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View Full Version : Legal Take down your flagpole, your US flagpole !


ROYC75
12-04-2009, 06:25 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,579338,00.html

Virginia Veteran Gets Extra Week Before He Must Remove Flag or Face Consequences


A Medal of Honor recipient in a dispute over his right to fly the American flag in his yard will have another week before D-Day -- when he'll be forced to take down the Stars and Stripes or face legal action.

Ninety-year-old Col. Van T. Barfoot, a veteran of three wars, initially was given a 5 p.m. Friday deadline to dismantle his flagpole or face a legal battle over violating an order from his townhouse community association in Henrico County, Va.

John K. Honey, who is part of Barfoot's pro-bono legal team, said the homeowner association's board told him Thursday that it would push the date back a week to Friday, Dec. 11, the Richmond Times-Dispatch reported.

"There's not going to be an announcement anytime this weekend," Honey told the paper. "We can all get some breathing room."

Barfoot, who fought in World War II, the Korean War and Vietnam, was told in July that he could not put up his freestanding flagpole in his Sussex Square neighborhood — but he installed it anyway.

On Tuesday, he says, he got a letter from the homeowners' association telling him the 21-foot pole he erected in September violates the community's aesthetic guidelines.

U.S. Sen. Mark Warner, D-Va., has gotten involved in the dispute in the hopes of coming to a settlement.

"We intend to get to work right away to try to come up with a solution that’s acceptable to both Col. Barfoot and to the Homeowner’s Association," Warner's office said on his blog.

The American Legion also has joined Barfoot's fight.

"The association underestimated the fight left in this elderly veteran, and now they have to contend with the determination and persistence of Col. Barfoot's 2.5 million friends in The American Legion," National Commander Clarence E. Hill said in a statement.

But the homeowners' association defended their position, saying the issue wasn't Barfoot's right to fly the flag.

"This is not about the American flag. This is about a flagpole," the association said in a statement, insisting that Barfoot directly violated its board's July ruling.

"Col. Barfoot is free to display the American flag in conformity with the neighborhood rules and restrictions. We are hopeful that Col. Barfoot will comply."

Barfoot told the Times-Dispatch that he's faithfully displayed Old Glory every day since he served in the Army.

"There's never been a day in my life or a place I've lived in my life that you couldn't fly the American flag," he said.

Pablo
12-04-2009, 06:39 PM
He lives in a townhouse. They can pretty much tell him whatever the **** they want to, and he'll have to comply. Hell, I'm sure it's in the itty-bitty fine print on the contract he signed.

And it doesn't matter what's on the flag: the stars and stripes or daffy duck, he's just gonna have to comply with it.

fan4ever
12-04-2009, 06:42 PM
My HOA could give the Taliban a run for their money...

HonestChieffan
12-04-2009, 06:42 PM
They cant win. Stupid bastards should have put up 3 of them for a MOH winner.

ROYC75
12-04-2009, 06:47 PM
This is just a stupid sad story of a blooming idiot, probably some liberal wacko that wants his 3 minutes of fame.

Norman Einstein
12-04-2009, 07:07 PM
He lives in a townhouse. They can pretty much tell him whatever the **** they want to, and he'll have to comply. Hell, I'm sure it's in the itty-bitty fine print on the contract he signed.

And it doesn't matter what's on the flag: the stars and stripes or daffy duck, he's just gonna have to comply with it.

If he owns the townhouse and it has land it's still his. The covenent, or whatever you would like to call it, does not prohibit flagpoles. The 'committee' got together and voted that they didn't like it.

I say f*ck them and the horse they rode in on. I hope he finds some lawyer that is very good at his trade and ends up owning the property a full city block around his place and then kicks the bastards out.

KCWolfman
12-04-2009, 11:25 PM
I would just put a sign in my car with the company name and contact info saying "These Anti-American business owners won't let a War Veteran fly his flag at home. Call them and let them know how you feel"
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fan4ever
12-04-2009, 11:54 PM
There are always ways of speaking your piece...

Cannibal
12-05-2009, 12:03 AM
You want to fly the stars and stripes? Don't move into HOA.

Jesus Fucking Christ this shit annoys me.

Mr. Kotter
12-05-2009, 12:31 AM
You want to fly the stars and stripes? Don't move into HOA.

Jesus ****ing Christ this shit annoys me.

Yeah, we know how offensive the U.S. flag on a flagpole should be, afterall.

wild1
12-05-2009, 07:44 AM
Well, they ought to let him, he won the freaking medal of honor.

However I'm assuming he did sign a contract, so I don't know what legal recourse he has.

KCWolfman
12-05-2009, 07:47 AM
Well, they ought to let him, he won the freaking medal of honor.

However I'm assuming he did sign a contract, so I don't know what legal recourse he has.

None at all. But like I said, he can make their lives hell. Advertise what they have blocked along with the company name and phone number and their employees will start pitching a fit about the extra and obnoxious phone calls everyday.
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BigRedChief
12-05-2009, 08:12 AM
He lives in a townhouse. They can pretty much tell him whatever the **** they want to, and he'll have to comply. Hell, I'm sure it's in the itty-bitty fine print on the contract he signed.

And it doesn't matter what's on the flag: the stars and stripes or daffy duck, he's just gonna have to comply with it.Your point is valid. I've been involved in my home association and rules are rules. You start bending them everyone wants an exception. I'm sure it's legal and he's on the wrong side of the law on this issue. But, that being said.....

He's a medal of honor winner. That does matter. He gets a lot of leeway/exceptioons in my book. He has served his country well. And he wants to fly a big ass flag in his yard, let him.

Mr. Kotter
12-05-2009, 08:19 AM
None at all. But like I said, he can make their lives hell. Advertise what they have blocked along with the company name and phone number and their employees will start pitching a fit about the extra and obnoxious phone calls everyday.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yep. That's exactly what he should do.

banyon
12-05-2009, 01:40 PM
Your point is valid. I've been involved in my home association and rules are rules. You start bending them everyone wants an exception. I'm sure it's legal and he's on the wrong side of the law on this issue. But, that being said.....

He's a medal of honor winner. That does matter. He gets a lot of leeway/exceptioons in my book. He has served his country well. And he wants to fly a big ass flag in his yard, let him.

I agree with this.

some of thes HOA's are truly out of control though.

Bwana
12-05-2009, 02:19 PM
I agree with this.

some of thes HOA's are truly out of control though.

You got that right. My brother got into a pissing match with his HOA over a mailbox. :spock: He had is mailbox hit twice by cars, so he built his own using concrete and river rock. Very cool looking mailbox and looks great because the Snake River is part of his back yard. The told him they "didn't approve it" and he told them to hang it in their ass. He never heard another word from them.

banyon
12-05-2009, 05:44 PM
You got that right. My brother got into a pissing match with his HOA over a mailbox. :spock: He had is mailbox hit twice by cars, so he built his own using concrete and river rock. Very cool looking mailbox and looks great because the Snake River is part of his back yard. The told him they "didn't approve it" and he told them to hang it in their ass. He never heard another word from them.

Exactly, as long as your mailbox isn't a 50 ft tall pink flamingo with christmas lights that are visible for a 50 mile radius, then they should STFU and mind their own business.

Norman Einstein
12-05-2009, 05:47 PM
You got that right. My brother got into a pissing match with his HOA over a mailbox. :spock: He had is mailbox hit twice by cars, so he built his own using concrete and river rock. Very cool looking mailbox and looks great because the Snake River is part of his back yard. The told him they "didn't approve it" and he told them to hang it in their ass. He never heard another word from them.

It seems the only HOA that has any kind of power are the ones that have more money than common sense and/or compassion. I'd class the people involved here as total snobs. I'd like to know their political affiliation as it would be a shame if the lines were drawn only due to political party membership. It would also be interesting to know the ancestry of the members of the HOA that are doing the vote.

I would also wonder if the War Hero in question has representation to stand up to these people.

Donger
12-05-2009, 06:31 PM
There is no provision in the community's rules expressly forbidding flagpoles, Barfoot's daughter said. But she said the board ruled against her father's fixture and ordered it removed in July, deciding that free-standing flag poles are not aesthetically appropriate. Short flag stands attached to porches dot the community.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/POLEGAT02_20091202-091201/309031/P10/

KCWolfman
12-05-2009, 09:08 PM
There is no provision in the community's rules expressly forbidding flagpoles, Barfoot's daughter said. But she said the board ruled against her father's fixture and ordered it removed in July, deciding that free-standing flag poles are not aesthetically appropriate. Short flag stands attached to porches dot the community.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/POLEGAT02_20091202-091201/309031/P10/

Well, then I am sure some lawyer looking to make a name can kick the HOA in the heuvos and win easily.

KCTitus
12-05-2009, 09:26 PM
I live in this area...not the Sussex community, but in Western Henrico. This is the second such instance of an HOA forcing a retired Veteran to taking down his flags/flagpoles in Richmond VA. About 7-8 years ago, in Wyndham the same thing happened, and it went to the Federal courts and the Fed's ruled in favor of the HOA.

I understood the ruling, but didnt like it. the HOA just needs to let the guy have his flagpole. A CMH winner deserves that much.

I have been and my wife is currently on our HOA, and the HOA can make whatever adjustments it needs to the bylaws to accomodate special situations.

This is a special situation.

Duck Dog
12-05-2009, 09:36 PM
MOH recipients are above any HOA. This mans country should have bought him a better house in a better neighborhood.

btlook1
12-05-2009, 11:52 PM
Well said Duck dog!!

BigChiefFan
12-06-2009, 02:02 AM
You know what? Fuck rules-do ya thing. Long live liberty.

T-post Tom
12-06-2009, 02:48 AM
After watching this, I just want to give the old guy a big hug and thank him for his service to our country.

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Norman Einstein
12-06-2009, 06:29 AM
This man put his life on the line for others, most likely on more than one occasion. He did so without reservation from what I've read. I wonder how many of his neighbors would cross the street to help anyone in distress?

If he is forced to removed the flagpole I think it would be proper for him to report any violation of the law he notices any one of those neighbors to the authorities. As the lady in the video said, she wonders how they all feel about speeding, I doubt that came up as a passing thought. She most likely has witnessed them driving faster than allowed. What goes around comes around is an old saying that I hope applies to these idiots.

Bwana
12-06-2009, 09:41 AM
There is no provision in the community's rules expressly forbidding flagpoles, Barfoot's daughter said. But she said the board ruled against her father's fixture and ordered it removed in July, deciding that free-standing flag poles are not aesthetically appropriate. Short flag stands attached to porches dot the community.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/POLEGAT02_20091202-091201/309031/P10/

The old boy is NINTY FIVE YEARS OLD! What does he have left, a year or two. The HOA needs the back the hell off on this one.

The HOA can make the rule now and enforce it in the future if they like, but he had the pole and flag up before any kind of rule was set by the HOA. That being said, the old boy needs to tell them to kiss his ass. :moon:

If they try to have it taken down, he needs to call every news station in the area and have them come out and film it. Lets see how that works out for them.

BigRedChief
12-06-2009, 09:43 AM
This man put his life on the line for others, most likely on more than one occasion. He did so without reservation from what I've read. I wonder how many of his neighbors would cross the street to help anyone in distress?

If he is forced to removed the flagpole I think it would be proper for him to report any violation of the law he notices any one of those neighbors to the authorities. As the lady in the video said, she wonders how they all feel about speeding, I doubt that came up as a passing thought. She most likely has witnessed them driving faster than allowed. What goes around comes around is an old saying that I hope applies to these idiots.
Screw being a nuisance/pest. He's a friggin medal of honor winner, its beneath him.

Screw em. Fight the bastards. Try to throw an elderly MOH winner in jail over flying the flag? I'll contribute to the legal expenses. I'm sure many more would also.

Bwana
12-06-2009, 09:46 AM
Screw em. Fight the bastards. Try to throw an elderly MOH winner in jail over flying the flag? I'll contribute to the legal expenses. I'm sure many more would also.

This

Iowanian
12-07-2009, 01:45 PM
He should plant land mines around the flag pole and tell those HOA d-bags to come and get it.

BucEyedPea
12-07-2009, 02:04 PM
Oh please. Anyone one of us get subjected to those kinds rules governing use of property in such a development that is community owned.
This has nothing to do with the Flag.

BigRedChief
12-07-2009, 02:08 PM
Oh please. Anyone one of us get subjected to those kinds rules governing use of property in such a development that is community owned.
This has nothing to do with the Flag.No one was saying that the HOA doesn't have a legal right to do what they are doing. Just because its legal doesn't make it right.

cookster50
12-07-2009, 02:15 PM
He should plant land mines around the flag pole and tell those HOA d-bags to come and get it.

This

Wyndex
12-07-2009, 02:16 PM
This is just a stupid sad story of a blooming idiot, probably some liberal wacko that wants his 3 minutes of fame.

maybe you should read the full story and see that this indeed is a story worthy of posting and the blooming liberal wacko is a decorated veteran who deserves to keep his flagpole up because there are no rules saying he can't have it other than a group of people feeling it doesn't look right in their small community

so get bent chode

BucEyedPea
12-07-2009, 02:17 PM
No one was saying that the HOA doesn't have a legal right to do what they are doing. Just because its legal doesn't make it right.

Whether that is right or not is a matter of opinion. This came up several months ago regarding an apartment complex.Most of these places, if not all, have aesthetic rules like that. It doesn't matter if it involves a flag or not. I can't have my shed be higher than my back fence living in a deed restricted community. No difference.

Iowanian
12-07-2009, 02:18 PM
I kind of doubt a man who single handedly charged 3 German machine gun nests and took 17 prisoners is going to really be that intimidated by the yard-Nazis.


BEP, congratulations on your new title as official biggest nutjob currently posting on CP.

BucEyedPea
12-07-2009, 02:20 PM
Shat the fak up you fascist who has no respect for property rights or contracts.

demonhero
12-07-2009, 02:21 PM
The guy should hire a buss-load of senior citizens, and have them take shits all over the lawn.

Iowanian
12-07-2009, 02:22 PM
Shat the fak up you fascist who has no respect for property rights or contracts.


Whoop There it is.

BucEyedPea
12-07-2009, 02:23 PM
Takes a nutjob to know a nutjob. Classic projection.

Iowanian
12-07-2009, 02:25 PM
pfpfpfppffft bbb bb bb b bb bbb bbbbbbb pppttttt ppfffffffffffffft.

Amnorix
12-07-2009, 02:38 PM
I would just put a sign in my car with the company name and contact info saying "These Anti-American business owners won't let a War Veteran fly his flag at home. Call them and let them know how you feel"
Posted via Mobile Device

It's a Homeowner's Association, not a "business".

FWIW, however, they are being stupid IMHO.

Mr. Kotter
12-07-2009, 02:40 PM
It's a Homeowner's Association, not a "business".


So what? The principle is the same....have the bumper sticker say, ""This Home Owners Association won't let a War Veteran fly his flag at home. Call them and let them know how you feel--and tell all your friends too." Better?

Dayze
12-07-2009, 02:48 PM
I'm sure he's glad he went through hell 60 years ago so he be dictated to beyover zealous HOA pricks.

hopefully this guy gets to keep his flag pole. and anyone in the community wanting an exception to the rule tc, say "Fine. just show me your CMH".

Amnorix
12-07-2009, 02:57 PM
So what? The principle is the same....have the bumper sticker say, ""This Home Owners Association won't let a War Veteran fly his flag at home. Call them and let them know how you feel--and tell all your friends too." Better?

It's an HOA. They'd change their number in a heartbeat and it wouldn't cause them any issues at all, really. It's not like they're going to "lose business" or whatever.

Garcia Bronco
12-07-2009, 03:15 PM
I live in this area...not the Sussex community, but in Western Henrico. This is the second such instance of an HOA forcing a retired Veteran to taking down his flags/flagpoles in Richmond VA. About 7-8 years ago, in Wyndham the same thing happened, and it went to the Federal courts and the Fed's ruled in favor of the HOA.

I understood the ruling, but didnt like it. the HOA just needs to let the guy have his flagpole. A CMH winner deserves that much.

I have been and my wife is currently on our HOA, and the HOA can make whatever adjustments it needs to the bylaws to accomodate special situations.

This is a special situation.

The complainers need to be taught a lesson. A man can't worry about a flagpole down the street after his house has been burned to the ground.