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Donger
12-08-2009, 05:10 PM
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/12/senate_rejects_abortion_amendm.html?hpid=topnews

The Senate narrowly rejected an amendment that would have restricted abortion coverage in the pending health-care bill, leaving in question whether Majority Leader Harry Reid (Nev.) has the 60 votes needed to move the bill toward final passage.

The measure, which failed 54-45, addressed the scope of restrictions on coverage of abortion services for people who receive subsidies to buy insurance. The outcome was expected, but could cost the support of Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.), who has threatened to filibuster the $848 billion bill unless abortion restrictions are tightened.

Reid told reporters earlier Tuesday afternoon he would consider other language to allay Nelson's concerns. "If in fact he doesn't succeed here, we'll try something else," Reid said.

The vote came amid intense final negotiations on the bill, as Reid aims to wrap up debate on amendments and begin a long procedural stand-off with Republicans -- possibly extending 10 days -- before the bill can come to a final vote before Christmas.

Nelson also is participating in talks to establish an alternative to the public insurance option, and said he would continue to negotiate with Reid and his colleagues on the overall bill. "People are talking," he said before the abortion vote. "And that's usually a good thing."

Calcountry
12-08-2009, 05:53 PM
Somebody needs to get the message to Harry. This turkey is stuck, this goose is cooked. The Eagle has landed, Sully sullenbergers plane is looking for a place to land. IT"S ovah dude.

Keep fuggin doubting the American People.

BigRedChief
12-08-2009, 05:55 PM
Somebody needs to get the message to Harry. This turkey is stuck, this goose is cooked. The Eagle has landed, Sully sullenbergers plane is looking for a place to land. IT"S ovah dude.

Keep fuggin doubting the American People.It's ovah? Wanna bet some real money that a health care bill passes the senate?

thecoffeeguy
12-08-2009, 06:00 PM
I think this is going to go very badly for Reid and any attempt to pass Obamacare.

RINGLEADER
12-08-2009, 06:00 PM
It's ovah? Wanna bet some real money that a health care bill passes the senate?

The only way it becomes legislation is if a lot of Democrats, including Obama, go back on their word.

So, that said, I'm sure it will pass.

KCWolfman
12-08-2009, 06:27 PM
I am wondering how many "fiddles of gold" have been promised to the House and Senate by now? These egos are massive, they don't care about anything but saving face at this point.
Posted via Mobile Device

headsnap
12-08-2009, 06:52 PM
It's ovah? Wanna bet some real money that a health care bill passes the senate?

exactly, a sheet of paper with 'Health Care' scribbled on it will pass and BO will claim it a success.. :shake:

Taco John
12-08-2009, 07:31 PM
It's ovah? Wanna bet some real money that a health care bill passes the senate?

I think "a" health care bill will pass. But no public option will pass. Democrats aren't going to be happy with it - and thus, nobody is going to be happy with it. It's going to be a piece of trash that only entrenches the insurance companies and does the opposite of what the Democrats set out to do.

So happy health care victory to Obama!

Brock
12-08-2009, 07:53 PM
Like I said a couple weeks ago, it's going to be a very empty victory. Just saving face, that's all.

Cannibal
12-08-2009, 08:00 PM
Like I said a couple weeks ago, it's going to be a very empty victory. Just saving face, that's all.

Unfortunately it is looking that way.

Reaper16
12-08-2009, 08:02 PM
I think "a" health care bill will pass. But no public option will pass. Democrats aren't going to be happy with it - and thus, nobody is going to be happy with it. It's going to be a piece of trash that only entrenches the insurance companies and does the opposite of what the Democrats set out to do.

So happy health care victory to Obama!
You're right about something. Golly-gee.

petegz28
12-08-2009, 08:14 PM
I fail to see why elective surgery, such as abortion, needs to come out of my pocket for someone else?

AndChiefs
12-08-2009, 08:18 PM
I fail to see why elective surgery, such as abortion, needs to come out of my pocket for someone else?

It's obvious. The majority of abortions are needed by poor people (who are disproportionately minorities) and have been held down by evil businesses and rich people who continue to take advantage of them by making abortions and contraceptives beyond their price range. As such, they have a lot of children and can't afford child care which makes them stay home, quit school before getting a degree, and never get financially ahead. This is just evening the playing field a bit. Why are you so selfish?

Saul Good
12-08-2009, 08:49 PM
It's obvious. The majority of abortions are needed by poor people (who are disproportionately minorities) and have been held down by evil businesses and rich people who continue to take advantage of them by making abortions and contraceptives beyond their price range. As such, they have a lot of children and can't afford child care which makes them stay home, quit school before getting a degree, and never get financially ahead. This is just evening the playing field a bit. Why are you so selfish?

Also, skin bleaching should be covered so that black people can trick white people into giving them a chance to succeed.

BigRedChief
12-08-2009, 09:29 PM
I think "a" health care bill will pass. But no public option will pass. Democrats aren't going to be happy with it - and thus, nobody is going to be happy with it. It's going to be a piece of trash that only entrenches the insurance companies and does the opposite of what the Democrats set out to do.

So happy health care victory to Obama!
Getting those excuses ready early.....

BigRedChief
12-08-2009, 09:32 PM
Like I said a couple weeks ago, it's going to be a very empty victory. Just saving face, that's all.I'm happy about this turn of events. I was not in favor of a government run health care system. So, its out the window and other reforms stay in. Say what you want but since Teddy Rosevelt Presidents have been trying to pass Health care reform and Obama is going to get it done.

And if its a superficial BS doesn't mean a thing bill, why dont the Republicans vote for it?

KC Dan
12-08-2009, 09:36 PM
I'm happy about this turn of events. I was not in favor of a government run health care system. So, its out the window and other reforms stay in. Say what you want but since Teddy Rosevelt Presidents have been trying to pass Health care reform and Obama is going to get it done.

And if its a superficial BS doesn't mean a thing bill, why dont the Republicans vote for it?Because it does not do what was promised or what is needed:

1) Bend the cost curve down
2) Insure all Americans
3) Tort Reform
4) Allow buying Medical Insurance across state lines.


This monstrocity is a joke and will cost us all infinitum if passed. God help us.

BigRedChief
12-08-2009, 09:47 PM
Because it does not do what was promised or what is needed:

1) Bend the cost curve down
What would you do? Price controls?
2) Insure all Americans
Not practical at this time. The economy needs to be in better shape. Or cut something out to make it happen.
3) Tort Reform
Yes, defensive medicene does take place but it also prevents many mistakes because Doctors and hospitals are more cautious. It saves a lot of lives. And the data I've seen say putting a cap on awards won't save more than 1/2 of 1% in costs. Not worth it for the cost in lives.
4) Allow buying Medical Insurance across state lines.
I agree. I don't understand why this is an issue.


This monstrocity is a joke and will cost us all infinitum if passed. God help us.
comments in bold.

RedNeckRaider
12-08-2009, 09:47 PM
Because it does not do what was promised or what is needed:

1) Bend the cost curve down
2) Insure all Americans
3) Tort Reform
4) Allow buying Medical Insurance across state lines.


This monstrocity is a joke and will cost us all infinitum if passed. God help us.

Nothing to add as this sums it up~

KCWolfman
12-08-2009, 11:32 PM
Unfortunately it is looking that way.

Unfortunate only if you are lazy and don't wanna pay your own fair share.

Taco John
12-09-2009, 02:05 AM
And if its a superficial BS doesn't mean a thing bill, why dont the Republicans vote for it?

Why would anyone want to enact superficial BS legislation? What kind of question is this. It's like you have no concept of what a law actually is, and the damage bad laws have on society.

Why don't the Republicans vote for it... my God... :rolleyes::shake:

CoMoChief
12-09-2009, 02:24 AM
It's obvious. The majority of abortions are needed by poor people (who are disproportionately minorities) and have been held down by evil businesses and rich people who continue to take advantage of them by making abortions and contraceptives beyond their price range. As such, they have a lot of children and can't afford child care which makes them stay home, quit school before getting a degree, and never get financially ahead. This is just evening the playing field a bit. Why are you so selfish?

How about the poor need to keep their ****ing legs shut, be smart about having safe sex, and take responsibilities for themselves. Another words. If you're 20 yrs old and work at ****ing McDonalds.....don't run out and get pregnant 4-5 times. I'm pro-life. I'm all abou taking responsibilities for YOUR own actions. I don't see why tax dollars need to fund abortions for people who can't be responsible. You don't get pregnant by accident. People like this get pregnant because they're stupid.

I dont understand how the govt isn't able to properly fund Medicare/medicade for the approx 50million that are on it, but then they want to pass a trillion dollar HC bill that's supposed to insured all Americans. Most huge programs that are designed by huge government are almost NEVER properly ran.

BigRedChief
12-09-2009, 07:42 AM
Why would anyone want to enact superficial BS legislation? What kind of question is this. It's like you have no concept of what a law actually is, and the damage bad laws have on society.

Why don't the Republicans vote for it... my God... :rolleyes::shake:I was being an sarcastic smartalek. jeezzzzz Lighten up Francis. I'll put some smiley at the end to make sure you can comprehend it in the future.

AndChiefs
12-09-2009, 07:50 AM
How about the poor need to keep their ****ing legs shut, be smart about having safe sex, and take responsibilities for themselves. Another words. If you're 20 yrs old and work at ****ing McDonalds.....don't run out and get pregnant 4-5 times. I'm pro-life. I'm all abou taking responsibilities for YOUR own actions. I don't see why tax dollars need to fund abortions for people who can't be responsible. You don't get pregnant by accident. People like this get pregnant because they're stupid.

I dont understand how the govt isn't able to properly fund Medicare/medicade for the approx 50million that are on it, but then they want to pass a trillion dollar HC bill that's supposed to insured all Americans. Most huge programs that are designed by huge government are almost NEVER properly ran.

That's because you don't support the government enough. If everyone would get together and support them in their quest to treat everyone equally everyone would be happy and well-off. Everyone from the doctors down to the janitors would be well-respected with the same possessions so nobody would be kept down.

Of course, this couldn't apply to the leaders. They need to have a little bit more (say 10-20x more) because of the stress they're put under trying to fix this wretch of a country. It only makes sense since they know what's best for us.

BY1401
12-09-2009, 09:04 AM
That's because you don't support the government enough. If everyone would get together and support them in their quest to treat everyone equally everyone would be happy and well-off. Everyone from the doctors down to the janitors would be well-respected with the same possessions so nobody would be kept down.

Of course, this couldn't apply to the leaders. They need to have a little bit more (say 10-20x more) because of the stress they're put under trying to fix this wretch of a country. It only makes sense since they know what's best for us.

LMAO

patteeu
12-09-2009, 09:14 AM
exactly, a sheet of paper with 'Health Care' scribbled on it will pass and BO will claim it a success.. :shake:

If that's all that passes, it will *be* a success. ;)

Frazod
12-09-2009, 09:21 AM
How about the poor need to keep their ****ing legs shut, be smart about having safe sex, and take responsibilities for themselves. Another words. If you're 20 yrs old and work at ****ing McDonalds.....don't run out and get pregnant 4-5 times. I'm pro-life. I'm all abou taking responsibilities for YOUR own actions. I don't see why tax dollars need to fund abortions for people who can't be responsible. You don't get pregnant by accident. People like this get pregnant because they're stupid.

I dont understand how the govt isn't able to properly fund Medicare/medicade for the approx 50million that are on it, but then they want to pass a trillion dollar HC bill that's supposed to insured all Americans. Most huge programs that are designed by huge government are almost NEVER properly ran.

Yes, they are stupid and irresponsible. AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE. Do you think some crackhead welfare mother's going to read your post and change her ways? They don't give a shit. Personally I'd rather see my tax dollars fund an abortion than years worth of welfare healthcare for some doomed, unwanted brat who'll grow up to be some gangbanging miscreant.

KC native
12-09-2009, 09:22 AM
Yes, they are stupid and irresponsible. AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE. Do you think some crackhead welfare mother's going to read your post and change her ways? They don't give a shit. Personally I'd rather see my tax dollars fund an abortion than years worth of welfare healthcare for some doomed, unwanted brat who'll grow up to be some gangbanging miscreant.

but but but but but but...my imaginary sky man said all life is precious and we have to wait until they kill someone to kill them. :evil:

Frazod
12-09-2009, 09:24 AM
but but but but but but...my imaginary sky man said all life is precious. :evil:

That's almost as good as "violence never solved anything." My ass. Life is what you make of it. It can be precious. It can also be a piece of shit.

Brock
12-09-2009, 09:27 AM
I'm happy about this turn of events. I was not in favor of a government run health care system. So, its out the window and other reforms stay in. Say what you want but since Teddy Rosevelt Presidents have been trying to pass Health care reform and Obama is going to get it done.

And if its a superficial BS doesn't mean a thing bill, why dont the Republicans vote for it?

He's going to get what done? An empty piece of legislation than entrenches insurance companies for the next 50 years? Well, as Teddy would say, Bully for him.

BigRedChief
12-09-2009, 09:31 AM
He's going to get what done? An empty piece of legislation than entrenches insurance companies for the next 50 years? Well, as Teddy would say, Bully for him.again, we will see if its an empty piece of legislation or not. And if it is its the Republicans fault for not coroperating on something meaniful other than just wanting to keep the status quo in place.

Brock
12-09-2009, 09:35 AM
again, we will see if its an empty piece of legislation or not. And if it is its the Republicans fault for not coroperating on something meaniful other than just wanting to keep the status quo in place.

Right, they should have sold themselves out just so Obama could have his legacy legislation. Bottom line, Obama made promises, and this bill won't fulfill them. Blaming the republicans, who couldn't stop whatever he wanted to go through if he could control his own party, pretty much shows me you don't know what you're talking about.

BigRedChief
12-09-2009, 09:44 AM
Right, they should have sold themselves out just so Obama could have his legacy legislation. Bottom line, Obama made promises, and this bill won't fulfill them. Blaming the republicans, who couldn't stop whatever he wanted to go through if he could control his own party, pretty much shows me you don't know what you're talking about.Your the one FOS. You make my point for me. The Republicans don't want reform. they want the staus quo. And you know as well as I do the Democratic party is a big tent party. Many divergent views under one party. To expect to get every single member to vote or believe a certain way is pretty damn hard to do. Which is what the Republicans are forcing them to do. And during that process compromise takes place and the bill gets watered down. If the Republicans wanted reform that process wouldn't be taking place.

And in the big picture since you say its so easy to do why didn't Teddy Rosevelt, Nixon, Truman, Clinton etc get it done?

Brock
12-09-2009, 09:46 AM
Your the one FOS. You make my point for me. The Republicans don't want reform. they want the staus quo. And you know as well as I do the Democratic party is a big tent party. Many divergent views under one party. To expect to get every single member to vote or believe a certain way is pretty damn hard to do. Which is what the Republicans are forcing them to do. And during that process compromise takes place and the bill gets watered down. If the Republicans wanted reform that process wouldn't be taking place.

HEY NO SHIT. Everybody knows the republicans DON'T. WANT. REFORM. That's not their problem, it's Obama's, and the Democratic party's, and guess what? They're fucking failing, bad.

LOCOChief
12-09-2009, 09:46 AM
I'm happy about this turn of events. I was not in favor of a government run health care system. So, its out the window and other reforms stay in. Say what you want but since Teddy Rosevelt Presidents have been trying to pass Health care reform and Obama is going to get it done.
but hiks
And if its a superficial BS doesn't mean a thing bill, why dont the Republicans vote for it?


What "other reforms" would those be BRC?

Who do those reforms benefit?

Who pays for it?

If this administrations intentions were to provide quality and affordable health care to more AMERICANS (not just tax payers but at least citizens of this country) wouldn't you think that they would address the fact that private insurers aren't forced to compete on a national basis? To the educated or business savvy this sounds like a simple and logical solution / create competition and reduce rates. Talent thought so, but his proposed legislation was shot down and now Mccaskill is in (go figure)

Brock
12-09-2009, 09:48 AM
I can't believe the excuses being made for the democrats here. They have it handed to them on a silver platter, and they've shit the bed in every conceiveable way.

LOCOChief
12-09-2009, 09:55 AM
HEY NO SHIT. Everybody knows the republicans DON'T. WANT. REFORM. That's not their problem, it's Obama's, and the Democratic party's, and guess what? They're ****ing failing, bad.


And you think Obama wants’ reform for you and me? That the craziest shit I have heard in a long time. There is true reform that people like myself and you would benefit from but they (polotitions both Dem and Rep. won't touch it because it doesn't gain them control or make money. Just ask all the lobbyist that Obama says aren't soliciting his admin.

patteeu
12-09-2009, 10:45 AM
again, we will see if its an empty piece of legislation or not. And if it is its the Republicans fault for not coroperating on something meaniful other than just wanting to keep the status quo in place.

The democrats have the WH and a filibuster-proof majority in Congress. Republicans aren't responsible for anything that happens in DC between now and 2010 at the earliest.

patteeu
12-09-2009, 10:48 AM
Your the one FOS. You make my point for me. The Republicans don't want reform. they want the staus quo. And you know as well as I do the Democratic party is a big tent party. Many divergent views under one party. To expect to get every single member to vote or believe a certain way is pretty damn hard to do. Which is what the Republicans are forcing them to do. And during that process compromise takes place and the bill gets watered down. If the Republicans wanted reform that process wouldn't be taking place.

And in the big picture since you say its so easy to do why didn't Teddy Rosevelt, Nixon, Truman, Clinton etc get it done?

This isn't true. Republicans have offered several reform ideas (e.g. tort reform), but offering ideas is all they can do until they win more seats in Congress. Until then, everything is on the democrats, for better or, more likely, worse.

BigRedChief
12-09-2009, 11:00 AM
The democrats have the WH and a filibuster-proof majority in Congress. Republicans aren't responsible for anything that happens in DC between now and 2010 at the earliest.you are wrong ole wise one. But, I'm not debating this anymore. In the end, bottom line, this is on the dems regardless of how Republicans have behaved.

BigRedChief
12-09-2009, 11:02 AM
This isn't true. Republicans have offered several reform ideas (e.g. tort reform), Typical Republican policy, offer reform to the wealthy and business's. Tort reform may save 1/2 of 1% of the cost of health care while endangering million of lives.

LOCOChief
12-09-2009, 11:11 AM
Typical Republican policy, offer reform to the wealthy and business's. Tort reform may save 1/2 of 1% of the cost of health care while endangering million of lives.

How about competition between private insurers on a national level do you think that might have more than the 1/2 to 1% impact that you cite?

Why haven't either dems or republicans proposed this?

This whole thing is so bogus and it's apparent that most here have NO idea.

It's a move for big govt. control and people like you will in the end hand it over on a silver platter.

Thanks alot!

BigRedChief
12-09-2009, 11:14 AM
How about competition between private insurers on a national level do you think that might have more than the 1/2 to 1% impact that you cite?

Why haven't either dems or republicans proposed this?

This whole thing is so bogus and it's apparent that most here have NO idea.

It's a move for big govt. control and people like you will in the end hand it over on a silver platter.

Thanks alot!
uhhh do your homework. I'm against a government run health care program.

LOCOChief
12-09-2009, 11:30 AM
uhhh do your homework. I'm against a government run health care program.




If I've got you wrong I apologize, I thought that you felt the intent of health care reform is a sincere effort that's being proposed on the behalf of the American people and that you feel this effort is being derailed by republicans. Again when I'm wrong I admit it and I am glad that you don't take that stance.

Brock
12-09-2009, 11:34 AM
uhhh do your homework. I'm against a government run health care program.

Yeah, because knowing your various stances on things is what's important here. The reason nobody can keep track of them is because of your vague support of what you call reform, but what the government is pushing isn't what you're in favor of. Maybe you should just tell us what you are in favor of, instead of what you're not.

vailpass
12-09-2009, 11:36 AM
It's ovah? Wanna bet some real money that a health care bill passes the senate?

If you lose are you going to pay off in obama hand-outs?

vailpass
12-09-2009, 11:39 AM
Reid's office sent me this message, I'm looking to see if he really is against abortion:


Thank you for contacting me about health care reform and abortion. I appreciate hearing from you.



In America today, concerns about our health care system have been rightly brought to the forefront of the national consciousness. Many of us are familiar with the reports of 47 million uninsured Americans, escalating prescription drug prices, and declining health insurance benefits. Unfortunately, for too many across Nevada and the country, these facts and statistics are not anonymous findings removed from daily life. As a fellow Nevadan, and as the Senate Majority Leader, I know that millions are struggling with the reality of America's health care crisis.



Amid our health care crisis, however, I believe there are opportunities for members of Congress, the President and his Administration, the private sector, and other stakeholders to work together for the benefit of the American people. It is my hope that the solutions we develop and enact will ensure quality, affordable health care coverage for all Americans-regardless of their age, income, employment, or health status.



I noted your specific comments related to health care reform and abortion. I oppose abortion except in the cases of rape, incest, and when the life of the mother is at risk. As the Senate Majority Leader and the senior senator from Nevada, I am committed to working to find common ground that brings our nation together while respecting both the views of those who differ as well as the values many of us hold deeply. Please know that as we move forward, I will keep your ideas and concerns in mind. It is my hope that we can make affordable, comprehensive health coverage a reality for so many Americans who are currently struggling to pay their medical bills, and make ends meet.







Again, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with me. I look forward to hearing from you in the near future.



My best wishes to you.



Sincerely,


HARRY REID

United States Senator

Nevada





HR:vb

BigRedChief
12-09-2009, 11:56 AM
Yeah, because knowing your various stances on things is what's important here. you can't be dissing someone for something they are not in favor of. If you don't know their position then don't be dissing them for that position. Basic stuff here.

Brock
12-09-2009, 11:59 AM
you can't be dissing someone for something they are not in favor of. If you don't know their position then don't be dissing them for that position. Basic stuff here.

Maybe you shouldn't be giving anyone the impression that you're proud of what is being "accomplished" here if you dont' want to be dissed for it.

patteeu
12-09-2009, 11:59 AM
you are wrong ole wise one. But, I'm not debating this anymore. In the end, bottom line, this is on the dems regardless of how Republicans have behaved.

You say I'm wrong without explanation and then adopt my position?

patteeu
12-09-2009, 12:07 PM
Typical Republican policy, offer reform to the wealthy and business's. Tort reform may save 1/2 of 1% of the cost of health care while endangering million of lives.

Tort reform was just the most obvious of many Republican reform ideas. Since you falsely claimed that the Republicans don't want reform, one example was all that was necessary to prove you wrong.

"Endangering millions of lives"... LMAO Increasing access to more comprehensive healthcare and all the torts that healthcare providers might commit endangers millions of lives too.

Tort reform is reform for the system, not reform for the wealthy or business. Opposition to tort reform isn't for saving lives, it's for saving lawyers' bank accounts.

patteeu
12-09-2009, 12:10 PM
uhhh do your homework. I'm against a government run health care program.

You might be against the most narrow meaning of "government run health care", but you're clearly in favor of greater government control.

BigRedChief
12-09-2009, 12:17 PM
You might be against the most narrow meaning of "government run health care", but you're clearly in favor of greater government control.In some cases, like those banks that can wreck our economy if they make bad decisions. In most cases, no.

BigRedChief
12-09-2009, 12:18 PM
You say I'm wrong without explanation and then adopt my position?thats how I roll. ROFL

Basic principle. The buck stops where? The Dems are in charge. Anything good happens, they get the credit, anything bad happens, they get the blame.

Mr. Kotter
12-09-2009, 12:26 PM
you can't be dissing someone for something they are not in favor of. If you don't know their position then don't be dissing them for that position. Basic stuff here.

Too many simpletons and demagogues can't (refuse to) distinguish between a "government take-over" and more "government involvement" to regulate and coerce what the free-market has been unable to do/to fix....despite being given at least 17 years since the last time "they" promised "they" would fix it.

They diss whoever they wish...regardless of merit.

LOCOChief
12-09-2009, 01:34 PM
Too many simpletons and demagogues can't (refuse to) distinguish between a "government take-over" and more "government involvement" to regulate and coerce what the free-market has been unable to do/to fix....despite being given at least 17 years since the last time "they" promised "they" would fix it.

They diss whoever they wish...regardless of merit.


Does the current proposal include opening state borders to create national competion between private insurers?

I've asked this question at least 100 times of the "govt' involvement" backers and never once got an answer.

The only party to propose such a thing has been the republicans.

Even your 'simpletons" should be able to grasp the idea that competition reduces costs but the majority will have none of that will they? I wonder why?

Mr. Kotter
12-09-2009, 01:41 PM
Does the current proposal include opening state borders to create national competion between private insurers?

I've asked this question at least 100 times of the "govt' involvement" backers and never once got an answer.

The only party to propose such a thing has been the republicans.

Even your 'simpletons" should be able to grasp the idea that competition reduces costs but the majority will have none of that will they? I wonder why?

Personally, I'd permit (add) such a prevision to any proposed reform. I have no major problems with it. I suspect the major objection is that companies serving predominantly small states (presently) could be squeezed out because they would likely find it difficult to compete on an economy of scale basis with companies that serve predominantly larger states.

I'm fine with the Walmart approach, if in the end consumers benefit....and said business doesn't revert to monopolistic practices at some point. That said, it's not a magic bullet; the industry and problem are too complex for such a simple solution.

Reaper16
12-09-2009, 01:43 PM
Personally, I'd permit (add) such a prevision to any proposed reform. I have no major problems with it. I suspect the major objection is that companies serving predominantly small states (presently) could be squeezed out because they would likely find it difficult to compete on an economy of scale basis with companies that serve predominantly larger states.

I'm fine with the Walmart approach, if in the end consumers benefit....and said business doesn't revert to monopolistic practices at some point. That said, it's not a magic bullet; the industry and problem are too complex for such a simple solution.
That's the inevitable endgame, though. It always is.

LOCOChief
12-09-2009, 01:48 PM
Personally, I'd permit (add) such a prevision to any proposed reform. I have no major problems with it. I suspect the major objection is that companies serving predominantly small states (presently) could be squeezed out because they would likely find it difficult to compete on an economy of scale basis with companies that serve predominantly larger states.

I'm fine with the Walmart approach, if in the end consumers benefit....and said business doesn't revert to monopolistic practices at some point. That said, it's not a magic bullet; the industry and problem are too complex for such a simple solution.

I say that you can't trust the entire thing if it doesn't allow for such competition. Jim Talent had a proposal that would allow insurers to do just that and that proposed legislation was shot down. I don't think the lobbyist like it too much, you know the ones that don't have the ear of this admin.

This so called health care reform isn't for you or I, if it was step 1 would be to promote competion as a way of reducing costs.

It's about govt control and grab for more of it, period.

Baby Lee
12-09-2009, 01:50 PM
Too many simpletons and demagogues can't (refuse to) distinguish between a "government take-over" and more "government involvement" to regulate and coerce what the free-market has been unable to do/to fix....despite being given at least 17 years since the last time "they" promised "they" would fix it.

They diss whoever they wish...regardless of merit.

Some of us simpletons have realized the meaning of the term incrementalism.

KC native
12-09-2009, 01:51 PM
I say that you can't trust the entire thing if it doesn't allow for such competition. Jim Talent had a proposal that would allow insurers to do just that and that proposed legislation was shot down. I don't think the lobbyist like it too much, you know the ones that don't have the ear of this admin.

This so called health care reform isn't for you or I, if it was step 1 would be to promote competion as a way of reducing costs.

It's about govt control and grab for more of it, period.

Where to start....

You do realize that in order to purchase insurance across state lines that you would have to dismantle the current state level regulation that insurance companies have so you could create a national regulation system right?

Baby Lee
12-09-2009, 01:51 PM
That's the inevitable endgame, though. It always is.

Simpleton. ;)

Mr. Kotter
12-09-2009, 01:52 PM
That's the inevitable endgame, though. It always is.

That's why I'm a TR fan....I oppose "bad" monopolies.

When Walmart and Microsoft engage in major monopolistic practices that truly exploit workers and rob consumers....and are a detriment to the public good, I'll be first in line to call for interventions. Despite the anguish otherwise, we aren't at that point yet with either of those companies though IMHO.

Mr. Kotter
12-09-2009, 01:54 PM
Some of us simpletons have realized the meaning of the term incrementalism.

Incrementalism is not inevitable; despite the glaring generality.

It merely requires citizens to pay attention, and hold their government accountable at appropriate times. Though it can be complicated, elections are a great way of accomplishing just that.

The ying and the yang.... :)

LOCOChief
12-09-2009, 01:54 PM
Where to start....

You do realize that in order to purchase insurance across state lines that you would have to dismantle the current state level regulation that insurance companies have so you could create a national regulation system right?

Yes as a matter of fact I do realize this.

Do you know why these state level regulations are in place to prevent said competition?

Let me ask you a question: what does competion create?

Mr. Kotter
12-09-2009, 01:56 PM
I say that you can't trust the entire thing if it doesn't allow for such competition. Jim Talent had a proposal that would allow insurers to do just that and that proposed legislation was shot down. I don't think the lobbyist like it too much, you know the ones that don't have the ear of this admin.

This so called health care reform isn't for you or I, if it was step 1 would be to promote competion as a way of reducing costs.

It's about govt control and grab for more of it, period.

Tell Rush and Sean "hello" for me the next time you call in....

;)

LOCOChief
12-09-2009, 01:59 PM
Tell Rush and Sean "hello" for me the next time you call in....

;)

I don't listen to either and I'm not a fan of either.

Instead I have been entrenched in health care for most of my life. I've paid exorbitant premiums and have been limited on the type of testing and treatments that I can receive but I'm still not looking for a handout.

LOCOChief
12-09-2009, 02:08 PM
Where to start....

You do realize that in order to purchase insurance across state lines that you would have to dismantle the current state level regulation that insurance companies have so you could create a national regulation system right?

I guess start with the facts next time bitch, this is what I have been looking for all along. Now gfy

KC native
12-09-2009, 02:10 PM
I guess start with the facts next time bitch, this is what I have been looking for all along. Now gfy

Hmmm, if you could point to something here I posted that wasn't a fact you might have some ground to make that claim. :shrug: Anyways, I thought you were for less government intervention. Which is it, less or more?

KC native
12-09-2009, 02:23 PM
I guess start with the facts next time bitch, this is what I have been looking for all along. Now gfy

Obama is now looking... 12-09-2009 02:06 PM LOCOChief your a peice of shit and I'd love to say it to your face

Really? BTW it's you're in that situation and you spelled piece wrong.

Baby Lee
12-09-2009, 02:34 PM
Obama is now looking... 12-09-2009 02:06 PM LOCOChief your a peice of shit and I'd love to say it to your face

Really? BTW it's you're in that situation and you spelled piece wrong.

It's like raaaaaaiiiiinnnnn, on your wedding day.

Mr. Kotter
12-09-2009, 02:57 PM
It's like raaaaaaiiiiinnnnn, on your wedding day.

It's like a freeeee-riiiiiideeeee, when you've already paid.

Reaper16
12-09-2009, 03:02 PM
It's like a freeeee-riiiiiideeeee, when you've already paid.
It's some gooood aadviiiiiiiiiiiiice that you just couldn't taaaake.

KC native
12-09-2009, 03:05 PM
It's like raaaaaaiiiiinnnnn, on your wedding day.

It's like a freeeee-riiiiiideeeee, when you've already paid.

It's some gooood aadviiiiiiiiiiiiice that you just couldn't taaaake.

You are all gay. If I wasn't at work and worried about internet monitoring I would find the gayest Richard Simmons pic I could and insert it here. ROFL

Mr. Kotter
12-09-2009, 03:08 PM
I don't listen to either and I'm not a fan of either.

Instead I have been entrenched in health care for most of my life. I've paid exorbitant premiums and have been limited on the type of testing and treatments that I can receive but I'm still not looking for a handout.

There's a difference between a handout, and affordable access to basic and preventative healthcare....that's become increasingly inaccessible to millions of Americans due to inefficiencies, duplicity, greed, and outright fraud from a system that routinely funds jet-set lifestyles for employees who work no harder than, are no more "educated," nor any more accomplished than peers in similar professional jobs that are compensated much less for their labors.

Using a corrupted system to fund lives on easy street, on the backs of average workers who get sick or need healthcare system is both immoral and unconscionable. No one should be forced to choose between their health and financial solvency….and yet that is the very choice far too many Americans will continue to face unless the industry is forced into reforming itself.

I don't want a government take-over, but the healthcare industry in this country is drunk on arrogance and greed....and has been in dire need of a serious intervention for a very long time.

kcfanXIII
12-09-2009, 03:08 PM
This monstrocity is a joke and will cost us all infinitum if passed. God help us.

this is the same thing the right is saying about obamacare. once again, the division of parties is going to cost americans. the democrats bill had too much government involved, and would have cost the whole nation way more than we could afford, and the republicans would rather we just let the insurance companies police themselves, which they don't do a very good job of. as is usually the case, the answer that best serves the american people is somewhere in the middle, which will never be found because too many people are worried about "winning" the debate. this is the problem with most things in washington, and the biggest proof that the whole government needs reformed.

Baby Lee
12-09-2009, 03:13 PM
You are all gay. If I wasn't at work and worried about internet monitoring I would find the gayest Richard Simmons pic I could and insert it here. ROFL

Who would have thought, it figures.

Reaper16
12-09-2009, 05:58 PM
Who would have thought, it figures.LMAO

KCWolfman
12-09-2009, 06:49 PM
but but but but but but...my imaginary sky man said all life is precious and we have to wait until they kill someone to kill them. :evil:

Absolutely. I don't know why they don't get that it isn't a human being until it can survive on its own.

Hell we should be able to slit the throats of 11 month babies as they obviously can't live on their own - especially those in destitute neighborhoods as they will have shitty lives anyway. We are doing them a favor by spilling their guts and blood quickly.
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