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View Full Version : Obama Do "they" believe this stuff or are they artful liars?


HonestChieffan
02-11-2010, 07:58 AM
When you read and listen to many of the statements made by the administration, or when I do, it often makes me mad as a hornet that they would be such blatent liars. But I was drinking some beer watching the game with abuddy last night and he made a different observation.

His take is that they may not see it as being dishonest. He thinks that these people, those at the czar level and Obama advisors, are so totally committed to their agenda that they believe deeply that they are not lying. His idea is they dont know the difference and simply do not care. That if you believe hard enough and say the same lie over and over enough that some people will begin to believe it.

That is scarey. Maybe they don't think its a distortion. Even worse is maybe they just don't know enough about the thngs they are doing to realize the consequences

Here is a great example...If Obama honestly believes he is pro business then this administration and this country is in far deeper trouble than we think. I'd be way more comfortable thinking he knows he is lying and its just politics as usual.


Obama Says He’s ‘Fierce’ Free-Market Advocate, Rejects Critics
February 11, 2010,
By Mike Dorning and Julianna Goldman
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-02-11/obama-says-he-s-fierce-free-market-advocate-rejects-critics.html

Feb. 11 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama said he and his administration have pursued a “fundamentally business- friendly” agenda and are “fierce advocates” for the free market, rejecting corporate criticism of his policies.

“The irony is, is that on the left we are perceived as being in the pockets of big business; and then on the business side, we are perceived as being anti-business,” Obama said in a Feb. 9 interview in the Oval Office with Bloomberg BusinessWeek, which will appear on newsstands tomorrow.

“You would be hard-pressed to identify a piece of legislation that we have proposed out there that, net, is not good for businesses,” he added. He predicted that legislation he will sign this year would cut corporate taxes by about $70 billion.

Obama took office at a time of turmoil in the economy, responding with an interventionist agenda that included a bailout of the auto industry and a $787 billion stimulus plan. Those moves drew fire from Republicans in Congress, while many executives objected to his efforts to overhaul health care and impose new regulations on the financial industry.

Still, since his term began, the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index of stocks has risen more than 25 percent and the economy rebounded from a 6.4 percent decline during the first three months of last year to 5.7 percent growth in the fourth quarter.

In an effort to make U.S. exports more attractive, Obama set a year-end objective for persuading China to allow the value of its currency to rise.

“My goal over the course of the next year is for China to recognize that it is also in their interest to allow their currency to appreciate because, frankly, they have got a potentially overheating economy,” Obama said.

He said his administration is “going to have some very serious negotiations” with China that are “going to be bumpy.” China has held its exchange rate with the dollar steady since July 2008.

Obama discussed a range of economic issues in the 35-minute interview with editors and reporters.

He said he would press for passage this year of free-trade agreements with South Korea, Panama and Colombia, though he cautioned that “different glitches” must first be negotiated with each country. He dismissed the idea of expanding the payroll tax break he proposed for small businesses to larger companies. And he offered a less-than-optimistic forecast for the legislative prospects of the “Volcker Rule” he embraced last month to bar commercial banks from proprietary trading.



‘Dysfunctional’ Washington



“Whether we can get it through Congress is always a question because, as we have seen throughout this year, we have a political process in Washington right now that is a little dysfunctional,” Obama said.

He declined to give an opinion on Toyota Motor Corp.’s handling of its automobile recall, using the opportunity to argue that the bailout of General Motors Co. and Chrysler Group LLC has worked. He cited the improved financial position of General Motors, whose chairman and chief executive officer, Ed Whitacre, predicted on Jan. 6 would turn a profit this year.

“GM and Chrysler aren’t out of the woods yet, but there is an enormous opportunity for us to rebuild a U.S. auto industry that, absent our intervention, might not have been there, at least with those two companies,” Obama said.

The auto bailout, he said, is “a very politically unpopular decision that was made that, from my vantage point, is pro-business.”



Meeting Immelt, Cote



As Obama defended himself against charges he is isolated from business, a number of CEOs sat outside in the West Wing lobby: General Electric Co.’s Jeffrey Immelt and Honeywell International Inc.’s David Cote were among those waiting for a meeting with White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel and energy coordinator Carol Browner to discuss climate-change policy.

Obama, succeeding a Republican president who stressed reducing regulation and cutting taxes on investment income, has come in for repeated criticism from business groups.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has been a frequent sparring partner, joining battle over Obama’s health-care overhaul plan, climate-change legislation, support for a new consumer financial protection agency, and backing for legal changes making it easier to unionize workers.

Early in the Obama administration, bondholders objected to pressure from the White House to accept discounts on Chrysler debt. Hedge-fund manager Clifford Asness of AQR Capital Management publicly accused Obama of “bullying” creditors.



Fighting Bank Tax



Wall Street has chafed at Obama’s targeting of bonuses given to bank executives and fought a White House plan announced last month to recover the cost of the financial industry bailout with taxes on large banks.

Perceptions that Obama is unfriendly to business are widespread in the investment community. In a Bloomberg poll in January, 77 percent of U.S. investors surveyed said they see the president as anti-business.

In the interview, Obama offered an explanation for one charge often leveled by those who portray him as removed from the realities of managing a business: that he is the first president in decades not to include a major corporate CEO as a member of the Cabinet or inner circle.

“It just has to do with who the particular individuals were who were needed at a time of crisis,” Obama said. “I thought it was very important to have Larry Summers and Tim Geithner as two of my key economic advisers early on because they had gone through significant global economic crises before.”



‘Spillover Effect’



Obama attributed feelings that he’s unsympathetic to business in part to “a spillover effect” from public criticism he has leveled at large banks.

He also cited instances when he has clashed with specific industries such as insurance companies over his health-care plan, energy companies over climate change, and banks over a financial-regulatory overhaul. Still, he argued, in each case the proposal benefited American businesses as a whole.

“You have got some pretty significant, well-funded industry interest groups who are adamantly opposed, and they have got a lot of sway,” Obama said.

With the Oval Office fireplace lit in the background, Obama continued a vigorous defense of his record on business issues, circling back to the topic even as aides repeatedly told him time was up and that his economic team, including Geithner, Summers and Christina Romer, was waiting to brief the president.



Modifying Tax Proposal



He volunteered that he had made “modifications” to his proposals on taxing multinational corporations in response to criticism. He said his plan to repeal President George W. Bush’s tax cuts for families making more than $250,000 a year isn’t “punitive” and is a means to “deal with debt and deficits in a realistic way.”

He said his economic policies had helped pull the country back from financial turmoil as he entered office and “created an environment in which businesses can be profitable.”

“We are pro-growth,” Obama said. “We are fierce advocates for a thriving, dynamic free market.”

fan4ever
02-11-2010, 08:28 AM
“We are pro-growth,” Obama said. “We are fierce advocates for a thriving, dynamic free market. We just don't know how it works.”

banyon
02-11-2010, 08:31 AM
"blatant". "scary".

banyon
02-11-2010, 08:33 AM
So what's supposed to be the "lie"?

That he's pro-business?

How could he not be pro-business? He handed them hundreds of billions in bailout money at the expense of taxpayers. What, exactly, has he done that is so anti-business?

fan4ever
02-11-2010, 08:42 AM
You don't see the "lie"? Really?

The campaign promise for one. You'll probably write that off as "campaign speak" or something like that, but that same kind of "lie" cost Bush his re-election...like the article stated.

The rest of the article is more about his unwillingness to do what's needed or just overall inability to see what's needed.

HonestChieffan
02-11-2010, 08:44 AM
See, I'm not sure it a lie. Back up a step and think about it. They may actually believe what they are doing is pro business, that it is growth generation....if that is true, this is worse than a lie.

fan4ever
02-11-2010, 08:45 AM
Oops, my bad; was responding to the other article; apologies to Banyon. I read this but responded to the wrong article.

dirk digler
02-11-2010, 08:47 AM
This article is pure spin and not credible BS.

banyon
02-11-2010, 08:53 AM
See, I'm not sure it a lie. Back up a step and think about it. They may actually believe what they are doing is pro business, that it is growth generation....if that is true, this is worse than a lie.

So, you don't know what the lie is or what he's done that is anti-business?

petegz28
02-11-2010, 08:56 AM
This article is pure spin and not credible BS.

Sorry, I will disagree here. Bloomberg is prettt down the middle when it comes to politcs.

dirk digler
02-11-2010, 09:05 AM
Sorry, I will disagree here. Bloomberg is prettt down the middle when it comes to politcs.

Doesn't matter it is all spin and BS. I am just using hcf's criteria.

HonestChieffan
02-11-2010, 09:07 AM
Read between the lines Dirk. You can see stuff that isnt even there.

dirk digler
02-11-2010, 09:16 AM
Read between the lines Dirk. You can see stuff that isnt even there.

spin hcf spin....oh wait you probably already spin your asshole on a bottle.

Jenson71
02-11-2010, 09:16 AM
He's a Marxist!

dirk digler
02-11-2010, 09:23 AM
He's a Marxist!

why are you calling hcf names?

wild1
02-11-2010, 09:26 AM
a fierce free market advocate LMAO

as he's spent his entire first year waging war on it.

banyon
02-11-2010, 09:27 AM
a fierce free market advocate LMAO

as he's spent his entire first year waging war on it.

What did he do to "wage war" on it?