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View Full Version : Cardinals Wainwright & Carpenter didn't win the Cy Young


KChiefs1
11-19-2009, 12:15 PM
Tim Lincecum did.

L.A. Chieffan
11-19-2009, 12:17 PM
bong rip to celebrate

blaise
11-19-2009, 12:22 PM
He's a hell of a pitcher. I hate to say it, but he's filthier than Greinke I think.

CoMoChief
11-19-2009, 12:26 PM
Good, he's the best pitcher in the NL.

I would almost think Wainwright and Carpenter cancelled eachother out

Frazod
11-19-2009, 12:26 PM
What a crock of shit. Carp and Wainwright cancelled each other out. I was afraid that would happen.

CoMoChief
11-19-2009, 12:27 PM
He's a hell of a pitcher. I hate to say it, but he's filthier than Greinke I think.

Part of that is his funky delivery. ALmost Hideo Nomo-like. Don't see the ball coming out as well.

CoMoChief
11-19-2009, 12:27 PM
What a crock of shit. Carp and Wainwright cancelled each other out. I was afraid that would happen.

I thought they would make them cy young co-winners if anything

Fruit Ninja
11-19-2009, 12:28 PM
Him winning isnt a crock of shit. Timmy is bad ass and i am a Dodger fan and i hate the Giants with all my being. lol

Frazod
11-19-2009, 12:33 PM
Him winning isnt a crock of shit. Timmy is bad ass and i am a Dodger fan and i hate the Giants with all my being. lol

Whatever. Let's see the motherfucker get a ring. Good luck with that.

Deberg_1990
11-19-2009, 12:34 PM
Im just glad we have Hochevar instead of Lincecum.

BigRedChief
11-19-2009, 12:37 PM
Carp and Waino just split the votes.

Who would you take to start game 1 of the World series? Lincecum is damn good but he can have an off game a helluva lot more often than those two pitchers.

CoMoChief
11-19-2009, 12:44 PM
Im just glad we have Hochevar instead of Lincecum.

lol yeah what a great decision that was.

But nah, Dayton and co WOULD HATE to have 2 cy young pitchers on the same staff.

BigChiefFan
11-19-2009, 12:48 PM
I think Hochevar still has a chance to turn the corner. I think we'll continue to see him get better. He's no Lincecum, not even close, but I don't think we've seen the best of Hochevar, yet.

DeezNutz
11-19-2009, 12:53 PM
Dayton didn't make the Hochevar selection. /clueless/

ChiefsCountry
11-19-2009, 12:55 PM
Hochevar would be a stud under Dave Duncan IMO. But a Greinke/Linecum rotation would have been nasty.

Sure-Oz
11-19-2009, 12:57 PM
Imagine if we had Lincecum and greinke pitching, thats we'd have 16 more wins

oh yea

BigRedChief
11-19-2009, 12:58 PM
Hochevar would be a stud under Dave Duncan IMO. But a Greinke/Linecum rotation would have been nasty.yep, he's the exact kind of pitcher he turns into a 15-18 win pitcher.

DeezNutz
11-19-2009, 12:58 PM
Imagine if we had Lincecum and greinke pitching, thats we'd have 16 more wins

oh yea

We're not going to win shit without an offensive line.

But fuck you for forcing us all to realize that we wouldn't even be .500 with 2 Cy Young level pitchers. Motherfuck...

blaise
11-19-2009, 12:59 PM
I think Hochevar still has a chance to turn the corner. I think we'll continue to see him get better. He's no Lincecum, not even close, but I don't think we've seen the best of Hochevar, yet.

He might get better, but I think his ceiling is a #3 starter on a team with a below average rotation and a #4 on one with a decent one.

BigChiefFan
11-19-2009, 01:03 PM
He might get better, but I think his ceiling is a #3 starter on a team with a below average rotation and a #4 on one with a decent one.I could see him being a number two, if he really improves his control. He has some wicked stuff from time to time, he's just too inconsistant, at this point. I expect better than a number 4 pitcher out of him, but I suspect, you are on the money with him ending up being a solid no.3 guy, down the road.

DeezNutz
11-19-2009, 01:15 PM
When is this road going to be, out of curiosity? He'll be 27 next year, when most pitchers should be entering their prime.

The reality is that he's a 4/5. And on a good staff, he doesn't crack the rotation.

Terrible, terrible selection.

Oh, and Cards fans, sorry about the award thing. But you have Pujols, so I can't feel too bad for you.

thurman merman
11-19-2009, 01:19 PM
Whatever. Let's see the mother****er get a ring. Good luck with that.

serious? or joking?

kcchiefsus
11-19-2009, 01:19 PM
He's a hell of a pitcher. I hate to say it, but he's filthier than Greinke I think.
[size=1][i] Lincecum pitches in the NL. Let's see him dominate the AL like Greinke.

OnTheWarpath58
11-19-2009, 01:20 PM
Oh, and Cards fans, sorry about the award thing. But you have Pujols, so I can't feel too bad for you.

Eh, kinda figured it would happen. Hell, Waino actually had more 1st place votes and lost. That tells me what I need to know.

Plus, Waino and Carp have one of these to ease their pain:

http://www.intergoldltd.com/Images/STL_Player_ring4web.jpg

DeezNutz
11-19-2009, 01:21 PM
Eh, kinda figured it would happen.

Waino and Carp have one of these to ease their pain:

http://www.intergoldltd.com/Images/STL_Player_ring4web.jpg

Well, we have t-shirt Tuesdays, so fuck off.

Frazod
11-19-2009, 01:22 PM
Well, we have t-shirt Tuesdays, so fuck off.

LMAO

Sure-Oz
11-19-2009, 01:22 PM
Well, we have t-shirt Tuesdays, so **** off.

Hell yes

OnTheWarpath58
11-19-2009, 01:23 PM
Well, we have t-shirt Tuesdays, so fuck off.

ROFL

Don't forget Brad Thompson.

Good luck with that.

Frazod
11-19-2009, 01:25 PM
serious? or joking?

Meh. I'm just butthurt because my guys lost. I'm getting over it now.

raybec 4
11-19-2009, 01:35 PM
Good, he's the best pitcher in the NL.

I would almost think Wainwright and Carpenter cancelled eachother out

I normally don't rip on people here but you just went full fuckin retard there

Miles
11-19-2009, 01:52 PM
Interesting note that Lincecum's 15 wins is the lowest total by any Cy Young winner. I would have preferred to have seen Carpenter win it but not having over 200 innings likely kept that from happening.

CaliforniaChief
11-19-2009, 01:57 PM
Im just glad we have Hochevar instead of Lincecum.

Wrong.

Greinke never would have won the Cy Young because they would have canceled each other out PLUS our dominance would have negated Buck Night AND T-shirt Tuesday.

Don't screw with tradition.

thurman merman
11-19-2009, 01:57 PM
Meh. I'm just butthurt because my guys lost. I'm getting over it now.

ok, so you do realize that tim lincecum alone cannot win a world series ring, then?

thurman merman
11-19-2009, 01:57 PM
Wrong.

Greinke never would have won the Cy Young because they would have canceled each other out PLUS our dominance would have negated Buck Night AND T-shirt Tuesday.

Don't screw with tradition.

TRUE. BLUE. TRADITION.

Short Leash Hootie
11-19-2009, 02:05 PM
Carp and Waino just split the votes.

Who would you take to start game 1 of the World series? Lincecum is damn good but he can have an off game a helluva lot more often than those two pitchers.

Who would I take?

Tim Lincecum.

Are you kidding me?

Reaper16
11-19-2009, 02:07 PM
Who would you take to start game 1 of the World series? Lincecum is damn good but he can have an off game a helluva lot more often than those two pitchers.
Irrelevant to the consideration of the Cy Young.

I would have voted for Lincecum, but it was very close. Tim's numbers were straight up better than Wainwright's. Carp would have won it if he hadn't missed a month.

BigRedChief
11-19-2009, 02:13 PM
ROFL

Don't forget Brad Thompson.

Good luck with that.
Thompson signed with the Royals?

OnTheWarpath58
11-19-2009, 02:46 PM
Thompson signed with the Royals?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=218440

BigRedChief
11-19-2009, 02:49 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=218440fitting.ROFL

DeezNutz
11-19-2009, 02:50 PM
Thompson signed with the Royals?

That's right, Cards fans. We took your boy.

Fire up the wambulance.

OnTheWarpath58
11-19-2009, 02:51 PM
That's right, Cards fans. We took your boy.

Fire up the wambulance.

I'm really broken up about this...

ROFL

BigRedChief
11-19-2009, 03:13 PM
That's right, Cards fans. We took your boy.

Fire up the wambulance.
Good thing we still got this guy to soothe our butt hurt.
http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/bird-land/files/2009/03/sicover_031609_pujols.jpg

Ari Chi3fs
11-19-2009, 03:20 PM
Im just glad we have Hochevar instead of Lincecum.

yeah... awesome.

POND_OF_RED
11-19-2009, 03:50 PM
Who would you take to start game 1 of the World series? Lincecum is damn good but he can have an off game a helluva lot more often than those two pitchers.

Really? I understand you're mad that one of your guys didn't win but this is absolutely retarded. The fact that Lincecum did have a few horrid games this season and still matched statistics with Waino and Carp just proves how unstoppable the guy is when he's on his game. The guy is going to have a few games like that while he is young. I can guarantee Carp and Waino had just as many horrid appearances there first couple years in the majors (a lot more actually if you look back at statistics) The consistency will come as he matures in the league. He's going to get even better that's what is so scary about it.

Frazod
11-19-2009, 04:00 PM
How many votes did Zambrano get?

POND_OF_RED
11-19-2009, 04:03 PM
How many votes did Zambrano get?

I think it was the same number as the number of playoff victories for the team with the NL MVP and 2 Cy Young candidates.

thurman merman
11-19-2009, 04:21 PM
Really? I understand you're mad that one of your guys didn't win but this is absolutely retarded.

yeah, having chris carpenter or adam wainwright pitch for you would be absolutely retarded. they are horrible. :spock:

DeezNutz
11-19-2009, 04:32 PM
Good thing we still got this guy to soothe our butt hurt.
http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/bird-land/files/2009/03/sicover_031609_pujols.jpg

I didn't know that steroids could help with butt hurt. Good information. :)

Frazod
11-19-2009, 05:07 PM
I think it was the same number as the number of playoff victories for the team with the NL MVP and 2 Cy Young candidates.

Heh. Nice comeback. Fucker. :D

BigRedChief
11-19-2009, 06:07 PM
Heh. Nice comeback. ****er. :DYeah he shows his face after the season is over.:shake: but it was funny

BigRedChief
11-19-2009, 06:27 PM
ESPN.com’s Keith Law voted Tim Lincecum No. 1, Javier Vazquez No. 2 and Adam Wainwright No. 3. (http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4671356&name=law_keith)
He explained his thoughts on ESPN.com. He are snippets of that:
:Law noted that Lincecum led by wide margins the NL in FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching) and WAR (Wins Above Replacement), “both of which normalize a pitcher’s stats to account for the help he received from his defense.” By a more narrow margin. “he also led the NL in VORP, which adjusts for park.”
As for Carpenter, Law didn’t believe he pitched enough innings. “He pitched extremely well when on the mound, but not well enough to close the value gap between him and the three pitchers,” Law said.
Vazquez, Law said, “ranked ahead of Wainwright in the advanced metrics anyway, but I also gave him extra credit for pitching in the most difficult division in the NL, one in which he had to face two great offenses and only one patsy.”
Law also dismissed the victory totals of the pitchers, noting that it “tells us nothing useful about how well the pitcher performed.”
Here is what Tipsheet find useful: Wins and losses. But maybe we’re just old-fashioned that way.
Will Carroll had Lincecum No. 1, Wainwright No. 2 and Danny Haren No. 3. (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9782)
He explained:
“I felt that Dan Haren had been overlooked because of his team’s performance, but that his performance for them was definitely worthy of recognition. I thought that the Cards had two quality contenders for the Cy Young, but that Chris Carpenter’s time away for injury tipped the scales over to Adam Wainwright between the two of them, that despite the value arguments; consistency and availability are two traits that I don’t think get measured well, but they have clear value for a pitcher.
‘So, that left a decision between Tim Lincecum, last year’s winner, and Wainwright. I called three players and one scout, asking for their opinions. One player hadn’t faced Lincecum—”lucky break,” he said—but he felt that Lincecum looked more hittable. “I’m still convinced that deception is a big part of what Lincecum does,” another said, “and that unless there’s a new wrinkle, people are starting to figure him out. He’s still good, his [stuff] is still good, but comparing him to Wainwright? Wainwright was just a shutdown guy this year.”
“The value of two extra starts might not seem like much, but in a year which featured only one close divisional race, perhaps that marginal value per start isn’t as great in most years, but it’s those starts that tipped my vote.
“My final ballot for the NL Cy Young went Adam Wainwright, Tim Lincecum, and Dan Haren. I’ve second-guessed the Haren pick since turning it in, and maybe I didn’t give Jair Jurrjens enough consideration, but that’s a ballot I feel comfortable with. After turning in my ballot, I sat down with MLB.tv and watched each start for my three vote-getters, plus Jurrjens and Carpenter. The more I watch it, the more I feel like Wainwright and Lincecum are in a dead heat. Lincecum is more dominant, while Wainwright is the better pitcher. The subtle changes Wainwright makes from inning to inning and start to start are more visible in a burst-viewing of condensed games.”

Reaper16
11-19-2009, 06:29 PM
Glad to see Law give some love to Javier Vasquez. I would have put him 3rd on the ballot.

Short Leash Hootie
11-19-2009, 08:49 PM
I think it was the same number as the number of playoff victories for the team with the NL MVP and 2 Cy Young candidates.

LMAO