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Taco John
01-21-2010, 09:45 AM
I actually feel it! I feel the Change and the Hope right now!

It feels like a ray of sun has just burst through a cloud. A government with its hands tied is a beautiful thing.

Everyone! Start looking around you for opportunities. We're about to see the market improve and people relax a little about spending. If enough people take advantage of the opportunities around them, we'll see the clouds start to burn off a little - maybe even a lot!

Royal Fanatic
01-21-2010, 09:47 AM
Let's not forget that even though the supermajority is gone, the Democrats still control the White House and both houses of Congress. There is still plenty of damage they can do.

The Mad Crapper
01-21-2010, 09:50 AM
I actually feel it! I feel the Change and the Hope right now!

It feels like a ray of sun has just burst through a cloud. A government with its hands tied is a beautiful thing.

Everyone! Start looking around you for opportunities. We're about to see the market improve and people relax a little about spending. If enough people take advantage of the opportunities around them, we'll see the clouds start to burn off a little - maybe even a lot!

DOW dropped like a rock after B.O. gave a speech:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/34975288

Why can't he just go away? Go to Hawaii for a few years and do nothing. The country will get better without him.

Taco John
01-21-2010, 10:01 AM
Let's not forget that even though the supermajority is gone, the Democrats still control the White House and both houses of Congress. There is still plenty of damage they can do.

No my friend. I'm telling you. They are hog tied. At least until November. They're going to try one last thing before November, which is to raise the debt ceiling. And they're going to get POUNDED over it. It's going to be beautiful. Remember Code Red? That's what it will look like: a political code red where the American public throws a hoodwink over them and beats the Democrat party with soap.

It will probably get passed, and that note will set the tone for both Democrats and Republicans heading into the 2010 elections. And rats are going to get cleaned out of both houses. In some cases, it will just be swapping rats out with other rats. But even then, that buys us time. But more than likely what is going to happen is the Republicans are going to make just enough gains to keep Obama and the Democrats bound in hog ties for the next two years.

Basically, Obama and the Democrats have been sent to the drawing board to redraft their agenda and then re-sell it. Just about anything they do right now outside of this is going to cost them in November and in 2012. Losing in Massachussettington is like flying into a political billboard. The Democrat party got the message. Despite what people may think, their party leaders are not stupid. The politicians are looking out for number one right now, and the party leaders are on notice that their jobs aren't safe. And that counts for the guy with THE job.

Brock
01-21-2010, 10:04 AM
It's too bad the only thing these aholes understand is self-preservation.

Taco John
01-21-2010, 10:06 AM
DOW dropped like a rock after B.O. gave a speech:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/34975288

Why can't he just go away? Go to Hawaii for a few years and do nothing. The country will get better without him.


Don't worry. It will trend upward. Of course the government still has a lot of power - and the market will always be leery of that. But market attitudes will get rosier and rosier as the year goes on. Hear me now and believe me later: 2010 will be a brighter year than 2009 was (saving of course a black swan event which no one can predict).

Look for opportunities around you people! Now is the time to strike! If it's stocks, you'll know when its time to sell by watching the government tighten its grip. Once it tightens its grip, look for an exit strategy and, of course, a ballot.

Taco John
01-21-2010, 10:11 AM
It's too bad the only thing these aholes understand is self-preservation.


You can't blame them really. That's all anyone understands. Self-preservation is intrinsic to all life, from the ameba to the biosphere. Certainly to humans.

What it's really too bad they don't understand is the Constitution, and the republican form of government. If they understood these things, the fact that their primary instinct is for self-preservation becomes a good thing because their voters would be a lot closer to them.

talastan
01-21-2010, 10:31 AM
I just hope that we can work towards undoing the last 100 years of progressive "adjustments" to our way of government, education, and economics. Hopefully we can start taking steps back towards what our founding fathers truly envisioned. The awakening that started this year with Tea Partys, and the Mass. voters needs to continue. People need to stay alert and call their representatives out when they screw up. Heres hoping the people continue to take back their rightful place as the real power of this country!! :)

KCTitus
01-21-2010, 11:16 AM
Enjoyed Tuesday night...much like a win over the Broncos, I enjoy it for 24 hours and then move on to the next game.

To that end both McDonnell and Corzine's inauguration addresses proposed more spending and taxes. Im glad for Scott Brown and the message the voters have attempted to send, but there are progressive republicans that could just as easy become #60...dont for one minute think that Snowe, McCain, Collins et al arent being offered all sorts of goodies to 'reach across the aisle'.

The winning message is truly smaller government--politicans talk about 'shared sacrifice' but dont really mean it unless it's to take more of everyones money via tax, a reduction of services and a budget well under 2T total -- that includes the debt payment services, otherwise, we're still marching off the cliff.

Sorry...didnt mean to rain on the parade, TJ

Taco John
01-21-2010, 11:23 AM
Enjoyed Tuesday night...much like a win over the Broncos, I enjoy it for 24 hours and then move on to the next game.

To that end both McDonnell and Corzine's inauguration addresses proposed more spending and taxes. Im glad for Scott Brown and the message the voters have attempted to send, but there are progressive republicans that could just as easy become #60...dont for one minute think that Snowe, McCain, Collins et al arent being offered all sorts of goodies to 'reach across the aisle'.

The winning message is truly smaller government--politicans talk about 'shared sacrifice' but dont really mean it unless it's to take more of everyones money via tax, a reduction of services and a budget well under 2T total -- that includes the debt payment services, otherwise, we're still marching off the cliff.

Sorry...didnt mean to rain on the parade, TJ


No man, I understand. There's a lot of work to be done, and I'm not singing happy days are here again just yet. But I definitely feel some optimism for both the short and long terms. There's reason to feel good right now. That's all I'm saying.

The Mad Crapper
01-21-2010, 11:49 AM
No man, I understand. There's a lot of work to be done, and I'm not singing happy days are here again just yet. But I definitely feel some optimism for both the short and long terms. There's reason to feel good right now. That's all I'm saying.

TJ, Bernanke is going to blow everything up again:

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/408314/Message-of-the-Markets%3A-Inflation-Will-Force-the-Feds-Hand%2C-Crippling-Recovery

Chocolate Hog
01-21-2010, 12:25 PM
TJ sounds like you think it'll be the 90's again when Republicans took over the house and senate and Bill Clinton moved to the center. I hope you're right and I wish they would get this audit the fed bill through. I wonder if Brown will vote for it in Senate?

Taco John
01-21-2010, 12:52 PM
TJ sounds like you think it'll be the 90's again when Republicans took over the house and senate and Bill Clinton moved to the center. I hope you're right and I wish they would get this audit the fed bill through. I wonder if Brown will vote for it in Senate?

For the short term, yes, I think that's the direction we're headed. Sprayer brings up a good point that The Fed still has enough power to eff the whole thing up. But the good news is that the people are waking up to the power of the fed and the dangers that go with that power. I'm optimistic.

patteeu
01-21-2010, 01:03 PM
Let's not forget that even though the supermajority is gone, the Democrats still control the White House and both houses of Congress. There is still plenty of damage they can do.

This. The democrats still have bigger majorities than GWB ever had. Their hands are now on the table, but they aren't tied. Divided government is still a long way from reality. It's a testament to how bad times are that Ron Paul supporters like TJ are happy about limiting government madness to whatever Olympia Snowe will tolerate.

patteeu, the slightly less pessimistic

Taco John
01-21-2010, 01:06 PM
This. The democrats still have bigger majorities than GWB ever had. Their hands are now on the table, but they aren't tied. Divided government is still a long way from reality. It's a testament to how bad times are that Ron Paul supporters like TJ are happy about limiting government madness to whatever Olympia Snowe will tolerate.

patteeu, the slightly less pessimistic


I'm not saying people should let down their guards. But every politician in DC is scared shitless right now. That's something worth being optimistic about.

Chocolate Hog
01-21-2010, 01:21 PM
I'm not saying people should let down their guards. But every politician in DC is scared shitless right now. That's something worth being optimistic about.

We need a guy like John Dennis to beat Nancy Pelosi.

patteeu
01-21-2010, 01:26 PM
We need a guy like John Dennis to beat Nancy Pelosi.

Like Brian Sean Griffith did?

Chocolate Hog
01-21-2010, 01:27 PM
Like Brian Sean Griffith did?

Who?

patteeu
01-21-2010, 01:41 PM
Who?

He's the guy who "beat" Nancy Kerrigan

wild1
01-21-2010, 01:53 PM
It's a testament to how bad times are that Ron Paul supporters like TJ are happy about limiting government madness to whatever Olympia Snowe will tolerate.

patteeu, the slightly less pessimistic

This is true as well, but everyone who wants limited government should take heart here.

After the only party even pretending to like limited government moved further and further away from it over the last decade, 2009 was the best year in a very, very long time.

We saw some of the loudest and proudest opposition to government waste, expansion, bureaucracy, etc we've ever seen in this country. They've successfully paralyzed this congress for the fullness of the first two years, and with more seat gains, maybe this president's whole term.

Republicans sounded like republicans again (a good deal of them anyway). We saw the curtain pulled back on what liberals say in campaigns versus what they really try for when they're in office. People are aware again of what Democrats will do if you let them off the leash. 2009 was a watershed year.

The American public's grassroots revolt against socialism in 2009, completely halting in its tracks the incoming leftmost government in modern history, is a huge victory. Maybe the biggest victory since Reagan beat Carter.

patteeu
01-21-2010, 02:39 PM
This is true as well, but everyone who wants limited government should take heart here.

After the only party even pretending to like limited government moved further and further away from it over the last decade, 2009 was the best year in a very, very long time.

We saw some of the loudest and proudest opposition to government waste, expansion, bureaucracy, etc we've ever seen in this country. They've successfully paralyzed this congress for the fullness of the first two years, and with more seat gains, maybe this president's whole term.

Republicans sounded like republicans again (a good deal of them anyway). We saw the curtain pulled back on what liberals say in campaigns versus what they really try for when they're in office. People are aware again of what Democrats will do if you let them off the leash. 2009 was a watershed year.

The American public's grassroots revolt against socialism in 2009, completely halting in its tracks the incoming leftmost government in modern history, is a huge victory. Maybe the biggest victory since Reagan beat Carter.

I think I know what you're saying, but we overspent far more and moved more rapidly in the direction of socialism in 2009 than we did in any of the years when the "pretending" party was in power. If Congress is effectively paralyzed, and I really don't believe they are, it's only after they've done a lot of damage. It's great that Republicans are no longer completely irrelevant, but as long as democrats hold the WH, the House, and the Senate, I can't be optimistic. I'm sure they'll lose seats in November, but I'm not sure the democrats will lose control of either house of Congress.

The Brown victory represents a heartbeat in a flat-lined opposition party, but the patient is still critically ill and far from recovery, IMO.

I don't trust that the grassroots revolt against socialism isn't just as much a fad as the grassroots Obama swell was.

Taco John
01-21-2010, 02:51 PM
It's not a fad in the least. This grassroots revolt didn't begin in 2009, and both parties have suffered by their deafness to it.

Cannibal
01-21-2010, 02:56 PM
I think I know what you're saying, but we overspent far more and moved more rapidly in the direction of socialism in 2009 than we did in any of the years when the "pretending" party was in power. If Congress is effectively paralyzed, and I really don't believe they are, it's only after they've done a lot of damage. It's great that Republicans are no longer completely irrelevant, but as long as democrats hold the WH, the House, and the Senate, I can't be optimistic. I'm sure they'll lose seats in November, but I'm not sure the democrats will lose control of either house of Congress.

The Brown victory represents a heartbeat in a flat-lined opposition party, but the patient is still critically ill and far from recovery, IMO.

I don't trust that the grassroots revolt against socialism isn't just as much a fad as the grassroots Obama swell was.

I am much less optimistic in general regardless of party. I agree with a lot of the Dem platform, but they are so wishy washy with their finger in the air politically and such pussies about enacting their agenda that I've had it.

patteeu
01-21-2010, 03:12 PM
It's not a fad in the least. This grassroots revolt didn't begin in 2009, and both parties have suffered by their deafness to it.

I know you're a true believer, but there are true believing socialists out there too. The question isn't about how strong the belief is among the core, it's about how strong the belief is in the fickle and unreliable group at the center of American politics. People like Mr. Kotter. People who want inconsistent things like small government that leaves them alone AND government guaranteed health care for all. Do you remember when IrishJayhawk and Jenson71 liked Ron Paul?

Ronald Reagan couldn't come close to pulling off smaller government despite winning the WH in a landslide.

Taco John
01-21-2010, 03:31 PM
I know you're a true believer, but there are true believing socialists out there too. The question isn't about how strong the belief is among the core, it's about how strong the belief is in the fickle and unreliable group at the center of American politics. People like Mr. Kotter. People who want inconsistent things like small government that leaves them alone AND government guaranteed health care for all. Do you remember when IrishJayhawk and Jenson71 liked Ron Paul?

Ronald Reagan couldn't come close to pulling off smaller government despite winning the WH in a landslide.




I am a true believer in libertarian government: liberty-based government.

Liberty-based government is light and efficient.

I recognize that change isn't going to happen overnight. But it will never happen if your movement isn't based on a consistent principle and votes up or down on that principle. Reagan didn't have that. Ron Paul has lived it and put in a library of work that is a legislative treasure trove for the movement for decades to come (whether he ever gets elected or not).

Ron Paul is running on a platform that he has developed for decades now. Reagan didn't have that.

wild1
01-21-2010, 03:57 PM
I think I know what you're saying, but we overspent far more and moved more rapidly in the direction of socialism in 2009 than we did in any of the years when the "pretending" party was in power. If Congress is effectively paralyzed, and I really don't believe they are, it's only after they've done a lot of damage. It's great that Republicans are no longer completely irrelevant, but as long as democrats hold the WH, the House, and the Senate, I can't be optimistic. I'm sure they'll lose seats in November, but I'm not sure the democrats will lose control of either house of Congress.

The Brown victory represents a heartbeat in a flat-lined opposition party, but the patient is still critically ill and far from recovery, IMO.

I don't trust that the grassroots revolt against socialism isn't just as much a fad as the grassroots Obama swell was.

You're right about all those things. I'm not saying America moved in the right direction in 2009 - far, far, far from it. I was just being the optimist and saying, hey, look what we accomplished (or prevented...) compared to recent years.

I know we spent way too much money, but a one-time expenditure of the stimulus bill pales in comparison to the what-comes-after-trillion scope of socialist health care that was averted. And that cost would have continued to increase forever, irrevocably.

If the Republicans can take just one of the Houses of congress, then we can at least see gridlock in Washington again. I'd take it since almost every time the government acts something bad happens and we just continue to spend, spend, spend.

RINGLEADER
01-21-2010, 04:10 PM
No my friend. I'm telling you. They are hog tied. At least until November. They're going to try one last thing before November, which is to raise the debt ceiling. And they're going to get POUNDED over it. It's going to be beautiful. Remember Code Red? That's what it will look like: a political code red where the American public throws a hoodwink over them and beats the Democrat party with soap.

It will probably get passed, and that note will set the tone for both Democrats and Republicans heading into the 2010 elections. And rats are going to get cleaned out of both houses. In some cases, it will just be swapping rats out with other rats. But even then, that buys us time. But more than likely what is going to happen is the Republicans are going to make just enough gains to keep Obama and the Democrats bound in hog ties for the next two years.

Basically, Obama and the Democrats have been sent to the drawing board to redraft their agenda and then re-sell it. Just about anything they do right now outside of this is going to cost them in November and in 2012. Losing in Massachussettington is like flying into a political billboard. The Democrat party got the message. Despite what people may think, their party leaders are not stupid. The politicians are looking out for number one right now, and the party leaders are on notice that their jobs aren't safe. And that counts for the guy with THE job.


Totally agree.

The one thing that the GOP should be doing right now is reminding everyone how we got here. All the missteps. All the broken promises. All the out-right lies. All coming from the same Dems out there now trying to claim the bi-partisan mantle and urge "caution", "restraint", and a newfound willingness to "listen" when it comes to health care and governing.

This lot -- Kerry, Durbin, Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, etc., etc. -- are the same people who JUST LAST WEEK were trying to ram this BS down our throats. They're liars. If Brown had lost -- even by 1 vote -- NOTHING would have changed. They wouldn't be re-evaluating a damn thing. They'd be pushing even harder to force their left-wing nutbag agenda on the rest of us.

Even after losing MA some of them STILL don't understand that it isn't that we're angry, or that we want to hear them rail on the banks, or that we think we need to be protected from fatcats and greedy insurance companies.

Most Americans are scared of and want to be protected from THE POLITICIANS.

Chocolate Hog
01-21-2010, 04:38 PM
Did Irishjayhawk and Jenson both jump off the Ron Paul bandwagon?

Taco John
01-21-2010, 04:46 PM
Did Irishjayhawk and Jenson both jump off the Ron Paul bandwagon?

They only really liked him because he was a danger to the Republican party. Which he was and still is. The Republicans still have to decide if they think they can ignore him and his movement, or if they want to embrace and run with him. Last time, they ignored him, and it cost them the election.

The Mad Crapper
01-21-2010, 04:49 PM
He's the guy who "beat" Nancy Kerrigan

Dennis Miller has to find a way to get that into his next skit.

ROFL

patteeu
01-21-2010, 04:51 PM
I am a true believer in libertarian government: liberty-based government.

Liberty-based government is light and efficient.

I recognize that change isn't going to happen overnight. But it will never happen if your movement isn't based on a consistent principle and votes up or down on that principle. Reagan didn't have that. Ron Paul has lived it and put in a library of work that is a legislative treasure trove for the movement for decades to come (whether he ever gets elected or not).

Ron Paul is running on a platform that he has developed for decades now. Reagan didn't have that.

Ron Paul is no Ronald Reagan in more ways than one. Most relevantly, perhaps, he'll never be President.

I'm very sympathetic to most of your libertarian beliefs but I just don't see them capturing anything like a governing majority anytime soon, tea parties notwithstanding.

Taco John
01-21-2010, 04:51 PM
They (the Republicans) are going to make a calculated gamble that they can ignore Ron Paul and still maintain the grass root movement that is going on right now. But they're going to end up singing Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start The Fire" when they realize that their establishment candidates aren't able to maintain the same level of enthusiasm as the guy who *did* start the fire.

The Mad Crapper
01-21-2010, 04:53 PM
Ron Paul is no Ronald Reagan in more ways than one. Most relevantly, perhaps, he'll never be President.

I'm very sympathetic to most of your libertarian beliefs but I just don't see them capturing anything like a governing majority anytime soon, tea parties notwithstanding.

Ron Paul > McSame

Taco John
01-21-2010, 04:55 PM
Ron Paul is no Ronald Reagan in more ways than one. Most relevantly, perhaps, he'll never be President.

I'm very sympathetic to most of your libertarian beliefs but I just don't see them capturing anything like a governing majority anytime soon, tea parties notwithstanding.

I don't think that he'll be president either. I reserve hope that a black swan event occurs that puts him there, but I'm not counting on it. Ron Paul isn't going to play ball with the Republican establishment, and they're not going to make him the number one Republican. Even if they decided that their hand is forced and they have to run Ron Paul out there like Barry Goldwater, they'd want to pick his VP, and Ron Paul wouldn't compromise on that. It doesn't seem like a likely marraige to me.

But like Barry Goldwater, Ron Paul is laying bricks for someone better to come along. And that's something I can smile about and look forward to.

Jenson71
01-21-2010, 04:57 PM
Why would the Ron Paul movement be optimistic with Brown? Did he not support RomneyCare? He supports more troops to Afghanistan? Enhanced interrogation techniques?

BucEyedPea
01-21-2010, 06:17 PM
TJ, Bernanke is going to blow everything up again:

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/408314/Message-of-the-Markets%3A-Inflation-Will-Force-the-Feds-Hand%2C-Crippling-Recovery

Oh get ready, where I buy my ice-cream cone snack has already double-digited it's prices and feels it should be higher; and it will as things improve. It's a little microcosm. But beware, because even if there looks like a recovery, there will be inflation ( which is already there) but it will show it's face. Eventually there will be another bust—one we might not recover from.

BucEyedPea
01-21-2010, 06:19 PM
Why would the Ron Paul movement be optimistic with Brown? Did he not support RomneyCare? He supports more troops to Afghanistan? Enhanced interrogation techniques?

Yep, Brown is a NeoCon and also voted for 7 Billion in spending in Mass too.
That's the best one can get from Mass though. So it's still an improvement. Even I would have voted for him if I were still in Mass.

BucEyedPea
01-21-2010, 06:21 PM
They (the Republicans) are going to make a calculated gamble that they can ignore Ron Paul and still maintain the grass root movement that is going on right now. But they're going to end up singing Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start The Fire" when they realize that their establishment candidates aren't able to maintain the same level of enthusiasm as the guy who *did* start the fire.

That's right! They can be just as slow to realize where they're out of touch with the voters. Really, though it's Bush Rs that were rejected in the election of Obama.
Just as delusional as the hard left.

BucEyedPea
01-21-2010, 06:24 PM
Gawd, patteeu is such a cynic.

Jenson71
01-21-2010, 07:15 PM
Oh get ready, where I buy my ice-cream cone snack has already double-digited it's prices and feels it should be higher; and it will as things improve.

Well, how are the malls?

Cannibal
01-21-2010, 07:16 PM
Well, how are the malls?

LOL. Unfortunately for BEP she's never gonna live that down.

Jenson71
01-21-2010, 07:25 PM
Gawd, patteeu is such a cynic.

Most people don't want to radically change America like Ron Paul. The tea parties are in the context of a severe recession and massive government debt in the local, state, and federal level. People are more worried for the future then they are present. That's why all their arguments, and Taco John's, are slippery slopes. When the budget shows a surplus and the debt question is addressed, and unemployment is back around 4.5, 80% of the country thinks compassionate conservatism isn't such a bad thing. 80% of people think social security nets are a postive thing the state can provide.

There is anger right now. It can allow populists to energize. It's why Glenn Beck is popular enough to have almost 3 million people watch his TV show.

Jenson71
01-21-2010, 07:28 PM
LOL. Unfortunately for BEP she's never gonna live that down.

Sure, because she still argues like that. "My ice cream snack".

Taco John
01-21-2010, 08:14 PM
Why would the Ron Paul movement be optimistic with Brown? Did he not support RomneyCare? He supports more troops to Afghanistan? Enhanced interrogation techniques?

I dont care about Brown. I care about the message that Washington was just sent and the fact that every Democrat on that hill is shitting themselves right now.

The Mad Crapper
01-22-2010, 07:44 AM
I dont care about Brown. I care about the message that Washington was just sent and the fact that every Democrat on that hill is shitting themselves right now.

That's why Jenson keeps trying to change the subject.

:)

Taco John
03-09-2010, 03:58 PM
I dont care about Brown. I care about the message that Washington was just sent and the fact that every Democrat on that hill is shitting themselves right now.


This article and video do a good job here in March of explaining why I felt so much optimism in January (and even still presently) after the Scott Brown election.

Nancy Pelosi's grip on House slips (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34100.html)


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She may still be able to pull it off, but it's going to be like herding cats in the House.