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View Full Version : Poop Inventor of internet declares earth is several million degrees just down a ways


HonestChieffan
11-18-2009, 10:21 AM
Do we need more proof this guy is a total fraud?



Al Gore on Conan O'Brien's show the other day:

CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST: Now, what about ... you talk in the book about geothermal energy...
AL GORE, NOBEL LAUREATE: Yeah, yeah.
O'BRIEN: ...and that is, as I understand it, using the heat that's generated from the core of the earth ...

GORE: Yeah.

O'BRIEN: ...to create energy, and it sounds to me like an evil plan by Lex Luthor to defeat Superman. Can you, can you tell me, is this a viable solution, geothermal energy?

GORE: It definitely is, and it's a relatively new one. People think about geothermal energy - when they think about it at all - in terms of the hot water bubbling up in some places, but two kilometers or so down in most places there are these incredibly hot rocks, 'cause the interior of the earth is extremely hot, several million degrees, and the crust of the earth is hot ...

The geothermal gradient is usually quoted as 2550 degrees Celsius per mile of depth in normal terrain (not, e.g., in the crater of Kilauea). Two kilometers down, therefore, (that's a mile and a quarter if you're not as science-y as Al) you'll have an average gain of 3060 degrees exploitable for things like home heating, though not hot enough to make a nice pot of tea. The temperature at the earth's core, 4,000 miles down, is usually quoted as 5,000 degrees Celsius, though these guysclaim it's much less, while some contrarian geophysicists have posted claims up to 9,000 degrees. The temperature at the surface of the Sun is around 6,000 degrees Celsius, while at the center, where nuclear fusion is going on bigtime, things get up over 10 million degrees.

If the temperature anywhere inside the earth was "several million degrees," we'd be a star.



http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NDcxYThlNzBkOTcyM2EzZmM2MDEyNjFjOGQ3ZmE5M2M=

KCWolfman
11-18-2009, 10:23 AM
Let's give him a Nobel for his new work

blaise
11-18-2009, 10:25 AM
Let's give him a Nobel for his new work

He'll have to wait. Al Franken, Whoopi Goldberg, and George Clooney are in front of him.

HonestChieffan
11-18-2009, 10:28 AM
He has one already. can he get two?

blaise
11-18-2009, 10:29 AM
He has one already. can he get two?

They'll just change the name to the Al Gore prize instead.

KCWolfman
11-18-2009, 10:30 AM
He has one already. can he get two?

I think he can get one for non-fiction since he has already received the fiction award

Garcia Bronco
11-18-2009, 10:31 AM
Geothermal heating is great. Read up on it here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_heating

But.... the cost is beyond costly. Al Gore is made of money...so he really doesn't understand the plight of you average homeowner.

As a rule of thumb, a geothermal heat pump system costs about $2,500 per ton of capacity. The typically sized home would use a three-ton unit costing roughly $7,500. That initial cost is nearly twice the price of a regular heat pump system that would probably cost about $4,000, with air conditioning.
You will have to, however, add the cost of drilling to this total amount. The final cost will depend on whether your system will drill vertically deep underground or will put the loops in a horizontal fashion a shorter distance below ground. The cost of drilling can run anywhere from $10,000 to $30,000, or more depending on the terrain and other local factors.
Added to an already built home an replacing an existing HVAC unit, an efficient geothermal system saves enough on utility bills that the investment can be recouped in five to ten years.
<LEFT>

alpha_omega
11-18-2009, 10:33 AM
Sounds like some confusion on the exact temperature at the Earth's core...I think we should send Gore down there to investigate.

Rain Man
11-18-2009, 08:09 PM
Hopefully this bad information doesn't lead Conan to do something brash.

Saul Good
11-18-2009, 08:19 PM
Global warming is more serious than I realized.

Brock
11-18-2009, 08:27 PM
It's true because scientists said so /jidar

kcfanXIII
11-19-2009, 04:06 AM
http://tehresistance.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/manbearpig.jpg

he's super serial guys

Rausch
11-19-2009, 04:35 AM
I'm thinking we should probably not look to politicians for our science.

Just me, i'm fucking nutty like that...

donkhater
11-19-2009, 08:33 AM
Why do all Vice Presidents or Vice Presidental candidates have to be total idiots?

Or at the very least, utter the most cartoonish statements of anyone in government?

Quayle
Gore
Palin
Biden

What a quartet of morons

Frazod
11-19-2009, 08:35 AM
Why do all Vice Presidents or Vice Presidental candidates have to be total idiots?

Or at the very least, utter the most cartoonish statements of anyone in government?

Quayle
Gore
Palin
Biden

What a quartet of morons

Cheney was smart. He was also Dr. Evil (without the humor), but he was smart.

Royal Fanatic
11-19-2009, 08:38 AM
If there's that much power available because of the heat inside the earth, just think how much MORE power is available inside the sun!

I think we should run power lines to the sun. That would solve the energy crisis forever.

Where do I get my Nobel prize?

tiptap
11-19-2009, 08:50 AM
And yes Gore misspoke. It isn't temperatures that provide millions, it is the energy represented by the thousand degree temperature found underground. And yes he overstates getting to those depths.

And thanks to Garcia Bronco for the Geothermal reality check. I do think this is the preferable way to go but it is prohibitively expensive upfront. It would have to take a long range view.

Brock
11-19-2009, 08:53 AM
So, basically, he's wrong about the temperature, the depth, and every other fact of the matter.

tiptap
11-19-2009, 08:59 AM
The depth you'd need to go to see Geothermal net energy results isn't so wrong. But the temperature is wrong and the depth to get to even a thousand degrees change is too deep to be practical to drill. But you don't need that temperature difference to extract energy for heating and cooling. Most heat pumps do very well with 50 to 70 degree temperatures and you could get that from wells indicated in Bronco's reference. But that is with a big upfront price tag. You do need a greater temperature difference to produce electricity for our grid.

Rooster
11-19-2009, 09:09 AM
I'm thinking we should probably not look to politicians for our science.

Just me, i'm ****ing nutty like that...

Exactly.

KCWolfman
11-19-2009, 03:18 PM
And yes Gore misspoke. It isn't temperatures that provide millions, it is the energy represented by the thousand degree temperature found underground. And yes he overstates getting to those depths.

And thanks to Garcia Bronco for the Geothermal reality check. I do think this is the preferable way to go but it is prohibitively expensive upfront. It would have to take a long range view.

Misspoke?

You mean lied or was just wrong.
Posted via Mobile Device

tiptap
11-20-2009, 08:52 AM
I believe I stated how I think he misspoke. He confused temperature gradients, which is in the thousands, with the volume of that heat gradient, which in energy terms is in the millions. This is because your take the total energy is equal to the temperature times the entropy of the system. And you can rearrange that to get the temperature is equal to the energy of the system divided by the entropy. Entropy (I meant to say energy, not entropy here) in this case is the system which is the geothermal mass that is providing the reservoir of heat. In a very real sense this is the energy feed for the ideal engine Carnot cycle.

Now I have been a little loose in the science, but essentially the amount of energy represented by the Mass and the Temperature difference between rocks at depth and the surface temperature, provides millions of ergs or watts or whatever energy unit you wish to use.


Look here is this message I misspoke about the energy and entropy. There is a relationship between temperature gradients and total energy and the confusion between the two is easy to mess up and especially when an audience is uninformed of the science. Gore included and myself if represented by the above goof.

Iowanian
11-20-2009, 08:52 AM
global warming is a money grabbing hoax.


If ALgore opens up all of these holes to the center of the earth for Geothermal, global warming preventing energy, isn't he afraid that the millions of degrees of temperature will escape to the surface and warm the globe?

tiptap
11-20-2009, 09:03 AM
The premise, and it is more than a premise, but for argument I will leave that, the premise is that CO 2 is preventing venting of radiant heat out of the earth. And so if you get a heat source that doesn't produce CO 2, then the heat will radiate out. The equilibrium temperature will be stabalized. If the CO 2 or other Greenhouse Gases are increased than the equilibrium temperature rises before the equilibrium is reached between input and output of energy (heat).

KCWolfman
11-20-2009, 10:45 AM
global warming is a money grabbing hoax.



It is the one sure scientific way of grabbing government funds at this time...

tiptap
11-20-2009, 02:46 PM
Well I take a Nobel Laureate judgment over yours and I am talking about in PHYSICS, as in Sec of Energy (not Gore's direction of funding but Chu's choice in directing funding).

Saul Good
11-20-2009, 07:33 PM
Well I take a Nobel Laureate judgment over yours and I am talking about in PHYSICS, as in Sec of Energy (not Gore's direction of funding but Chu's choice in directing funding).

Anymore, winning a Nobel prize is about as prestigious as being featured in "Who's who among American High School Students".

patteeu
11-20-2009, 08:05 PM
Why do all Vice Presidents or Vice Presidental candidates have to be total idiots?

Or at the very least, utter the most cartoonish statements of anyone in government?

Quayle
Gore
Palin
Biden

What a quartet of morons

Whew. For a minute there, I thought you were disrespecting Dick Cheney.

http://tiny.cc/7a9ZX

KCTitus
11-20-2009, 08:51 PM
The depth you'd need to go to see Geothermal net energy results isn't so wrong. But the temperature is wrong and the depth to get to even a thousand degrees change is too deep to be practical to drill. But you don't need that temperature difference to extract energy for heating and cooling. Most heat pumps do very well with 50 to 70 degree temperatures and you could get that from wells indicated in Bronco's reference. But that is with a big upfront price tag. You do need a greater temperature difference to produce electricity for our grid.

While we're drilling, can we also snake a tube down there for some oil?

KCWolfman
11-20-2009, 09:22 PM
Well I take a Nobel Laureate judgment over yours and I am talking about in PHYSICS, as in Sec of Energy (not Gore's direction of funding but Chu's choice in directing funding).

Karl von Frisch wona Nobel for his work in fiction.
Posted via Mobile Device

Jenson71
11-20-2009, 09:24 PM
Whew. For a minute there, I thought you were disrespecting Dick Cheney.

Dick Cheney will go down in history as one of America's worst political criminals. Or maybe I should say "greatest"

ClevelandBronco
11-20-2009, 09:35 PM
I believe I stated how I think he misspoke. He confused temperature gradients, which is in the thousands, with the volume of that heat gradient, which in energy terms is in the millions. This is because your take the total energy is equal to the temperature times the entropy of the system. And you can rearrange that to get the temperature is equal to the energy of the system divided by the entropy. Entropy (I meant to say energy, not entropy here) in this case is the system which is the geothermal mass that is providing the reservoir of heat. In a very real sense this is the energy feed for the ideal engine Carnot cycle.

Now I have been a little loose in the science, but essentially the amount of energy represented by the Mass and the Temperature difference between rocks at depth and the surface temperature, provides millions of ergs or watts or whatever energy unit you wish to use.


Look here is this message I misspoke about the energy and entropy. There is a relationship between temperature gradients and total energy and the confusion between the two is easy to mess up and especially when an audience is uninformed of the science. Gore included and myself if represented by the above goof.

Y'see, there's just gobs and bunches of degrees down there, and when you mash them all together it's like untiptapped energy to the millionth degree.

Iowanian
11-20-2009, 09:57 PM
Conan OBrien just said that researches suggest that a dog has a bigger carbon footprint than an SUV. It takes 2 acres of cropland to raise the food for 1 dog for a year...and then the methane and panting....

tiptap
11-21-2009, 09:34 AM
While we're drilling, can we also snake a tube down there for some oil?

No the oil is found in soft sandstone structures and the best geothermal sites are over hard igneous rock. In fact the idea was put forward 20 years ago (and is still tossed around in Russia) that oil is a geothermal process alone and does not involve organic material being present.

There was a 6 mile dig to investigate this theory (to remove the Peak Oil notion) in igneous rock in Scandanavia. It was a dry hole as they say in the oil business.

tiptap
11-21-2009, 09:43 AM
Y'see, there's just gobs and bunches of degrees down there, and when you mash them all together it's like untiptapped energy to the millionth degree.

Well your statement is basically true even if we both agree tapping that energy is more than just problematic. If you are looking to generate electricity a large temperature gradient is needed so you have to find heat reservoirs near the surface or you do have a very expensive drilling project anywhere else. However I have seen small scale novel drilling methods that super heat igneous rock. Being brittle it shatters and can be removed with potentially less cost than drill bits which are eaten up by the hard rock.

But you do not have to drill as deep, more on the line of a decent water well depth in lots of spots to get enough heat to provide a sink/reservoir for HEAT PUMPs. That would go a long way to reducing CO 2 production and would be cheaper for people over time.

tiptap
11-21-2009, 09:48 AM
Karl von Frisch wona Nobel for his work in fiction.
Posted via Mobile Device


I don't know what this is about. The only thing I could find was something about work on bees the vision and dance by a Karl von Frisch.

You'll have to enlightened me about this.

tiptap
11-21-2009, 09:53 AM
Conan OBrien just said that researches suggest that a dog has a bigger carbon footprint than an SUV. It takes 2 acres of cropland to raise the food for 1 dog for a year...and then the methane and panting....

... that was the punch line at the end wasn't it.

Well yeah, most people agree that meat is a very high carbon footprint and it is true for cats and dogs which are meat eaters. I suggest you bury you meat eating animals as they die and switch to a horse.

Brock
11-21-2009, 10:44 AM
Cats and dogs eat the waste products left behind from human food production. Therefore, their carbon footprint is zero.

KCWolfman
11-21-2009, 11:26 AM
I don't know what this is about. The only thing I could find was something about work on bees the vision and dance by a Karl von Frisch.

You'll have to enlightened me about this.

His information was proven to be false by research completed by other scientists after he received the award.

Lzen
11-21-2009, 11:36 AM
Not only is Al Gore a dipshit, he is also a hypocrite.

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/videos/?uri=channels/338017/612710

KCTitus
11-21-2009, 12:31 PM
No the oil is found in soft sandstone structures and the best geothermal sites are over hard igneous rock. In fact the idea was put forward 20 years ago (and is still tossed around in Russia) that oil is a geothermal process alone and does not involve organic material being present.

There was a 6 mile dig to investigate this theory (to remove the Peak Oil notion) in igneous rock in Scandanavia. It was a dry hole as they say in the oil business.

Oh, can I convert my HVAC system to coal burning? Im trying to increase my carbon footprint. It's too cold.

tiptap
11-21-2009, 01:54 PM
His information was proven to be false by research completed by other scientists after he received the award.

If you mean color vision including ultraviolet sight then you are wrong. If you mean the dance of the bee for the direction of flight to flowers, you are wrong. However he did think that the bee determined the distance to that flower, which it did dance out, to be from the amount of energy it required for the trip but it turned out that the bee just measures the distance visually.

The reason he got the Nobel Prize was for finding that bees communicate to each other about their coming and goings by dance and not for how the individual determination was made initially by the scout bee. So it is simply a more refined addition to his findings about the measurement made by the individual bee.

tiptap
11-21-2009, 01:58 PM
Oh, can I convert my HVAC system to coal burning? Im trying to increase my carbon footprint. It's too cold.

Or tie it to a water sourced heat pump. My guess is that my suggestion will be cheaper over 15 years. But I don't have one so I am not really aggressively pushing this. Though two houses within 3 blocks of me over the last year have done just so.

KCTitus
11-21-2009, 02:43 PM
Or tie it to a water sourced heat pump. My guess is that my suggestion will be cheaper over 15 years. But I don't have one so I am not really aggressively pushing this. Though two houses within 3 blocks of me over the last year have done just so.

Im not looking for cheap, Im looking to produce the most CO2 possible.

jidar
11-22-2009, 08:13 AM
It's true because scientists said so /jidar

****ing retarded.
I never said that, and even if I had Al Gore isn't a scientist.

It's a good example of the type of shit I'm talking about though.

"Dur dur, Al Gore sed the Earth is a million degrees! Scientists are dumb. dur dur hyuck."

Saul Good
11-22-2009, 08:29 AM
****ing retarded.
I never said that, and even if I had Al Gore isn't a scientist.

It's a good example of the type of shit I'm talking about though.

"Dur dur, Al Gore sed the Earth is a million degrees! Scientists are dumb. dur dur hyuck."

Scientists aren't dumb. They're smart enough to know where their bread is buttered, and the e-mails bear this out.

jidar
11-22-2009, 08:33 AM
Scientists aren't dumb. They're smart enough to know where their bread is buttered, and the e-mails bear this out.

Grand conspiracies.

Also, GWB did 9/11

Saul Good
11-22-2009, 08:35 AM
Grand conspiracies.

Also, GWB did 9/11

The e-mails put it out there in their own words. What more proof do you need?

jidar
11-22-2009, 08:51 AM
The e-mails put it out there in their own words. What more proof do you need?

Hadley CRU has problems.
It's not surprising to find bad apples in any group, but they are one small fish in a big pond. Even if all of Hadley were corrupt (which is likely) it doesn't invalidate the vast body of work that is out there.

Saul Good
11-22-2009, 08:56 AM
Hadley CRU has problems.
It's not surprising to find bad apples in any group, but they are one small fish in a big pond. Even if all of Hadley were corrupt (which is likely) it doesn't invalidate the vast body of work that is out there.

Michael Mann is a small fish? He's the most famous climatologist associated with global warming, and he's been busted as a liar. (He was already busted for manipulating data, but this proves that his misinformation is deliberate.)

RedNeckRaider
11-22-2009, 09:05 AM
Anymore, winning a Nobel prize is about as prestigious as being featured in "Who's who among American High School Students".

http://almaz.com/nobel/peace/1994a.html

This says all that needs to be said about the prize. I will say this much I have the same respect for Gore and King Barry as I do this clown~

Saul Good
11-22-2009, 09:24 AM
http://almaz.com/nobel/peace/1994a.html

This says all that needs to be said about the prize. I will say this much I have the same respect for Gore and King Barry as I do this clown~

After you win the prize, do they put your name into an expensive book and then try to sucker the "winners" into buying 20 copies for their friends and families?