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View Full Version : Economics BRC says this is how we should create jobs. Tax incentives for businesses to hire


BigRedChief
11-29-2009, 10:28 AM
I'm not an economist. I've freely admitted on many occasion my economic knowledge and how it all fits together is lacking. But, that being said.....

Why not give tax incentives/breaks to employers that hire new full time employees?

I wasn't needing a new car. I had an old car with 135K miles on it but it was working fine. All of a sudden I can get $4,500 off the initial price and then take the $2,700 sales tax off my federal tax motivated me to act. Using that analogy.......

Surely there are businesses with plans to expand, hire new people but are holding back waiting on the economy to recover. Maybe tax incentives/tax breaks would help push them to pull the trigger and hire new full time employeees?

Am I FOS or on the right track? No poll will be forthcoming.

Saul Good
11-29-2009, 12:13 PM
I'm not an economist. I've freely admitted on many occasion my economic knowledge and how it all fits together is lacking. But, that being said.....

Why not give tax incentives/breaks to employers that hire new full time employees?

I wasn't needing a new car. I had an old car with 135K miles on it but it was working fine. All of a sudden I can get $4,500 off the initial price and then take the $2,700 sales tax off my federal tax motivated me to act. Using that analogy.......

Surely there are businesses with plans to expand, hire new people but are holding back waiting on the economy to recover. Maybe tax incentives/tax breaks would help push them to pull the trigger and hire new full time employeees?

Am I FOS or on the right track? No poll will be forthcoming.

I've heard several conservative pundits suggest doing away with the payroll tax for employers who hire new employees.

The way you're going, I fully expect to see you demand Obama's birth certificate in about a month.

BigRedChief
11-29-2009, 12:50 PM
I've heard several conservative pundits suggest doing away with the payroll tax for employers who hire new employees.

The way you're going, I fully expect to see you demand Obama's birth certificate in about a month.I'm still against any tax breaks to business's that may create new jobs. Create a job first, then we will give you a tax break. Too many times in the past the Republican tax breaks followed the trickle down economic model. Screw that. We are not going to give our hard earned tax money to business's in hope of job creation. Thats back azz ward. Create the job, get a tax break.

RedNeckRaider
11-29-2009, 01:00 PM
I'm still against any tax breaks to business's that may create new jobs. Create a job first, then we will give you a tax break. Too many times in the past the Republican tax breaks followed the trickle down economic model. Screw that. We are not going to give our hard earned tax money to business's in hope of job creation. Thats back azz ward. Create the job, get a tax break.

We have spent our tax dollars much more un wisely here lately. If fact our government has shown a total disregard for wise investments with our tax dollars. And the jobs saved and created by those foolish investments are as embarrassing as they are alarming~

KC native
11-29-2009, 01:13 PM
I'm still against any tax breaks to business's that may create new jobs. Create a job first, then we will give you a tax break. Too many times in the past the Republican tax breaks followed the trickle down economic model. Screw that. We are not going to give our hard earned tax money to business's in hope of job creation. Thats back azz ward. Create the job, get a tax break.

The problem is that if businesses are waiting for a recovery they still aren't going to hire anyone if the tax break is after the fact (nor will they do it if they are given a supply side cut either). Taxes are usually (and should be last) on the decision making tree for a business. If taxes are that big of an impediment then it's time to choose a new business with a higher profit margin.

KC native
11-29-2009, 01:13 PM
We have spent our tax dollars much more un wisely here lately. If fact our government has shown a total disregard for wise investments with our tax dollars. And the jobs saved and created by those foolish investments are as embarrassing as they are alarming~

:spock: Lately? So all those tax breaks for the wealthy which got us nowhere were wise? And the spending for a completely discretionary and unnecessary Iraq war was wise too?

Donger
11-29-2009, 01:18 PM
I'm not an economist. I've freely admitted on many occasion my economic knowledge and how it all fits together is lacking. But, that being said.....

Why not give tax incentives/breaks to employers that hire new full time employees?

I wasn't needing a new car. I had an old car with 135K miles on it but it was working fine. All of a sudden I can get $4,500 off the initial price and then take the $2,700 sales tax off my federal tax motivated me to act. Using that analogy.......

Surely there are businesses with plans to expand, hire new people but are holding back waiting on the economy to recover. Maybe tax incentives/tax breaks would help push them to pull the trigger and hire new full time employeees?

Am I FOS or on the right track? No poll will be forthcoming.

Unless teh tax break offsets the cost of a new employee (less whatever that employee would generate in revenue), I don't see why any company would do so.

Here's an idea: just leave business alone, government.

Donger
11-29-2009, 01:19 PM
:spock: Lately? So all those tax breaks for the wealthy which got us nowhere were wise? And the spending for a completely discretionary and unnecessary Iraq war was wise too?

You don't think that the wealthy pay enough taxes?

KC native
11-29-2009, 01:23 PM
You don't think that the wealthy pay enough taxes?

Nope. We've covered this before and I'm not going to waste an hour of my time today arguing it with you again.

RedNeckRaider
11-29-2009, 01:25 PM
:spock: Lately? So all those tax breaks for the wealthy which got us nowhere were wise? And the spending for a completely discretionary and unnecessary Iraq war was wise too?

I stated 'more un wisely' and to defend the mass balloon loan false recovery is laughable. We are printing money at a rate unfathomable and the results are failed at best. Playing the Bush was worse or the republicans are worse card is poor form or an admission that you are oblivious to the catastrophe we are witnessing~

BigRedChief
11-29-2009, 01:25 PM
Unless teh tax break offsets the cost of a new employee (less whatever that employee would generate in revenue), I don't see why any company would do so.

Here's an idea: just leave business alone, government.huh? So your idea is to have the federal government pay for the employees of a private company? But, the private company keeps the profits? It's an incentivve, not a grant of free money.

Now, you can say tax breaks or incentives won't work. Thats fine and dandy.

Donger
11-29-2009, 01:27 PM
huh? So your idea is to have the federal government pay for the employees of a private company? But, the private company keeps the profits? It's an incentivve, not a grant of free money.

Now, you can say tax breaks or incentives won't work. Thats fine and dandy.

No, I'm saying that I'd like to see businesses take care of themselves without the government getting involved.

Brock
11-29-2009, 01:27 PM
Unless teh tax break offsets the cost of a new employee (less whatever that employee would generate in revenue), I don't see why any company would do so.

Here's an idea: just leave business alone, government.

Sure, except when you need some fighter planes and bombers built, then don't leave them alone, give them three times what it should cost.

Donger
11-29-2009, 01:28 PM
Nope. We've covered this before and I'm not going to waste an hour of my time today arguing it with you again.

Sorry, but I don't recall ever having that discussion with you.

BigRedChief
11-29-2009, 01:28 PM
No, I'm saying that I'd like to see businesses take care of themselves without the government getting involved.Fair enough.

KC native
11-29-2009, 01:32 PM
I stated 'more un wisely' and to defend the mass balloon loan false recovery is laughable. We are printing money at a rate unfathomable and the results are failed at best. Playing the Bush was worse or the republicans are worse card is poor form or an admission that you are oblivious to the catastrophe we are witnessing~

:spock: Have you been paying attention? Anytime anyone has posted "positive" economic news I've thrown cold water on it and explained why eventhough it was being framed as a positive it was still a bad data point.

BTW what is a mass balloon loan false recovery? Are you going to the BEP school of economic misthought?

RedNeckRaider
11-29-2009, 01:50 PM
:spock: Have you been paying attention? Anytime anyone has posted "positive" economic news I've thrown cold water on it and explained why eventhough it was being framed as a positive it was still a bad data point.

BTW what is a mass balloon loan false recovery? Are you going to the BEP school of economic misthought?

I have no idea what a BEP school is. That said when you try and rebuild an economy with borrowed money and provide bailouts it can be described as a balloon loan. And the recovery is false as the only thing that has stabilized is those who have a government bailout back up. Call it what you will I call it a balloon loan false recovery and the payment will come soon~

BigRedChief
11-30-2009, 07:47 AM
I have no idea what a BEP school is. That said when you try and rebuild an economy with borrowed money and provide bailouts it can be described as a balloon loan. And the recovery is false as the only thing that has stabilized is those who have a government bailout back up. Call it what you will I call it a balloon loan false recovery and the payment will come soon~But, you were in favor of the $1.1 trillion Bush tax cuts were you not? They were done with borrowed money and the Republicans used budget reconciliation to force them through the congress.

KC native
11-30-2009, 08:31 AM
I have no idea what a BEP school is. That said when you try and rebuild an economy with borrowed money and provide bailouts it can be described as a balloon loan. And the recovery is false as the only thing that has stabilized is those who have a government bailout back up. Call it what you will I call it a balloon loan false recovery and the payment will come soon~

BEP was a dig at BucEyedPea.

Beyond that, when is this payment due on this "balloon loan"? Also, what recovery are you talking about because as of now nothing has really recovered beyond the stock market and that's due to the ginormous carry trade with the US dollar?

RedNeckRaider
11-30-2009, 12:32 PM
BEP was a dig at BucEyedPea.

Beyond that, when is this payment due on this "balloon loan"? Also, what recovery are you talking about because as of now nothing has really recovered beyond the stock market and that's due to the ginormous carry trade with the US dollar?

It is overdue and will be paid by us like always in various tax increases. At least we can agree there is no recovery.

RedNeckRaider
11-30-2009, 12:40 PM
But, you were in favor of the $1.1 trillion Bush tax cuts were you not? They were done with borrowed money and the Republicans used budget reconciliation to force them through the congress.

BRC you are better than the Bush did it also or was worse reply. I stated more un wisely and you quoted the next post which was a reply leaving that out. You are also trying to protay me as a rightwinger towing the rightwing company line.

BigRedChief
11-30-2009, 12:56 PM
BRC you are better than the Bush did it also or was worse reply. I stated more un wisely and you quoted the next post which was a reply leaving that out. You are also trying to protay me as a rightwinger towing the rightwing company line.You are not a toe the line Republican. But you lean that way.:rolleyes:

And in general, Republicans bitching about something that Obama is doing when Republicans in the past have done the same thing is a valid point of argument.

HonestChieffan
11-30-2009, 01:59 PM
I'm not an economist. I've freely admitted on many occasion my economic knowledge and how it all fits together is lacking. But, that being said.....

Why not give tax incentives/breaks to employers that hire new full time employees?

I wasn't needing a new car. I had an old car with 135K miles on it but it was working fine. All of a sudden I can get $4,500 off the initial price and then take the $2,700 sales tax off my federal tax motivated me to act. Using that analogy.......

Surely there are businesses with plans to expand, hire new people but are holding back waiting on the economy to recover. Maybe tax incentives/tax breaks would help push them to pull the trigger and hire new full time employeees?

Am I FOS or on the right track? No poll will be forthcoming.

Just cut the taxes. We know that works. For every dollar the government takes in then sends back, they keep about 40 cents for administration so you don't get the full value on what you pay.

BigRedChief
11-30-2009, 02:08 PM
Just cut the taxes. We know that works. You say that like its accepted fact, it is not fact. If its a fact why didn't George W.'s $1.1 trillion tax cuts work?

KC native
11-30-2009, 02:12 PM
You say that like its accepted fact, it is not fact. If its a fact why didn't George W.'s $1.1 trillion tax cuts work?

Details don't matter to disHonest. He doesn't understand them so he doesn't let them get in his way of his rhetoric.

ROYC75
11-30-2009, 02:48 PM
But ,But, But, the money Obo promised was to stimulate the economy and produce jobs. HOPE,CHANGE, ? Should we fail to believe in our POTUS promise ?

1st it was HOPE to CHANGE, now we see we need a CHANGE for HOPE.

The bailouts went to the banks, autos,wall street, and people on unemployment. Of which a part was to stimulate the economy and create jobs, but the jobs to not really kick in until spring of 2010, according to many construction firms I work with.

The money was really mismanaged by the administration and the reason we see no growth on new jobs.

Again, you can't spend your way out of a recession without paying for it for several ( 20 - 100 ) years. But this is what we are doing. Too much BIG GOVERNMENT.

ROYC75
11-30-2009, 03:13 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/30/democrats-run-doubts-benefits-second-stimulus/?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a16:g2:r2:c0.080268:b29117666:z10

Need I say anymore ?

Democrats Run Into Doubts About Benefits of Second Stimulus



Democrats in Congress, knowing that the best way to keep their jobs may be to create some for others, are turning their focus toward another federal stimulus package. But they're running into doubts about whether more of the same can do any good.

While the Obama administration is addressing jobs creation with a special forum on Thursday -- a day before the government releases November jobless numbers -- it is trying to stress deficit reduction and is avoiding making any more spending commitments. And Sen. Carl Levin, a powerful Democrat from hard-hit Michigan, said Sunday that he doesn't see "a lot of evidence" that another stimulus would succeed.

The downbeat assessments come as doubts are increasingly raised about the impact of the first $787 billion stimulus in February. The nation's unemployment rate hit 10.2 percent in October, and it remains high even in states where the administration says the stimulus has saved or created the most jobs. In California, for instance, the administration says the package saved or created more than 110,000 jobs, but unemployment in the state is at 12.2 percent.

Critics say part of the problem is that the money is being used to keep government workers at the state level from being laid off, a move that saves jobs but does not necessarily spur economic growth. Other jobs, like those created through infrastructure spending, represent short-term employment gains. Such jobs would need constant infusions of public money to be sustained.

"The only jobs we're creating are government jobs. This nonsense about we're creating and saving jobs -- they're non-existent," former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee said on "Fox News Sunday." "This has been the biggest scam and waste of taxpayer money."

But some prominent Democrats are building the case for another stimulus, even if they won't call it a "stimulus" by name. They want extensions in unemployment benefits, tax incentives, more construction spending and other measures -- though more than two-thirds of the first stimulus hasn't been spent yet.

Former Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean bluntly explained that the upcoming 2010 midterm congressional elections are a driving force behind Democrats' support for more jobs legislation.

"I think we're going to have a tough election in 2010 unless we can start dealing with ... the job situation," he said on "Fox News Sunday."

Dean said the February stimulus has been "unbelievably successful" in saving the jobs of government workers like teachers and police officers, but he said jobs remain "the biggest concern" and warned about the eventual drop-off in spending from the economic recovery package.

Liberal Democrats want to keep the spending coming, even if it means continuing to drill into the deficit -- which hit $1.4 trillion this past fiscal year.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said on a conference call last Tuesday that Americans could "absorb" the hit to the federal budget, and she argued that their biggest complaint is not that the deficit is big -- it's that they're not seeing any benefit in return for increasing the U.S. debt load.

"The American people have an anger about the growth of the deficit because they're not getting anything for it. ... If somebody has the idea that the percentage of GDP of what our national debt is will go up a bit, but they will now -- and their neighbors and their children -- will have jobs, I think they could absorb that, and then we ride it out and bring money in," she said. "But I think if anybody is asking the public, 'Would you rather have a job or the percentage of GDP of our national debt would go up a little bit?' I think that everybody wants a job."

Most people want a job, but not everybody thinks a second stimulus is their ticket to gainful employment.

Levin said he'd be all for another stimulus if it would work. "But I don't think there's a lot of evidence that it would succeed," he said on CBS' "Face the Nation."

Levin said a better idea would be to take leftover money from the $700 billion Wall Street bailout fund and direct it toward stimulus-style projects.

Democrats could face more doubts about their jobs-creating measures on Friday, when the government releases jobless figures for November. The day before, the administration plans to stress its interest in jobs creation with a jobs forum at the White House.

But, for now, the administration is taking a different approach from some congressional Democrats, placing emphasis on the private sector in the quest to spur job creation.

The White House used its blog Monday morning to encourage "community job forums" across the country over the next two weeks -- for those who can't attend the Thursday forum in Washington.

"These discussions, among neighbors, co-workers and friends, will be a source of insights and ideas that will inform the president's approach to job creation," the blog said, claiming the "feedback" will be compiled into a presidential report.

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said Monday that the president doesn't believe all wisdom on jobs creation "resides in Washington."