.

Really, even after I pointed out the mistake to you and you continued to defend it?

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 03:03 PM
Really, even after I pointed out the mistake to you and you continued to defend it?

what are you asking here?

Radar Chief
11-17-2009, 03:13 PM
what are you asking here?

I guess what I’m asking is, are you fucking serious?
When I mentioned the Main Stream Media you brought up the Daily Show as a point of reference. After I pointed this out to you, you then go on to defend the response.
Now you want to act like that’s not what you meant.
You’re coming off as pretty freak’n ridiculous here.

patteeu
11-17-2009, 03:26 PM
That's a terrible case for the sample size alone.

The sample size of authenticated Obama writing is pretty small too.

Regardless of what you think of my case, you haven't even begun to make yours. It was just an unsupported and incredible assertion that people should be able to magically tell that Obama wrote his book simply by reading them. Based on what?

patteeu
11-17-2009, 03:31 PM
What is going to be most interesting IMHO is what McCain has to say about all of this knowing how much a straight shooter he is most of the time.
It does appear Palin lied alot in her book and McCain has come out and talked about one issue and said it wasn't true. Also apparently he is calling his former campaign staff and apologizing over Palin.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/67969-mccain-palin-legal-bill-was-for-troopergate
McCain: Palin legal bill was for “troopergate”


By Alexander Bolton - 11/16/09 06:18 PM ET

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who spoke to The Hill Monday evening, denied Sarah Palin’s allegation that his campaign stuck her with a $50,000 legal bill to pay for the cost of vetting her as a potential vice presidential candidate.

<!-- ROSMC --> <script type="text/javascript"><!--//<![CDATA[ var m3_u = (location.protocol=='https:'?'https://ad.thehill.com/www/delivery/ajs.php':'http://ad.thehill.com/www/delivery/ajs.php'); var m3_r = Math.floor(Math.random()*99999999999); if (!document.MAX_used) document.MAX_used = ','; document.write ("<scr"+"ipt type='text/javascript' src='"+m3_u); document.write ("?zoneid=100&block=1"); document.write ('&cb=' + m3_r); if (document.MAX_used != ',') document.write ("&exclude=" + document.MAX_used); document.write ("&loc=" + escape(window.location)); if (document.referrer) document.write ("&referer=" + escape(document.referrer)); if (document.context) document.write ("&context=" + escape(document.context)); if (document.mmm_fo) document.write ("&mmm_fo=1"); document.write ("'><\/scr"+"ipt>"); //]]>--></script><script type="text/javascript" src="http://ad.thehill.com/www/delivery/ajs.php?zoneid=100&block=1&cb=97883194613&loc=http%3A//thehill.com/homenews/senate/67969-mccain-palin-legal-bill-was-for-troopergate&referer=http%3A//www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/"></script><noscript>http://ad.thehill.com/www/delivery/avw.php?zoneid=100&n=a9aaece3 (http://ad.thehill.com/www/delivery/ck.php?n=a9aaece3&cb=INSERT_RANDOM_NUMBER_HERE)</noscript> McCain said the bill was for legal work related to allegations that Palin made improper use of her influence as Alaska’s governor to press for the dismissal of a state trooper named Mike Wooten. Wooten was embroiled in a custody dispute with Palin’s younger sister, Molly McCann.
“That was addressed by Trevor Potter,” said McCain, “That was over the troopergate.”

In a statement to the Associated Press, Potter, McCain's general counsel, denied that McCain’s campaign billed Palin for vetting her.

“To my knowledge, the campaign never billed Gov. Palin for any legal expenses related to her vetting and I am not aware of her ever asking the campaign to pay legal expenses that her own lawyers incurred for the vetting process,” he said.

Palin made the charge in her new book, "Going Rogue: An American Life," which listed a litany of complaints Palin had with McCain's campaign, such as its decision to limit her access to reporters. Palin also questioned how the campaign handled the announcement of her daughter's out-of-wedlock pregnancy.

McCain told The Hill that he nevertheless enjoyed Palin's book.

"I hope she sells lots of them," he said.

Palin received a $5 million advance from HarperCollins, according to the New York Times.

You don't consider sorting through the troopergate business vetting?

L.A. Chieffan
11-17-2009, 03:36 PM
I guess what I’m asking is, are you fucking serious?
When I mentioned the Main Stream Media you brought up the Daily Show as a point of reference. After I pointed this out to you, you then go on to defend the response.
Now you want to act like that’s not what you meant.
You’re coming off as pretty freak’n ridiculous here.

i honestly believe you don't know the definition of media. that is why i offered to post it for you.

let me say it again since you can seem to figure this out.

daily show is media
daily show is NOT main stream media

Reaper16
11-17-2009, 03:37 PM
The sample size of authenticated Obama writing is pretty small too.

Regardless of what you think of my case, you haven't even begun to make yours. It was just an unsupported and incredible assertion that people should be able to magically tell that Obama wrote his book simply by reading them. Based on what?
Two books filled with writing is a whole lot larger than one post on a message board. Or are the books not counting as "authenticated?"

You're right that it was unsupported. Its not incredible though. I propose that anyone who doubts me (and they shouldn't because I'm correct) not take my word for it and read Obama's two books. Its like when someone doubts that Tyler Thigpen is a terrible QB -- the easiest and most effective response to those doubts is to tell the doubter to watch Thigpen play.

patteeu
11-17-2009, 03:47 PM
Two books filled with writing is a whole lot larger than one post on a message board. Or are the books not counting as "authenticated?"

You're right that it was unsupported. Its not incredible though. I propose that anyone who doubts me (and they shouldn't because I'm correct) not take my word for it and read Obama's two books. Its like when someone doubts that Tyler Thigpen is a terrible QB -- the easiest and most effective response to those doubts is to tell the doubter to watch Thigpen play.

What if the same ghostwriter wrote both books? Like I said, you have no way of knowing. All you can do is take Obama's word for it.

dirk digler
11-17-2009, 03:51 PM
You don't consider sorting through the troopergate business vetting?

Did you read what McCain and his lawyers said? Anyway why would they pay for her defense if she wasn't the VP nominee? Just to be nice?

PunkinDrublic
11-17-2009, 03:52 PM
Why all the talk about Sarah reading books? Couric asked her specifically what "newspapers or magazines" did Palin read. Couric didn't ask about books.

Yeah that was the biggest softball question that anybody could've answered. How hard is it to say Newsweek, Time, Washington Post, NY Times she's too stupid to even do that. Even when pressed on the question she continued to say all of them like the dingbat she is.

dirk digler
11-17-2009, 03:52 PM
Its like when someone doubts that Tyler Thigpen is a terrible QB -- the easiest and most effective response to those doubts is to tell the doubter to watch Thigpen play.

Not according to pat he thinks Thigpen is better than McNabb, Joe Montana, Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.

:)

Cannibal
11-17-2009, 03:55 PM
Probably will, the left just can't leave her alone.

What do you mean "they can't leave her alone"? She does everything she can to stay in the spotlight. From quitting her job as Governor, to having someone write a book for her, to doing TV interviews. This is all of her own making.

Cannibal
11-17-2009, 03:56 PM
If she'd have went off into the sunset, she'd be a footnote in history by now btw.

Radar Chief
11-17-2009, 03:58 PM
i honestly believe you don't know the definition of media. that is why i offered to post it for you.

let me say it again since you can seem to figure this out.

daily show is media
daily show is NOT main stream media

Good to see you finally acknowledging your mistake, 100 some posts down the road.
Now, what possible point could you have had by mentioning the Daily Show with regards to MSM other than trying to look like a dipshit that didn’t read the post he was responding to?

Reaper16
11-17-2009, 03:58 PM
What if the same ghostwriter wrote both books? Like I said, you have no way of knowing. All you can do is take Obama's word for it.
I would never in a million years think that a ghostwriter wrote "Dreams." The prose is indicative of a raw talent and its frankly better than any ghostwritten memoir I've ever read. It doesn't at all read like Obama told stories to a ghostwriter; the "literary" descriptions and prose stylings are woven throughout coherently.

I don't have a problem with ghostwritten celebrity or political memoir or autobiography. I've read my fair share of them. "Dreams" reads just like a literary memoir (of which I've read a gajillion) and not a ghostwritten book.

Reaper16
11-17-2009, 03:59 PM
Not according to pat he thinks Thigpen is better than McNabb, Joe Montana, Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.

:)
Why do you think I brought Thiggy up in the first place? :)

NewChief
11-17-2009, 04:00 PM
Honest question here. Was that question asked of any other candidate, either President or VP? How about any other seemingly pointless question?

Honest answer. There were several times on NPR where people asked Obama what he was reading and he responded. Much was made of him being a "reader" on NPR. I remember because I teach reading/literacy, and I used it to talk to my students about the importance of being a reader (we always try to find prominent role model readers to talk about).

PunkinDrublic
11-17-2009, 04:01 PM
What do you mean "they can't leave her alone"? She does everything she can to stay in the spotlight. From quitting her job as Governor, to having someone write a book for her, to doing TV interviews. This is all of her own making.

There's this big liberal media cabal that kidnapped her at gunpoint and forced her to go on this whirlwind media interview tour.

Cannibal
11-17-2009, 04:03 PM
I'm always on the go, have little time to read, no books.

ROFL

Cannibal
11-17-2009, 04:04 PM
There's this big liberal media cabal that kidnapped her at gunpoint and forced her to go on this whirlwind media interview tour.

It's a conspiracy I tell ya!

BIG_DADDY
11-17-2009, 04:15 PM
It's a conspiracy I tell ya!

There's this big liberal media cabal that kidnapped her at gunpoint and forced her to go on this whirlwind media interview tour.

Wow, what timing. You guys made it just in time for the Palin thread. Awesome!!!!

It's a shame you missed all the threads about Obama.

Cannibal
11-17-2009, 04:17 PM
Wow, what timing. You guys made it just in time for the Palin thread. Awesome!!!!

It's a shame you missed all the threads about Obama.

Where ya been the last year?

BIG_DADDY
11-17-2009, 04:20 PM
Where ya been the last year?

Like you don't know home boy.

Cannibal
11-17-2009, 04:22 PM
Like you don't know home boy.

ROFL

irishjayhawk
11-17-2009, 04:30 PM
Man I missed a great thread.

First post is talking about sexism while racism was one of the first cards always played by that very side.

Character assassination on Palin? ROFL She does that on her own with her own hypocrisy.

She definitely isn't "rogue" as she knows exactly how the system works and is using it to her full advantage. Rogues usually don't do that.

patteeu
11-17-2009, 04:32 PM
I would never in a million years think that a ghostwriter wrote "Dreams." The prose is indicative of a raw talent and its frankly better than any ghostwritten memoir I've ever read. It doesn't at all read like Obama told stories to a ghostwriter; the "literary" descriptions and prose stylings are woven throughout coherently.

I don't have a problem with ghostwritten celebrity or political memoir or autobiography. I've read my fair share of them. "Dreams" reads just like a literary memoir (of which I've read a gajillion) and not a ghostwritten book.

By all accounts, Bill Ayers is a talented writer in addition to being a radical who conspired to attack America.

I'm sure you're convinced that Obama wrote both of his books and I'm not saying that he didn't, but you can't tell.

patteeu
11-17-2009, 04:35 PM
Did you read what McCain and his lawyers said? Anyway why would they pay for her defense if she wasn't the VP nominee? Just to be nice?

Yes. Why are you asking me why they'd pay?

dirk digler
11-17-2009, 04:40 PM
Yes. Why are you asking me why they'd pay?

Because you are always Mr. Knowitall

BIG_DADDY
11-17-2009, 04:41 PM
ROFL

Yea booking your mom on that world tour was a blast. You would think she'd a slowed down in her ol age but she still gets all revved up on 2 for 1 night.

Good to see you again Junior.

BIG_DADDY
11-17-2009, 04:49 PM
Character assassination on Palin? ROFL She does that on her own with her own hypocrisy.
.

You better watch out, Mary is running around here somewhere blasting people for poor sentence structure.

RedNeckRaider
11-17-2009, 05:12 PM
Who says the Republicans don't learn! They watched as the Democrats propped up a community organizer who reads a recites speeches written by other people incredibly well. A slickly marketed moron unqualified to be the president.

So they answer with a former pin up girl that reads and recites speeches written by other people incredibly well, and is uh... unqualified to be the president. Somebody shoot me for knowing we are f.cked! be it from the right or the left. I guess if we are going to run our country like a circus you have to expect some clowns~

mlyonsd
11-17-2009, 05:21 PM
Who says the Republicans don't learn! They watched as the Democrats propped up a community organizer who reads a recites speeches written by other people incredibly well. A slickly marketed moron unqualified to be the president.

So they answer with a former pin up girl that reads and recites speeches written by other people incredibly well, and is uh... unqualified to be the president. Somebody shoot me for knowing we are f.cked! be it from the right or the left. I guess if we are going to run our country like a circus you have to expect some clowns~

This. Being a raider fan if anyone knew what a circus would look like it's you.

Over-Head
11-17-2009, 05:25 PM
She's hot i'd do her.
(For a free book ;) )

Pioli Zombie
11-17-2009, 05:34 PM
She should have named her book "Stupid Cunt"
Posted via Mobile Device

RedNeckRaider
11-17-2009, 05:44 PM
This. Being a raider fan if anyone knew what a circus would look like it's you.

Very true! rooting for a team that has only won four playoff games going back to the AFL-NFL merger and has one championship in 50 years...oh wait that's the Chiefs :)

Reaper16
11-17-2009, 05:51 PM
By all accounts, Bill Ayers is a talented writer in addition to being a radical who conspired to attack America.

I'm sure you're convinced that Obama wrote both of his books and I'm not saying that he didn't, but you can't tell.
Ayers has written one memoir and a bunch of policy and pedagogy books. That memoir he wrote, from pages I looked up on Google books, doesn't seem to be from the same writer.

Its fucked up that someone would presume that Obama's books are ghostwritten in the first place. Why would that even come to mind?

Norman Einstein
11-17-2009, 05:59 PM
I watched her interview on Oprah last night. She seemed to be in full payback mode. Blaming others for her mistakes. Asking a vice-presidential candidate what books or magazines they read is not a "gotcha" question.

come off as spiteful and disenginous too many times. ex... She says that she doesn't want to talk negatively about Levi Johnson and then in the next breath proceeds to call him Rickey Hollywood and accuse him of launching a porn career.

Can someone please tell me that they would seriously want this woman as President? In charge of our nuclear arsenal?

Probably as many or more that wanted the skitzoid Hillary to be president.

Now, about your real last question. Try considering that it is most probably she wouldn't do as bad of a job as Obama.

There is no way she makes it that far, but I would have rather had her in office than Obamabiden.

RedNeckRaider
11-17-2009, 06:01 PM
By all accounts, Bill Ayers is a talented writer in addition to being a radical who conspired to attack America.

I'm sure you're convinced that Obama wrote both of his books and I'm not saying that he didn't, but you can't tell.

The fact Bill Ayers and his wife are among those in his inner circle speaks volumes about the embarrassment we call a president.

Reaper16
11-17-2009, 06:09 PM
The fact Bill Ayers and his wife are among those in his inner circle speaks volumes about the embarrassment we call a president.
I don't think that has been established as a fact.

RedNeckRaider
11-17-2009, 06:10 PM
I don't think that has been established as a fact.

LMAO RIGHT~

KCWolfman
11-17-2009, 10:10 PM
Mil and a half in sales prior to release. Nuff Said

Reaper16
11-17-2009, 10:12 PM
Mil and a half in sales prior to release. Nuff Said
That doesn't mean shit. Political books like this are always big sellers.

KCWolfman
11-17-2009, 10:12 PM
She should have named her book "Stupid ****"
Posted via Mobile Device

Why? Are you in it?

Reaper16
11-17-2009, 10:13 PM
Why? Are you in it?
I actually laughed at that. I don't know why.

KCWolfman
11-17-2009, 10:16 PM
That doesn't mean shit. Political books like this are always big sellers.

Audacity of Hope AND the POTUS other 3 books combined didn't surpass 900,000 total until four years of release of the first book.

Reaper16
11-17-2009, 10:24 PM
Audacity of Hope AND the POTUS other 3 books combined didn't surpass 900,000 total until four years of release of the first book.

His first book came out in 1995.

SNR
11-17-2009, 10:26 PM
Probably will, the left just can't leave her alone.Do you think this is a good thing?

I don't think it's a good thing at all. It's not good for the Republicans, it's not good for conservatism, and it's not good for the country.

She's got no personality. She makes people from both sides of the political spectrum face palm themselves when she opens her mouth. She's awful.

KCWolfman
11-17-2009, 10:32 PM
His first book came out in 1995.

Even worse

Direckshun
11-17-2009, 10:33 PM
I thumbed through parts of it today.

And, well. It's hard to believe she's all that pro life, because this is one abortion of a book.

Reaper16
11-17-2009, 10:33 PM
Even worse
That first book didn't start to sell a whole lot until it was reissued in 2004, which is probably what you were talking about in the first place.

KCWolfman
11-17-2009, 10:56 PM
That first book didn't start to sell a whole lot until it was reissued in 2004, which is probably what you were talking about in the first place.

Regardless, Palin's book in a single day has outsold the POTUS' four books over the course of several years - vastly outsold.

Direckshun
11-17-2009, 10:57 PM
Regardless, Palin's book in a single day has outsold the POTUS' four books over the course of several years - vastly outsold.

Jesus, I hope Obama doesn't have to match up against her, in say, some election-type arrangement.

He probably wouldn't stand a chance.

BigChiefFan
11-17-2009, 11:03 PM
Jesus, I hope Obama doesn't have to match up against her, in say, some election-type arrangement.

He probably wouldn't stand a chance.
I hope the general public is smart enough not to elect Queen Victoria.

KCWolfman
11-17-2009, 11:04 PM
I thumbed through parts of it today.

And, well. It's hard to believe she's all that pro life, because this is one abortion of a book.

Well, of course, attack the book if you don't like the message, we wouldn't expect your modus operandi to change.

I am sure you are a much better critic than those at the WSJ and the Associated Press. Even the liberal NYT attacks the message via their critic, Michiko Kakutani, but still admits it is well written.


That said, the only truly negative review I have read is from Maria Cox, who like you, admitted she did not read the entire book - hardly the action of a good and honest critic.

stevieray
11-17-2009, 11:05 PM
Palin Vs Direckhun and Reaper16 in a cage match.

sounds fair...;)

Reaper16
11-17-2009, 11:06 PM
Palin Vs Direckhun and Reaper16 in a cage match.

sounds fair...;)
If we're judging the efficacy of politicians by whether or not they can beat me up then we're setting the bar far too low.

stevieray
11-17-2009, 11:08 PM
If we're judging the efficacy of politicians by whether or not they can beat me up then we're setting the bar far too low.

more like her hand on your head while you flail about...maybe you could wear a rey mysterio mask..

Direckshun
11-17-2009, 11:09 PM
Well, of course, attack the book if you don't like the message, we wouldn't expect your modus operandi to change.

I am sure you are a much better critic than those at the WSJ and the Associated Press. Even the liberal NYT attacks the message via their critic, Michiko Kakutani, but still admits it is well written.

Logical fallacy, appeal to authority.

Reaper16
11-17-2009, 11:12 PM
more like her hand on your head while you flail about...maybe you could wear a rey mysterio mask..I have one.

KCWolfman
11-17-2009, 11:14 PM
Logical fallacy, appeal to authority.

Actually, I call 'em as I see 'em.

The book has gotten decent reviews - it doesn't cover much of the material the press wanted, it sounds like a campaign pledge with the last chapter, and it avoids the bloody situations the "Paris Hilton" crowds love to read - but it is called well written by the majority of those who are paid to review such items.

You, however like your extreme liberal buddy, Maria, admit you did not read the entire book, but you didn't like it. Again, it is very hard to take either of you seriously when no real effort is put forth.

Personally, I haven't and won't read it. But I will hardly try to put any spin on it to justify my silly political position as you have obviously done.

Direckshun
11-17-2009, 11:28 PM
You, however like your extreme liberal buddy, Maria, admit you did not read the entire book, but you didn't like it. Again, it is very hard to take either of you seriously when no real effort is put forth.

Well you don't take me really seriously anyway, so I don't exactly wake up in the morning motivated to impress you.

KCWolfman
11-17-2009, 11:30 PM
Well you don't take me really seriously anyway, so I don't really wake up in the morning motivated to impress you.

I have no problem with that.

I just saw a weak attack from an extreme liberal for no reason other than Palin being a conservative. I wasn't expecting an epiphany from you - just pointing out your usual irrational methodology.

Direckshun
11-17-2009, 11:36 PM
I have no problem with that.

I just saw a weak attack from an extreme liberal for no reason other than Palin being a conservative. I wasn't expecting an epiphany from you - just pointing out your usual irrational methodology.

I actually felt that the book was contrived, and there were a number of factual inaccuracies, and Palin seems to exhibit extraordinarily thin skin that at times smothers the content of the book -- getting back at all those who wronged her is clearly the reason an autobiography of a relatively new political career is 400 pages long.

But you know, I'm just irrational so what do I know.

KCWolfman
11-17-2009, 11:55 PM
But you know, I'm just irrational so what do I know.

Agreed

Direckshun
11-17-2009, 11:56 PM
Agreed

I'm glad we had this talk.

Reaper16
11-18-2009, 01:01 AM
Actually, I call 'em as I see 'em.

The book has gotten decent reviews - it doesn't cover much of the material the press wanted, it sounds like a campaign pledge with the last chapter, and it avoids the bloody situations the "Paris Hilton" crowds love to read - but it is called well written by the majority of those who are paid to review such items.

You, however like your extreme liberal buddy, Maria, admit you did not read the entire book, but you didn't like it. Again, it is very hard to take either of you seriously when no real effort is put forth.

Personally, I haven't and won't read it. But I will hardly try to put any spin on it to justify my silly political position as you have obviously done.
Who in their right mind would care to read a review of a book like this? Or even bother to review it? The only considerations should be that the book is revelatory in nature and that its easy to read. Its not like this is anything approaching literary.

Dallas Chief
11-18-2009, 01:10 AM
I don't think that has been established as a fact.

Dude. Whatever the case may be don't be embarassed by it jus because he is your manz, just don't be a dipshit all your life saying such nonsense. Please...

Dallas Chief
11-18-2009, 01:13 AM
The great enabler, our commader and thief, Barack Hussein Obama.

Welcome back BD! Been too long...

Dallas Chief
11-18-2009, 01:18 AM
She should have named her book "Stupid Cunt"
Posted via Mobile Device

Don't make me infract you. I don't play that game but I will if that is what you realy want???

KCWolfman
11-18-2009, 01:21 AM
Who in their right mind would care to read a review of a book like this? Or even bother to review it? The only considerations should be that the book is revelatory in nature and that its easy to read. Its not like this is anything approaching literary.

Evidently a few on this board have reviewed it. And what is wrong with reading the reviews? I don't follow your logic at all.

No one is expecting Fitzgerald or Sinclair, but obviously a great many are reviewing it - much to your chagrin or not.

Again, $$$ don't lie. Her book is titanic in the sales department. Between your attempted comparisons to other political books and Direckshun's decidedly biased and horrid attempt at a review, I would say she not only made some serious cash, but kicked a few liberals in the teeth on the way.

patteeu
11-18-2009, 01:32 AM
Ayers has written one memoir and a bunch of policy and pedagogy books. That memoir he wrote, from pages I looked up on Google books, doesn't seem to be from the same writer.

Its ****ed up that someone would presume that Obama's books are ghostwritten in the first place. Why would that even come to mind?

That's strange. I looked them up and they seem to be from the same writer to me.

Actually, I didn't look them up, but as I just demonstrated, it would be easy for me to say I did. OTOH, Jack Cashill claims to have done a pretty detailed review and he disagrees with your analysis (http://www.cashill.com/natl_general/more_evidence.htm).

Norman Einstein
11-18-2009, 03:56 AM
Do you think this is a good thing?

I don't think it's a good thing at all. It's not good for the Republicans, it's not good for conservatism, and it's not good for the country.

She's got no personality. She makes people from both sides of the political spectrum face palm themselves when she opens her mouth. She's awful.

That would be your opinion. Most have a more realistic look at what and who she is.

Norman Einstein
11-18-2009, 03:58 AM
I hope the general public is smart enough not to elect Queen Victoria.

Too late, they already elected Queen barry. Palin will be a change that Americal can live with.

Norman Einstein
11-18-2009, 04:02 AM
I actually felt that the book was contrived, and there were a number of factual inaccuracies, and Palin seems to exhibit extraordinarily thin skin that at times smothers the content of the book -- getting back at all those who wronged her is clearly the reason an autobiography of a relatively new political career is 400 pages long.

But you know, I'm just irrational so what do I know.

That's an astute review considering you haven't read the book.

Not irrational, politically polarized against Palin.

Pioli Zombie
11-18-2009, 05:19 AM
Mil and a half in sales prior to release. Nuff Said

Why is this a big deal? So one out of every 30 Hillbilly in America bought her book.
Posted via Mobile Device

Pioli Zombie
11-18-2009, 05:19 AM
Don't make me infract you. I don't play that game but I will if that is what you realy want???

Realy?
Posted via Mobile Device

patteeu
11-18-2009, 05:33 AM
Why is this a big deal? So one out of every 30 Hillbilly in America bought her book.
Posted via Mobile Device

30 Hillbilly?

RedNeckRaider
11-18-2009, 05:33 AM
That's an astute review considering you haven't read the book.

Not irrational, politically polarized against Palin.

He only reads books that have no factual inaccuracies you know by writers like Gore and Franken :rolleyes:

Pioli Zombie
11-18-2009, 06:03 AM
30 Hillbilly?
True. Good grammar catch. "Every Hillbilly bought Palin's book" would have been correct. One out of 30 hillbillies would have been the correct usage. I apologize to the hillbillies who bought the book.
Posted via Mobile Device

BigRedChief
11-18-2009, 06:45 AM
Jesus, I hope Obama doesn't have to match up against her, in say, some election-type arrangement.

He probably wouldn't stand a chance.

I saw a part of her interview with Barbara Walters and she was still defending that her living in Alaska was foreign policy experience. :doh!:

NewChief
11-18-2009, 06:52 AM
Regardless, Palin's book in a single day has outsold the POTUS' four books over the course of several years - vastly outsold.

The POTUS was a nobody who had been elected as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review when his first book was released as has already been discussed in this thread. Palin, on the other hand, is a somebody. You're comparing apples to oranges. I'm sure if Palin had written her book after winning Miss Alaska, it would have been a real blockbuster.

patteeu
11-18-2009, 07:00 AM
I saw a part of her interview with Barbara Walters and she was still defending that her living in Alaska was foreign policy experience. :doh!:

She didn't just live there, she was the governor. Of course she had some foreign policy experience.

KCWolfman
11-18-2009, 08:03 AM
Why is this a big deal? So one out of every 30 Hillbilly in America bought her book.
Posted via Mobile Device

I didn't realize sales were isolated to the Appalachians.

BigRedChief
11-18-2009, 08:07 AM
She didn't just live there, she was the governor. Of course she had some foreign policy experience.a govenor of a state for 2 years doesn't make you a foreign policy expert.

KCWolfman
11-18-2009, 08:08 AM
The POTUS was a nobody who had been elected as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review when his first book was released as has already been discussed in this thread. Palin, on the other hand, is a somebody. You're comparing apples to oranges. I'm sure if Palin had written her book after winning Miss Alaska, it would have been a real blockbuster.

No, I am not. Reaper stated ALL political books sold as well as this one does - he was horribly wrong.

McCain's books have sold even worse.

Clinton's My Life sold 100,000 the first day

Hilllary's book eventually sold 1 million, but it took more than a year.

KCWolfman
11-18-2009, 08:09 AM
a govenor of a state for 2 years doesn't make you a foreign policy expert.

She never stated she was an "expert"

stevieray
11-18-2009, 08:12 AM
a govenor of a state for 2 years doesn't make you a foreign policy expert.....but a Senator who voted present over a hundred times is?

NewChief
11-18-2009, 08:14 AM
No, I am not. Reaper stated ALL political books sold as well as this one does - he was horribly wrong.

McCain's books have sold even worse.

Clinton's My Life sold 100,000 the first day

Hilllary's book eventually sold 1 million, but it took more than a year.

I'm not disputing that her book will be successful even by standards set by political books. I do think that comparing initial sales of her book to initial sales (and even subsequent sales over the next several years when the book basically went out of print due to the fact that no one even cared who Obama was during that period of time) of Obama's book is apples to oranges.

King_Chief_Fan
11-18-2009, 08:20 AM
Who in their right mind would care to read a review of a book like this? Or even bother to review it? The only considerations should be that the book is revelatory in nature and that its easy to read. Its not like this is anything approaching literary.

perhaps you would like to point us the books you have written?

BIG_DADDY
11-18-2009, 08:32 AM
KCW, Good 2 C U brother. Long time.

KCWolfman
11-18-2009, 08:47 AM
I saw a part of her interview with Barbara Walters and she was still defending that her living in Alaska was foreign policy experience. :doh!:

In fact, she disputed what you are doing right now, which is ascribing quotes to her actually made by Tina Fey.

Here is the written quote from the article. I have also linked the interview from youtube.


Walter: “Palin, who was mercilessly lampooned during and after the campaign, will forever be associated with Tina Fey’s iconic portrayal to her on Saturday Night Live. [to Palin] Did her impersonation of you harm you?”

Tina Fey “First off I wanna say how excited I am to be in front of both the liberal elite media as well as the liberal regular media”

Palin: “I think that there was a blurred line there between what Tina Fey was parroting and saying and what I ever said. Let’s take for instance she saying ‘I can see Russia from my house’ pretending that she was me.”

Fey: “And I can see Russia from my house.”

Palin: “Well of course I never said that. And yet the line was blurred and I think that people because it was repeated so often that people perhaps believed that I had said such a thing. I think she was funny though and I think she was very talented and spot on.

Walters: “At the time what Palin did say to Charles Gibson is that there is an island in Alaska where one can see Russia and that this strategic proximity was part of her foreign policy experience. Her response to that question came back to haunt her again in an interview with Katie Couric. As did Couric’s question with what she reads.”

Couric – “Can you tell me specifically..”

Walters: “Why didn’t you answer?”

Palin: “Obviously, I was wearing my annoyance on my sleeve and I shouldn’t have done that because it seemed to me she was asking ‘Do you read? How up in there in Alaska in this kind of nomadic Neanderthal atmosphere that you live in how you connected to the world?’ When I had just done an op-ed for instance for our hometown newspaper, The New York Times, I had just been interviewed by all those national medica outlets and that surprised me she hadn’t done that homework. It was very unprofessional of me, though. My fault, my bad that I answered the way that I answered….”


Either you didn’t pay close attention to the interview, or you simply assumed Tina Fey was indeed Sarah Palin. In fact, you are guilty of the same crime that she is complaining about the uninformed doing with her during the election - how ironic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqz7n1B1udA

KCWolfman
11-18-2009, 08:50 AM
KCW, Good 2 C U brother. Long time.

You too, my friend.

KCWolfman
11-18-2009, 08:51 AM
I'm not disputing that her book will be successful even by standards set by political books. I do think that comparing initial sales of her book to initial sales (and even subsequent sales over the next several years when the book basically went out of print due to the fact that no one even cared who Obama was during that period of time) of Obama's book is apples to oranges.

I disagree, even Audacity of Hope didn't sell this well, his book released DURING his campaign.

And Reaper stated ALL political books sold this well, which is blatantly false.

Jenson71
11-18-2009, 09:13 AM
Great book. A classic. Lynn Vincent is a fine writer. The pictures are even better.

KCWolfman
11-18-2009, 09:40 AM
Great book. A classic. Lynn Vincent is a fine writer. The pictures are even better.

Well, she is no Bill Ayers, but you are probably right.

Reaper16
11-18-2009, 10:29 AM
That's strange. I looked them up and they seem to be from the same writer to me.

Actually, I didn't look them up, but as I just demonstrated, it would be easy for me to say I did. OTOH, Jack Cashill claims to have done a pretty detailed review and he disagrees with your analysis (http://www.cashill.com/natl_general/more_evidence.htm).
Sorry, that was really confusing what I wrote. I meant to say that Ayer's memoir doesn't read at all like the author of Dreams From My Father.

EDIT: I read that article you linked to, which is an affront to reason. First off, there aren't any citations to anything, not even page numbers for relevant quotes. Some of it is completely off-the-wall ridiculous. The crux of that article is that Ayers "likely" wrote "Dreams" because: 1.) Ayers and Obama loved close to each other, 2.) Ayers & Obama both used the [common] phrase "behind enemy lines" once and 3.) Obama referenced the Mekong Delta once, which someone his age probably "wouldn't have in their vocabulary" (which is absurd. I learned about the Mekong Delta as a freshman in high school in history class).

BIG_DADDY
11-18-2009, 10:30 AM
Welcome back BD! Been too long...

Thanks.

Reaper16
11-18-2009, 10:34 AM
perhaps you would like to point us the books you have written?
That's fucking stupid, just like you. I wasn't knocking Palin's book with that comment. Its not a literary book and isn't trying to be. There's nothing negative about that. (As for your stupid question, I could point you to essays I've had published in literary journals or reviews I've had published in newspapers but I haven't published a book).

patteeu
11-18-2009, 11:20 AM
a govenor of a state for 2 years doesn't make you a foreign policy expert.

It depends on what you mean by expert. Did she claim to be an expert? Quote?

patteeu
11-18-2009, 11:29 AM
Sorry, that was really confusing what I wrote. I meant to say that Ayer's memoir doesn't read at all like the author of Dreams From My Father.

EDIT: I read that article you linked to, which is an affront to reason. First off, there aren't any citations to anything, not even page numbers for relevant quotes. Some of it is completely off-the-wall ridiculous. The crux of that article is that Ayers "likely" wrote "Dreams" because: 1.) Ayers and Obama loved close to each other, 2.) Ayers & Obama both used the [common] phrase "behind enemy lines" once and 3.) Obama referenced the Mekong Delta once, which someone his age probably "wouldn't have in their vocabulary" (which is absurd. I learned about the Mekong Delta as a freshman in high school in history class).

That's just one of many articles written by Cashill on the subject. I didn't bother to scour his archive to find the most comprehensive treatment. Given your bias, I wouldn't expect you to find it convincing anyway. It does show that your analysis isn't universally shared by those who have read the writing of both men though. :shrug:

Jenson71
11-18-2009, 11:33 AM
I think most people do think Palin said she could see Russia from her house. That shows how influential some things are.

Reaper16
11-18-2009, 11:35 AM
That's just one of many articles written by Cashill on the subject. I didn't bother to scour his archive to find the most comprehensive treatment. Given your bias, I wouldn't expect you to find it convincing anyway. It does show that your analysis isn't universally shared by those who have read the writing of both men though. :shrug:
My bias in this case is towards people knowing how to read and analyze literature and against people that don't do it well. Remember that I'm not one to blindly defend Obama.

I'm sure that there are multiple people who think the books are ghostwritten. They're probably all idiots that read WorldNetDaily.

BIG_DADDY
11-18-2009, 11:42 AM
Jesus, I hope Obama doesn't have to match up against her, in say, some election-type arrangement.

He probably wouldn't stand a chance.

If your Commander and Thief even makes it to the next election it won't matter who he is running against because he's going down like a 16 year old on prom night. Everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie so it won't really matter what he says at that point. In one short year we have went from irrational euphoria making this liar god like to a point where now I can have conversations with people in Whole Foods in the People's Republic of California about what a POS he is and nobody even gets mad at me. MOF some even let me know they agree. The party is over. Dems can continue talking about Palin until they're blue. She is a convenient distaction. What Dems should be worried about is a backlash that will make the one the Reps had in the last election look like small potatoes.

patteeu
11-18-2009, 11:47 AM
My bias in this case is towards people knowing how to read and analyze literature and against people that don't do it well. Remember that I'm not one to blindly defend Obama.

I'm sure that there are multiple people who think the books are ghostwritten. They're probably all idiots that read WorldNetDaily.

Oh, yeah, I forgot. I forgot that you're a college graduate who thinks he knows everything about his academic discipline. Actually, I didn't forget that, but I didn't forget that Cashill is an accomplished author and filmmaker either. I'd put his ability to analyze literature up against yours any day. I'm not saying that he's right about Ayers/Obama, but I am saying that I'm not buying the idea that you're unbiased wrt Obama in this regard (no matter how disappointing he's been to you as POTUS) and that your analysis is no more persuasive than Cashill's.

Reaper16
11-18-2009, 12:45 PM
Oh, yeah, I forgot. I forgot that you're a college graduate who thinks he knows everything about his academic discipline. Actually, I didn't forget that, but I didn't forget that Cashill is an accomplished author and filmmaker either. I'd put his ability to analyze literature up against yours any day. I'm not saying that he's right about Ayers/Obama, but I am saying that I'm not buying the idea that you're unbiased wrt Obama in this regard (no matter how disappointing he's been to you as POTUS) and that your analysis is no more persuasive than Cashill's.
He's clearly trying to pull one over on readers of that article. Its terrible and embarrassing to anyone who reads books. He probably can analyze literature better than I can but he's demonstrating none of that ability in the article you linked to.

I don't know why I would be biased wrt Obama in this regard, you'll have to tell me that one. And I would agree with you that my analysis is no more persuasive than Cashill's because I haven't given an analysis at all, just some cursory observations.

patteeu
11-18-2009, 01:05 PM
He's clearly trying to pull one over on readers of that article. Its terrible and embarrassing to anyone who reads books. He probably can analyze literature better than I can but he's demonstrating none of that ability in the article you linked to.

I don't know why I would be biased wrt Obama in this regard, you'll have to tell me that one. And I would agree with you that my analysis is no more persuasive than Cashill's because I haven't given an analysis at all, just some cursory observations.

Your cursory observations resulted in what appeared to be a pretty definitive conclusion:

Obama's books weren't ghostwritten. You can tell if you read them.

If what you really meant was "Based on a cursory review, it doesn't seem like they were ghostwritten to [Reaper16]", then I don't really have a problem with it.

Reaper16
11-18-2009, 01:07 PM
I went and read some more Cashill on this subject and its very, very pathetic. I'm not generalizing here, these are honest paraphrases: Both people used nautical similies! Ballast? I don't know what a ballast is, so why would [unsaid: this black man] Obama know? Ayers and Obama both have stories of minorities getting picked on in the classroom, that couldn't possibly happen in two different classes! Both writers use writing as a metaphor for lives, its inconceivable that multiple writers would think of people as having stories or narratives! Both writers like to talk about persecuted peoples, that can't be a coincidence that liberals have bleeding hearts can it? NOPE.

Then he uses some dubious program that compares the words used in "Dreams" to Ayer's Fugitive Days and determines that they are objectively written by the same person. I read his 26 page .pdf about it and didn't come to the same conclusion, especially since he didn't use the program to compare Fugitive Days with another Ayer's book or use any control books.

Cashill is apparently from KC, which makes me sad inside. I wan to go throw batteries at the guy for being so completely and totally intellectually dishonest.

Reaper16
11-18-2009, 01:08 PM
Your cursory observations resulted in what appeared to be a pretty definitive conclusion:



If what you really meant was "Based on a cursory review, it doesn't seem like they were ghostwritten to [Reaper16]", then I don't really have a problem with it.
Well, no shit that's what I meant (the cursory review was of Ayer's writing). I happen to think that I am correct, though. I was agreeing that I wasn't anymore persuasive than Cashill because he presented an argument while I didn't.

Calcountry
11-18-2009, 01:09 PM
I watched her interview on Oprah last night. She seemed to be in full payback mode. Blaming others for her mistakes. Asking a vice-presidential candidate what books or magazines they read is not a "gotcha" question.

come off as spiteful and disenginous too many times. ex... She says that she doesn't want to talk negatively about Levi Johnson and then in the next breath proceeds to call him Rickey Hollywood and accuse him of launching a porn career.

Can someone please tell me that they would seriously want this woman as President? In charge of our nuclear arsenal?We won't have a nuclear arsenal after Obama gets done. :rolleyes:

BigRedChief
11-18-2009, 01:14 PM
We won't have a nuclear arsenal after Obama gets done. :rolleyes:Let me guess....sold on Ebay to pay off the deficit?

Norman Einstein
11-18-2009, 01:20 PM
We won't have a nuclear arsenal after Obama gets done. :rolleyes:

We will. He doesn't have the time in office, even at 8 years to wipe us clean of what we currently have, unless he unleashes them enmass on the countries around the world so he can be the supreme dick(tator).

Calcountry
11-18-2009, 01:28 PM
http://www.luckythreadz.com/large/images/grammar_crackers_large.gifRacist. :shake:

patteeu
11-18-2009, 01:28 PM
I went and read some more Cashill on this subject and its very, very pathetic. I'm not generalizing here, these are honest paraphrases: Both people used nautical similies! Ballast? I don't know what a ballast is, so why would [unsaid: this black man] Obama know? Ayers and Obama both have stories of minorities getting picked on in the classroom, that couldn't possibly happen in two different classes! Both writers use writing as a metaphor for lives, its inconceivable that multiple writers would think of people as having stories or narratives! Both writers like to talk about persecuted peoples, that can't be a coincidence that liberals have bleeding hearts can it? NOPE.

Then he uses some dubious program that compares the words used in "Dreams" to Ayer's Fugitive Days and determines that they are objectively written by the same person. I read his 26 page .pdf about it and didn't come to the same conclusion, especially since he didn't use the program to compare Fugitive Days with another Ayer's book or use any control books.

Cashill is apparently from KC, which makes me sad inside. I wan to go throw batteries at the guy for being so completely and totally intellectually dishonest.

Needless to say, I'm not surprised that you don't agree with Cashill's analysis. No need to continue distorting it though.

Reaper16
11-18-2009, 01:29 PM
Needless to say, I'm not surprised that you don't agree with Cashill's analysis. No need to continue distorting it though.
I'm not distorting it. I promise you that.

Reaper16
11-18-2009, 01:32 PM
Racist. :shake:
Racist? You don't see the simple play on words "graham cracker" becoming "grammar cracker?"

patteeu
11-18-2009, 01:42 PM
I'm not distorting it. I promise you that.

I know he didn't just say they both used the word "ballast" and therefore they must be written by the same guy. His analysis may not be absolutely compelling, but you're trivializing it which is a distortion.

Reaper16
11-18-2009, 01:54 PM
I know he didn't just say they both used the word "ballast" and therefore they must be written by the same guy. His analysis may not be absolutely compelling, but you're trivializing it which is a distortion.
Cashill does a fine job of trivializing his own damn self. Here's what Cashill says about the use of ballast: "Indeed, landlubber Obama knowingly manages to use “ballast” as a metaphor. Who knows from Ballast? I don’t."

I was not distorting anything. That was a self-contained paragraph that Cashill thought to be pretty damning evidence. (I know this is anecdotal, but I certainly know what 'ballast' means.)

Calcountry
11-18-2009, 01:55 PM
Racist? You don't see the simple play on words "graham cracker" becoming "grammar cracker?"Why are you defending racism, you must be a racist too.

:shake:

Reaper16
11-18-2009, 01:57 PM
Why are you defending racism, you must be a racist too.

:shake:
You're going to have to explain how that picture is racist to me. I'm open to the possibility but I need you to guide me to the conclusion that you reached.

Calcountry
11-18-2009, 02:23 PM
You're going to have to explain how that picture is racist to me. I'm open to the possibility but I need you to guide me to the conclusion that you reached.I don't have to do shit. I use the same logic that is applied to ones political opponent. I am from the affected race, and therefore, only my opinion on what is or isn't racist matters.

I don't have to defend shit.

Calcountry
11-18-2009, 02:28 PM
Let me put it for you another way, Reaper, remember the white cracker cop that put the bust on the esteemed professor? Right away, automatically, a certain political figure "rushed to judgement" and stated that he acted "stupidly". Based on what? The cop was white, and the professor was "African-American"?

You tell me what standard of racism I need or need not apply? After all, I am from a 14th ammendment of equal protection under the law, pre unqualified to offer an opinion on the subject of race now, since I am a cracker.

Reaper16
11-18-2009, 02:40 PM
So you're not offended at all, nor do you see racism in this. You're just trying to make a political point.

patteeu
11-18-2009, 02:51 PM
Cashill does a fine job of trivializing his own damn self. Here's what Cashill says about the use of ballast: "Indeed, landlubber Obama knowingly manages to use “ballast” as a metaphor. Who knows from Ballast? I don’t."

I was not distorting anything. That was a self-contained paragraph that Cashill thought to be pretty damning evidence. (I know this is anecdotal, but I certainly know what 'ballast' means.)

It's part of a many faceted argument related to maritime references not a stand alone clincher. He can be entirely wrong about Obama's knowledge of "ballast" and not be wrong about the larger point.

patteeu
11-18-2009, 02:54 PM
You're going to have to explain how that picture is racist to me. I'm open to the possibility but I need you to guide me to the conclusion that you reached.

It's racist in the same way that a comparison of Obama's facial features to a monkey is racist.

Black people are sometimes referred to in a derogatory manner as monkeys so anyone who makes a monkey comparison to Obama is a racist.

Cracker is sometimes used as a derogatory term for white people so anyone who uses the word cracker is racist.

Both are equally illogical.

Reaper16
11-18-2009, 03:00 PM
It's part of a many faceted argument related to maritime references not a stand alone clincher. He can be entirely wrong about Obama's knowledge of "ballast" and not be wrong about the larger point.
Here are some other facets: "Although there are no literal sea experiences in Dreams, the following words appear in both Dreams and in Ayers’ work: fog, mist, ships, seas, boats, oceans, calms, captains, charts, first mates, storms, streams, wind, waves, barges, horizons, ports, panoramas, moorings, tides, currents, and things howling, fluttering, knotted, ragged, tangled, and murky. This is not coincidence. This is fraud."

Laughable. None of those words are conspicuous. And Cashill is stretching things (the only thing he knows how to do, apparently) by implying that only writers with sea experiences would use things like 'panorama' or 'howling wind.'

Its offensive to me that anyone would take him seriously when he presents such a bad argument.

Reaper16
11-18-2009, 03:02 PM
It's racist in the same way that a comparison of Obama's facial features to a monkey is racist.

Black people are sometimes referred to in a derogatory manner as monkeys so anyone who makes a monkey comparison to Obama is a racist.

Cracker is sometimes used as a derogatory term for white people so anyone who uses the word cracker is racist.

Both are equally illogical.
Black people have historically been referred to as monkeys an awful lot. There is a lot of precedent in that comparison coming out of a place of hatred.

I'm not aware of whites being called crackers because of their poor grammar, so I don't see it. Perhaps I'm missing something.

NewChief
11-18-2009, 03:57 PM
Black people have historically been referred to as monkeys an awful lot. There is a lot of precedent in that comparison coming out of a place of hatred.

I'm not aware of whites being called crackers because of their poor grammar, so I don't see it. Perhaps I'm missing something.

Just ignore them. They're being idiots, seriously. I like Patt, and he knows I do, but he's overextending himself. I know he'll never admit it as he seems to have taken up anti-PC as his new crusade (no doubt because defending Cheney is no longer a full time job) but it's just so tenuous as to be ridiculous. I know he'll try to claim that the attacks of racism by the Left are equally tenuous, but they're not. Not even in the same ballpark.

Calcountry
11-18-2009, 04:13 PM
So you're not offended at all, nor do you see racism in this. You're just trying to make a political point.Yeah, for the right people, the term "cracka" is a term of endearment.

Now don't you be sayin it though.

That would be racist.

patteeu
11-18-2009, 04:13 PM
Here are some other facets: "Although there are no literal sea experiences in Dreams, the following words appear in both Dreams and in Ayers’ work: fog, mist, ships, seas, boats, oceans, calms, captains, charts, first mates, storms, streams, wind, waves, barges, horizons, ports, panoramas, moorings, tides, currents, and things howling, fluttering, knotted, ragged, tangled, and murky. This is not coincidence. This is fraud."

Laughable. None of those words are conspicuous. And Cashill is stretching things (the only thing he knows how to do, apparently) by implying that only writers with sea experiences would use things like 'panorama' or 'howling wind.'

Its offensive to me that anyone would take him seriously when he presents such a bad argument.

He may go too far with his conclusion (i.e. that it's certain that Ayers wrote "Dreams"), but you seem to understate the degree to which the use of all these maritime references in both men's work is an unlikely coincidence. None of the words alone is terribly conspicuous, but all of them together begins to at least raise the question, particularly in light of the fact that both men were in the Cambridge area at the time (supposedly not having anything significant to do with one another) and both men ended up working together in Chicago.

Jenson71
11-18-2009, 04:17 PM
He may go too far with his conclusion (i.e. that it's certain that Ayers wrote "Dreams"), but you seem to understate the degree to which the use of all these maritime references in both men's work is an unlikely coincidence. None of the words alone is terribly conspicuous, but all of them together begins to at least raise the question, particularly in light of the fact that both men were in the Cambridge area at the time (supposedly not having anything significant to do with one another) and both men ended up working together in Chicago.

Are you suggesting that they are lovers and Ayers would read his book to Obama as he would fall asleep in his lap?

patteeu
11-18-2009, 04:17 PM
Black people have historically been referred to as monkeys an awful lot. There is a lot of precedent in that comparison coming out of a place of hatred.

I'm not aware of whites being called crackers because of their poor grammar, so I don't see it. Perhaps I'm missing something.

Presidents have a recent history of being compared to monkeys in a non-racist way a lot, although this too comes from a place of hatred, albeit non-racial.

patteeu
11-18-2009, 04:19 PM
Are you suggesting that they are lovers and Ayers would read his book to Obama as he would fall asleep in his lap?

I wasn't suggesting that, but now that you mention it, I guess that's a possibility.

Reaper16
11-18-2009, 04:19 PM
Presidents have a recent history of being compared to monkeys in a non-racist way a lot, although this too comes from a place of hatred, albeit non-racial.
I agree. Don't know what that has to do with anything.

Reaper16
11-18-2009, 04:21 PM
He may go too far with his conclusion (i.e. that it's certain that Ayers wrote "Dreams"), but you seem to understate the degree to which the use of all these maritime references in both men's work is an unlikely coincidence. None of the words alone is terribly conspicuous, but all of them together begins to at least raise the question, particularly in light of the fact that both men were in the Cambridge area at the time (supposedly not having anything significant to do with one another) and both men ended up working together in Chicago.
It would help if Cashill included any citations at any point during his articles on the subject. I don't own "Dreams" or else I'd try and look up those <s>crazy nautical references</s> common words.

KCWolfman
11-18-2009, 05:19 PM
Black people have historically been referred to as monkeys an awful lot. There is a lot of precedent in that comparison coming out of a place of hatred.

I'm not aware of whites being called crackers because of their poor grammar, so I don't see it. Perhaps I'm missing something.
I think you are being to precise, deliberately. Using the term 'cracker' in any instance when referring to whites is racist not because of your intent, b ut because of the offended white person's perception. Intent means ab solutely nothing when dealing with harrassment of any form - even the SC has determined that perception is all that matters.

For example, if I said the POTUS is acting niggardly when it comes to dealing with Republicans I would be lambasted for my choice of verb. Not because I am wrong (which I am not) but rather because I used a term with a base negative word used in a derogatory fashion.
Posted via Mobile Device

Reaper16
11-18-2009, 05:35 PM
I think you are being to precise, deliberately. Using the term 'cracker' in any instance when referring to whites is racist not because of your intent, b ut because of the offended white person's perception. Intent means ab solutely nothing when dealing with harrassment of any form - even the SC has determined that perception is all that matters.

For example, if I said the POTUS is acting ****ardly when it comes to dealing with Republicans I would be lambasted for my choice of verb. Not because I am wrong (which I am not) but rather because I used a term with a base negative word used in a derogatory fashion.
Posted via Mobile Device
Zach wasn't referring to a white person with that parody image of a box of saltines. He was referring to crackers.

KCWolfman
11-18-2009, 07:16 PM
Zach wasn't referring to a white person with that parody image of a box of saltines. He was referring to crackers.

You misunderstand. I am not picking on Zac at all. I like Zac. I have hung out with Zac. But this isn't about his intent - it is about Cal Countriy's perception. Welcome to the world of the politically corect - please abide by the same rules you set forth for others.
Posted via Mobile Device

stevieray
11-18-2009, 07:51 PM
Zach wasn't referring to a white person with that parody image of a box of saltines. He was referring to crackers.

no, he was dogging roiy's sentence structure...which is ironic, considering he's been to college and can't apply the word too correctly in a sentence.

RedNeckRaider
11-18-2009, 08:12 PM
It's racist in the same way that a comparison of Obama's facial features to a monkey is racist.

Black people are sometimes referred to in a derogatory manner as monkeys so anyone who makes a monkey comparison to Obama is a racist.

Cracker is sometimes used as a derogatory term for white people so anyone who uses the word cracker is racist.

Both are equally illogical.

http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~fcc/main/what's_a_cracker.htm

It is a term online with calling a black person a nigger. Some versions have it linked to slave owners who cracked the whip on slaves although that is not accurate at all. Another ridiculous definition is the similarity between white peoples color and saltine crackers. The link I attached goes in to detail about the origins of the slang term. To call a white person a cracker is racist and there is no getting around it.

|Zach|
11-18-2009, 09:14 PM
You misunderstand. I am not picking on Zac at all. I like Zac. I have hung out with Zac. But this isn't about his intent - it is about Cal Countriy's perception. Welcome to the world of the politically corect - please abide by the same rules you set forth for others.
Posted via Mobile Device

Hey, where did the H go in my name. I earned that H!

:D

|Zach|
11-18-2009, 09:14 PM
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~fcc/main/what's_a_cracker.htm

It is a term online with calling a black person a ****er.

ROFL

Reaper16
11-19-2009, 01:39 AM
You misunderstand. I am not picking on Zac at all. I like Zac. I have hung out with Zac. But this isn't about his intent - it is about Cal Countriy's perception. Welcome to the world of the politically corect - please abide by the same rules you set forth for others.
Posted via Mobile Device
Here are the rules I set forth: things are either racist or not racist. I can make that judgment because I'm smarter than all you drooling motherfuckers.

KCWolfman
11-19-2009, 02:27 AM
Hey, where did the H go in my name. I earned that H!

:D

Sorry, Zach. Indeed you have

KCWolfman
11-19-2009, 02:28 AM
Here are the rules I set forth: things are either racist or not racist. I can make that judgment because I'm smarter than all you drooling mother****ers.

While you are joking, that is exactly the liberal mindset which I have taken offense to since the quota hires of the 1970s began.

RedNeckRaider
11-19-2009, 06:06 PM
ROFL

This is the thing that amazes me. Many feel it is fine to call a white, asian, hispanic or any other race besides blacks a derogatory name like it is no big deal. To call a white person a cracker is to infer they are an uneducated and white trash. Yet you find that humorous. :rolleyes:

Reaper16
11-19-2009, 06:18 PM
This is the thing that amazes me. Many feel it is fine to call a white, asian, hispanic or any other race besides blacks a derogatory name like it is no big deal. To call a white person a cracker is to infer they are an uneducated and white trash. Yet you find that humorous. :rolleyes:
I think "white trash" is far more derogatory than "cracker."