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talastan
01-15-2010, 09:28 AM
:clap: Way to go Martha!! :eek:

http://washingtontimes.com/weblogs/watercooler/2010/jan/14/martha-coakley-devout-catholics-probably-shouldnt-/

Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn't work in the emergency room'
By Kerry Picket on Jan. 14, 2010 into Water Cooler

How can a Massachusetts Senate candidate possibly offend 39 percent of voters in her state? If it's Democrat Attorney General Martha Coakley, she would tell devout Catholics not to bother working in an emergency room (H/T Jim Hoft - Big Government). In the audio clip below, Ms. Coakley chokes on a question from radio host Ken Pittman referring to the conscience clause. Under the conscience clause, workers in health-care environments ranging from doctors to maintenance men can refuse to offer services, information, or advice to patients on issues like contraception, blood transfusions, etc..if the workers are morally against it. Here is how Ms. Coakley handled the matter. (audio and transcript below):

Ken Pittman: Right, if you are a Catholic, and believe what the Pope teaches that any form of birth control is a sin. ah you don’t want to do that.

Martha Coakley: No we have a seperation of church and state Ken, lets be clear.

Ken Pittman: In the emergency room you still have your religious freedom.

Martha Coakley: (……uh, eh…um..) The law says that people are allowed to have that. You can have religious freedom but you probably shouldn’t work in the emergency room.

ROFL ROFL

mlyonsd
01-15-2010, 09:30 AM
And they laugh at Sarah Palin.

DanT
01-15-2010, 10:00 AM
Here's an excerpt from the Hippocratic Oath, as translated by Michael North of the National Library of Medicine (of the National Institutes of Health):

I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/greek/greek_oath.html

ROYC75
01-15-2010, 10:06 AM
Ding ! She's a winner !

Earthling
01-15-2010, 10:16 AM
Its actually kind of funny watching politicians step in pooh...Regardless of party affiliation.

jiveturkey
01-15-2010, 10:28 AM
And they laugh at Sarah Palin.I think that most people are smart enough to be disappointed in both.

The Mad Crapper
01-15-2010, 10:42 AM
Please pleas please people of Assachussetts---

Redeem yourselves and elect Brown.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 10:51 AM
And that sad part is this dumbass will win. She has no business being in the Senate.

Earthling
01-15-2010, 10:51 AM
Please pleas please people of Assachussetts---

Redeem yourselves and elect Brown.

ROFL

Chief Henry
01-15-2010, 11:01 AM
:clap: Way to go Martha!! :eek:

http://washingtontimes.com/weblogs/watercooler/2010/jan/14/martha-coakley-devout-catholics-probably-shouldnt-/

Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn't work in the emergency room'
By Kerry Picket on Jan. 14, 2010 into Water Cooler

How can a Massachusetts Senate candidate possibly offend 39 percent of voters in her state? If it's Democrat Attorney General Martha Coakley, she would tell devout Catholics not to bother working in an emergency room (H/T Jim Hoft - Big Government). In the audio clip below, Ms. Coakley chokes on a question from radio host Ken Pittman referring to the conscience clause. Under the conscience clause, workers in health-care environments ranging from doctors to maintenance men can refuse to offer services, information, or advice to patients on issues like contraception, blood transfusions, etc..if the workers are morally against it. Here is how Ms. Coakley handled the matter. (audio and transcript below):

Ken Pittman: Right, if you are a Catholic, and believe what the Pope teaches that any form of birth control is a sin. ah you don’t want to do that.

Martha Coakley: No we have a seperation of church and state Ken, lets be clear.

Ken Pittman: In the emergency room you still have your religious freedom.

Martha Coakley: (……uh, eh…um..) The law says that people are allowed to have that. You can have religious freedom but you probably shouldn’t work in the emergency room.

ROFL ROFL

:facepalm:

Amnorix
01-15-2010, 11:03 AM
Please pleas please people of Assachussetts---

Redeem yourselves and elect Brown.

Seriously. Every time you open your mouth you're saying, to me, "vote Coakley".

petegz28
01-15-2010, 11:15 AM
Seriously. Every time you open your mouth you're saying, to me, "vote Coakley".

Luckily I know you are smart enough to know that every time Coakley opens her mouth you know better.

talastan
01-15-2010, 11:57 AM
Ken Pittman: In the emergency room you still have your religious freedom.

Martha Coakley: (……uh, eh…um..) The law says that people are allowed to have that. You can have religious freedom but you probably shouldn’t work in the emergency room.

The fact that she studders in this answer should be all you need to know about her views on freedom IMO.

Chief Faithful
01-15-2010, 12:07 PM
Seriously. Every time you open your mouth you're saying, to me, "vote Coakley".

Seriously, is there anyone saying anything that would say, to you, anything other than "vote Coakley"?

wild1
01-15-2010, 12:09 PM
It's a pretty naked indication that she cares little for religious freedom.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 12:12 PM
This is a woman who thinks all the terrorists are gone fron Afghanistan because she has a sister who lives in London and she watches the Travel Channel.

Taco John
01-15-2010, 12:21 PM
Here's a woman who doesn't really comprehend the seperation of church and state, and really doesn't have any repsect for religious people at all. She probably shouldn't work in government.

Taco John
01-15-2010, 12:22 PM
It's a pretty naked indication that she cares little for religious freedom.

Apparently a lot of athiests believe that the seperation of church and state means that only athiests should be able to participate in the governance system.

Radar Chief
01-15-2010, 12:26 PM
Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn't work in the emergency room'

:LOL: And complete idiots probably shouldn’t work in the government.

wild1
01-15-2010, 12:28 PM
Apparently a lot of athiests believe that the seperation of church and state means that only athiests should be able to participate in the governance system.

"the separation of church and state" is something that normal dullards like Coakley understand very little.

Garcia Bronco
01-15-2010, 12:31 PM
It was meant to mean that religion is not a qualification to run for office.

Amnorix
01-15-2010, 12:50 PM
Seriously, is there anyone saying anything that would say, to you, anything other than "vote Coakley"?

Say whay who hay?

petegz28
01-15-2010, 12:54 PM
Say whay who hay?

Seriously though, Amnorix. You are a very intelligent person. Do you really think this woman has any business in the Senate?

Amnorix
01-15-2010, 12:59 PM
Seriously though, Amnorix. You are a very intelligent person. Do you really think this woman has any business in the Senate?


:shrug: She's bright and capable. She'd probably be a perfectly decent Senator. All the women liberals here (and there are many) are fanatical about trying to get her in, given that the Senate is ultimately a largely male-dominated club.

She's obviously had a couple of embarassing flubs, but nothing major. She's not a foreign policy wonk anyway, and Kerry would be our senator doing that stuff mostly anyway. I imagine she'd stick to more domestic issues if she were elected.

That said, she's about as exciting as lint, and nobody is all that excited about voting status quo, which she represents in a big way.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 01:01 PM
:shrug: She's bright and capable. She'd probably be a perfectly decent Senator. All the women liberals here (and there are many) are fanatical about trying to get her in, given that the Senate is ultimately a largely male-dominated club.

That said, she's about as exciting as lint, and nobody is all that excited about voting status quo, which she represents in a big way.

She's bright and capable?? Seriosuly? The woman who said she knows the terrorists in Afghanistan are gone because she watches the travel channel?

BucEyedPea
01-15-2010, 01:06 PM
It's not like a Massachusetts R is really radically conservative anyway.

Amnorix
01-15-2010, 01:07 PM
She's bright and capable?? Seriosuly? The woman who said she knows the terrorists in Afghanistan are gone because she watches the travel channel?

I didn't watch the debate, but didn't hear about the Travel Channel part, so I looked it up. This seems to be teh quote:

Brown has called Coakley naïve for saying of Afghanistan on Monday, “I’m not sure there is a way to succeed. If the goal was -- and the mission in Afghanistan was to go in because we believed that the Taliban was giving harbor to terrorists. We supported that. I supported that goal. They’re gone. They’re not there anymore. They’re in, apparently Yemen, they’re in Pakistan. Let’s focus our efforts on where Al Qaeda is.”

I agree that there might not be a way to succeed. I don't agree that they're "gone" from there. But the quote isn't humiliating ot her or whatever.

But she's a boring career politician, not exactly what I would call overly qualified for the Senate, and she's completely in the tank for status quo and the Democrats in general. Her failure to investigate Menino's email fiasco is far more troubling than some random moment in a debate that really isnt' all THAT awful.

Dallas Chief
01-15-2010, 01:12 PM
She is stupid. And oh emm gee! her supporters are even more stupider!!! - PumpkinDrublin

petegz28
01-15-2010, 01:22 PM
I didn't watch the debate, but didn't hear about the Travel Channel part, so I looked it up. This seems to be teh quote:



I agree that there might not be a way to succeed. I don't agree that they're "gone" from there. But the quote isn't humiliating ot her or whatever.

But she's a boring career politician, not exactly what I would call overly qualified for the Senate, and she's completely in the tank for status quo and the Democrats in general. Her failure to investigate Menino's email fiasco is far more troubling than some random moment in a debate that really isnt' all THAT awful.

Well, here is to hoping the People of Mass. wake up and keep her out. Even if it is for one term, the overall message needs to be sent to the Congress and the Dem Party that the People are tired of the all the bullshit being rammed down our throats. The Cons did it in 06 and to a lesser extent in 08.

KC native
01-15-2010, 01:29 PM
Apparently a lot of athiests believe that the seperation of church and state means that only athiests should be able to participate in the governance system.

No, we just don't like have government functions influenced by religion.

She's right on the money with the emergency room comment. If your religion prevents you from doing the duties of that job then find another job or find a new imaginary friend. If you are vehemently opposed to shooting people then you probably shouldn't the military. If you are vehemently opposed to abortion (or whatever medical procedure) then you probably shouldn't work in a location where you would have abortion responsibilities.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 01:30 PM
No, we just don't like have government functions influenced by religion.

She's right on the money with the emergency room comment. If your religion prevents you from doing the duties of that job then find another job or find a new imaginary friend. If you are vehemently opposed to shooting people then you probably shouldn't the military. If you are vehemently opposed to abortion (or whatever medical procedure) then you probably shouldn't work in a location where you would have abortion responsibilities.

:rolleyes:

BucEyedPea
01-15-2010, 01:30 PM
No, we just don't like have government functions influenced by religion.
You just like them influenced by atheism instead.

RaiderH8r
01-15-2010, 01:36 PM
It's a pretty naked indication that she cares little for religious freedom.

I'm more comfortable with a Catholic working in the emergency room than I am with a Muslim working at an airport.

KC native
01-15-2010, 01:39 PM
You just like them influenced by atheism instead.

Yes, separation of church and state.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 01:43 PM
Yes, separation of church and state.

Well, that is not true. Atheism is technically a religion or has beliefs a religion would have. Therefore your statement is hypocritical. I want a system based on laws of justice and fairness. Not one's religous beliefs one way or the other.

KC native
01-15-2010, 01:46 PM
Well, that is not true. Atheism is technically a religion or has beliefs a religion would have. Therefore your statement is hypocritical. I want a system based on laws of justice and fairness. Not one's religous beliefs one way or the other.

I agree with you on the basis of the system and not a religions beliefs. I'm going to disagree with Atheism being a religion so no it's not hypocritical.

Brock
01-15-2010, 01:52 PM
Who goes to the emergency room for advice on contraceptives?

petegz28
01-15-2010, 01:52 PM
I agree with you on the basis of the system and not a religions beliefs. I'm going to disagree with Atheism being a religion so no it's not hypocritical.

Atheism is a religion in the aspect that they have certain beliefs and to an extent want their beliefs to outweigh the beliefs of other religions.

I think you would be more more correct if you used "Agnostic" as opposed to "Atheist". Although they tend to go hand-hand a lot. Something I do not agree with.

Amnorix
01-15-2010, 02:02 PM
Well, here is to hoping the People of Mass. wake up and keep her out. Even if it is for one term, the overall message needs to be sent to the Congress and the Dem Party that the People are tired of the all the bullshit being rammed down our throats. The Cons did it in 06 and to a lesser extent in 08.

Actually, it's the independents who did it in '06 and '08. And it's likely the independents that will do it (if it's done) in Massachusetts. Keep in mind that while Massachusetts has 3 D's for every R, it also has something like 2 "unenrolled" (our version of independent) for every D.

Or are you saying it was conservatives voting for Obama??

petegz28
01-15-2010, 02:19 PM
Actually, it's the independents who did it in '06 and '08. And it's likely the independents that will do it (if it's done) in Massachusetts. Keep in mind that while Massachusetts has 3 D's for every R, it also has something like 2 "unenrolled" (our version of independent) for every D.

Or are you saying it was conservatives voting for Obama??

Not ture. A lot of Cons stayed home on election day in 06 and 08.

I think some moderate Cons voted for Obama. I am also hearing that 17% of Mass. Dems are supporting Brown. If that is accurate that spells bad news for Coakley as I also hear that the majority if I's are supporting Brown.

listopencil
01-15-2010, 03:35 PM
You just like them influenced by atheism instead.


Wow, lol. Do you still pretend to be a Libertarian these days?

listopencil
01-15-2010, 03:42 PM
I try not to get sucked into these arguments because they are largely pointless, but what would you tell a nun who took a job in a brothel in Nevada? That her employer should pay her to sit in a closed bedroom all day because she is religiously opposed to prostitution? It's a legal practice, she's paid to perform it. Do your job or get out.

BucEyedPea
01-15-2010, 04:21 PM
Who goes to the emergency room for advice on contraceptives?

I do! :eek: :D:shake:

BucEyedPea
01-15-2010, 04:24 PM
Wow, lol. Do you still pretend to be a Libertarian these days?

If you paid attention, I have regularly denied being a libertarian;that I was a Paleo-Conservative. We believe in less govt and less FP intervention but not as extreme as a libertarian. Get your facts right. Also get your PR skills in, a politician trying to win an election in Mass full of Catholic Irish shouldn't say things like that.

Now as to your point of a Nun working in a brothel. Why not? It's rich territory for conversions.

As a strict constructionist there are no words regarding "separation of church and state" in the Constitution. It pertains to congress establishing a Church. But we've been there and done that before. All law is based on someone's morality. That is a FACT of life. I do support trying to being as morally neutral as possible but it is not a hard line and the best way to deal with such issues is to reduce the size of govt and the public sector which keeps expanding.

You also need to look up libertarianism because it's a big tent. Many of them who are strict constructionists or even originalists will admit those words don't exist in the Constitution.

SNR
01-15-2010, 04:24 PM
No, we just don't like have government functions influenced by religion.

She's right on the money with the emergency room comment. If your religion prevents you from doing the duties of that job then find another job or find a new imaginary friend. If you are vehemently opposed to shooting people then you probably shouldn't the military. If you are vehemently opposed to abortion (or whatever medical procedure) then you probably shouldn't work in a location where you would have abortion responsibilities.She said get out of the emergency room. An emergency abortion? Has there ever been such a thing?

I know nothing about OB procedures, but let's say there's an instance where they need to kill off the baby to save the mother. Most Catholics are going to do that procedure. Yeah, it's against what the Pope said, but how many people do you know that strictly adhere to everything the Pope says or commands? My dad is a physician and a Lutheran, and he's performed procedures that are probably against God's desires and nature, but he did them anyway.

Either way, it's an inaccurate statement, and one that shows her true colors. She IS an idiot for saying it, because being Catholic is just not applicable to not being able to hold down a career in medicine because of your moral obligations.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:42 PM
If you want a small snapshot of how Coakley is doing among the people of Mass., click on this link then click in the Comments link.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/articles/2010/01/13/campaigns_brevity_shapes_coakley_image_on_trail/?page=4


It doesn't sound as if she is doing a very good job of winning over the People.

Taco John
01-15-2010, 04:48 PM
I try not to get sucked into these arguments because they are largely pointless, but what would you tell a nun who took a job in a brothel in Nevada? That her employer should pay her to sit in a closed bedroom all day because she is religiously opposed to prostitution? It's a legal practice, she's paid to perform it. Do your job or get out.

I'm not sure what that has anything to do with a religious person being allowed to maintain their individual beliefs while holding public office. The seperation of church and state isn't about only allowing athiests in office. It's about not having a state religion.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

petegz28
01-15-2010, 04:51 PM
I'm not sure what that has anything to do with a religious person being allowed to maintain their individual beliefs while holding public office. The seperation of church and state isn't about only allowing athiests in office. It's about not having a state religion.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

People have for some reason chosen to subscribe to the re-written and inaccurate definition of the Separation clause.

BucEyedPea
01-15-2010, 05:25 PM
People have for some reason chosen to subscribe to the re-written and inaccurate definition of the Separation clause.

Yeah, because of the letter by Jefferson which get's used as a substitute for the actual words. He wasn't even at the original Con-Con to fine tune the language....or if there'd have been a compromise by him.

There's various quotes by Madison on this, but often they're out of context which get used to support the other side's pov. So he gave mixed signals but he was involved in planning the Chaplaincy system in 1789 and said this:

"I must admit moreover that it may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions & doubts on unessential points..."-- Madison

ClevelandBronco
01-15-2010, 10:16 PM
Who goes to the emergency room for advice on contraceptives?

Illegal aliens.

trndobrd
01-15-2010, 10:31 PM
She's obviously had a couple of embarassing flubs, but nothing major. She's not a foreign policy wonk anyway, and Kerry would be our senator doing that stuff mostly anyway. I imagine she'd stick to more domestic issues if she were elected.



So you are suggesting that the man should work outside the Senate and the woman should stick to 'domestic' stuff? :shake:

Taco John
01-16-2010, 12:05 AM
Illegal aliens.

Illegal aliens have little need for contraception.

HerculesRockefell
01-16-2010, 12:32 AM
I'm not sure what that has anything to do with a religious person being allowed to maintain their individual beliefs while holding public office. The seperation of church and state isn't about only allowing athiests in office. It's about not having a state religion.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Actually if you go back and looked at which Members of Congress supported the addition of the Establishment Clause to the Constitution, they were actually MoC from states who had an official state religions at the time. While those opposed to the addition of the Establishment Clause, were from states that had no official religion.

Obviously having no state-sanctioned religion is how the Establishment Clause is interpreted today, but one could argue that the Establishment Clause was put into the 1st Amendment as a check on Congress' ability to stay out of a states' decision on whether or not to have an official religion.

Taco John
01-16-2010, 12:42 AM
Actually if you go back and looked at which Members of Congress supported the addition of the Establishment Clause to the Constitution, they were actually MoC from states who had an official state religions at the time. While those opposed to the addition of the Establishment Clause, were from states that had no official religion.

Obviously having no state-sanctioned religion is how the Establishment Clause is interpreted today, but one could argue that the Establishment Clause was put into the 1st Amendment as a check on Congress' ability to stay out of a states' decision on whether or not to have an official religion.


That's very interesting and a perspective on the establishment clause that I've never really considered before. You truly learn something new every day.

mlyonsd
01-16-2010, 07:05 AM
So you are suggesting that the man should work outside the Senate and the woman should stick to 'domestic' stuff? :shake:

ROFL

petegz28
01-16-2010, 08:31 AM
"In response to the flap, Coakley spokesman Corey Welford said, “Martha Coakley supports current Massachusetts law, which protects the rights of individual doctors, nurses and other health-care providers to not participate in providing abortion or sterilization if they object to these medical procedures on moral or religious grounds.”

LMAO....this gal reall is a piece of ...

RNR
01-16-2010, 08:46 AM
Illegal aliens.

Please refer to them as undocumented democrats so not to offend. And on the subject of undocumented democrats, from those I have encountered it would appear contraception never crosses their minds~

HerculesRockefell
01-16-2010, 11:09 AM
Please refer to them as undocumented democrats so not to offend.

I heard a Dem Congressman call them "potential Americans" once, I think we should use that going forward.