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Donger
02-18-2010, 04:13 PM
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100218/D9DUO7L00.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - The White House and congressional leaders are preparing a detailed health care proposal designed to win passage without Republican support if GOP lawmakers fail to embrace bipartisan compromises at President Barack Obama's summit next week.

A senior White House official said Thursday that Democratic negotiators are resolving final differences in House and Senate health bills that passed last year with virtually no Republican help. The White House plans to post the proposals online by Monday morning, three days ahead of the Feb. 25 summit, which GOP leaders are approaching warily.

The comments signal that Obama and Congress' Democratic leaders still plan to use assertive and sometimes controversial parliamentary powers to enact a far-reaching health care bill if no GOP lawmakers get on board. Republicans and conservative activists have denounced such a strategy, and it's unclear whether enough House and Senate Democrats would back it. Both parties have used the strategy, known as reconciliation, in the past.

Obama says he is open to Republican ideas for changing the health care legislation. But many Democrats seriously doubt GOP leaders will support compromises that could draw enough lawmakers from both parties to create a bipartisan majority.

The negotiations, led by Democratic leaders with White House input, are meant to determine what changes must be made to the Senate-passed bill for House Democrats to accept it, the administration official said. The goal is to craft a reconciled measure that Senate Democrats can pass, under rules barring GOP filibusters, unless Republicans offer acceptable changes at next week's summit.

Democrats lost their ability to block filibusters when Massachusetts Republican Scott Brown won a Senate seat last month.

The White House official spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss private negotiations.

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said Thursday that Obama plans to have a health care proposal that "will take some of the best ideas and put them into a framework" ahead of the Feb. 25 summit.

House Democrats insist on several changes to the bill the Senate passed on Christmas Eve. They include reducing or eliminating a proposed tax on generous employer-provider health plans, and eliminating a Medicaid subsidy aimed only at Nebraska.

Overall, the Democratic plans would provide health insurance to more than 30 million people now uninsured and end the industry practice of denying coverage to those with medical problems. Most Americans would be required to carry health coverage, with new government subsidies available to reduce the cost for many.

The main beneficiaries would be small businesses and people who now buy their own insurance. They now have few choices, and premium prices can spike unpredictably from year to year.

Under the Democrats' legislation, they would be able to pick a plan in a new insurance marketplace offering a range of choices similar to those available to federal employees.

The cost of the legislation - about $1 trillion over 10 years - would be paid for through Medicare cuts and a series of tax increases. In the short run, the nation would spend more on health care under the Democratic plans, since newly covered people would be able to get care they had previously put off. Over time, however, the rate of increase in medical costs would begin to slow.

orange
02-18-2010, 04:31 PM
Democrats acting like an actual political party? Pinch me.

Donger
02-18-2010, 04:36 PM
Democrats acting like an actual political party? Pinch me.

I really hope they use reconciliation.

Saul Good
02-18-2010, 05:04 PM
Reconciliation would be the death of the Democrat party.

On another note, I love how their offer is for Republicans to be "bipartisan" or the Democrats will do it on their own.

"We're doing this with our without you. Either tell us that it's a great plan, or we'll do it anyway and complain that you weren't being bipartisan."

mlyonsd
02-18-2010, 05:43 PM
Dems rock. No matter how many times you pull the gun out of their mouth they keep sticking it back in.

Brock
02-18-2010, 05:44 PM
Nothing is going to happen. Nothing.

HonestChieffan
02-18-2010, 05:44 PM
Claire should be buried in mail and phone calls

BigRedChief
02-18-2010, 07:01 PM
Reconciliation would be the death of the Democrat party.Thats what they said would happen to Bush if he used reconciliation and rammed through his unfunded $1.1 trillion tax cuts. permitted the drilling of oil near federal parks. The public has a short memory.

The Dems have no choice, they have to pass something. I think this is a bluff anyway to get the Republicans to give something at the conference.

mlyonsd
02-18-2010, 07:09 PM
I think this is a bluff anyway to get the Republicans to give something at the conference.

:spock: Brilliant tactic.

BigRedChief
02-19-2010, 07:18 AM
:spock: Brilliant tactic.I didn't say it was brilliant or that I agreed with the tactic. Just it is what it is. Maybe...

notorious
02-19-2010, 07:34 AM
My perception is that the American public was starting to forget already. Everybody was excited about the "victory" in Mass, so they have let their guard down a little bit.


Jamming this through against the will of the people for a second time is about as smart as touching an electric fence over and over again.


It won't kill the democratic party, but it will set it back ala Herm Edwards style.

BigRedChief
02-19-2010, 07:38 AM
Jamming this through against the will of the people for a second time is about as smart as touching an electric fence over and over again.I don't think so. The american public was against the current versions of the health care bills.

They are for health care reform. Look at the rates the insurance compaines have announced or will announce soon. People always vote with their pocket books.

And even though I'm personally against it most polls I see say the majority want a public option.

notorious
02-19-2010, 09:53 AM
I don't think so. The american public was against the current versions of the health care bills.

They are for health care reform. Look at the rates the insurance compaines have announced or will announce soon. People always vote with their pocket books.

And even though I'm personally against it most polls I see say the majority want a public option.


I havn't kept up with this as well as I should have for the past month.


Here are a few questions I have:


Is Nebraska, Louisana, etc. still getting their bribe money?

Will it still be mandatory insurance? If I decide that I do not want it (31 years old, perfect health, but already covered through wife's carrier), do I have to pay? If so, do I face fines or jail time?

I am not being sarcastic. I am curious if the original problems I had with the bill are still in it.

Thank You.

KC Dan
02-19-2010, 09:57 AM
I havn't kept up with this as well as I should have for the past month.


Here are a few questions I have:


Is Nebraska, Louisana, etc. still getting their bribe money?

Will it still be mandatory insurance? If I decide that I do not want it (31 years old, perfect health, but already covered through wife's carrier), do I have to pay? If so, do I face fines or jail time?

I am not being sarcastic. I am curious if the original problems I had with the bill are still in it.

Thank You.
This government has been transformed into the transparent being that we were promised during the election and YOU don't know what's in the bill?????


Don't worry, no one but pelosi, reid, obama and emanuelle know what is in it. I'm sure it is just peachy for all us (as Bill Maher put it) stupid people.

HonestChieffan
02-19-2010, 10:03 AM
I havn't kept up with this as well as I should have for the past month.


Here are a few questions I have:


Is Nebraska, Louisana, etc. still getting their bribe money?

Will it still be mandatory insurance? If I decide that I do not want it (31 years old, perfect health, but already covered through wife's carrier), do I have to pay? If so, do I face fines or jail time?

I am not being sarcastic. I am curious if the original problems I had with the bill are still in it.

Thank You.


As of now, yes the special deals are in tact in the Senate version. No one has a clue what the new version from the House/Senate confab will look like because its a secret.

In both versions it is mandated. You will be forced to buy or pay a penalty if not covered. In your case you are covered. But if you were not under her plan, yes you would be forced to.

notorious
02-19-2010, 10:05 AM
This government has been transformed into the transparent being that we were promised during the election and YOU don't know what's in the bill?????


Don't worry, no one but pelosi, reid, obama and emanuelle know what is in it. I'm sure it is just peachy for all us (as Bill Maher put it) stupid people.


I listen to talk radio from both sides every day (Sirius Stiletto kicks ass), and I have yet to hear of anything that has been changed.

What scares me is the thought that they will just plug in whatever the hell they want to after they pass the original bill.

The "Public Option" thing scares me too. The Government can offer a price that is so unbelievably cheap that the private sector won't be able to compete. They go out of business and all of the sudden we only have ONE option.

Just my opinion.

notorious
02-19-2010, 10:07 AM
new version from the House/Senate confab will look like because its a secret.

In both versions it is mandated. You will be forced to buy or pay a penalty if not covered. In your case you are covered. But if you were not under her plan, yes you would be forced to.

There is my answer. Thank you.


The mandatory pay is absolute BULLSHIT. I should be able to choose if I want to spend money on my healthcare.

BigRedChief
02-19-2010, 10:30 AM
There is my answer. Thank you.


The mandatory pay is absolute BULLSHIT. I should be able to choose if I want to spend money on my healthcare.Except that is BS. Don't listen to the right wing propaganda.

If and thats a big if....something passes it will not look like the same as when it left the Senate.

HonestChieffan
02-19-2010, 10:33 AM
Except that is BS. Don't listen to the right wing propaganda.

If and thats a big if....something passes it will not look like the same as when it left the Senate.

BRC, you somedays are simply out in another zone. Nothing I said was BS. None of what I said is propoganda. The chap asked a polite question and I answered it.

BigRedChief
02-19-2010, 10:35 AM
BRC, you somedays are simply out in another zone. Nothing I said was BS. None of what I said is propoganda. The chap asked a polite question and I answered it.BS. there is no mandated health care going to make it to the Presidents desk. Thats just BS scare tactics.

notorious
02-19-2010, 10:39 AM
BS. there is no mandated health care going to make it to the Presidents desk. Thats just BS scare tactics.


Whoops, you just answered my question. Thanks man.


If it is not mandated, how will it be funded?

The rich will pay out of pocket, so there won't be any tax revenue there. The middle class will probably jump all over the cheap rates. The poor will get their coverage one way or another.

Where does that leave the current health insurance companies aka the "private option"?

BigRedChief
02-19-2010, 10:41 AM
Whoops, you just answered my question. Thanks man.


If it is not mandated, how will it be funded?
It's all up in the air. There had been talk of a mandate but there is zero support for that now.

HonestChieffan
02-19-2010, 10:45 AM
It is in both bills that are public. I guess BRC has a source on Pelosi's staff that is feeding him insider info.

notorious
02-19-2010, 10:46 AM
It's all up in the air. There had been talk of a mandate but there is zero support for that now.

Cool. Thanks to both of you for giving me your honest opinions and feedback without getting defensive.


This is how I see things: It won't be as great or as bad as it sounds.


Damn, almost forgot an important question: If a person is fat, smokes, and treats his body like shit, are his rates going to be the same as mine?

HonestChieffan
02-19-2010, 10:48 AM
Cool. Thanks to both of you for giving me your honest opinions and feedback without getting defensive.


This is how I see things: It won't be as great or as bad as it sounds.

I applaud your positve view. I certainly dont share it. These people cannot be trusted.

notorious
02-19-2010, 10:58 AM
These people cannot be trusted.


None of them can be trusted. I am always a glass is half-empty guy when it comes to politicians (probably because they can't seem to do anything correctly). In life, expect and prepare for the worst and hope for the best.


My positive view comes from looking back at my short experience in political history. The US was going to crumble when Clinton was elected, Bush was an idiot that would run the country into the ground, and Obama is a communist/socialist/liberal that is hell-bent on controling every aspect of peoples lives.


It never turns out as bad as people say. But I am not stupid enough to believe that bad things won't happen.

I am pretty much a small government, sink or swim kind of guy that wants our disabled and children taken care of. If you are an adult, take care of yourself, don't look to the government or me to take care of you.

Chief Henry
02-19-2010, 11:03 AM
Democrats acting like an actual political party? Pinch me.

Socialism is good :rolleyes:

Chief Henry
02-19-2010, 11:06 AM
Except that is BS. Don't listen to the right wing propaganda.

If and thats a big if....something passes it will not look like the same as when it left the Senate.

But by all means listen to the left wing propaganda !!!

BigRedChief
02-19-2010, 11:08 AM
But by all means listen to the left wing propaganda !!!No, just wait until there is a bill to vote on, then decide based on the merits of the bill.

Royal Fanatic
02-19-2010, 11:21 AM
No, just wait until there is a bill to vote on, then decide based on the merits of the bill.
How can they do that if they don't even read the bill?

Norman Einstein
02-19-2010, 11:30 AM
Thats what they said would happen to Bush if he used reconciliation and rammed through his unfunded $1.1 trillion tax cuts. permitted the drilling of oil near federal parks. The public has a short memory.

The Dems have no choice, they have to pass something. I think this is a bluff anyway to get the Republicans to give something at the conference.

I'd prefer they just passed gas, maybe that will clear their head a bit.

Passing a shitty bill only leaves us with shitty laws and in this case a shitty approach to health care reform.

Norman Einstein
02-19-2010, 11:35 AM
Except that is BS. Don't listen to the right wing propaganda.

If and thats a big if....something passes it will not look like the same as when it left the Senate.

Please prove proof that it is BS. I read the original bill and it was included in that one. I have not read the 2017 page bill, nor do I intend to lose another portion of my life reading a BS bill.

If anything passes without the republican buy in you can bet that it will not be a good bill and anything but reform for health care.

Norman Einstein
02-19-2010, 11:36 AM
BS. there is no mandated health care going to make it to the Presidents desk. Thats just BS scare tactics.

Once again I want you to point out in the current bill that debunks the manditory requirement for everyone to enroll in the programm, other than those with credible insurance.

Norman Einstein
02-19-2010, 11:39 AM
No, just wait until there is a bill to vote on, then decide based on the merits of the bill.

The odds are that we will not see one word of the bill until it's passed, and then it will be too late.
And you can bet your last dollar that Obama will sign it within hours of it being rammed through. The speed at which he signs will tell you how shitty of a plan it is.