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View Full Version : Life Montessori -vs- Waldorf schooling


BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 09:34 AM
Well it's time to start looking for a preschool. Been to a number of Montessori schools and was pretty impressed. I have also heard good things from parents who sent their kids there. I have a friend raging about this Waldorf system now. I still need to check that out. What I am looking for is anyone who has experience with either system as both are available to me. What I noticed right off the bat is that the inoculation rates in these top schools is very low. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

tooge
02-10-2010, 09:39 AM
Where's Waldorf?

KC native
02-10-2010, 09:40 AM
Montessori for preschool is overkill.

|Zach|
02-10-2010, 09:42 AM
Montessori doesn't really seem to allow kids to be kids.

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 09:47 AM
Montessori doesn't really seem to allow kids to be kids.

At 3 it's only for 3 hours. When I took him to a Motessori school he seemed very interested in the learning tools they had. I also took him to a very highly rated Chritian school that is a fraction of the price and he was happy there too but was playing more than really being interested in their learning tools.

Toadkiller
02-10-2010, 09:48 AM
We go to a waldorf school and love it. Even better it is a public charter so doesn't cost like a private waldorf school costs. I highly recommend the waldorf education though.

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 09:51 AM
We go to a waldorf school and love it. Even better it is a public charter so doesn't cost like a private waldorf school costs. I highly recommend the waldorf education though.

What is it that you like about it? They don't start them in Waldorf here until they are 6.

tooge
02-10-2010, 10:00 AM
We did the montessori thing for 2 years. My kids do extremely well in public school now, but they did extremely well there too. I dont think it has anything at all to do with the school. It has to do with the parents making sure they are involved in the kids education and teaching the children to take pride in being at the top of the class. There were punks, dirtbags, loser parents, and dumbasses in montessorial school, and there are the same number of them in the public school. Looking back, it was sort of a waste of money. Course, my children are brilliant :)

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 10:04 AM
We did the montessori thing for 2 years. My kids do extremely well in public school now, but they did extremely well there too. I dont think it has anything at all to do with the school. It has to do with the parents making sure they are involved in the kids education and teaching the children to take pride in being at the top of the class. There were punks, dirtbags, loser parents, and dumbasses in montessorial school, and there are the same number of them in the public school. Looking back, it was sort of a waste of money. Course, my children are brilliant :)

Public school just isn't an option for me. Our christian school is off the charts and very reasonable. They compete in every brain competition in the state and have an extremely high rate for getting scholorships. IMO the public school system has become a total joke. The christian school also has competing athletic teams starting in 5th grade which is how it should be. Tons of physical activity, even in preschool.

KC native
02-10-2010, 10:06 AM
We did the montessori thing for 2 years. My kids do extremely well in public school now, but they did extremely well there too. I dont think it has anything at all to do with the school. It has to do with the parents making sure they are involved in the kids education and teaching the children to take pride in being at the top of the class. There were punks, dirtbags, loser parents, and dumbasses in montessorial school, and there are the same number of them in the public school. Looking back, it was sort of a waste of money. Course, my children are brilliant :)

This. I have a good friend whose kid is in Montessori and my son is way ahead of him. He's paying $5,000 a year to send his kid to a school where he isn't learning much. I've told him repeatedly that if he were to do more work with his son as far as schooling is concerned he would do much better.

I send my son to a preschool that has a school type curriculum but it is intertwined with fun activities and he loves it.

Edit: We also put a lot of effort into my son's education. We read everyday (and he sees his parents read). We work on numbers and just started working on time.

Toadkiller
02-10-2010, 10:08 AM
What is it that you like about it? They don't start them in Waldorf here until they are 6.

I was trying to put into words why we like the Waldorf school system but was being all rambled. I then googled it and this guy pretty much sums it up for me.

http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/lockers/users/f/felder/public/kenny/essays/waldorf.html

tooge
02-10-2010, 10:10 AM
Public school just isn't an option for me. Our christian school is off the charts and very reasonable. They compete in every brain competition in the state and have an extremely high rate for getting scholorships. IMO the public school system has become a total joke. The christian school also has competing athletic teams starting in 5th grade which is how it should be. Tons of physical activity, even in preschool.

Yeah, there is surely a very big difference in schools where you are and schools where I am. The Liberty, Mo. school district is very well regarded.

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 10:12 AM
This. I have a good friend whose kid is in Montessori and my son is way ahead of him. He's paying $5,000 a year to send his kid to a school where he isn't learning much. I've told him repeatedly that if he were to do more work with his son as far as schooling is concerned he would do much better.

I send my son to a preschool that has a school type curriculum but it is intertwined with fun activities and he loves it.

I am not sure what Montessori school he went to. My understanding is there is a wide range of activities and credentials at different schools. The last one I looked at had a huge playground. They also had a big garden and grew their own food and cooked what they grew. The christian school is huge and has tons of activities as another option.

One of my concerns is they will try and catch other students up. He is 2 and a half now and already counts, does his ABC's and is starting to read. Wherever he goes I want them to take him where he is at to the next level instead of having generic teaching designed to hold everyone back to the weakest link like they do in public schools.

kepp
02-10-2010, 10:12 AM
Waldorf salads rock

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 10:13 AM
I was trying to put into words why we like the Waldorf school system but was being all rambled. I then googled it and this guy pretty much sums it up for me.

http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/lockers/users/f/felder/public/kenny/essays/waldorf.html

Thanks

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 10:16 AM
Yeah, there is surely a very big difference in schools where you are and schools where I am. The Liberty, Mo. school district is very well regarded.

Let me give you an example of just how good the Christian school is. 3 years ago when my cousins kid graduated everyone graduated and went on to college except for 2. Many of them had scholorships. My cousins kid already had enough credits to cover more than a year of college. I would challenge any regular public school to even come close to those numbers.

Fat Elvis
02-10-2010, 10:17 AM
I was trying to put into words why we like the Waldorf school system but was being all rambled. I then googled it and this guy pretty much sums it up for me.

http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/lockers/users/f/felder/public/kenny/essays/waldorf.html

Rainbow bridge ceremony? No thanks.

Pitt Gorilla
02-10-2010, 10:18 AM
At that age, it simply doesn't matter. Take your kid somewhere where he can have fun and socialize.

|Zach|
02-10-2010, 10:18 AM
Let me give you an example of just how good the Christian school is. 3 years ago when my cousins kid graduated everyone graduated and went on to college except for 2. Many of them had scholorships. My cousins kid already had enough credits to cover more than a year of college. I would challenge any regular public school to even come close to those numbers.

At my public school at least...if you wanted to make it happen you could. The opportunity was there for you. My good friend Evan was in the same situation.

eazyb81
02-10-2010, 10:18 AM
I went to Montessori and I turned out okay...right?

tooge
02-10-2010, 10:18 AM
The main reason I wanted to take them to public school was that I moved around alot as a kid and it always sucked being the new kid in school. My carreer affords me the ability to keep my kids on one place. I thought it would be great to be able to start forming lifelong friendships and a name for themselves in the area if they began kindergarden and stayed in the same district throughout highschool. I didn't ever want them to have to be "the kid fromthe private school" if and when they eventually moved to public school, so we moved them for kindergarder. It's worked well for us. I'm sure whatever you do will be fine simply because you care.

Fat Elvis
02-10-2010, 10:22 AM
Let me give you an example of just how good the Christian school is. 3 years ago when my cousins kid graduated everyone graduated and went on to college except for 2. Many of them had scholorships. My cousins kid already had enough credits to cover more than a year of college. I would challenge any regular public school to even come close to those numbers.

Public schools aren't going to come close because people who send thier kids to private school are typically more invested in their kids education. If you're spending 5-10K/year, you're going to make sure your kid succeeds in school. Free ride education means that a significant number of parents have thier kids in school because they are required by law.

It isn't necessarily because a school is better; it is the amount of investment (timewise, not dollarwise) that will predict how a kid will do in school.

COchief
02-10-2010, 10:25 AM
These kids just figured out that it isn't a very good idea to shit in their pants and walk around and sit down in it. Does it really matter where they play with their "ABC" blocks? Plus you either have a dumb kid or smart kid, no new age preschool learning program is going to change that.

eazyb81
02-10-2010, 10:25 AM
I think the main problem with public schooling now is that there is too much focus on catching the slow/unmotivated kids up with everyone else, rather than pushing the bright kids.

Also, when every parent is paying thousands per year to send a kid to private school, there is an incentive to "get your money's worth" by making sure the kid reads, does his homework, stays involved, etc, and it helps a kid's development when all the other kids he interacts with are pushed the same way.

KC native
02-10-2010, 10:26 AM
I am not sure what Montessori school he went to. My understanding is there is a wide range of activities and credentials at different schools. The last one I looked at had a huge playground. They also had a big garden and grew their own food and cooked what they grew. The christian school is huge and has tons of activities as another option.

One of my concerns is they will try and catch other students up. He is 2 and a half now and already counts, does his ABC's and is starting to read. Wherever he goes I want them to take him where he is at to the next level instead of having generic teaching designed to hold everyone back to the weakest link like they do in public schools.

Don't get me wrong I think Montessori is good (provided you want to pay for it) once they've made it to grade school levels. At pre-school the kids just don't have what it takes to make it worth it.

On your concerns that's something you should talk to the preschool people about. My wife did the searching and that was one of the questions she would ask. If you don't like the answer they give you, try someone else.

IMO, the most important part of a kid's education is the parents. I got A's going through public schools because I was expected to get A's. I wasn't allowed to bring home B's and C's (and I got hell if I did). I never got any money for getting A's. It was what I was supposed to do. If you set the expectations for your son then he will want to live up to what his parents want as long as you give him the attention and affection he desires.

tooge
02-10-2010, 10:27 AM
Public schools aren't going to come close because people who send thier kids to private school are typically more invested in their kids education. If you're spending 5-10K/year, you're going to make sure your kid succeeds in school. Free ride education means that a significant number of parents have thier kids in school because they are required by law.

It isn't necessarily because a school is better; it is the amount of investment (timewise, not dollarwise) that will predict how a kid will do in school.

Totally false. Some of the biggest dipshits I have ever encountered were parents and kids at the "private" preschool our kids attended. I'm sure they are all different, and the one we went to is very well regarded around here. Some of the people were just very wealthy and more into letting everyone else know that than anything else. Remember, kids dont get to choose their parents. Also, being wealthy doesn't mean you cant be a moron.

KC native
02-10-2010, 10:28 AM
Public schools aren't going to come close because people who send thier kids to private school are typically more invested in their kids education. If you're spending 5-10K/year, you're going to make sure your kid succeeds in school. Free ride education means that a significant number of parents have thier kids in school because they are required by law.

It isn't necessarily because a school is better; it is the amount of investment (timewise, not dollarwise) that will predict how a kid will do in school.

This

|Zach|
02-10-2010, 10:29 AM
I think the main problem with public schooling now is that there is too much focus on catching the slow/unmotivated kids up with everyone else, rather than pushing the bright kids.

Also, when every parent is paying thousands per year to send a kid to private school, there is an incentive to "get your money's worth" by making sure the kid reads, does his homework, stays involved, etc, and it helps a kid's development when all the other kids he interacts with are pushed the same way.

I don't think any of this is wrong and all I have to base this on was my public school experience in Blue Springs but...

If a student was committed to excelling, those opportunities were there for them. In AP classes and all kinds of accelerated paths and special support.

KC native
02-10-2010, 10:30 AM
Totally false. Some of the biggest dipshits I have ever encountered were parents and kids at the "private" preschool our kids attended. I'm sure they are all different, and the one we went to is very well regarded around here. Some of the people were just very wealthy and more into letting everyone else know that than anything else. Remember, kids dont get to choose their parents. Also, being wealthy doesn't mean you cant be a moron.

Dipshits or douchebags? Even if they were annoying as shit and seemed stupid, I bet they set they education expectations wrt their kids high and the kids know they are supposed to live up to that.

|Zach|
02-10-2010, 10:32 AM
Dipshits or douchebags? Even if they were annoying as shit and seemed stupid, I bet they set they education expectations wrt their kids high and the kids know they are supposed to live up to that.

Yea, they set the education expectations high and then drop them in the school and just leave it at that.

tooge
02-10-2010, 10:32 AM
I don't think any of this is wrong and all I have to base this on was my public school experience in Blue Springs but...

If a student was committed to excelling, those opportunities were there for them. In AP classes and all kinds of accelerated paths and special support.

Not to mention that when kids get to college they all start over anyhow. My dental school appication process never involved any highschool transcrips, only college. And, speaking of kids getting acedemic scholarships, I'm not sure of the math, but 5 to 10 grand a year spend on a private school would pretty much take care of college by the time a child graduates no?

|Zach|
02-10-2010, 10:34 AM
Not to mention that when kids get to college they all start over anyhow. My dental school appication process never involved any highschool transcrips, only college. And, speaking of kids getting acedemic scholarships, I'm not sure of the math, but 5 to 10 grand a year spend on a private school would pretty much take care of college by the time a child graduates no?

Well it is supported in a roundabout way.

You get your degree faster.

While someone may not get your HS transcripts if you did college class A in HS and when you got to college you got to start with Class B rather than A then you are getting that value and step up out of it. The validation of that is on the colleges end.

MOhillbilly
02-10-2010, 10:35 AM
my parents sent me to a private school. I will never forgive them.

Chiefnj2
02-10-2010, 10:35 AM
It depends on the school. Montessori is an approach to schooling. Different schools will run the program differently. I know someone who sent their son (age 4) to Montessori and pulled him out after half a year. The child was learning a lot but wasn't having fun. Every morning was a battle to get the kid dressed and off to school. He pulled him and put him in a regular program and the kid now loves his new school.

eazyb81
02-10-2010, 10:36 AM
Not to mention that when kids get to college they all start over anyhow. My dental school appication process never involved any highschool transcrips, only college. And, speaking of kids getting acedemic scholarships, I'm not sure of the math, but 5 to 10 grand a year spend on a private school would pretty much take care of college by the time a child graduates no?

If they were never pushed in high school, why do you expect they would suddenly be able to handle more demanding college classes that require intense studying?

I went to public school and barely had to open a book to get good grades, but college was a rude awakening. I had to essentially teach myself how to study and take notes at 18 years old. My younger brothers are in private school and have homework every night that is preparing them much better for the rigors of college.

Chiefnj2
02-10-2010, 10:36 AM
my parents sent me to a private school. I will never forgive them.

I hate to break it to you, but juvy hall is not a 'private school'.

Reaper16
02-10-2010, 10:37 AM
Looking back, I would be pissed if I had gone to a private school (in some fantasy universe where my family could have afforded it). There was plenty of opportunity for me in public school, especially with our district's gifted kids program. And the social oppurtunity at public school is something I wouldn't want to have missed. I turned down the Missouri Academy (spending your junior and senior years of highs school at college, dual-credit the whole way, invite-only, big international presence) because I didn't want to lose those last two years of high school with friends. I don't regret it.

KCNative is dead-on with the importance of parents. My expectations were excellence from the very beginning. And I will always be thankful for my mom teaching me to read so early; I was reading at age 2. That gave me such a head start that I didn't need to go to preschool (and I could have skipped a couple of grades if they'd have let me). Parents -- teach your kids to read as soon as you can.

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 10:37 AM
Public schools aren't going to come close because people who send thier kids to private school are typically more invested in their kids education. If you're spending 5-10K/year, you're going to make sure your kid succeeds in school. Free ride education means that a significant number of parents have thier kids in school because they are required by law.

It isn't necessarily because a school is better; it is the amount of investment (timewise, not dollarwise) that will predict how a kid will do in school.

Come on man. I remember some of the teachers I had in the public school system should have been institutionalized not teaching kids. Were there good one's sure. There were also some really bad one's who would never come close to making it in a good private school and did more damage than good. At the very least they were a complete waste of time. You're telling me you honestly don't think there in another standard in a good private school?

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 10:38 AM
I think the main problem with public schooling now is that there is too much focus on catching the slow/unmotivated kids up with everyone else, rather than pushing the bright kids.

.

Absolutely

MOhillbilly
02-10-2010, 10:44 AM
I hate to break it to you, but juvy hall is not a 'private school'.

:) i love this place.

Fat Elvis
02-10-2010, 10:45 AM
Come on man. I remember some of the teachers I had in the public school system should have been institutionalized not teaching kids. Were there good one's sure. There were also some really bad one's who would never come close to making it in a good private school and did more damage than good. At the very least they were a complete waste of time. You're telling me you honestly don't think there in another standard in a good private school?

We obviously had very different experiences in public school. For what it is worth, my step-daughter currently goes to a private Catholic school and her mother and I are trying to get her out of there because the teachers suck.

MOhillbilly
02-10-2010, 10:47 AM
Looking back, I would be pissed if I had gone to a private school (in some fantasy universe where my family could have afforded it). There was plenty of opportunity for me in public school, especially with our district's gifted kids program. And the social oppurtunity at public school is something I wouldn't want to have missed. I turned down the Missouri Academy (spending your junior and senior years of highs school at college, dual-credit the whole way, invite-only, big international presence) because I didn't want to lose those last two years of high school with friends. I don't regret it.



Who was your 6th grade teacher?

NewChief
02-10-2010, 10:47 AM
Let me give you an example of just how good the Christian school is. 3 years ago when my cousins kid graduated everyone graduated and went on to college except for 2. Many of them had scholorships. My cousins kid already had enough credits to cover more than a year of college. I would challenge any regular public school to even come close to those numbers.

Heh. We graduate quite a few kids every year with those kind of numbers from the school where I teach. Lots of kids graduate with over 16 AP courses under their belts.

We have 20+ national merit scholars every year as well.

So yeah... suck it. ;)

NewChief
02-10-2010, 10:49 AM
FYI: Maria Montessori was a committed socialist.

MOhillbilly
02-10-2010, 10:50 AM
Come on man. I remember some of the teachers I had in the public school system should have been institutionalized not teaching kids. Were there good one's sure. There were also some really bad one's who would never come close to making it in a good private school and did more damage than good. At the very least they were a complete waste of time. You're telling me you honestly don't think there in another standard in a good private school?

it depends on the funding in the private school compared to public school district. It makes a huge difference imo in the amount & quality of teachers and material.

KC native
02-10-2010, 10:51 AM
FYI: Maria Montessori was a committed socialist.

OH NOES!1101011!!!0101!!!!10101!!! sOsalizT !!101010101!10101!01!10!!!11101

tooge
02-10-2010, 10:51 AM
If they were never pushed in high school, why do you expect they would suddenly be able to handle more demanding college classes that require intense studying?

I went to public school and barely had to open a book to get good grades, but college was a rude awakening. I had to essentially teach myself how to study and take notes at 18 years old. My younger brothers are in private school and have homework every night that is preparing them much better for the rigors of college.

again, that comes back to parenting. If they were never pushed in highschool who's fault is that? My son is in first grade and has homework every single night. He has a reading assignment and a math assignment that we make sure we are involved with. I'm not superparent or anything, it is really just common sense.

Reaper16
02-10-2010, 10:55 AM
Who was your 6th grade teacher?
My middle school had two different 3-teacher teams for 6th graders. The year I was in 6th grade they had an additional 2-teacher team that was sort of an experiment to see if sustained relationships with fewer teachers would make any difference. My two 6th grade teachers were Mrs. Miller and Ms. Gruginski.

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 11:00 AM
FYI: Maria Montessori was a committed socialist.

I am not really concerned about her personal problems I am just trying to find the best teaching method. There is some cocern that some private schools may be a little mamby pamby especially considering the Waldorf school is in Ashland. I am really looking through preschool at this point. I am very impressed with Grace Christian and it will really take something special to get me from sending him there for grade school/high school. Athletics, competition and all that is critical as well.

|Zach|
02-10-2010, 11:01 AM
FYI: Maria Montessori was a committed socialist.

ROFL

Toadkiller
02-10-2010, 11:02 AM
Rainbow bridge ceremony? No thanks.

Why no thanks? In our school it was more of a moving on ceremony, from kindergarten into the "big" school. The older kids welcomed the younger kids into the school with a song, it was actually very nice.

NewChief
02-10-2010, 11:03 AM
I am not really concerned about her personal problems I am just trying to find the best teaching method. There is some cocern that some private schools may be a little mamby pamby especially considering the Waldorf school is in Ashland. I am really looking through preschool at this point. I am very impressed with Grace Christian and it will really take something special to get me from sending him there for grade school/high school. Athletics, competition and all that is critical as well.

The reason I bring it up is that her teaching style was intended as a socialist teaching style to create good socialist citizens. That being said, most people don't see it as being something that really promotes socialism.

I've heard good things about Waldorf, but I've also heard it's a little hippie.

MOhillbilly
02-10-2010, 11:04 AM
My middle school had two different 3-teacher teams for 6th graders. The year I was in 6th grade they had an additional 2-teacher team that was sort of an experiment to see if sustained relationships with fewer teachers would make any difference. My two 6th grade teachers were Mrs. Miller and Ms. Gruginski.

Just wondering my grandmother and her best friend were both teachers at the middle school.
But you did probably go to school with my cousin/s.

vailpass
02-10-2010, 11:07 AM
Montessori for preschool is overkill.

All 3 of my sons attended Montessori as 3 year olds. For my children it was an excellent lead-up to pre-school. No emphasis on reading, writing, math, etc. instead a free-flowing environment where young children discover the tactile world at their own pace while socializing and taking the first step toward being separated from their parents during the day.

On what do you base the above opinion? Are you familiar with the Montessori method?

tooge
02-10-2010, 11:11 AM
All 3 of my sons attended Montessori as 3 year olds. For my children it was an excellent lead-up to pre-school. No emphasis on reading, writing, math, etc. instead a free-flowing environment where young children discover the tactile world at their own pace while socializing and taking the first step toward being separated from their parents during the day.

On what do you base the above opinion? Are you ufamiliar with the Montessori method?

Not trying to start anything here, but isn't that the same as daycare with lots of toys and no tv?

MOhillbilly
02-10-2010, 11:12 AM
All 3 of my sons attended Montessori as 3 year olds. For my children it was an excellent lead-up to pre-school. No emphasis on reading, writing, math, etc. instead a free-flowing environment where young children discover the tactile world at their own pace while socializing and taking the first step toward being separated from their parents during the day.

On what do you base the above opinion? Are you ufamiliar with the Montessori method?


sounds like hippie communism. 3 year olds need to be pickin rocks and learnin that talkin back will get your bell rung.

tooge
02-10-2010, 11:18 AM
sounds like hippie communism. 3 year olds need to be pickin rocks and learnin that talkin back will get your bell rung.

and catchin frogs and lizards, eatin ants and dirt, pullin pinchers off crawdads, stuff like that. Watchin my kids do those things at that age was priceless.

vailpass
02-10-2010, 11:20 AM
Not trying to start anything here, but isn't that the same as daycare with lots of toys and no tv?

My wife is at home, we have never used day care and never will. My wife and I are heavily involved in our son's schooling. We support our teachers, we believe they are our partners in education our children.

IMHO every parent is entitled to their own views on education; I wouldn't force mine on anyone.
For us, 3 years old is a time to explore your world in a stimulating setting that shapes you to be open to all experiences. To socialize, to find and accept stimulation, to begin to open up a sense of wonder and curiosity about all the world around you.
For us the Montessori experience worked to accomplish exactly that.
The following year our boys began pre-school in the Catholic school system where they will remain through prep school.
FWIW our kindergarten teacher is against Montessori; she believes the structure does adequately reflect the traditional classroom.

MOhillbilly
02-10-2010, 11:20 AM
and catchin frogs and lizards, eatin ants and dirt, pullin pinchers off crawdads, stuff like that. Watchin my kids do those things at that age was priceless.


hell, i still like to do those things.

vailpass
02-10-2010, 11:23 AM
sounds like hippie communism. 3 year olds need to be pickin rocks and learnin that talkin back will get your bell rung.

When he was 3 my youngest nearly broke a clipboard over another kid's head because the kid reached down and untied his shoes. You don't need to teach little boys to rock and roll, you need to teach them when not to IMHO.

RJ
02-10-2010, 11:30 AM
IMHO every parent is entitled to their own views on education; I wouldn't force mine on anyone.



Exactly. We all make what we think/hope are the best decisions for our children based on the choices available to us. And while we are sure to make mistakes, the good news is that our kids will likely turn out fine despite us.

Incidentally, our daughter also has traveled the Montessori and the Catholic school trail. So far so good, though the two are nothing alike.

Oddly, we ended up taking our daughter out of Montessori because we thought it was too structured. We wanted her to spend more time playing than what was being allowed and we didn't need them for day care. I don't think every Montessori operates the same way.

Reaper16
02-10-2010, 11:32 AM
Just wondering my grandmother and her best friend were both teachers at the middle school.
But you did probably go to school with my cousin/s.
I probably know the teachers and your cousins. Depends on the time-frame. I'm 23 years old.

RJ
02-10-2010, 11:34 AM
When he was 3 my youngest nearly broke a clipboard over another kid's head because the kid reached down and untied his shoes. You don't need to teach little boys to rock and roll, you need to teach them when not to IMHO.


LOL, ain't that the truth? I'm still doing the volunteer thing at my daughter's school once a week and I can attest that the first grade boys need no encouragement to "rock and roll". They do it just fine every time I turn my back. Little fuggers.

vailpass
02-10-2010, 11:52 AM
LOL, ain't that the truth? I'm still doing the volunteer thing at my daughter's school once a week and I can attest that the first grade boys need no encouragement to "rock and roll". They do it just fine every time I turn my back. Little fuggers.

LMAO Yep. Funny how some react to the concept of private school.

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 12:02 PM
LMAO Yep. Funny how some react to the concept of private school.

Sure wishing we had a voucher system. Options are a good thing.

wazimo
02-10-2010, 12:20 PM
Hi Big Daddy,

My son goes to a Montessori school in Atlanta and I am on the board. WE spend a lot of money on the education but he seems to really thrive in this environment. Please bear this in mind. Look for a school with the AMI certification. The teachers who have this teaching certificate are in as much higher demand and therefore appear to be more qualified. I think that many independent schools can call themselves Montessori, that is why choosing an AMI certified one is so crucial. As far as too much structure and too little play time, I don't see that. My sons class has a awesome play area with climbing frames, slides etc. He goes out from 3:30 - 5:50pm everyday, weather permitting.

I would ask the various schools for a curriculum so you can compare apples to apples. If you need to contact me directly feel free. Please note, we also do not immunize.

Malcolm

NewChief
02-10-2010, 12:28 PM
Hi Big Daddy,

My son goes to a Montessori school in Atlanta and I am on the board. WE spend a lot of money on the education but he seems to really thrive in this environment. Please bear this in mind. Look for a school with the AMI certification. The teachers who have this teaching certificate are in as much higher demand and therefore appear to be more qualified. I think that many independent schools can call themselves Montessori, that is why choosing an AMI certified one is so crucial. As far as too much structure and too little play time, I don't see that. My sons class has a awesome play area with climbing frames, slides etc. He goes out from 3:30 - 5:50pm everyday, weather permitting.

I would ask the various schools for a curriculum so you can compare apples to apples. If you need to contact me directly feel free. Please note, we also do not immunize.

Malcolm

Probably best advice on here. He's right about the certification. Lots of schools call themselves Montessori schools, but they aren't truly certified as such. If they aren't certified as such, they could basically just be a daycare that gives lip service to the Montessori methods.

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 12:38 PM
Hi Big Daddy,

My son goes to a Montessori school in Atlanta and I am on the board. WE spend a lot of money on the education but he seems to really thrive in this environment. Please bear this in mind. Look for a school with the AMI certification. The teachers who have this teaching certificate are in as much higher demand and therefore appear to be more qualified. I think that many independent schools can call themselves Montessori, that is why choosing an AMI certified one is so crucial. As far as too much structure and too little play time, I don't see that. My sons class has a awesome play area with climbing frames, slides etc. He goes out from 3:30 - 5:50pm everyday, weather permitting.

I would ask the various schools for a curriculum so you can compare apples to apples. If you need to contact me directly feel free. Please note, we also do not immunize.

Malcolm

The next one I am looking at is AMS certified.

RJ
02-10-2010, 12:40 PM
As far as too much structure and too little play time, I don't see that. My sons class has a awesome play area with climbing frames, slides etc. He goes out from 3:30 - 5:50pm everyday, weather permitting.





Thinking back on it, that was my issue with the play time. There was very little until the end of the "school" day, and our daughter usually was picked up at around the time they let them out.

Bweb
02-10-2010, 01:10 PM
Don't get me wrong I think Montessori is good (provided you want to pay for it) once they've made it to grade school levels. At pre-school the kids just don't have what it takes to make it worth it.

On your concerns that's something you should talk to the preschool people about. My wife did the searching and that was one of the questions she would ask. If you don't like the answer they give you, try someone else.

IMO, the most important part of a kid's education is the parents. I got A's going through public schools because I was expected to get A's. I wasn't allowed to bring home B's and C's (and I got hell if I did). I never got any money for getting A's. It was what I was supposed to do. If you set the expectations for your son then he will want to live up to what his parents want as long as you give him the attention and affection he desires.

This is what I had growing up and this is what I have done with my son's. It has worked for my family.

Fat Elvis
02-10-2010, 01:17 PM
Thinking back on it, that was my issue with the play time. There was very little until the end of the "school" day, and our daughter usually was picked up at around the time they let them out.

You aren't working hard enough or long enough. Slacker.

RJ
02-10-2010, 01:26 PM
You aren't working hard enough or long enough. Slacker.


You got me, FE. I'm a part of the Pussification Of Our PreSchoolers. We should have made her tough it out until 6:00.

Pitt Gorilla
02-10-2010, 01:30 PM
Come on man. I remember some of the teachers I had in the public school system should have been institutionalized not teaching kids. Were there good one's sure. There were also some really bad one's who would never come close to making it in a good private school and did more damage than good. At the very least they were a complete waste of time. You're telling me you honestly don't think there in another standard in a good private school?I've worked with teachers from good and bad public and private schools. If you think of the data as arranged for hierarchical linear modeling, there doesn't appear to be a generalized difference anywhere above the teacher level. In other words, the differences are highly individualized at the data point level, but not beyond it.

Regarding your child's development, I would recommend How People Learn by the National Research Council. Combined with other research on younger learners, it becomes pretty clear that pre-K advantages tend to plateau and students who didn't have those "advantages" will catch up. In other words, let your kid have fun and let him learn to love learning. Learning socialization skills and self-motivation to learn are much more important than ANY content they could gain in another context.

Inspector
02-10-2010, 01:39 PM
Looking back, I would be pissed if I had gone to a private school (in some fantasy universe where my family could have afforded it). There was plenty of opportunity for me in public school, especially with our district's gifted kids program. And the social oppurtunity at public school is something I wouldn't want to have missed. I turned down the Missouri Academy (spending your junior and senior years of highs school at college, dual-credit the whole way, invite-only, big international presence) because I didn't want to lose those last two years of high school with friends. I don't regret it.

KCNative is dead-on with the importance of parents. My expectations were excellence from the very beginning. And I will always be thankful for my mom teaching me to read so early; I was reading at age 2. That gave me such a head start that I didn't need to go to preschool (and I could have skipped a couple of grades if they'd have let me). Parents -- teach your kids to read as soon as you can.

Hmmmm....

All of my kids were reading by age 2, I thought that was the norm. Same with my grandkids. And yeah, they did pretty good in school.

Not sure what the norm is in regards to financial expectations as they relate to grades but three of my kids are very, very well off and just happened to have had the lower GPA of the 5. The other 2 do well also but the one who was the best grade earner has the lowest income.

Reaper16
02-10-2010, 01:44 PM
Hmmmm....

All of my kids were reading by age 2, I thought that was the norm. Same with my grandkids. And yeah, they did pretty good in school.

God Bless your family for that. It isn't the norm, though. The norm is for kids to still be learning how to read in 1st and 2nd grade.

NewChief
02-10-2010, 01:44 PM
Hmmmm....

All of my kids were reading by age 2, I thought that was the norm. Same with my grandkids. And yeah, they did pretty good in school.

Not sure what the norm is in regards to financial expectations as they relate to grades but three of my kids are very, very well off and just happened to have had the lower GPA of the 5. The other 2 do well also but the one who was the best grade earner has the lowest income.

No. Age 2 is not even close to the norm.

Inspector
02-10-2010, 01:49 PM
God Bless your family for that. It isn't the norm, though. The norm is for kids to still be learning how to read in 1st and 2nd grade.

Wow...I'm out of touch.

We didn't do anything special, just the regualr stuff, reading to them and all. We also worked a lot on phonics with them. I guess they had a good aptitude with that. They are all very normal people, none seem any brighter than any other regular kid. I guess maybe we got lucky.

Bout time we get lucky!

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 02:33 PM
I've worked with teachers from good and bad public and private schools. If you think of the data as arranged for hierarchical linear modeling, there doesn't appear to be a generalized difference anywhere above the teacher level. In other words, the differences are highly individualized at the data point level, but not beyond it.

Regarding your child's development, I would recommend How People Learn by the National Research Council. Combined with other research on younger learners, it becomes pretty clear that pre-K advantages tend to plateau and students who didn't have those "advantages" will catch up. In other words, let your kid have fun and let him learn to love learning. Learning socialization skills and self-motivation to learn are much more important than ANY content they could gain in another context.

He loves to learn, I'm not pushing him. His socializing is good. He plays really rough with me and knows that isn't going to fly with kids.

Pitt Gorilla
02-10-2010, 02:43 PM
He loves to learn, I'm not pushing him. His socializing is good. He plays really rough with me and knows that isn't going to fly with kids.As long as his preschool is a place that he can't wait to attend on a daily basis, you'll be fine. If he seems reluctant to go after a week or two, you should try something different.

Oh, and definitely read that book. It should be required reading for parenting.

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 02:46 PM
I called one of the Montessori schools with tons of certifications. The one thing I don't like about that school and some like it are they act like it is such a huge honor to have your child selected as so many are trying to get in. You can only come at a selected time with all the other parents trying to get in. Your child has no chance to see or interact with anyone before you have to decide. I hate that snobby bullshit. I am going to pay you to treat me like that? I don't think so.

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 02:48 PM
As long as his preschool is a place that he can't wait to attend on a daily basis, you'll be fine. If he seems reluctant to go after a week or two, you should try something different.

Oh, and definitely read that book. It should be required reading for parenting.

Cool, thanks.

DJ's left nut
02-10-2010, 02:53 PM
Well it's time to start looking for a preschool. Been to a number of Montessori schools and was pretty impressed. I have also heard good things from parents who sent their kids there. I have a friend raging about this Waldorf system now. I still need to check that out. What I am looking for is anyone who has experience with either system as both are available to me. What I noticed right off the bat is that the inoculation rates in these top schools is very low. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

The absolute best behaved child I have ever interacted with is a montessori product. He's about the only argument my wife has left as to having children (badass kid).

Now it may just be good parenting, but he's so polite, he doesn't lie, but he's still kindof an ornery little boy when you get him going. I always joke that he's like a well-trained labrador; hell of a lot of fun when you want him to be, but knows when it's time to shut it down.

His folks say that the montessori school is a little 'wishy washy' at times. It's extremely liberal, everything is about avoiding conflict, etc... Granted, it's Columbia, MO so everything's a little obnoxious down this way, but it's something to keep in mind. Ultimately it seems like they do a good job of instilling values and discipline, you just need to continue to monitor to make sure it doesn't make it all the way to indoctrinating them with puss-itis.

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 03:00 PM
His folks say that the montessori school is a little 'wishy washy' at times. It's extremely liberal, everything is about avoiding conflict, etc...

you just need to continue to monitor to make sure it doesn't make it all the way to indoctrinating them with puss-itis.

That's what the jiu-jitsu classes are going to be for. I really don't want to put him in an enviroment that will break his spirit. Knowing when to turn it on and off is great. Avoiding conflicts at all costs is not acceptable. Some schools have that run and snitch policy now. No way I put my kid through that.

vailpass
02-10-2010, 03:55 PM
No. Age 2 is not even close to the norm.

Was that a serious statement?

NewChief
02-10-2010, 04:26 PM
Was that a serious statement?

Yes. Reading at age 2 isn't close to the norm, from what I've seen. Many kids are reading by 3 or 4, but the majority really take off when they get into kindergarten, 1st, or 2nd grade.

vailpass
02-10-2010, 04:33 PM
Sure wishing we had a voucher system. Options are a good thing.

I'd vote for it. I wonder what the public educator's perspective is on vouchers?
Phin, what say you?

vailpass
02-10-2010, 04:35 PM
Yes. Reading at age 2 isn't close to the norm, from what I've seen. Many kids are reading by 3 or 4, but the majority really take off when they get into kindergarten, 1st, or 2nd grade.

Sorry, I was unclear. I meant was he serious in saying he thought reading at age 2 was the norm. At that rate they'd be doing algebra by age 4 and driving by age 9.

NewChief
02-10-2010, 04:37 PM
I'd vote for it. I wonder what the public educator's perspective is on vouchers?
Phin, what say you?

I don't have a big problem with the concept. My main problem is the way they're used, ideologically. They represent an ongoing effort, in my opinion, to completely do away with public education. Vouchers, imo, would lead to public schools drawing from the "low end" of the pool. This would then lead to even worse performance among public schools and increase the charges that public schooling is a failure. This would lead to the end goal of many proponents of vouchers: the completely dismantling of public education.

NewChief
02-10-2010, 04:38 PM
Sorry, I was unclear. I meant was he serious in saying he thought reading at age 2 was the norm. At that rate they'd be doing algebra by age 4 and driving by age 9.

Oh gotcha. I know Arkansas is a little backwards, but I was sincerely hoping that the rest of the country wasn't taking up reading at 2. Evidently he passes on the early reading gene to his kids or something.

DJ's left nut
02-10-2010, 04:40 PM
Oh gotcha. I know Arkansas is a little backwards, but I was sincerely hoping that the rest of the country wasn't taking up reading at 2. Evidently he passes on the early reading gene to his kids or something.

Mostly I was just wondering how far I had to move Vailpass up on my 'List of Pretentious Douchebags".

vailpass
02-10-2010, 04:42 PM
I don't have a big problem with the concept. My main problem is the way they're used, ideologically. They represent an ongoing effort, in my opinion, to completely do away with public education. Vouchers, imo, would lead to public schools drawing from the "low end" of the pool. This would then lead to even worse performance among public schools and increase the charges that public schooling is a failure. This would lead to the end goal of many proponents of vouchers: the completely dismantling of public education.

That makes perfect sense. Where I grew up (Cedar Rapids, IA) the public schools were excellent; the decision to send kids to private school was mainly religious since qulaity education could be had either way. It would seem there would not be a marked difference in enrollment in such a situation.

However in areas where the public schools aren't high quality it seems like the brain drain would be tremendous since private schools, through their admissions standards, would admit only the high potential students.

I understand and support the individual's preference to be able to guide his education tax dollars to the school of his choice. I can also see where this might not end up well for some public schools.

vailpass
02-10-2010, 04:43 PM
Mostly I was just wondering how far I had to move Vailpass up on my 'List of Pretentious Douchebags".

Why do you say so? I sure don't want to come across like that. I wasn't saying my kids read at age 2.

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 04:45 PM
I don't have a big problem with the concept. My main problem is the way they're used, ideologically. They represent an ongoing effort, in my opinion, to completely do away with public education. Vouchers, imo, would lead to public schools drawing from the "low end" of the pool. This would then lead to even worse performance among public schools and increase the charges that public schooling is a failure. This would lead to the end goal of many proponents of vouchers: the completely dismantling of public education.

Just call it public option education and we should all be good. Problem now is I get taxed to death and still have to pay for my kids entire education which isn't fair. You should also have to be a citizen to get your voucher. School performance would go through the roof.

DJ's left nut
02-10-2010, 04:46 PM
Why do you say so? I sure don't want to come across like that. I wasn't saying my kids read at age 2.

Just pullin' your chain.

It sounded a little like "You Philistine, all 2 year olds should be reading at a 3rd grade level or you've failed as a parent..."

vailpass
02-10-2010, 04:48 PM
Just pullin' your chain.

It sounded a little like "You Philistine, all 2 year olds should be reading at a 3rd grade level or you've failed as a parent..."

No, that was someone else who said their kids read at age 2 and they thought all kids did.
I had to laugh, sounds a little far fetched to me.
There are probably many reasons to call me a pretentious douchebag but I'm innocent on this one :D

RJ
02-10-2010, 04:51 PM
Mostly I was just wondering how far I had to move Vailpass up on my 'List of Pretentious Douchebags".


Hey, whoaaa there DJ. Vailpass is in no way a pretentious douchebag!

See there, VP, I got your back. :D

vailpass
02-10-2010, 04:51 PM
Hey, whoaaa there DJ. Vailpass is in no way a pretentious douchebag!

See there, VP, I got your back. :D

:) Damn right! I'm not pretending at all!

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 04:52 PM
All 3 of my sons attended Montessori as 3 year olds. For my children it was an excellent lead-up to pre-school. No emphasis on reading, writing, math, etc. instead a free-flowing environment where young children discover the tactile world at their own pace while socializing and taking the first step toward being separated from their parents during the day.

On what do you base the above opinion? Are you familiar with the Montessori method?

So they didn't pussify your kids?

NewChief
02-10-2010, 04:59 PM
Hey, whoaaa there DJ. Vailpass is in no way a pretentious douchebag!

See there, VP, I got your back. :D

Yeah, don't let the Volvo fool you. He's not that pretentious.

vailpass
02-10-2010, 05:01 PM
So they didn't pussify your kids?

Hell no. IMHO your kids are made at home, what they are at school is just a reflection of home, mom and dad.

BIG_DADDY
02-10-2010, 05:03 PM
Hell no. IMHO your kids are made at home, what they are at school is just a reflection of home, mom and dad.

Pretty much, just checking.

vailpass
02-10-2010, 05:04 PM
Yeah, don't let the Volvo fool you. He's not that pretentious.

:D As if there isn't an XC70 parked in your driveway as we speak.

vailpass
02-10-2010, 05:06 PM
Pretty much, just checking.

You have nothing to worry about there. You will be involved, play ball with your kid, teach him how to defend himself and train the machine.
He will be all good no matter where you send him as long as it's all good at home.

RJ
02-10-2010, 05:12 PM
So they didn't pussify your kids?


They couldn't if they wanted to......and they might want to.

Like my response earlier to something VP posted - my daughter goes to a Catholic school and those teachers and the nun who is their principal do a fine job of keeping the kids in line and following the rules. But once they're out on the playground all bets are off, especially with the boys. Cause let's face it, boys really will be boys, whether you want them to or not.

NewChief
02-10-2010, 05:16 PM
:D As if there isn't an XC70 parked in your driveway as we speak.

The wife's engine actually blew and we had to salvage it. Was quite a blow. There was always something screwy with hers.