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BIG_DADDY
01-25-2010, 12:45 PM
I have a couple questions if there is someone who really knows this subject.

phisherman
01-25-2010, 12:53 PM
Go with Grados.

BIG_DADDY
01-25-2010, 01:19 PM
Go with Grados.

That's not my question. I love the Dennon's and have pretty much figured out I am going with the AH-D7000's eventually. My question is on headphone amps. Everyone seems to rage about the headroom amps. I was wondering if anyone knew of anything comparable at cheaper prices. I have their $99 portable amp now and really like it. I will probably stay with what I have for the next few months but wanted to put this out there so I can do my proper due diligence.

googlegoogle
01-25-2010, 01:44 PM
noise cancelling doesn't work.

Miles
01-25-2010, 02:35 PM
That's not my question. I love the Dennon's and have pretty much figured out I am going with the AH-D7000's eventually. My question is on headphone amps. Everyone seems to rage about the headroom amps. I was wondering if anyone knew of anything comparable at cheaper prices. I have their $99 portable amp now and really like it. I will probably stay with what I have for the next few months but wanted to put this out there so I can do my proper due diligence.

What are you using as a source and is it primarily music?

BIG_DADDY
01-25-2010, 03:44 PM
What are you using as a source and is it primarily music?

MP3's. Primarily music.

Stanley Nickels
01-25-2010, 03:55 PM
MP3's are not a good option if you're getting really high-end headphones. The most quality you'll from mp3's is something you could easily hear on $50 headphones. You want to get as close to lossless as possible

BIG_DADDY
01-25-2010, 04:03 PM
MP3's are not a good option if you're getting really high-end headphones. The most quality you'll from mp3's is something you could easily hear on $50 headphones. You want to get as close to lossless as possible

CD's?

phisherman
01-25-2010, 04:35 PM
yes, CDs would be considered lossless.

SLAG
01-25-2010, 04:37 PM
What is the best kind of headphones for $20 - I am not an audiophile but a cheap skate that likes to listen to music loud

Saccopoo
01-25-2010, 05:03 PM
What is the best kind of headphones for $20 - I am not an audiophile but a cheap skate that likes to listen to music loud

Doesn't matter at that point.

MP3's are not a good option if you're getting really high-end headphones. The most quality you'll from mp3's is something you could easily hear on $50 headphones. You want to get as close to lossless as possible

It just depends on the headphones. Money doesn't really mean much in terms of quality in high end audio. Headphones are a bit different than loudspeakers in that regard, but still don't buy completely into the concept that money buys better quality, especially in something so subjective. (Case in point, the two worst speakers I have ever heard both retailed for over $100,000.00. I wouldn't have given you $20 for the sound quality (or lack thereof) that they reproduced.)

Here's a link to one of the better headphone companies out there. They make some pretty darn good amps and have a lot of information on headphones, accessories and the like on their site.

http://www.headphone.com/

BIG_DADDY
01-25-2010, 05:09 PM
yes, CDs would be considered lossless.

Is there really that much loss in a MP3? I definately noticed a difference with the Dennon AH-D1001's when ran through the headroom $99 amp. Is that as good as I can expect with an MP3?

BIG_DADDY
01-25-2010, 05:13 PM
What is the best kind of headphones for $20 - I am not an audiophile but a cheap skate that likes to listen to music loud

Best sounding under $100 is Grado SR 60i IMO

Saccopoo
01-25-2010, 05:20 PM
Is there really that much loss in a MP3? I definately noticed a difference with the Dennon AH-D1001's when ran through the headroom $99 amp. Is that as good as I can expect with an MP3?

Not really. Your real limits aren't going to be with the medium, but the actual recording process of the song. There's a reason that some things just sound like shit regardless if it's played through a $75,000 turntable with a $6,000 cartridge and a $5,000 stylus or a clock radio. Some songs are simply recorded and mastered better than others.

As I said previously, most speakers, regardless of the cost, aren't capable of differentiating the minutia of difference between formats (vinyl, digital hard copy, mp3s, etc.) anyway. Headphones mitigate some of the problems that speakers have due to the direct coupling of the transducer to the ear, but they also have problems of their own in that it's hard to accurately reproduce true the full audible frequency spectrum with such a small, single transducer. Also, the soundstage presentation is never going to be accurately portrayed in headphone playback because of the direct coupling at such a severe, 180 degree positioning.

BIG_DADDY
01-25-2010, 05:32 PM
Not really. Your real limits aren't going to be with the medium, but the actual recording process of the song. There's a reason that some things just sound like shit regardless if it's played through a $75,000 turntable with a $6,000 cartridge and a $5,000 stylus or a clock radio. Some songs are simply recorded and mastered better than others.

As I said previously, most speakers, regardless of the cost, aren't capable of differentiating the minutia of difference between formats (vinyl, digital hard copy, mp3s, etc.) anyway. Headphones mitigate some of the problems that speakers have due to the direct coupling of the transducer to the ear, but they also have problems of their own in that it's hard to accurately reproduce true the full audible frequency spectrum with such a small, single transducer. Also, the soundstage presentation is never going to be accurately portrayed in headphone playback because of the direct coupling at such a severe, 180 degree positioning.

This is frustrating in the sense that I am just done with the whole buying the new floormat dealio. CD's I am pretty happy wiht what I have I was just hoping to take it up a few notches.

googlegoogle
01-25-2010, 05:39 PM
What is the best kind of headphones for $20 - I am not an audiophile but a cheap skate that likes to listen to music loud

read the reviews at walmart or amazon.

sony, sennheiser. shape of earpads can hurt after a while.

Pants
01-25-2010, 05:43 PM
This is frustrating in the sense that I am just done with the whole buying the new floormat dealio. CD's I am pretty happy wiht what I have I was just hoping to take it up a few notches.

Get a player that will play flac files and convert all your CD's to that format. Lossless audio, problem solved.

Saccopoo
01-25-2010, 06:58 PM
This is frustrating in the sense that I am just done with the whole buying the new floormat dealio. CD's I am pretty happy wiht what I have I was just hoping to take it up a few notches.

What ear muffs are you currently using?

BIG_DADDY
01-25-2010, 09:45 PM
What ear muffs are you currently using?

Denon AH-D 1001's. Highly recommend them. If you are patient you can find them for under $100. I paid like $120. They are awesome for the price.

BIG_DADDY
01-25-2010, 09:46 PM
Get a player that will play flac files and convert all your CD's to that format. Lossless audio, problem solved.

Thanks

BIG_DADDY
01-25-2010, 09:57 PM
Get a player that will play flac files and convert all your CD's to that format. Lossless audio, problem solved.

Any suggestions? I assume an IPOD won't get the job done

Miles
01-25-2010, 10:24 PM
Any suggestions? I assume an IPOD won't get the job done

You could try the apple lossless format which is integrated with iTunes and will play on an iPod. 320 kbps MP3s also works fairly well but if the recording itself was well done lossless is worth the extra storage space.

Saccopoo
01-25-2010, 10:26 PM
Denon AH-D 1001's. Highly recommend them. If you are patient you can find them for under $100. I paid like $120. They are awesome for the price.

I've got a pair of Sennheiser HD-580's that I never use. I'm not much of a headphone guy. Use my stereo for critical listening and have a bunch of junker headphones if I happen to need them for my iPod. Best of that bunch is some Sennheiser something or other ear bud thingys. Just grab whatever is closest.

Miles
01-25-2010, 10:34 PM
That's not my question. I love the Dennon's and have pretty much figured out I am going with the AH-D7000's eventually. My question is on headphone amps. Everyone seems to rage about the headroom amps. I was wondering if anyone knew of anything comparable at cheaper prices. I have their $99 portable amp now and really like it. I will probably stay with what I have for the next few months but wanted to put this out there so I can do my proper due diligence.

I use an EMU 0202 USB which appeared to be one of the least expensive ways to get an amp and DAC and I am very satisfied with it. However if you are looking to upgrade to something like the D7000's you will probably need something more.

You can find a lot of info at the forums on http://www.head-fi.org/

rtmike
01-25-2010, 11:26 PM
Our daughter ruined two pair of headphones in a weeks time including my Bose pair.

I went up to Best Buy & asked for the best headphones they had. They hooked me up with a set of Monster Beats. I listened to the display phones & the hair on the back of my neck stood up.

I can't handle the ear bud phones.

Listening to you guys' it sounds as though I missed the train & there's a lot better out there. My fault as I didn't research it enough, relied on BB.

What would you'all recommend for MP3 players? According to Miles I could continue with thinking about an ITouch since it has the lossless capability.

I'm off to google WTH lossless means? :D Same with flac. Hell I didn't know you could use amps, how cool is that.

Miles
01-25-2010, 11:43 PM
Our daughter ruined two pair of headphones in a weeks time including my Bose pair.

I went up to Best Buy & asked for the best headphones they had. They hooked me up with a set of Monster Beats. I listened to the display phones & the hair on the back of my neck stood up.

I can't handle the ear bud phones.

Listening to you guys' it sounds as though I missed the train & there's a lot better out there. My fault as I didn't research it enough, relied on BB.

What would you'all recommend for MP3 players? According to Miles I could continue with thinking about an ITouch since it has the lossless capability.

I'm off to google WTH lossless means? :D Same with flac. Hell I didn't know you could use amps, how cool is that.

Lossless just means that it isn't compressed which results in various reductions in fidelity to shrink the file size. With lossless the files will be the same as if they were off a CD. FLAC is just a popular codec that is lossless but isn't compatible with apple products.

If you primarily listen to any form of rock I would highly recommend looking into Grado SR80s. They can be found for roughly $100 and don't really need an amp (will work just fine off a soundcard / mp3 player). The next big step up would be the SR225's and they also don't necessarily need an amp. The have a list of local dealers on http://www.gradolabs.com/

Pants
01-26-2010, 08:27 AM
Any suggestions? I assume an IPOD won't get the job done

You can do some research on teh intrawebs, I'd probably go with a good old Cowon, which will play any file that currently exists on earth, including APPLE lossless. It's not nearly as cool as an iPod, but the quality of sound with the file extentions it supports make it a much better choice. But once again, it's your money, do your due dilligence.

Saccopoo
01-26-2010, 12:15 PM
I'm off to google WTH lossless means? :D Same with flac. Hell I didn't know you could use amps, how cool is that.

The only reason you need an amp is if the output of your device isn't enough to drive the speakers due to the (in)efficiency of the drivers used, their impedance/load, etc. The intra-aural/earbud type headphones don't require an amp at all. Waste of money if that's what you use.

If you use larger, on-ear, open designs (like my Sennheiser 580's or the like), depending upon what you are using to drive them, you may want to look at a headphone amp of some kind. Usually the headphone output stage found on most receivers or front end digital devices is way more than adequate to drive any type of headphones. If you are listening to analog, or via a small device like an iPod and using the larger open designs, you might consider an amp.

Saccopoo
01-26-2010, 12:24 PM
Lossless just means that it isn't compressed which results in various reductions in fidelity to shrink the file size. With lossless the files will be the same as if they were off a CD. FLAC is just a popular codec that is lossless but isn't compatible with apple products.

Even a CD has compression. Plus you have to deal with the bit rate transfer, the digital to analog conversion, they actual mechanical functions of retrieving the signal from a cd, etc. I've done some listening comparisons between some of my better recordings on my high-end stereo rig played through the CD player and the same recording transferred over to my iPod and play through the iPod via the preamps inputs and you'd be extremely hard pressed to tell the difference between the two - if at all in a blind listening comparison.

CD's were a nice thing, a real convenience, but they are 25 year old technology and should have been upgraded 12 years ago. Unfortunately, one company thought that they would once again try to control the format and basically ended up screwing up the entire thing and set the entire audio community back in the process. (Well, the entire audio community with the exception of the analog guys and the iPod/MP3 player folks.) Greed is not a good thing.

Pants
01-26-2010, 12:29 PM
Even a CD has compression. Plus you have to deal with the bit rate transfer, the digital to analog conversion, they actual mechanical functions of retrieving the signal from a cd, etc. I've done some listening comparisons between some of my better recordings on my high-end stereo rig played through the CD player and the same recording transferred over to my iPod and play through the iPod via the preamps inputs and you'd be extremely hard pressed to tell the difference between the two - if at all in a blind listening comparison.

CD's were a nice thing, a real convenience, but they are 25 year old technology and should have been upgraded 12 years ago. Unfortunately, one company thought that they would once again try to control the format and basically ended up screwing up the entire thing and set the entire audio community back in the process. (Well, the entire audio community with the exception of the analog guys and the iPod/MP3 player folks.) Greed is not a good thing.

You talking about the MiniDisc? ROFL

Pushead2
01-26-2010, 12:37 PM
After spending alot of money on my record studio and being half way successful with it. I won't listen to anything anymore unles it's a master, Wav or CD. MP3 320k is ok for standard listening, but if you want that full experience definitely only CDs, Masters, or WAV files. As far as headphones for under $20 for the cheap skate :D, go with Skull Candy but they don't have that much life because of the cheapo cord. But still worth the $14.99. For people that want good Headphones under $100 I recommend Sony 7506's. I've been mixing on them for a few years now and they offer a great listening experience. Want to spend money then you move up to the AKG K701's which I use for final mix down but they require hardcore break in period. They sound amazing with masters or WAVs. As for a headphone amp I use a Presonus HP60, I've had deaf drummers all the way to a 15 piece live session. With 3 of these I'm all set..

Pushead2
01-26-2010, 12:41 PM
For speakers for anyone wondering I use Genelec 1032's with a Genelec 7050 sub. For reference nothing but the classic NS-10s. Sound so bad but yet so great for reference mixes.

Saccopoo
01-26-2010, 12:48 PM
You talking about the MiniDisc? ROFL

No, but you are getting warmer.

Saccopoo
01-26-2010, 12:54 PM
After spending alot of money on my record studio and being half way successful with it. I won't listen to anything anymore unles it's a master, Wav or CD. MP3 320k is ok for standard listening, but if you want that full experience definitely only CDs, Masters, or WAV files. As far as headphones for under $20 for the cheap skate :D, go with Skull Candy but they don't have that much life because of the cheapo cord. But still worth the $14.99. For people that want good Headphones under $100 I recommend Sony 7506's. I've been mixing on them for a few years now and they offer a great listening experience. Want to spend money then you move up to the AKG K701's which I use for final mix down but they require hardcore break in period. They sound amazing with masters or WAVs. As for a headphone amp I use a Presonus HP60, I've had deaf drummers all the way to a 15 piece live session. With 3 of these I'm all set..

I'll second the Sony 7506 recommendation. Very good headphones. A closed ear design that offers good, accurate reproduction.

I will argue with you on the "break-in" period on any type of headphone though. The diaphragms on any headphones are so small that there is no way possible that there is any type of "break-in" period - at least from a mechanical perspective. There might be a "break-in" period, but it's the adjustment period that you will have in getting familiarized with the specific sound of that piece of equipment - not a mechanical "warm up" period of any kind.

Pushead2
01-26-2010, 01:16 PM
I'll second the Sony 7506 recommendation. Very good headphones. A closed ear design that offers good, accurate reproduction.

I will argue with you on the "break-in" period on any type of headphone though. The diaphragms on any headphones are so small that there is no way possible that there is any type of "break-in" period - at least from a mechanical perspective. There might be a "break-in" period, but it's the adjustment period that you will have in getting familiarized with the specific sound of that piece of equipment - not a mechanical "warm up" period of any kind.


you could be right too on that's what I was hearing.