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banyon
11-22-2009, 09:19 AM
Tiahrt e-mail ties Moran to communists

http://www.kansas.com/news/story/1062098.html


BY dion lefler
The Wichita Eagle
The Jerry Moran campaign is seeing red over an e-mail from Senate rival Todd Tiahrt's campaign that implies Moran is a fellow traveler of the Communist Party.

The e-mail subject line asserts falsely that Moran has been endorsed by the Communist Party USA.

"The assertion that Jerry Moran would be affiliated with communists is so outlandish, only a desperate campaign like Todd Tiahrt's would make such an assertion," said Moran campaign spokesman Aaron Trost. "It's a desperate public statement by a campaign that's still trying to find a message."

Tiahrt spokeswoman Michelle Schroeder said the e-mail was sent to select supporters to remind them of "the good conservatives who support Todd and Todd's campaign."

Moran, who represents Kansas' 1st District in Congress, and Tiahrt, who represents the 4th District, are locked in a struggle for their party's nomination for the Senate seat being vacated by Republican Sam Brownback, who is running for governor.

Moran led Tiahrt 43 to 27 percent in an October SurveyUSA poll commissioned by KWCH-TV Wichita and KCTV-TV Kansas City.

The e-mail at issue came from the Tiahrt press office Tuesday with the subject line "Moran picks up endorsement from Communist Party USA."

The body of the e-mail reads, "While our opponent's legislation to allow travel between the United States and Cuba has picked up the endorsement of the Communist Party USA, we are pleased to remind you of the groups endorsing Todd Tiahrt for the U.S. Senate."

Then follows a list of well-known conservatives who have endorsed Tiahrt, including former Attorney General John Ashcroft, former Education Secretary Bill Bennett and activist Phyllis Schlafly.

The Tiahrt e-mail contains a link to a statement by the Communist Party urging people to call their representatives and senators in support of House Resolution 874 and Senate Bill 428, which would lift a ban on U.S. citizens traveling to Cuba.

The statement makes no mention of Moran.

According to the Library of Congress, the House bill has 179 co-sponsors Moran included and the Senate version, 33. The bill has bipartisan support ranging from self-described socialist Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vermont, to libertarian Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas.

A contact number for the Communist Party in Missouri and Kansas was disconnected and a spokesman for the national party in New York did not return a phone call seeking comment.

As a matter of policy, the Communist Party does not endorse candidates, according to its Web site, www.cpusa.org.

The restriction on private travel to the island country 90 miles south of Florida dates back to an economic embargo begun in 1960 after the Fidel Castro-led communist revolution took power in Cuba.

Moran supports lifting the ban on travel and trade with Cuba in hopes of opening a new market for Kansas agriculture.

In the past, Tiahrt also has been supportive of relaxing sanctions and was quoted in a 2002 Wichita Eagle article saying, "I'd like to see Castro's palace in Havana stacked to the rafters with wheat."

Trost said the e-mail not only wrongly accuses Moran of communist sympathies, but also exposes a Tiahrt "flip-flop" on the issue.

"He's been all over the map," Trost said.

Schroeder said she does not know Tiahrt's position on engagement with Cuba, but that trade and the travel ban are separate issues.

Washburn University professor Robert Beatty's initial reaction to the Tiahrt campaign's e-mail was "Is this real?"

He said at first, he thought it might just have been an inside-the-office joke among Tiahrt staffers.

"It sounds like a joke, it's so silly," he said. "It's obvious that Jerry Moran is not a communist."

Beatty, who teaches political science and international affairs, said the irony is that there's "a lot of evidence to show the Castro regime which is Fidel and his brother, Raul is actually propped up by the U.S. sanctions. It allows them to unify (Cubans) against a common enemy."

Beatty said that when he traveled to Cuba on an academic trip one of the allowed exceptions to the travel ban "Cubans kept saying to us, it's your blockade that's keeping Castro in power."

He said U.S. engagement with communist countries around the world has led to incremental democratic and economic reform, and the only reason the sanctions against Cuba haven't already been lifted is because of the importance of the Cuban expatriate population to both the Republican and Democratic parties.

Heavily concentrated in Florida, Cubans who fled the Castro regime represent a key voting bloc in a critical swing state in national elections, Beatty said.

The expatriates oppose normalizing relations with Cuba because it would hurt any potential they have to reclaim property that was seized in the revolution, he said.

He said he hopes the flap over the Tiahrt campaign e-mail could lead to a serious debate between the candidates on U.S.-Cuba relations.

Reach Dion Lefler at 316-268-6527.



Read more: http://www.kansas.com/news/story/1062098.html#ixzz0Xc7AtxDf

banyon
11-22-2009, 09:23 AM
I've got my issues with Moran, but Tihart is just an out and out clown. I can't vote in the Rep. primary, obviously, but I wish luck to whoever keeps Todd T. out of office.

Saul Good
11-22-2009, 09:29 AM
The thread title is BS.

According to the article, Tihart didn't say that Moran is Communist. He just said that Communists endorse the idea of allowing travel between the US and Cuba. I don't know anything about either of these two, but the thread title and the rest of the article really don't accurately depict what was said.

(After re-reading it, the subject line of the e-mail was intentionally sensationalized, but the e-mail itself clarified the point. It's pretty stupid, but it's still nowhere near accusing him of being a Communist.)

banyon
11-22-2009, 09:32 AM
The thread title is BS.

According to the article, Tihart didn't say that Moran is Communist. He just said that Communists endorse the idea of allowing travel between the US and Cuba. I don't know anything about either of these two, but the thread title and the rest of the article really don't accurately depict what was said.

(After re-reading it, the subject line of the e-mail was intentionally sensationalized, but the e-mail itself clarified the point. It's pretty stupid, but it's still nowhere near accusing him of being a Communist.)

The subject line of the email (which is itself a lazy distortion on Tihart's part) does accuse Moran of being a Communist, hence the replies in the article like "obviously Moran is not a Communist".

Saul Good
11-22-2009, 09:35 AM
The subject line of the email (which is itself a lazy distortion on Tihart's part) does accuse Moran of being a communist, hence the replies in the article like "obviously Moran is not a communist".

"Moran picks up endorsement from Communist Party USA" does not equal "Moran is a Communist".

When Bill Clinton won the endorsement of the NAACP, that did not mean that he was, therefore, a colored person.

banyon
11-22-2009, 09:38 AM
"Moran picks up endorsement from Communist Party USA" does not equal "Moran is a Communist".

When Bill Clinton won the endorsement of the NAACP, that did not mean that he was, therefore, a colored person.

Why did the Tihart campaign circulate that then? Just wanted the public informed on a minor irrelevant party's opinion of a pretty small part of policy concerns?

Saul Good
11-22-2009, 05:16 PM
Why did the Tihart campaign circulate that then? Just wanted the public informed on a minor irrelevant party's opinion of a pretty small part of policy concerns?

It wasn't brilliant strategy or anything, but he didn't call him a Communist. He was implying that he

Chocolate Hog
11-23-2009, 11:20 AM
Moran was aginst the department of homeland security so he gets my vote.

KCWolfman
11-24-2009, 07:04 AM
I don't see where he called him a Communist.

Where is that?

KCWolfman
11-24-2009, 07:05 AM
Why did the Tihart campaign circulate that then? Just wanted the public informed on a minor irrelevant party's opinion of a pretty small part of policy concerns?

So, you admit the article is dishonest in the title?

Regardless of the leanings or "minor" issues, it is all relevant. Unlike you, I believe the friends, preachers, and other people in a candidate's life form who he/she is.

See Ulysses Grant for example

Saggysack
11-24-2009, 07:34 AM
It's going to be a great day for Kansas when they lose the Tumor, oops I mean Tiahrt.

wild1
11-24-2009, 08:56 AM
The subject of that email was ill-advised, but the title of this topic is not true. Unless I missed something, they didn't accuse him of being a communist, they just said he was endorsed by communists.

banyon
11-24-2009, 09:52 AM
So, you admit the article is dishonest in the title?

Regardless of the leanings or "minor" issues, it is all relevant. Unlike you, I believe the friends, preachers, and other people in a candidate's life form who he/she is.

See Ulysses Grant for example

Jerry Moran isn't friends with Communists, or even associated with them in any way. If you can't see this is a dishonest smear attempt by Tihart, then you need to see about checking the prescription on your ultra-rose shaded glasses.

It sort of says it all that you guys are more concerned with the accuracy of the subject line than the importance of the underlying act.

HonestChieffan
11-24-2009, 10:58 AM
Was he endorsed by the Communist Party?

KCWolfman
11-24-2009, 11:47 AM
Jerry Moran isn't friends with Communists, or even associated with them in any way. If you can't see this is a dishonest smear attempt by Tihart, then you need to see about checking the prescription on your ultra-rose shaded glasses.

It sort of says it all that you guys are more concerned with the accuracy of the subject line than the importance of the underlying act.

I know, it is atrocious that ACCURACY is more important than shock value to me.

The title is not vague, it is flat out false according to the body of information therein.

The title is libelous as it accuses someone of a crime not commited.

banyon
11-24-2009, 12:33 PM
I know, it is atrocious that ACCURACY is more important than shock value to me.

The title is not vague, it is flat out false according to the body of information therein.

The smear attempt is by implication. Your faux naivete regarding the difference between an implicit and explicit attempt is not very compelling.

The title is libelous as it accuses someone of a crime not commited.


What crime?

wild1
11-24-2009, 12:36 PM
Jerry Moran isn't friends with Communists, or even associated with them in any way. If you can't see this is a dishonest smear attempt by Tihart, then you need to see about checking the prescription on your ultra-rose shaded glasses.

It sort of says it all that you guys are more concerned with the accuracy of the subject line than the importance of the underlying act.

I don't see what is dishonest about pointing out that communists applaud someone's position on a particular issue in order to put it in perspective. Particularly if it's the truth.

Maybe this hits close to home, with Castro being just about the only person left vigorously extolling Obama's virtues?

banyon
11-24-2009, 12:39 PM
I don't see what is dishonest about pointing out that communists applaud someone's position on a particular issue in order to put it in perspective. Particularly if it's the truth.

Maybe this hits close to home, with Castro being just about the only person left vigorously extolling Obama's virtues?

It's dishonest because of the subject line of the e-mail. It's also of dubious relevance.

Look, I don't even like Jerry Moran, so if you guys think Tihart is the bee's knees and want to buy whatever horse manure he's peddling, have at it. I am done with this.

HonestChieffan
11-24-2009, 12:52 PM
It is good to know who is being endorsed by organizations you agree with as well as those you dont. Wonder who the communists are behind in Missouri.

wild1
11-24-2009, 12:54 PM
It's dishonest because of the subject line of the e-mail. It's also of dubious relevance.

Look, I don't even like Jerry Moran, so if you guys think Tihart is the bee's knees and want to buy whatever horse manure he's peddling, have at it. I am done with this.

I've never heard of this person, so I don't think anyone is the bee's knees here.

The subject line should have said something slightly different. They made it sound like the communist party endorses him as a candidate, when in reality the communists just agree with his positions and are soliciting their base to rally support to him on this issue.

The subject line should say something like, "Communists publicly applaud Moran's position".

The untruth is in the scope to which the statement is applied, not in the core idea.

KCWolfman
11-24-2009, 01:26 PM
The smear attempt is by implication. Your faux naivete regarding the difference between an implicit and explicit attempt is not very compelling.





Honestly, I don't care about either candidate.

I just think the story would have held more weight had the headline been honest.

KCWolfman
11-24-2009, 01:27 PM
I've never heard of this person, so I don't think anyone is the bee's knees here.

The subject line should have said something slightly different. They made it sound like the communist party endorses him as a candidate, when in reality the communists just agree with his positions and are soliciting their base to rally support to him on this issue.

The subject line should say something like, "Communists publicly applaud Moran's position".

The untruth is in the scope to which the statement is applied, not in the core idea.

Thank you, sir, for repeating my statement prior to my statement being stated.