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HonestChieffan
12-02-2009, 06:49 AM
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BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 07:38 AM
Krauthammer is a murdering pos.

HonestChieffan
12-02-2009, 07:45 AM
Krauthammer is a murdering pos.

hyperbole

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 07:49 AM
hyperbole
No my true opinion of this sleaze who gleefully posted that we're an empire now.

wild1
12-02-2009, 07:50 AM
Krauthammer is a murdering pos.

I didn't know, whom did he kill...?

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 08:04 AM
I didn't know, whom did he kill...?

He was one of the biggest agitators for invading Iraq resulting in the killing of over 100,000 innocent Iraqis, many of them women and children. He's just as guilty....more so since he helped build the case for it. And you condone it....so you have a hand in it too.

HonestChieffan
12-02-2009, 08:05 AM
No my true opinion of this sleaze who gleefully posted that we're an empire now.

hyperbole nonetheless.

He has an amzing life story even if you dont agree with his views.

Krauthammer was born on March 13, 1950 in New York City.[3][4] He was raised in Montreal, Canada where he attended Herzliah High School and McGill University and obtained an honors degree in political science and economics in 1970. From 1970 to 1971, he was a Commonwealth Scholar in politics at Balliol College, Oxford. He later moved to the United States, where he attended Harvard Medical School. Suffering a paralyzing diving accident in his first year of medical school,[5] he was hospitalized for a year, during which time he continued his medical studies.[6] He graduated with his class, earning an M.D. from Harvard Medical School in 1975, and then began working as a psychiatrist at Massachusetts General Hospital. In October 1984, he became board certified in psychiatry by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology.[7]

From 1975–1978, Krauthammer was a Resident and then a Chief Resident in Psychiatry at the Massachusetts General Hospital. During this time he and a colleague identified a form of mania resulting from a concomitant medical illness, rather than a primary inherent disorder, which they named "secondary mania"[8] and published a second important paper on the epidemiology of manic illness.[9] The standard textbook for bipolar disease (Manic Depressive Illness by Goodwin and Jamison)[10] contains twelve references to his work.

In 1978, Krauthammer quit medical practice to direct planning in psychiatric research for the Jimmy Carter administration, and began contributing to The New Republic magazine. During the presidential campaign of 1980, Krauthammer served as a speech writer to Vice President Walter Mondale.

In January 1981, Krauthammer began his journalistic career, joining The New Republic as a writer and editor. His New Republic writings won the 1984 "National Magazine Award for Essays and Criticism." In 1983, he began writing essays for Time magazine. In 1985, he began a weekly column for the Washington Post for which he won the 1987 Pulitzer Prize for commentary.

In 2006, the Financial Times named Krauthammer the most influential commentator in America,[11] saying “Krauthammer has influenced US foreign policy for more than two decades. He coined and developed 'The Reagan Doctrine' in 1985 and he defined the US role as sole superpower in his essay, 'The Unipolar Moment', published shortly after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Krauthammer’s 2004 speech 'Democratic Realism', which was delivered to the American Enterprise Institute when Krauthammer won the Irving Kristol Award, set out a framework for tackling the post 9/11 world, focusing on the promotion of democracy in the Middle East.”

In 2009, writes Politico, "Krauthammer has emerged in the Age of Obama as a central conservative voice, the kind of leader of the opposition that economist and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman represented for the left during the Bush years: a coherent, sophisticated and implacable critic of the new president. “ New York Times columnist David Brooks says that today "he's the most important conservative columnist.”[12]

Apart from the Pulitzer Prize and the National Magazine Award for Essays and Criticism, Krauthammer has received innumerable awards, including the People for the American Way's First Amendment Award, the Champion/Tuck Award for Economic Understanding, the first annual ($250,000) Bradley Prize, and the Eric Breindel Award for Excellence in Opinion Journalism,[13] an annual award given by the Eric Breindel Foundation.

On July 6, 2009, former MSNBC television personality Dan Abrams launched a website service, Mediaite, reporting on media figures. The site ranks all print and online columnists in America by influence. Krauthammer ranks, as of August 2009, in between Christopher Hitchens and David Pogue as number eight

wild1
12-02-2009, 08:05 AM
He was one of the biggest agitators for invading Iraq resulting in the killing of over 100,000 innocent Iraqis, many of them women and children. He's just as guilty....more so since he helped build the case for it. And you condone it....so you have a hand in it too.

I'm guilty of 100,000 deaths? What do you think should be done to me?

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 08:07 AM
Oh, and I forgot, he's a rank liar. Why would anyone use his articles for back up....I thought the leading NeoCons had been discredited?
And he IS NOT a conservative. He's a NeoCon....that's a liberal hawk.

You guys realize you're out of power due to this think right? You're views are well under the majority views on FP.

Polls show Americans are not just sick and tired of Iraq but also Afghanistan.

HonestChieffan
12-02-2009, 08:12 AM
Whew, look who got up in a bit of a snit this morning.


Maybe a bit of good music will help

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wild1
12-02-2009, 08:18 AM
Oh, and I forgot, he's a rank liar. Why would anyone use his articles for back up....I thought the leading NeoCons had been discredited?
And he IS NOT a conservative. He's a NeoCon....that's a liberal hawk.

You guys realize you're out of power due to this think right? You're views are well under the majority views on FP.

Polls show Americans are not just sick and tired of Iraq but also Afghanistan.

Where did the polls show those issues rank in importance in the last election?

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 08:20 AM
I posted it in an earlier thread.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 08:22 AM
Whew, look who got up in a bit of a snit this morning.

LMAO No not really. I just hate this guy....I hate all the leading NeoCons in DC including mass murderer Bill Kristol who btw loves Obama. They are a thoroughly discredited source of information to most rational people.

wild1
12-02-2009, 08:26 AM
I remember exit polling showing the economy was the most important issue for 50-60% of voters, leaving only 40% or so for all other issues. You'll have to forgive me for being skeptical.

You neglected to mention what you think should be the penalty for me aiding and abetting 100,000 deaths, as you feel I have done.

HonestChieffan
12-02-2009, 08:27 AM
Guess music did not calm the savage beast this morning. I may have to listen to Christmas music today.

Yesterday I heard two very disturbing things on the radio. One was James Brown doing a Christmas song. The other was a cut of Bob Dylans Chistmas thing.

This is disturbing on a deeper level.

HonestChieffan
12-02-2009, 08:29 AM
I remember exit polling showing the economy was the most important issue for 50-60% of voters, leaving only 40% or so for all other issues. You'll have to forgive me for being skeptical.

You neglected to mention what you think should be the penalty for me aiding and abetting 100,000 deaths, as you feel I have done.

If you are guilty? Well, maybe you would have to listen to Dylan do Christmas music for a couple hours with Feliz Navidad playing extra loud in the background.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 08:31 AM
I remember exit polling showing the economy was the most important issue for 50-60% of voters, leaving only 40% or so for all other issues. You'll have to forgive me for being skeptical.

You neglected to mention what you think should be the penalty for me aiding and abetting 100,000 deaths, as you feel I have done.

I don't expect a tossed out of power R to accept any info that diverges from their hawk stands.

Poll: More view Afghan war as a 'mistake"
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-03-16-poll_N.htm

http://images.usatoday.com/news/graphics/2009/20090317_pollgraphic/1apollgraphic17.jpg


CNN Poll: Afghanistan War opposition at all-time high
Coming mainly from Ds (75%)and Indies.(57%)
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/01/cnn-poll-afghanistan-war-opposition-at-all-time-high/

patteeu
12-02-2009, 08:37 AM
Krauthammer is a murdering pos.

You'll say just about anything no matter how stupid it makes you look.

Krauthammer hit a home run with his comments here.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 08:40 AM
Evil

patteeu
12-02-2009, 08:48 AM
Dumb

wild1
12-02-2009, 08:55 AM
I don't expect a tossed out of power R to accept any info that diverges from their hawk stands.

Poll: More view Afghan war as a 'mistake"
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-03-16-poll_N.htm

http://images.usatoday.com/news/graphics/2009/20090317_pollgraphic/1apollgraphic17.jpg


CNN Poll: Afghanistan War opposition at all-time high
Coming mainly from Ds (75%)and Indies.(57%)
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/01/cnn-poll-afghanistan-war-opposition-at-all-time-high/

My comment was related to what voters said was the most important issue for them. This graphic is irrelevant to that.

I might feel Michelle's hairdo is unbecoming, and would respond to a poll as such, but that does not mean my voting decision had anything to do with it.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 08:56 AM
I smell Trotskyism.

wild1
12-02-2009, 09:00 AM
I smell Trotskyism.

Are you referring to me?

You've claimed so far that I support the Iraq invasion in retrospect, that I'm an "R", that I'm partially responsible for 100k deaths, and now that I'm a Marxist as well?

I'm curious as to what other truths you can reveal by staring into my soul.

http://www.pinballrebel.com/fortune/zoltan/zoltan_c.jpg

Cannibal
12-02-2009, 09:02 AM
It doesn't matter what Obama does regarding anything, including Afghanistan, the tea baggers will still complain. So this is much ado about nothing.

That said, we should be pulling out, so I disagree with Obama's decision.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 09:03 AM
That line was about Krauthammer and the general sentiment of this thread—not you.

Trotskyism is at the heart of NeoConservatism. Ya' know constant warfare to spread democracy....like Bush said in his second inaugural because we're going to "make over the world."

patteeu
12-02-2009, 09:26 AM
It doesn't matter what Obama does regarding anything, including Afghanistan, the tea baggers will still complain. So this is much ado about nothing.

That said, we should be pulling out, so I disagree with Obama's decision.

We *are* withdrawing, starting in 2011, whether we've succeeded in this "war of necessity" or not according to the POTUS so there's something here for everyone. I know it's pathetic, but that's what happens when we elect someone for whom politics trumps national security.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 09:29 AM
Fee, Fi, Fo, Fum.....I smell the blood of a ...oh nevermind.

HonestChieffan
12-02-2009, 09:31 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PxZyE6Jgabo/SxZutj5gXLI/AAAAAAAAMks/WCHkNGhnXqc/s400/theo4.gif

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 09:33 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PxZyE6Jgabo/SxZutj5gXLI/AAAAAAAAMks/WCHkNGhnXqc/s400/theo4.gif

Because endless war is such a good thing!

patteeu
12-02-2009, 09:43 AM
Because endless war is such a good thing!

How'd you feel about the "endless" cold war? Like it or not, we're in a long war. The only question is how we respond. Your fairytale world where peace is a byproduct of weakness doesn't exist.

KC native
12-02-2009, 09:45 AM
Whew, look who got up in a bit of a snit this morning.


Maybe a bit of good music will help

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IFb3zW7-tU4&rel=0&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b&hl=en_GB&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IFb3zW7-tU4&rel=0&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b&hl=en_GB&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Wow, that was horrible. Completely butchered a great song. I should have known better than to click on it.

donkhater
12-02-2009, 09:47 AM
How'd you feel about the "endless" cold war? Like it or not, we're in a long war. The only question is how we respond. Your fairytale world where peace is a byproduct of weakness doesn't exist.

How many shots were fired in the cold war? How many people died? How many countries did we invade putting our troops lives at stake?

Other than that, good analogy.:rolleyes:

HonestChieffan
12-02-2009, 09:50 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PxZyE6Jgabo/SxZuqJfjB4I/AAAAAAAAMkk/Itp6FZHvBic/s400/theo3.gif

Cannibal
12-02-2009, 09:59 AM
We *are* withdrawing, starting in 2011, whether we've succeeded in this "war of necessity" or not according to the POTUS so there's something here for everyone. I know it's pathetic, but that's what happens when we elect someone for whom politics trumps national security.

We should withdraw now. Not in 2011.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 10:06 AM
We should withdraw now. Not in 2011.

Hear ye! :thumb:

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 10:07 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PxZyE6Jgabo/SxZuqJfjB4I/AAAAAAAAMkk/Itp6FZHvBic/s400/theo3.gif

Open ended until we meet AQ's objective—get new bases since PGW off their lands and be an honest broker in the ME conflict without being so one-sided.
No different from any other side in any war.

HonestChieffan
12-02-2009, 10:08 AM
Mullahs dont use a poll to determine committment.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 10:09 AM
How many shots were fired in the cold war? How many people died? How many countries did we invade putting our troops lives at stake?

Other than that, good analogy.:rolleyes:

Exactly. That was was fought mostly by proxy and used more sabre rattling.
This war is not necessary. It only exists due to stubborness of the elites in our govt. Elites, all of whom are big-govt left-leaning globalists who could give a shit about America than their own interests.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 10:11 AM
Mullahs dont use a poll to determine committment.

I wasn't using the poll to determine committment per se. It was used to help you guys get a clue as to one of the reasons you were turned out of power in a representative republic where the people's house decide to go to war.

I wanna know why the Ds in Congress just don't cut the purse strings NOW like they did regarding Vietnam. Probably because it's not Nixon in office.

mlyonsd
12-02-2009, 10:14 AM
I wanna know why the Ds in Congress just don't cut the purse strings NOW like they did regarding Vietnam. Probably because it's not Nixon in office.

Probably because the 2010 elections are coming up.

Afghanistan is different than Vietnam because AQ actually jumped out and bit us from there.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 10:18 AM
Probably because the 2010 elections are coming up.

Afghanistan is different than Vietnam because AQ actually jumped out and bit us from there.
No they did it from Florida and Germany. Oh and they're not there anymore. We disrupted their camps. Time to go and leave a warning to the Taliban that if there's another attack by AQ under their protection, we'll be right back.

KISS and keep it cheap too!

patteeu
12-02-2009, 10:20 AM
How many shots were fired in the cold war? How many people died? How many countries did we invade putting our troops lives at stake?

Other than that, good analogy.:rolleyes:

You're right. We haven't had and aren't likely to have nearly as many people killed in this war as we did in the Cold War, even if it goes on for a century at the rate we've lost people so far.

I think you've experienced a history fail.

http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/political-pictures-history-fail.jpg

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 10:22 AM
Fee, fi, fo, fum.....

patteeu
12-02-2009, 10:23 AM
We should withdraw now. Not in 2011.

I understand your position. That might be better than extending the war for 1.5 years for political purposes without any real commitment to achieving success.

patteeu
12-02-2009, 10:24 AM
Exactly. That was was fought mostly by proxy and used more sabre rattling.
This war is not necessary. It only exists due to stubborness of the elites in our govt. Elites, all of whom are big-govt left-leaning globalists who could give a shit about America than their own interests.

You get an F in history too.

mlyonsd
12-02-2009, 10:25 AM
No they did it from Florida and Germany. Oh and they're not there anymore. We disrupted their camps. Time to go and leave a warning to the Taliban that if there's another attack by AQ under their protection, we'll be right back.

KISS and keep it cheap too!

I disagree on where they 'did it' from but we'd argue about that all day.

My point was though it's too much a hot potato issue for the dems to just drop and walk away from this soon to 2010. For the most part they'll keep ranks, sit on their hands, and hope for the best. When I say hope for the best I mean if things go poorly they'll hope they aren't stuck with 'you lost the war' card.

As for leaving a warning to the Taliban and leaving we've spent too much blood and treasure to trust them. IMO.

wild1
12-02-2009, 10:26 AM
Trotskyism is ...constant warfare to spread democracy....

That's a strange statement.

mlyonsd
12-02-2009, 10:26 AM
I understand your position. That might be better than extending the war for 1.5 years for political purposes without any real commitment to achieving success.

Exactly. This extending the war is more a political move than really caring about it's outcome.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 10:28 AM
My point was though it's too much a hot potato issue for the dems to just drop and walk away from this soon to 2010. For the most part they'll keep ranks, sit on their hands, and hope for the best. When I say hope for the best I mean if things go poorly they'll hope they aren't stuck with 'you lost the war' card.
I think it would help them hold onto power. No one on the right is going to support them anyway, so it would curry favor with most of their D constituents 75% who are against this and with the Indies who are against it at 57%. Most are tired of war except for those following their Pied-Piper NCs and their lies. They're out of power for a reason.

Sorry, I think you're misreading this.

As for leaving a warning to the Taliban and leaving we've spent too much blood and treasure to trust them. IMO.
They're not our enemy and are NOT a threat to the United States for that to be of concern. If anything, their offer of concessions to get us out shows they'd not want us back in there....meaning they'd have to cooperate or else.

I think you're misreading this as well. Maybe some French food would help?

wild1
12-02-2009, 10:29 AM
Exactly. This extending the war is more a political move than really caring about it's outcome.

It's an attempt to punt on a real decision (and any possible political consequences) for a couple of years, while he continues to push his domestic agenda.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 10:31 AM
It's an attempt to punt on a real decision (and any possible political consequences) for a couple of years, while he continues to push his domestic agenda.

I disagree. I think he's misreading the politics inside this country. You guys think the majority thinks like you. Recent past elections and polls show otherwise.

Cannibal
12-02-2009, 10:32 AM
I understand your position. That might be better than extending the war for 1.5 years for political purposes without any real commitment to achieving success.

You must realize that aside from killing every man, woman and child in that country, there will be no "success". It is a worthless shithole that cannot be pacified regardless of the number of troops we put over there and regardless of how long they stay. It is a complete waste of time, money and American blood.

Genocide, withdrawl or endless commitment with accompanying casualties on both sides seem to be the choices there.

wild1
12-02-2009, 10:33 AM
I disagree. I think he's misreading the politics inside this country. You guys think the majority thinks like you. Recent past elections and polls show otherwise.

It's like you pull these posts out of a hat or something.

patteeu
12-02-2009, 10:35 AM
You must realize that aside from killing every man, woman and child in that country, there will be no "success". It is a worthless shithole that cannot be pacified regardless of the number of troops we put over there and regardless of how long they stay. It is a complete waste of time, money and American blood.

Genocide, withdrawl or endless commitment with accompanying casualties on both sides seem to be the choices there.

We aren't fighting against every man, woman, and child in Afghanistan. We're fighting against a minority faction that isn't popular among the majority of Afghan citizens. You're misreading the situation.

patteeu
12-02-2009, 10:36 AM
It's like you pull these posts out of a hat or something.

She picks a position and then desperately says anything that comes to mind to support it no matter how ridiculous she sounds.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 10:37 AM
It's like you pull these posts out of a hat or something.

Sounds like I'm just over your head. Those posts are my opinions. I can get them anywhere I want. But keep following me, wild-about-me.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 10:39 AM
You must realize that aside from killing every man, woman and child in that country, there will be no "success". It is a worthless shithole that cannot be pacified regardless of the number of troops we put over there and regardless of how long they stay. It is a complete waste of time, money and American blood.

Genocide, withdrawl or endless commitment with accompanying casualties on both sides seem to be the choices there.

These guys fail to learn from history by those who previously tried to conquer Afghanistan. Afterall, the underlying sentiment is we're exceptional so we can beat the odds. When it's really hubris and ego at work here. A pull-put is not a loss. It's a victory.

patteeu
12-02-2009, 10:45 AM
These guys fail to learn from history by those who previously tried to conquer Afghanistan. Afterall, the underlying sentiment is we're exceptional so we can beat the odds. When it's really hubris and ego at work here. A pull-put is not a loss. It's a victory.

We're not trying to conquer Afghanistan. We're partnering with the majority of Afghans to help them stabilize their own country.

But speaking of learning from history, you need to brush up on your Cold War history. We had lots of casualties and it was long but not endless. Oh, and btw, we won.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 10:50 AM
I refuse to live endlessly with terror like Israel has had too. This war should be over with by now.

wild1
12-02-2009, 10:55 AM
Sounds like I'm just over your head. Those posts are my opinions. I can get them anywhere I want. But keep following me, wild-about-me.

You were the one who started it by replying to my comments.

ROYC75
12-02-2009, 10:56 AM
I see the left is all up in arms today about letting AQ rebuild and kill another 3- 5,000 Americans or even people from Europe someday.

Nice.

Mr. Kotter
12-02-2009, 10:58 AM
How'd you feel about the "endless" cold war? Like it or not, we're in a long war. The only question is how we respond. Your fairytale world where peace is a byproduct of weakness doesn't exist.

Nicely, and politely, put. Heh.

Mr. Kotter
12-02-2009, 11:01 AM
How many shots were fired in the cold war? How many people died? How many countries did we invade putting our troops lives at stake?

Other than that, good analogy.:rolleyes:


Your "grasp" of history....is amazingly....shall we say...shallow. Like BEP's.

wild1
12-02-2009, 11:06 AM
She picks a position and then desperately says anything that comes to mind to support it no matter how ridiculous she sounds.

It's sort of thread-terrorism. You have discussion of something happening that one person wishes to suppress or stop, so they come in and do something to create chaos and destruction and confusion. By the time the attack is over you have lost all will to participate

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 11:07 AM
Your "grasp" of history....is amazingly....shall we say...shallow. Like BEP's.

This by the man who says our war with Mexico was a ruse for Manifest Destiny? It's interesting how you validated my history when it agreed with your views. Now that it doesn't it's shallow. Very easily seen through and shallow I might add. My knowledge of history just goes beyond mainstream HS tripe. You're a statist at heat. Since when do conservatives trust the state?

Anyhow, we know you really had nothing to say of value with a post like this. Typical Kotter posting about the poster and not the substance.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 11:08 AM
You were the one who started it by replying to my comments.

Comments, plural? I responded to one I thought. Then you came back.

Mr. Kotter
12-02-2009, 11:12 AM
This by the man who says our war with Mexico was a ruse for Manifest Destiny? It's interesting how you validated my history when it agreed with your views. Now that it doesn't it's shallow. Very easily seen through and shallow I might add. My knowledge of history just goes beyond mainstream HS tripe. You're a statist at heat. Since when do conservatives trust the state?

I don't know any reputable historian who doesn't accept "your" view of the Mexican-American war. Distrust and cynicism is one thing....xenophobic fear of reality when it doesn't comport with your own ideological dogma is quite another. You seem to mistake the latter for the former.

mlyonsd
12-02-2009, 11:19 AM
I think it would help them hold onto power. No one on the right is going to support them anyway, so it would curry favor with most of their D constituents 75% who are against this and with the Indies who are against it at 57%. Most are tired of war except for those following their Pied-Piper NCs and their lies. They're out of power for a reason.

I think you're the one misreading it. If Obama pulled out right now the dems would lose both houses in 2010 and he might not even keep the presidency in 2012. Primarily because of how they campaigned. The Karl Rove's of the world would carve them up.


They're not our enemy and are NOT a threat to the United States for that to be of concern. If anything, their offer of concessions to get us out shows they'd not want us back in there....meaning they'd have to cooperate or else.

I think you're misreading this as well. Maybe some French food would help?

The taliban is the enemy of civil rights for people living in Afghanistan. I just don't see how any American president comes away looking good by giving concessions to people like that.

I'm always up for French food if someone else is cooking it.

BigChiefFan
12-02-2009, 11:24 AM
I think you're the one misreading it. If Obama pulled out right now the dems would lose both houses in 2010 and he might not even keep the presidency in 2012. Primarily because of how they campaigned. The Karl Rove's of the world would carve them up.



The taliban is the enemy of civil rights for people living in Afghanistan. I just don't see how any American president comes away looking good by giving concessions to people like that.

I'm always up for French food if someone else is cooking it.
I agree with your take, but how sad is it that politics prevails over sensibility?

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 11:27 AM
I don't know any reputable historian who doesn't accept "your" view of the Mexican-American war. Distrust and cynicism is one thing....xenophobic fear of reality when it doesn't comport with your own ideological dogma is quite another. You seem to mistake the latter for the former.
There you go again with those authoritarian but subjective adjectives.

Mr. Kotter
12-02-2009, 11:55 AM
There you go again with those authoritarian but subjective adjectives.


Life is subjective. Duh. Reality, however, is not...at least not for those of us who choose to live there.

Calcountry
12-02-2009, 12:02 PM
He was one of the biggest agitators for invading Iraq resulting in the killing of over 100,000 innocent Iraqis, many of them women and children. He's just as guilty....more so since he helped build the case for it. And you condone it....so you have a hand in it too.I don't condone the taking of hostages for 444 days. Neither do I condone the bombing of the USS Cole, or Khobar Towers, or 9/11, or the Madrid bombings, or the Major Hasan.

Iraq and Afghanistan are just blowback from the above.

BTW, are you a Muslim?

Mr. Kotter
12-02-2009, 12:03 PM
...

BTW, are you a Muslim?

LMAO

RINGLEADER
12-02-2009, 03:28 PM
Polls show Americans are not just sick and tired of Iraq but also Afghanistan.

Could say the same thing about Obama and Dem health care plans...

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 03:31 PM
Could say the same thing about Obama and Dem health care plans...

I'd agree with that too. Toss in immigration. People are NOT happy with the direction of the country for the past 9 years.

We had truly courageous and patriotic leadership this Afghan escalation would be scrapped, and both expensive war efforts would go entirely and rapidly. Next would be abandonment of government intervention in the health care system combined with deregulation of health care markets so that an efficient market could create itself. These things are too rational for either party.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 03:45 PM
LMAO

You should ask him if he's a Nazi? Genocide would be his solution. LMAO LMAO

Sheeple.

Chocolate Hog
12-02-2009, 03:52 PM
Dumb

Says the guy who supports Dick Cheney

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 03:53 PM
I don't condone the taking of hostages for 444 days. Neither do I condone the bombing of the USS Cole, or Khobar Towers, or 9/11, or the Madrid bombings, or the Major Hasan.
Then get out of their countries if you don't want that. You sound totally unable to take even the remotest responsibility for being inside some countries where we don't belong including to do British Petroleum's bidding in Iran long ago while helping them torture dissidents who didn't like the Shah. Responsibility is what conservatives claim to advocate.


BTW, are you a Muslim?

There's Muslims under your bed bunnyturd.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 03:54 PM
Says the guy who supports Dick Cheney

ROFL Bullies prefer the company of other bullies usually.

Calcountry
12-02-2009, 04:07 PM
Then get out of their countries if you don't want that. You sound totally unable to take even the remotest responsibility for being inside some countries where we don't belong including to do British Petroleum's bidding in Iran long ago while helping them torture dissidents who didn't like the Shah. Responsibility is what conservatives claim to advocate.




There's Muslims under your bed bunnyturd.Dammit, we should never have blockaided the Japanese before WWII. Damn, we should have just minded our own damned business, and we would NEVER had to confront Hitler and Tojo. Damn, we should just go home, and make babies and hide from the rest of the world, and they will leave us alone.

Nice. Yeah, like that will work to ordain and establish the constitution to ourselves and our posterity.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 04:07 PM
Bhwaaaaaaaaaaa!

Chocolate Hog
12-02-2009, 04:10 PM
And how does a third world country compare to Hitler or Japan? You realize 9-11 wouldn't have happend if say the president would have read the intelligence reports? How can you take the war on terror seriously when we don't even protect our own borders?

ClevelandBronco
12-02-2009, 04:17 PM
Polls show Americans are not just sick and tired of Iraq but also Afghanistan.

Are you pretending to give a shit what the majority thinks? That's a bit too democratic and populist for my taste. (And yours, if you'll be honest about it.)

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 04:19 PM
Are you pretending to give a shit what the majority thinks? That's a bit too democratic and populist for my taste. (And yours, if you'll be honest about it.)

Yes I do because it's the people's house the decides on war and keeping it funded too. Afterall it's the people that fight those wars. We have a representative republic with powers given to certain branches. So it is accurately fitting that this is not something the Constitution tries to check on the people but rather that the people check the govt on via reps. Ya' know those pesky checks and balances.


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BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 04:20 PM
And how does a third world country compare to Hitler or Japan? You realize 9-11 wouldn't have happend if say the president would have read the intelligence reports? How can you take the war on terror seriously when we don't even protect our own borders?

Precisely!

ClevelandBronco
12-02-2009, 04:24 PM
Yes I do because it's the people's house the decides on war and keeping it funded too. We have a reprsentative republic with powers given to certain branches. So it is accurately fitting that this is not something the Constitution tries to check on the people but rather that the people check their reps on. Ya' know those pesky checks and balances.

I can see it now. The people rising in masses and banging on the doors of the People House demanding change.

Sure.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 04:26 PM
I can see it now. The people rising in masses and banging on the doors of the People House demanding change.

Sure.
It's gonna be more than banging of doors! Look at this picture.
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Calcountry
12-02-2009, 04:30 PM
And how does a third world country compare to Hitler or Japan? You realize 9-11 wouldn't have happend if say the president would have read the intelligence reports? How can you take the war on terror seriously when we don't even protect our own borders?I honestly don't understand why we don't?

It makes absolutely no sense unless we want to go down conspiracy lane, and hypothesise, that it is a plot to establish the "Kingdom of the Americas", and institute the Amero as the currency.

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 04:33 PM
Calcountry's in this one!
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Chocolate Hog
12-02-2009, 04:38 PM
I honestly don't understand why we don't?

It makes absolutely no sense unless we want to go down conspiracy lane, and hypothesise, that it is a plot to establish the "Kingdom of the Americas", and institute the Amero as the currency.

I don't know if that was a serious post or not but lets be honest Democrat or Republican the border has been ignore. My theory is it caters toward big business in a way to offset the union greed. This would make some sense because why would any politican who actually supported American support things like NAFTA?

patteeu
12-02-2009, 05:31 PM
Says the guy who supports Dick Cheney

That is correct. You should too.

patteeu
12-02-2009, 06:31 PM
You realize 9-11 wouldn't have happend if say the president would have read the intelligence reports?

No, I don't. Fill me in.

Chocolate Hog
12-02-2009, 08:29 PM
No, I don't. Fill me in.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90453&page=1

Mr. Kotter
12-02-2009, 08:35 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90453&page=1

:spock:




LMAO

Chocolate Hog
12-02-2009, 08:38 PM
:spock:




LMAO

?

BucEyedPea
12-02-2009, 08:55 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90453&page=1

I've known about that for years. But you see The Weekly Standard, the War Street Journal and The National Review, pat's reading material, don't report things like that. Per Ray McGovern, former CIA, AQ's communications were tracked right up to 9/11. We're supposed to believe he suddenly went into a cave and wasn't heard from.

patteeu
12-02-2009, 09:22 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90453&page=1

Go on. Explain to me how he could have used that report to prevent 9/11. Are you suggesting that he could have shut down all air travel in the US for an indefinite period or something equally ridiculous?

Mr. Kotter
12-02-2009, 09:29 PM
?

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Mr. Kotter
12-02-2009, 09:30 PM
Go on. Explain to me how he could have used that report to prevent 9/11. Are you suggesting that he could have shut down all air travel in the US for an indefinite period or something equally ridiculous?

Heh...hence my Youtube song for billay-boy.... ;)

Chocolate Hog
12-02-2009, 10:12 PM
Go on. Explain to me how he could have used that report to prevent 9/11. Are you suggesting that he could have shut down all air travel in the US for an indefinite period or something equally ridiculous?

Nah the president should have gone on vacation.

patteeu
12-03-2009, 01:12 AM
Nah the president should have gone on vacation.

I take it that that's your white flag.

Taco John
12-03-2009, 01:52 AM
Krauthammer looks like The Grinch...

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/071119/carey_l.jpg

Taco John
12-03-2009, 01:55 AM
Go on. Explain to me how he could have used that report to prevent 9/11. Are you suggesting that he could have shut down all air travel in the US for an indefinite period or something equally ridiculous?



Ha! Come on! I know you're not this shallow. The pool runs much deeper than the 3 ft. your displaying here. There are any number of measures that could have been put in place. This is the US Government we're talking about here, not the Elks club.

Taco John
12-03-2009, 02:07 AM
I think this war is foolish. There's no way that I believe that Obama can snatch victory from Bush's failure. At best, he will be able to achieve the same level of failed equilibrium that the surge produced in Iraq, where we are still required in order to maintain the peace, but if we leave the place will go to hell.

Even if we occupy these countries for decades, they're going to want to determine their own path based on their cultural histories and collective beliefs that have sprung from those histories.

I can't imagine what we have to gain as a nation by shedding blood and treasure on their sand.

Chocolate Hog
12-03-2009, 02:42 AM
I take it that that's your white flag.

Thats what president Bush did you suggestioning he waved the white flag?

patteeu
12-03-2009, 08:55 AM
Thats what president Bush did you suggestioning he waved the white flag?

Nope, I'm suggesting that since you refuse to offer anything close to a reasonable approach for preventing 9/11 on the basis of that intel report, you're admitting that your previous accusation was baseless.

Ha! Come on! I know you're not this shallow. The pool runs much deeper than the 3 ft. your displaying here. There are any number of measures that could have been put in place. This is the US Government we're talking about here, not the Elks club.

I'm all ears. Let's hear about some of these measures that would have prevented the attacks and been feasible in the pre-9/11 world.

Taco John
12-03-2009, 10:38 AM
I'm all ears. Let's hear about some of these measures that would have prevented the attacks and been feasible in the pre-9/11 world.



No, no, no... You're probably right. Sitting on the presidential thumb and going on vacations was probably the only thing that could possibly be done. How foolish of us to think otherwise.

patteeu
12-03-2009, 03:26 PM
Nah the president should have gone on vacation.

No, no, no... You're probably right. Sitting on the presidential thumb and going on vacations was probably the only thing that could possibly be done. How foolish of us to think otherwise.

Don't fight over that flag, boys.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SbIonXD_QzA/SfaFPUW5rNI/AAAAAAAABtY/K_sey6uhU-A/s400/wve-white-flag-260.jpg

Taco John
12-03-2009, 03:34 PM
It's pretty hard to surrender when we're scoffing at your position here.

patteeu
12-03-2009, 04:02 PM
It's pretty hard to surrender when we're scoffing at your position here.

Sorry, there's no extra credit for degree of difficulty. :p

Mr. Kotter
12-03-2009, 05:13 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90453&page=1

So what made this report more "credible" than any of the hundreds of possible scenarios that a President is "briefed" on each years--99% or more of which never happen? I mean, if the standard is....if the President has been briefed about the mere "possibility" of a hypothetical attack, it appears that it would be prudent to cancel Superbowl this year.

Sounds like security is being raised to unprecedented levels according to reports I'm hearing....I suspect Obama has been briefed about this possibility, so to be sure we are safe....we really should just cancel the thing, shouldn't we? Wouldn't that be the prudent thing to do???

Taco John
12-03-2009, 05:39 PM
Sorry, there's no extra credit for degree of difficulty. :p


ROFL :clap:

Well played.

Chocolate Hog
12-03-2009, 07:33 PM
So what made this report more "credible" than any of the hundreds of possible scenarios that a President is "briefed" on each years--99% or more of which never happen? I mean, if the standard is....if the President has been briefed about the mere "possibility" of a hypothetical attack, it appears that it would be prudent to cancel Superbowl this year.

Sounds like security is being raised to unprecedented levels according to reports I'm hearing....I suspect Obama has been briefed about this possibility, so to be sure we are safe....we really should just cancel the thing, shouldn't we? Wouldn't that be the prudent thing to do???

No Mr.Kotter the prudent thing to do would be to go on vacation, then after wards fire nobody who was repsonible.

Mr. Kotter
12-03-2009, 08:46 PM
No Mr.Kotter the prudent thing to do would be to go on vacation, then after wards fire nobody who was repsonible.

I see; so you aren't going to answer a serious question....because you know that you've been made to look a fool, and will instead, surrender. Got it.

Fair enough. A man who knows when to wave the white flag--a rare find these days.

Taco John
12-03-2009, 09:07 PM
Kotter isn't nearly as good at it as patteeu is.

Mr. Kotter
12-03-2009, 11:55 PM
Kotter isn't nearly as good at it as patteeu is.

Sorry, you don't score sympathy points for sucking ass either; not that that's ever stopped you before.

:p

Taco John
12-03-2009, 11:56 PM
Hahaha! The forums biggest suck-up ass kisser saying that to me just made my day.

Mr. Kotter
12-04-2009, 12:00 AM
Hahaha! The forums biggest suck-up ass kisser saying that to me just made my day.

Your life must, truly, suck...if "that" made your day.

My condolences. Hopefully, the wife and boy will find happiness with someone not glued to the computer...best wishes for a new beginning, Isaac.

:)

ClevelandBronco
12-04-2009, 12:04 AM
Wow. That crossed a line.

Mr. Kotter
12-04-2009, 12:07 AM
Wow. That crossed a line.

Nah. Only a Bronco fan who hasn't witnessed the all the shit that TJ has sown...would think that; it's okay, it's understandable. But, afterall, you reap what you sow...as "they" say.

Between this site, the Mane, and his other Internet addictions...I'm sure he doesn't even recognize his wife's dalliances with neighbors and "friends."

Taco John
12-04-2009, 12:09 AM
Meh. I know enough about how well my family is put together not to be bothered by the likes of Kotter.

Taco John
12-04-2009, 12:12 AM
It's funny though, Kotter. Do you really think your slams on my family reflect poorly on me?

Mr. Kotter
12-04-2009, 12:14 AM
Meh. I know enough about how well my family is put together not to be bothered by the likes of Kotter.

Uh-huh. That whole "machismo" thing is notorious for building a false sense of security. I suspect though, at least, you are not the violent or vindictive type; too much estrogen flowing through those wanna-be-badboy-but-too-much-of-a-pussy veins of yours. NTTAWWT.

But, hey..."hope floats," right Amigo??? :toast:

Mr. Kotter
12-04-2009, 12:17 AM
It's funny though, Kotter. Do you really think your slams on my family reflect poorly on me?

Family? Are you nuts? I think your wife must be a saint....I'm just recognizing that even a saint can only be pushed so far; given what I see of you around this joint, the Mane, and your other internet addictions...her leaving you will be laudable, and quite predictable.

You can rebuild though, dude; we all make mistakes, and live and learn. Some are simply "slower" than others. It's cool. It's just ironic given your own misguided slams at me and others. Heh.

No worries, dude.

Taco John
12-04-2009, 12:22 AM
*shrug*

Mr. Kotter
12-04-2009, 12:24 AM
*shrug*

:toast: To a brighter future. Sincerely.

Wishin' you the best; night, Isaac.

Taco John
12-04-2009, 12:28 AM
Yeah, whatever. *shrug*

Chocolate Hog
12-04-2009, 01:26 PM
I see; so you aren't going to answer a serious question....because you know that you've been made to look a fool, and will instead, surrender. Got it.

Fair enough. A man who knows when to wave the white flag--a rare find these days.

You know the guy in charge of the country did go on vacation and after all that he didn't fire anyone who was responsible right?