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petegz28
01-14-2010, 09:50 PM
Who or what the fuck else are these people going to blame?

White House budget director blames old computers for ineffective government

A big reason why the government is inefficient and ineffective is because Washington has outdated technology, with federal workers having better computers at home than in the office.

This startling admission came Thursday from Peter Orszag, who manages the federal bureaucracy for President Barack Obama.

The public is getting a bad return on its tax dollars because government workers are operating with outdated technologies, Orszag said in a statement that kicked off a summit between Obama and dozens of corporate CEOs.

“Twenty years ago, people who came to work in the federal government had better technology at work than at home,” said Orszag, director of the Office of Management and Budget. “Now that’s no longer the case.

“The American people deserve better service from their government, and better return for their tax dollars.”

The White House release that included Orszag’s comments said one “specific source” of ineffective and inefficient government is the huge technology gap between the public and private sectors that results in billions of dollars in waste, slow and inadequate customer service and a lack of transparency about how dollars are spent.

Obama is meeting with CEOs to solicit their views on how to improve the federal government with new information technology.




“Improving the technology our government uses isn’t about having the fanciest bells and whistles on our websites — it’s about how we use the American people’s hard-earned tax dollars to make government work better for them,” Obama said in a statement.

Obama had proposed the meeting in April. CEOs from Craigslist, Facebook, Microsoft, Adobe Technology and Monster.com are among those taking part.

“It’s time to bring government into the 21st century,” Orszag said. “Information technology has the power to transform how government works and revolutionize the ease, convenience and effectiveness by which it serves the American people."

Those attending the summit are to break into smaller groups to discuss streamlining government operations, improving customer service and maximizing return on IT investments.

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/75965-white-house-blames-inefficient-government-on-outdated-technologies

It's good damn thing Obama wanted all those lightbulbs replaced!!!

petegz28
01-14-2010, 09:52 PM
How many computers could have been replaced\upgraded just at the cost of the Copenhagen trip? Priorities I guess???

Bwana
01-14-2010, 09:54 PM
WOW
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/images/2007/07/26/bagdad_bob_large.gif

BucEyedPea
01-14-2010, 10:04 PM
Wow another no responsibility case. Gee, they usually work for the govt.

Jenson71
01-14-2010, 10:07 PM
Are you people actually pissed off that someone wants to update the technology in federal buildings? What the **** is wrong with you people?

Pete, you start the dumbest fucking threads.

Bill Parcells
01-14-2010, 10:09 PM
WOW
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/images/2007/07/26/bagdad_bob_large.gif

ROFL

I'm telling you. its like the ghost of Joseph Gerbels is alive and kicking in the white house propaganda ministry.

petegz28
01-14-2010, 10:10 PM
Are you people actually pissed off that someone wants to update the technology in federal buildings? What the **** is wrong with you people?

Pete, you start the dumbest ****ing threads.

Wow, you said this with a straight face? They are so worried about updating the technology they spent millions going to Copenhagen, among other wasteful trips and such.

Bill Parcells
01-14-2010, 10:11 PM
Are you people actually pissed off that someone wants to update the technology in federal buildings? What the **** is wrong with you people?

Pete, you start the dumbest ****ing threads.

The list of excuses by this administration is never ending. that was his point. it obviously whizzed right over your head young fella.

petegz28
01-14-2010, 10:12 PM
The list of excuses by this administration is never ending. that was his point. it obviously whizzed right over your head young fella.

They know the "blame Bush" tactic is dying so now they must blame inanimate objects.

Deberg_1990
01-14-2010, 10:15 PM
WHy didnt they use some of that bailout money to update their computers??

Jenson71
01-14-2010, 10:16 PM
Wow, you said this with a straight face? They are so worried about updating the technology they spent millions going to Copenhagen, among other wasteful trips and such.

First of all, why wouldn't someone who oversees the federal bureaucracy issue statements about updating the technology the federal bureaucracy uses? WHY? WHY PETE. fuck ask yourself that question. What should he do? Sit in a dark corner until the computers literally bust apart? What the fuck would you do if you saw there was a need for an update in the technology the department of such and such uses?

Secondly, of course they went to Copenhagen, you fucking moron. The United States is the single most powerful state in this era of a unipolar world. We are that uni. The fucking states that are all under us, that we do substantial trade, diplomacy, etc., etc., with all get together, and you want the United States to fucking act isolationist? Fucking Christ on the Cross, you have no concept of anything. The Copenhagen Accord and the Politics of Climate Change, whether you agree with the science or not, is economically very significant. What the fuck is wrong with you?

Jenson71
01-14-2010, 10:17 PM
The list of excuses by this administration is never ending. that was his point. it obviously whizzed right over your head young fella.

I got the point: outrage! Obama bad! Idiots in government!

petegz28
01-14-2010, 10:19 PM
First of all, why wouldn't someone who oversees the federal bureaucracy issue statements about updating the technology the federal bureaucracy uses? WHY? WHY PETE. **** ask yourself that question. What should he do? Sit in a dark corner until the computers literally bust apart? What the **** would you do if you saw there was a need for an update in the technology the department of such and such uses?

Secondly, of course they went to Copenhagen, you ****ing moron. The United States is the single most powerful state in this era of a unipolar world. We are that uni. The ****ing states that are all under us, that we do substantial trade, diplomacy, etc., etc., with all get together, and you want the United States to ****ing act isolationist? ****ing Christ on the Cross, you have no concept of anything. The Copenhagen Accord and the Politics of Climate Change, whether you agree with the science or not, is economically very significant. What the **** is wrong with you?

Yea, I am the moron who excuses 20 Congressional memeber flying themselves and their family to Copenhagen, some even had to take a military plane all by themselves (John Kerry), yet we are bitching that the computers haven't been updated.

Yep, I am the moron. You have set me straight.

petegz28
01-14-2010, 10:19 PM
WHy didnt they use some of that bailout money to update their computers??

It went to lightbulbs. Lightbulbs were the better investment.

Bill Parcells
01-14-2010, 10:22 PM
First of all, why wouldn't someone who oversees the federal bureaucracy issue statements about updating the technology the federal bureaucracy uses? WHY? WHY PETE. **** ask yourself that question. What should he do? Sit in a dark corner until the computers literally bust apart? What the **** would you do if you saw there was a need for an update in the technology the department of such and such uses?

Secondly, of course they went to Copenhagen, you ****ing moron. The United States is the single most powerful state in this era of a unipolar world. We are that uni. The ****ing states that are all under us, that we do substantial trade, diplomacy, etc., etc., with all get together, and you want the United States to ****ing act isolationist? ****ing Christ on the Cross, you have no concept of anything. The Copenhagen Accord and the Politics of Climate Change, whether you agree with the science or not, is economically very significant. What the **** is wrong with you?

ROFL

I dont think I've ever seen Jenson this mad..EVER! OMG! over updating technology issues?

ROFL

Jenson71
01-14-2010, 10:26 PM
Yea, I am the moron who excuses 20 Congressional memeber flying themselves and their family to Copenhagen, some even had to take a military plane all by themselves (John Kerry), yet we are bitching that the computers haven't been updated.

Yep, I am the moron. You have set me straight.

First of all, I didn't excuse all details you can spit out of your ignorant mouthass. Secondly, why can't 20 Congressional members go, as long as their families pay themselves? Thirdly, you made me look this up, which really pisses me off, and I find that John Kerry flew commercially. Why do you piss me off like that, pete, you ignorant buffoon?

petegz28
01-14-2010, 10:29 PM
First of all, I didn't excuse all details you can spit out of your ignorant mouthass. Secondly, why can't 20 Congressional members go, as long as their families pay themselves? Thirdly, you made me look this up, which really pisses me off, and I find that John Kerry flew commercially. Why do you piss me off like that, pete, you ignorant buffoon?

Well Jenson, I hate to break it to you but the families didn't pay for themselves. Perhaps you should keep up on the news a little better?

Secondly, we didn't need to send 21 congressional members to Copenhagen. Particularly when the country is broke. Perhaps I was mistaken about Kerry.

petegz28
01-14-2010, 10:31 PM
Here is some help for you, Jenson...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=221544

Radar Chief
01-14-2010, 10:33 PM
Who or what the fuck else are these people going to blame?

Apparently Sarah Palin. :popcorn:

googlegoogle
01-14-2010, 11:16 PM
Are you people actually pissed off that someone wants to update the technology in federal buildings? What the **** is wrong with you people?

Pete, you start the dumbest ****ing threads.

The Chinese government is run better and they probably use rickshaws for information gathering.

Taco John
01-14-2010, 11:24 PM
Copenhagen was a huge waste of time and money. They may as well have been going to a Star Trek convention for all that got accomplished there.

Guru
01-14-2010, 11:52 PM
Copenhagen was a huge waste of time and money. They may as well have been going to a Star Trek convention for all that got accomplished there.Hell, send Kirk over there. Things might have gotten done then. At least, after he screwed around with all the women.

Taco John
01-15-2010, 03:33 AM
Hell, send Kirk over there. Things might have gotten done then. At least, after he screwed around with all the women.

I seriously believe that more would have been accomplished for the environment if we sent every US official that went to Copenhagen to a Star Trek convention. It would have been cheaper, and "cost" a lot less carbon, and about the same amount would have been accomplished.

Not to mention the science being that much more worthwhile.

blaise
01-15-2010, 04:27 AM
I've been in federal buildings and have a family member that works for the fed gov't in an office. The computer equipment I've seen looks about on par with any other office.
The fact that most federal employees never have to worry about getting fired, regardless of how incompetent they are, is causing poor productivity more than computer equipment, I'm sure.

patteeu
01-15-2010, 05:31 AM
SAIC says, "k'ching!"

Norman Einstein
01-15-2010, 05:39 AM
this is an easy one. Take over which ever computer company you want (as the government) amd force them to provide top of the line computers at little cost to the gov, they can raise their prices to the consumers to offset their losses and we can pay more taxes on the higher prices!

patteeu
01-15-2010, 06:11 AM
this is an easy one. Take over which ever computer company you want (as the government) amd force them to provide top of the line computers at little cost to the gov, they can raise their prices to the consumers to offset their losses and we can pay more taxes on the higher prices!

That's not how this administration works. They won't want the costs passed on to consumers, they'll want it to come out of executive compensation and shareholder profit.

Norman Einstein
01-15-2010, 06:12 AM
That's not how this administration works. They won't want the costs passed on to consumers, they'll want it to come out of executive compensation and shareholder profit.

I need to learn how to use the controls.

blaise
01-15-2010, 06:52 AM
I need to learn how to use the controls.

I'm pretty sure he knew that and was making a joke himself.

XXXshogunXXX
01-15-2010, 06:58 AM
I work for the government, actually a contractor. I know only 2 years ago the ENTIRE navy and USMC were running shitty dells with a 500hz processor and 256 MB of ram, and only 3 years ago they just received Outlook 2003. They were replaced with 1 ghz dells and 1 GB of ram, a world of difference.

Everything moves alot slower in the government. They dont get the latest and greatest. Due to the sheer size of the network, everything must be tested, planned for years before they can move forward to implement and upgrade things.

BigRedChief
01-15-2010, 07:20 AM
In the places that I work within the government we have the latest and greatest stuff. I'm currently setting up Intelligent pass through modules for San attached arrays. I know there are few places in the world attempting to do that.

I think its more of the desktop/end user "stuff" thats behind. At least my experience.

wild1
01-15-2010, 08:02 AM
Except for some high end industry-specific equipment, it's the same at my workplace. The PCs in most people's offices are nothing special. It's probably the same all over the private sector.

How many computers could they have bought for the trillions they spent to create 0 jobs?

blaise
01-15-2010, 08:04 AM
They need better computers so they can sit on the internet instead of doing work.

Norman Einstein
01-15-2010, 08:32 AM
I'm pretty sure he knew that and was making a joke himself.


Anyone talking about this administration is surely making a joke, the administration is the biggest joke ever played on the American People!

Radar Chief
01-15-2010, 08:35 AM
I work for the government, actually a contractor. I know only 2 years ago the ENTIRE navy and USMC were running shitty dells with a 500hz processor and 256 MB of ram, and only 3 years ago they just received Outlook 2003. They were replaced with 1 ghz dells and 1 GB of ram, a world of difference.

Everything moves alot slower in the government. They dont get the latest and greatest. Due to the sheer size of the network, everything must be tested, planned for years before they can move forward to implement and upgrade things.

That’s the military and shouldn’t be confused with the government.
In the case of the military I agree, they tend to lag technology by several years.

HonestChieffan
01-15-2010, 08:42 AM
New Computers would speed up the flow of information.

GIGO.

But faster.

BigRedChief
01-15-2010, 08:42 AM
That’s the military and shouldn’t be confused with the government.
In the case of the military I agree, they tend to lag technology by several years.I've been offered some pretty big bucks to go work for the military and set up new technology and train their soldiers in the use of said tech. so from my experience they are trying to upgrade.

Radar Chief
01-15-2010, 08:54 AM
I've been offered some pretty big bucks to go work for the military and set up new technology and train their soldiers in the use of said tech. so from my experience they are trying to upgrade.

Air Force by chance? They and the Navy seem to get the most love from government spending. Army and Marines tend to get the leftovers.

Garcia Bronco
01-15-2010, 09:13 AM
What a joke. Their PC's aren't holding them back. All these use is office and adobe anyway. what a ****ing joke. In fact processor speed hasn't change in over 5 years. Intel has added cores, but the Office products still run the same and so do websites.

Garcia Bronco
01-15-2010, 09:16 AM
I got the point: outrage! Obama bad! Idiots in government!

I have roughly 11 years of professional IT experience and the excuse listed in the OP is complete bullshit.

Norman Einstein
01-15-2010, 09:17 AM
Air Force by chance? They and the Navy seem to get the most love from government spending. Army and Marines tend to get the leftovers.

But they have all the neat hand guns and rifles, right? What else does a groundpounder need?

BigRedChief
01-15-2010, 09:18 AM
Air Force by chance? They and the Navy seem to get the most love from government spending. Army and Marines tend to get the leftovers.Pretty much all the branchs. And all over the states and the world. Turned down $165K with 4 weeks vacation and 4 free trips back to the usa for a gig in the middle east. If I was single and in my 20's, I'd be all over that.

Norman Einstein
01-15-2010, 09:20 AM
Pretty much all the branchs. And all over the states and the world. Turned down $165K with 4 weeks vacation and 4 free trips back to the usa for a gig in the middle east. If I was single and in my 20's, I'd be all over that.

$165K ? ? ? Which branch of the service are you speaking of? I might want to join.

patteeu
01-15-2010, 09:24 AM
$165K ? ? ? Which branch of the service are you speaking of? I might want to join.

He's talking about civilian contractor work.

BigRedChief
01-15-2010, 09:25 AM
He's talking about civilian contractor work.Correct. I'm way too old and out of shape to be kicking in the doors of suspected taliban/Al-Quaeda houses.

But, that money being thrown around does show you the lack of the higher level tech skills within the military. But, they got the hardware and plans to do it, just not the expertise to set it up.

BucEyedPea
01-15-2010, 09:32 AM
New Computers would speed up the flow of information.

GIGO.

But faster.

"All the better to control you with my dears!" Said the BIG BAD wolf ( The Govt).

I see this as a blessing. Hope they never get things to work on this area. ROFL

ChiefaRoo
01-15-2010, 10:39 AM
Are you people actually pissed off that someone wants to update the technology in federal buildings? What the **** is wrong with you people?

Pete, you start the dumbest ****ing threads.


You're missing the point as usual.

It would be relatively easy for the administration to upgrade their computer needs. My god if they can't do that they'll never figure out any of the difficult problems that face America and the world. It's comical.

Radar Chief
01-15-2010, 10:51 AM
Pretty much all the branchs. And all over the states and the world. Turned down $165K with 4 weeks vacation and 4 free trips back to the usa for a gig in the middle east. If I was single and in my 20's, I'd be all over that.

Good, they need the upgrade.
And I understand about the travel. When I was in my late twenties I used to go around the US doing video installs in cop cars, plus service calls, and though it was semi-cool to see all of the places I’ve been and meet the people there the whole travel thing got old fast. I did that for about 2 years before moving over to engineering.

Hydrae
01-15-2010, 11:30 AM
They need better computers so they can sit on the internet instead of doing work.

NO! We don't want them muddying the waters here on the Planet! :cuss:

BucEyedPea
01-15-2010, 12:16 PM
NO! We don't want them muddying the waters here on the Planet! :cuss:

They're already here...hmmmm! That's what banyon does....post on the taxpayer's dime.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 02:13 PM
You're missing the point as usual.

It would be relatively easy for the administration to upgrade their computer needs. My god if they can't do that they'll never figure out any of the difficult problems that face America and the world. It's comical.

"The administration"?

Norman Einstein
01-15-2010, 02:46 PM
Are you people actually pissed off that someone wants to update the technology in federal buildings? What the **** is wrong with you people?

Pete, you start the dumbest ****ing threads.

You're missing the point as usual.

It would be relatively easy for the administration to upgrade their computer needs. My god if they can't do that they'll never figure out any of the difficult problems that face America and the world. It's comical.

ChiefaRoo is right, more right than he figures. The government upgrades it's computers on a 3 year cycle, probably a better turnover in technology than the typical corporations in the country.

Jenson, you need to get a hold of reality before you go running your mouth. You are off base totally here.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 02:49 PM
ChiefaRoo is right, more right than he figures. The government upgrades it's computers on a 3 year cycle, probably a better turnover in technology than the typical corporations in the country.

Jenson, you need to get a hold of reality before you go running your mouth. You are off base totally here.

The typical corporate life-cycle of a desktop PC is 3-5 years.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 02:50 PM
ChiefaRoo is right, more right than he figures. The government upgrades it's computers on a 3 year cycle, probably a better turnover in technology than the typical corporations in the country.

Jenson, you need to get a hold of reality before you go running your mouth. You are off base totally here.

Apparently technology upgrading is not the only thing the director of the federal bureaucracy wants to update.

OMG TYRANNY!

HonestChieffan
01-15-2010, 02:52 PM
Apparently technology upgrading is not the only thing the director of the federal bureaucracy wants to update.

OMG TYRANNY!

Based on his record lets hope someone other than him does the upgrade.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 02:56 PM
Apparently technology upgrading is not the only thing the director of the federal bureaucracy wants to update.

OMG TYRANNY!

Jenson, in your youth you seem to be as gullible as it gets. If the Fed Gov spent their time making the Fed Gov more efficient instead of wasting our $'s on their perks and other B.S., we would not be having this discussion.

You will come to see this in time. This is not a revelation by the Director. It comes down to priorities of the Government, the Administration and Congress.

It's pretty simple and Copenhagen is a perfect example of how we chose to spend 10's of millions of $'s on a trip overseas as opposed to making the Fed Gov more efficient techologically.

Now, had we invested 75% of the Copehagen costs into upgrading said technology we would see more efficiencies, jobs would have been created and we would be better off for it. Instead, the powers that be decided a posh trip to Europe was better for us all.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 03:46 PM
Jenson, in your youth you seem to be as gullible as it gets. If the Fed Gov spent their time making the Fed Gov more efficient instead of wasting our $'s on their perks and other B.S., we would not be having this discussion.

You will come to see this in time. This is not a revelation by the Director. It comes down to priorities of the Government, the Administration and Congress.

It's pretty simple and Copenhagen is a perfect example of how we chose to spend 10's of millions of $'s on a trip overseas as opposed to making the Fed Gov more efficient techologically.

Now, had we invested 75% of the Copehagen costs into upgrading said technology we would see more efficiencies, jobs would have been created and we would be better off for it. Instead, the powers that be decided a posh trip to Europe was better for us all.

In my four years of political science studies studying the American Government, I've come to realize a few things. One of them is this: most people don't really know what's going on. Yet they are the same people who bitch and moan the loudest about a.) the government b.) the Congress c.) the bureaurcracy d.) foreign policy.

You fit into those people, the majority. You're ignorant. You bitch.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 03:58 PM
In my four years of political science studies studying the American Government, I've come to realize a few things. One of them is this: most people don't really know what's going on. Yet they are the same people who bitch and moan the loudest about a.) the government b.) the Congress c.) the bureaurcracy d.) foreign policy.

You fit into those people, the majority. You're ignorant. You bitch.

Right, you read some books now you know it all. WTF was I thinking?? Next you will tell us how the Gov was a model of efficiency before Bush Jr.

HC_Chief
01-15-2010, 04:01 PM
It is true in some areas and not in others.

They have up-to-date servers, network infrastructure, and SAN. Their desktops are very old and on old OS builds.

One of the problems is all the red tape they have to go through to do the simplest of tasks. The saying "moving at the speed of government" exists for a reason.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:02 PM
Right, you read some books now you know it all. WTF was I thinking??

What were you thinking? Evidently, not much. Not much at all do your posts show a resemblance for thought. You are a typical citizen who is ignorant of anything that isn't spewed from the mouths of other ignorant political analysts who are reasonably decent at talking and arguing.

Do I know everything? No. But I know some. And it's more than you. So spare everyone with the "when you grow up..." speech we've all heard.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:04 PM
What were you thinking? Evidently, not much. Not much at all do your posts show a resemblance for thought. You are a typical citizen who is ignorant of anything that isn't spewed from the mouths of other ignorant political analysts who are reasonably decent at talking and arguing.

Do I know everything? No. But I know some. And it's more than you. So spare everyone with the "when you grow up..." speech we've all heard.

Yep, you are on top of the world, Jensen. Too bad you don't know your ass from your elbow when it comes to politics in the real world. Now go back to your book and let the adults talk.

BTW, repreating what you read in a book is nothing more than spewing what someone else said.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:08 PM
Yep, you are on top of the world, Jensen. Too bad you don't know your ass from your elbow when it comes to politics in the real world. Now go back to your book and let the adults talk.

BTW, repreating what you read in a book is nothing more than spewing what someone else said.

"Politics in the real world" is exactly what a Political Science degree is about, you fucking twit.

Where in this thread have I simply repeated what I read in a book, and tried to use it as my own idea? Where, Pete? You pathetic bitch of a male.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:11 PM
"Politics in the real world" is exactly what a Political Science degree is about, you ****ing twit.

Where in this thread have I simply repeated what I read in a book, and tried to use it as my own idea? Where, Pete? You pathetic bitch of a male.

LMAO! Politics taught in college is politics in the real world???

LMAO That is fucking rich. You have yet to enter the real world, my young friend.

Oh youth is truly wasted on the young.

AustinChief
01-15-2010, 04:13 PM
WHY THE F*** would you invite the CEOs of Microsoft and Adobe to this?

We should be moving away from their products and towards Open source solutions... literally saving BILLIONS.

I am all for upgrades and more effecient systems... but not if its just another excuse to waste money... which it certainly looks like it will be.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:14 PM
LMAO! Politics taught in college is politics in the real world???

What the fuck else would it be about, pete? Would it be about politics in the ideal world? Would it be about politics in a different universe? What the fuck do you know about a political science degree? What the fuck classes do you think they teach? What the fuck do you know about anything related to higher education except that it's too complicated for you?

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:14 PM
WHY THE F*** would you invite the CEOs of Microsoft and Adobe to this?

We should be moving away from their products and towards Open source solutions... literally saving BILLIONS.

I am all for upgrades and more effecient systems... but not if its just another excuse to waste money... which it certainly looks like it will be.

When has the government ever done anything efficiently?

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:16 PM
What the **** else would it be about, pete? Would it be about politics in the ideal world? Would it be about politics in a different universe? What the **** do you know about a political science degree? What the **** classes do you think they teach? What the **** do you know about anything related to higher education except that it's too complicated for you?

I don't know, Jenson. Ask the person who coined the phrase "there is what the book says and there is the way it is".

But hey, you have been in the real world for so long you can tell us who have lived through such, oh wait......STFU

Norman Einstein
01-15-2010, 04:24 PM
What were you thinking? Evidently, not much. Not much at all do your posts show a resemblance for thought. You are a typical citizen who is ignorant of anything that isn't spewed from the mouths of other ignorant political analysts who are reasonably decent at talking and arguing.

Do I know everything? No. But I know some. And it's more than you. So spare everyone with the "when you grow up..." speech we've all heard.

If you knew half of what you think you know you might know 1/4 of what most of the adults on the board have experienced. You have experienced nothing but the liberal koolaid from which ever jr. college you are attending.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:25 PM
I don't know, Jenson. Ask the person who coined the phrase "there is what the book says and there is the way it is".

But hey, you have been in the real world for so long you can tell us who have lived through such, oh wait......STFU

Ask the person who coined a phrase? That's the extent of the criticism you can give about the modern Political Science department? What an insufferable fucking moron you are. "If it's in a book, or you learned it in school, it's wrong."

Jesus Christ, how? How are you so stupid?

Norman Einstein
01-15-2010, 04:26 PM
"Politics in the real world" is exactly what a Political Science degree is about, you ****ing twit.

Where in this thread have I simply repeated what I read in a book, and tried to use it as my own idea? Where, Pete? You pathetic bitch of a male.

When you actually find the real world you are going to find out that your perception is totally off base.

Your ability to do no more than attack the intelligence of anyone that disagrees with you should point, even to you, out that something is amiss and everyone but you is not wrong.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:26 PM
If you knew half of what you think you know you might know 1/4 of what most of the adults on the board have experienced. You have experienced nothing but the liberal koolaid from which ever jr. college you are attending.

Why don't you tell him how everything you learned in your military training manuals happens exactly that way in actual combat or in the field? It might make him feel a little better.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:27 PM
Ask the person who coined a phrase? That's the extent of the criticism you can give about the modern Political Science department? What an insufferable ****ing moron you are. "If it's in a book, or you learned it in school, it's wrong."

Jesus Christ, how? How are you so stupid?

I never said it was wrong. I am just saying you are not getting the whole story and things don't happen the way the book says they do or should.

Norman Einstein
01-15-2010, 04:30 PM
Why don't you tell him how everything you learned in your military training manuals happens exactly that way in actual combat or in the field? It might make him feel a little better.

I haven't been in the military. But I'm sure your point is valid. Jenson is going to really be surprised when he finds the world is not how it was colored in the books and by the professors that taught from them. It's all canted towards the liberal approach. If all the kids coming out of college have the same mind set this country is really fooked.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:30 PM
If you knew half of what you think you know you might know 1/4 of what most of the adults on the board have experienced. You have experienced nothing but the liberal koolaid from which ever jr. college you are attending.

Tom C@sh, even pete thinks you're an idiot. You get banned from message boards and then make up new names and pretend you are someone else. Have you ever contemplated the degree of pathetic living that is? Can you comprehend that? You have no life to speak of. You are a bitter, pathetic, ignorant, loss shell of a human being with no sense of integrity or honor. Your lectures about the wisdom you have gained in life from your experience are useless.

Norman Einstein
01-15-2010, 04:32 PM
Tom C@sh, even pete thinks you're an idiot. You get banned from message boards and then make up new names and pretend you are someone else. Have you ever contemplated the degree of pathetic living that is? Can you comprehend that? You have no life to speak of. You are a bitter, pathetic, ignorant, loss shell of a human being with no sense of integrity or honor. Your lectures about the wisdom you have gained in life from your experience are useless.

Have you ever figured out that you dont' know shit about most things in life?

You are doomed after you graduate.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:32 PM
Tom C@sh, even pete thinks you're an idiot. You get banned from message boards and then make up new names and pretend you are someone else. Have you ever contemplated the degree of pathetic living that is? Can you comprehend that? You have no life to speak of. You are a bitter, pathetic, ignorant, loss shell of a human being with no sense of integrity or honor. Your lectures about the wisdom you have gained in life from your experience are useless.

Wow, well like they say, when the facts aren't on your side, attack the person.

Oh I remember the days of my early 20's when I knew everything and everyone else with a lot more life experience than me didn't know jack fucking shit.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:32 PM
When you actually find the real world you are going to find out that your perception is totally off base.

Your ability to do no more than attack the intelligence of anyone that disagrees with you should point, even to you, out that something is amiss and everyone but you is not wrong.

My ability to do no more than attack the intelligence? As far as I know, I have only attacked the ignorance (not intelligence) of pete, because he is very ignorant, but if he acknowledged this, he could fight his ignorance.

If you feel anything I have said does not match up to reality, please lay your guns on the table rather than discussing my educational shortcomings.

patteeu
01-15-2010, 04:32 PM
I think there's a little Dane McCloud in Jenson71 these days. Well, not literally.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:33 PM
My ability to do no more than attack the intelligence? As far as I know, I have only attacked the ignorance (not intelligence) of pete, because he is very ignorant, but if he acknowledged this, he could fight his ignorance.

You haven't done shit but run your mouth about things you THINK you know and put people down.

Hydrae
01-15-2010, 04:33 PM
Just curious Jensen (I don't care either way), what year is the copyright on the book you are learning from? If we are talking about the level of technology being used by the agencies out there that could be an important piece of information.

Conversely, when was the last time you took a tour through an agencies cubicle farm and took note of the technology being used by the "feet on the ground?" You know, to see what is happening in the real world as opposed to what is in your books. It is great to have a book tell you that things are a certain way but many, many times that is not the reality. This has to especially true when dealing with governmental types.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:34 PM
I never said it was wrong. I am just saying you are not getting the whole story and things don't happen the way the book says they do or should.

Like what? Please tell me. Thanks.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:35 PM
Like what? Please tell me. Thanks.

Like your ignorant defense of said Director in this thread and the justification of blowing $ on a taxpayer funded vacation for 21 memeber of congress????

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:35 PM
Have you ever figured out that you dont' know shit about most things in life?

You are doomed after you graduate.

I have fully realized I know nothing close to "most things in life." That's what differentiates you and me. One of the things. There are many. But that's an important one.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:37 PM
You haven't done shit but run your mouth about things you THINK you know and put people down.

Look through my post history and you will see many fruitful discussions about economics, politics, religion.

I put you down because you deserve it for acting like an idiot. Keep acting like an idiot, and I will keep putting you down for it. But the day you rise up to use your sense like your species was made to, I will relent, and be glad to.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:37 PM
Just curious Jensen (I don't care either way), what year is the copyright on the book you are learning from? If we are talking about the level of technology being used by the agencies out there that could be an important piece of information.

Conversely, when was the last time you took a tour through an agencies cubicle farm and took note of the technology being used by the "feet on the ground?" You know, to see what is happening in the real world as opposed to what is in your books. It is great to have a book tell you that things are a certain way but many, many times that is not the reality. This has to especially true when dealing with governmental types.

Let us apply the theory of Common Sense 101 to this matter...

If I am a business owner and my business needs to run more efficiently I can take the $ I was loaned from the bank and...

A) apply it to making my business more efficient

B) take a European vacation then cry to the bank, family and everyone else that my business is not efficient and it's causing all the problems

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:38 PM
Look through my post history and you will see many fruitful discussions about economics, politics, religion.

I put you down because you deserve it for acting like an idiot. Keep acting like an idiot, and I will keep putting you down for it. But the day you rise up to use your sense like your species was made to, I will relent, and be glad to.

Yeah well, just as my elders did when I called them idiots when I was your age, I will stand firm on the fact that you don't know shit about half of what you say. :)

Rigodan
01-15-2010, 04:39 PM
I'm 22 years old and in college and I can vouch that we haven't a damn clue

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:39 PM
Just curious Jensen (I don't care either way), what year is the copyright on the book you are learning from? If we are talking about the level of technology being used by the agencies out there that could be an important piece of information.

Please understand that in no way is my argument stemming from a statement from a Political Science textbook. That's absolutely ridiculous.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:41 PM
Please understand that in no way is my argument stemming from a statement from a Political Science textbook. That's absolutely ridiculous.

But you are the one touting you have been studying political science for 4 years. And yet you sit here defending the gross inefficiencies of our Fed Gov at the expense of things like Copehagen.

WTF are they teaching you kids?

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:41 PM
Like your ignorant defense of said Director in this thread and the justification of blowing $ on a taxpayer funded vacation for 21 memeber of congress????

It's his fucking job to say things like "We should update the technology and way we do things in order to be more efficient." FUCK FUCK

"Blowing" taxpayer money for members of Congress to go to Copenhagen calls for a different defense than "blowing" taxpayer money for members of Congress and their families to go on vacation. You make me utterly fucking sick.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:42 PM
Let us apply the theory of Common Sense 101 to this matter...

If I am a business owner and my business needs to run more efficiently I can take the $ I was loaned from the bank and...

A) apply it to making my business more efficient

B) take a European vacation then cry to the bank, family and everyone else that my business is not efficient and it's causing all the problems

Good job Pete. You are smarter than teh gubermunt!!11

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:43 PM
I'm 22 years old and in college and I can vouch that we haven't a damn clue

Smartest lesson you will ever learn. Keep studying and do good in school. It will benefit you tremendously in the long run. Though usually for not the reasons one would think. Anyhow, once you graduate you will receive Life's education. That is just how it works and you are smart to realize that now. Most, as admitted by several on here didn't realize that. Self included. I thought I knew everything and could fix all the world's problems in my youth.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:44 PM
Yeah well, just as my elders did when I called them idiots when I was your age, I will stand firm on the fact that you don't know shit about half of what you say. :)

Like what?

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:44 PM
Like what?

Like this topic for starters....

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:47 PM
But you are the one touting you have been studying political science for 4 years. And yet you sit here defending the gross inefficiencies of our Fed Gov at the expense of things like Copehagen.

WTF are they teaching you kids?

I only "touted" my studying because you spoke about how much smarter you are about government affairs than I am. Which . . . with all due respect, isn't even remotely close to being the truth of the matter, because you have the understanding of the government as much as a fucking 12 year old.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:48 PM
Smartest lesson you will ever learn. Keep studying and do good in school. It will benefit you tremendously in the long run. Though usually for not the reasons one would think. Anyhow, once you graduate you will receive Life's education. That is just how it works and you are smart to realize that now. Most, as admitted by several on here didn't realize that. Self included. I thought I knew everything and could fix all the world's problems in my youth.

You have received Life's education? HAHAHAHA. What is that like?

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:49 PM
I only "touted" my studying because you spoke about how much smarter you are about government affairs than I am. Which . . . with all due respect, isn't even remotely close to being the truth of the matter, because you have the understanding of the government as much as a ****ing 12 year old.

Yes, I know Jenson. Your years of experience with life and politics and the effects one has on the other has me beat. ROFL

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:49 PM
Like this topic for starters....

What else?

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:50 PM
You have received Life's education? HAHAHAHA. What is that like?

Still getting it. It is neverending there, Professor. But then again someone of your scholastic apptitude probably already knows this and has it all figured out.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:50 PM
What else?

That's what I thought......just keep screaming and kicking...you might move that mountain someday.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:52 PM
Yes, I know Jenson. Your years of experience with life and politics and the effects one has on the other has me beat. ROFL

This has almost nothing to do with "Life Wisdom" or whatever the **** you think you have. There is very little of anything resembling wisdom at all in your posts. Self declared "Wisdom" is ironic. Do you also consider yourself an intellectual?

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:52 PM
Still getting it. It is neverending there, Professor. But then again someone of your scholastic apptitude probably already knows this and has it all figured out.

What has your Life Education taught you so far?

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:53 PM
This has almost nothing to do with "Life Wisdom" or whatever the **** you think you have. There is very little of anything resembling wisdom at all in your posts. Self declared "Wisdom" is ironic. Do you also consider yourself an intellectual?

Sort of like your self-declared wisdom???? ROFLROFLROFL

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:54 PM
That's what I thought......just keep screaming and kicking...you might move that mountain someday.

What makes me wrong about this topic? What makes me wrong about thinking your complaints about some director of the federal bureaucracy saying that we need to be more efficient are stupid?

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:54 PM
What has your Life Education taught you so far?

That people like you know jack shit about the real world. :eek:

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:55 PM
What makes me wrong about this topic? What makes me wrong about thinking your complaints about some director of the federal bureaucracy saying that we need to be more efficient are stupid?

Your defense of the whole concept. And the simple fact that you take what he said at face value and try to isolate his comment without any aknowlegment of the broader context.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:56 PM
Sort of like your self-declared wisdom???? ROFLROFLROFL

Self-declared wisdom? No. Self-declared knowledge of how the American government works better than your knowledge? Yes.

Face it pete. You can talk all day about how wise you are because it can't really be verified. I can't give you a wisdom quiz. No one can. That's why you are relatively safe by touting how wise you are. Everyone else can think you're foolish. But it's too subjective to actually measure, so you go along with it and think you found a niche.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:57 PM
That people like you know jack shit about the real world. :eek:

What's the real world, pete?

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:57 PM
What's the real world, pete?

Something you have little experience with, Jenson.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:59 PM
Jenson, when you have to get out and work for your own living, pay your own bills, deal with the politics of the world both in and outside of D.C. you let me know.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 04:59 PM
Your defense of the whole concept. And the simple fact that you take what he said at face value and try to isolate his comment without any aknowlegment of the broader context.

My defense of the whole concept?

Here's the concept: Government departments need to update their technology and practices in order to be more efficient.

Yeah, you fucking lowlife shitforsense, I find that concept relatively sound.

Isolating his comment without any acknowlegement of the broader context? LOL. Don't stretch yourself too far out. What's the broader context of that comment?

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 05:00 PM
Something you have little experience with, Jenson.

What's it like, pete?

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 05:00 PM
Jenson, when you have to get out and work for your own living, pay your own bills, deal with the politics of the world both in and outside of D.C. you let me know.

Is that how you got so Wise, master?

petegz28
01-15-2010, 05:01 PM
Is that how you got so Wise, master?

Well, let's hear what you got, Professor? Why don't you tell us all what life is about?

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 05:02 PM
Well, let's hear what you got, Professor? Why don't you tell us all what life is about?

By life, do you mean "the real world of the American government?"

petegz28
01-15-2010, 05:06 PM
My defense of the whole concept?

Here's the concept: Government departments need to update their technology and practices in order to be more efficient.

Yeah, you ****ing lowlife shitforsense, I find that concept relatively sound.

Isolating his comment without any acknowlegement of the broader context? LOL. Don't stretch yourself too far out. What's the broader context of that comment?

God, could you make it a little easier for me? My feeble mind can barely keep up with you.

The government is and always has been ineffiicient. To come out and blame computers while deficits get ran up like there is no tomorrow on handouts to banks, auto makers, vacationing congressman, separate flights to Europe for Mrs. Obama and Oprah is the larger context. One you seem to either fail to grasp, wish to ignore or think you have a handle on.

No one would bitch at all if the guy came out and said we need to update our computers and then they did just that. But that isn't what is happening, now is it?

It's called "the blame game" and it is one you obviously fail to recognize in all your experience with politics.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 05:07 PM
By life, do you mean "the real world of the American government?"

You could have stopped at the real world. Government is a part of life. When you get into the point in your life where it actually impacts you more directly you might start getting an idea of what many of us have tried to tell you.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 05:11 PM
God, could you make it a little easier for me? My feeble mind can barely keep up with you.

The government is and always has been ineffiicient. To come out and blame computers while deficits get ran up like there is no tomorrow on handouts to banks, auto makers, vacationing congressman, separate flights to Europe for Mrs. Obama and Oprah is the larger context. One you seem to either fail to grasp, wish to ignore or think you have a handle on.

No one would bitch at all if the guy came out and said we need to update our computers and then they did just that. But that isn't what is happening, now is it?

It's called "the blame game" and it is one you obviously fail to recognize in all your experience with politics.

Jesus ****ing Christ. That's all there is to that. You can't reason with this kind of borderline conspiracy stupidity. It's clear this wasn't some big issue Obama has pushed as reason for his low ratings or not getting health care passed. What is clear is that the Director of some federal office said we should update practices and technologies in order to be more efficient. You are patheticlly stupid.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 05:15 PM
You could have stopped at the real world. Government is a part of life. When you get into the point in your life where it actually impacts you more directly you might start getting an idea of what many of us have tried to tell you.

I'll tell you about the American government. The people who are work as public officials or appointed officials, are pretty smart people, in general. Senators are pretty smart. The President is pretty smart. The decisions they make are not just arbitrary. They don't just wake up and decide "I think we should do this today!" No. There is a complex system of departments, interest groups, law, other nations, constituents, etc, etc, that affect the decisions of people.

You know so little about how a Bill is put together, how foreign policy is decided, what the bureaucracy is like. And you always will because you think you know so much. And that's your barrier.

So good luck with that.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 05:16 PM
Jesus ****ing Christ. That's all there is to that. You can't reason with this kind of borderline conspiracy stupidity. It's clear this wasn't some big issue Obama has pushed as reason for his low ratings or not getting health care passed. What is clear is that the Director of some federal office said we should update practices and technologies in order to be more efficient. You are patheticly stupid.

Yes, it is a conspiracy that the government has never been efficient. I dreamed it all up. And you are patheticly dumb.

BucEyedPea
01-15-2010, 05:18 PM
Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain!

petegz28
01-15-2010, 05:19 PM
I'll tell you about the American government. The people who are work as public officials or appointed officials, are pretty smart people, in general. Senators are pretty smart. The President is pretty smart. The decisions they make are not just arbitrary. They don't just wake up and decide "I think we should do this today!" No. There is a complex system of departments, interest groups, law, other nations, constituents, etc, etc, that affect the decisions of people.

You know so little about how a Bill is put together, how foreign policy is decided, what the bureaucracy is like. And you always will because you think you know so much. And that's your barrier.

So good luck with that.

Yea, I knew nothing about that. Especially the part about Inetrest Groups and such. I knwo nothing about decisions being made to say upgrade tecnhology infrastructres and what is involved with such decisions. Never done any of that in my 15 years of IT life.

What's your studies tell you about bribes, backdoor deals and ****ing over the voter for a few extra $'s in the campign piggy bank???

I am so glad we have you here to tell us all what is what when it comes to how politics are done in this country. ROFL


BTW, perhaps you could impart some of your tales of experience in such you claim I don't know anything about?

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 05:19 PM
Yes, it is a conspiracy that the government has never been efficient. I dreamed it all up. And you are patheticly dumb.

What the fuck?

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 05:20 PM
Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain!

Go lick your mother's cunt.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 05:21 PM
Yea, I knew nothing about that. Especially the part about Inetrest Groups and such. I knwo nothing about decisions being made to say upgrade tecnhology infrastructres and what is involved with such decisions. Never done any of that in my 15 years of IT life.

What's your studies tell you about bribes, backdoor deals and ****ing over the voter for a few extra $'s in the campign piggy bank???

I am so glad we have you here to tell us all what is what when it comes to how politics are done in this country. ROFL


BTW, perhaps you could impart some of your tales of experience in such you claim I don't know anything about?

No, you don't know that. You think everything is the result of some idiot in Washington making some idiot decision. You're a perfect example of the ignorant mass.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 05:21 PM
Go lick your mother's cunt.

Kid, I don't knwo what your problems is. Is your GF cheating on your or something? You need to chill out a little. It's not my fault you continue to want to make an ass of yourself but you need to back it off.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 05:22 PM
Kid, I don't knwo what your problems is. Is your GF cheating on your or something? You need to chill out a little. It's not my fault you continue to want to make an ass of yourself but you need to back it off.

Lick your own cunt.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 05:22 PM
No, you don't know that. You think everything is the result of some idiot in Washington making some idiot decision. You're a perfect example of the ignorant mass.

Right, I don't know it...but you do??? ROFL


And you're a typical example of a know-it-all kid that doesn't know jack shit.
Carry on with your BS, there young Jenson.

Jenson71
01-15-2010, 05:24 PM
Right, I don't know it...but you do??? ROFL

And you're a typical example of a know-it-all kid that doesn't know jack shit.
Carry on with your BS, there young Jenson.

I think I've gotten you to the point where you just blabble things you've already said. Been a nice discussion so far, though.

HonestChieffan
01-15-2010, 06:01 PM
I remember when Jenson seemed to be pretty bright. No idea what is making him behave more like a 8 year old but its sorta too bad.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 06:04 PM
I remember when Jenson seemed to be pretty bright. No idea what is making him behave more like a 8 year old but its sorta too bad.

Jenson is a good egg and a smart kid. Just typical youth.

HonestChieffan
01-15-2010, 06:06 PM
Jenson is a good egg and a smart kid. Just typical youth.

Hes out of line.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 06:09 PM
Hes out of line.

His attitude as of late has been one that yes I would say is out of line. But he is a kid and obviously an emoitional one. He might be having women troubles or something. :D

Norman Einstein
01-15-2010, 07:42 PM
My ability to do no more than attack the intelligence? As far as I know, I have only attacked the ignorance (not intelligence) of pete, because he is very ignorant, but if he acknowledged this, he could fight his ignorance.

If you feel anything I have said does not match up to reality, please lay your guns on the table rather than discussing my educational shortcomings.

You aren't attacking ignorance, you're attacking people and judging them by what your professors with their damn books. It's not your original though that we are seeing here, it's the thoughts of your professors/teachers. You haven't even been rational.

As far as matching up with reality you are still living in the world of liberal education, nothing there actually matches up with reality only the perception of those teaching. You've been indoctrinated/brainwashed by the liberal agenda. Some day I hope reality shows up at your doorstep and you recognize the error of your ways.

Those that argue here are no different than you other than the fact they have been experiencing life first hand, you have not.

I don't use guns to settle arguments, if that's your game plan you are dumber than first thought.

AustinChief
01-15-2010, 10:01 PM
Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain!

[PET PEEVE RANT]

JESUS! STOP! ... If you are referring to the 3rd commandment... you need to take a solid philology class centered around old testament texts...

if you simply meant to say... "hey I don't like it when you use a religious figures name as a curse word".. then proceed...

but PLEASE stop misquoting a commandment that apparently damn near every "Christian" gets wrong... during the time of most of the Old Testament it was blasphemy to even utter God's name... so kinda silly to make a commandment saying not to use it as a swear word...

The commandment is more correctly applied to taking oaths to God (a no no) or using God and Religion as a "front" when you truly live a less than moral life...

[/PET PEEVE RANT]

BucEyedPea
01-15-2010, 11:05 PM
[PET PEEVE RANT]

JESUS! STOP! ... If you are referring to the 3rd commandment... you need to take a solid philology class centered around old testament texts...

if you simply meant to say... "hey I don't like it when you use a religious figures name as a curse word".. then proceed...

but PLEASE stop misquoting a commandment that apparently damn near every "Christian" gets wrong... during the time of most of the Old Testament it was blasphemy to even utter God's name... so kinda silly to make a commandment saying not to use it as a swear word...

The commandment is more correctly applied to taking oaths to God (a no no) or using God and Religion as a "front" when you truly live a less than moral life...

[/PET PEEVE RANT]

No it means using the name in "vain" as in carelessly for no good reason. Like to cuss. Not if in shock! Or frightened as one is calling on the Lord for help or guidance. Jenson's a Catholic boy. I was raised Catholic, and corrected on it as I posted here. Hence my use of it is as a RC would on a RC.

AustinChief
01-16-2010, 05:19 AM
No it means using the name in "vain" as in carelessly for no good reason. Like to cuss. Not if in shock! Or frightened as one is calling on the Lord for help or guidance. Jenson's a Catholic boy. I was raised Catholic, and corrected on it as I posted here. Hence my use of it is as a RC would on a RC.


NO! DID YOU NOT READ WHAT I POSTED???? You are dead wrong on this.. by the way.. I am Catholic and my comments came from a highly regarded CATHOLIC biblical scholar (a priest who does phililogical work for the Church out of Rome)... so.. don't ATTEMPT to lecture me on this..


Honestly... please don't claim to be Catholic because you embarrass yourself and me by the false claim. The tetragammatron YHWH (Yahweh) was not ALLOWED to be spoken aloud... so the entire CONCEPT wouldn't even OCCUR to a Jewish biblical scholar at the time... get your head out of your ass and THINK about it... the 3rd commandment was about taking OATHS not about swearing.... JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!


Your reply honestly makes me want to never admit to being Catholic if this is what the laity believe... wow... where is Russ(KCWolfman) when you need him...

AustinChief
01-16-2010, 05:25 AM
No it means using the name in "vain" as in carelessly for no good reason. Like to cuss. Not if in shock! Or frightened as one is calling on the Lord for help or guidance. Jenson's a Catholic boy. I was raised Catholic, and corrected on it as I posted here. Hence my use of it is as a RC would on a RC.

... and seriously... I doubt you would "get" the meaning even if you read Hebrew... but let's give it a shot.. do you? because otherwise you are reading a translation of a translation...

nevermind... this is ridiculous if you weren't even able to read and comprehend my first post on the topic.. which, as I stated, was me parotting a renowed CATHOLIC BIBLICAL SCHOLAR.

ALL of the ATHEISTS on the board... please use this attempted dialogue to justify your arguments that religion breeds ignorance... because I think you may have a point.

orange
01-16-2010, 05:52 AM
... please use this attempted dialogue to justify your arguments that religion breeds ignorance... because I think you may have a point.

I wouldn't say that it breeds ignorance, but it certainly breeds confusion.

Here is the official Catechism of the Catholic Church description - of course, they call it the Second Commandment (a trivial error, but illustrative). It looks to me like both of you have half the story right.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a2.htm

AustinChief
01-16-2010, 06:04 AM
I wouldn't say that it breeds ignorance, but it certainly breeds confusion.

Here is the official Catechism of the Catholic Church description - of course, they call it the Second Commandment (a trivial error, but illustrative). It looks to me like both of you have half the story right.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a2.htm

yeah 2nd 3rd it all depends on how you split the commandments... which.. btw are codified in 3 different spots and in 2 different ways... and are NOT labeled 1 thru 10.. a common misconception...11 is more accurate but just not as catchy.

as per the Catechism... it is (as always..) overly broad... but even IT doesn't touch upon the fact that God's name (according to tradition) is Yahweh.. and last I checked.. I didn't see anyone say Y**** dammit.... GOD (among other terms) is not equatable... almost every TRUE biblical scholar knows and recognizes this...
as I said.. a major pet peeve of mine.. which also is a pet peeve of the greatest biblical scholar I know.. so I don't feel too bad about it.

orange
01-16-2010, 06:13 AM
Maybe "God" is an acceptable euphamism for "YHWH." The Catholic Church has never invoked the Jewish form much. I'm sure they would be happy if all references to it would miraculously disappear.

But "Jesus Christ" is without any doubt the name of God in Catholic belief. And using "Jesus Christ" as a curse is clearly verbotten.

As for oaths, Jesus said not to make any at all, just say yes or no. But like just about all the hard parts of his teaching, that has been left by the wayside by the church.

AustinChief
01-16-2010, 06:17 AM
Maybe "God" is an acceptable euphamism for "YHWH." The Catholic Church has never invoked the Jewish form much. I'm sure they would be happy if all references to it would miraculously disappear.

But "Jesus Christ" is without any doubt the name of God in Catholic belief. And using "Jesus Christ" as a curse is clearly verbotten.

I agree.. but NOT a commandment breaker... bad form and not kosher but I am a stickler for Old Testament philology. as I stated all along.. a PET PEEVE of mine.

patteeu
01-16-2010, 07:26 AM
NO! DID YOU NOT READ WHAT I POSTED????

LMAO She does that a lot.

stevieray
01-16-2010, 09:11 AM
[PET PEEVE RANT]



The commandment is more correctly applied to taking oaths to God (a no no) or using God and Religion as a "front" when you truly live a less than moral life...

[/PET PEEVE RANT]
...seems that it does apply in this situation.. telling someone have sex with their mother doesn't sound moral.

Jenson71
01-16-2010, 01:24 PM
Post 124 and 127 were totally uncalled for, inappropriate, and immature. So were all my posts using the Lord's name in a poor manner, whether God would agree it's a Commandment or not. I'm very sorry for saying such things. I hope you can forgive me.

AustinChief
01-16-2010, 01:46 PM
...seems that it does apply in this situation.. telling someone have sex with their mother doesn't sound moral.

In the broadest sense.. MAYBE.. but clearly not in the "Lord's name in vain means saying God Dammit" sense... that is just ridiculous.

The Mad Crapper
01-16-2010, 09:08 PM
Post 124 and 127 were totally uncalled for, inappropriate, and immature. So were all my posts using the Lord's name in a poor manner, whether God would agree it's a Commandment or not. I'm very sorry for saying such things. I hope you can forgive me.

Don't worry about it, nobody here takes you seriously.

SNR
01-16-2010, 09:34 PM
Horsefeathers.

Jenson71
01-17-2010, 12:18 PM
Don't worry about it, nobody here takes you seriously.

Can you articulate to us why I might find that a bit ironic?

The Mad Crapper
01-17-2010, 12:21 PM
Can you articulate to us why I might find that a bit ironic?

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Jenson71
01-17-2010, 12:28 PM
Good job.

The Mad Crapper
01-17-2010, 12:29 PM
Good job.

And my name is Jenson Brown!

Watch me now!

I'M GOING DOWN!