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blazzin311
02-14-2010, 08:14 AM
Found this, this morning for those interested. I'd have to think that if the Cavs got Stoudemire it for sure makes them the favorites to win the Eastern Conference.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4913305

Updated: February 14, 2010, 2:57 AM ET
Sources: Hickson, Ilgauskas to Suns

By Chris Broussard
ESPN The Magaazine
Archive
The Cleveland Cavaliers and Phoenix Suns are closing in on a deal that would send All-Star forward Amare Stoudemire to Cleveland, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations.

Stoudemire

The Cavaliers would send Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson to Phoenix in exchange for Stoudemire, one of the league's most dominant big man.

While Cleveland remains in talks with several other teams, the club, from management down to the players, has settled on Stoudemire as its first choice.

The ball is in Phoenix's court. The Suns are mulling whether the financial relief provided by Ilgauskas's $12 million contract and the young and talented Hickson are enough for them to part with Stoudemire.

Cleveland believes the addition of Stoudemire would all but seal LeBron James' re-signing with the team when he becomes a free agent this summer. The Cavaliers are also prepared to sign Stoudemire, who has one year and $17 million remaining on his contract, to a long-term contract extension once the season ends.

The Suns will likely waive Ilgauskas, which would allow him to be re-signed by Cleveland after 30 days.

Cleveland is also talking with Washington about acquiring Antawn Jamison, as well as Indiana about Troy Murphy. Meanwhile, Golden State is trying to entice the Cavs into taking Corey Maggette for Ilgauskas.

Psyko Tek
02-14-2010, 08:37 AM
good luck with the no defense I don't rebound look my name has a apostrophe or 3little bitch

never liked him on the court
without nash feeding him
he's gonna suck

The Bad Guy
02-14-2010, 08:43 AM
For me, this is a far more lopsided trade than the Gasol one for the Lakers. Z is going to get bought out and head back to Cleveland. Hickson doesn't even have close to the potential to ever fill Amar'e's shoes.

YayMike
02-14-2010, 08:57 AM
Wow, Phoenix would be stupid to do this...

BigMeatballDave
02-14-2010, 09:01 AM
Surely the Suns cannot be this stupid.

If this happens, the Cavs NOT winning an NBA Championship would be colossal fail.

chiefzilla1501
02-14-2010, 09:02 AM
I think it's interesting that they think this would seal the deal for Lebron getting a new contract. I was thinking just the opposite. Lebron's going to get an astronomically huge contract. Can they really afford him AND Stoudemire in the long-term?

Sure-Oz
02-14-2010, 09:14 AM
This is like the jermaine dye for neifi perez deal

Miles
02-14-2010, 09:30 AM
Wow, Phoenix would be stupid to do this...

Mostly just really cheap. It wouldn't surprised me if this does happen and the Suns buy out the Ilgauskas contract like they did with everyone they received for Shaq. Net result would essentially be Shaq and Amare for JJ Hickson.

Miles
02-14-2010, 09:37 AM
For me, this is a far more lopsided trade than the Gasol one for the Lakers. Z is going to get bought out and head back to Cleveland. Hickson doesn't even have close to the potential to ever fill Amar'e's shoes.

The Grizz at least got the rights to Marc Gasol who is turning into a pretty solid player so that trade doesn't look nearly as bad now as it did at the time it was made.

The Suns really should get more attention for the terrible moves they have made over the past 5 years which appear to have been mostly of the money saving variety. They have a lot more in common with the Clipppers than they get credit for.

the Talking Can
02-14-2010, 09:40 AM
this would essentially be giving stoudemire away for nothing...not even a high draft pick


it might be worse than the gasol trade

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-14-2010, 09:42 AM
Stoudemire isn't that good. He's not a very good shooter and he plays horrendous defense. Horrendous.

One of the Cavs best strengths, half court defense, would immediately become a liability.

IMO, this could be the rare trade that makes both teams worse.

Sarver has consistently shown that he cares more about the bottom line than titles, otherwise the Suns of the last 6 years probably would have won 4 titles.

KevB
02-14-2010, 10:03 AM
Good comments by miles and hamas. The Pau Gasol trade looks a lot better now, with Marc becoming a top shelf center and money freeing up space to eventually add Randolph. Too bad the Grizz didn't take Tyreke instead of Thabust.

SNR
02-14-2010, 10:09 AM
Stoudemire isn't that good. He's not a very good shooter and he plays horrendous defense. Horrendous.

One of the Cavs best strengths, half court defense, would immediately become a liability.

IMO, this could be the rare trade that makes both teams worse.

Sarver has consistently shown that he cares more about the bottom line than titles, otherwise the Suns of the last 6 years probably would have won 4 titles.Isn't that what everybody said when Shaq was dealt to Cleveland? That it won't help Cleveland's inability to defend the pick and roll/teams like Orlando will only continue to have their way with them, etc.

eazyb81
02-14-2010, 10:09 AM
I would LOVE it if this convinces LeBron to resign with the Cavs. I can't stand all the NY and NJ media and fans all but penciling him in to their lineups for the next 10 years.

Von Dumbass
02-14-2010, 10:19 AM
I have always thought that Amare Stoudemire would be the PERFECT compliment with LeBron. Amare can shoot off the pick and roll and actually finish at the basket something LeBron has been missing from his bigs.

Ilgauskas is more of a pick and pop big guy and Verajo is extremely limited offensively. There is no way in hell the Cavs don't win the Finals if they get Amare.

Saul Good
02-14-2010, 10:22 AM
Isn't that what everybody said when Shaq was dealt to Cleveland? That it won't help Cleveland's inability to defend the pick and roll/teams like Orlando will only continue to have their way with them, etc.

Boy do those guys look stupid after Cleveland rolled Orlando in the playoffs last year.

Von Dumbass
02-14-2010, 10:27 AM
Stoudemire isn't that good. He's not a very good shooter and he plays horrendous defense. Horrendous.

One of the Cavs best strengths, half court defense, would immediately become a liability.

IMO, this could be the rare trade that makes both teams worse.

Sarver has consistently shown that he cares more about the bottom line than titles, otherwise the Suns of the last 6 years probably would have won 4 titles.

Stoudemire has all the potential in the world and is a very good shooter for a guy his size. Before his micro-fracture surgery he absolutely killed Tim Duncan in the playoffs, he averaged like 35 points and 15 rebounds in a series against he Spurs one year.

SNR
02-14-2010, 10:37 AM
Boy do those guys look stupid after Cleveland rolled Orlando in the playoffs last year.Shaq was still with the Suns last season.

I know it's only a regular season game, but Shaq is much better against Dwight Howard than Z was. I think that was a good deal.

DJ's left nut
02-14-2010, 10:46 AM
The Cavs would be smarter to send Shaq in this deal.

Shaq and Amare on the floor with LeBron would completely clog the middle. At that point, you've done a fair amount to defeat LeBron's greatest strength; his strength/inside presence.

LeBron's an average shooter. He needs some room to work from inside and/or mid-range to really excel. If you have Shaq and Amare down there, the entire defense will collapse down and his lanes are gone.

I actually think Danny Granger would be a perfect fit for Cleveland if they could figure out a way to get him. He's a bigger guy that can rebound a little but works on the perimeter offensively.

Chocolate Hog
02-14-2010, 10:57 AM
Hickson is one of the most underrated players in the NBA. Amare is good but I don't see how this stretchs the court to open things up for Lebron. Jamison would be the ideal player for the Cavs.

chiefzilla1501
02-14-2010, 11:03 AM
Hickson is one of the most underrated players in the NBA. Amare is good but I don't see how this stretchs the court to open things up for Lebron. Jamison would be the ideal player for the Cavs.

I agree. I'm not really seeing it. What I really think the Cavs need, actually, is a John Paxson or Steve Kerr type player. A guy who simply does not miss an open long-range shot. A guy who Lebron can drive in and then kick the ball out to the outside to a wide open man and he'll drain it every time. Stoudemire could be that guy. But I feel like it should be a pure outside sharpshooter instead. It just seems like all their best kickback shooters are bigger guys with good range on their jumpshots. Z was actually one of those guys.

Moe Williams was supposed to be that guy, but he absolutely choked in the playoffs last year.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-14-2010, 11:06 AM
Stoudemire has all the potential in the world and is a very good shooter for a guy his size. Before his micro-fracture surgery he absolutely killed Tim Duncan in the playoffs, he averaged like 35 points and 15 rebounds in a series against he Spurs one year.

Operative phrase: before his microfracture surgery.

He's never been the same player since. His explosiveness is gone.

Combine that with putting him and Shaq in the same front court, and you have a defensive apocalypse.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-14-2010, 11:09 AM
Washington wasn't doing a straight salary dump. They got good value for Butler, all things considered.

Where the Cavs really fucked themselves was last year, when they could have offloaded Szczerbiak's expiring contract for a piece, but did nothing.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-14-2010, 11:13 AM
I agree. I'm not really seeing it. What I really think the Cavs need, actually, is a John Paxson or Steve Kerr type player. A guy who simply does not miss an open long-range shot. A guy who Lebron can drive in and then kick the ball out to the outside to a wide open man and he'll drain it every time. Stoudemire could be that guy. But I feel like it should be a pure outside sharpshooter instead. It just seems like all their best kickback shooters are bigger guys with good range on their jumpshots. Z was actually one of those guys.

Moe Williams was supposed to be that guy, but he absolutely choked in the playoffs last year.

Cleveland has 3 guys in the top 15 in the league in 3 pt %. I don't think that's really a problem.

The one thing they still don't have is a second player who can create his own shot. You can't have LeBron going 1-5 in crunch time and win consistently.

DJ's left nut
02-14-2010, 11:14 AM
I agree. I'm not really seeing it. What I really think the Cavs need, actually, is a John Paxson or Steve Kerr type player. A guy who simply does not miss an open long-range shot. A guy who Lebron can drive in and then kick the ball out to the outside to a wide open man and he'll drain it every time. Stoudemire could be that guy. But I feel like it should be a pure outside sharpshooter instead. It just seems like all their best kickback shooters are bigger guys with good range on their jumpshots. Z was actually one of those guys.

Moe Williams was supposed to be that guy, but he absolutely choked in the playoffs last year.

What the Cavs have is 3 of the top 11 3-pt shooters in the game already. They have guards that can shoot the three-pointer. A Kerr/Paxson doesn't do them nearly as well as a guy like Trevor Ariza would, but Ariza plays SF.

They need a power forward that can shoot from outside; a Glenn Rice type.

Granger would be their best bet, followed closely by Antwan Jamison (in fact, Jamison might be even better), but even someone like Troy Murphy or Matt Bonner would be good as well

Psyko Tek
02-14-2010, 11:15 AM
Stoudemire isn't that good. He's not a very good shooter and he plays horrendous defense. Horrendous.

One of the Cavs best strengths, half court defense, would immediately become a liability.

IMO, this could be the rare trade that makes both teams worse.

Sarver has consistently shown that he cares more about the bottom line than titles, otherwise the Suns of the last 6 years probably would have won 4 titles.

yeah sarver is a bottom line guy
gawd I miss, colangelo

the refs didn't help phx at all

DJ's left nut
02-14-2010, 11:17 AM
Cleveland has 3 guys in the top 15 in the league in 3 pt %. I don't think that's really a problem.

The one thing they still don't have is a second player who can create his own shot. You can't have LeBron going 1-5 in crunch time and win consistently.

Mo Williams can create off the dribble, as can Gibson.

The Cavs don't run an offense that really encourages those guys to make their own shot. LeBron dominates the ball in their offense.

If you put Jamison out there with Williams and Parker, the defense would have to spread to cover the wings and LeBron could have his way inside. Another 'creator' would just end up doing what Parker's doing now; shooting jumpers after LeBron crashes.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-14-2010, 11:17 AM
As strange as it seems, the Cavs probably would have been better off last year and the foreseeable future had they offered a 1 and Szczerbiak's contract for Zach Fucking Randolph off all people.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-14-2010, 11:19 AM
Mo Williams can create off the dribble, as can Gibson.

The Cavs don't run an offense that really encourages those guys to make their own shot. LeBron dominates the ball in their offense.

If you put Jamison out there with Williams and Parker, the defense would have to spread to cover the wings and LeBron could have his way inside. Another 'creator' would just end up doing what Parker's doing now; shooting jumpers after LeBron crashes.

Mo Williams scores 9.9 points a game that aren't from beyond the arc.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-14-2010, 11:21 AM
DJ, what I mean by "create his own shot" is someone who can score without needing someone else to dribble, drive, and kick it to them for an open look.

They can either

1) Beat their man off the dribble

or

2) Beat the guy in post

The Cavs don't have anyone who can score in the low post if you get him the ball on the block, aside from the corpse of Shaq.

They can't play Hi-Lo

Chocolate Hog
02-14-2010, 11:28 AM
This trade may make sense if the plan is to dump Shaq after this year and use Amare to get Lebron to stay (which I think he will).

-King-
02-14-2010, 11:54 AM
For the past few years it's been "LeBron doesn't have any talent around him! He cant win"

The next few years after Amare is there its going to be "LeBron isn't getting the ball as much with Amare there and the Cavs can't win with LeBron not getting that many touches."


Amare just plain out sucks on defense and that will weaken the Cavs top 5 defense. Atleast with Z and Shaq, finesse centers around the league had trouble scoring in the post, but with Amare there, centers will have no trouble scoring.

chiefzilla1501
02-14-2010, 11:56 AM
DJ, what I mean by "create his own shot" is someone who can score without needing someone else to dribble, drive, and kick it to them for an open look.

They can either

1) Beat their man off the dribble

or

2) Beat the guy in post

The Cavs don't have anyone who can score in the low post if you get him the ball on the block, aside from the corpse of Shaq.

They can't play Hi-Lo

I think you're right on this. Varejao can do it, but pretty inconsistently and he has a pretty limited range of shots.

DJ's left nut
02-14-2010, 11:59 AM
DJ, what I mean by "create his own shot" is someone who can score without needing someone else to dribble, drive, and kick it to them for an open look.

They can either

1) Beat their man off the dribble

or

2) Beat the guy in post

The Cavs don't have anyone who can score in the low post if you get him the ball on the block, aside from the corpse of Shaq.

They can't play Hi-Lo

As to the first point, what Williams does vs. what he can do are two separate animals. Williams can create off the dribble, but his offense doesn't encourage it.

As to the second - who is LeBron going to play hi-lo with?

That's not his game, never will be. Hi-lo serves to crash the defense in low where he wants to operate. He is the lo, with Williams, etc... being the high. So getting another big for LeBron to play hi-lo with isn't going to work.

Do you mean the Cavs should be looking for an alternative to LeBron? Another inside presence to play hi-lo with Williams/Gibson/Parker? If so, I guess I see what you're saying. When he's not hitting, it'd be nice to have a 2nd option.

But if I had a guy like James on my squad, I'd recognize that the odds of him going cold for an entire playoff series are pretty slim. As such, I'd work on finding a way to maximize him, rather than try to find a fallback to him.

Jamison or Granger are the best ways to maximize your best weapon. If LeBron ices up for a series, the Cavs are boned no matter who they add. So go with the guys that will make your team play its best when it's at full throttle. That's how you win a title and that's how you keep LeBron in Cleveland.

chiefzilla1501
02-14-2010, 11:59 AM
Cleveland has 3 guys in the top 15 in the league in 3 pt %. I don't think that's really a problem.

The one thing they still don't have is a second player who can create his own shot. You can't have LeBron going 1-5 in crunch time and win consistently.

I do agree with this. For the kickout guys, we'll see. I didn't see anyone step up against the Magic. Jordan had Paxson and Kerr. When you needed a big shot, they'd hit it.

We'll definitely see. Gibson's been pretty red hot of late, but I've always viewed him as a streak shooter until recently. Mo Williams definitely isn't that guy, when it comes to the playoffs. And Parker might step it up, but I just haven't been overly impressed with him so far.

But I think you're right that they have some guys who could fill that role. I do agree that they need a guy who can set up some shots.

SNR
02-14-2010, 12:04 PM
Maybe the Cavs can steal Brandon Jennings from the Bucks. Just like how they stole Moe Williams.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-14-2010, 12:09 PM
As to the first point, what Williams does vs. what he can do are two separate animals. Williams can create off the dribble, but his offense doesn't encourage it.

As to the second - who is LeBron going to play hi-lo with?

That's not his game, never will be. Hi-lo serves to crash the defense in low where he wants to operate. He is the lo, with Williams, etc... being the high. So getting another big for LeBron to play hi-lo with isn't going to work.

Do you mean the Cavs should be looking for an alternative to LeBron? Another inside presence to play hi-lo with Williams/Gibson/Parker? If so, I guess I see what you're saying. When he's not hitting, it'd be nice to have a 2nd option.

But if I had a guy like James on my squad, I'd recognize that the odds of him going cold for an entire playoff series are pretty slim. As such, I'd work on finding a way to maximize him, rather than try to find a fallback to him.

Jamison or Granger are the best ways to maximize your best weapon. If LeBron ices up for a series, the Cavs are boned no matter who they add. So go with the guys that will make your team play its best when it's at full throttle. That's how you win a title and that's how you keep LeBron in Cleveland.

It's not that LeBron will go cold for seven games. But he will go cold for a game, or for a quarter, or a half, and when that happens, they have absolutely no one who can pick up the slack.

The best kind of guy for that team would have been a guy like Randolph, who can crash the boards, get points w/o having plays run for him while LeBron is in, and if you want to give LBJ a blow, you can run plays for him in the low post.

Cleveland has an alpha dog an energy guy (Varejao) and role players. But they don't have a second banana who can emulate a first when needed (McHale, Pippen, early Kobe, Shaq in Miami, even Ginobili to a lesser extent)

CoMoChief
02-14-2010, 12:16 PM
Amare Stoudemire - #1 player in the state of FL coming out of HS in 2002

Who was the #2????

MU's Kevin Young.

ROFL To say that's a huge gap in talent is an understatement.

Von Dumbass
02-14-2010, 12:20 PM
Operative phrase: before his microfracture surgery.

He's never been the same player since. His explosiveness is gone.

Combine that with putting him and Shaq in the same front court, and you have a defensive apocalypse.

Ilgauskas isn't the best post defender in the world either and Cleveland was doing fine defensively. Really Verajo is the only good defending big the Cavs have.

Amare is still one of if not the most athletic big guy in the NBA. Cleveland has excellent perimeter defenders and they will make Amare's job a lot easier.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-14-2010, 12:23 PM
Ilgauskas isn't the best post defender in the world either and Cleveland was doing fine defensively. Really Verajo is the only good defending big the Cavs have.

Amare is still one of if not the most athletic big guy in the NBA. Cleveland has excellent perimeter defenders and they will make Amare's job a lot easier.

Cleveland is a tremendous regular season team, but I think that their inadequacies will manifest themselves in the playoffs far beyond what they appear to be now.

Von Dumbass
02-14-2010, 12:23 PM
The best kind of guy for that team would have been a guy like Randolph, who can crash the boards, get points w/o having plays run for him while LeBron is in, and if you want to give LBJ a blow, you can run plays for him in the low post.


Are you talking about Zach Randolph who plays for the Grizzlies or Anthony Randolph?

Zach Randolph is one of the biggest ball hogs in the NBA. If he gets the ball he is going to shoot it no matter what. NBA people were calling him the black hole when he was in New York because once the ball goes inside to him it doesn't come back out.

Von Dumbass
02-14-2010, 12:30 PM
Cleveland is a tremendous regular season team, but I think that their inadequacies will manifest themselves in the playoffs far beyond what they appear to be now.

Maybe so. The Cavs haven't had a lot of talent the past 3 or 4 years but if they get a guy like Stoudemire they are going to be very tough to beat.

They will be able to get a lot of opposing Centers and PF's into foul trouble with LeBron, Shaq, and Amare.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-14-2010, 12:40 PM
Are you talking about Zach Randolph who plays for the Grizzlies or Anthony Randolph?

Zach Randolph is one of the biggest ball hogs in the NBA. If he gets the ball he is going to shoot it no matter what. NBA people were calling him the black hole when he was in New York because once the ball goes inside to him it doesn't come back out.

He's actually matured quite a bit. He's a good player, and would work as a second guy who knew his role. Again, he's a physical rebounder who gets a lot of points on putbacks, and he can score from the low block.

The only other guy who would be a better fit for that Cavs team (realistically), IMO, would be a guy like Stephen Jackson (who is both a great and awful teammate).

BIG_DADDY
02-14-2010, 12:41 PM
GO LAKERS!!!! That is all.

Psyko Tek
02-14-2010, 01:05 PM
They will be able to get a lot of opposing Centers and PF's into foul trouble with LeBron, Shaq, and Amare.

A'm'a'r'e' os constantly in foul trouble

I just want the suns to get a1st or 2nd and 3rd for him
and then it's bye-bye

no d
no boards
can't create

hell I'ld rather play Looooouuu Admunsen and lopez

-King-
02-14-2010, 01:16 PM
GO LAKERS!!!! That is all.

This.

Saul Good
02-14-2010, 01:48 PM
A'm'a'r'e' os constantly in foul trouble

I just want the suns to get a1st or 2nd and 3rd for him
and then it's bye-bye

no d
no boards
can't create

hell I'ld rather play Looooouuu Admunsen and lopez

If I were the Cavs, I'd offer them a 3rd. I know it's off topic, but who do you think the Chiefs should draft in the 8th round this year?

Basileus777
02-14-2010, 01:53 PM
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9416/bslslight.png

The great JJ Hickson.

Salary dump trades are ruining the NBA. This would be one of the most lopsided trades in NBA history. I don't know how anyone could think that trading a garbage man like Hickson for one of the best pick and roll bigs in the league wouldn't make the Cavs a better team. Amare has a nice mid-range shot and would be nasty playing with LeBron. Seriously, LeBron is making JJ Hickson look decent by feeding him easy baskets.

If the Suns trade for Ilgauskas and waive him (which they probably will), that essentially means they traded the Cavaliers JJ Hickson for Shaq and Amare.

KevB
02-14-2010, 02:15 PM
He's actually matured quite a bit. He's a good player, and would work as a second guy who knew his role. Again, he's a physical rebounder who gets a lot of points on putbacks, and he can score from the low block.

Shockingly, this is all true. Randolph has been a model teammate for the Griz this year, and that's with a team full of impressionable youngsters. I think if you put him with a LBJ, he'd know his role and act accordingly. He was a black hole for the Knicks and Clips, but look at the garbage he was playing with. He probably should have been the guy taking the most shots.

SNR
02-14-2010, 02:17 PM
cavs shud sing greg osterrtag

Von Dumbass
02-14-2010, 02:29 PM
He's actually matured quite a bit. He's a good player, and would work as a second guy who knew his role. Again, he's a physical rebounder who gets a lot of points on putbacks, and he can score from the low block.

The only other guy who would be a better fit for that Cavs team (realistically), IMO, would be a guy like Stephen Jackson (who is both a great and awful teammate).

I knew Randolph was having probably his best season of his career, but I haven't caught one Grizzlies game all season. I just figured he was putting up numbers by being selfish. Guess he has wised up a bit.

Stephen Jackson is very versatile good player. He would be a good fit on any team IMO. He is a little bit of a thug though.

Basileus777
02-14-2010, 03:04 PM
Randolph is also a poor defender, and he's a much less efficient scorer than Amare. You're talking about a full .100 difference in TS%. And he can't be a partner in the pick and roll with LeBron like Amare can. The Cavs don't have a need for the rebounding that Randolph would bring either. Z-Bo would be a better fit for a team like Boston that can't rebound and has no post scoring.

SNR
02-17-2010, 11:41 PM
Much better outcome than Stoudemire for the Cavs.

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/02/17/wizards.jamison.ap/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2

Cavaliers get Jamison from Wizards in 3-team trade

Posted Feb 17 2010 7:53PM - Updated Feb 18 2010 12:49AM
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Cleveland Cavaliers acquired Antawn Jamison on Wednesday night, the forward they hope will fit in between LeBron James and Shaquille O'Neal on a championship front line.



Jamison goes to Cleveland from the Washington Wizards in a three-team trade that sent Drew Gooden to the Los Angeles Clippers.
Washington received Cavaliers center Zydrunas Ilgauskas, a 2010 first-round draft pick and the rights to Emir Preldzic, who was selected in the second round of last year's draft from Cleveland.
The Wizards also received forward Al Thornton from Los Angeles.
Cleveland gets guard Sebastian Telfair from the Clippers.
"Antawn is a great pro. We are very excited to have an experienced all-star player of Antawn's caliber and character join us," Cavaliers general manager Danny Ferry said in a statement announcing the trade. "He has the ability to add a special, unique dimension to our team with a strong inside presence and the ability to stretch teams defensively, while impacting the entire court. We think he matches the culture we have built, and continue to build, and will fit well with our group on the court and off."
The Cavaliers had long coveted an athletic power forward who could play on the perimeter after they were eliminated by the Orlando Magic in last year's Eastern Conference finals.
They had reportedly been involved in trade talks with Phoenix for Amare Stoudemire, but instead ended up with another former All-Star.
Jamison, who had been with the Wizards since 2004, is averaging 20.5 points this season. He was not in uniform for Washington's game with Minnesota on Wednesday.
"Antawn Jamison has been the embodiment of leadership on and off the court for this franchise for five-and-a-half seasons and we thank him for all he has done for the Wizards and the city of Washington," Wizards president Ernie Grunfeld said. "Unfortunately, our on-court results have not met our expectations and we felt it was necessary to make changes to improve our future and our financial flexibility. This trade accomplished both of those objectives."
Jamison left the arena shortly before the game. As he entered his car, he said to reporters: "Not now."
He did have a message for Wizards fans. "You know I love them more than they love me."
Jamison should immediately step in at power forward for Cleveland and supply James with another legitimate scoring option as the Cavaliers' seek their first championship. Jamison is still owed $28 million over the next two seasons.
Cleveland (43-11) already has the best record in the NBA and can set a new franchise mark by winning its 14th straight game Thursday night against Denver. Still, the Cavaliers couldn't pass on the opportunity to add a proven veteran like Jamison, who can stretch opposing defenses with his perimeter shooting and open up the lane for James and O'Neal.
Ilgauskas, who is 34, has played his entire 12-year NBA career with the Cavaliers. He was supplanted as the starter center by O'Neal this season. He's averaging 7.5 points and 5.3 rebounds this season. His career averages are 13.9 points and 7.7 rebounds.
"Z has been a cornerstone part of this franchise and his jersey will hang in the rafters here some day, not only because of his play, but because of the tremendous person he is and what he has meant to the franchise and the community," Ferry said. "He has represented the Cavaliers, Cleveland and the NBA at a consistently high level for many years. We wish Z and his family the best."
Ilgauskas' agent, Herb Rudoy, told the (Cleveland) Plain Dealer that he would work quickly to get a buyout from Washington. That would free up Ilgauskas to sign with another team -- including re-signing with the Cavaliers, although he'd have to wait 30 days to return to Cleveland.
"I've already heard from a few teams -- good teams -- that are really interested in wanting to talk about Z going to play for them," Rudoy told the paper.
James can become a free agent this summer, leaving this as Cleveland's final shot at a championship before he decides to stay or go. The Cavaliers also had the league's best record last season, when they failed to reach the NBA finals.
Maybe Jamison can help them take that next step.
He was extremely popular not only with fans in Washington, but also with his teammates and the late owner Abe Pollin. After Gilbert Arenas was suspended indefinitely early last month, Jamison was the one who was chosen to speak to the crowd before the Jan. 8 game. He apologized for a skit that pantomimed shooting guns, calling it: "very embarrassing."
Now Jamison is gone and Wizards coach Flip Saunders lauded him.
"He's one of the most professional guys I've ever been around," Saunders said.
The Wizards acquired Gooden on Saturday in a multiplayer trade that sent Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood and DeShawn Stevenson to the Dallas Mavericks.
Gooden was reportedly seeking a buyout. Unlike his three former Mavericks teammates, he did not practice with the Wizards on Tuesday, but was at shootaround Wednesday morning. He was listed as inactive.
"Basically, we started looking at opportunities to clear cap space for this summer and in the meantime acquire assets that we also liked," Clippers general manager Mike Dunleavy said. "In the last two days, we were able to do that. And it gives us the flexibility to pretty much go in a lot of different directions."
Jamison was an All-Star in both 2005 and 2008, and averaged 20.5 points in 41 games. He missed the first nine games of this season with a sprained right shoulder.
The 33-year-old played his first five seasons with Golden State and after playing the 2003-04 season with Dallas, was traded to Washington. Jamison has a career average of 19.9 points.
The 6-foot-7 Thornton has averaged 13.7 in his three-year career with the Clippers.
Telfair, who's 24, will be playing for his fourth team. The former first-round pick has averaged 7.9 points in his career.

Chocolate Hog
02-18-2010, 01:03 AM
Hickson is one of the most underrated players in the NBA. Amare is good but I don't see how this stretchs the court to open things up for Lebron. Jamison would be the ideal player for the Cavs.

This.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-18-2010, 03:37 AM
I didn't think the Wizards would be willing to deal Jamison for basically nothing.

That's a phenomenal trade for Cleveland.

It allows them to go small with Varejao, Jamison, Lebron, West, and Williams, and if they want to go big they can do the following:

Ilgauskus/Shaq
Varejao
Jamison
Lebron
Williams/West

Plus, it gives you a crunch time lineup that allows you to take Varejao and Shaq off the court, who are either poor offensive players (Varejao) or defensive liabilities and poor FT shooters (Shaq).

Far better than dealing for Stoudemire, as you want to win right now, he's not a horrible defensive player, and his numbers weren't ridiculously elevated by Steve Nash.

Plus, he's not a soft bitch when it comes to rebounding.

DaKCMan AP
02-18-2010, 05:22 AM
I didn't think the Wizards would be willing to deal Jamison for basically nothing.

That's a phenomenal trade for Cleveland.

It allows them to go small with Varejao, Jamison, Lebron, West, and Williams, and if they want to go big they can do the following:

Ilgauskus/Shaq
Varejao
Jamison
Lebron
Williams/West

Plus, it gives you a crunch time lineup that allows you to take Varejao and Shaq off the court, who are either poor offensive players (Varejao) or defensive liabilities and poor FT shooters (Shaq).

Far better than dealing for Stoudemire, as you want to win right now, he's not a horrible defensive player, and his numbers weren't ridiculously elevated by Steve Nash.

Plus, he's not a soft bitch when it comes to rebounding.

You realize they traded Ilgauskus?

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-18-2010, 05:29 AM
You realize they traded Ilgauskus?

You realize he's gonna get bought out and end up back in Cleveland in 30 days?

Miles
02-18-2010, 05:30 AM
You realize they traded Ilgauskus?

I think the general assumption but many is that his contract will be bought out and he returns to the Cavs.

If the Cavs win the championship this year it will mark the third consecutive year that the team that won it all were heavily aided by poor/poorly run teams trying to save money.

DaKCMan AP
02-18-2010, 05:30 AM
You realize he's gonna get bought out and end up back in Cleveland in 30 days?

From what I've heard, Dallas wants him real bad and has already been in contact.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-18-2010, 05:32 AM
From what I've heard, Dallas wants him real bad and has already been in contact.

Dallas can't offer him any more than Cleveland can, and Cleveland is a significantly better team.

Miles
02-18-2010, 05:37 AM
Dallas can't offer him any more than Cleveland can, and Cleveland is a significantly better team.

Dallas probably can't offer him any more of a role either since they acquired Heywood. Z would probably get more, if not the same, time spelling Shaq than he would in the Haywood/Dampier mix.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-18-2010, 05:48 AM
Dallas probably can't offer him any more of a role either since they acquired Heywood. Z would probably get more, if not the same, time spelling Shaq than he would in the Haywood/Dampier mix.

Not to mention that Cleveland is a stone cold #1 seed and Dallas could go anywhere from #3-#7 based upon losing 2 games in the standings.

Miles
02-18-2010, 06:07 AM
Not to mention that Cleveland is a stone cold #1 seed and Dallas could go anywhere from #3-#7 based upon losing 2 games in the standings.

Agreed. The West is a shitfest of capable teams outside LA and maybe Denver.

Could be an interesting trade deadline if Amare goes to Miami. Also looking like the Rockets got Kevin Martin but at a somewhat stiff price of Landry.

eazyb81
02-18-2010, 07:03 AM
Is T-Mac going to the Knicks?

Miles
02-18-2010, 07:11 AM
Is T-Mac going to the Knicks?

Sounds possible. They really want him for cap space.

Basileus777
02-18-2010, 11:04 AM
Good deal, but Jamison is a horrible defensive player, probably even worse than Amare on that side of the floor. That's going to be the biggest problem integrating him, he isn't capable of guarding any decent Sf or PF, which will be a problem against someone like LA. Teams have been gameplanning against his weaknesses on defense for years in Washington.

It's not surprising how little Washington got for him. Jamison's age and bad contract killed any value he had.

Chiefs Pantalones
02-18-2010, 11:38 AM
lol once again, Cleveland fails to make it sexy for LeBron to stay in Cleveland. Their only hope was to acquire Stoudemire. It sucks, but the Lakers will win it again.

GO BULLS!!!

ChiefsCountry
02-18-2010, 11:48 AM
Getting Landry was a nice pickup for the Kings. K Marts days were numbered in Sactown.
Posted via Mobile Device

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-18-2010, 11:49 AM
Good deal, but Jamison is a horrible defensive player, probably even worse than Amare on that side of the floor. That's going to be the biggest problem integrating him, he isn't capable of guarding any decent Sf or PF, which will be a problem against someone like LA. Teams have been gameplanning against his weaknesses on defense for years in Washington.

It's not surprising how little Washington got for him. Jamison's age and bad contract killed any value he had.

He's not a good defensive player, but he's a much more capable rebounder in the flow of the game than Stoudemire. Furthermore, given that you can play him at 3, it allows you far more flexibility than Amare, and he makes them a better defensive matchup against Orlando, since Lewis has been extremely hesitant to drive this year, and Vince Carter treats contact like it's Semtex.

Furthermore, Amare just had a really good offensive game, scored 30. But he grabbed a paltry 8 rebounds and gave up 31-7 to Donte motherfucking Greene.

That's an abortion.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-18-2010, 11:55 AM
Getting Landry was a nice pickup for the Kings. K Marts days were numbered in Sactown.
Posted via Mobile Device

New York got fucking raped.

Houston offloads T-Mac, gets back the best player in the deal (Martin), gets two lottery picks (IMO) in 2011, 2012, and gets Jordan Hill, who could at least be a quality second line PF on a good team.

A+ for Morey.

Kings did OK. Landry is a really good player, Hughes will expire, and they have almost no money committed to anyone next year.

Basileus777
02-18-2010, 11:58 AM
The Knicks on July 1st will have 4 players under contract: Curry, Douglas, Gallinari and Chandler.

New York or not, I don't see why any Superstar would want to play with that garbage. And if they don't get Wade/Lebron, they just gave Houston two high lotto picks and Jordan Hill for nothing.

Chiefs Pantalones
02-18-2010, 12:00 PM
He's not a good defensive player, but he's a much more capable rebounder in the flow of the game than Stoudemire. Furthermore, given that you can play him at 3, it allows you far more flexibility than Amare, and he makes them a better defensive matchup against Orlando, since Lewis has been extremely hesitant to drive this year, and Vince Carter treats contact like it's Semtex.

Furthermore, Amare just had a really good offensive game, scored 30. But he grabbed a paltry 8 rebounds and gave up 31-7 to Donte mother****ing Greene.

That's an abortion.

Pretty much. I've seen him play in person against my Bulls and he's a surprisingly weak defender, even more so in person. He's a good offensive player but he's inconsistent and weak. It's sad when you get manhandled on any possession against JOKEhem Noah lol.

I really hope we make a play for LeBron this offseason, at least Bosh. That's why we traded Salmons and his 5.8 million. We are 20 million under now.

DaKCMan AP
02-18-2010, 12:02 PM
The best part about Jamison to Cleveland is it makes it unlikely that they'll get Bosh in the offseason. Wade + Bosh + Beasley in Miami = :)

Basileus777
02-18-2010, 12:04 PM
The best part about Jamison to Cleveland is it makes it unlikely that they'll get Bosh in the offseason. Wade + Bosh + Beasley in Miami = :)

The Cavs already lacked the cap room to sign a max free agent. The Varejao extension pretty much ended those hopes.

Chocolate Hog
02-18-2010, 12:46 PM
Pretty much. I've seen him play in person against my Bulls and he's a surprisingly weak defender, even more so in person. He's a good offensive player but he's inconsistent and weak. It's sad when you get manhandled on any possession against JOKEhem Noah lol.

I really hope we make a play for LeBron this offseason, at least Bosh. That's why we traded Salmons and his 5.8 million. We are 20 million under now.

I say Lebron stays in Cleveland but D.Wade comes back home. That'd be awesome to have Rose & D.Wade both from Chicago.

Rudy lost the toss
02-18-2010, 12:50 PM
tough to see Landry go, but Im liking Martin ok and the Draft picks a lot. Great job Knicks! Good luck with all that available money!

DaKCMan AP
02-18-2010, 12:54 PM
I say Lebron stays in Cleveland but D.Wade comes back home. That'd be awesome to have Rose & D.Wade both from Chicago.

I don't see it happening. I think both stay put.

Chiefs Pantalones
02-18-2010, 01:05 PM
I say Lebron stays in Cleveland but D.Wade comes back home. That'd be awesome to have Rose & D.Wade both from Chicago.

Yeah I hope something happens. That's why Chicago is doing this. We just traded Tyrus Thomas to the Bobcats. We're making a serious run for LeBron, Wade and Bosh this summer. Hopefully we get two of them. Everything is set in place, they just gotta wine and dine and give them the dough.

Basileus777
02-18-2010, 01:10 PM
Yeah I hope something happens. That's why Chicago is doing this. We just traded Tyrus Thomas to the Bobcats. We're making a serious run for LeBron, Wade and Bosh this summer. Hopefully we get two of them. Everything is set in place, they just gotta wine and dine and give them the dough.

The Bulls don't have enough cap room to sign 2 max free agents. You needed to get rid of Deng/Hinrich to do that. They only cleared off Salmons's player option worth 5.8 mil.

Chocolate Hog
02-18-2010, 01:12 PM
Yeah I hope something happens. That's why Chicago is doing this. We just traded Tyrus Thomas to the Bobcats. We're making a serious run for LeBron, Wade and Bosh this summer. Hopefully we get two of them. Everything is set in place, they just gotta wine and dine and give them the dough.

I always thought they should have traded for Garnett a few years ago when Heinrich was real good, Ben Gordon, ect.

Chiefs Pantalones
02-18-2010, 01:16 PM
The Bulls don't have enough cap room to sign 2 max free agents. You needed to get rid of Deng/Hinrich to do that. They only cleared off Salmons's player option worth 5.8 mil.

Hinrich is gone (sadly, GO KU!) this summer. As well as some of these other contract year players we traded for. They better find a way.

Basileus777
02-18-2010, 01:17 PM
Hinrich is gone (sadly, GO KU!) this summer. As well as some of these other contract year players we traded for. They better find a way.
Hinrich is under contract for another two years.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9193

Salmons contract was the thing the Bulls cleared, Thomas was already expiring.

Mecca
02-18-2010, 02:35 PM
The funny thing is in todays NBA, you're better off in the Knicks position than say the Bulls position, they can go offer 2 max contracts and then all they need is role players.

Basileus777
02-18-2010, 02:48 PM
The funny thing is in todays NBA, you're better off in the Knicks position than say the Bulls position, they can go offer 2 max contracts and then all they need is role players.

Not really. The Bulls can only sign one max free agent, but they actually have talent on their roster. The Knicks only have Douglas, Chandler, Curry, and Gallinari under contract.

The best case scenario would leave the Knicks with this roster:

Douglas
Chandler
LeBron
Gallinari
Bosh/Curry

+ vet minimum and no draft picks

New York or not, why should any superstar want to leave a better team and take less money to play with that crap?

Mecca
02-18-2010, 02:50 PM
Not really. The Bulls can only sign one max free agent, but they actually have talent on their roster. The Knicks only have Douglas, Chandler, Curry, and Gallinari under contract.

The best case scenario would leave the Knicks with this roster:

Douglas
Chandler
LeBron
Gallinari
Bosh/Curry

+ vet minimum

New York or not, why should any superstar want to leave a better team and take less money to play with that crap?

If you haven't noticed that's generally how the NBA does things. There are very few teams that could survive without it's star, Cleveland without Lebron is a horrible team.

Basileus777
02-18-2010, 02:52 PM
If you haven't noticed that's generally how the NBA does things. There are very few teams that could survive without it's star, Cleveland without Lebron is a horrible team.

There's only been a handful of stars that have ever left their team in free agency. The Cavs have a better supporting cast around LeBron than the Knicks will be able to put around him for the next few years.

Mecca
02-18-2010, 02:55 PM
That's true for the current moment but it took Cleveland years to give him decent players.

Someone will sign with the Knicks, it's NY, people care about the money potential that brings.

Basileus777
02-18-2010, 02:56 PM
That's true for the current moment but it took Cleveland years to give him decent players.

Someone will sign with the Knicks, it's NY, people care about the money potential that brings.

Someone will sign. But if they get Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay, Walsh's plan has been a failure. It's LeBron/Wade/Bosh or bust.

Mecca
02-18-2010, 02:58 PM
I think they'll get one of the 3, it's probably more likely to be Bosh than Lebron but weird things can happen sometimes.

Of course I have an idiot friend who likes the Knicks who doesn't want Lebron of course he hates Arod too, what's with idiot people from New York?

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-18-2010, 03:05 PM
There is a rumor that LeBron has a $50 million option in his Nike contract if he signs w/ a team in NY or LA.

Not likely, but it's an interesting theory.

More importantly, if I'm LeBron, I'm going to the Clippers, not the Knicks.

Let's see:

Baron Davis, Chris Kaman, Eric Gordon, Blake Griffin

or

Nothing.

Mecca
02-18-2010, 03:06 PM
There is a rumor that LeBron has a $50 million option in his Nike contract if he signs w/ a team in NY or LA.

Not likely, but it's an interesting theory.

More importantly, if I'm LeBron, I'm going to the Clippers, not the Knicks.

Let's see:

Baron Davis, Chris Kaman, Eric Gordon, Blake Griffin

or

Nothing.

But it's the Clippers, he'd blow out his knee or something..

Not to mention Baron Davis is extremely injury prone, and Griffin managed to miss his entire rookie year.

Basileus777
02-18-2010, 03:10 PM
It sucks being a Nets fan, but if we win the lotto (25% chance) and get Wall, we'll have a pretty nice core of young players to put around a star.

Mecca
02-18-2010, 03:12 PM
The Nets are in a better position than a lot of teams are...the NBA is weird like that.

DJ's left nut
02-18-2010, 03:22 PM
Not really. The Bulls can only sign one max free agent, but they actually have talent on their roster. The Knicks only have Douglas, Chandler, Curry, and Gallinari under contract.

The best case scenario would leave the Knicks with this roster:

Douglas
Chandler
LeBron
Gallinari
Bosh/Curry

+ vet minimum and no draft picks

New York or not, why should any superstar want to leave a better team and take less money to play with that crap?

"That crap" makes the NBA finals, especially if Chandler or Gallinari can be dealt for a guard. Chandler is a good player, Gallinari is also solid and extremely underrated.

Bosh at the 4, Chandler at the 3 and LeBron as a hybrid 2 is as strong a nucleus as any team in the league. Bring those 3 in and suddenly guys are willing to take the mid-level to play for you that would ordinarily look to the Lakers, Spurs, etc...

The NBA is rarely about depth, it's about stars and a strong role player or two.

I'd be excited if I were a Knicks fan.

DJ's left nut
02-18-2010, 03:24 PM
There is a rumor that LeBron has a $50 million option in his Nike contract if he signs w/ a team in NY or LA.

Not likely, but it's an interesting theory.

More importantly, if I'm LeBron, I'm going to the Clippers, not the Knicks.

Let's see:

Baron Davis, Chris Kaman, Eric Gordon, Blake Griffin

or

Nothing.

You forgot Donald Sterling.

No way I'd play for that man. If I'm LeBron, I'm going to NY.

Basileus777
02-18-2010, 03:28 PM
"That crap" makes the NBA finals, especially if Chandler or Gallinari can be dealt for a guard. Chandler is a good player, Gallinari is also solid and extremely underrated.

Bosh at the 4, Chandler at the 3 and LeBron as a hybrid 2 is as strong a nucleus as any team in the league. Bring those 3 in and suddenly guys are willing to take the mid-level to play for you that would ordinarily look to the Lakers, Spurs, etc...

The NBA is rarely about depth, it's about stars and a strong role player or two.

I'd be excited if I were a Knicks fan.

The Knicks can't use the MLE until 2011. It would take a few years to fill out that roster, that team isn't capable of winning a title next year. Finding a pg, a legit center, defensive role-players and shooters, ie basically building an entire roster can't be done with just vet minimum players. That roster has 2, maybe 3 starters on a championship team.

The Bad Guy
02-18-2010, 03:36 PM
There is a rumor that LeBron has a $50 million option in his Nike contract if he signs w/ a team in NY or LA.

Not likely, but it's an interesting theory.

More importantly, if I'm LeBron, I'm going to the Clippers, not the Knicks.

Let's see:

Baron Davis, Chris Kaman, Eric Gordon, Blake Griffin

or

Nothing.

He's essentially sharing a city with the Lakers if he went to the Clippers.

With the Knicks, he's the biggest star in the city. He's bigger than Jeter. Bigger than any Giant or Jet.

He's playing in the most scorer friendly offense in the NBA.

The Clippers have nice talent, but they never, ever get over the hump. Baron can break down at any point. Gordon is a nice complimentary piece.

If I'm Lebron, I'm talking to Bosh and convincing him to join in New York.

The Bad Guy
02-18-2010, 03:37 PM
"That crap" makes the NBA finals, especially if Chandler or Gallinari can be dealt for a guard. Chandler is a good player, Gallinari is also solid and extremely underrated.

Bosh at the 4, Chandler at the 3 and LeBron as a hybrid 2 is as strong a nucleus as any team in the league. Bring those 3 in and suddenly guys are willing to take the mid-level to play for you that would ordinarily look to the Lakers, Spurs, etc...

The NBA is rarely about depth, it's about stars and a strong role player or two.

I'd be excited if I were a Knicks fan.

I agree. However, I'm dealing Wilson Chandler far before I'm dealing Danillo. I think the pure shooter on the wing meshes well with Lebron's game.

DJ's left nut
02-18-2010, 03:43 PM
The Knicks can't use the MLE until 2011. It would take a few years to fill out that roster, that team isn't capable of winning a title next year. Finding a pg, a legit center, defensive role-players and shooters, ie basically building an entire roster can't be done with just vet minimum players. That roster has 2, maybe 3 starters on a championship team.


It's setup for a 6-8 year run as the most dominant team in the league. Even if you had to wait until 2011, it's some patience I'd be willing to exhibit.

Besides, how can you argue that the Knicks as you posted aren't better than the Cavs were before Jamison? The Cavs had nobody even close to as good as Bosh; he's Varajeo squared. Chandler/Gallinari are easily as good as Williams/Gibson and have much MUCH more upside. And there are always guys like Camby around that would come over cheap.

That team would absolutely contend.

Psyko Tek
02-18-2010, 04:58 PM
He's essentially sharing a city with the Lakers if he went to the Clippers.

With the Knicks, he's the biggest star in the city. He's bigger than Jeter. Bigger than any Giant or Jet.

He's playing in the most scorer friendly offense in the NBA.

The Clippers have nice talent, but they never, ever get over the hump. Baron can break down at any point. Gordon is a nice complimentary piece.

If I'm Lebron, I'm talking to Bosh and convincing him to join in New York.

the question is do you want the bucks or the rings?

D'angello is not gonna win championships, man can he add stats and excitement

I don't see his brand of ball winning,
but damn it is fun to watch

Fruit Ninja
02-18-2010, 05:12 PM
Some nice trades overall.

Tonight is going to be some good games. Cavs Vs Nuggets and Lakers vs Celtics on TNT. lol

DJ's left nut
02-18-2010, 05:16 PM
the question is do you want the bucks or the rings?

D'angello is not gonna win championships, man can he add stats and excitement

I don't see his brand of ball winning,
but damn it is fun to watch

D'antoni?

And I disagree, he could win a title with the right personnel.

James is a perfect fit for his type of game, as is Bosh. Dwight Howard would be a better fit for D'antoni than any player in the league, IMO. Unfortunately there aren't a lot of selfless, athletic, gigantic, superhero-level athletes to be found out there.

Basileus777
02-25-2010, 06:52 PM
The Cavs performance since the trade is showing why the Jamison deal has its problems. Cleveland's defense has been downright terrible lately, and a large part of it is the fact that a Shaq/Jamison frontcourt is terrible on the defensive end. Combine that with an undersized backcourt and it becomes a legitimate question of whether Jamison is really making them a better team. He's taking minutes from Varejao at the 4, who happens to be Cleveland's only quality defender in the frontcourt.

Mecca
02-25-2010, 06:56 PM
Dallas is the team that won with it's trade.

Chocolate Hog
02-25-2010, 06:59 PM
No Houston won.

Basileus777
02-25-2010, 07:02 PM
No Houston won.\

That remains to be seen. Kevin Martin is still an injury prone 2nd/3rd tier guard that is on a bad contract.

chiefzilla1501
02-25-2010, 07:09 PM
The Cavs performance since the trade is showing why the Jamison deal has its problems. Cleveland's defense has been downright terrible lately, and a large part of it is the fact that a Shaq/Jamison frontcourt is terrible on the defensive end. Combine that with an undersized backcourt and it becomes a legitimate question of whether Jamison is really making them a better team. He's taking minutes from Varejao at the 4, who happens to be Cleveland's only quality defender in the frontcourt.

I think losing Z hurt them quite a bit too, but they'll get him back. That's a lot of minutes to lose for a center, especially when your starter is past his prime. They'll get him back, probably--should be interesting to see how that goes.

Mecca
02-25-2010, 07:10 PM
I think Dallas trade is the one that improved their team the most in relation to what everyone else did.

Caron Butler is better than Howard is and they got Heywood and Stevenson on top of that.

Basileus777
02-25-2010, 07:20 PM
I think losing Z hurt them quite a bit too, but they'll get him back. That's a lot of minutes to lose for a center, especially when your starter is past his prime. They'll get him back, probably--should be interesting to see how that goes.
Losing Z hurts, but he only plays 15-20 minutes most games and isn't a great defender. But getting him back will be important because it will let them give more minutes to Varejao at the 4 instead of Hickson.

I think Dallas trade is the one that improved their team the most in relation to what everyone else did.

Caron Butler is better than Howard is and they got Heywood and Stevenson on top of that.

I don't think there is any doubt, especially with Dampier getting hurt. Haywood has had a huge impact on their defense, Butler is an upgrade over Howard, and even Stevenson has played some good defense.

Chocolate Hog
02-25-2010, 07:31 PM
\

That remains to be seen. Kevin Martin is still an injury prone 2nd/3rd tier guard that is on a bad contract.

Martin is an underrated player and they swaped ppicks with the Knicks while not giving up much.