Combine Winners and Losers

['Hamas' Jenkins]

These are my opinions, but obviously borrowed from the research of others

Winners:

OL:

Russell Okung. Showed very good athleticism, ideal size, and good strength. Solidified himself as the consensus #1 tackle according to scouts (even if I think he's not).

Bruce Campbell. Absolute fucking freak. Same size as Okung, even more athletic. Dominated the drills

Trent Williams. May end up being Jamaal Brown. Far more athletic than previously thought

Roger Saffold. Could be this year's Branden Albert--a G prospect who transitions to T. That said, with his frame, I think he's an ideal RT for a team that passes a lot. If I'm NO, I look at him as a replacement for Stinchcomb at the bottom of Round 2.


DL: Ndamukong Suh. Showed up, did everything, and did it well. Showed he wasn't afraid to compete. Separated himself from McCoy, as he was his equal in agility drills and speed, and showed that he also has as much explosion with more upper body strength.

Jason Pierre Paul. Lack of production is alarming, but his potential isn't. Mayock compared him to Jevon Kearse. His upside is probably Mario Williams.

Lemarr Houston. Beasted the drills. Looks like a great 3 technique prospect.

Everson Griffen. Tremendous measureables combined with solid production. With his speed, he could be a 4-3 RDE or a ROLB in a 3-4. Probably a mid-20s guy who a lot of teams are going to regret passing on. Atlanta needs to have him targeted

Linval Joseph. He's going to skyrocket. He can play NT in a 4-3, NT in a 3-4, or 5 technique. Big with long arms (34 1/2"). I wouldn't mind the Chiefs taking him with their 3rd rounder.

Torrell Troup. Did well in agility drills, ran well, and showed good strength. Long arms, can put on another 25 pounds and anchor a 3-4.


LB:

Sean Weatherspoon. GODMODE.

Darryl Washington. Ran really well and killed the drills. Probably limited to a 4-3 Will backer.

Jamar Chaney. Absolutely dominated the physical part of the combine. Dominated. He has the size to be a 3-4 Mike, but his speed will make him far more valuable to a 4-3 team. He's probably a mid 2nd round pick at worst right now. His athleticism is the definition of sideline to sideline.

DB:

Taylor Mays. Killed the 40 and showed enough agility in the drills to quell concerns about his hip fluidity.

Eric Berry. Performed beyond expectations. Measured bigger, and had an amazing vertical jump (43"). Showed good speed as well. He is Ed Reed.


QB:

None. Jarrett Brown showed speed and arm strength, but his accuracy was poor. Sam Bradford showed he could put on 25 pounds while using steroids.

WR:

Jacoby Ford. Moved himself up into the 3rd round with his 40 time alone

Golden Tate. Looks like an ideal slot receiver w/ his combination of quickness and speed.

Scott Long. Warriored the Workout, but he's never done anything on the field. Got buzz, though.


RB: Ryan Matthews. The #1 pure RB in this class w/o question.

Jahvid Best. Outran Spiller and showed really good agility in the cone drills. Surprising size @ 200 lbs. Could be Jamaal Charlesesque.

Ben Tate. Looks like a really good mid-round option


TE: Clay Harbor. Performed like he was created in a lab. Small school prospect with all the tools.

Jimmy Graham. Absolutely amazing combine and ungodly size. He's a matchup nightmare.


Losers:

QB: Cart McCoy. His shoulder injury, which would be healed w/in "days" then became "two weeks" and now it's been nearly two months and he still won't throw. He also measured 2 inches shorter than his listed height. He's a fucking bum. Well, bums have heart...

Dan LeFevour. Absolutely idiotic decision not to throw. Killed himself in the eyes of scouts.


WR: Brandon Lafell. Poor time combined with a blah season. He's probably a late 2nd at best now. Really small hands for a WR (8 3/4")

Dez Bryant. Reportedly bombed the interviews. Came off as irresponsible, and didn't run to protect his inflated stock.

Mike Williams. Awful results, even worse interviews. May not be drafted

RB: Jonathan Dwyer. Looked doughy and did not perform well. Combined with the weird system he came from, he's looking like the 3rd rounder I said he was.

TE: Rob Gronkowski. Came off as a pussy shit bitch by declaring himself 100% but not participating in anything when he hasn't played in a year.


OL: Anthony Davis. Poor physical measureables for a guy with a host of other concerns is not good.

Ciron Black. May not be draftable after his abortion of a performance.


DE: Greg Hardy. No one hurt his stock more this season than Hardy. He'll be off the boards of several teams completely and he shows a complete lack of passion for the game. He also can't stop gorging his fat ass.

George Selvie. An awful performance capping off two shit awful years at USF. He's a late round player now.

Carlos Dunlap. Awful interviews combined with huge character concerns and a lack of production make him Michael Johnson part 2.

DT: None. McCoy, who didn't have a great combine, still did well enough, but may have solidified himself as the #2 rather than putting himself in the argument with Suh

LB: Brandon Spikes. Wouldn't run but did all the other drills, on which he completely embarrassed himself. Lacks explosion (29" vertical is pathetic) and speed (wouldn't run). He's strictly a 2 down player and probably a 3rd rounder at best. Could go as late as the fifth.

Micah Johnson. You could time him with a sundial. May end up being this year's Danell Ellerbe, though. He and Spikes could both be role players, but won't ever be anything more.

Rolando McClain. Invented an injury to prevent from exposing himself, just like Bryant.

DB. Myron Rolle. Great story, but he's not an NFL player. Too slow, too stiff.

Joe Haden. Ran in the Malcolm Jenkins territory without the size. He's probably a 12-15 pick right now

[Frosty]

I thought Montario Hardesty helped himself a lot, especially with his 40, considering his size.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/354378-2010-nfl-combine-montario-hardestys-draft-stock-on-the-rise

[Titty Meat]

No mention of CJ Spiller?

[Saccopoo]

Winners:

TE:
Dorin Dickerson, Pitt: Ran a faster 40 time than all but one of all the wide receivers at the combine. The second highest vertical of the entire combine. Was near the top in most of the drills. The new Kris Wilson.

Dennis Pitta, BYU: Absolutely annihilated the TE group in agility drills. Stronger than expected. Looked very fluid and natural in every drill/test.

OL:
Marshall Newhouse, TCU: Showed remarkable agility and athleticism. Helped himself a ton for teams looking for agile, pulling guards in schemes like the zone blocking that the Chiefs run.

Jared Veldheer, Hillsdale: Was at the top of nearly every drill for his position group. While he didn't face the level of competition of the other OL combine invites, he proved he was one of, if not the, most athletic of all of them. Top performing offensive line prospect at the combine. Considering the athletic prowess he display at his size (6'8", 315 lbs.), he'll rocket up the charts.

RB:
Montario Hardesty, Tennessee: Incredible combine, outperforming nearly everyone in his group. Near the top of every drill.

Toby Gerhardt, Stanford: Displayed a huge amount of athleticism and agility. The two "big backs" in Toby and Montario outdid most of the smaller, "speedy" backs in the vast majority of drills.

Joique Bell, Wayne State: Right near the top in every drill. Like Veldheer, he showed he belonged with the D1 guys and could outperform them.

WR:
Blair White, Michigan State: Tore it up in the majority of position drills, and was particularly effective in the cone and shuttle drills.

Chris McGaha, Arizona: Other than pulling a Brandon Spikes and not running in the 40, he was superlative in all the other drills.

Scott Long, Louisville: Owned the combine in his group finishing near the top in every drill.

DL:
Jerry Hughes, TCU: Showed the speed and burst at the combine that he did throughout his career on the field as well as excellent agility (first in the 20 yard shuttle in his group).

Everson Griffin, USC: Tore it up. If his on-field production was consistent, he'd be the top edge rusher in the draft.

Torrell Troup, Central Florida: Look surprisingly athletic and lean for as big as he's listed (6'3", 314 lbs.). Pretty smooth in all the drills.

LB:
Josh Hull, Penn State: Was the top performer in the 20 and 60 yard shuttle and was near the top in most other drills. Thoroughly outperformed his more highly regarded teammates Sean Lee and Novarro Bowman. Big enough and athletic enough to play inside in either scheme.

Dekoda Watson, Florida State: Like Hull, was near the top of every drill, showing excellent speed, agility and burst. Exact same size as Weatherspoon, and has played inside and outside during his career.

DB:
Brandon Ghee, Wake Forest: Owned the cornerback group at the combine.

Eric Berry, Tennessee: Yep, he's the best safety in the draft, and put down on paper what everyone knew - that he's insanely athletic. A freak.

QB:
Tim Tebow, Florida: Didn't throw, but neither did any of the other top quarterbacks. But destroyed the rest of the combine showing his amazing athleticism. Tied a record for the highest vertical by a QB. Was first in four of the drills by a wide margin. Was said to have the best team interviews in memory.

Jarrett Brown, West Virgina: Most likely moved ahead of a lot of other quarterbacks in the draft that were being considered in the mid-rounds by participating fully and doing very well in all the drills.

Losers:
Biggest: Tie.

Rob Gronkowski, TE; Arizona: Was cleared medically to participate and was considered at the top of the TE class, but didn't do any drills. In an insanely deep TE class that is over-loaded with talent, I wouldn't even consider a guy with a back injury and who is scared to run drills against other guys in his position.

Rolando McClain, MLB; Alabama: WTF? Maybe the injury was real, but there were reports that he wasn't going to do the drills before the "injury" popped up. Shades of Andre Smith. What is with these Alabama guys?

Mike Williams, Syracuse: So much for his athleticism. I guess he'll have to fall back on his solid character and work ethic...

[BWillie]

I guess Dezmon Briscoe only put up 225 lbs 9 times. Ha. I'm stronger than him.

[Reaper16]

Joique Bell played for Wayne State, not Central Michigan.

[Saccopoo]

Joique Bell played for Wayne State, not Central Michigan.

Whoops. You are correct sir. I will correct that immediately.

[kepp]

I've heard a couple analysts say that Javon Snead helped himself - showed great arm strength and good accuracy. Didn't see any of his workouts myself though.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Haden is really looking like dog shit out there.

[KCChiefsMan]

I guess Dezmon Briscoe only put up 225 lbs 9 times. Ha. I'm stronger than him.

long arms

[the Talking Can]

Combine winners: guys who performed well

combine losers: guys who didn't perform well




just snark...no one blow a gasket

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

ive always loved the cart mccoy nickname

god bless you, michael bennett and kellen heard

[googlegoogle]

News. Some had him projected for us.

OL: Anthony Davis. Poor physical measureables for a guy with a host of other concerns is not good.

[Ralphy Boy]

Winners:
TE: Clay Harbor. Performed like he was created in a lab. Small school prospect with all the tools.


I've been saying for weeks that I want him on our team.

[Mecca]

Davis is still really gifted, if he does fall into the 20's he'll be a great value pick.

[HC_Chief]

Eric Berry. Performed beyond expectations. Measured bigger, and had an amazing vertical jump (43"). Showed good speed as well. He is Ed Reed.

:eek:
Sold. I was leaning towards Berry anyway.... now it's a no brainer.

[Sully]

There was some small school QB, they called him a poor man's Flacco.

I'm not a big Flacco fan, but this QB's arm was very impressive.

Can someone help me out with the name?

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

So you're saying Oakland will draft Dez Bryant.

[Mecca]

Bryant is not in the Oakland frame of WR's, Oakland tends to take guys with huge upside, right now I'm going with JPP as that pick.

[HC_Chief]

So you're saying Oakland will draft Dez Bryant.

chOakland drafts based on 40 time. Dez didn't run.

[Ralphy Boy]

There was some small school QB, they called him a poor man's Flacco.

I'm not a big Flacco fan, but this QB's arm was very impressive.

Can someone help me out with the name?

Skelton?

[Reaper16]

Some Division II tidbits: Jared Veldheer, OT, Hillsdale -- was in the top 10 of every OL test and drill. Screw Bruce Campbell, Veldheer turned in the Godmode performance by an OL. Nailed the interviews too, I hear. He's getting paid.

Preston Parker, WR, North Alabama -- ran a slower than expected 40 time. He likely took himself out of the draft altogether considering his character concerns (though his 20 yard shuttle and bench reps were top 10 amongst all WR).

Joique Bell, RB, Wayne State -- ran a slower than expected 40 time. But the drills that show quickness and explosiveness, 20 yard shuttle, the 3-cone, the standing broad, the vertical, he placed top 10, even top 5, in. He didn't hurt himself though a better 40 time at his pro day will go a long way.

Tony Washington, OT, Abeliene Christian -- performed admirably in the drills, making top 10 at OL in many of them. He helped his stock for sure. My guess, based on what I know about the player, is that he bombed interviews though.

Akwasi Owusu-Ansah, CB, Indiana (PA) -- ran a 4.47 official time in the 40 coming off of injury, 3rd amongst all CB. He's almost ensured of being a 2nd day (third round) pick in my book.

[Mecca]

Parker got kicked out of FSU...that makes him a total moron.

[KCrockaholic]

Bryant is not in the Oakland frame of WR's, Oakland tends to take guys with huge upside, right now I'm going with JPP as that pick.

JPP is a typical Oakland pick. He is going to them in my mock... Which I will post sometime tomorrow BTW

[KCrockaholic]

There was some small school QB, they called him a poor man's Flacco.

I'm not a big Flacco fan, but this QB's arm was very impressive.

Can someone help me out with the name?

Skelton?

I think he means Tony Pike? He is just like a poor mans Flacco.

[Mecca]

I do think Pierre Paul has ridiculous upside and is worthy of being a top 10 pick so that wouldn't even be a reach.

[KCrockaholic]

I do think Pierre Paul has ridiculous upside and is worthy of being a top 10 pick so that wouldn't even be a reach.

I'm not a big fan of him, I would take Kindle before him if that says anything.

[Ralphy Boy]

I think he means Tony Pike? He is just like a poor mans Flacco.

I wouldn't really consider Cincy to be a small school

[Mecca]

I'm not a big fan of him, I would take Kindle before him if that says anything.

If you're going 3-4 sure, for a 4-3 team you're better off with JPP, he has a frame to carry 300lbs and still have his speed.

[Sully]

Skelton?

Sorr. I missed this earlier.
I think his name was Skelton.
Had good size, and his ball on outs was accurate and well thrown. I really liked how he threw.

[Mr. Laz]

By Tony Pauline, Special to SI.com, TFYDraft.com (http://www.draftinsider.net/)
Posted: Tuesday March 2, 2010 4:51PM; Updated: Tuesday March 2, 2010 5:23PM

Risers & Sliders: Mays fails to impress in DB drills at NFL combine

<script>setActiveStyleSheet( CNN_FONT_COOKIE ? CNN_FONT_COOKIE : null );</script> <!--endclickprintexclude--><!--endclickprintexclude--> <table class="cnnInlineRight" style="width: 298px;" align="right" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td> <!--startclickprintexclude--> http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2010/football/nfl/03/02/combine.dbs/taylor-mays.jpg
Taylor Mays impressed in the 40-yard dash, but left much to be desired in field drills.
AP
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</td></tr></tbody></table> INDIANAPOLIS -- NFL decision makers and scouts gathered at Lucas Oil Stadium today for the final day of the 2010 NFL Scouting Combine. They were on hand to watch the 58 defensive backs who were invited to work out.

Taylor Mays' workout at the combine will be one talked about for a long time, and with good reason. After weighing in at 230 pounds, Mays completed 24 reps on the bench press, then ran a 40 that most scouts clocked at 4.32 seconds. Normally those numbers would elevate a prospect towards the top of the draft, but we contend that won't be the case with Mays.
During drills, Mays was in poor form. As fast as he was moving forwards, Mays was terribly slow moving in reverse. It was similar to his performance at the Senior Bowl in January. Mays looked uncomfortable backpedaling during drills and one scout called his defensive back fundamentals "just bad." When asked to change direction, Mays would come to a complete stop then start up again. The contrast between Mays and players such as Earl Thomas and T.J. Ward, who lost little momentum changing direction, was striking.

Poor performances in Mobile and Indianapolis do not mean Mays won't be productive in the NFL. It does mean he will be limited to certain systems that don't require him to play man coverage or make plays sideline-to-sideline. In other words Mays is likely to go later in the draft than someone with his measurables usually would.

Risers

Eric Berry/S/Tennessee: Berry impressed scouts by weighing 212 pounds and completing 19 reps on the bench. His 40 was fast ... in the high 4.3-second area. He was near flawless in drills, displaying quick and fluid footwork moving in reverse, a terrific burst to the ball and the ability to change direction on a dime without losing momentum.

Devin McCourty/CB/Rutgers: He could come away the biggest winner among defensive backs. He was super fast, timing right around 4.40 seconds, and showed strength by pushing up 16 reps on the bench. And his skills in drills were near outstanding. McCourty now enters the conversation as a late first-round pick.

Earl Thomas/S/Texas: Teams interested in drafting Thomas breathed a sigh of relief when the red-shirt sophomore stepped on the scales and weighed 208 pounds, then completed 21 reps on the bench press. This dispelled many of the myths that Thomas lacked the size and strength to play safety in the NFL. He later ran well (4.5) and looked effective in drills.

TJ Ward/S/Oregon: Ward ran reasonably well (4.55-range) but it was his work in drills that really impressed scouts. Considered more of a straight-line defender, he displayed ball skills that exceeded expectations. Ward changed direction quickly, showed the ability to move in reverse with no hesitation and looked terrific catching the ball.

Chris Cook/CB/Virginia: The big cornerback has been steadily moving up draft boards. He weighed in at a solid 212, then ran his 40 in just under 4.5. Cook's mechanics looked significantly improved since the Senior Bowl and the imposing prospect displayed a lot of athleticism. Cook has solidified himself as a top 75 pick.

Kareem Jackson/CB/Alabama: He answered questions scouts had about his athleticism and defensive back skill set. He ran well in the 40, timing under 4.5 on stop watches. During drills Jackson displayed a quick backpedal, fluid hip movement and the ability to drive to the ball. He's likely assured himself a spot in the draft's initial 40 selections.


Sliders

Joe Haden/CB/Florida: He was really slow in the 40. His hand times of 4.58 translate into electronic times that will broach 4.65. Haden looked terrific in drills, with outstanding ball skills and showing the makings of a starter at the next level. He was projected as a potential top-eight pick, but as we saw last April with Malcolm Jenkins (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/9278), cornerbacks who time poorly in the 40 are not early selections in the draft.

Donovan Warren/CB/Michigan: Warren started by struggling to get under 4.7 in the 40. He was ineffective in drills, exhibiting a poor backpedal, no burst out of his plant and an inability to change direction without losing a lot of momentum.

Chad Jones/S/LSU: Jones ran reasonably well, timing in the mid-4.5s, yet did nothing to dispel the belief he's solely a downhill safety. He was incredibly slow in reverse and displayed poor footwork. He looked a bit confused on the field and had to be stopped in drills several times to be given direction.

Dennis Rogan/CB/Tennessee: Rogan was small and slow, not a good combination at cornerback. He checked in under 5-foot-9 and could not break 4.7 in the 40. Rogan may regret leaving Tennessee a year early.

[Titty Meat]

Good read Laz.

[Mecca]

SI really needs to hire some new people, every other report says NFL teams came away very impressed with Mays.

[Jerm]

I think Eric Berry is the biggest winner...solidified himself as the #1 player in this draft IMO, safety or not.

Dude is a playmaker and that's all that matters.

We will be extremely lucky if he slides to us at #5 and if we pass on him, I will hunt Scott Pioli down myself. It would be beyond moronic.

[Mecca]

I think Eric Berry is the biggest winner...solidified himself as the #1 player in this draft IMO, safety or not.

Dude is a playmaker and that's all that matters.

We will be extremely lucky if he slides to us at #5 and if we pass on him, I will hunt Scott Pioli down myself. It would be beyond moronic.

No matter what he does his highest option is probably Tampa and they basically would prefer to not take him.

[Jerm]

No matter what he does his highest option is probably Tampa and they basically would prefer to not take him.

Agreed...if the Rams take Bradford, Suh or McCoy falls to them at #3, Wash. takes Okung/Clausen, Berry is there at 5. I'd say that's the best case scenario.

[Mecca]

Agreed...if the Rams take Bradford, Suh or McCoy falls to them at #3, Wash. takes Okung/Clausen, Berry is there at 5. I'd say that's the best case scenario.

I still don't believe the Chiefs have much desire to draft a safety.

[Jerm]

I still don't believe the Chiefs have much desire to draft a safety.

Yeah I know what you're saying but I think Berry is such a talent that they can't pass up on him, safety or not.

I don't see how you can justify passing on the next Ed Reed...but this is the Chiefs lol.

[RustShack]

I can see the Chiefs signing Roy Williams..

[Chiefs=Champions]

I still don't believe the Chiefs have much desire to draft a safety.

Serious question here. What makes you think they are more likley to draft a tackle than a saftey?

[Mecca]

Serious question here. What makes you think they are more likley to draft a tackle than a saftey?

Depth of the class, value of the position and Pioli's desire to not have to admit Cassel was a fuck up on his part.

With Pioli go with the big fat guy as the top pick, it's his history, hell I think they'd take Dan Williams before they took a safety.

[Chiefs=Champions]

Depth of the class, value of the position and Pioli's desire to not have to admit Cassel was a **** up on his part.

With Pioli go with the big fat guy as the top pick, it's his history, hell I think they'd take Dan Williams before they took a safety.

Dosnt he have a lack of history when it comes to taking tackles that high though?

[Mecca]

Dosnt he have a lack of history when it comes to taking tackles that high though?

For the most part he does but he was never in this position either where he has a QB who was his big move looking like he shit himself.

[Jerm]

Depth of the class, value of the position and Pioli's desire to not have to admit Cassel was a **** up on his part.

With Pioli go with the big fat guy as the top pick, it's his history, hell I think they'd take Dan Williams before they took a safety.

I just hold out hope that Pioli knows this team needs playmakers...and a lot of them. There isn't a better one in this draft than Berry.

I'd seriously considering just going BPA with every pick, that's how devoid of talent we are.

[Mecca]

Yea but if you look at how he built his teams and how the tree he's from builds team it's all about linemen on both sides.

It's shitty to admit that but we're gonna have a lot of very lackluster drafts.

[Chiefs=Champions]

For the most part he does but he was never in this position either where he has a QB who was his big move looking like he shit himself.

Good point. God, if we draft Okung its going to be a long time untill we recover from this draft.....

[Mecca]

Prepare yourself for the worst is all I can tell you, Pioli is a guy who values linemen specifically defensive linemen over everything.

What playmaker did NE ever draft?

[Jerm]

Prepare yourself for the worst is all I can tell you

After last year, I'm prepped and ready for it. ROFL

[Mecca]

Myron Rolle ran a 4.69, I don't care if he's the smartest man on the planet, that's way to slow.

[BossChief]

That defense in NE has sustained a high ranking because of the investment early on in the DL.

Shit that defense won championships without pass rushers because they had a DL that could take over games. Hopefully, we have exactly that once we add a true NT into the mix and get us some backers.

[BossChief]

Myron Rolle ran a 4.69, I don't care if he's the smartest man on the planet, that's way to slow.

Its a slow track.

Is that time "official"?

I would like to hear what he runs on his proday and if we bring him in for a workout.

[Mecca]

Its a slow track.

Is that time "official"?

I would like to hear what he runs on his proday and if we bring him in for a workout.

How about that he was also excessively stiff in all of the position drills?

People say Mays is stiff and doesn't change direction well, Rolle made him look godlike at it...

[Mr. Laz]

Good point. God, if we draft Okung its going to be a long time untill we recover from this draft.....over-dramatic much? :rolleyes:

[KCrockaholic]

How about that he was also excessively stiff in all of the position drills?

People say Mays is stiff and doesn't change direction well, Rolle made him look godlike at it...

Rolle was bad also, but Mays has a problem with change of direction and when you play Safety, COD is a necessity on every single play. I like Mays, but today showed why he is not the top Safety. Not nearly as fluid as Berry or Thomas for that matter.

[Mecca]

He shouldn't be, Berry and Thomas are CB sized and probably could play CB, Mays isn't just like when you get that "he's not good in man" of course not look at the size of him.

Mays actually looked better today, he flipped his hips really well, the only thing that is a bit sketchy on him is his backpedal isn't very natural but playing safety that shouldn't be to much of an issue.

[KCrockaholic]

He shouldn't be, Berry and Thomas are CB sized and probably could play CB, Mays isn't just like when you get that "he's not good in man" of course not look at the size of him.

Mays actually looked better today, he flipped his hips really well, the only thing that is a bit sketchy on him is his backpedal isn't very natural but playing safety that shouldn't be to much of an issue.

He was very slow in his back pedal. His hips aren't perfect, but proper coaching should help I think. He needs to go to a predominantly zone defense. The fact that Berry and Thomas can play CB only raises their stock because it shows they are versatile, and Berry can actually play all 4 positions as a DB. He did it at Tennessee all the time. I think Pete Carroll falls in love with Mays though.

[Mecca]

Berry is a better prospect, Thomas is really kinda iffy, he's really small, might just be a CB, doesn't play the run very well.

Thomas has nice INT stats but the question becomes really is he just a CB?

[KCrockaholic]

Berry is a better prospect, Thomas is really kinda iffy, he's really small, might just be a CB, doesn't play the run very well.

Thomas has nice INT stats but the question becomes really is he just a CB?

Thomas can probably play either, but I won't be surprised if CB suits him better. I need to work on my mock....

[Chiefs=Champions]

over-dramatic much? :rolleyes:

retard much? :shake:

[Saccopoo]

Good point. God, if we draft Okung its going to be a long time untill we recover from this draft.....

Jesus...you people really don't have a clue do you? I understand that it's not a sexy pick, but it's an important one. And the Chiefs have neglected their offensive line for ten years in terms of the draft.

Do you want to know why the Chiefs suck so bad right now? It's because our offensive line is the absolute shits. Other than an old Walters and a young project, this line has no talent whatsoever.

In drafting Okung, you are getting the premier player in his draft class (which looks to be a pretty good class talent wise) at a premier position. Even if he sucks at left tackle, he can play at RT, RG or LG. It's a no brainer pick for a position of great need by the Chiefs. (Because if you don't think that the offensive line doesn't need upgrading then you are either one of two things: 1. Delusional, or 2. Stupid as fuck.) What the hell is their to recover from in drafting the best, most highly regarded left tackle in a deep and talented draft?

I'd seriously like to know why you think that it's going to take a long time for the Chiefs to recover if they draft Okung? Seriously, I'd like to know why you think drafting the best left tackle in this draft is a negative thing for a team with an offensive line that's as bad as what the Chiefs put out last season.

[Chiefs=Champions]

Jesus...you people really don't have a clue do you? I understand that it's not a sexy pick, but it's an important one. And the Chiefs have neglected their offensive line for ten years in terms of the draft.

Do you want to know why the Chiefs suck so bad right now? It's because our offensive line is the absolute shits. Other than an old Walters and a young project, this line has no talent whatsoever.

In drafting Okung, you are getting the premier player in his draft class (which looks to be a pretty good class talent wise) at a premier position. Even if he sucks at left tackle, he can play at RT, RG or LG. It's a no brainer pick for a position of great need by the Chiefs. (Because if you don't think that the offensive line doesn't need upgrading then you are either one of two things: 1. Delusional, or 2. Stupid as ****.) What the hell is their to recover from in drafting the best, most highly regarded left tackle in a deep and talented draft?

I'd seriously like to know why you think that it's going to take a long time for the Chiefs to recover if they draft Okung? Seriously, I'd like to know why you think drafting the best left tackle in this draft is a negative thing for a team with an offensive line that's as bad as what the Chiefs put out last season.

Im not gonna read this whole thing. but im going to gloss over it as its gonna be the same old, same old argument...

By picking Okung we squander another chance to pick up a top of the line playmaker. Those chances dont come around every fucking year and despite the recent picks the chiefs have had, unless we totally skull fuck our picks (somewhat like last year :( ) we are not going to be picking this high again soon.

u dont take Okung because its a need (btw i dont believe it is, cause i think Albert will be fine), u take the value pick e.g. Berry, Clausen. Thus getting a true playmaker. After all its a playmakers league.

Ur argument is basically saying "Lets draft John Tait, when we have a chance to have a franchise qb or an Ed Reed type saftey..."

It most certainly screws over the chiefs cause u dont get that many chances to pick this high. So when u do ud better get value and add a top of the line talent. If ur always going to take the safe option (McClain, Okung, Jackson) ull end up with a mediocre team without enough talent to make any noise in the playoffs. Essentially its the 2003 chiefs again.

[Chiefs=Champions]

Jesus...you people really don't have a clue do you?

How can u say something like this and then go on to say:


Do you want to know why the Chiefs suck so bad right now? It's because our offensive line is the absolute shits. Other than an old Walters and a young project, this line has no talent whatsoever.



are you fucking serious? :eek: the only reason we are bad is the oline?? its one of the reasons sure but the way u act we're a guard and a tackle away from the playoffs.

Jeez mate, i somewhat valued ur opion before. i have my doubts now... :eek:

[eazyb81]

PFW is the only place I've seen Weatherspoon listed as a combine loser.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/03/02/combine-winners-and-losers

OLB Sean Weatherspoon, Missouri
For as well as Weatherspoon worked out on the field and for as much as his "character" is praised within the Missouri program, he has turned off a number of decision makers just as much with his outlandish, look-at-me, loudmouth personality and has been criticized for worrying too much about his image and post-football career aspirations before he has accomplished anything in the National Football League. "He never shuts up," one top executive said. "He was the loudest guy in the room for the bench press. He gives me a headache. I think he is full of (it). It's all about himself. I don't want him in my locker room."

[chiefzilla1501]

Jesus...you people really don't have a clue do you? I understand that it's not a sexy pick, but it's an important one. And the Chiefs have neglected their offensive line for ten years in terms of the draft.

Do you want to know why the Chiefs suck so bad right now? It's because our offensive line is the absolute shits. Other than an old Walters and a young project, this line has no talent whatsoever.

In drafting Okung, you are getting the premier player in his draft class (which looks to be a pretty good class talent wise) at a premier position. Even if he sucks at left tackle, he can play at RT, RG or LG. It's a no brainer pick for a position of great need by the Chiefs. (Because if you don't think that the offensive line doesn't need upgrading then you are either one of two things: 1. Delusional, or 2. Stupid as ****.) What the hell is their to recover from in drafting the best, most highly regarded left tackle in a deep and talented draft?

I'd seriously like to know why you think that it's going to take a long time for the Chiefs to recover if they draft Okung? Seriously, I'd like to know why you think drafting the best left tackle in this draft is a negative thing for a team with an offensive line that's as bad as what the Chiefs put out last season.

Our bad o-line also paved the way for the 2nd best rusher in the second half in the NFL, and kept Cassel mostly on his feet.

And that doesn't shy away from the point that top Guards and Centers go off the board in the 2nd and 3rd round.

Rather than waste the pick on a LT in the #5, why not get 1 or 2 top-of-the-line interior linemen. That would improve the o-line just as much as bringing in Okung would.

[Mr. Laz]

Im not gonna read this whole thing. but im going to gloss over it as its gonna be the same old, same old argument...

By picking Okung we squander another chance to pick up a top of the line playmaker. Those chances dont come around every fucking year and despite the recent picks the chiefs have had, unless we totally skull fuck our picks (somewhat like last year :( ) we are not going to be picking this high again soon.

u dont take Okung because its a need (btw i dont believe it is, cause i think Albert will be fine), u take the value pick e.g. Berry, Clausen. Thus getting a true playmaker. After all its a playmakers league.

Ur argument is basically saying "Lets draft John Tait, when we have a chance to have a franchise qb or an Ed Reed type saftey..."

It most certainly screws over the chiefs cause u dont get that many chances to pick this high. So when u do ud better get value and add a top of the line talent. If ur always going to take the safe option (McClain, Okung, Jackson) ull end up with a mediocre team without enough talent to make any noise in the playoffs. Essentially its the 2003 chiefs again.and yet it's still just one draft pick

if that pick turns out to be a quality player it doesn't really matter what position they play and it will hardly wreck the franchise for years.

[Saccopoo]

By picking Okung we squander another chance to pick up a top of the line playmaker. Those chances dont come around every ****ing year and despite the recent picks the chiefs have had, unless we totally skull **** our picks (somewhat like last year :( ) we are not going to be picking this high again soon.

The only squandering to be done is to miss out on the premier left tackle in a draft. THAT's the chance that doesn't come around very often, because those guys are gone by pick 10, especially ones with the experience and intangibles and high level of play that you are getting from a guy like Okung. Playmakers are always available in the mid to late first round, especially at positions like safety, linebacker, tight end, running back, corner, etc. The three most important positions on the football field are, in order, QB, Rush End, and Blindside Protector. If you have a chance to take the best at one of those positions in a draft, you take it unless you have a top five guy at that position there already on your team.

I agree that Eric Berry has all the intangibles, and looks to be an excellent prospect, but he's not going to do as much for this team as Okung would in terms of providing high level of play at one of the top positions of need and importance. Safety is a luxury pick, and in passing on high level players at core positions for high level players at secondary positions is what will cost this team in the long run. And I'd even argue that Okung matches Berry in terms of physical abilities and intangibles and on-field production relevant to his specific position.

If Okung is off the board, I'd have no problem with the Chiefs taking Berry. They would be stupid not to. But if Okung is on the board, they'd be stupid taking the elite safety over the elite left tackle. However, like I've said, I seriously doubt that they get the opportunity to draft Okung as I don't see how any of the three teams in front of the Chiefs pass on him, especially when one considers that there will most likely be a run on OT's in the first round this year dropping the talent level at that position in the subsequent rounds substantially, while there will still be excellent prospects at safety in the second and subsequent rounds.

I really think that it is going to come down to Bulaga and Berry. If that's the case, I'd much rather have Berry.

u dont take Okung because its a need (btw i dont believe it is, cause i think Albert will be fine), u take the value pick e.g. Berry, Clausen. Thus getting a true playmaker. After all its a playmakers league.

It's not a playmaker league. It's having a very good quarterback, and protecting that quarterback league. It's having a defense that can pressure a quarterback without relying on blitzing. If you have those three things, you have a chance to win every single game. A good quarterback with good protection will beat a defense with elite level players at coverage positions like safety and corner almost every time.

Ur argument is basically saying "Lets draft John Tait, when we have a chance to have a franchise qb or an Ed Reed type saftey..."

Not at all. If you don't have a franchise level quarterback and have the opportunity to draft one, you draft one over every other position. If you have the opportunity to draft an elite rush end (and I mean ELITE) and you don't have one, you take him. And if you have the opportunity to take that elite left tackle and you don't have one, you take him.

And since you mention Ed Reed, there is a reason why he was picked at #24, Polamalu at #16, Bob Sanders in the second round - they are safeties. Guys like that are going to be there, and the Chiefs, once they build their core and give themselves a chance to get better, will have the opportunity to spend first round draft choices on that type of luxury pick. That's what makes good teams great - that they have solid players at the core positions and then supplement their teams with those "playmakers" at luxury positions. You don't build a team the other way around. (Raiders and Matt Millen's Lions are perfect examples of this - having highly skilled "playmakers" at secondary positions while ignoring the core.)

[L.A. Chieffan]

PFW is the only place I've seen Weatherspoon listed as a combine loser.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/03/02/combine-winners-and-losers

OLB Sean Weatherspoon, Missouri
For as well as Weatherspoon worked out on the field and for as much as his "character" is praised within the Missouri program, he has turned off a number of decision makers just as much with his outlandish, look-at-me, loudmouth personality and has been criticized for worrying too much about his image and post-football career aspirations before he has accomplished anything in the National Football League. "He never shuts up," one top executive said. "He was the loudest guy in the room for the bench press. He gives me a headache. I think he is full of (it). It's all about himself. I don't want him in my locker room."

whoever that "top executive" is should be fucking fired

[Reaper16]

Saccopoo opining about "luxury picks" when he's got a stiffy for drafting the luxury that is a LT when we already have one is an irony that, while I can recognize it, I cannot appreciate.

[DJ's left nut]

whoever that "top executive" is should be ****ing fired

It's ironic that my first thought was "that sounds like something Pioli or Haley would say..."

Shut your mouth and do as I say, meat patty.

[Saccopoo]

Saccopoo opining about "luxury picks" when he's got a stiffy for drafting the luxury that is a LT when we already have one is an irony that, while I can recognize it, I cannot appreciate.

The true irony is that you think that we actually have a left tackle currently on the roster.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

That defense in NE has sustained a high ranking because of the investment early on in the DL.

Shit that defense won championships without pass rushers because they had a DL that could take over games. Hopefully, we have exactly that once we add a true NT into the mix and get us some backers.

The Patriots won 0 Super Bowls with Wilfork as starter and one with Warren.

As their LBs and secondary aged, their defense declined precipitously.

[Chiefnj2]

The true irony is that you think that we actually have a left tackle currently on the roster.

We won't know for sure until Albert is afforded the opportunity to play the position for an entire season without the turmoil of having to learn a new system a week before the season starts. He certainly has the potential to hold down the spot. The same can not be said of the safety position.

[Saccopoo]

We won't know for sure until Albert is afforded the opportunity to play the position for an entire season without the turmoil of having to learn a new system a week before the season starts. He certainly has the potential to hold down the spot. The same can not be said of the safety position.

Mike Brown was All-Pro. Until they shore up the NT spot, get a better ILB, get more pressure on the qb and have a better corner opposite of Flowers, it wouldn't matter if the Chiefs had Paul Krause and Ronnie Lott back there. A lot of people have this misconception that by drafting Eric Berry that the Chiefs all of a sudden become the Baltimore Ravens defensively, and it doesn't work that way.

I fully understand that both safety positions need help. But so does the offensive line, even more than safety does. Because we don't know for sure about Albert at the LT spot after two full years of starting at the position, regardless of the scheme, it's a red flag at this point.

[Mr. Laz]

We won't know for sure until Albert is afforded the opportunity to play the position for an entire season without the turmoil of having to learn a new system a week before the season starts. He certainly has the potential to hold down the spot. The same can not be said of the safety position.
so then Cassel and the rest of the offensive players get afforded that same opportunity before judgment?

[DJ's left nut]

Mike Brown was All-Pro.

Yeah, and Willie Mays could play a mean CF with the Giants. Tell that to the Mets.

Mike Brown absolutely killed this defense, as did Corey Mays. Berry would make a far bigger impact on this defense than anyone short of a true dominant NT would. Allowing him to play CF would give our SS more leeway to jump into the plays, it would lets our corners play more aggressively, it would even free the LBs up a bit knowing that they have more help back there.

Granted, Brown and Berry don't play the same position, but the theory holds true. One guy in your backfield that can cover for so many players while simultaneously making huge plays himself is immensly valuable.

But who cares? Clausen FTW!

[Frosty]

Mike Brown absolutely killed this defense,

So why is it that the one year that Mike Brown isn't injury prone is the year that he is sucking it up for the Chiefs? This franchise is cursed. :grr:

[DJ's left nut]

So why is it that the one year that Mike Brown isn't injury prone is the year that he is sucking it up for the Chiefs? This franchise is cursed. :grr:

Valid point.

The worthless asswipe could've at least blown out his knee again or something.

[Reaper16]

Mike Brown was All-Pro. Until they shore up the NT spot, get a better ILB, get more pressure on the qb and have a better corner opposite of Flowers, it wouldn't matter if the Chiefs had Paul Krause and Ronnie Lott back there. A lot of people have this misconception that by drafting Eric Berry that the Chiefs all of a sudden become the Baltimore Ravens defensively, and it doesn't work that way.

I fully understand that both safety positions need help. But so does the offensive line, even more than safety does. Because we don't know for sure about Albert at the LT spot after two full years of starting at the position, regardless of the scheme, it's a red flag at this point.
Oh Jesus Christ please watch football more. Not only do you think Albert doesn't have it but you think Carr doesn't have it either?

[Chiefnj2]

Mike Brown was All-Pro. .

Are you serious? You are saying that KC doesn't have a dire need for a safety because Mike Brown was an all pro when Dick Vermeil was coaching the Chiefs? That's full retard.

[Saccopoo]

Oh Jesus Christ please watch football more. Not only do you think Albert doesn't have it but you think Carr doesn't have it either?

Carr has gotten better, but he still struggles with his hip turn and loses a lot of his speed when receivers go on post routes against him.

He's okay I guess.

And I'm pretty sure the general consensus is that Albert has struggled at left tackle for two years now. It's not just me who has come to this conclusion.

[Saccopoo]

Are you serious? You are saying that KC doesn't have a dire need for a safety because Mike Brown was an all pro when Dick Vermeil was coaching the Chiefs? That's full retard.

No, I'm saying that a safety needs help from the people up front to create situations where mistakes are being made by the quarterback, running back, receivers, etc. that allow the safety to make plays versus forcing them to be the "last line of defense" guy that Brown and McGraw were last season.

Im saying that Brown has been a playmaker for his whole career, but having an excellent defense in front of him allowed him to make those plays. On the Chiefs, there wasn't much happening that allowed him to do that.

As I stated, you could put Paul Krause and Ronnie Lott on this team and it wouldn't drastically help matters. That's why I'm saying that the pick of Berry is a bit frivolous at this point for the Chiefs. (Although he would help in nickel alignment situations.)

[Reaper16]

Carr has gotten better, but he still struggles with his hip turn and loses a lot of his speed when receivers go on post routes against him.

He's okay I guess.

And I'm pretty sure the general consensus is that Albert has struggled at left tackle for two years now. It's not just me who has come to this conclusion.
OK you guess? He was basically equivalent to Flowers last year (minus the ball skills). Who thinks Albert struggled his rookie year?

[L.A. Chieffan]

Who thinks Albert struggled his rookie year?

He was too fat/Haley

[DJ's left nut]

OK you guess? He was basically equivalent to Flowers last year (minus the ball skills). Who thinks Albert struggled his rookie year?

Albert also improved markedly as the season progressed last season.

The kid is a LT in this league.

I've had this discussion several times already, but we ran the ball as anyone in football in the 2nd half last year and got sacked singificantly less often as the season went on (even with Cassel's ball-clamping ways back there). The line was pretty decent as the season went on.

I've said it before, outside of the CBs and Charles, the O-line was our most effective unit by the end of the season.

[milkman]

Albert also improved markedly as the season progressed last season.

The kid is a LT in this league.

I've had this discussion several times already, but we ran the ball as anyone in football in the 2nd half last year and got sacked singificantly less often as the season went on (even with Cassel's ball-clamping ways back there). The line was pretty decent as the season went on.

I've said it before, outside of the CBs and Charles, the O-line was our most effective unit by the end of the season.

No, no, no.

Albert has been shit since the day he was born.

Just ask sackofshit.

[Mi_chief_fan]

I think Eric Berry is the biggest winner...solidified himself as the #1 player in this draft IMO, safety or not.

Dude is a playmaker and that's all that matters.

We will be extremely lucky if he slides to us at #5 and if we pass on him, I will hunt Scott Pioli down myself. It would be beyond moronic.

Agreed.........even though he let a throw go right through his hands in a drill, promting Deion Sanders to give him some business. I hope we pick Berry, though. Can get OL help in the lower rounds.

[chiefzilla1501]

No, I'm saying that a safety needs help from the people up front to create situations where mistakes are being made by the quarterback, running back, receivers, etc. that allow the safety to make plays versus forcing them to be the "last line of defense" guy that Brown and McGraw were last season.

Im saying that Brown has been a playmaker for his whole career, but having an excellent defense in front of him allowed him to make those plays. On the Chiefs, there wasn't much happening that allowed him to do that.

As I stated, you could put Paul Krause and Ronnie Lott on this team and it wouldn't drastically help matters. That's why I'm saying that the pick of Berry is a bit frivolous at this point for the Chiefs. (Although he would help in nickel alignment situations.)

Not in a 3-4, it's not. I agree that safeties are more likely to get picked off when the front 3 doesn't do their job, or when they're covering the asses for our LBs.

But Safeties have become one of the more vital piece to a 3-4, because it gives you so much range for the kinds of looks you can give an opposing defense. Polamalu can blow up screens, play as a corner, or rush the QB, in addition to being big/tough enough to be big in run support. There are a lot of looks Lebeau can't give when Polamalu isn't in the game--he's that important.

O-linemen, 3-4 D-linemen, Inside Linebackers are all paid to do their jobs well, but they're not going to be playmakers that completely change the way you play defense/offense. A Safety has the potential to turn your defense from vanilla to innovative. One player is that important.

[DJ's left nut]

Not in a 3-4, it's not. I agree that safeties are more likely to get picked off when the front 3 doesn't do their job, or when they're covering the asses for our LBs.

But Safeties have become one of the more vital piece to a 3-4, because it gives you so much range for the kinds of looks you can give an opposing defense. Polamalu can blow up screens, play as a corner, or rush the QB, in addition to being big/tough enough to be big in run support. There are a lot of looks Lebeau can't give when Polamalu isn't in the game--he's that important.

O-linemen, 3-4 D-linemen, Inside Linebackers are all paid to do their jobs well, but they're not going to be playmakers that completely change the way you play defense/offense. A Safety has the potential to turn your defense from vanilla to innovative. One player is that important.

Shutup dick, you don't know what you're talking.....

Wait...what did you say?

If I agree with you, then I'm clearly mistaken. I generally find you to be the football equivalent of a CoMo prognostication.

Good thing I'm pro-Clausen or I'd be really concerned about backing Berry.

[BossChief]

The Patriots won 0 Super Bowls with Wilfork as starter and one with Warren.

As their LBs and secondary aged, their defense declined precipitously.

The Patriots won the 2004 superbowl (that was Wilforks rookie year and Romeos last in NE FTR) He started the second half of the season and did so start in the superbowl.

http://www.patriots.com/search/index.cfm?ac=searchdetail&pid=11016&pcid=41

Warren was there for the 2003 and 2004 superbowl. (thats 2 buddy, though I dont think he started in his first superbowl I know he started in the 2004 one from the article I linked)

You cant deflect that a lot of the best teams in the NFL spend a lot of first rounders on their DL and more specifically their run defense.

[Chiefnj2]

Im saying that Brown has been a playmaker for his whole career, but having an excellent defense in front of him allowed him to make those plays. On the Chiefs, there wasn't much happening that allowed him to do that.



2005 was his last year as a playmaker. He's slow as shit because of age and a history of major injuries.

But lets assume you are correct, that DB's will benefit from an improved DL. So what? What does that have to do with KC drafting Berry? KC has two top 5 picks invested in the DL. There isn't a NT ranked as high as Berry, nor is there a pass rushing OLB ranked that high. Why not go with the safety?

[chiefzilla1501]

Shutup dick, you don't know what you're talking.....

Wait...what did you say?

If I agree with you, then I'm clearly mistaken. I generally find you to be the football equivalent of a CoMo prognostication.

Good thing I'm pro-Clausen or I'd be really concerned about backing Berry.

Sorry, buddy, but those are my top 2 too.

[Chiefs=Champions]

The three most important positions on the football field are, in order, QB, Rush End, and Blindside Protector. If you have a chance to take the best at one of those positions in a draft, you take it unless you have a top five guy at that position there already on your team.

So really you should be pimping Clausen??


I agree that Eric Berry has all the intangibles, and looks to be an excellent prospect, but he's not going to do as much for this team as Okung would in terms of providing high level of play at one of the top positions of need and importance.

I would rather an Ed Reed clone over John Tait any day of the week...


Safety is a luxury pick, and in passing on high level players at core positions for high level players at secondary positions is what will cost this team in the long run. And I'd even argue that Okung matches Berry in terms of physical abilities and intangibles and on-field production relevant to his specific position.

Seriously? he doesn’t seem all that impressive to me. I would have rather (if i thought Albert was a bust) taken a left tackle last year.. To be honest im starting to like Bruce Campbell a lot more than Okung...

Im not sure how having an Ed Reed clone hurts this team in any way? With this league becoming pass oriented i dont see at all how it can hurt the Chiefs. I think ull find that the value of safeties in future drafts will sky rocket.



Not at all. If you don't have a franchise level quarterback and have the opportunity to draft one, you draft one over every other position. If you have the opportunity to draft an elite rush end (and I mean ELITE) and you don't have one, you take him. And if you have the opportunity to take that elite left tackle and you don't have one, you take him.


So again we should be taking Clausen then??

When it comes down to it the only way you can justify your pimping of Okung is by your belief that he will be a top 10 tackle in this league, Albert is a complete bust and Cassel is going to be a franchise QB.

That’s all fine your entitled to ur opinion, but it is of my opinion that Okung is not a top 10 LT, Albert will be fine and Cassel sucks donkey dick. Also im of the belief that Clausen seem like a possible franchise tackle and that Berry is essentially Ed Reed, while Okung is nothing special.

With that in mind IMHO it is most certainly a skull fuck of a pick to take Okung, as through him were wasting a high pick on a player that IMO we already have and using one of our limited high first round picks in doing so...

It will be interesting to see whos right and whos wrong but we wont no for awhile now.

However it seems pretty stupid to question my takes on football and the draft and vice versa when essentially were using the same method but with different opinions on certain players...

[Chiefs=Champions]

and yet it's still just one draft pick

if that pick turns out to be a quality player it doesn't really matter what position they play and it will hardly wreck the franchise for years.

It will if we miss out on another chance to draft a franchise QB or a game changing saftey for a 'quality player' at LT....................

[Saccopoo]

It will be interesting to see whos right and whos wrong but we wont no for awhile now.

It will be about the second week of summer camp at the latest. When they make Bulaga their starting left tackle and Albert is at either left or right guard, depending upon who they prefer at either position between Waters and Albert.

In three years, you'll be begging the gods of replay that they had the opportunity to take Okung, as Berry languishes in relative obscurity in Tampa Bay, Bulaga is a middling LT for the Chiefs, and Okung is knocking the piss out of people under Shanahan in DC.

[Reaper16]

It will be about the second week of summer camp at the latest. When they make Bulaga their starting left tackle and Albert is at either left or right guard, depending upon who they prefer at either position between Waters and Albert.

In three years, you'll be begging the gods of replay that they had the opportunity to take Okung, as Berry languishes in relative obscurity in Tampa Bay, Bulaga is a middling LT for the Chiefs, and Okung is knocking the piss out of people under Shanahan in DC.
FindtheOkung

['Hamas' Jenkins]

The Patriots won the 2004 superbowl (that was Wilforks rookie year and Romeos last in NE FTR) He started the second half of the season and did so start in the superbowl.

http://www.patriots.com/search/index.cfm?ac=searchdetail&pid=11016&pcid=41

Warren was there for the 2003 and 2004 superbowl. (thats 2 buddy, though I dont think he started in his first superbowl I know he started in the 2004 one from the article I linked)

You cant deflect that a lot of the best teams in the NFL spend a lot of first rounders on their DL and more specifically their run defense.

No, most NFL teams spend first rounders on pass rushers, not Tyson Jacksons.

Yes, it's an important position from the perspective of the run defense of a 3-4, and yes its value will increase as more teams run the 3-4, but you were putting words in my mouth by assuming that they didn't spend picks on DL. I didn't.

What I said was that New England won their Super Bowls when all of the linemen who are there now were not major contributors.

You don't have to have 3 1st rounders on your DL to be successful, and that's born out by the fact that NE's defense has been worse since those players have become better.

They aren't a panacea.

[BossChief]

That defense in NE has sustained a high ranking because of the investment early on in the DL.

Shit that defense won championships without pass rushers because they had a DL that could take over games. Hopefully, we have exactly that once we add a true NT into the mix and get us some backers.

The Patriots won 0 Super Bowls with Wilfork as starter and one with Warren.

As their LBs and secondary aged, their defense declined precipitously.

The Patriots won the 2004 superbowl (that was Wilforks rookie year and Romeos last in NE FTR) He started the second half of the season and did so start in the superbowl.

http://www.patriots.com/search/index.cfm?ac=searchdetail&pid=11016&pcid=41

Warren was there for the 2003 and 2004 superbowl. (thats 2 buddy, though I dont think he started in his first superbowl I know he started in the 2004 one from the article I linked)

You cant deflect that a lot of the best teams in the NFL spend a lot of first rounders on their DL and more specifically their run defense.

No, most NFL teams spend first rounders on pass rushers, not Tyson Jacksons.

Yes, it's an important position from the perspective of the run defense of a 3-4, and yes its value will increase as more teams run the 3-4, but you were putting words in my mouth by assuming that they didn't spend picks on DL. I didn't.

What I said was that New England won their Super Bowls when all of the linemen who are there now were not major contributors.

You don't have to have 3 1st rounders on your DL to be successful, and that's born out by the fact that NE's defense has been worse since those players have become better.

They aren't a panacea.

All I did was correct the errors in the post, if that was taken as putting words in your mouth I do apologize.

All Im saying is that this defense doesnt look to its pass rush as a reason they are consistently good, its their run defense. Over the last ten years they have only had two players (3 counting Tull banta cain last year) get double digit sacks. Its built on run defense from the inside out with versatile players.

If they decide to draft a LOLB they likely wont target the best pass rusher, more so the best run defender that can cover.

I know its not flashy, but its what to expect.

[Chiefs=Champions]

It will be about the second week of summer camp at the latest. When they make Bulaga their starting left tackle and Albert is at either left or right guard, depending upon who they prefer at either position between Waters and Albert.

In three years, you'll be begging the gods of replay that they had the opportunity to take Okung, as Berry languishes in relative obscurity in Tampa Bay, Bulaga is a middling LT for the Chiefs, and Okung is knocking the piss out of people under Shanahan in DC.

I dont remember ever liking Bulaga... If Bulaga is the pick i seriously may hurl.....

[BossChief]

Bulaga will be the best Ol from this class when its all said and done.

I think he is much better than Okung from watching both.

I question about his arm length and his hands are small but everything else is there. Hes a good kid too.

Moeaki will be the drafts biggest sleeper, Bulaga will be the classes best OL and I think Angerer has a 10+ year career with a couple probowls.

Crazy thing is their best player last year IMHO was Adrian Clayborne and it wasnt even close. He will be a top ten guy next year.

[BossChief]

Go Hawkeyes!

[tyton75]

Veldheer is the one I want in the 2nd-3rd round range

[Chiefnj2]

The 34 OLB's in this draft are incredibly athletic. 240+ pound DE/OLBs who have enough quickness and agility to top almost all of the RB's in the draft (from draft nasty):

Jerry Hughes DE/OLB TCU

Probably the most fluid of the conversion 3-4 OLBs in drills..he also ran extremely well (4.69), which wasn't much of a surprise. He put up good numbers in the bench press (26), showed lower body explosiveness and true bend ability in bag drills. His short area burst to close ranks near the top of this class and it translated to the drill work in Indy. His time of 4.15 in the 20 yard short shuttle may have been one of the eye opening numbers of the weekend at any position. Especially when you consider that Hughes' short shuttle would have ranked fourth among running backs and was faster than Cal's Jahvid Best. Hughes has a solid chance to be a first round pick.

Thaddeus Gibson DE/OLB Ohio State

Gibson, 6'2" 243 pounds, was believed to have made a questionable decision to come out early for the 2010 NFL Draft. However, after looking very solid in all of the 3-4 OLB conversion drills and showing surprising strength (32 reps/225), Gibson has at least solidified a place amongst the top 3-4 OLB prospects in this year's draft. His time of 6.84 in the 3 Cone Drill would have tied Wayne State's Joique Bell for second among the running backs.

[Mecca]

Hughes has put himself into first round discussion at this point.

[AustinChief]

Hughes has put himself into first round discussion at this point.He's athletic as all hell, my only concern is that he is a converted RB.. so I expect a pretty steep learning curve for him compared to someone like Graham.... but I would jump on either one at our 2a pick if they slipped... and I would be ecstatic if Kindle fell that far.

[Saccopoo]

He's athletic as all hell, my only concern is that he is a converted RB.. so I expect a pretty steep learning curve for him compared to someone like Graham.... but I would jump on either one at our 2a pick if they slipped... and I would be ecstatic if Kindle fell that far.

He was a running back in high school. I don't think that by him being on the defensive side of the ball for the past four years and starting for the last two and excelling at it means that he's got some massive learning curve. It's going to be the same for both Hughes and Graham (oops! I mean Woodley - sorry about that.) in terms of converting to an OLB position in a 3-4 at the next level - if they go to a 3-4 team.

If they were all there with the Chiefs pick, I'd go:

1. Kindle
2. Hughes
3. Graham-Woodley

[AustinChief]

He was a running back in high school. I don't think that by him being on the defensive side of the ball for the past four years and starting for the last two and excelling at it means that he's got some massive learning curve. It's going to be the same for both Hughes and Graham (oops! I mean Woodley - sorry about that.) in terms of converting to an OLB position in a 3-4 at the next level - if they go to a 3-4 team.

If they were all there with the Chiefs pick, I'd go:

1. Kindle
2. Hughes
3. Graham-Woodley

Kindle is a given... Hughes is slightly more athletic but not nearly as strong as Graham .. who played LB since he was 8. Graham gets the nod from me based on that... I have watched ever game both have played(U-M fan with family at TCU) and I love Hughes but Graham edges him.

All of this is assuming they all go 3-4 OLB. I only hope that at least ONE of them falls to us at the 2a pick...

[DaneMcCloud]

And I'm pretty sure the general consensus is that Albert has struggled at left tackle for two years now. It's not just me who has come to this conclusion.

Huh?

[milkman]

Huh?

I'm guessing he's talking about all the so called experts who probably haven't watched this team since Dick left.

[Saccopoo]

Huh?

Don't respond to one of my posts until you go to Johnny's Pastrami on Sepulveda in Culver City.

You do not exist as a Los Angelesian until you do so.