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RINGLEADER
01-18-2010, 04:59 PM
The march over the cliff continues -- I'm really starting to believe that the Dems would pass just about anything with the words "health" and "reform" in them at this point. While the White House is pushing for quick acceptance by the House of the Senate plan I wouldn't be so sure that the bill can pass in the House. Even if most of the Stupak followers decide (after seeing "Ted Kennedy's seat" go to a Republican) to suddenly support the measure after previously saying they wouldn't the bill has a margin of error of three votes. Actually 1 vote when you consider the GOP'er who voted for it last time likely wouldn't and one of the Dems who was previously a supporter is not longer there.

What's amazing to me is that even though Coakley ran a bad campaign the Dem power base still refuses to believe that any of their actions are responsible for this change in the electorate's mood. It's almost comical. Then again, they don't really care anymore -- they can taste the control that comes with health care "reform" and can't help themselves anymore.

Story follows...

With Democrats increasingly anxious about the special election in Massachusetts on Tuesday and what it will mean for their big health care legislation, the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, told reporters in California Monday that the legislation would move forward not matter what.

“Let’s remove all doubt,” Ms. Pelosi said. “We will have health care one way or another.”

Ms. Pelosi acknowledged that the path forward could change if the Democrat in the Massachusetts race, Martha Coakley, loses.

“Certainly the dynamic will change depending on what happens in Massachusetts,” Ms. Pelosi said. “Just the question of how we would proceed. But it doesn’t mean we won’t have a health care bill.”

The speaker also slammed the Republican in the Massachusetts race, Scott Brown, and indeed all Congressional Republicans, for trying to block the legislation.

“I heard the candidate in Massachusetts, the Republican candidate, say ‘Let’s go back to the drawing board,’” Ms. Pelosi said.

She continued at length:

The drawing board for the Republican party on health care is to tear it up and throw it away and shred it and never revisit it. This is the opportunity of a generation. If this opportunity is not realized, there won’t be health care for all Americans.

There is no back to the drawing board. The Republicans in Congress have said we will kill health care reform. They weren’t for Social Security. They weren’t for Medicare. And they aren’t for health care for all Americans. They are the handmaidens of the insurance companies and the American people need to understand that. But rather than focus on them we’d rather focus on what is in our bill. We will have legislation that removes all doubt that health care is a right not a privilege, that we will no longer be operating on the playing field of the insurance companies but they will be on the playing field of the American people.

It’s a very exciting prospect. I have confidence about tomorrow, because I am a grassroots organizer, because it doesn’t matter what the polls say, it matters who votes.

She added: “Let’s remove all doubt that we will have health care one way or another. Back to the drawing board means a great big zero for the American people.”

Ms. Pelosi’s comments came as Democrats are considering contingency plans if Ms. Coakley loses on Tuesday and the Democrats are deprived the crucial 60th vote needed to defeat Republican filibusters in the Senate and advance the health care bill.

One possibility is to ask House Democrats to approve the Senate version of the health care legislation, sending it directly to President Obama for his signature and side-stepping the need for another Senate vote.

http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/18/pelosi-mass-election-wont-stop-health-bill/#more-19173

RINGLEADER
01-18-2010, 05:11 PM
Just saw a Dem talking head blame the whole fiasco of health care on...George W Bush.

What's great is they've not only tried to take the country so far to the left that they've succeeded in scaring normal lib supporters, they've also completely tarnished whatever believe some independents may have had that Dems could be believed. The health care bill (and the bailouts and takeovers) have shown America what the Dem agenda truly is and they're reacting with revulsion.

Calcountry
01-18-2010, 06:02 PM
They pulled Bush out to do some face time for Haiti, so that means we can blame him for Haiti. Just ask Danny Glover. We should have got dat shit right in copenhagen. damn.

RINGLEADER
01-18-2010, 06:31 PM
Obama's new tact after a Brown victory won't be to do what Clinton did (recognize the realities of what happened) and it won't be to listen to what the voters have been saying since the summer.

Obama's going to FIGHT!

This administration doesn't seem to realize that they're not fighting against the Republicans and what the GOP wants -- they're fighting against the American people and what they want.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/31629_Page2.html

Donger
01-18-2010, 07:25 PM
Obama's new tact after a Brown victory won't be to do what Clinton did (recognize the realities of what happened) and it won't be to listen to what the voters have been saying since the summer.

Obama's going to FIGHT!

This administration doesn't seem to realize that they're not fighting against the Republicans and what the GOP wants -- they're fighting against the American people and what they want.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/31629_Page2.html

Arrogance. Now, it's coupled with political survival? Scary stuff.

patteeu
01-18-2010, 07:50 PM
They pulled Bush out to do some face time for Haiti, so that means we can blame him for Haiti. Just ask Danny Glover. We should have got dat shit right in copenhagen. damn.

Bush should have punched Obama in the kisser when he was in the WH the other day. It's a testament to the fact that he's a bigger man that he's willing to step in and help out even after all the scapegoating his predecessor has done to him. It's worth noting that he didn't treat Clinton that way.

wild1
01-18-2010, 07:54 PM
Obama's new tact after a Brown victory won't be to do what Clinton did (recognize the realities of what happened) and it won't be to listen to what the voters have been saying since the summer.

Obama's going to FIGHT!

This administration doesn't seem to realize that they're not fighting against the Republicans and what the GOP wants -- they're fighting against the American people and what they want.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/31629_Page2.html

You didn't really expect him to admit that he might have shortcomings or make mistakes, did you?

BucEyedPea
01-18-2010, 08:03 PM
The Dems having a Death Wish should be a good thing no?

BucEyedPea
01-18-2010, 08:04 PM
.
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BucEyedPea
01-18-2010, 08:05 PM
Obama's new tact after a Brown victory won't be to do what Clinton did (recognize the realities of what happened) and it won't be to listen to what the voters have been saying since the summer.

Obama's going to FIGHT!

This administration doesn't seem to realize that they're not fighting against the Republicans and what the GOP wants -- they're fighting against the American people and what they want.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/31629_Page2.html
Like a good Bolshevik!

ROYC75
01-18-2010, 08:15 PM
Start all over Nancy, includes the Republicans and get it right, and not wrong ( to the left ) .

RINGLEADER
01-18-2010, 09:39 PM
You didn't really expect him to admit that he might have shortcomings or make mistakes, did you?

Well the Republicans better get on the ball and realize that a lot of people who voted for Obama need to know that it's okay to admit the mistake -- a mistake born from outright lies. The GOP should be tying independents to a nationalized agenda so they can activate as Republicans in the same way they are in MA.

RINGLEADER
01-18-2010, 09:54 PM
Just talked to a Dem strategist who's in a position to know things and who helped explain the seemingly out of touch statements today by Pelosi and Obama.

According to this person one of the key strategies that has, to date, successfully kept the Dems moving in lock-step has been to cast health care reform -- in some form -- as an inevitability. The problem that is now starting to creep in according to a friend I talk to frequently is the sense that it no longer is inevitable. That a Brown win will make it very easy for the aura that Obama and Reid and Pelosi have worked so hard to craft in the last couple months to be challenged by a lot of Dem congresspeople who don't want to be tied to this legislation.

That is why you're reading the stories about Pelosi guaranteeing that some form of health care will pass and Obama coming out saying he'll fight harder. They're trying to keep their caucus together in the belief that it is all done except for the signing ceremony when, in actuality, there are very real concerns that the options that have been bandied about will sink the party even further.

This strategist told me just a few minutes ago that if Brown wins by big numbers they won't be able to delay his seating to shove the bill through. He thought that the best course of action would be to try and pick off a Republican but the concern right now among those on the left is that a MA loss will prompt some moderate Dem to hold a press conference or let it leak that the party should start over. If you hear rumors or outright calls from Dems advocating they walk away from the bill on Wednesday it will be over and that's a sentiment that the leadership is trying mightily to avoid tonight.

Taco John
01-18-2010, 10:57 PM
If Mass votes the Democrats out of a senate seat, there are going to be a lot of soiled pants in both houses of congress. Good luck finding the votes you need in THAT environment, Nance.

Mile High Mania
01-19-2010, 04:28 AM
If Mass votes the Democrats out of a senate seat, there are going to be a lot of soiled pants in both houses of congress. Good luck finding the votes you need in THAT environment, Nance.

Today is the day... I don't live in MA, but I'm hoping for great political drama today.

Guru
01-19-2010, 04:33 AM
Today is the day... I don't live in MA, but I'm hoping for great political drama today.Maybe Mathews will have another tingle.

blaise
01-19-2010, 07:39 AM
It's almost time to release some more torture memos.

The Mad Crapper
01-19-2010, 08:01 AM
Bush should have punched Obama in the kisser when he was in the WH the other day. It's a testament to the fact that he's a bigger man that he's willing to step in and help out even after all the scapegoating his predecessor has done to him. It's worth noting that he didn't treat Clinton that way.

B.O. is a piece of shit. OK? He is a greasy slimebag who crawled out from under a rock in Chicago. He was shit out of Mayor Daley's ass. He is a horrible human being.

Bwana
01-19-2010, 08:05 AM
This crazy old hide is sooooooo out of touch with the American people........unreal.

blaise
01-19-2010, 08:20 AM
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http://famousmonstersoffilmland.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/they-live.jpg

This is what I always think of when I see her. I couldn't find a picture of one of the female ones.

morphius
01-19-2010, 08:22 AM
If Mass votes the Democrats out of a senate seat, there are going to be a lot of soiled pants in both houses of congress. Good luck finding the votes you need in THAT environment, Nance.
I think we might need get an x-ray on Teddy's grave, it would be fun to watch the "Lion of the Senate" turn over in his grave.

The Mad Crapper
01-19-2010, 08:35 AM
I think we might need get an x-ray on Teddy's grave, it would be fun to watch the "Lion of the Senate" turn over in his grave.

"Let's do it for Teddy!"

ROFL

RINGLEADER
01-19-2010, 10:19 AM
Although making this a race is a feat in its own right I won't gloat until Brown actually wins.

And according to a few reports it looks like if the Dems lose today there are a group of Dems who are going to come out and publicly call for killing the current bill and starting over with the points that there is public support for and agreement with Republicans.

Which is the Obama, Pelosi, Reid nightmare -- that we'll have health care reform that doesn't give them control over the system (which is what this has been about from day one).

So look for a block of moderate Dems to start floating ideas if Brown wins. The push towards voting before Brown is seated repulses too many in the Dem party to happen according to the guy I talk to and the idea of reconilliation will produce a product that is even more flawed than what this has become. Wisely, some Dems are finally realizing that the only way to innoculate themselves isn't to pass ANY health care bill but to pass ANY health care bill that they can get Republicans to also support.

mlyonsd
01-19-2010, 01:13 PM
Wisely, some Dems are finally realizing that the only way to innoculate themselves isn't to pass ANY health care bill but to pass ANY health care bill that they can get Republicans to also support.

You can bet Nelson is rooting big time for Brown.

vailpass
01-19-2010, 01:15 PM
They pulled Bush out to do some face time for Haiti, so that means we can blame him for Haiti. Just ask Danny Glover. We should have got dat shit right in copenhagen. damn.

Yet another example of actors thinking that because they play make believe real well they are qualified to speak on real world issues. Fugging hilarious.

RJ
01-19-2010, 01:20 PM
The health reform plan does seem a bit watered down. In it's current form, we all get a Walmart Buy One, Get One Free prescription coupon and a complimentary box of band aids. Our Congress can bask in the satisfaction of a job well done.

Inspector
01-19-2010, 01:50 PM
If Brown wins, there will be hope and change I can believe in!

BigRedChief
01-19-2010, 01:53 PM
Bush should have punched Obama in the kisser when he was in the WH the other day. It's a testament to the fact that he's a bigger man that he's willing to step in and help out even after all the scapegoating his predecessor has done to him. It's worth noting that he didn't treat Clinton that way.uhhh thats because Clinton left a $225 billion surplus and no wars and no recession. WTF did Bush have to bitch about? That he didn't recieve the most votes but was elected anyway...oh right thats Gore.

wild1
01-19-2010, 02:07 PM
Diversion in progress

Guru
01-19-2010, 02:53 PM
Although making this a race is a feat in its own right I won't gloat until Brown actually wins.

And according to a few reports it looks like if the Dems lose today there are a group of Dems who are going to come out and publicly call for killing the current bill and starting over with the points that there is public support for and agreement with Republicans.

Which is the Obama, Pelosi, Reid nightmare -- that we'll have health care reform that doesn't give them control over the system (which is what this has been about from day one).

So look for a block of moderate Dems to start floating ideas if Brown wins. The push towards voting before Brown is seated repulses too many in the Dem party to happen according to the guy I talk to and the idea of reconilliation will produce a product that is even more flawed than what this has become. Wisely, some Dems are finally realizing that the only way to innoculate themselves isn't to pass ANY health care bill but to pass ANY health care bill that they can get Republicans to also support.That is the way it is supposed to be anyway.

The Mad Crapper
01-19-2010, 02:54 PM
Diversion in progress

ROFL

It just gets funnier and funnier as the day goes on.

MarcBulger
01-19-2010, 02:59 PM
Red Chief ah you might want to fix your post Clinton did leave a recession....And there was only a surplu if you count Social Security...but hey never let facts get in your way...

The Mad Crapper
01-19-2010, 03:00 PM
Red Chief ah you might want to fix your post Clinton did leave a recession....And there was only a surplu if you count Social Security...but hey never let facts get in your way...

He's a spoonfed moonbat. Facts never get in their way.

patteeu
01-19-2010, 03:46 PM
uhhh thats because Clinton left a $225 billion surplus and no wars and no recession. WTF did Bush have to bitch about? That he didn't recieve the most votes but was elected anyway...oh right thats Gore.

In the aftermath of 9/11, Bush could have bitched all day every day about Clinton failures and he could have blamed him relentlessly for the bursting of the tech bubble that led to a sluggish economy that democrats routinely described as the worst economy in decades... but he took the high road unlike your guy.

RINGLEADER
01-19-2010, 03:58 PM
Red Chief ah you might want to fix your post Clinton did leave a recession....And there was only a surplu if you count Social Security...but hey never let facts get in your way...

How much did Clinton pay down the debt again?

BigRedChief
01-19-2010, 04:01 PM
In the aftermath of 9/11, Bush could have bitched all day every day about Clinton failures and he could have blamed him relentlessly for the bursting of the tech bubble that led to a sluggish economy that democrats routinely described as the worst economy in decades... but he took the high road unlike your guy.and the dems could have bitched at Bush about getting a personal presentation/report on how Al-Quaeda and Bin Laden were plotting to hijack planes and crash them in the USA. He did nothing but tell them okay...you covered your ass.

vailpass
01-19-2010, 04:05 PM
and the dems could have bitched at Bush about getting a personal presentation/report on how Al-Quaeda and Bin Laden were plotting to hijack planes and crash them in the USA. He did nothing but tell them okay...you covered your ass.

You seem like a very likable person. I'm sincere when I say it is a shame you are stuck defending Pelosi and obama. I admire your consistency.

The Mad Crapper
01-19-2010, 04:06 PM
and the dems could have bitched at Bush about getting a personal presentation/report on how Al-Quaeda and Bin Laden were plotting to hijack planes and crash them in the USA. He did nothing but tell them okay...you covered your ass.

http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/obeach.jpg

Guru
01-19-2010, 04:07 PM
You seem like a very likable person. I'm sincere when I say it is a shame you are stuck defending Pelosi and obama. I admire your consistency.That is the beauty of politics. BRC is a great guy. It's just too bad we can't change his mind.:D

patteeu
01-19-2010, 04:13 PM
and the dems could have bitched at Bush about getting a personal presentation/report on how Al-Quaeda and Bin Laden were plotting to hijack planes and crash them in the USA. He did nothing but tell them okay...you covered your ass.

Were you in a coma during the Bush years? They did just that even though it was a ridiculous and disingenuous smear.

morphius
01-19-2010, 08:33 PM
uhhh thats because Clinton left a $225 billion surplus and no wars and no recession. WTF did Bush have to bitch about? That he didn't recieve the most votes but was elected anyway...oh right thats Gore.
Let's not pretend that Clinton left a stable economy, all the Enron and MCI World Com crap drove up a ton of stocks, drove companies, and when they were found out to be FoS the economy crashed. And the first recession already was starting before those two helped change the economy for the worse.

Norman Einstein
01-19-2010, 08:38 PM
Let's not pretend that Clinton left a stable economy, all the Enron and MCI World Com crap drove up a ton of stocks, drove companies, and when they were found out to be FoS the economy crashed. And the first recession already was starting before those two helped change the economy for the worse.

Let's not include reality here, he's on a roll!

Donger
01-19-2010, 08:41 PM
I can't wait to hear Nancy's statement.

wild1
01-19-2010, 08:42 PM
I can't wait to hear Nancy's statement.

I bet she has a surprised look on her face right now.

Uh... I mean...

Guru
01-19-2010, 10:02 PM
I can't wait to hear Nancy's statement.It Bush's fault of course.

Bwana
01-19-2010, 10:04 PM
It Bush's fault of course.

ROFL

ROYC75
01-19-2010, 10:14 PM
uhhh thats because Clinton left a $225 billion surplus and no wars and no recession. WTF did Bush have to bitch about? That he didn't recieve the most votes but was elected anyway...oh right thats Gore.

WOW, great post, now if you would have included all the details. But go ahead and spin it to your own interpretation. :doh!: