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donkhater
11-23-2009, 09:13 PM
One thing about this whole health care reform mess that I just don't get is the desire by both houses of Congress to write massive 2000 page bills. Why not address each idea with it's own piece of legislation so that the public (and apparently the representatives) know what exactly is in there? Why muddle the debate? It certainly makes it appear that the respective authors are up to shenanigans.

Item #1: Competition among providers

Since there are already 1300 health insurance providers in this country, one would think that there is already plenty of competition. But with government regulations (surprise, surprise) limiting the ability of it's citizens to purchase across statelines, mandating coverage for certain diseases/ailments and requiring employers to provide insurance to its employees (thus watering down competition), there really isn't competition at all among providers.

Solution: Eliminate employee-provided policies. Allow each citizen to purchase a policy catered to their needs. Group policies can be offered for those that have similar insurance needs, lowering processing costs.

No state mandates on coverage or restrictions for purchasing policies across state lines.

Create medical savings plans that are tax free. Money can only be used for medical costs (deductibles, premiums, prescriptions, costs not covered by your plan).

Item #2: Unnecessary tests/defensive medicine

Solution: Easy. Pass some tort reform capping rewards for pain and suffering. Legitimate damages should be awarded for those whose livelyhood is affected adversely, but beyond that....nothing. These types of jackpot damages are said to penalize the physican, but barring the physican from practicing medicine (through the determination of a medical board) is the best way to accomplish that. If the act is truly criminal, then criminal charges should be filed. Jackpots damages serve no cause. They don't undo the done.

You may think that much more needs to be done to our health system. Fine. Propose away. But propose each idea with their own separate bill that details the changes being suggested. Enough with the cloak and dagger stuff.

Why not make these small changes (or some form thereof) and see what transpires? DELIBERATLY address each issue with it's own bill. We may be surprised by what unleashing the power of the invisible hand of the market will do for health care costs. And the best part?

It would hardly cost a thing.

Norman Einstein
11-23-2009, 10:02 PM
One thing about this whole health care reform mess that I just don't get is the desire by both houses of Congress to write massive 2000 page bills. Why not address each idea with it's own piece of legislation so that the public (and apparently the representatives) know what exactly is in there? Why muddle the debate? It certainly makes it appear that the respective authors are up to shenanigans.

Item #1: Competition among providers

Since there are already 1300 health insurance providers in this country, one would think that there is already plenty of competition. But with government regulations (surprise, surprise) limiting the ability of it's citizens to purchase across statelines, mandating coverage for certain diseases/ailments and requiring employers to provide insurance to its employees (thus watering down competition), there really isn't competition at all among providers.

Solution: Eliminate employee-provided policies. Allow each citizen to purchase a policy catered to their needs. Group policies can be offered for those that have similar insurance needs, lowering processing costs.

No state mandates on coverage or restrictions for purchasing policies across state lines.

Create medical savings plans that are tax free. Money can only be used for medical costs (deductibles, premiums, prescriptions, costs not covered by your plan).

Item #2: Unnecessary tests/defensive medicine

Solution: Easy. Pass some tort reform capping rewards for pain and suffering. Legitimate damages should be awarded for those whose livelyhood is affected adversely, but beyond that....nothing. These types of jackpot damages are said to penalize the physican, but barring the physican from practicing medicine (through the determination of a medical board) is the best way to accomplish that. If the act is truly criminal, then criminal charges should be filed. Jackpots damages serve no cause. They don't undo the done.

You may think that much more needs to be done to our health system. Fine. Propose away. But propose each idea with their own separate bill that details the changes being suggested. Enough with the cloak and dagger stuff.

Why not make these small changes (or some form thereof) and see what transpires? DELIBERATLY address each issue with it's own bill. We may be surprised by what unleashing the power of the invisible hand of the market will do for health care costs. And the best part?

It would hardly cost a thing.

Good points, but untenable because the democrats want to run your healthcare, they don't really give a shit about anyone. It's a power and control issue.

Chiefshrink
11-23-2009, 10:40 PM
The Repubs really messed up by the letting the Dems brand this as Health "CARE" Reform. When in reality it is "NOT" the "CARE" that is broke and what the majority of Americans are concerned about but it is the "COST" that is broke and what the majority of Americans "ARE" concerned about.

If Repubs in the beginning of this debate would have refused to call this a "HealthCARE debate and instead re-branding it what it really is "HealthCOST reform" then I believe they would have had a much better chance of defeating this "Marxist bill" that will be passed.

Mr. Kotter
11-24-2009, 12:01 AM
The Repubs really messed up by the letting the Dems brand this as Health "CARE" Reform. When in reality it is "NOT" the "CARE" that is broke and what the majority of Americans are concerned about but it is the "COST" that is broke and what the majority of Americans "ARE" concerned about.

If Repubs in the beginning of this debate would have refused to call this a "HealthCARE debate and instead re-branding it what it really is "HealthCOST reform" then I believe they would have had a much better chance of defeating this "Marxist bill" that will be passed.

Is that Limbaugh or Hannity spooge drippin' down onto your chin??? :spock:

Course it could be patty or Donger spooge as well.... :hmmm:

NTTAWWT, of course....just sayin'.

HonestChieffan
11-24-2009, 06:13 AM
If this was about Health, Care, Helath Care, Cost, Health Cost, or anything remotely so related, then your points would be very valid and appropriate. Its about control.

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donkhater
11-24-2009, 08:06 AM
If this was about Health, Care, Helath Care, Cost, Health Cost, or anything remotely so related, then your points would be very valid and appropriate. Its about control.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hfLXjsvmjZo&rel=0&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b&hl=en_GB&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hfLXjsvmjZo&rel=0&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b&hl=en_GB&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Funny.

The most important point in that whole video...

Government gets to make the laws. Who regulates them when they get out of line? How is changing the rules of the game to put the public option in a good light (and you KNOW they will) competition?

Who polices the police?

KCWolfman
11-24-2009, 08:07 AM
You realize no matter what alternatives are offered, the neocomms in office will blatantly lie and state no alternatives are being offered.

KCWolfman
11-24-2009, 08:08 AM
Is that Limbaugh or Hannity spooge drippin' down onto your chin??? :spock:

Course it could be patty or Donger spooge as well.... :hmmm:

NTTAWWT, of course....just sayin'.

What isn't factual about his statement? He is accurate although colorful.

I see more focus on supposed cost than care in this bill.

donkhater
11-24-2009, 08:09 AM
Mostly the point I was trying to make is to take those ideas that both sides of the ailes seem to agree with. Write legislation, debate it, vote on it and see the effect. Costs didn't spiral out of control overnight. I doubt we'll correct it overnight as well.

Small, focused bills directed at obvious cost sinks should be very do-able.

donkhater
11-28-2009, 10:02 PM
Wow. Even Charles Krauthammer reads the planet....

http://townhall.com/columnists/CharlesKrauthammer/2009/11/27/kill_the_bills_do_health_reform_right

RINGLEADER
11-29-2009, 11:56 AM
Good points, but untenable because the democrats want to run your healthcare, they don't really give a shit about anyone. It's a power and control issue.

This.

The Health Care fiasco has nothing to do with your health or care.

Once the government has control over what doctors are paid for the care they deliver they control what kinds of care will be available and they control what kinds of care you can receive.

That's all this bill is about. Control.

Donger
11-29-2009, 11:59 AM
Is that Limbaugh or Hannity spooge drippin' down onto your chin??? :spock:

Course it could be patty or Donger spooge as well.... :hmmm:

NTTAWWT, of course....just sayin'.

:spock:

Are you going to dispute what he wrote?

RINGLEADER
11-29-2009, 12:10 PM
The Repubs really messed up by the letting the Dems brand this as Health "CARE" Reform. When in reality it is "NOT" the "CARE" that is broke and what the majority of Americans are concerned about but it is the "COST" that is broke and what the majority of Americans "ARE" concerned about.

If Repubs in the beginning of this debate would have refused to call this a "HealthCARE debate and instead re-branding it what it really is "HealthCOST reform" then I believe they would have had a much better chance of defeating this "Marxist bill" that will be passed.


That's one of the problems with "triggers" and other gimmicks being peddled to gain votes. As the CBO is now estimating the government option contained in the bills is actually less effective than the private market at controlling costs. So while Olympia Snowe and Evan Bahy may say they'd favor the public option in the even that insurers don't restrict the growth of health care costs, there is no evidence that the government option contained in the current bills would be more effective at reducing those costs. In fact, quite the opposite is true.