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RNR
01-20-2010, 04:24 PM
I want to get enough righties in there to cause gridlock. That way they keep each other from fucking things up too much. I dang sure hope this does not lead to a huge power swing to the right~

The Mad Crapper
01-20-2010, 04:36 PM
I want to get enough righties in there to cause gridlock. That way they keep each other from ****ing things up too much. I dang sure hope this does not lead to a huge power swing to the right~

This is the damage that can be avoided...


The Obama administration and the Congress are in a headlong rush to push the country over the fiscal tipping point. The fiscal tipping point is the point where the interest that premium bond buyers are demanding to compensate them for the risk of default and/or accelerating inflation causes the total interest cost to be so high that the government is borrowing just to pay the interest. This is equivalent to a family being so far in debt that it is borrowing just to pay the interest on its mortgage, credit cards, etc.

The proposed health care plan and the environmental cap-and-trade scheme will add trillions of dollars to the U.S. debt over the next few years and, in all likelihood, soon will drive the total debt burden to well over 100 percent of GDP. Even if the administration were to tax the "rich" at 100 percent of their incomes, there would still not be enough money to pay for all of these spending schemes.

The following should be known to most members of Congress. The size of the U.S. government is already well over the welfare and economic growth-maximizing rate. Taxes on upper-income Americans are well above the revenue-maximizing rate. Thus, for those in the political class to further increase the size of government and government debt as a percentage of GDP is grossly irresponsible. It is almost as if they had a death wish for the country.

-Cato Institute's Richard Rahn

Jenson71
01-20-2010, 04:39 PM
I want to get enough righties in there to cause gridlock. That way they keep each other from ****ing things up too much. I dang sure hope this does not lead to a huge power swing to the right~

Wouldn't it be amazing if the Constitution had some built in ways to promote gridlock regardless of political parties?

The Mad Crapper
01-20-2010, 04:41 PM
Wouldn't it be amazing if the Constitution had some built in ways to promote gridlock regardless of political parties?

Checks and balances?

Jenson71
01-20-2010, 04:43 PM
Checks and balances?

Oh, yeah. The Democrats check the Republicans, and the Republicans balance the Democrats.

petegz28
01-20-2010, 04:56 PM
We need to abolish the Party system altogether. That would go a long way to fixing our problems. Moreso than term limits ever would.

petegz28
01-20-2010, 04:57 PM
Abolish the Party system
Abolish corporate and special interest group donations to politicians

Problem fixed.

Jenson71
01-20-2010, 05:02 PM
We need to abolish the Party system altogether. That would go a long way to fixing our problems. Moreso than term limits ever would.

LMAO

What's "the party system"?

petegz28
01-20-2010, 05:05 PM
LMAO

What's "the party system"?

Wow, the poly-sci kid asks this???

Bearcat2005
01-20-2010, 05:17 PM
Abolish the Party system
Abolish corporate and special interest group donations to politicians

Problem fixed.

Abolish the party system? Its a majoritarian electoral system, parties have emerged from it not the other way around.

Jenson71
01-20-2010, 05:21 PM
Wow, the poly-sci kid asks this???

I want to hear you say it. Right now, I'm getting the idea that you want to abolish parties.

The Mad Crapper
01-20-2010, 05:24 PM
I want to hear you say it. Right now, I'm getting the idea that you want to abolish parties.

I want to hear you thay it right now!

Ooooooh thith ith tho eggthyting!

petegz28
01-20-2010, 05:25 PM
I want to hear you say it. Right now, I'm getting the idea that you want to abolish parties.

Wow, what ever gave you that idea? That fact that I said Parties should be abolished????

Jenson71
01-20-2010, 05:30 PM
Wow, what ever gave you that idea? That fact that I said Parties should be abolished????

Well, you said 'the party system'. You could mean something more specific.

But really, you want to abolish parties in America?

petegz28
01-20-2010, 05:31 PM
Abolish the party system? Its a majoritarian electoral system, parties have emerged from it not the other way around.

Political parties are the root of corruption in our government anymore and to a lesser degree they brainwash a certain amount of the consituency. The provide money for people to get elected that probably otherwise never would if they couldn't outspend their opponents. If people had to run on their own, void of party support, we would all be better off for it. It would help eliminate as well the voting for a person simply because of the letter behind their name. It hopefully would force people to pay more attention and would avoid things like a Coakley almost walking into the Senate because she was a Democrat.

Plus the fact that the 2 prominent parties have virtually shut out any opposing voices and merely making them two sides of the same coin.

Jenson71
01-20-2010, 05:32 PM
I want to hear you thay it right now!

Ooooooh thith ith tho eggthyting!

Is this your gay lisp, shtspryer? You learning some things on the internet?

Jenson71
01-20-2010, 05:33 PM
Political parties are the root of corruption in our government anymore and to a lesser degree they brainwash a certain amount of the consituency. The provide money for people to get elected that probably otherwise never would if they couldn't outspend their opponents. If people had to run on their own, void of party support, we would all be better off for it. It would help eliminate as well the voting for a person simply because of the letter behind their name. It hopefully would force people to pay more attention and would avoid things like a Coakley almost walking into the Senate because she was a Democrat.

Plus the fact that the 2 prominent parties have virtually shut out any opposing voices and merely making them two sides of the same coin.

I've heard some of kids giving 'pie-in-the-sky' answers in class, but good lord, pete.

petegz28
01-20-2010, 05:36 PM
I've heard some of kids giving 'pie-in-the-sky' answers in class, but good lord, pete.

I never said it wasn't wishful thinking. That doesn't mean it isn't a good idea.

Jenson71
01-20-2010, 05:38 PM
I never said it wasn't wishful thinking. That doesn't mean it isn't a good idea.

Hugs for World Peace.

The Mad Crapper
01-20-2010, 05:41 PM
I've heard some of kids giving 'pie-in-the-sky' answers in class, but good lord, pete.

Oh you're so above all the "kids".

ROFL

What a toolbox.

petegz28
01-20-2010, 05:47 PM
Hugs for World Peace.

I think it's close to your bedtime.

The Mad Crapper
01-20-2010, 05:48 PM
WHAT A TOOLBOX!

ROFL

Jenson71
01-20-2010, 05:59 PM
Oh you're so above all the "kids".

ROFL

What a toolbox.

Having listened to both you and them, I'm thinking they could teach you a lot.

Jenson71
01-20-2010, 05:59 PM
I think it's close to your bedtime.

Abolish the parties! Then America will be free again!

Jenson71
01-20-2010, 06:02 PM
WHAT A TOOLBOX!

ROFL

Is this going to be the night when you turn into your sniveling bitch shell and get your ass banned once again? Cause that'd be entertaining.

The Mad Crapper
01-20-2010, 06:05 PM
Is this going to be the night when you turn into your sniveling bitch shell and get your ass banned once again? Cause that'd be entertaining.

Why do you hate me so much? What did I ever do to you? Why do you love B.O. so much? What has he ever done for this country besides bankrupt it?

Jenson71
01-20-2010, 06:06 PM
Why do you love B.O. so much? What has he ever done for this country besides bankrupt it?

What's not registering for you, shtspryer?

The Mad Crapper
01-20-2010, 06:07 PM
What's not registering for you, shtspryer?

You love him, admit it.

petegz28
01-20-2010, 06:13 PM
Abolish the parties! Then America will be free again!

I noticed that with all your self-proclaimed knowledge of politics, you rarely offer anything of value to a conversation.

Bearcat2005
01-20-2010, 07:31 PM
I swear whenever I want a laugh I come on here, to read witty comments and uneducated responses.... its a hoot.

The Mad Crapper
01-20-2010, 07:36 PM
I noticed that with all your self-proclaimed knowledge of politics, you rarely offer anything of value to a conversation.

He reads stuff out of his textbooks and then types it into the message field, then hit's "submit reply" and hopes everybody just assumes he's intelligent.

Bearcat2005
01-20-2010, 07:40 PM
He reads stuff out of his textbooks and then types it into the message field, then hit's "submit reply" and hopes everybody just assumes he's intelligent.

If someone believes refers to our electoral system as a "party system", then I have serious questions to their understanding of such. A true scholar would have a better understanding of the electoral system we have in place. I can always suggest a book if someone is interested :)

petegz28
01-20-2010, 07:47 PM
If someone believes refers to our electoral system as a "party system", then I have serious questions to their understanding of such. A true scholar would have a better understanding of the electoral system we have in place. I can always suggest a book if someone is interested :)

You suggest whatever you want. The fact of the matter is, our "electoral system" is dominated by the Party system. More specifically the 2-Party system. I know the books say otherwise but reality says something else.

Bearcat2005
01-20-2010, 07:53 PM
You suggest whatever you want. The fact of the matter is, our "electoral system" is dominated by the Party system. More specifically the 2-Party system. I know the books say otherwise but reality says something else.

Yes but it is not and never referred to as a party system, if you want to change that you need to realize that the entire electoral system needs to be changed, that is the reality, and yes its in books, imagine that.

Bearcat2005
01-20-2010, 07:56 PM
You suggest whatever you want. The fact of the matter is, our "electoral system" is dominated by the Party system. More specifically the 2-Party system. I know the books say otherwise but reality says something else.

What your asking for pete is a proportional representation electoral system in the US not a majoritarian system like it currently is. (assuming if you are agianst a "2-party system")

A PR system creates several parties with influence in which parties have to form a coalition to govern, i.e Germany. A majoritarian system leads to two major parties in which coalition governments are not an option. i.e. UK, US

petegz28
01-20-2010, 08:02 PM
What your asking for pete is a proportional representation electoral system in the US not a majoritarian system like it currently is. (assuming if you are agianst a "2-party system")

I don't see it that way. I don't see it as you have to have political parties to have a majoritarian system. You can have a majoritarian system without political parties. I am not asking for a proportional system at all. I don't understand how you gather that I was?

Bearcat2005
01-20-2010, 08:04 PM
I don't see it that way. I don't see it as you have to have political parties to have a majoritarian system. You can have a majoritarian system without political parties. I am not asking for a proportional system at all. I don't understand how you gather that I was?

Name one majoritarian electoral system that lacks political parties? I edited my last response to explain both systems further. The truth is a government based on such system CREATES two major parties.

Bearcat2005
01-20-2010, 08:04 PM
I don't see it that way. I don't see it as you have to have political parties to have a majoritarian system. You can have a majoritarian system without political parties. I am not asking for a proportional system at all. I don't understand how you gather that I was?

That is why I said assuming if you are, I never said you did......

petegz28
01-20-2010, 08:04 PM
What your asking for pete is a proportional representation electoral system in the US not a majoritarian system like it currently is. (assuming if you are agianst a "2-party system")

A PR system creates several parties with influence in which parties have to form a coalition to govern, i.e Germany. A majoritarian system leads to two major parties in which coalition governments are not an option. i.e. UK, US

What I would like to see is parties gone. If Sam Brownback wins he is Sen. Sam Brownback-Ks. Not Sen. Sam Brownback (R)-ks. I many need to dust off my old poly-sci books but I don't see what I am asking for as proportional or plurality.

petegz28
01-20-2010, 08:07 PM
I don't see it that way. I don't see it as you have to have political parties to have a majoritarian system. You can have a majoritarian system without political parties. I am not asking for a proportional system at all. I don't understand how you gather that I was?

That is why I said assuming......

Basically the reason I want the political parties abolished is to help limit the corruption, cronyism and as I siad earlier, the ignorance of the voter. If people could not vote party line on a ticket or you took ability for a person to vote for someone simply because of their party affiliation I think we would be a much more educated constituency.

Bearcat2005
01-20-2010, 08:11 PM
What I would like to see is parties gone. If Sam Brownback wins he is Sen. Sam Brownback-Ks. Not Sen. Sam Brownback (R)-ks. I many need to dust off my old poly-sci books but I don't see what I am asking for as proportional or plurality.

Pete the truth is we will never see no political parties with this current electoral system or any other. I understand your frustration, I am upset with the Reps b/c they are not economically conservative enough and lack fiscal responsibility, but I end up voting sometimes for them b/c the alternative is worse.
What we or at least I can hope for is that the Repubs embrace many libertarian platform issues and absorb those voters, much like the populist and progressive movement around the turn of the century when both parties took aspects of those platforms.

Bearcat2005
01-20-2010, 08:13 PM
[QUOTE=Bearcat2005;6464917]

Basically the reason I want the political parties abolished is to help limit the corruption, cronyism and as I siad earlier, the ignorance of the voter. If people could not vote party line on a ticket or you took ability for a person to vote for someone simply because of their party affiliation I think we would be a much more educated constituency.

Hey you and I are 100 percent on this one. The sad thing is, the bigger the government grows, the more of this patronage and cronyism you have. I wish these statists would understand that. Big government is big businesses best friend.

petegz28
01-20-2010, 08:13 PM
Pete the truth is we will never see no political parties with this current electoral system or any other. I understand your frustration, I am upset with the Reps b/c they are not economically conservative enough and lack fiscal responsibility, but I end up voting sometimes for them b/c the alternative is worse.
What we or at least I can hope for is that the Repubs embrace many libertarian platform issues and absorb those voters, much like the populist and progressive movement around the turn of the century when both parties took aspects of those platforms.

Well, as I said earlier, I never said it wasn't wishfull thinking. But you are spot on as to why I hate the party crap. I think you would get more genuine representation if candidates weren't always worried about appeasing "the party".

Bearcat2005
01-20-2010, 08:15 PM
Well, as I said earlier, I never said it wasn't wishfull thinking. But you are spot on as to why I hate the party crap. I think you would get more genuine representation if candidates weren't always worried about appeasing "the party".

Yea I agree, honestly I think a PR system is much better in advancing the will of the individual and limiting political parties power. So this is the only time you will hear me say it but in this case we should be more like Europe lol..... but just this case :)

petegz28
01-20-2010, 08:16 PM
[QUOTE=petegz28;6464925]

Hey you and I are 100 percent on this one. The sad thing is, the bigger the government grows, the more of this patronage and cronyism you have. I wish these statists would understand that. Big government is big businesses best friend.

I'd love to see corporations, unions, etc, etc, get blocked from making campaign donations. That doesn't mean the rich fat cats can't all send money to one person or the other. But it encumbers the process and still protects free spech. As long as there is politics there will be corruption. A reality not lost on me at all. But I think things like that would do better than the paltry campaign finance reform laws we have now.

petegz28
01-20-2010, 08:19 PM
Yea I agree, honestly I think a PR system is much better in advancing the will of the individual and limiting political parties power. So this is the only time you will hear me say it but in this case we should be more like Europe lol..... but just this case :)

Just to cite recent history, a great example of what I am talking about is how right after the debates in Mass., Martha Coakley headed off to D.C. to collect from big Pharma and many others instead of talking with her desired constituents. Which is a big reason why she lost, thanfully. But that mentality is there in spades among politicans.

Bearcat2005
01-20-2010, 08:22 PM
[QUOTE=Bearcat2005;6464944]

I'd love to see corporations, unions, etc, etc, get blocked from making campaign donations. That doesn't mean the rich fat cats can't all send money to one person or the other. But it encumbers the process and still protects free spech. As long as there is politics there will be corruption. A reality not lost on me at all. But I think things like that would do better than the paltry campaign finance reform laws we have now.

If we limit the governments economic power over or lives then many of these lobbyists wouldn't be able attain their wishes therefore would dissolve. We need to treat the disease that causes the illness, not the illness.

petegz28
01-20-2010, 08:33 PM
[QUOTE=petegz28;6464964]

If we limit the governments economic power over or lives then many of these lobbyists wouldn't be able attain their wishes therefore would dissolve. We need to treat the disease that causes the illness, not the illness.

Agreed.