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Rain Man
12-08-2009, 09:50 AM
Okay, Bush ignored me with his stimulus check and Obama ignored me with his money showers and I didn't get any housing money and I didn't get any Clunkers money, but now it may be my turn. Gimme gimme gimme.

So I like the idea of tax credits for hiring, but don't make it something stupid like $500 for hiring a person. That's not going to change anybody's thinking. It has to be significant to make any difference at all.

And stop it with the lending stuff. How come every president makes a big deal out of saying "We'll loan small businesses money." I don't need debt. I don't want debt. I don't need to borrow money. I just need lower taxes so I'm not hauling an anchor around when I try to grow my business.

And what the heck does the sentence in green mean? That sounds more like a benefit for Warren Buffet than for small business owners unless I'm misunderstanding something.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/08/obama-takes-joblessness/

Obama Looks to Boost Small Business With Bailout Money, Tax Credits

FOXNews.com

President Obama on Tuesday called for Congress to send billions more federal dollars into the economy to create jobs through small business aid, infrastructure spending and clean energy investment.


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Calling the nation's unemployment a "human tragedy," President Obama on Tuesday called for Congress to spend billions of federal dollars already designated to bail out banks on helping create jobs through small business aid, infrastructure spending and clean energy investment.

In a speech delivered at the Brookings Institution, Obama tried to reinforce his commitment to tackling unemployment, which has remained persistently high despite the $787 billion stimulus package enacted in February and several other incentive programs.

"Our work is far from done," Obama said. "For even though we have reduced the deluge of job losses to a relative trickle, we are not yet creating jobs at a pace to help all those families who have been swept up in the flood."

He said about 7 million fewer Americans have jobs today than when the recession started.

"That's a staggering figure and one that reflects not only the depths of the hole from which we must ascend, but also a continuing human tragedy," he said. "It speaks to an urgent need to accelerate job growth in the short term while laying a new foundation for lasting economic growth."

The president focused primarily on help for small businesses, targeting them with tax credits to encourage hiring and unused Wall Street bailout dollars to increase lending. He also backed a one-year elimination of the capital gains tax on gains from new investment in small business stock and other measures.

The other two priorities for the president were to call for infrastructure spending for highways, railroads, bridges, tunnels, airports and seaports, and a new program to give rebates to people who retrofit their homes so that they're more energy efficient. He also backed an extension of aid and health insurance assistance for the unemployed.

It's the president's latest step to focus on jobs. He held a jobs summit in Washington last week to field ideas for turning the economy around and set out on a multi-city jobs tour on Friday, stopping first in Allentown, Pa. The jobless rate dipped slightly from 10.2 percent in October to 10 percent in November.

Critics call the latest proposals "stimulus two," though Democrats have avoided using that term.

According to an administration official, Obama plans to back using between $20 and $40 billion in unused bailout funds for increased lending. He plans to call for between $25 and $30 billion for tax credits aimed at encouraging small businesses to hire new workers, the official said.

Another administration official described Obama's speech as a small piece of the puzzle in reversing the unemployment trend.

"We don't think there is one silver bullet, one plan, one speech or a singular piece of legislation that alone will solve double-digit unemployment. And the president's speech does not represent the totality of our plans for continued economic recovery," the official said.

Despite GOP objections, the White House is considering using the suddenly available pot of money left over from the government's bank bailout to help create jobs. Officials initially seemed cool to the idea of trying to redirect that money to jobs-related programs but have changed their tone after a government report last week showed a slightly lower unemployment rate.

The president told reporters Monday there might be "selective approaches" for tapping into the money that was allocated to prop up seriously ailing financial institutions. The administration and its allies on Capitol Hill still would have to get around a provision in the 2008 bailout legislation requiring money repaid by banks or left over to be used exclusively for reducing the federal deficit.

With a tough election year coming up, Obama and congressional Democrats want badly to do something about jobs. Turning a highly unpopular financial rescue program, known as the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP), into a potentially popular one that creates new jobs has strong political appeal. Republican critics have depicted such an approach as a backdoor way of enacting a second economic stimulus package.

"TARP has turned out to be much cheaper than we had expected, although not cheap," Obama told reporters at the White House on Monday. "It means that some of that money can be devoted to deficit reduction. And the question is: Are there selective approaches that are consistent with the original goals of TARP -- for example, making sure that small businesses are still getting lending -- that would be appropriate in accelerating job growth?"

It was the clearest sign yet that the White House might be planning to argue that helping unlock credit for small businesses is in line with the original goals of the bank bailout bill and thus a valid expenditure of federal money. Job creation would be a byproduct.

The bailout program, which had an initial price tag of $700 billion, was passed by Congress in October 2008 as the nation's financial system teetered on the brink of collapse. The administration now estimates that the program will cost about $200 billion less than the $341 billion the White House estimated in August.

patteeu
12-08-2009, 10:11 AM
Don't fall for it. He's just trying to flush you small business people out and get your names on a list. :)

HonestChieffan
12-08-2009, 10:33 AM
I may issue stock in my business. How many of us who have a small business have stock?

And I am sure I may be confused, but why would I hire someone if I don't need the help?

I mean, if I add an employee, that employee must produce a marginal growth(income) that is equal to his or her cost (Wages, benefits, expences). If hiring someone results in a negative in that equasion, I have lost money. Would I, under this proposal, be dumb enough to hire someone that will result in the business earning net less just so I can get a tax credit?

Note to self: Companies that do this may be available for purchase in the near future.


And one other tidbit as a business owner.

He wants me to borrow more money? Barak, baby, see this aint the government. I know this is a confusing issue. I gots to make a profit. Every year. Being in the red is a bad thing. Owing money is a bad thing. Taking a loan and making my business less productive and less profitable wont get me on the phone to hire a new guy. And I cannot see borrowing money to hire one.

Oh...one other thing. The businesses you want to get these cool loans...why cant they borrow from traditional lenders? OHHHHHH I see, their traditional lenders looked at the balance sheet and said no cause they are almost/close to/may be insolvent?

Why then do we encourage businesses who cannot generate a balance sheet that justifies a lenders trust to go borrow more money? Will these soon to be broke businesses hire some folks as they spin deeper into the crapper?

Lessons learned putting up community event posters does not translate into being a business owner, or President.

BigRedChief
12-08-2009, 10:45 AM
I like this comment. Obama needs to show some more street fighting politics. Make people fear him. He's the POTUS. He has some power. Bash some numbskulls over the head with it from time to time.

Sharp barbs for GOP
Obama included sharp criticism for Republicans in his speech, accusing them of opposing economic (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34312987/ns/business-economy_at_a_crossroads/#) stimulus efforts and his health care overhaul while supporting tax cuts and spending that have ballooned the deficit.
He said that soon after taking office, he and congressional Democrats took "a series of difficult steps" to try to stabilize the financial system and pull the economy out of a deep recession.
"And we were forced to take those steps largely without the help of an opposition party which, unfortunately, after having presided over the decision-making that led to the crisis, decided to hand it to others to solve."

AndChiefs
12-08-2009, 10:45 AM
How about we plow that money into the deficit?

HonestChieffan
12-08-2009, 10:47 AM
Maybe this is why he took "barbs at GOP"....like hello? BUSH again Jesus H. Chrst.

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mlyonsd
12-08-2009, 11:16 AM
I like this comment. Obama needs to show some more street fighting politics. Make people fear him. He's the POTUS. He has some power. Bash some numbskulls over the head with it from time to time.

Sharp barbs for GOP
Obama included sharp criticism for Republicans in his speech, accusing them of opposing economic (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34312987/ns/business-economy_at_a_crossroads/#) stimulus efforts and his health care overhaul while supporting tax cuts and spending that have ballooned the deficit.
He said that soon after taking office, he and congressional Democrats took "a series of difficult steps" to try to stabilize the financial system and pull the economy out of a deep recession.
"And we were forced to take those steps largely without the help of an opposition party which, unfortunately, after having presided over the decision-making that led to the crisis, decided to hand it to others to solve."

LOL that's supposed to make republicans fear him?

SNR
12-08-2009, 11:21 AM
I like this comment. Obama needs to show some more street fighting politics. Make people fear him. He's the POTUS. He has some power. Bash some numbskulls over the head with it from time to time.

Sharp barbs for GOP
Obama included sharp criticism for Republicans in his speech, accusing them of opposing economic (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34312987/ns/business-economy_at_a_crossroads/#) stimulus efforts and his health care overhaul while supporting tax cuts and spending that have ballooned the deficit.
He said that soon after taking office, he and congressional Democrats took "a series of difficult steps" to try to stabilize the financial system and pull the economy out of a deep recession.
"And we were forced to take those steps largely without the help of an opposition party which, unfortunately, after having presided over the decision-making that led to the crisis, decided to hand it to others to solve."That's not fear. That's just idiocy. :spock:

"decided to hand it to others to solve." Is that how it happened, Obama? Seems to me you ran for president seeking to pass through these stimulus packages when you were president the entire time. Now that you've been doing it and you've been getting opposition, you say they just "handed" the problem to you like you were minding your own business one day and all of a sudden a swarm of Republicans mob you and hand you a problem?

HonestChieffan
12-08-2009, 11:22 AM
LOL that's supposed to make republicans fear him?

I damn sure fear him

BigRedChief
12-08-2009, 11:23 AM
LOL that's supposed to make republicans fear him?not that paticuliar time, paragraph. I'm generalizing about his approach to governing. He needs to use more stick and less carrot.

KCWolfman
12-08-2009, 11:31 AM
not that paticuliar time, paragraph. I'm generalizing about his approach to governing. He needs to use more stick and less carrot.

He would actually have to meet with them and engage in verbal discourse for that to happen.

BigChiefFan
12-08-2009, 11:34 AM
not that paticuliar time, paragraph. I'm generalizing about his approach to governing. He needs to use more stick and less carrot.He pretty much has. He's already trying to force new laws on crap the general public DO NOT WANT.

Cap n trade-nobody in the general populous wants this and yet they still are discussing going through with it, even after evidence shows the information to be fraudulent.

Health Care Reform-Ramming a bill through, again, that the populous does not want and raising the rates to boot, isn't governing softly.

Doing nothing about ILLEGALS, when that is a portion of our problems and what Americans would like to see resolved.

He's governing with an iron fist already, because he isn't LISTENING to his constituients.

KC native
12-08-2009, 11:37 AM
I may issue stock in my business. How many of us who have a small business have stock?

And I am sure I may be confused, but why would I hire someone if I don't need the help?

I mean, if I add an employee, that employee must produce a marginal growth(income) that is equal to his or her cost (Wages, benefits, expences). If hiring someone results in a negative in that equasion, I have lost money. Would I, under this proposal, be dumb enough to hire someone that will result in the business earning net less just so I can get a tax credit?

Note to self: Companies that do this may be available for purchase in the near future.


And one other tidbit as a business owner.

He wants me to borrow more money? Barak, baby, see this aint the government. I know this is a confusing issue. I gots to make a profit. Every year. Being in the red is a bad thing. Owing money is a bad thing. Taking a loan and making my business less productive and less profitable wont get me on the phone to hire a new guy. And I cannot see borrowing money to hire one.

Oh...one other thing. The businesses you want to get these cool loans...why cant they borrow from traditional lenders? OHHHHHH I see, their traditional lenders looked at the balance sheet and said no cause they are almost/close to/may be insolvent?

Why then do we encourage businesses who cannot generate a balance sheet that justifies a lenders trust to go borrow more money? Will these soon to be broke businesses hire some folks as they spin deeper into the crapper?

Lessons learned putting up community event posters does not translate into being a business owner, or President.

So which blog did you copy this from?

First off, not all debt is bad. If you can leverage operations to a point where the marginal output is greater than or equal to the cost of debt then you win if you take on leverage.

Second, there are legitimate businesses out there that can't get loans or have had credit lines slashed. Many seasonal businesses need debt/lines of credit to make it through their seasonal slow periods.

Once again you show how much of a clueless ass you are.

HonestChieffan
12-08-2009, 11:46 AM
So which blog did you copy this from?

First off, not all debt is bad. If you can leverage operations to a point where the marginal output is greater than or equal to the cost of debt then you win if you take on leverage.

Second, there are legitimate businesses out there that can't get loans or have had credit lines slashed. Many seasonal businesses need debt/lines of credit to make it through their seasonal slow periods.

Once again you show how much of a clueless ass you are.

I got it. I am clueless. You are smarter than a circus pony.

Leverage a small business sport and your on your ass in a heartbeat.

Hydrae
12-08-2009, 12:13 PM
So which blog did you copy this from?

First off, not all debt is bad. If you can leverage operations to a point where the marginal output is greater than or equal to the cost of debt then you win if you take on leverage.

Second, there are legitimate businesses out there that can't get loans or have had credit lines slashed. Many seasonal businesses need debt/lines of credit to make it through their seasonal slow periods.

Once again you show how much of a clueless ass you are.

Where do the feds get off loaning my money to other people or businesses? I don't remember that as one of the enumerated powers of the federal government.

KC native
12-08-2009, 12:45 PM
Where do the feds get off loaning my money to other people or businesses? I don't remember that as one of the enumerated powers of the federal government.

Well, if you don't like it there's always Somalia.

KC native
12-08-2009, 12:51 PM
I got it. I am clueless. You are smarter than a circus pony.

Leverage a small business sport and your on your ass in a heartbeat.

You are aware there are degrees of leverage right? There's a big difference between being severely indebted and having minimal debt.

You want to keep going or you going to run like normal?

BTW it's "you're"

Donger
12-08-2009, 12:54 PM
You are aware there are degrees of leverage right? There's a big difference between being severely indebted and having minimal debt.

You want to keep going or you going to run like normal?

BTW it's "you're"

Which would you say we are?

KC native
12-08-2009, 12:55 PM
Which would you say we are?

Who's we?

mlyonsd
12-08-2009, 12:55 PM
Which would you say we are?

Trillion is the next million.

Donger
12-08-2009, 12:56 PM
Who's we?

Mexico. No, wait, the United States of America.

Chocolate Hog
12-08-2009, 12:58 PM
You'll be paying for it through inflation

KC native
12-08-2009, 01:00 PM
Mexico. No, wait, the United States of America.

lame. go play games with disHonest in the stupid corner for 15 minutes.

Calcountry
12-08-2009, 01:01 PM
He pretty much has. He's already trying to force new laws on crap the general public DO NOT WANT.

Cap n trade-nobody in the general populous wants this and yet they still are discussing going through with it, even after evidence shows the information to be fraudulent.

Health Care Reform-Ramming a bill through, again, that the populous does not want and raising the rates to boot, isn't governing softly.

Doing nothing about ILLEGALS, when that is a portion of our problems and what Americans would like to see resolved.

He's governing with an iron fist already, because he isn't LISTENING to his constituients.To BRC, this is just a game. His side has the ball and is in third and long, but have driven deep into our territory. Fug it, if they hold the guy and get away with it, it is all good as long as his team wins.

Just keep this in mind BRC. If we stuff you out of the endzone, you lose the game.

Donger
12-08-2009, 01:06 PM
lame. go play games with disHonest in the stupid corner for 15 minutes.

Oh, lighten up and grow thicker skin, for God's sake.

KC native
12-08-2009, 01:12 PM
Oh, lighten up and grow thicker skin, for God's sake.

Perhaps you should lighten up. I thought that last post was pretty clearly a lighthearted jab back at you.

Donger
12-08-2009, 01:14 PM
Perhaps you should lighten up. I thought that last post was pretty clearly a lighthearted jab back at you.

Anyway, where does our debt fall?

KC native
12-08-2009, 01:15 PM
Anyway, where does our debt fall?

Pretty high however we've got the ability to carry it.

Donger
12-08-2009, 01:21 PM
Pretty high however we've got the ability to carry it.

What do we pay in interest on the debt alone per year? Something like $500 billion (and that was before Obama). You wouldn't like to see that decreased or even eliminated?

LOCOChief
12-08-2009, 01:23 PM
Pretty high however we've got the ability to carry it.



Again another dumbass claim "we've got the ability to cover it"? say who? you?ROFL Not according to the : Chinese, Saudies, Russians the EU.

Oh but we can probably just print more of that shit right? To bad the small businessman can't.

By the way native GFY

Hydrae
12-08-2009, 01:30 PM
Well, if you don't like it there's always Somalia.

I would rather stay here, thank you anyway. If you want to screw up a country maybe you should be the one to relocate.

Oh, and thanks for actually addressing the post.

Donger
12-08-2009, 01:34 PM
Hmmm.

May 14 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama, calling current deficit spending “unsustainable,” warned of skyrocketing interest rates for consumers if the U.S. continues to finance government by borrowing from other countries.

“We can’t keep on just borrowing from China,” Obama said at a town-hall meeting in Rio Rancho, New Mexico, outside Albuquerque. “We have to pay interest on that debt, and that means we are mortgaging our children’s future with more and more debt.”

KC native
12-08-2009, 01:39 PM
What do we pay in interest on the debt alone per year? Something like $500 billion (and that was before Obama). You wouldn't like to see that decreased or even eliminated?

Yes in the long run it needs to be reduced but there is no immediate need to reduce it when you are trying to keep your economy from collapsing. As of now and for the next few years we are going to have high debt levels but we will be able to reduce that in the future when the economy is doing better and we can afford to reduce government spending.

mlyonsd
12-08-2009, 01:39 PM
Hmmm.

May 14 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama, calling current deficit spending “unsustainable,” warned of skyrocketing interest rates for consumers if the U.S. continues to finance government by borrowing from other countries.

“We can’t keep on just borrowing from China,” Obama said at a town-hall meeting in Rio Rancho, New Mexico, outside Albuquerque. “We have to pay interest on that debt, and that means we are mortgaging our children’s future with more and more debt.”

That's so May. Deficit spending, interest rates, China, mortgaging our children's future are all different now.

KC native
12-08-2009, 01:40 PM
Hmmm.

May 14 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama, calling current deficit spending “unsustainable,” warned of skyrocketing interest rates for consumers if the U.S. continues to finance government by borrowing from other countries.

“We can’t keep on just borrowing from China,” Obama said at a town-hall meeting in Rio Rancho, New Mexico, outside Albuquerque. “We have to pay interest on that debt, and that means we are mortgaging our children’s future with more and more debt.”

And your point? Long term deficits, especially of the current magnitude, aren't sustainable nor have I claimed they are.

Donger
12-08-2009, 01:41 PM
Yes in the long run it needs to be reduced but there is no immediate need to reduce it when you are trying to keep your economy from collapsing. As of now and for the next few years we are going to have high debt levels but we will be able to reduce that in the future when the economy is doing better and we can afford to reduce government spending.

And you really think this man and this congress are going to reduce spending?

KC native
12-08-2009, 01:41 PM
That's so May. Deficit spending, interest rates, China, mortgaging our children's future are all different now.

Um, I've been pretty critical of the Chinese and how we should be taking a harder line with them.

Donger
12-08-2009, 01:42 PM
And your point? Long term deficits, especially of the current magnitude, aren't sustainable nor have I claimed they are.

Please note that he also mentions the interest on the debt.

KC native
12-08-2009, 01:42 PM
And you really think this man and this congress are going to reduce spending?

Anytime soon? No. Over his entire presidency, anything is possible.

KC native
12-08-2009, 01:43 PM
Please note that he also mentions the interest on the debt.

Is the interest not implied when you are discussing debt?

Donger
12-08-2009, 01:43 PM
Anytime soon? No. Over his entire presidency, anything is possible.

What do you think they'll cut?

KC native
12-08-2009, 01:44 PM
What do you think they'll cut?

It's worthless to speculate.

Donger
12-08-2009, 01:44 PM
Is the interest not implied when you are discussing debt?

Sure, of course, so is running an annual deficit which led to the debt in hte first place.

KC Dan
12-08-2009, 01:51 PM
Yes in the long run it needs to be reduced but there is no immediate need to reduce it when you are trying to keep your economy from collapsing. As of now and for the next few years we are going to have high debt levels but we will be able to reduce that in the future when the economy is doing better and we can afford to reduce government spending.
"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today"

Rain Man
12-08-2009, 05:57 PM
Wait a minute. If we're heading towards hyperinflation maybe I do want loans. Big ones. They're fixed-rate, right?

BucEyedPea
12-08-2009, 06:51 PM
Again another dumbass claim "we've got the ability to cover it"? say who? you?ROFL Not according to the : Chinese, Saudies, Russians the EU.

Oh but we can probably just print more of that shit right? To bad the small businessman can't.

By the way native GFY

Hey, he works for the criminal elite and he thinks he's in the boardroom instead of with the extraordinarily mad crowds who probably have more common sense and know better.

RNR
12-08-2009, 07:27 PM
If you are willing to hire in this climate hats off. I would be very worried at the price that tax break will come with~

KC Dan
12-08-2009, 07:58 PM
If you are willing to hire in this climate hats off. I would be very worried at the price that tax break will come with~Probably salary limits for yourself....