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View Full Version : Obama Reid and Dems to try to Force their 2000 plus page Health Care Bill Saturday


HonestChieffan
11-19-2009, 04:55 PM
Call Claires office and tell her to vote NO.
Office of Senator Claire McCaskill
United States Senate
Hart Senate Office Building, SH-717
Washington, D.C. 20510
(202) 224-6154
FAX (202) 228-6326




Reid uncertain of tally as healthcare bill heads for rare Saturday vote
By Jeffrey Young - 11/19/09 01:57 PM ET
The Senate is headed for a rare Saturday vote to advance its major healthcare reform bill without a guarantee of success, Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) indicated Thursday.

At a rally with supporters of the healthcare reform bill, Reid would not say he had secured commitments from all 60 members of the Democratic Conference to vote for the legislation an absolute necessity given unanimous opposition from the 40 Senate Republicans.



"We'll find out when the votes are taken," Reid said. Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.), one of three Democratic holdouts, said Thursday that he would announce his intentions prior to the vote but also made clear he still has major misgivings about the legislation, particularly on issues such as federal funding for abortion and the creation of a government-run public optoin insurance program. Democratic Sens. Mary Landrieu (La.) and Blanche Lincoln (Ark.) are also uncommitted.

Despite this uncertainty, Reid and other senior Democrats at the rally predicted they would prevail and enact a sweeping reform of the healthcare system, achieving a goal that has eluded presidents from Harry Truman to Bill Clinton.

"I'm very confident that not only will the Democratic caucus unite around this bill but the American people will unite behind it, also," said Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee Chairman Tom Harkin (D-Iowa.). "We had the New Deal, we had the Fair Deal and this is a good deal for the American people."




Reid also put to rest any notion that the Senate would try to move the bill forward employing budget reconciliation rules that would allow it to pass with just 51 votes, a strategy Democrats had held in their back pockets and that liberal activists and lawmakers had demanded earlier this year. "I'm not using reconciliation," Reid said.

The healthcare reform bill Reid introduced Wednesday would spend $848 billion over 10 years to extend insurance coverage to 31 million more people, which would amount to a 94 percent coverage rate for all legal U.S. residents below retirement age. Including those over 65 and enrolled in Medicare, 98 percent of legal U.S. residents would have insurance coverage, Reid said.

Through a combination of more than $400 billion in Medicare spending cuts and more than $370 billion in new taxes, the bill also would reduce the federal budget deficit by $127 billion over 10 years, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

RINGLEADER
11-19-2009, 04:57 PM
If they don't use reconcilliation this has a 50-50 chance of passing.

Then again, if push comes to shove I don't believe for a moment that Reid won't use reconcilliation. And he'll blame Bush for doing it.

jjjayb
11-19-2009, 05:00 PM
Rush rush rush. We must rush this through. People will DIE if we don't pass this by Saturday. The Republicans just want you to DIE!!!! They hate poor people. :rolleyes:

max sleeper
11-19-2009, 05:50 PM
Or tell Clair to vote YES and get it done! You Cons. just crack me up! Brainwashed by Fox and can't think for yourself!

KCTitus
11-19-2009, 07:00 PM
It was my understanding that Lieberman has stated that he will not vote for any public option. Isn't he number 60?

KCTitus
11-19-2009, 07:11 PM
Or tell Clair to vote YES and get it done! You Cons. just crack me up! Brainwashed by Fox and can't think for yourself!

Let me see if I follow the logic of your argument (and I use logic very loosely)...

There can be no principled disagreement on how to insure 12m uninsured in this country and anyone who does disagree has been brainwashed by a cable news channel?

Did I get it right?

If I dont watch Fox, am I brainwashed from a different source, maybe?

BigRedChief
11-19-2009, 07:12 PM
It was my understanding that Lieberman has stated that he will not vote for any public option. Isn't he number 60?There is an opt out option in it I think....That probably got snow and collins. Thats your 60.

banyon
11-19-2009, 07:12 PM
Force? Like "Put to an up-or-down-vote" like we heard so many times from 01-06?

Or force like "use the rules of congress to request a vote" as every other bill in the history of the republic has had done?

Where's the "force"?

KCTitus
11-19-2009, 07:16 PM
There is an opt out option in it I think....

We both know that's not the case, but you're right, Im sure it's enough to fool those two idiots

BigRedChief
11-19-2009, 08:02 PM
We both know that's not the case, but you're right, Im sure it's enough to fool those two idiotsI really don't know. Haven't been paying attention because they are going to pass a health care bill in the senate. Its when the compromise starts between the house bill and the senate bill that the "real" bill is going to be made and then it goes back to teh senate and the house for votes again.

max sleeper
11-19-2009, 08:08 PM
Let me see if I follow the logic of your argument (and I use logic very loosely)...

There can be no principled disagreement on how to insure 12m uninsured in this country and anyone who does disagree has been brainwashed by a cable news channel?

Did I get it right?

If I dont watch Fox, am I brainwashed from a different source, maybe?

So do you watch Fox or listen to its affiliated radio stations? 12m is way low so I'm betting you do! 12m= brainwashed! Disagreement and debate are a good thing as long as they are constructive and moving towards a goal. Scare tactics and fear for ratings is my point (and I DO NOT use point very loosely).... Go Chiefs!

KCTitus
11-19-2009, 08:17 PM
So do you watch Fox or listen to its affiliated radio stations? 12m is way low so I'm betting you do! 12m= brainwashed! Disagreement and debate are a good thing as long as they are constructive and moving towards a goal. Scare tactics and fear for ratings is my point (and I DO NOT use point very loosely).... Go Chiefs!

12m...do you know where to find that number? It's not from Fox.

Disagreement and debate are good things as long as they are constructive, yet you've called me brainwashed. How in the world is that constructive? Where are my scare tactics?

Would you say that using a number like 47 million uninsured -- which has been proved false is a scare tactic?

Direckshun
11-19-2009, 08:31 PM
I don't understand how elected officials putting a bill to a vote is "forcing" anything.

Maybe you can explain that to me, HCF.

Or maybe you're just being a dishonest chickenshit and won't say anything.

Taco John
11-19-2009, 08:35 PM
Force? Like "Put to an up-or-down-vote" like we heard so many times from 01-06?

Or force like "use the rules of congress to request a vote" as every other bill in the history of the republic has had done?

Where's the "force"?

If it passes, the force will come in the form of jail if you don't want to participate.

max sleeper
11-19-2009, 08:38 PM
12m...do you know where to find that number? It's not from Fox.

Disagreement and debate are good things as long as they are constructive, yet you've called me brainwashed. How in the world is that constructive? Where are my scare tactics?

Would you say that using a number like 47 million uninsured -- which has been proved false is a scare tactic?

I would love to comb through all 20000+ of your post on CP but life is calling...

this one stopped me and I can go no more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper16 View Post
Not just mannerisms but Beck's entire style of just saying crazy shit and thinking that when people don't deny the crazy shit it confirms the crazy shit.

YOU
What 'crazy shit'...explain what's crazy, false or otherwise. Beck has actually said he wants to be 'crazy' but NO ONE on the left has actually engaged in addressing the things he's spoken about. Instead the left repeats, 'he says crazy shit' and people like you repeat it.

You defend BECK!!! Fail! So answer the ? do you watch Fox or listen to it's radio mob? 12m from the CBO? Not sure were you get that#

Taco John
11-19-2009, 08:39 PM
I would love to comb through all 20000+ of your post on CP but life is calling...

this one stopped me and I can go no more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper16 View Post
Not just mannerisms but Beck's entire style of just saying crazy shit and thinking that when people don't deny the crazy shit it confirms the crazy shit.

YOU
What 'crazy shit'...explain what's crazy, false or otherwise. Beck has actually said he wants to be 'crazy' but NO ONE on the left has actually engaged in addressing the things he's spoken about. Instead the left repeats, 'he says crazy shit' and people like you repeat it.

You defend BECK!!! Fail! So answer the ? do you watch Fox or listen to it's radio mob? 12m from the CBO? Not sure were you get that#

You're not very good at this.

KCTitus
11-19-2009, 08:47 PM
I would love to comb through all 20000+ of your post on CP but life is calling...

this one stopped me and I can go no more

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper16 View Post
Not just mannerisms but Beck's entire style of just saying crazy shit and thinking that when people don't deny the crazy shit it confirms the crazy shit.

YOU
What 'crazy shit'...explain what's crazy, false or otherwise. Beck has actually said he wants to be 'crazy' but NO ONE on the left has actually engaged in addressing the things he's spoken about. Instead the left repeats, 'he says crazy shit' and people like you repeat it.

You defend BECK!!! Fail! So answer the ? do you watch Fox or listen to it's radio mob? 12m from the CBO? Not sure were you get that#

That's a distraction from your original point. Let's stay focused...remember, your argument was that those that disagree with this health care bill, are brainwashed and that's because of Fox News.

To arrive at the 12m number, it's a combination of sources. I'd even be willing to let you talk me up to 20m uninsured because the numbers are fluid and with the level of unemployment today, it's most assuredly gone up...one thing I do know is the number trotted by all news sources is 47m which is false.

The problem with the Census number, which is where the 47m was originally trotted out, is it counts illegal immigrants, people who are eligible for some form of government program, most likely medicare, those people who could afford to buy insurance but choose not to, and finally those who are in between jobs or uninsured for a period of less than a year.

I found that CBO and Heritage Foundation have done a pretty good analysis on the number. I guess the biggest question to you is why didnt you know this? What news station or radio affiliate do you listen to, that did not give you this information?

KCWolfman
11-19-2009, 08:48 PM
Rush rush rush. We must rush this through. People will DIE if we don't pass this by Saturday. The Republicans just want you to DIE!!!! They hate poor people. :rolleyes:

Yeah thank goodness we can cool our heels on Afghanistan as no one is getting hurt over there while we evaluate.
Posted via Mobile Device

petegz28
11-19-2009, 09:20 PM
I believe the state of LA is getting a $100 mil payoff to get Landrau on board.

petegz28
11-19-2009, 09:21 PM
Yeah thank goodness we can cool our heels on Afghanistan as no one is getting hurt over there while we evaluate.
Posted via Mobile Device

Rep!

donkhater
11-19-2009, 09:23 PM
Ried is going to put it to a vote without knowing if he has the votes? Yeah, right.

Can you say cohersion? Politics? Not giving a sh!t if the bill is worth a crap, but since your caucus leader wrote it, by God you better vote for it or not get any support in your re-election when you come up for it again (or worse).

wild1
11-19-2009, 09:41 PM
Get your operations now, people...

KCTitus
11-19-2009, 09:48 PM
Get your operations now, people...

I was hearing about this Costa Rica Vacation/Medical trip stuff the other day...Im intrigued. Entrepreneurs will find a way, I guess.

fan4ever
11-19-2009, 09:58 PM
That's a distraction from your original point. Let's stay focused...remember, your argument was that those that disagree with this health care bill, are brainwashed and that's because of Fox News.

To arrive at the 12m number, it's a combination of sources. I'd even be willing to let you talk me up to 20m uninsured because the numbers are fluid and with the level of unemployment today, it's most assuredly gone up...one thing I do know is the number trotted by all news sources is 47m which is false.

The problem with the Census number, which is where the 47m was originally trotted out, is it counts illegal immigrants, people who are eligible for some form of government program, most likely medicare, those people who could afford to buy insurance but choose not to, and finally those who are in between jobs or uninsured for a period of less than a year.

I found that CBO and Heritage Foundation have done a pretty good analysis on the number. I guess the biggest question to you is why didnt you know this? What news station or radio affiliate do you listen to, that did not give you this information?

I can't believe you're wasting your time on this guy; you must have downed an energy drink before all of this.

KCTitus
11-19-2009, 10:03 PM
I can't believe you're wasting your time on this guy; you must have downed an energy drink before all of this.

It was 3 posts, he scurried out of here when he realized he was out matched.

fan4ever
11-19-2009, 10:04 PM
It was 3 posts, he scurried out of here when he realized he was out matched.

I was almost embarrassed for him.

max sleeper
11-19-2009, 10:54 PM
You're not very good at this.

Hey Johnny boy if I was in for 40000 post and spent all day on here you might have a point! But I see the light of day and have a job were I not f...n off of CP all day so move on!

Guru
11-19-2009, 11:00 PM
Hey Johnny boy if I was in for 40000 post and spent all day on here you might have a point! But I see the light of day and have a job were I not f...n off of CP all day so move on!

Total Posts: 42,825
Posts Per Day: 13.85

Yeah, what a big waste of a day. A whole 13.85 posts.:rolleyes:

max sleeper
11-19-2009, 11:05 PM
It was 3 posts, he scurried out of here when he realized he was out matched.

DO YOU WATCH FOX OR NOT... the original point!? You keep dodging the ? We could sit here and play games all day/night (for you guys) You act like you are speaking for the majority of the country when talking against health care reform... you are NOT! Obama was elected to do a job and this is part of it. Cry and bitch all you want (again see the # of your post) Fox is not fair and balanced and you my friend can't see that. They tell you they are... and you believe it!

max sleeper
11-19-2009, 11:08 PM
Total Posts: 42,825
Posts Per Day: 13.85

Yeah, what a big waste of a day. A whole 13.85 posts.:rolleyes:

7 days a week? 52 weeks a year? 9 years? Jeez take Christmas off! When you say DAY do you mean productivity?

max sleeper
11-19-2009, 11:14 PM
That's a distraction from your original point. Let's stay focused...remember, your argument was that those that disagree with this health care bill, are brainwashed and that's because of Fox News.

To arrive at the 12m number, it's a combination of sources. I'd even be willing to let you talk me up to 20m uninsured because the numbers are fluid and with the level of unemployment today, it's most assuredly gone up...one thing I do know is the number trotted by all news sources is 47m which is false.

The problem with the Census number, which is where the 47m was originally trotted out, is it counts illegal immigrants, people who are eligible for some form of government program, most likely medicare, those people who could afford to buy insurance but choose not to, and finally those who are in between jobs or uninsured for a period of less than a year.

I found that CBO and Heritage Foundation have done a pretty good analysis on the number. I guess the biggest question to you is why didnt you know this? What news station or radio affiliate do you listen to, that did not give you this information?

You bring up illegals...are they not paying taxes? Taxes to send your kids to school... taxes to pave your roads... taxes to fund your military? Should they not be able to take advantage of a system they are paying into? So they should not be counted? 47m seems high but we are talking millions and that in it self is a shame!

max sleeper
11-19-2009, 11:18 PM
If you girls don't mind I need to get some zzzz's Titt-us again you were defending Beck!!! That is all!

Taco John
11-20-2009, 01:37 AM
Hey Johnny boy if I was in for 40000 post and spent all day on here you might have a point! But I see the light of day and have a job were I not f...n off of CP all day so move on!


I'm a marketing director, and a key cog in the company I work for and am in no danger of losing my job for lack of effort.

But what does that have anything to do with the really weak points that you're making?

talastan
11-20-2009, 10:56 AM
You bring up illegals...are they not paying taxes? Taxes to send your kids to school... taxes to pave your roads... taxes to fund your military? Should they not be able to take advantage of a system they are paying into? So they should not be counted? 47m seems high but we are talking millions and that in it self is a shame!

Generally.... NO!!

Outside of maybe local and state sales taxes, they aren't paying into SSA or and other Federal programs that many of them take advantage of. If we'd go from the progressive BS income tax to the Fair tax, I'd see a slight bit more validity to your arguement. They are here illegally so how can they pay taxes and not be found from the government? Use your head and common sense instead of your DNC talking points buddy.

KCWolfman
11-20-2009, 11:09 AM
DO YOU WATCH FOX OR NOT... the original point!? You keep dodging the ? We could sit here and play games all day/night (for you guys) You act like you are speaking for the majority of the country when talking against health care reform... you are NOT! Obama was elected to do a job and this is part of it. Cry and bitch all you want (again see the # of your post) Fox is not fair and balanced and you my friend can't see that. They tell you they are... and you believe it!

He was also elected to create "shovel ready" jobs and reinforce us in Afghanistan. Unfortunately, unemployment has skyrocketed under his watch and more American men and women die every month in Afghanistan than ever did under the previous Administration while he sits on his ass deciding if he should take further action or not.

Fox News has reported both actions - MSNBC could certainly follow suit and report this data more often.

KCWolfman
11-20-2009, 11:10 AM
You bring up illegals...are they not paying taxes? Taxes to send your kids to school... taxes to pave your roads... taxes to fund your military? Should they not be able to take advantage of a system they are paying into? So they should not be counted? 47m seems high but we are talking millions and that in it self is a shame!

When 1 out of every 10 documented Americans are unemployed?

Nope they shouldn't. Get the f out of my country.

KCTitus
11-20-2009, 03:40 PM
DO YOU WATCH FOX OR NOT... the original point!? You keep dodging the ? We could sit here and play games all day/night (for you guys) You act like you are speaking for the majority of the country when talking against health care reform... you are NOT! Obama was elected to do a job and this is part of it. Cry and bitch all you want (again see the # of your post) Fox is not fair and balanced and you my friend can't see that. They tell you they are... and you believe it!

The original premise was that anyone disagrees with the current proposed legislation is brainwashed, and you specified Fox News. I dont watch Fox, matter of fact, I really dont watch televised news of any source.

'Health Care Reform' as currently constituted is opposed by roughly 60% of the country. I think I am speaking for the majority in this case. Again, I really am concerned with your lack of specific knowledge in this area, and Im beginning to question your sources because whatever you're getting is not complete information.

Im not really sure what the number of posts has to do with anything, but I will say that more than 80% of them were not in this forum.

So now that Ive answered your question, why not answer mine...why didnt you know that the 47m uninsured number was incorrect or how to find the sources to ascertain a more accurate number and why didnt you realize that health care reform is opposed by a large majority of people when they understand the details in the proposed legislation.

KCTitus
11-20-2009, 03:48 PM
You bring up illegals...are they not paying taxes? Taxes to send your kids to school... taxes to pave your roads... taxes to fund your military? Should they not be able to take advantage of a system they are paying into? So they should not be counted? 47m seems high but we are talking millions and that in it self is a shame!

As a rule, no they dont pay taxes, however, they would pay some sales taxes. The principled problem I have here is that they are illegal. I really dont give one good damn if they pay taxes or not, they're illegal and have no right to any service in this country. Fox News or any other person isnt telling me to say that, I believe that in my core. I have always believed that and no television show is going to change that.

So bottom line, to me they shouldnt be counted. But that's just one of the 3 other categories I cited. There are over 300m in this country...blowing up a system that works for 95% of the country does not make any logical sense. Sure there are those that need insurance, but that 5% could be funded with a small amount of the 800b in 'stimulus' funds that have yet to be spent.

But back to my question, why is it that you didnt know these things? What news sources do you use, because I think we're starting to get the real picture on who is brainwashed.

Donger
11-20-2009, 03:50 PM
So bottom line, to me they shouldnt be counted. But that's just one of the 3 other categories I cited. There are over 300m in this country...blowing up a system that works for 95% of the country does not make any logical sense. Sure there are those that need insurance, but that 5% could be funded with a small amount of the 800b in 'stimulus' funds that have yet to be spent.

Because that wouldn't give the Democrats what they want, and health care isn't it.

KCTitus
11-20-2009, 03:52 PM
Because that wouldn't give the Democrats what they want, and health care isn't it.

Yes, yes...but I cant get there yet, that would melt Mr. sleeper's brain.

max sleeper
11-20-2009, 07:32 PM
As a rule, no they dont pay taxes, however, they would pay some sales taxes. The principled problem I have here is that they are illegal. I really dont give one good damn if they pay taxes or not, they're illegal and have no right to any service in this country. Fox News or any other person isnt telling me to say that, I believe that in my core. I have always believed that and no television show is going to change that.

So bottom line, to me they shouldnt be counted. But that's just one of the 3 other categories I cited. There are over 300m in this country...blowing up a system that works for 95% of the country does not make any logical sense. Sure there are those that need insurance, but that 5% could be funded with a small amount of the 800b in 'stimulus' funds that have yet to be spent.

But back to my question, why is it that you didnt know these things? What news sources do you use, because I think we're starting to get the real picture on who is brainwashed.

My source is Conservative talk only (save CP) Fox news every hour on the hour 6 days a week. Some PBS Nova mostly and BBC Guys.... can't do this again tonight... life is calling. See you on the lounge side!

Saul Good
11-20-2009, 07:38 PM
You bring up illegals...are they not paying taxes? Taxes to send your kids to school... taxes to pave your roads... taxes to fund your military? Should they not be able to take advantage of a system they are paying into? So they should not be counted? 47m seems high but we are talking millions and that in it self is a shame!

I agree. It's about time that we give something back to the illegals after all they have given us.

banyon
11-20-2009, 07:44 PM
If it passes, the force will come in the form of jail if you don't want to participate.

Yeah, go ahead and evade taxes and see how it goes, Nelson Mandela.

Cannibal
11-20-2009, 07:53 PM
We will get a healthcare bill. But it won't be nearly as much as I want. The Dems are complete Twats. The republicans could wrest power permanently if they didn't have all those right wing religious-nut job-asshole-cocksucking-ass licking-wastes of human flesh.

KCTitus
11-20-2009, 08:23 PM
My source is Conservative talk only (save CP) Fox news every hour on the hour 6 days a week. Some PBS Nova mostly and BBC Guys.... can't do this again tonight... life is calling. See you on the lounge side!

That's right, max, run along. Let the grown folk talk here.