PDA

View Full Version : U.S. Issues Wake up, America. This is a snapshot of your future..


donkhater
11-22-2009, 10:26 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8367614.stm

Liver cancer drug 'too expensive'
A drug that can prolong the lives of patients with advanced liver cancer has been rejected for use in the NHS in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) said the cost of Nexavar - about 3,000 a month - was "simply too high".

But Macmillan Cancer Support said the decision was "a scandal".

More than 3,000 people are diagnosed with liver cancer every year in the UK and their prognosis is generally poor.

Only about 20% of patients are alive one year after diagnosis, dropping to just 5% after five years.

'Disappointed'

Campaigner Kate Spall, who won the right to have two months of treatment for her mother, Pamela Northcott, in 2007, said it had prolonged her life by four-and-a-half "precious" months.

It had allowed her 58-year-old mother, from Dyserth in Denbighshire, "closure" and "peace", she told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

"The problem in Mum's case is it took a year for me to fight for the treatment, so we'll never know how well she could have done," she said.


"We had extra time, which was very precious to us all, her symptoms were helped greatly. And, more importantly, for Mum it was a case of getting some closure and peace.

"The psychological feeling when a group of people decide that you cannot have a treatment that can help you is really devastating."

Cancer Research UK's chief clinician Peter Johnson said the decision was "enormously frustrating" because there was no doubt about the drug's effectiveness.

He said: "There's no alternative treatment and there are no other places for people to go. It is expensive, but the only issue is cost and the number of patients affected are quite few - there's probably only six or seven hundred patients a year."

Nexavar - also known as sorafenib - had already been rejected in Scotland, despite studies showing it could extend the life of a liver cancer patient by up to six months.

'Devastating disease'

The Scottish Medicines Consortium ruled that "the manufacturer's justification of the treatment's cost in relation to its benefit was not sufficient to gain acceptance".

Andrew Dillon, chief executive of NICE, agreed: "The price being asked by [the manufacturer] Bayer is simply too high to justify using NHS money which could be spent on better value cancer treatments."

And the group's clinical and public health director, Peter Littlejohns, added the drug was considered "just too expensive" by its advisory committees.


Nexavar is routinely offered to cancer patients elsewhere in the world, and Mike Hobday, head of campaigns at Macmillan Cancer Support, said he was "extremely disappointed" at NICE's decision.

"It is a scandal that the only licensed drug proven to significantly prolong the lives of people with this devastating disease has been rejected, leaving them with no treatment options," he said.

Alison Rogers, chief executive of the British Liver Trust, said: "The decision to reject a treatment for advanced liver cancer is a huge blow for patients.

"This is a treatment to extend life for people where all other options have run out.

"It is particularly hard for people with liver cancer given that treatments for many other advanced cancers have been given the green light by NICE.

"People with liver disease often face stigma and discrimination and sadly this decision feels like a further disadvantage to them."

Earlier this year, a government review of end-of-life treatment said NICE should give extra weight to drugs that could extend a patient's life.

The Department of Health said NICE was not ignoring that recommendation, but the NHS could not just pay for any drug at any cost.

Baby Lee
11-23-2009, 06:33 AM
Fuck those liver cancer folks for not having the foresight to set up a proper lobbying structure and proper lines of graft to make certain their interests were given 'proper' attention.

HonestChieffan
11-23-2009, 06:41 AM
But no death panels. Right.

Hydrae
11-23-2009, 06:47 AM
The Department of Health said NICE was not ignoring that recommendation, but the NHS could not just pay for any drug at any cost.

The thinking that a drug that costs thousands of dollars a month should be made available to anyone is one of the things that will bankrupt this whole system. At some point I would have to think the individual would still have to maintain some responsibility for their own expenses. The line has to be drawn somewhere and no matter where it is drawn someone will be left out and be pissed.

donkhater
11-23-2009, 06:51 AM
Actually after some thought, I really don't think this is a picture of the future of health care in America.

There won't be any Pharma companies left to invent life-savings drugs to have this kind of moral hand-wringing.

HonestChieffan
11-23-2009, 06:53 AM
The thinking that a drug that costs thousands of dollars a month should be made available to anyone is one of the things that will bankrupt this whole system. At some point I would have to think the individual would still have to maintain some responsibility for their own expenses. The line has to be drawn somewhere and no matter where it is drawn someone will be left out and be pissed.

Individual responsibility, how quaint an idea.

KC native
11-23-2009, 07:54 AM
JFC, you guys can't even keep your types of healthcare delivery systems straight. How is anyone supposed to take you serious when no one is proposing anything remotely like Britain's socialized medicine?

|Zach|
11-23-2009, 07:58 AM
Actually after some thought, I really don't think this is a picture of the future of health care in America.

There won't be any Pharma companies left to invent life-savings drugs to have this kind of moral hand-wringing.

JFC.

Chief Henry
11-23-2009, 08:52 AM
JFC, you guys can't even keep your types of healthcare delivery systems straight. How is anyone supposed to take you serious when no one is proposing anything remotely like Britain's socialized medicine?

England has a sinlge payer health care system right ?

Thats what Obama has stated that he wants - at somepoint int he future,
so have other politicians.

KC native
11-23-2009, 09:07 AM
England has a sinlge payer health care system right ?

Thats what Obama has stated that he wants - at somepoint int he future,
so have other politicians.

:shake: No, the United Kingdom has socialized health care. The government actually provides the health care.

Donger
11-23-2009, 09:12 AM
:shake: No, the United Kingdom has socialized health care. The government actually provides the health care.

Actually, the UK is both.

wild1
11-23-2009, 09:13 AM
But there won't be any rationing.

Rooster
11-23-2009, 09:16 AM
Individual responsibility, how quaint an idea.

:clap: My thoughts exactly.

Frazod
11-23-2009, 09:26 AM
3000 a month? Why the fuck should anybody have to pay that much? That's criminal.

HonestChieffan
11-23-2009, 09:31 AM
:shake: No, the United Kingdom has socialized health care. The government actually provides the health care.

No, you are wrong. But then....

KC native
11-23-2009, 09:38 AM
No, you are wrong. But then....

I wasn't aware of the private system (thanks donger) but only 8% uses it and it's usually an add on. So you can go fuck yourself.

The National Health Service or NHS is the publicly-funded healthcare system in England (though the term is also used to refer to the four national health services in the UK, collectively). The NHS provides healthcare to anyone normally resident in the United Kingdom with most services free at the point of use for the patient though there are charges associated with eye tests, dental care, prescriptions, and many aspects of personal care. The NHS has agreed a formal constitution which sets out the legal rights and responsibilities of the NHS, its staff, and users of the service and makes additional non-binding pledges regarding many key aspects of its operations.[1]

The NHS provides the majority of healthcare in England, including primary care, in-patient care, long-term healthcare, ophthalmology and dentistry. The National Health Service Act 1946 came into effect on 5 July 1948. Private health care has continued parallel to the NHS, paid for largely by private insurance: it is used by about 8% of the population, generally as an add-on to NHS services. In the first decade of the 21st century the private sector started to be increasingly used by the NHS to increase capacity. According to the BMA a large proportion of the public opposed this move.[2].

The NHS is largely funded from general taxation (including a proportion from National Insurance payments)[3]. The UK government department responsible for the NHS is the Department of Health, headed by the Secretary of State for Health. Most of the expenditure of The Department of Health (98.7 billion in 2008-9[4]) is spent on the NHS.

HonestChieffan
11-23-2009, 09:43 AM
If i could **** myself you would still be wrong.

Donger
11-23-2009, 09:44 AM
I wasn't aware of the private system (thanks donger) but only 8% uses it and it's usually an add on. So you can go **** yourself.

I wonder why anyone would need additional, private insurance in the UK? Any idea why?

KC native
11-23-2009, 09:47 AM
I wonder why anyone would need additional, private insurance in the UK? Any idea why?

Because their system sucks. You can go back and read my posts on this and see that I've never advocated NHS's model (nor can I think of anyone on CP who has extolled their virtues).

Donger
11-23-2009, 09:48 AM
Because their system sucks. You can go back and read my posts on this and see that I've never advocated NHS's model (nor can I think of anyone on CP who has extolled their virtues).

Why does it suck?

KC native
11-23-2009, 09:49 AM
Why does it suck?

Inefficient and costly. The French and Swiss do a much better job than your countrymen.

Donger
11-23-2009, 09:54 AM
Inefficient and costly. The French and Swiss do a much better job than your countrymen.

I thought that the French system has been in the red since the mid-1980s.

Donger
11-23-2009, 09:56 AM
Heh. Just looked it up. 90% of the French also have private, supplemental insurance. If theirs is so great (compared to the UK's), why do even more of the French have private insurance?

KC native
11-23-2009, 10:12 AM
Heh. Just looked it up. 90% of the French also have private, supplemental insurance. If theirs is so great (compared to the UK's), why do even more of the French have private insurance?

:shake: I'm not doing your homework for you. You're a big boy and can go do the reading for yourself but long story short, France spends way less than the US (but don't spend the least overall) and delivers better care. All of this crap has been debated ad nausem out here and I don't have the time to spoon feed you the case for a French model or Swiss model of healthcare delivery today.

Donger
11-23-2009, 10:22 AM
:shake: I'm not doing your homework for you. You're a big boy and can go do the reading for yourself but long story short, France spends way less than the US (but don't spend the least overall) and delivers better care. All of this crap has been debated ad nausem out here and I don't have the time to spoon feed you the case for a French model or Swiss model of healthcare delivery today.

Well, honestly, it doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about, anyway. Have you considered the possibility that they spent less per capita because they are operating in the red and have been for years?

HonestChieffan
11-23-2009, 10:24 AM
Im sure all the illegals and refugees from all over who live in GB and France love the free care they get. Just as all ours will if this garbage passes. Those who dont pay a dime always support free stuff paid for by anyone else. Next they will demand the cafeterrias in hospitals serve enchilladas free as well.

KC native
11-23-2009, 10:25 AM
Well, honestly, it doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about, anyway. Have you considered the possibility that they spent less per capita because they are operating in the red and have been for years?

Like I said, I'm not spoon feeding you today.

Hydrae
11-23-2009, 10:27 AM
I wasn't aware of the private system (thanks donger) but only 8% uses it and it's usually an add on. So you can go **** yourself.

I don't know where you quoted information is from, you did not link to it I also find it interesting that you did not include this piece in your bolding:

In the first decade of the 21st century the private sector started to be increasingly used by the NHS to increase capacity. According to the BMA a large proportion of the public opposed this move.

Any thoughts on how we ensure this kind of move doesn't happen here? This is precisely the kind of thing that concerns most Americans.

KC native
11-23-2009, 10:28 AM
I don't know where you quoted information is from, you did not link to it I also find it interesting that you did not include this piece in your bolding:



Any thoughts on how we ensure this kind of move doesn't happen here? This is precisely the kind of thing that concerns most Americans.

:shake: So, you care to point out where anyone has proposed moving to a NHS type system? Because I sure haven't and can't think of anyone here or in our government who has.

Donger
11-23-2009, 10:30 AM
Like I said, I'm not spoon feeding you today.

Good, because it's becoming clear that you don't know much about other country's health care systems.

KC native
11-23-2009, 10:31 AM
Good, because it's becoming clear that you don't know much about other country's health care systems.

:rolleyes: No, it's that I already have one child that I take care of. I don't need another one.

Hydrae
11-23-2009, 10:32 AM
:shake: So, you care to point out where anyone has proposed moving to a NHS type system? Because I sure haven't and can't think of anyone here or in our government who has.

I have yet to see a bureaucracy that did not expand over time. You want to put in words here that within the next decade this bill is not expanded to the point that it has basically taken over and become an NHS type system? At the least if this thing passes it allows the government a serious toe in the door. I am confident that they will not be satisfied with just a toe.

Donger
11-23-2009, 10:35 AM
Heh. French doctors also pay a minuscule malpractice premium compared to their US counterparts. We have can't have that, can we?

Donger
11-23-2009, 10:37 AM
More education for kcnative:

In 1990, 7% of health-care expenditures were financed out of general revenue taxes, and the rest came from mandatory payroll taxes. By 2003, the general revenue figure had grown to 40%, and it's still not enough. The French national insurance system has been running constant deficits since 1985 and has ballooned to $13.5 billion.

KC native
11-23-2009, 10:46 AM
More education for kcnative:

In 1990, 7% of health-care expenditures were financed out of general revenue taxes, and the rest came from mandatory payroll taxes. By 2003, the general revenue figure had grown to 40%, and it's still not enough. The French national insurance system has been running constant deficits since 1985 and has ballooned to $13.5 billion.

Whilst you're on your little crusade, did you consider that I didn't advocate their funding model but rather their delivery and payment methods? Also, did you take the time to consider that eventhough the French model is superior to ours that I'm not advocating a carbon copy?

Carry on now though. Wouldn't want nuance to get in the way of your black and white world view.

Donger
11-23-2009, 10:50 AM
Whilst you're on your little crusade, did you consider that I didn't advocate their funding model but rather their delivery and payment methods? Also, did you take the time to consider that eventhough the French model is superior to ours that I'm not advocating a carbon copy?

Carry on now though. Wouldn't want nuance to get in the way of your black and white world view.

What's wrong with their funding model?

Otter
11-23-2009, 01:09 PM
:shake: I'm not doing your homework for you. You're a big boy and can go do the reading for yourself but long story short, France spends way less than the US (but don't spend the least overall) and delivers better care. All of this crap has been debated ad nausem out here and I don't have the time to spoon feed you the case for a French model or Swiss model of healthcare delivery today.

Ah, the blanket KC Native response. I'll translate - 'I'm saying it's true but I won't and can't prove it and that's your fault'.

Still waiting for you to show me those threats I made at you you lying sack of shit.

BucEyedPea
11-23-2009, 04:47 PM
Heh. French doctors also pay a minuscule malpractice premium compared to their US counterparts. We have can't have that, can we?

Their educations are subsidized.