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RustShack
02-16-2010, 11:34 AM
Cassel's contract puts more pressure on 2010 season
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on February 16, 2010 1:28 PM ET

Chiefs fans looking to raise their blood pressure should check out today's article in the Kansas City Star regarding Matt Cassel's contract.

We knew Cassel's total contract figures, but the some of the front-loaded numbers in the deal are eye-opening. Cassel's $11.75 million base salary in 2010 ranks third among NFL quarterbacks.

The Chiefs brass says they fully believe in Cassel, and they know better than anyone how awful their offensive line and receivers played last season.

With that said, Cassel is getting paid like a top-five quarterback. We wonder if he must start producing like one to stay in Kansas City past 2010.

Cassel is due a raise to $12.25 million in 2011, including a $7.5 million option bonus. That kind of option is a checkpoint in the contract -- a time to get out. If we had to bet on it today, we'd guess Cassel stays in Kansas City in 2011 and beyond.

But the guy has to show some progress on the field. Another rough season, and the best option for the Chiefs will be to move on.

Pestilence
02-16-2010, 11:36 AM
That's fucking pathetic.

RustShack
02-16-2010, 11:37 AM
Cassel for Quinn straight up. Do it Carl!

Fish
02-16-2010, 11:37 AM
JFC.....

LaChapelle
02-16-2010, 11:39 AM
Tribal?

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1750628.html

JD10367
02-16-2010, 11:39 AM
In before the thread's locked. ROFL

DeezNutz
02-16-2010, 11:39 AM
We're lucky to have him!

HotRoute
02-16-2010, 12:01 PM
Cassel is better than Quinn. IMO

Detoxing
02-16-2010, 12:06 PM
Here is to hoping that Weis gets his boy

Tango&Cash
02-16-2010, 12:07 PM
Cassel is better than Quinn. IMO

and Clausen is better than both IMO.

Chocolate Hog
02-16-2010, 12:12 PM
Uncapped year doesn't matter. I believe the team has an option on him next year too.

Fish
02-16-2010, 12:18 PM
He just needs a better OLine, better QB coach, better WRs, better playcalling, more repetitions, consistent production from Charles, an arrowhead shaped buttplug, and a titanium flak jacket and helmet..... and then we'll see his true potential revealed...

You can't blame Cassel guys.... it's a process.....

KCrockaholic
02-16-2010, 12:20 PM
fwiw, the only 2 players getting paid more in 2010 are Peyton Manning and Brett Favre.

Sure-Oz
02-16-2010, 12:34 PM
When you can lock up Chad Pennington potential you do it!

HemiEd
02-16-2010, 12:35 PM
makes me sick. :Lin::Lin::Lin:

KCrockaholic
02-16-2010, 12:35 PM
When you can lock up Chad Pennington potential you do it!

Most efficient QB of all time FTW!

BigRedChief
02-16-2010, 12:36 PM
Man thats some saddening news. Glad its an uncapped year.

JASONSAUTO
02-16-2010, 12:47 PM
why does it REALLY matter what he gets paid and where it ranks? why?

Pestilence
02-16-2010, 12:52 PM
why does it REALLY matter what he gets paid and where it ranks? why?

Because he doesn't PLAY like he's the third highest paid QB in the NFL.

Fish
02-16-2010, 12:54 PM
why does it REALLY matter what he gets paid and where it ranks? why?

It further justifies the criticism that Pioli made a pretty big mistake in evaluating and executing his first blockbuster deal as GM.

Phobia
02-16-2010, 12:55 PM
why does it REALLY matter what he gets paid and where it ranks? why?

Okay, here we go:

1. Salary cap - I realize 2010 might be an exception but the salary cap matters.
2. Free agency - free agents point to Cassel's deal with the Chiefs and want more themselves.
3. Ticket prices - I've heard arguments that player salaries don't affect ticket prices. Hogwash. If players were playing for $100k do you think you'd have to pay $100 per seat? That argument is like saying actor salaries don't affect movie prices.
4. Team pride - fans want their team to spend wisely on their players. If the team throws away millions of dollars on a bust and they're not winning games... well, that's rough on a fan.
5. Your next QB is going to want a deal significantly higher than Cassel's .... Look at how bad that guy sucks and he banked $12M - I'm putting up better numbers - I want $18M.

I'm sure I could go on. We aren't writing the big check out of our own bank account but it matters.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-16-2010, 12:56 PM
It'd be nice if he started producing like a top 25 quarterback.

DeezNutz
02-16-2010, 01:00 PM
why does it REALLY matter what he gets paid and where it ranks? why?

It doesn't.

Mike Brown should be re-signed for around $10 million per. Same with Chambers.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 01:00 PM
Proof that we won't draft a QB. As if there wasn't enough already.

Phobia
02-16-2010, 01:01 PM
It doesn't.

Mike Brown should be re-signed for around $10 million per. Same with Chambers.

Man, sarcasm is so much easier. Why don't I ever think of that.

Brock
02-16-2010, 01:07 PM
If players were playing for $100k, ticket prices would still be whatever the market says they should be. Good grief.

KCrockaholic
02-16-2010, 01:11 PM
Proof that we won't draft a QB. As if there wasn't enough already.

I wish people would understand that we aren't going to draft a QB in round 1... They need to get over it.

Brock
02-16-2010, 01:12 PM
I wish people would understand that we aren't going to draft a QB in round 1... They need to get over it.

Oh, we know it. Get over it? Well, that's like being told to get over the fact that this team will probably go at least another decade without any real hope of winning a championship.

Reerun_KC
02-16-2010, 01:17 PM
ROFL

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 01:17 PM
Oh, we know it. Get over it? Well, that's like being told to get over the fact that this team will probably go at least another decade without any real hope of winning a championship.

Rex Grossman went to the Superbowl.

Rex. Grossman.

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/jss123/RexGrossman.png

I don't think our QB is our biggest problem.

Brock
02-16-2010, 01:18 PM
Rex Grossman went to the Superbowl.

Rex. Grossman.

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/jss123/RexGrossman.png

I don't think our QB is our biggest problem.

It's always funny when people act like this team should play to the exception and not the rule. "Yeah, hey man, Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl, whut about that?" :bong:

DeezNutz
02-16-2010, 01:19 PM
Rex Grossman went to the Superbowl.

Rex. Grossman.

I don't think our QB is our biggest problem.

And he lost. He. Lost.

For a team without a franchise QB, it's always a big concern.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-16-2010, 01:22 PM
I should just copy and paste the True Fan thread in here.

Fucking dumbasses.

Sweet Daddy Hate
02-16-2010, 01:23 PM
Two of the best prospects of this decade on the board and within reach, and we paid bank to the upside of 'Gannon-Light'.

PIOLI!

DaWolf
02-16-2010, 01:29 PM
Cassel is due a raise to $12.25 million in 2011, including a $7.5 million option bonus. That kind of option is a checkpoint in the contract -- a time to get out.

That's the key...

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 01:36 PM
It's always funny when people act like this team should play to the exception and not the rule. "Yeah, hey man, Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl, whut about that?" :bong:

The point is that good teams make QBs look better. Do you think Tom Brady would be an all-time great on the Browns? What about Ben Roethlisberger? QB is probably more important than any position, but you don't need Peyton Manning to win.

KCrockaholic
02-16-2010, 01:37 PM
The point is that good teams make QBs look better. Do you think Tom Brady would be an all-time great on the Browns? What about Ben Roethlisberger? QB is probably more important than any position, but you don't need Peyton Manning to win.

If your gonna have a shitty QB, you better have a top 3 defense to make up for it.

KC doesn't have a top 3 defense to make up for our poor QB play.

Brock
02-16-2010, 01:39 PM
The point is that good teams make QBs look better. Do you think Tom Brady would be an all-time great on the Browns? What about Ben Roethlisberger? QB is probably more important than any position, but you don't need Peyton Manning to win.

Your post proves a point, but it's not the one you're aiming for.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 01:40 PM
If your gonna have a shitty QB, you better have a top 3 defense to make up for it.

KC doesn't have a top 3 defense to make up for our poor QB play.

Right. So QB shouldn't be our biggest concern. This team has a lot of holes in it.

JOhn
02-16-2010, 01:43 PM
:popcorn:


This should be good......

JASONSAUTO
02-16-2010, 01:49 PM
It doesn't.

Mike Brown should be re-signed for around $10 million per. Same with Chambers.

not the point. not even close.


just think its funny that so many here say "who cares what it costs to get player x" and now it's "oooohhhhhhhh fuck we are paying x amount to this guy"


just another reason to bitch.

Reerun_KC
02-16-2010, 01:50 PM
Nice to have a QB locked up for awhile....

notorious
02-16-2010, 01:51 PM
just another reason to bitch.

It's the way the system works here dammit, don't fuck with it! :)

notorious
02-16-2010, 01:52 PM
Nice to have a QB locked up for awhile....

I wouldn't be throwing labels like "QB" at Cassel until he starts playing like one.

Reerun_KC
02-16-2010, 01:53 PM
I wouldn't be throwing labels like "QB" at Cassel until he starts playing like one.

Strange he is listed as one on the official roster....

:thumb:

Reerun_KC
02-16-2010, 01:54 PM
It's the way the system works here dammit, don't **** with it! :)

The sole purpose of my post was.....

http://www.idiomsbykids.com/taylor/mrtaylor/class20022003/idioms/idioms2003/idioms3/add%20fuel%20to%20the%20fire.jpg

Brock
02-16-2010, 01:58 PM
Right. So QB shouldn't be our biggest concern. This team has a lot of holes in it.

This team doesn't have a QB. There is no hole bigger than that.

DeezNutz
02-16-2010, 01:58 PM
not the point. not even close.


just think its funny that so many here say "who cares what it costs to get player x" and now it's "oooohhhhhhhh **** we are paying x amount to this guy"


just another reason to bitch.

Indeed.

Fish
02-16-2010, 02:01 PM
That's the key...

Are you saying we should be comforted that the organization has an escape plan from their own bad mistake?

Reerun_KC
02-16-2010, 02:03 PM
This team doesn't have a QB. There is no hole bigger than that.

Unfortantly, the Chiefs as an organization sees things differently.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 02:06 PM
Unfortantly, the Chiefs as an organization sees things differently.

This.

Regardless of what anyone else thinks, the Chiefs view Cassel as the solution. Until they get the rest of their team in place to truly evaluate him, they're not going to make any changes.

ct
02-16-2010, 02:09 PM
I see ChiefsPlanet hasn't changed any...

Fish
02-16-2010, 02:12 PM
This.

Regardless of what anyone else thinks, the Chiefs view Cassel as the solution. Until they get the rest of their team in place to truly evaluate him, they're not going to make any changes.

So we can't evaluate the 3rd highest paid QB in the league until we completely surround him with talent?

That's quite comforting.......

Brock
02-16-2010, 02:12 PM
This.

Regardless of what anyone else thinks, the Chiefs view Cassel as the solution. Until they get the rest of their team in place to truly evaluate him, they're not going to make any changes.

40 years and counting. Yay!

DeezNutz
02-16-2010, 02:12 PM
I see the Chiefs haven't changed any...

.

Frazod
02-16-2010, 02:13 PM
:shake:

Short Leash Hootie
02-16-2010, 02:14 PM
well obviously they front loaded the contract so we can get out if he blows in 2010...

DeezNutz
02-16-2010, 02:15 PM
well obviously they front loaded the contract so we can get out if he blows in 2010...

Or when our QBOTF is ready to take over? :grovel:

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 02:18 PM
I wonder why some people even like the Chiefs. Any thought that can be seen as optimistic is immediately shot down by cynicism. It never ceases to amaze me.

Brock
02-16-2010, 02:21 PM
I wonder why some people even like the Chiefs. Any thought that can be seen as optimistic is immediately shot down by cynicism. It never ceases to amaze me.

Wow, that's never been said here before. Maybe a homer board like WPI is more your speed.

DeezNutz
02-16-2010, 02:23 PM
Kansas City Chiefs, FUCK YEAH!

Pestilence
02-16-2010, 02:23 PM
I wonder why some people even like the Chiefs. Any thought that can be seen as optimistic is immediately shot down by cynicism. It never ceases to amaze me.

Sorry that some people just don't fucking blindly follow everything....

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 02:28 PM
I'm not saying we should just blindly follow everything, but fan and critic don't necessarily go hand in hand, regardless of what some people may think. I have a feeling that if we went on to win 5 Superbowls in a row it wouldn't be enough for some people.

Why not hope that something good might come out of Cassel? It seems like everyone is just waiting for him to fail only so they can be proven right. I wasn't a big fan of the trade when it happened, but it is what it is. It's too easy to criticize the QB when the team doesn't do well. The fact is that there were a lot of factors working against him this past season.

They will not draft another QB early this year, so why not focus on what needs to be addressed and realistically will?

Pestilence
02-16-2010, 02:30 PM
I'm not saying we should just blindly follow everything, but fan and critic don't necessarily go hand in hand, regardless of what some people may think. I have a feeling that if we went on to win 5 Superbowls in a row it wouldn't be enough for some people.

Why not hope that something good might come out of Cassel? It seems like everyone is just waiting for him to fail only so they can be proven right. I wasn't a big fan of the trade when it happened, but it is what it is. It's too easy to criticize the QB when the team doesn't do well. The fact is that there were a lot of factors working against him this past season.

They will not draft another QB early this year, so why not focus on what needs to be addressed and realistically will?

There were a lot of factors working against him?

Like the offensive line getting better towards the end of the season?

Like Charles actually taking some heat off of him by rushing for a shit ton?

Yet....Cassel actually regressed and got worse.

I wasn't a fan of the trade. I wasn't a fan of giving the man $63 million dollars.

DeezNutz
02-16-2010, 02:32 PM
ChiefsPlanet isn't easy. ChiefsPlanet is advanced board membership. You've gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want to post freely? Let's see you acknowledge a douche whose posts make your blood boil, who's standing atop page one and advocating in all caps that which you would spend an evening opposing in your most heated diction." You want to claim this board is the best? Then the symbol of your team cannot just be an arrowhead. The symbol also has to be one of its fans exercising his right to piss on that arrowhead and defecate on the legacy of the front office. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your threads.

Then you can stand up and say you're not a True Fan.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 02:34 PM
There were a lot of factors working against him?

Like the offensive line getting better towards the end of the season?

Like Charles actually taking some heat off of him by rushing for a shit ton?

Yet....Cassel actually regressed and got worse.

I wasn't a fan of the trade. I wasn't a fan of giving the man $63 million dollars.

Like not having a consistent WR corps? That they dropped anything resembling a catchable ball?:

Like his entire offensive game plan that he had studied and worked on for 6 months being scrapped less than 2 weeks before the start of the season? Or having what seemed to be an entirely different game plan every single game of the season?

Like not having a dedicated offensive coordinator with whom to discuss how he could improve?


If you want to question somebody, question Haley. He seems to be the cause of all of the above issues.

Brock
02-16-2010, 02:38 PM
I have a feeling that if we went on to win 5 Superbowls in a row it wouldn't be enough for some people.

LMAO

Pestilence
02-16-2010, 02:39 PM
Like not having a consistent WR corps? That they dropped anything resembling a catchable ball?:

Like his entire offensive game plan that he had studied and worked on for 6 months being scrapped less than 2 weeks before the start of the season? Or having what seemed to be an entirely different game plan every single game of the season?

Like not having a dedicated offensive coordinator with whom to discuss how he could improve?


If you want to question somebody, question Haley. He seems to be the cause of all of the above issues.

I just have to get used to the fact that there will ALWAYS be an excuse for Cassel. It doesn't matter how much he sucks.....it's not his fault.....ever.

DeezNutz
02-16-2010, 02:40 PM
I'm not saying we should just blindly follow everything, but fan and critic don't necessarily go hand in hand, regardless of what some people may think. I have a feeling that if we went on to win 5 Superbowls in a row it wouldn't be enough for some people.

Why not hope that something good might come out of Cassel? It seems like everyone is just waiting for him to fail only so they can be proven right. I wasn't a big fan of the trade when it happened, but it is what it is. It's too easy to criticize the QB when the team doesn't do well. The fact is that there were a lot of factors working against him this past season.

They will not draft another QB early this year, so why not focus on what needs to be addressed and realistically will?

LMAO.

Well, unfortunately, I'm forced to think. It's one of the first dominoes to fall when I wake up in the morning sucking oxygen.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 02:59 PM
Matthew Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
JaMarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler
Alex Smith
Aaron Rodgers
Jason Campbell

All 1st round QBs that have been drafted in the year that Cassel was and thereafter. Really, how many of them are much better than he is? Especially considering he has started for only two years and his supporting cast.

Let's make the money irrelevant for a moment (because if Cassel's contract sees completion it probably won't be near the top half of QBs at that point). How many of these guys would you rather have, without bias?

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 03:02 PM
Matthew Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
<del>JaMarcus Russell</del>
<del>Brady Quinn</del>
Vince Young
<del>Matt Leinart</del>
Jay Cutler
Alex Smith
Aaron Rodgers
Jason Campbell

All 1st round QBs that have been drafted in the year that Cassel was and thereafter. Really, how many of them are much better than he is? Especially considering he has started for only two years and his supporting cast.

Let's make the money irrelevant for a moment (because if Cassel's contract sees completion it probably won't be near the top half of QBs at that point). How many of these guys would you rather have, without bias?

That was tough...

And it could be argued that Russell is the only one WORSE than Cassel, while Leinart and Brady are definitely no worse, and could be better.

DeezNutz
02-16-2010, 03:03 PM
8/12 for sure. Maybe 9.

As OTW notes, the others are only fine shades of difference, so if they're cheaper...sure.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:03 PM
That was tough...

And it could be argued that Russell is the only one WORSE than Cassel, while Leinart and Brady are definitely no worse, and could be better.

Jason Campbell? Alex Smith? Mark Sanchez?

You're just trying to argue with me now, aren't you?

tyler360
02-16-2010, 03:04 PM
I think this was supposed to go in the epic fail thread.

Chocolate Hog
02-16-2010, 03:04 PM
Sorry that some people just don't ****ing blindly follow everything....

Thats a tired line honestly. People like Mecca stop showing up when the Chiefs win.

Marcellus
02-16-2010, 03:04 PM
I just have to get used to the fact that there will ALWAYS be an excuse for Cassel. It doesn't matter how much he sucks.....it's not his fault.....ever.

Typical CP bullshit. Who has said he doesn't need to play better? Nothing is his fault, who said that? Why does it have to be extreme left or right?

Could it be he has to play better and improve and he needs more talent around him?

I am not saying I know Cassel is going to emulate Gannon or anything but I remember watching Gannon play earlier in his career in Minny and early with KC (you know the guy who couldn't beat out Bono) and thought Holy Shit this guy sucks balls. And he did, he sucked ass early in his career. At some point it clicked and he got better and rather than crying like a bitch all the time I am going to root for the guy and hope he makes that step.

Brock
02-16-2010, 03:05 PM
Thats a tired line honestly. Mecca stop showing up when the Chiefs win.

FYP

DeezNutz
02-16-2010, 03:05 PM
Jason Campbell? Alex Smith? Mark Sanchez?

You're just trying to argue with me now, aren't you?

Bait? Has to be...

Brock
02-16-2010, 03:06 PM
Typical CP bullshit. Who has said he doesn't need to play better? Nothing is his fault, who said that? Why does it have to be extreme left or right?
.

All these posts that say "We need to fix the offensive line, upgrade the receivers and get another RB before we can definitively say he sucks".

Chocolate Hog
02-16-2010, 03:06 PM
FYP

Thats not nice Brock.

DeezNutz
02-16-2010, 03:07 PM
"We can't judge him yet."

Fish
02-16-2010, 03:08 PM
Like not having a consistent WR corps? That they dropped anything resembling a catchable ball?:

Like his entire offensive game plan that he had studied and worked on for 6 months being scrapped less than 2 weeks before the start of the season? Or having what seemed to be an entirely different game plan every single game of the season?

Like not having a dedicated offensive coordinator with whom to discuss how he could improve?


If you want to question somebody, question Haley. He seems to be the cause of all of the above issues.

How dare we expect that the 3rd highest paid QB in the league to have to deal with any challenges. I mean, compare him to those 2 QBs above him in terms of pay. Peyton Manning's WRs didn't ever drop the ball this year. His OLine were all pro bowlers. Favre didn't have to deal with any new offensive schemes, coaches, or players this year. That must be why they were both playing in January huh?

How dare we expect the highest paid player on the entire team to actually lead those around him, instead of relying on his supporting cast.

Let's question the head coach instead, because nobody has thought of that yet.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:08 PM
All these posts that say "We need to fix the offensive line, upgrade the receivers and get another RB before we can definitively say he sucks".

No, the point is that we have to give him a fair chance before we can honestly assess his performance.

Pestilence
02-16-2010, 03:08 PM
Typical CP bullshit. Who has said he doesn't need to play better? Nothing is his fault, who said that? Why does it have to be extreme left or right?

Could it be he has to play better and improve and he needs more talent around him?

I am not saying I know Cassel is going to emulate Gannon or anything but I remember watching Gannon play earlier in his career in Minny and early with KC (you know the guy who couldn't beat out Bono) and thought Holy Shit this guy sucks balls. And he did, he sucked ass early in his career. At some point it clicked and he got better and rather than crying like a bitch all the time I am going to root for the guy and hope he makes that step.


See below.


All these posts that say "We need to fix the offensive line, upgrade the receivers and get another RB before we can definitively say he sucks".

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 03:08 PM
Jason Campbell? Alex Smith? Mark Sanchez?

You're just trying to argue with me now, aren't you?

There is no argument.

Christ, Campbell was the 15th rated QB this year, playing behind an OL that was worse than ours, with WR's that were worse than ours, and with a running game that was worse than ours.

Alex Smith threw for more TD's than Cassel, and started 5 fewer games. He also completed over 60% of his passes and had a 1.5:1 TD:INT ratio.

Sanchez has been argued to death.

Brock
02-16-2010, 03:09 PM
No, the point is that we have to give him a fair chance before we can honestly assess his performance.

He's had two years to show what he is. And what he is is a backup QB with limited game.

Pestilence
02-16-2010, 03:09 PM
No, the point is that we have to give him a fair chance before we can honestly assess his performance.

Dude....he got FUCKING WORSE after the offensive line started playing better and Charles was kicking ass.

And how many of those drops by the WRs were because Cassel wasn't throwing the greatest fucking passes?

I'm not here to crucify the guy....but he's not playing like a 2nd rounder with a $63 million dollar contract.

Chocolate Hog
02-16-2010, 03:10 PM
There is no argument.

Christ, Campbell was the 15th rated QB this year, playing behind an OL that was worse than ours, with WR's that were worse than ours, and with a running game that was worse than ours.

Alex Smith threw for more TD's than Cassel, and started 5 fewer games. He also completed over 60% of his passes and had a 1.5:1 TD:INT ratio.

Sanchez has been argued to death.

Those were all screen passes.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:10 PM
How dare we expect that the 3rd highest paid QB in the league to have to deal with any challenges. I mean, compare him to those 2 QBs above him in terms of pay. Peyton Manning's WRs didn't ever drop the ball this year. His OLine were all pro bowlers. Favre didn't have to deal with any new offensive schemes, coaches, or players this year. That must be why they were both playing in January huh?

How dare we expect the highest paid player on the entire team to actually lead those around him, instead of relying on his supporting cast.

Let's question the head coach instead, because nobody has thought of that yet.

Favre didn't have a new scheme, which is why the Vikings were so attractive to him. It was the same exact offense/terminology that he's been using for 15 years.

Manning is throwing to Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark. Manning's offensive line is light years ahead of where Cassel's was at any point in the season. How can that even be debated?

Besides that, I'm not comparing Cassel to future first ballot hall of famers. That's inane. I'm just really surprised that everybody wants to throw him under the bus already.

Marcellus
02-16-2010, 03:10 PM
All these posts that say "We need to fix the offensive line, upgrade the receivers and get another RB before we can definitively say he sucks".

It is the typical CP problem. You cant defend anybody or anything without being an all out homer or believe they are the next coming of JC.

My criticism and disappointment of Cassel grew as the year went on I will admit that. He has to play better or he wont see that $ in 2011. That is why teh contract is structured that way.

i am just not going to to throw him under the bus until he has had a chance to work with Weiss and have a full off season working on the offense.

I think that's more important the the line and other stuff.

DeezNutz
02-16-2010, 03:11 PM
Cassel is a leader of men.

How many QBs in the league could put one off the crossbars as accurately and poetically as Matty in the clutch?

Jump ball, bitches.

Brock
02-16-2010, 03:12 PM
It is the typical CP problem. You cant defend anybody or anything without being an all out homer or believe they are the next coming of JC.

My criticism and disappointment of Cassel grew as the year went on I will admit that. He has to play better or he wont see that $ in 2011. That is why teh contract is structured that way.

i am just not going to to throw him under the bus until he has had a chance to work with Weiss and have a full off season working on the offense.

I think that's more important the the line and other stuff.

He's no reason to pass on drafting a QB. You're holding out hope he's going to suddenly improve beyond what we've seen, and it's unlikely.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:14 PM
He's no reason to pass on drafting a QB. You're holding out hope he's going to suddenly improve beyond what we've seen, and it's unlikely.

In one breath people are lamenting the fact that we gave Cassel this contract, and then the same people turn around and advocate drafting another QB that will probably get a very similar contract and who is unproven. It just doesn't make sense.

Chocolate Hog
02-16-2010, 03:15 PM
Sure it does. I have no reason not to believe Weis and if the Chiefs can draft a franchise QB who will play for 10-15 years opposed to another QB who will play 6 at the most i'll gladly draft Clausen.

DeezNutz
02-16-2010, 03:17 PM
In one breath people are lamenting the fact that we gave Cassel this contract, and then the same people turn around and advocate drafting another QB that will probably get a very similar contract and who is unproven. It just doesn't make sense.

Because he's not worth it.

A young player with legit upside IS worth the risk, financial and otherwise. The fact that this continues to be a debate is baffling.

"Unproven." Fuck. Until this team drafts and develops its own franchise QB, we won't win a ****ing thing of real value.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 03:18 PM
In one breath people are lamenting the fact that we gave Cassel this contract, and then the same people turn around and advocate drafting another QB that will probably get a very similar contract and who is unproven. It just doesn't make sense.

It makes all the sense in the world.

If you're going to give a big contract to a QB would you give it to the 22 year old out of college that has the talent, makeup and physical tools to be an elite, franchise QB?

Or would you give it to the 27 year old career backup that has never, and will never be thought of as a potential franchise QB?

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 03:19 PM
Because he's not worth it.

A young player with legit upside IS worth the risk, financial and otherwise. The fact that this continues to be a debate is baffling.

"Unproven." Fuck. Until this team drafts and develops its own franchise QB, we won't win a ****ing thing of real value.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u159/robrabies/tfs.gif

Marcellus
02-16-2010, 03:20 PM
He's no reason to pass on drafting a QB. You're holding out hope he's going to suddenly improve beyond what we've seen, and it's unlikely.

So let me get this straight.

When he went 11-5 in NE his first year starting since HS it was 100% due to the level of talent around him.

When he went 4-12 here in KC it had 0% to do with the level of talent around him?

Gotcha.

I am not some Cassel loving homer but the hatred has gotten out of hand.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:20 PM
Or would you give it to the 27 year old career backup that has never, and will never be thought of as a potential franchise QB?

That's just it. The Chiefs organization views Cassel as the franchise QB. Not potential. He is the guy. All of the arguments in the world won't change that. I think that's what people fail to understand.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 03:21 PM
So let me get this straight.

When he went 11-5 in NE his first year starting since HS it was 100% due to the level of talent around him.

When he went 4-12 here in KC it had 0% to do with the level of talent around him?

Gotcha.

I am not some Cassel loving homer but the hatred has gotten out of hand.

Christ, a fucking COLTS FAN saw this coming, but our dumbass fanbase doesn't understand.

http://www.mycolts.net/blogs/peytonspla_blog/archive/2009/07/14/matt-cassel-buyer-beware-of-yac.aspx

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 03:22 PM
That's just it. The Chiefs organization views Cassel as the franchise QB. Not potential. He is the guy. All of the arguments in the world won't change that. I think that's what people fail to understand.

Oh, we understand it.

We also understand this team will never win a fucking thing with him as the starting QB.

Do YOU think Matt Cassel is capable of putting a team on his shoulders and winning a championship?

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:24 PM
Christ, a fucking COLTS FAN saw this coming, but our dumbass fanbase doesn't understand.

http://www.mycolts.net/blogs/peytonspla_blog/archive/2009/07/14/matt-cassel-buyer-beware-of-yac.aspx

So the fact that he was throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker, plus the fact that his offensive gameplan called for a lot of screen passes, is negative? Does that speak more to the skill of Cassel or his receiving crew?

Maybe Cassel should have thrown to receivers that weren't as open, or maybe he should have asked them to fall down after 4.9 yards.

Marcellus
02-16-2010, 03:24 PM
It makes all the sense in the world.

If you're going to give a big contract to a QB would you give it to the 22 year old out of college that has the talent, makeup and physical tools to be an elite, franchise QB?

Or would you give it to the 27 year old career backup that has never, and will never be thought of as a potential franchise QB?

Except the contract given the rookie will cost more in guaranteed money and will not have a fairly easy out option in a few years. It isn't the same thing.

He plays well or he is gone after 2011. It is the same argument used against me with the Bledsoe deal when NE gave him $100MM contract right after they drafted Brady. How much of the $100MM did Bledsoe see?

Brock
02-16-2010, 03:25 PM
So let me get this straight.

When he went 11-5 in NE his first year starting since HS it was 100% due to the level of talent around him.

When he went 4-12 here in KC it had 0% to do with the level of talent around him?

Gotcha.

I am not some Cassel loving homer but the hatred has gotten out of hand.

I don't care about how many games he won or lost in KC. I knew this team was going to suck. What I'm talking about is Cassel and his lame play. Watch him play. Have you looked at that deep ball? Look at it.

Pestilence
02-16-2010, 03:25 PM
So the fact that he was throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker, plus the fact that his offensive gameplan called for a lot of screen passes, is negative? Does that speak more to the skill of Cassel or his receiving crew?

Maybe Cassel should have thrown to receivers that weren't as open, or maybe he should have asked them to fall down after 4.9 yards.

The gameplan called for more screen passes because that's what Cassel can do. He didn't have the arm or the accuracy to toss it up to Moss.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 03:25 PM
So the fact that he was throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker, plus the fact that his offensive gameplan called for a lot of screen passes, is negative? Does that speak more to the skill of Cassel or his receiving crew?

Maybe Cassel should have thrown to receivers that weren't as open, or maybe he should have asked them to fall down after 4.9 yards.

This post is chock full of stupid.

Fish
02-16-2010, 03:25 PM
That's just it. The Chiefs organization views Cassel as the franchise QB. Not potential. He is the guy. All of the arguments in the world won't change that. I think that's what people fail to understand.

Yeah, the organization is just glowing with confident praise....

Q: Charlie, what do you think of Cassel?

Weis: He's on the team.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:26 PM
Oh, we understand it.

We also understand this team will never win a fucking thing with him as the starting QB.

Do YOU think Matt Cassel is capable of putting a team on his shoulders and winning a championship?

He's not Peyton Manning. A Cassel-led team will not be a playoff contender every year merely because of his presence. However, he's already proven that he can take a team to the playoffs. He's done it once. (And please don't argue that he took a 16-0 team and made them 11-5. Tom Brady himself went 10-6 with the team this year.)

To answer your question, he can be successful with the right supporting cast, like 80% of the other QBs in the league.

Marcellus
02-16-2010, 03:26 PM
Christ, a ****ing COLTS FAN saw this coming, but our dumbass fanbase doesn't understand.

http://www.mycolts.net/blogs/peytonspla_blog/archive/2009/07/14/matt-cassel-buyer-beware-of-yac.aspx

I understand the talent difference and YAC. I also understand the complete fucking lack of talent our team has JC aside.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:28 PM
This post is chock full of stupid.

I just don't see how that's a knock on him. All it does is prove that stats can be skewed in any way to make an argument.

Fish
02-16-2010, 03:29 PM
He's not Peyton Manning. A Cassel-led team will not be a playoff contender every year merely because of his presence. However, he's already proven that he can take a team to the playoffs. He's done it once. (And please don't argue that he took a 16-0 team and made them 11-5. Tom Brady himself went 10-6 with the team this year.)

To answer your question, he can be successful with the right supporting cast, like 80% of the other QBs in the league.

Webster's definition of Leader: Successful with the right supporting cast.

Hooray Cassel!

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 03:30 PM
Except the contract given the rookie will cost more in guaranteed money and will not have a fairly easy out option in a few years. It isn't the same thing.

He plays well or he is gone after 2011. It is the same argument used against me with the Bledsoe deal when NE gave him $100MM contract right after they drafted Brady. How much of the $100MM did Bledsoe see?

Spoken like a true chickenshit that is worried a QB might bust.

You pick Clausen, and if he flames out, you take the risk again. And again, if need be.

Being too chickenshit to take a calculated risk at the most important position on the field is the reason why this franchise is 40+ years without sniffing a championship.

Pocket aces might occasionally get snapped off by some dipshit running you down with 8-3 offsuit, but that doesn't mean you should quit raising every time you get them.

Instead, we keep folding them, and putting all our chips in with marginal hands, hoping to beat the odds and get lucky.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:31 PM
Webster's definition of Leader: Successful with the right supporting cast.

Hooray Cassel!

Show me a QB that wins in spite of his team and not because of it. And not a once in a generation Hall-of-Fame talent, which Cassel clearly is not.

Mecca
02-16-2010, 03:31 PM
He's not Peyton Manning. A Cassel-led team will not be a playoff contender every year merely because of his presence. However, he's already proven that he can take a team to the playoffs. He's done it once. (And please don't argue that he took a 16-0 team and made them 11-5. Tom Brady himself went 10-6 with the team this year.)

To answer your question, he can be successful with the right supporting cast, like 80% of the other QBs in the league.

The Pats didn't make the playoffs last year..so actually he's never proven it.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 03:32 PM
He's not Peyton Manning. A Cassel-led team will not be a playoff contender every year merely because of his presence. However, he's already proven that he can take a team to the playoffs. He's done it once. (And please don't argue that he took a 16-0 team and made them 11-5. Tom Brady himself went 10-6 with the team this year.)

To answer your question, he can be successful with the right supporting cast, like 80% of the other QBs in the league.

That didn't answer the question at all.

Let's try again. Simple yes or no answer.

Do YOU think Matt Cassel is capable of putting a team on his shoulders and winning a championship?

Mecca
02-16-2010, 03:32 PM
Spoken like a true chickenshit that is worried a QB might bust.

You pick Clausen, and if he flames out, you take the risk again. And again, if need be.

Being too chickenshit to take a calculated risk at the most important position on the field is the reason why this franchise is 40+ years without sniffing a championship.

Pocket aces might occasionally get snapped off by some dipshit running you down with 8-3 offsuit, but that doesn't mean you should quit raising every time you get them.

Instead, we keep folding them, and putting all our chips in with marginal hands, hoping to beat the odds and get lucky.

We call this the typical Chiefs fan base, where people want the 90's back where we just made the playoffs and nothing else.

Marcellus
02-16-2010, 03:35 PM
I just think it is cool on CP to bash Cassel endlessly and without mercy.

The beauty of it is he could have a good year next year and play extremely well and there is no harm in bashing the shit out of the guy you just go, hey I was wrong. Awesome.

Like I have said I am not just sold on him, he has to play better. I also know we will have him start probably 16 games next year. I am not going to root for the guy to fail.

I don't see the gain in the constant negativity.

Also, who the fuck didn't know Cassel was going to be one of the highest paid guys next year? Seriously, Who didn't know that before the article?

The reality is Payton, will break the bank and several other QB's are making more with their bonus and base salaries. Rivers and Eli for example.

Mecca
02-16-2010, 03:35 PM
No, the point is that we have to give him a fair chance before we can honestly assess his performance.

This is just the excuse posse is all this is, by this estimation a QB should get 10 years to prove something.

How dare Buffalo and Washington want to get new QB's, their guys haven't gotten a fair shot either right?

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:35 PM
That didn't answer the question at all.

Let's try again. Simple yes or no answer.

Do YOU think Matt Cassel is capable of putting a team on his shoulders and winning a championship?

It's not a simple yes or no answer.

Can Jamaal Charles rush for 2000 yards? Yes or no.

Can Brandon Flowers get 10 INTs? Yes or no.

There are a lot of variables at play. Obviously he could not do that with the team that we have right now, no. No quarterback could. It's a loaded question.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:36 PM
This is just the excuse posse is all this is, by this estimation a QB should get 10 years to prove something.

How dare Buffalo and Washington want to get new QB's, their guys haven't gotten a fair shot either right?

No, but 2 years isn't unrealistic, is it? And Campbell's been starting for 4 years now or so. That's irrelevant.

Mecca
02-16-2010, 03:36 PM
I just think it is cool on CP to bash Cassel endlessly and without mercy.

The beauty of it is he could have a good year next year and play extremely well and there is no harm in bashing the shit out of the guy you just go, hey I was wrong. Awesome.

Like I have said I am not just sold on him, he has to play better. I also know we will have him start probably 16 games next year. I am not going to root for the guy to fail.

I don't see the gain in the constant negativity.

Also, who the fuck didn't know Cassel was going to be one of the highest paid guys next year? Seriously, Who didn't know that before the article?

The reality is Payton, will break the bank and several other QB's are making more with their bonus and base salaries. Rivers and Eli for example.

I think the point is several saw this coming a year ago, and now that it's playing out exactly like it was called there is still no solid response.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 03:36 PM
I just think it is cool on CP to bash Cassel endlessly and without mercy.

Funny, it used to be.

Then we actually traded for him, and 90% of the board did a 180 and decided to ignore everything they said they hated about him, and claim he's the answer.

Mecca
02-16-2010, 03:37 PM
No, but 2 years isn't unrealistic, is it? And Campbell's been starting for 4 years now or so. That's irrelevant.

He's going to be 28 when next season starts not 23.

Mecca
02-16-2010, 03:38 PM
Funny, it used to be.

Then we actually traded for him, and 90% of the board did a 180 and decided to ignore everything they said they hated about him, and claim he's the answer.

That thread is still one of the funniest in the forum, a handful of posters wanted him most wanted nothing to do with him. Move is made and everyone 180's the few that don't are raked over the coals for being bad fans.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:39 PM
I think the point is several saw this coming a year ago, and now that it's playing out exactly like it was called there is still no solid response.

Saw what coming? That this team wouldn't be good in 2009? Show me somebody who was arguing that it would be. The consensus was that it would be a tough year for the entire team. Why should the QB be exempt from that?

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:40 PM
He's going to be 28 when next season starts not 23.

With the same starting experience and even less experience in the offensive system. He's still got the same tread on the tires. He's a QB, not a RB. He could realistically play at a high level for 10 more years.

Mecca
02-16-2010, 03:41 PM
Saw what coming? That this team wouldn't be good in 2009? Show me somebody who was arguing that it would be. The consensus was that it would be a tough year for the entire team. Why should the QB be exempt from that?

That Cassel was a product of playing on possibly the most explosive offense in the entire league. No where else in the league is he going to get to work with Randy Moss who can take a 2 yard pass 80 or Wes Welker who's the best underneath guy in the business...or the fact that he is that because teams fear Moss.

Even in his NE year, his downfield accuracy numbers are awful, a huge chunk of his stats come on balls completed behind the LOS.

Did you know when scouts judge accuracy they look at passes over 10 yards to judge true accuracy? What does that make Cassel's true accuracy? About 35%?

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 03:42 PM
It's not a simple yes or no answer.

Can Jamaal Charles rush for 2000 yards? Yes or no.

Can Brandon Flowers get 10 INTs? Yes or no.

There are a lot of variables at play. Obviously he could not do that with the team that we have right now, no. No quarterback could. It's a loaded question.

It is a simple yes or no answer.

You're dodging it for one simple reason.

If you say yes, you look like a fucking retard, and if you say no, your argument goes out the fucking window.

It takes a true franchise QB to win consistently in this league.

Peyton Manning
Roethlisberger
Brady
Eli Manning
Brees
Elway
Favre
Aikman
Warner
Young

That's 16 of the last 18 SB winning QB's.

Cassel couldn't sniff those guys jocks. It's not even CLOSE.

Mecca
02-16-2010, 03:43 PM
With the same starting experience and even less experience in the offensive system. He's still got the same tread on the tires. He's a QB, not a RB. He could realistically play at a high level for 10 more years.

That's a really bad argument, that's seriously like saying he should be treated like a rookie, WTF did we do, draft Chris Weinke?

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:44 PM
That Cassel was a product of playing on possibly the most explosive offense in the entire league. No where else in the league is he going to get to work with Randy Moss who can take a 2 yard pass 80 or Wes Welker who's the best underneath guy in the business...or the fact that he is that because teams fear Moss.

Even in his NE year, his downfield accuracy numbers are awful, a huge chunk of his stats come on balls completed behind the LOS.

Did you know when scouts judge accuracy they look at passes over 10 yards to judge true accuracy? What does that make Cassel's true accuracy? About 35%?

So if we get a better supporting cast he'll be a better QB?

And he was essentially a rookie in his time with NE. It's not like he was being groomed to take over for Brady. He should be judged as one. Not many rookies come into the NFL with the accuracy of a proven veteran.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:45 PM
It is a simple yes or no answer.

You're dodging it for one simple reason.

If you say yes, you look like a fucking retard, and if you say no, your argument goes out the fucking window.

It takes a true franchise QB to win consistently in this league.

Peyton Manning
Roethlisberger
Brady
Eli Manning
Brees
Elway
Favre
Aikman
Warner
Young

That's 16 of the last 18 SB winning QB's.

Cassel couldn't sniff those guys jocks. It's not even CLOSE.

How many of them would win a Superbowl with the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs?

edit: 7 of the 10 you listed are sure-fire Hall of Famers, which nobody is arguing Cassel is. It's a loaded question.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 03:45 PM
Someone is still dodging the question.

Mecca
02-16-2010, 03:45 PM
So if we get a better supporting cast he'll be a better QB?

And he was essentially a rookie in his time with NE. It's not like he was being groomed to take over for Brady. He should be judged as one. Not many rookies come into the NFL with the accuracy of a proven veteran.

If that's how you wanna build the team we'll never win, it's a QB driven league and you're sitting here talking about getting other guys so Cassel can be ok.

It's fucking ridiculous it's the same spot we've been in for well over 30 years and it's still being subscribed to, frankly it makes me puke.

Mecca
02-16-2010, 03:46 PM
How many of them would win a Superbowl with the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs?

:facepalm:

No one asked him to win the Superbowl this year, we asked him to not shit his pants, he couldn't even do that.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 03:46 PM
How many of them would win a Superbowl with the 2009 Kansas City Chiefs?

Put Cassel on this year's Saints or Colts teams.

You'd be hard pressed to say either even make the playoffs, much less win the Super Bowl.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:51 PM
Put Cassel on this year's Saints or Colts teams.

You'd be hard pressed to say either even make the playoffs, much less win the Super Bowl.

Drew Brees fits his offensive system perfectly. It was designed for him and his strengths. Don't forget that he wasn't great with the Chargers (one injury and they dump him). Cassel hasn't gotten that luxury. He's taken a great team and led them to a very good record. He's taken a terrible team and led them to a very poor record. That is how he should be judged.

Fish
02-16-2010, 03:52 PM
So if we get a better supporting cast he'll be a better QB?

And he was essentially a rookie in his time with NE. It's not like he was being groomed to take over for Brady. He should be judged as one. Not many rookies come into the NFL with the accuracy of a proven veteran.

Of course he'd be better with a better supporting cast. That's what he is. That's how you describe crappy average QBs. Dependent on their surroundings. Which is why we're talking about him like he's an average game manager at best.

But the fact remains, he's being paid like he's a Manning or a Favre.

And if you don't think he was ever thought of as a replacement for Brady, then how can you be OK with paying him like he was? You're saying it's OK to pay a backup as much as Manning or Favre.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 03:53 PM
Drew Brees fits his offensive system perfectly. It was designed for him and his strengths. Don't forget that he wasn't great with the Chargers (one injury and they dump him). Cassel hasn't gotten that luxury. He's taken a great team and led them to a very good record. He's taken a terrible team and led them to a very poor record. That is how he should be judged.

Are you incapable of answering a simple question?

Christ, I'll make it REALLY easy for you:

Take ANY of the 2009 playoff teams.

Make Matt Cassel the starting QB.

Does that team win a playoff game?

Two?

Three?

Win the SB?

YOU pick the team. Go ahead.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:53 PM
Of course he'd be better with a better supporting cast. That's what he is. That's how you describe crappy average QBs. Which is why we're talking about him like he's an average game manager at best.

But the fact remains, he's being paid like he's a Manning or a Favre.

And if you don't think he was ever thought of as a replacement for Brady, then how can you be OK with paying him like he was? You're saying it's OK to pay a backup as much as Manning or Favre.

I'm not concerned about the money. In the next few years he will be a middle of the road QB in pay. That's just how salary inflation has been with the NFL lately. He's only paid so much because he just signed the contract.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 03:55 PM
Of course he'd be better with a better supporting cast. That's what he is. That's how you describe crappy average QBs. Dependent on their surroundings. Which is why we're talking about him like he's an average game manager at best.

But the fact remains, he's being paid like he's a Manning or a Favre.

And if you don't think he was ever thought of as a replacement for Brady, then how can you be OK with paying him like he was? You're saying it's OK to pay a backup as much as Manning or Favre.

Holy shit, I missed that earlier.

NE didn't think enough of him to groom him as Brady's replacement, yet it's OK he's being paid like Peyton Manning and performing like JaMarcus Russell.

Awesome.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:55 PM
Are you incapable of answering a simple question?

Christ, I'll make it REALLY easy for you:

Take ANY of the 2009 playoff teams.

Make Matt Cassel the starting QB.

Does that team win a playoff game?

Two?

Three?

Win the SB?

YOU pick the team. Go ahead.

I don't need to. He led a team to 11-5 (the first 11-5 team to ever miss the playoffs if I'm correct). We don't need to speak in hypotheticals.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 03:55 PM
I don't need to. He led a team to 11-5 (the first 11-5 team to ever miss the playoffs if I'm correct). We don't need to speak in hypotheticals.

You lose.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 03:57 PM
You lose.

How?

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 04:00 PM
How?

You're too chickenshit to argue your point.

I'm GIVING you talented teams. Your excuse is he has no talent around him. I'm giving you the opportunity to surround him with the most talented teams of 2009.

So, pick a team.

Do YOU think Matt Cassel is capable of winning a championship on one (again, YOUR choice, since you want to make excuses) of the 2009 playoff teams?

It's really not that hard, but I can see why you wouldn't want to answer.

Mainly, because you're full of shit.

Fish
02-16-2010, 04:03 PM
I don't need to. He led a team to 11-5 (the first 11-5 team to ever miss the playoffs if I'm correct). We don't need to speak in hypotheticals.

Trent Dilfer also lead a team to the SB.

But you know the difference between the Dilfer and Cassel?

Dilfer signed a contract the next season to be a backup to Hasselbeck.
Cassel signed a contract making him the 3rd highest paid QB.

Hypothetically.....

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 04:03 PM
You're too chickenshit to argue your point.

I'm GIVING you talented teams. You're excuse is he has no talent around him.

So, pick a team.

Do YOU think Matt Cassel is capable of winning a championship on one (again, YOUR choice, since you want to make excuses) of the 2009 playoff teams?

It's really not that hard, but I can see why you wouldn't want to answer.

Mainly, because you're full of shit.

What's the point? It's all hypothetical. One team won the Superbowl last year. Not Roethlisberger, not Brady, not Rivers, not Schaub, not Palmer, not Rodgers, not Favre, not either Manning, etc.

One team won it. Only one. By your logic (a 2009 SB win) I could place Cassel with all of those QBs listed above. I'm not that naive.

What you can judge Cassel by is what he's already done. Fact is, he's led a team to a playoff-appearance worthy season and exceeded everyone's expectations.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 04:06 PM
What's the point? It's all hypothetical. One team won the Superbowl last year. Not Roethlisberger, not Brady, not Rivers, not Schaub, not Palmer, not Rodgers, not Favre, not either Manning, etc.

One team won it. Only one. By your logic (a 2009 SB win) I could place Cassel with all of those QBs listed above. I'm not that naive.

What you can judge Cassel by is what he's already done. Fact is, he's led a team to a playoff-appearance worthy season and exceeded everyone's expectations.

What a fucking coward.

You're built-in excuse is that he has no talent to help, and you can't even make a claim that he could win a playoff game on a talented team.

You have no problem talking in hypotheticals - "He'll be better when he's surrounded by more talent" - yet you can't bring yourself to say he's capable of winning a championship in a hypothetical situation.

I'm gift-wrapping a scenario for you to say "Matt Cassel could win a Super Bowl under these conditions," and you can't do it.

That's our "Franchise QB," folks.

Pathetisad.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 04:08 PM
What a fucking coward.

You're built-in excuse is that he has no talent to help, and you can't even make a claim that he could win a playoff game on a talented team.

I'm gift-wrapping a scenario for you to say "Matt Cassel could win a Super Bowl under these conditions," and you can't do it.

Pathetisad.

It's a loaded question. I can't answer it. You know I can't answer it. Nobody could realistically answer it. I don't understand what point you're trying to prove.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 04:11 PM
It's a loaded question. I can't answer it. You know I can't answer it. Nobody could realistically answer it. I don't understand what point you're trying to prove.

It's not a loaded question at all, and is very easy to answer.

Here, I'll do it.

Put Cassel on any of the 2009 playoff teams, and I don't think any of them win a single playoff game.

You can answer it, you're choosing not too, because you're going to look retarded either way.

If you answer yes, you're going to get laughed at even more than you already are, and if you say no, your entire argument is flushed down the toilet.

That's what you get for defending a shitty QB.

Sweet Daddy Hate
02-16-2010, 04:13 PM
It's not a simple yes or no answer.

Can Jamaal Charles rush for 2000 yards? Yes or no.

Can Brandon Flowers get 10 INTs? Yes or no.

There are a lot of variables at play. Obviously he could not do that with the team that we have right now, no. No quarterback could. It's a loaded question.

God Damn You; there's a huge difference between consistent flashes of legitimacy versus a burning question mark for high $$$ in the case of Cassel.

Please, for the love of all that is Holy; wake up or shut up. Please.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 04:13 PM
It's not a loaded question at all, and is very easy to answer.

Here, I'll do it.

Put Cassel on any of the 2009 playoff teams, and I don't think any of them win a single playoff game.

You can answer it, you're choosing not too, because you're going to look retarded either way.

If you answer yes, you're going to get laughed at even more than you already are, and if you say no, your entire argument is flushed down the toilet.

That's what you get for defending a shitty QB.

I'm trying to have a conversation about the guy. You're trying to turn it into a pissing contest, all the while completely ignoring what I'm saying. This is pointless.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 04:14 PM
I'm trying to have a conversation about the guy. You're trying to turn it into a pissing contest, all the while completely ignoring what I'm saying. This is pointless.

I'M ignoring YOU?

That's fucking gold, Jerry.

Don't say stupid shit, then back away from defending it.

Class dismissed.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 04:16 PM
I'M ignoring YOU?

That's fucking gold, Jerry.

Don't say stupid shit, then back away from defending it.

Class dismissed.

What was his record with New England?

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 04:18 PM
What was his record with New England?

11-5.

Did he win a playoff game?

A Super Bowl?

That IS the goal, isn't it?

Here, I'll do you ANOTHER favor.

Let's say that 2008 NE team made the playoffs.

In YOUR opinion, at Matt Cassel's PEAK, could he win the Super Bowl with that team?

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 04:19 PM
11-5.

Did he win a playoff game?

A Super Bowl?

Here, I'll do you ANOTHER favor.

Let's say that 2008 NE team made the playoffs.

In YOUR opinion, at Matt Cassel's PEAK, could he win the Super Bowl with that team?

No. Tom Brady couldn't win a Super Bowl with a better version of that team the year before.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 04:21 PM
No. Tom Brady couldn't win a Super Bowl with a better version of that team the year before.

You're really going to knock a guy that has THREE rings to make Cassel look better?

ROFL

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 04:23 PM
You're really going to knock a guy that has THREE rings to make Cassel look better?

ROFL

No, my point is that if Tom Brady couldn't do it, why would you expect Cassel to do it?

Did Matt Cassel insult a family member of yours or something? I don't understand why people want him to fail.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 04:30 PM
No, my point is that if Tom Brady couldn't do it, why would you expect Cassel to do it?

Did Matt Cassel insult a family member of yours or something? I don't understand why people want him to fail.

I don't want him to fail, dipshit.

I hope that the guy has us all fooled.

Then again, I hope I win the lottery and record a hole-in-one on the same day as well.

Christ, put the guy on any team IN HISTORY.

I still don't think he has what it takes to win a championship.

You don't either, which is why you keep deflecting.

MoreLemonPledge
02-16-2010, 04:36 PM
He could win a Superbowl with the right team. Absolutely he could. Most NFL QBs could. The better question is if that team will be built for him, because there's no way in hell he could do it on his own. There's your answer. Take it or leave it, because this whole thread has become a pissing match between you and me, and frankly it's a bit embarrassing.

I respect you and your opinions, so if you want to chalk this up as a victory, feel free.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 04:38 PM
He could win a Superbowl with the right team. Absolutely he could. Most NFL QBs could. The better question is if that team will be built for him, because there's no way in hell he could do it on his own. There's your answer. Take it or leave it, because this whole thread has become a pissing match between you and me, and frankly it's a bit embarrassing.

I respect you and your opinions, so if you want to chalk this up as a victory, feel free.

So he's not a franchise QB.

Got it.

Should have just said that to begin with.

BossChief
02-16-2010, 04:41 PM
Its threads like these that really tell where certain posters "bar" is set.

Some expect a Joe Montana and some are ok with having a Trent Green.

The point is that by watching Matt Cassel play last year under the worst of conditions, shows he isnt the type of quarterback that wins superbowls.

He simply didnt make the team better. His play lowered to the level of the team and even below it. A franchise qb raises the level of play of those around him. That never happened for Cassel.

If the goal is to win a superbowl, in a best case scenario for us with Cassel, we will have a much smaller window of opportunity to realistically do so than with a rookie because of his advanced age and low level of development.

I am part of the group that thinks he can get a lot better, and will the more he becomes comfortable with his protection and targets, but may never be worth the investment in money and passing on other options at the position.

Matt Cassel can develop into a guy that is a playoff qb, but I can't see him as a winning one.

BossChief
02-16-2010, 04:50 PM
The one BIG strength that is uncoachable and no matter who wants to discredit it is how he plays late in the fourth quarter. From what I saw (and yes some of it was garbage time, but not all) he seemed to have a "light" come on at around the four minute left mark of most games.

Hopefully that translates when he develops the rest of his game and it is the difference between us winning and losing playoff games.

time will tell

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 04:50 PM
Its threads like these that really tell where certain posters "bar" is set.

Some expect a Joe Montana and some are ok with having a Trent Green.

The point is that by watching Matt Cassel play last year under the worst of conditions, shows he isnt the type of quarterback that wins superbowls.

He simply didnt make the team better. His play lowered to the level of the team and even below it. A franchise qb raises the level of play of those around him. That never happened for Cassel.

If the goal is to win a superbowl, in a best case scenario for us with Cassel, we will have a much smaller window of opportunity to realistically do so than with a rookie because of his advanced age and low level of development.

Couldn't agree more.


I am part of the group that thinks he can get a lot better, and will the more he becomes comfortable with his protection and targets, but may never be worth the investment in money and passing on other options at the position.

He pretty much has to get better, at least statistically. But that still doesn't magically make him capable of putting a team on his back, making the players around him better and winning a SB.

People here see stats and think that's all it takes. You'll still find people that think Trent Green was capable of winning a SB. Personally, when someone asks me about clutch QB's, Green is never on the radar.

Matt Cassel can develop into a guy that is a playoff qb, but I can see him as a winning one.

Should that read "...but I can see him as a winning one."?

BossChief
02-16-2010, 04:54 PM
Should that read "...but I can see him as a winning one."?

I missed a 's in there. I fixed it before you quoted.

LaChapelle
02-16-2010, 05:08 PM
I assume the hash got nuked again
and skip reading this thread

The Bad Guy
02-16-2010, 05:14 PM
The sad thing is, I think a ton of you have already determined he is going to be forever awful and regardless of what he does, sans Superbowl, he's never going to get any credit for anything.

Finishing 11-5 even with a high-powered team is an impressive thing when you haven't started a game since high school. I don't care who he had to throw to. You can't just put anyone back there and they are going to throw over 20 touchdowns and win 11 games.

Now with that said, I don't think he's very good, but I'm willing to give him another year with a offensive coordinator, who I view as an elite coordinator and will just have to focus on the offense, and an entire off-season and training camp with just one playbook, before I sell him up the river without a fucking paddle.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 05:22 PM
The sad thing is, I think a ton of you have already determined he is going to be forever awful and regardless of what he does, sans Superbowl, he's never going to get any credit for anything.

Winning the Super Bowl is the goal, isn't it?

If you don't think he's capable, what else matters?

Do you personally think he's capable of even being a playoff winner?

Do you ever see him being a Brees/Manning/Roethlisberger/Rivers-type QB?

Brock
02-16-2010, 05:25 PM
With the same starting experience and even less experience in the offensive system. He's still got the same tread on the tires. He's a QB, not a RB. He could realistically play at a high level for 10 more years.

Great, when will that start?

Mr. Flopnuts
02-16-2010, 05:28 PM
The sad thing is, I think a ton of you have already determined he is going to be forever awful and regardless of what he does, sans Superbowl, he's never going to get any credit for anything.

Finishing 11-5 even with a high-powered team is an impressive thing when you haven't started a game since high school. I don't care who he had to throw to. You can't just put anyone back there and they are going to throw over 20 touchdowns and win 11 games.

Now with that said, I don't think he's very good, but I'm willing to give him another year with a offensive coordinator, who I view as an elite coordinator and will just have to focus on the offense, and an entire off-season and training camp with just one playbook, before I sell him up the river without a fucking paddle.

Watching Sanchez' rookie year has been a bitter pill for those that wanted him from the very beginning. Particularly those that were so adamant against the Cassel trade under any circumstances.

That said, I agree with you. Water long under the bridge, and it's time to move on. There have been teams that have won Super Bowls with less than stellar quarterbacks in the past. Unfortunately none of those teams paid those guys the way Matt is getting paid, but regardless I still think that with an elite coordinator he has the ability to get better.

I'm not going to talk the guy up like I think he's worth a shit because I don't. At the same point, I'm not going to beat it into the ground. I'm not changing teams, so I support whoever we've got.

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 05:29 PM
Great, when will that start?

LMAO

The Bad Guy
02-16-2010, 05:31 PM
Winning the Super Bowl is the goal, isn't it?

If you don't think he's capable, what else matters?

Do you personally think he's capable of even being a playoff winner?

Do you ever see him being a Brees/Manning/Roethlisberger/Rivers-type QB?

You can't win a Super Bowl without winning in the playoffs in 16 years. I want to dream as big as anyone, but this team isn't close to Super Bowl caliber.

I think he is capable of winning a playoff game. I think there are tons of QBs capable of winning playoff games. Rex Grossman won 2 playoff games to make it to the Super Bowl.

No, I don't see him like them. If they are the benchmark, he's going to fall short everytime.

As I said, I'm giving him a chance this year. I just think there are quite a few who would rather go full Reerun V. Herm about him.

MahiMike
02-16-2010, 05:32 PM
Cassel for Quinn straight up. Do it Carl!

ROFL

OnTheWarpath58
02-16-2010, 05:33 PM
No, I don't see him like them. If they are the benchmark, he's going to fall short everytime.

Noted.

Reerun_KC
02-16-2010, 08:36 PM
You can't win a Super Bowl without winning in the playoffs in 16 years. I want to dream as big as anyone, but this team isn't close to Super Bowl caliber.

I think he is capable of winning a playoff game. I think there are tons of QBs capable of winning playoff games. Rex Grossman won 2 playoff games to make it to the Super Bowl.

No, I don't see him like them. If they are the benchmark, he's going to fall short everytime.

As I said, I'm giving him a chance this year. I just think there are quite a few who would rather go full Reerun V. Herm about him.

:harumph:

Why me?

Von Dumbass
02-16-2010, 08:39 PM
God bless Josh McDaniels without him none of this would be possible ROFL

Von Dumbass
02-16-2010, 08:41 PM
Man thats some saddening news. Glad its an uncapped year.

That really is meaningless. Do you think the Chiefs will spend more money than they did last year? I don't.

RustShack
02-16-2010, 08:43 PM
Lets trade Cassel for Marshall then trade for Quinn assuming Clausen is gone at five.

Mecca
02-16-2010, 08:44 PM
God bless Josh McDaniels without him none of this would be possible ROFL

You're team is fucked too, so you have nothing to laugh about.

The Bad Guy
02-16-2010, 08:46 PM
God bless Josh McDaniels without him none of this would be possible ROFL

2-8. 2-8. 2-8. 2-8.

What's more funny is how bulletproof you think Napoleon McDaniels is.

Does it suck being a douchebag every day of your life?

The Bad Guy
02-16-2010, 08:48 PM
You're team is ****ed too, so you have nothing to laugh about.

I would argue his team is far more fucked than the Chiefs.

-The best player wants out. I'm sure douche will post a twitter comment from Marshall how he loves Denver, yadda, yadda yadda. That offense, without Brandon Marshall is in the bottom half of the league.
-Aging secondary, absolutely nothing on the DL.
-Andra Davis was exposed in the 2nd half of last year, Ayers was terrible, Haggan is old. DJ Williams is one of the most overrated players in the NFL.

It will be the cherry on top when they pay Orton.

The Bad Guy
02-16-2010, 08:49 PM
That really is meaningless. Do you think the Chiefs will spend more money than they did last year? I don't.

Well then I'm sure Clark is lining up the Brinx truck then if you think the opposite.

Not one of your football takes is logical. Not fucking one. It's hilarious how wrong you constantly are.

Mecca
02-16-2010, 08:49 PM
If they really pay Orton and we stick with Cassel we are just assuring San Diego as a division winner every year for years to come.

michaelj_58
02-19-2010, 02:51 PM
i agree with you,what do you think of kevin faulk joining the team.

michaelj_58
02-19-2010, 02:55 PM
what do you think about this

Chiefnj2
02-19-2010, 03:02 PM
There are bizarre salary issues around the NFL.

Who was the highest paid DT last year in the NFL?

Wrong, it wasn't Haynesworth, it was our very own Glenn Dorsey with 13 mil.

Vernon Gholston made more money than Jared Allen last year (9.1 mil v. 7.7 mil).

There were 15 safeties who made more money than Ed Reed. The Dolphins had the 2nd and 3rd highest paid safeties.