Clausen and Tate?

[Sully]

If they are available at our picks, I want to know if you would be happy or unhappy if we ended up with both.

[DeezNutz]

I'd be fine with both, with priority on drafting the former.

[OnTheWarpath15]

http://i35.tinypic.com/2lbc8iw.gif

[KCrockaholic]

Sure. I won't be pissed like I would if we ended up with Okung/Bulaga and Corey Wootton. I feel like if we drafted Clausen, the only real way to make it complete would be to make sure we get Tate also.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Tate would be an excellent slot receiver to pair with Bowe. Draft a guy like Julio Jones next year, and you have one of the best offenses in the NFL.

But every other pick in 2010 and 2011 should, save one interior line spot, be spent on defense, or we is fucked.

[DeezNutz]

But every other pick in 2010 and 2011 should save one interior line spot be spent on defense, or we is ****ed.

By "defense" you mean "offensive line," of course.

[Sully]

I'd be ecstatic.

I still think RB needs to be addressed (I'm still not totally sold on Charles being "the guy"... Injuries and fumbles and such), but I agree with Hamas that the rest of the two drafts need to rely heavily on D.

[Sully]

And what if Olsen was added into that equation?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

And what if Olsen was added into that equation?

If he can be an average starting center and we can get him in round 4-5, then awesome.

[The Franchise]

I'm a Notre Dame fan.....what do you think?

[the Talking Can]

Berry/Tate would be amazing too...two guys who you'd have to believe would contribute as playmakers immediately

after seeing tate's 40, he'd look pretty damn good with Bowe, Chambers, Charles....that's nice mix of speed and size

then grab the best lb/nt with 2b

[DJ's left nut]

I'm a bit of a closet ND fan myself (and by closet ND fan I mean I would hit Bob Davie with a car if I ever saw him).

So as a drafturbator or whatever the hell you call someone that wants the Chiefs to develop a QB and draft some playmakers, I believe I would certainly JIMP.

Twice.

[milkman]

Berry/Tate would be amazing too...two guys who you'd have to believe would contribute as playmakers immediately

after seeing tate's 40, he'd look pretty damn good with Bowe, Chambers, Charles....that's nice mix of speed and size

then grab the best lb/nt with 2b

A WR can only be a playmaker if he has a QB that can get the ball to him.

I'm not entirely sold on Clausen, but I hope after the Cassel experiment fails this year we go after a QB in the draft next year.

I won't bitch if they did decide to take Clausen this year, though.

[the Talking Can]

A WR can only be a playmaker if he has a QB that can get the ball to him.

I'm not entirely sold on Clausen, but I hope after the Cassel experiment fails this year we go after a QB in the draft next year.

I won't bitch if they did decide to take Clausen this year, though.

well, i was discussing a hypothetical...LMAO


I want Clausen, but don't actually believe they'd draft a QB. They're pussies.

thankfully this draft has a true stud waiting to console me....Berry

[OnTheWarpath15]

well, i was discussing a hypothetical...LMAO


I want Clausen, but don't actually believe they'd draft a QB. They're pussies.

thankfully this draft has a true stud waiting to console me....Berry

And when they pass on Berry?

[milkman]

What scares the hell out of me is the thought that they'll pass on Clausen and Berry and draft Buluga and then take TeBow in the third round.

[ChiefsCountry]

Buluga would be a better pick than that POS Okung.

[the Talking Can]

And when they pass on Berry?

i already expect them to....they're pussies


i quit caring by 78% after last year.....only way to stay sane

[DJ's left nut]

And when they pass on Berry?

J-E-T-S until Pioli's gone?

I remember reading Posnanski's column about how difficult it is for him to root for the Royals. He said the most horrifying realization came when he finally figured out that the Royals simply do not have the same philosophy as him regarding...well anything really.

If we draft a damn tackle, I'll have reached that point with this franchise. I will simply never be happy with anything they do. I'll do what I can, but right now everytime I see us do something it annoys the piss out of me and everytime I see the Jets make a move I applaud it and wish we'd have done the same.

The Jets weren't given any advantages over KC; there's no reason we couldn't be where they are.

[Ebolapox]

I'd be happy.

[KCrockaholic]

i already expect them to....they're pussies


i quit caring by 78% after last year.....only way to stay sane

I agree. I hate to think it, and say it, but these guys are going to pass on Berry, and he will be available. They will take Bulaga and go the safe route. I will just be so pissed off at the direction of this team if they do this. I would probably officially be off the Pioli wagon. Just like with Cassel, I said I would give Pioli 2 years to prove his worth and show me that he knows what hes doing. But I wont be confident at all if they pass on Berry.

[Nightfyre]

I have to say, Jimmy Clausen has a lot of potential. He already throws some NFL routes very well, especially dig and sideline routes. His timing is immaculate on these routes. He has adequate arm strength and supreme accuracy. He is very in control of the two-minute drill. I don't have a substantial enough sample size to see how well he reads and audibles, but I have seen a couple of instances of it in the tape I have looked at. Good footwork 98% of the time. Occasionally he has a hitch when he's in a hurry.

However, a couple things he will have to address in the NFL - locking on to his primary receiver. He does this on nearly every play. Moving through his progression much faster. And, he holds on to the ball for a long time. His endzone jump balls worked at the college level, but they are pretty lofty and take a long time to get to the receiver for the pro level.

[Saccopoo]

The Jets weren't given any advantages over KC; there's no reason we couldn't be where they are.

Sure they were. We gave them a 4th round draft pick for Herm. They've been Herm-free for three years longer than we have. That's a decided advantage.

If we draft a damn tackle, I'll have reached that point with this franchise. I will simply never be happy with anything they do. I'll do what I can, but right now everytime I see us do something it annoys the piss out of me and everytime I see the Jets make a move I applaud it and wish we'd have done the same.

And yet, there were the Jets, right after Herm left, taking a tackle AND a center in the first round of the 2006 draft. Now, you'll reach the breaking point if the Chiefs draft a tackle, but then say that you wish we'd do the same as the Jets, who just three seasons ago spent not one, but two first rounders on offensive linemen - linemen who are now counted as some of the best in the business and provide excellent protection and push for the Jets running and passing game.

But you'd hate it if the Chiefs did the same, but want them to do the same.

I'm confused...

[Saccopoo]

And then, to top it off, the Jets took a tight end in the first round of 2008. That's right - a tight end in the first round.

And they also took Vernon Gholston.

So, if they Chiefs take a Tackle and Center with their first two picks, say, Okung and Pouncey, this year, and then next year take a tight end with their first rounder, you'd be happy because they'd be then emulating the J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets? Because you yourself said that you wish we'd do the same as them, correct?

I just want to be clear on this.

[Chiefs=Champions]

What scares the hell out of me is the thought that they'll pass on Clausen and Berry and draft Buluga and then take TeBow in the third round.

i shuddered just now..

[UKMike]

What scares the hell out of me is the thought that they'll pass on Clausen and Berry and draft Buluga and then take TeBow in the third round.


I'm terrified that they'll take Buluga. If we HAVE to have a left tackle then it better at least be the best one.

Am I the only one that wouldn't be too bothered with Tebow in the 3rd or later? I think he's worth a flyer, just don't waste a really valuable pick on him.

[Chiefs=Champions]

I'm terrified that they'll take Buluga. If we HAVE to have a left tackle then it better at least be the best one.

Am I the only one that wouldn't be too bothered with Tebow in the 3rd or later? I think he's worth a flyer, just don't waste a really valuable pick on him.

In this draft a 3rd round pick is a very valuable pick..

[UKMike]

In this draft a 3rd round pick is a very valuable pick..

I understand that and I realise it's very difficult to say how good a pick could be without knowing who else was available at the time.

I would be somewhat more comfortable with our QB situation if we had Cassel, Croyle, Tebow on the depth chart. That's one guy who's got another year to show he can be an NFL QB, and two guys who are both huge long shots but who both undoubtedly have something about them that makes you think they have a chance.

If taking Tebow meant passing on a definite team improving 1st year starter, I probably don't think it's worth it however.

[the Talking Can]

Sure they were. We gave them a 4th round draft pick for Herm. They've been Herm-free for three years longer than we have. That's a decided advantage.



And yet, there were the Jets, right after Herm left, taking a tackle AND a center in the first round of the 2006 draft. Now, you'll reach the breaking point if the Chiefs draft a tackle, but then say that you wish we'd do the same as the Jets, who just three seasons ago spent not one, but two first rounders on offensive linemen - linemen who are now counted as some of the best in the business and provide excellent protection and push for the Jets running and passing game.

But you'd hate it if the Chiefs did the same, but want them to do the same.

I'm confused...

I'm confused too. Because the corn i shit out last night ended up inside your skull.

Did the Jets draft a LT to replace the other first round LT they had already drafted two years prior? NO.

No. They didn't already have a first round pick at LT. So what they did is actually nothing like what you are advocating. They have zero in common.

And in fact what New York did after drafting their first round LT is then, 3 years later, trade up to #5 to pick a QBOTF.

We now have our second chance to do EXACTLY WHAT THE JETS DID: Draft a QB at #5 after having acquired a LT in a previous draft. And you're crying like a bitch about us wanting to do that.

You don't have the first god damn clue about what teams have done, or should do.


And how's that dumb secondary pick they made doing? What's his name....Revis?

Yeah, they totally blew an opportunity to draft OL there, for a silly playmaker in the secondary. What were they thinking, Sack of Testes?

Holy shit they passed on Joe Staley and Ben Grubbs for a ****ing CB.

[Chiefnj2]

Commentators usually love a 2 deep QB draft and hype the competition endlessly. It isn't happening this year. The "experts" all seem to have Bradford as the #1 guy. Why?

[Chiefs=Champions]

I understand that and I realise it's very difficult to say how good a pick could be without knowing who else was available at the time.

I would be somewhat more comfortable with our QB situation if we had Cassel, Croyle, Tebow on the depth chart. That's one guy who's got another year to show he can be an NFL QB, and two guys who are both huge long shots but who both undoubtedly have something about them that makes you think they have a chance.

If taking Tebow meant passing on a definite team improving 1st year starter, I probably don't think it's worth it however.

Tebows a good guy and perhaps the greatest college player of all time, but i think your overestimating his nfl ability..

[Chiefs=Champions]

I'm confused too. Because the corn i shit out last night ended up inside your skull.

Did the Jets draft a LT to replace the other first round LT they had already drafted two years prior? NO.

No. They didn't already have a first round pick at LT. So what they did is actually nothing like what you are advocating. They have zero in common.

And in fact what New York did after drafting their first round LT is then, 3 years later, trade up to #5 to pick a QBOTF.

We now have our second chance to do EXACTLY WHAT THE JETS DID: Draft a QB at #5 after having acquired a LT in a previous draft. And you're crying like a bitch about us wanting to do that.

You don't have the first god damn clue about what teams have done, or should do.


And how's that dumb secondary pick they made doing? What's his name....Revis?

Yeah, they totally blew an opportunity to draft OL there, for a silly playmaker in the secondary. What were they thinking, Sack of Testes?

Holy shit they passed on Joe Staley and Ben Grubbs for a ****ing CB.

This post is full of win. Well done.

[Sully]

So it's official.

Every fucking thread for the next month is going to be exactly the fucking same.

Jesus.

[UKMike]

Tebows a good guy and perhaps the greatest college player of all time, but i think your overestimating his nfl ability..

Ok Maybe, I'm not claiming to be any type of expert, but I think we need to take a QB with potential at some point. What about LeFevour, how long can we expect him to be available for?

[Chiefs=Champions]

Ok Maybe, I'm not claiming to be any type of expert, but I think we need to take a QB with potential at some point. What about LeFevour, how long can we expect him to be available for?

Na i see wat ur saying and its a justified argument. though not for Tebow. I think if we have the chance we should take Clausen. If your looking to take a qb you do it right and select the one with the best chance at becoming a franchise qb. I didnt watch LeFevour but have heard good things. He hasnt done himself any favours by not throwing at the combine though.

[Chiefs=Champions]

Oh and i think he should be avaliable at the top of the 3rd, depends on his pro day i guess though...

[Stewie]

I'd be happy with both. I'm not sold on Cassel yet and we need speed on the outside. The one caveat is that if we drafted Tate our QB needs to know how to consistently throw a deep pass. GD it was frustrating watching Cassel throw a 40 yard pass w/o putting some air under it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

J-E-T-S until Pioli's gone?

I remember reading Posnanski's column about how difficult it is for him to root for the Royals. He said the most horrifying realization came when he finally figured out that the Royals simply do not have the same philosophy as him regarding...well anything really.

If we draft a damn tackle, I'll have reached that point with this franchise. I will simply never be happy with anything they do. I'll do what I can, but right now everytime I see us do something it annoys the piss out of me and everytime I see the Jets make a move I applaud it and wish we'd have done the same.

The Jets weren't given any advantages over KC; there's no reason we couldn't be where they are.

I remember getting laughed at this time last year when I said that Detroit would win a playoff game before we do.

They play in a much tougher division, and after I saw what they did in the draft last year, and what they did immediately in FA this year, I still think they will.

If they had taken Oher instead of Pettigrew at 20 last year?

No brainer.

As it stands right now, 12 months after a regime change for both teams, the Lions are a MUCH better team than the Chiefs.

[Fish]

I would be ecstatic if we were to land both Clausen and Tate. I'm nuts about Clausen. More so than any QB in the last 3-4 years. But I fully expect the Chiefs to puss out and pass on him simply due to their ego over the Cassel mistake. I'd like to say it wouldn't hurt so bad passing on Clausen, because we'll likely have a shot at Berry there too. But I'm starting to suspect that these clowns are going to do the lowball pussy move, and draft a lineman. Then we'll get to watch Cassel totally flounder all year behind a decent OLine, and set the franchise back some more. They're going to hang on to Cassel too long, and it's going to get ugly and piss everyone off.

[Chiefs=Champions]

I would be ecstatic if we were to land both Clausen and Tate. I'm nuts about Clausen. More so than any QB in the last 3-4 years. But I fully expect the Chiefs to puss out and pass on him simply due to their ego over the Cassel mistake. I'd like to say it wouldn't hurt so bad passing on Clausen, because we'll likely have a shot at Berry there too. But I'm starting to suspect that these clowns are going to do the lowball pussy move, and draft a lineman. Then we'll get to watch Cassel totally flounder all year behind a decent OLine, and set the franchise back some more. They're going to hang on to Cassel too long, and it's going to get ugly and piss everyone off.

Sadly this....

[Saccopoo]

A WR can only be a playmaker if he has a QB that can get the ball to him.

Conversely, a quarterback can only be a playmaker if he has time to get the ball to them.

[Saccopoo]

Am I the only one that wouldn't be too bothered with Tebow in the 3rd or later? I think he's worth a flyer, just don't waste a really valuable pick on him.

Tebow or Jamarcus Russell?

Tebow or Vince Young?

Tebow or Alex Smith?

Would you have taken a "flyer" on those guys in those drafts? And how do they compare to Tebow?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Conversely, a quarterback can only be a playmaker if he has time to get the ball to them.

And when the QB was sacked only 8 times in a 6 game stretch last year, and had the benefit of the running game opening things up, he threw 10 INT's to 4 TD's, had a 55% completion rate and a 55.8 QB rating.

[Crush]

Conversely, a quarterback can only be a playmaker if he has time to get the ball to them.


Cassel can't make a consistent throw, even with fifteen seconds.

[milkman]

Conversely, a quarterback can only be a playmaker if he has time to get the ball to them.

Further, however, a bad QB can make a line, good or bad, look worse than it is.

And even further, it still wouldn't matter if Cassel were playing behind the Chiefs O-Line form the Dick years, because he can't make consistent accurate throws beyond 15 yards.

And just for shits and giggles,

Hey Mods, can we change the name here to Okung's sac until the draft?

[Crush]

Okung's Sac has a nice ring to it. I second the notion.

[Saccopoo]

I'm confused too.

Obviously. And hate filled. What's the matter booby? Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Did the Jets draft a LT to replace the other first round LT they had already drafted two years prior? NO.

So, you are happy to back the Carl Peterson/Al Grohl buddy pick of taking a guy who never played left tackle, but rather left guard and projecting that to the next level and think you are getting a future All-Pro? Okie dokie smokey! Or is it just that the guy was taken in the first round, so we never have to spend another first round pick on an offensive lineman as long as he's on the roster? Is that how you look at the roster from an evaluation perspective? That's awesome if you do. Then we don't need a defensive lineman or a linebacker by that logic, correct?

No. They didn't already have a first round pick at LT. So what they did is actually nothing like what you are advocating. They have zero in common.

By Jove! That's exactly what you are doing! You are evaluating talent on where they were picked in the draft versus what they are doing on the field. Awesome sauce!

And in fact what New York did after drafting their first round LT is then, 3 years later, trade up to #5 to pick a QBOTF.

Don't forget that they also drafted a CENTER in the first round - the same first round as when they drafted the LT. They drafted two offensive lineman in the first round - of the same draft!!!! So, is it okay for us to draft another offensive lineman in the first round because it was okay for the Jets to do that? So, theoretically, it would be okay to draft a right tackle or guard in this draft because they took two OL guys in the first round.

We now have our second chance to do EXACTLY WHAT THE JETS DID: Draft a QB at #5 after having acquired a LT in a previous draft. And you're crying like a bitch about us wanting to do that.

No, no. Crying like a bitch would be what you are doing. You are having a wittle bitty temper tantrum, calling me all sorts of names and cap yelling and such. Take a deep breath, hold it in, slowly let it out...it's going to be okay.

You don't have the first god damn clue about what teams have done, or should do.

Hmmm...I think I do. I think it's you that's having a problem with it.

And how's that dumb secondary pick they made doing? What's his name....Revis?

He's doing quite well. And why do you think that was a dumb pick? The guy is one of the best cornerbacks in the league. It really wasn't a dumb pick at all. It was like the Chiefs getting Brandon Flowers in the second round. That was also a very good pick.

Yeah, they totally blew an opportunity to draft OL there, for a silly playmaker in the secondary. What were they thinking, Sack of Testes?

I really don't think that they wanted an offensive lineman with that pick, considering that they took Ferguson and Mangold in the first round of the previous draft. That would have been silly. Especially since they signed as free agents two other offensive linemen who were also first round picks in Alan Faneca and Damien Woody. Imagine - a team with four offensive linemen who were first round picks. I thought that the general consensus was that you don't need first round picks on the offensive line to be a successful team, but yet, people are also suggesting we emulate the Jets as an organization and they DO have four first round picks on the offensive line. Weird.

Holy shit they passed on Joe Staley and Ben Grubbs for a ****ing CB.

I know it's hard to understand, but at that point, the Jets were solid on the offensive line, building through high picks in the draft and on regarded free agents. The core/trenches was built and that allowed them to then use first round selections on other positions. When they selected their potential quarterback of the future in Sanchez (even though they did use a second rounder a few scant years earlier on Kellen Clemons), he was afforded the ability to work behind an established, talented offensive line, which helped him acclimate to the demands and speed of the NFL substantially better than if he were to be placed behind a less talented offensive line. Imagine if Sanchez, as a rookie, had to start behind an offensive line that allowed, say, the second highest number of sacks in the league and was also near the top in penalties and pressures and hits? Wowszer! He'd not have been nearly as effective methinks.

[Saccopoo]

Na i see wat ur saying and its a justified argument. though not for Tebow. I think if we have the chance we should take Clausen. If your looking to take a qb you do it right and select the one with the best chance at becoming a franchise qb. I didnt watch LeFevour but have heard good things. He hasnt done himself any favours by not throwing at the combine though.

You must be an offensive quarterback scout right? I mean, you sound like you know what your talking about and have an in-depth knowledge of what to look for in a professional level quarterback. Were you one of those guys who felt that Jamarcus Russel was the best quarterback in the draft? How about Tim Couch? He went #1. Akili Smith? What made him good enough to go that high in the draft, meaning he had all the potential to be a sure fire, slam dunk NFL QBOTF? Jeff George too! What about him? Do you see those same things in Jimmy Clausen, and that's why he's qualified to be a sure fire first round NFL QBOTF? What made these guys, and Jimmy Clausen, a sure fire NFL quarterback? Did these teams do it right?

How did you feel about Tom Brady when he came out of college? What was it about him that slid him down the board? Why did you feel he was only worth a sixth rounder? How about Joe Montana? What about his game made him a third round project versus a guaranteed first round NFL type of player? Did the teams that took a "flyer" on guys like this, instead of "doing it right" as you say, screw up?

[milkman]

So, you are happy to back the Carl Peterson/Al Grohl buddy pick of taking a guy who never played left tackle, but rather left guard and projecting that to the next level and think you are getting a future All-Pro? Okie dokie smokey! Or is it just that the guy was taken in the first round, so we never have to spend another first round pick on an offensive lineman as long as he's on the roster? Is that how you look at the roster from an evaluation perspective? That's awesome if you do. Then we don't need a defensive lineman or a linebacker by that logic, correct?

No one is suggesting that you never draft a LT in the first round again.

What they are suggesting is that you give that first round LT three years to develop before you make the decision to replace him.

With your line of reasoning, the Jets would have drafted a LT in the first round to repalce D'Brick after his second season, because he'd given up something like 25 sacks in his first two years, about 15 of them in his second season.

And no, the Albert situation and the Cassel situation are not the same.

Cassel has been in the league and learning the QB position for 5 years.

[Saccopoo]

Cassel can't make a consistent throw, even with fifteen seconds.

You can't make that statement. There wasn't once this past season that he had 15 seconds to throw.

[Crush]

You can't make that statement. There wasn't once this past season that he had 15 seconds to throw.


He would blow it, if he did. Cassel sucks and an entire line of Okungs is not going to change that.

[milkman]

You can't make that statement. There wasn't once this past season that he had 15 seconds to throw.

But he can make that statement if he watched Cassel in New England the year before.

Cassel had a nice season there, but it was mostly on short passes and the legs of his receivers.

His accuracy beyond 15 yards was very inconsistent.

And he was also sacked 47 times, more than Tom Brady was sacked in '07 and '09 combined.

[Saccopoo]

Hey Mods, can we change the name here to Okung's sac until the draft?

Only if yours gets changed to "Acerbic Negativist Asshole."

[milkman]

Only if yours gets changed to "Acerbic Negativist Asshole."

Deal!

[Saccopoo]

He would blow it, if he did. Cassel sucks and an entire line of Okungs is not going to change that.

Actually, in looking at the Jets, that might be true. If Cassel sucks, then Sanchez sucks much worse as the stats below indicate:

Cassel:
Yards: 2,924
TDs: 16
Ints: 16
Rating: 69.9

Sanchez:
Yards: 2,444
TDs: 12
Ints: 20
Rating: 63.0

And yet, Sanchez is playing behind a substantially, almost exponentially so, better offensive line than Cassel. So, you are correct. If the quarterback sucks dog nuts, it really doesn't matter how good the offensive line is in front of them.

I concur with your logic, and the numbers prove your point.

[Saccopoo]

But he can make that statement if he watched Cassel in New England the year before.

Cassel had a nice season there, but it was mostly on short passes and the legs of his receivers.

His accuracy beyond 15 yards was very inconsistent.

And he was also sacked 47 times, more than Tom Brady was sacked in '07 and '09 combined.

So, we just need better receivers then. Makes sense as our receivers led the league in drops.

Dez Bryant with our first rounder would make sense.

[milkman]

Actually, in looking at the Jets, that might be true. If Cassel sucks, then Sanchez sucks much worse as the stats below indicate:

Cassel:
Yards: 2,924
TDs: 16
Ints: 16
Rating: 69.9

Sanchez:
Yards: 2,444
TDs: 12
Ints: 20
Rating: 63.0

And yet, Sanchez is playing behind a substantially, almost exponentially so, better offensive line than Cassel. So, you are correct. If the quarterback sucks dog nuts, it really doesn't matter how good the offensive line is in front of them.

I concur with your logic, and the numbers prove your point.

JFC.

You are really an obtuse ****er.

You're comparing a rookie QB with one year of college starting experience to a 5 year vet with one year of NFL starting experience and trying to make some kind of point?

The only point you are making is that you are a dumb****.

But then we already knew that, so the point is wasted.

[milkman]

So, we just need better receivers then. Makes sense as our receivers led the league in drops.

Dez Bryant with our first rounder would make sense.

Since I've actually said that using that #3 pick on Bryant would be better value than almost any potential pick other than Clausen or Berry, yeah that would make sense.

[Saccopoo]

No one is suggesting that you never draft a LT in the first round again.

What they are suggesting is that you give that first round LT three years to develop before you make the decision to replace him.

With your line of reasoning, the Jets would have drafted a LT in the first round to repalce D'Brick after his second season, because he'd given up something like 25 sacks in his first two years, about 15 of them in his second season.

And no, the Albert situation and the Cassel situation are not the same.

Cassel has been in the league and learning the QB position for 5 years.

So, what you are saying is that a guy gets three years in the league, time in, not time started, and if they don't produce by that point it's okay to consider a replacement?

Okay. That's acceptable.

I'm completely off the Okung for the chiefs first round pick and switching my pick to Trent Williams for our new Right Tackle, as I see that as the next biggest position of need for this team, but I want you on the Matt Reynolds bandwagon for the 2011 Draft if Albert struggles again, okay?

[Crush]

Actually, in looking at the Jets, that might be true. If Cassel sucks, then Sanchez sucks much worse as the stats below indicate:

Cassel:
Yards: 2,924
TDs: 16
Ints: 16
Rating: 69.9

Sanchez:
Yards: 2,444
TDs: 12
Ints: 20
Rating: 63.0

And yet, Sanchez is playing behind a substantially, almost exponentially so, better offensive line than Cassel. So, you are correct. If the quarterback sucks dog nuts, it really doesn't matter how good the offensive line is in front of them.

I concur with your logic, and the numbers prove your point.


Sanchez has potential. Cassel is already maxed out.

[milkman]

So, what you are saying is that a guy gets three years in the league, time in, not time started, and if they don't produce by that point it's okay to consider a replacement?

Okay. That's acceptable.

I'm completely off the Okung for the chiefs first round pick and switching my pick to Trent Williams for our new Right Tackle, as I see that as the next biggest position of need for this team, but I want you on the Matt Reynolds bandwagon for the 2011 Draft if Albert struggles again, okay?

I've already said that this is the year for Albert to step up and prove his worth, and that I'd be ready to move on if he doesn't.

[Saccopoo]

You're comparing a rookie QB with one year of college starting experience to a 5 year vet with one year of NFL starting experience and trying to make some kind of point?

But yet it's okay to say that Cassel sucks when he played behind what many people consider to be the worst, or lowest performing offensive line in football and when his receivers led the league in drops?

Sanchez doesn't suck, even though his statistics say he does, because he's a rookie, but he's playing behind what most consider to be the best offensive line in football.

It's really going to be hard to get a consensus on this. Cassel sucks dog nuts, but his stats are substantially better than what many around here think is QBOTF material in Sanchez, because Cassel has an additional year of playing experience, but he plays behind the worst line in football while Sanchez plays behind the best line in football.

So, then, you feel that experience is more important and is a greater determining factor in grading a quarterbacks performance than the quality of players surrounding the quarterback, correct?

[Saccopoo]

Sanchez has potential. Cassel is already maxed out.

And why do you say that? Cassel has only one more year of NFL starting experience than Sanchez, is bigger, faster, and more athletic. I would think that Cassel has a lot more room to grow into the starting QB role, especially if they got him some protection and receiving help.

[Crush]

But yet it's okay to say that Cassel sucks when he played behind what many people consider to be the worst, or lowest performing offensive line in football and when his receivers led the league in drops?

Sanchez doesn't suck, even though his statistics say he does, because he's a rookie, but he's playing behind what most consider to be the best offensive line in football.

It's really going to be hard to get a consensus on this. Cassel sucks dog nuts, but his stats are substantially better than what many around here think is QBOTF material in Sanchez, because Cassel has an additional year of playing experience, but he plays behind the worst line in football while Sanchez plays behind the best line in football.

So, then, you feel that experience is more important and is a greater determining factor in grading a quarterbacks performance than the quality of players surrounding the quarterback, correct?



Sanchez is still in the oven. Cassel is already on the counter, half-eaten, cold, and tastes like a heaping bowl of salt. Plus, he's given you massive diarrhea of epic proportions.

So what do you do? Do you eat what is left of Cassel, even if he tastes shitty and gives you massive diarrhea of epic proportions? Hell no.

The solution is to let Sanchez fully cook in the oven and let him cool off on the counter. More than likely, Sanchez tastes much better and is much healthier for you.

[Crush]

And why do you say that? Cassel has only one more year of NFL starting experience than Sanchez, is bigger, faster, and more athletic. I would think that Cassel has a lot more room to grow into the starting QB role, especially if they got him some protection and receiving help.

The guy can't throw the long pass, even if his life depended on it. Plus, the guy, himself, admits to having anxiety problems. That is a bad combination for a so-called franchise QB.

[Sully]

And why do you say that? Cassel has only one more year of NFL starting experience than Sanchez, is bigger, faster, and more athletic. I would think that Cassel has a lot more room to grow into the starting QB role, especially if they got him some protection and receiving help.

You must be an offensive quarterback scout...

[warrior]

You must be an offensive sack sucker...
:LOL:


Fixed your post---------no charge

[the Talking Can]

Obviously. And hate filled. What's the matter booby? Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?



So, you are happy to back the Carl Peterson/Al Grohl buddy pick of taking a guy who never played left tackle, but rather left guard and projecting that to the next level and think you are getting a future All-Pro? Okie dokie smokey! Or is it just that the guy was taken in the first round, so we never have to spend another first round pick on an offensive lineman as long as he's on the roster? Is that how you look at the roster from an evaluation perspective? That's awesome if you do. Then we don't need a defensive lineman or a linebacker by that logic, correct?



By Jove! That's exactly what you are doing! You are evaluating talent on where they were picked in the draft versus what they are doing on the field. Awesome sauce!



Don't forget that they also drafted a CENTER in the first round - the same first round as when they drafted the LT. They drafted two offensive lineman in the first round - of the same draft!!!! So, is it okay for us to draft another offensive lineman in the first round because it was okay for the Jets to do that? So, theoretically, it would be okay to draft a right tackle or guard in this draft because they took two OL guys in the first round.



No, no. Crying like a bitch would be what you are doing. You are having a wittle bitty temper tantrum, calling me all sorts of names and cap yelling and such. Take a deep breath, hold it in, slowly let it out...it's going to be okay.








in other words, I'm right.....and they drafted mangold #29....what that has to do with anything in regards to our #5 pick is beyond me


the jets drafted a lt, because they didn't have one, then drafted a QB at #5

the chiefs drafted a lt, and now instead of drafting a QB at #5, you want them to draft another LT


you're dumber than shit...the Jets are proof that you're full of it...I only pray we do what the Jets did at #5...DRAFT A QB


but thanks for admitting you were wrong, it was big of you

[Saccopoo]

in other words, I'm right.....and they drafted mangold #29....what that has to do with anything in regards to our #5 pick is beyond me

Okung is my Mangold for this year. Actually, Okung is my LT and Albert is my Mangold.

the jets drafted a lt, because they didn't have one, then drafted a QB at #5

the chiefs drafted a lt, and now instead of drafting a QB at #5, you want them to draft another LT

Nope. They drafted a top flight guard. I want them to draft a top flight left tackle now.

you're dumber than shit...the Jets are proof that you're full of it...I only pray we do what the Jets did at #5...DRAFT A QB

That can be their pick next year when there are quarterbacks in the draft worthy of being a top ten pick.

but thanks for admitting you were wrong

I didn't and I'm not.

[BossChief]

Hey sac, would you replace Ryan Clady if you worked for the Broncos?

He had a bad sophmore year too...how about Joe Thomas after his second year?

Clady gave up about the same sacks as Albert and in Joe Thomas' second year he gave up more than both of em.

get a clue

[milkman]

But yet it's okay to say that Cassel sucks when he played behind what many people consider to be the worst, or lowest performing offensive line in football and when his receivers led the league in drops?

Sanchez doesn't suck, even though his statistics say he does, because he's a rookie, but he's playing behind what most consider to be the best offensive line in football.

It's really going to be hard to get a consensus on this. Cassel sucks dog nuts, but his stats are substantially better than what many around here think is QBOTF material in Sanchez, because Cassel has an additional year of playing experience, but he plays behind the worst line in football while Sanchez plays behind the best line in football.

So, then, you feel that experience is more important and is a greater determining factor in grading a quarterbacks performance than the quality of players surrounding the quarterback, correct?

You really have a hard copmprehending simple concepts, don't you?

Cassel was in the NFL, learning behind one of the best QBs in the league, with the best HC, and what many considered to be a damn good OC.

He had a year as the starter in the NFL.

Sanchez had two years behind a marginally talented college QB, playing for a guy considered a great recruiter, though not necessarily a great coach, and a very good college OC.

He had one year as a starter in college.

Bottom line, the years in the NFL should have prepared Cassel better than the years of college for Sanchez, and it showed.

But by season's end, Sanchez was showing the kind of QB that he can become in time.

He is more talented, throws a better, more accurate deep ball, has a stronger arm, and his teammates seem to love him, which makes him a leader.

One can argue, and since I'm the one here, I will be that one, that Cassel showed at the end of the season, with better protection and a running game to support him, what kind of QB he can become.

Does the word "mediocre" work for you?

[BossChief]

I love it how every conversation with sac nowadays ends when I bring up the fact that a lot of elite LTs struggle in their second year.

He is yet to answer that question and I have asked him it at least 5 times.

Must not like the answer...

[the Talking Can]

Cassel was worse as a QB at the end of the season than Albert was as a LT


in fact, one was getting worse and one was getting better...


so what is saccofbats solution? claim the Jets as a model and then do THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what they ACTUALLY did and draft a LT a #5...


brilliant

[Saccopoo]

I love it how every conversation with sac nowadays ends when I bring up the fact that a lot of elite LTs struggle in their second year.

He is yet to answer that question and I have asked him it at least 5 times.

Must not like the answer...

If you are happy giving Carl/Herm's guy one more year, then that's fine. We can draft Joe Barksdale with our first rounder next year and forgo any chance of a quality quarterback or receiver. Enjoy the safety if it makes you happy and think it's the best long term solution for the team. You've convinced me. I'll never post another pro-offensive line pick for this draft because you've made me see the light that Albert is elite and just needs another year in the system to finally have it click.

[BossChief]

If you are happy giving Carl/Herm's guy one more year, then that's fine. We can draft Joe Barksdale with our first rounder next year and forgo any chance of a quality quarterback or receiver. Enjoy the safety if it makes you happy and think it's the best long term solution for the team. You've convinced me. I'll never post another pro-offensive line pick for this draft because you've made me see the light that Albert is elite and just needs another year in the system to finally have it click.
nice deflection.

I can say that if you are serious about the bolded statement (I know its a joke), the whole planet thanks you and we will be sending a collection plate around so that you can get NFL sunday ticket next year, that should help. j/k, you have to pay for ST yourself.

If a team consistently drafts the best player available, eventually they will have a team of the best players. Right?

We can fix this OL with a quality center and right guard and then in the future we can worry about lg.

Honestly I think Ocallahan is solid and we COULD be set at the position for a few years. He played very well down the stretch. You heard it right, I think the tackles could be set.

I like Okung a little more than I did before the combine, he showed he has elite strength and size, but he didnt bench his way into my pick, thats for sure.

Honestly, I think he will be similar to John Tait in the pros (I said this before mecca, not a slurper) and if we are gonna draft a LT we better go with Jake Long,oops I mean Brian Bulaga. Either way, it will be a HORRIBLE pick because that isnt enough of an upgrade over our current guy to warrant such a high pick. Especially in a draft that has so many outstanding defenders and our defense is garbage.

simple as that

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I'm confused too. Because the corn i shit out last night ended up inside your skull.

Did the Jets draft a LT to replace the other first round LT they had already drafted two years prior? NO.

No. They didn't already have a first round pick at LT. So what they did is actually nothing like what you are advocating. They have zero in common.

And in fact what New York did after drafting their first round LT is then, 3 years later, trade up to #5 to pick a QBOTF.

We now have our second chance to do EXACTLY WHAT THE JETS DID: Draft a QB at #5 after having acquired a LT in a previous draft. And you're crying like a bitch about us wanting to do that.

You don't have the first god damn clue about what teams have done, or should do.


And how's that dumb secondary pick they made doing? What's his name....Revis?

Yeah, they totally blew an opportunity to draft OL there, for a silly playmaker in the secondary. What were they thinking, Sack of Testes?

Holy shit they passed on Joe Staley and Ben Grubbs for a ****ing CB.

Motherfuck yes!

[DeezNutz]

If you are happy giving Carl/Herm's guy one more year, then that's fine. We can draft Joe Barksdale with our first rounder next year and forgo any chance of a quality quarterback or receiver. Enjoy the safety if it makes you happy and think it's the best long term solution for the team. You've convinced me. I'll never post another pro-offensive line pick for this draft because you've made me see the light that Albert is elite and just needs another year in the system to finally have it click.

LMAO. LMAO.

I'm happy going with the more talented player, which is Albert.

But to the subtle bullshit above, yeah, I'd rather roll with a "Herm" guy now (scary1131) than any piece of fucking shit that Pioli and his merry band of urethral sphincters have brought in thus far.

[the Talking Can]

If you are happy giving Carl/Herm's guy one more year, then that's fine. We can draft Joe Barksdale with our first rounder next year and forgo any chance of a quality quarterback or receiver. Enjoy the safety if it makes you happy and think it's the best long term solution for the team. You've convinced me. I'll never post another pro-offensive line pick for this draft because you've made me see the light that Albert is elite and just needs another year in the system to finally have it click.

you could just say, "I'm wrong" and spare us all the drama....

[Nightfyre]

I bet dan williams is the pick at 5, but we will try to tra5e down so we can still pick him.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Bowser]

Tate would make me do the happy dance if he fell to our first pick in the second, and a Clausen pick at 5 wouldn't kill me, either.

Really, this team is so riddled with holes that it's real hard for them to completely swing and miss with the pick, unless it's another fucking left tackle.

[Nightfyre]

I'm preparing myself to accept another half round reach. Dan williams. Some mockers have him going as late as 30. it is just too reminiscent of the wilfork pick.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Bowser]

Berry or Clausen, for my tastes. We need some playmakers in the worst way on this team.

[BossChief]

Honestly, our best option if we arent gonna take Clausen or Berry is to trade down..maybe even twice...a lot of second rounders this year would be mid firsts in a lot of drafts and we need a lot of players. If we could slide back to 15 or so and pick up a couple thirds and a second, we should do that.

The optimum draft for me (again, if we arent gonna take Berry or Clausen) would be to move back to 9 with buffalo and add a third and fourth or a second for compensation and then to move back to 13 or 14 and add another pick or two and then take BPA.

that would give us something like

1 first
3 seconds
2 thirds
2 fourths
3 fifths

to go forward with, that could go a very very long way in a draft like this...

[Saccopoo]

Tate would make me do the happy dance if he fell to our first pick in the second, and a Clausen pick at 5 wouldn't kill me, either.

Really, this team is so riddled with holes that it's real hard for them to completely swing and miss with the pick, unless it's another ****ing left tackle.

What do you mean "another left tackle?"

This team hasn't drafted a tackle since John Tait.

Albert was a guard.

Herm/Carl/Drafturbator projected him as a tackle. The guy never played the position in college.

[DeezNutz]

I bet dan williams is the pick at 5, but we will try to tra5e down so we can still pick him.
Posted via Mobile Device

There is much truthiness in this post.

After the '09 draft, many of us automatically were saying that Cody would be our guy in '10. Williams is the current Cody.

[chiefzilla1501]

What do you mean "another left tackle?"

This team hasn't drafted a tackle since John Tait.

Albert was a guard.

Herm/Carl/Drafturbator projected him as a tackle. The guy never played the position in college.

Umm... yeah. That's why the Chiefs traded up to take him in the top 20. Because Guards are always picked in the top 20.

The guy was projected to play left tackle because he has outstanding footwork. And I've seen nothing that suggests otherwise. No idea if he'll continue to grow into his position, but the important part isn't how he started the season. It was how he continued to improve throughout the season.

[Bowser]

What do you mean "another left tackle?"

This team hasn't drafted a tackle since John Tait.

Albert was a guard.

Herm/Carl/Drafturbator projected him as a tackle. The guy never played the position in college.

Yes, invest two years of the guy at tackle, and then move him back to guard. He had a sophomre slump to be sure, but he's no bust at left tackle. Who gives a shit if he didn't play tackle in college? He's played it in the NFL, and at times, played very well there. Do you move Ryan Clady or Joe Thomas because none of them played like Anthony Munoz in his prime in their second seasons? Hell no you don't. He beasted on Dummervil in the finale. The guy will be fine there going forward.

It would be a monumental fuckup to move him anywhere but left tackle. This team needs IMPACT PLAYERS on both sides of the ball far more than it needs another rookie tackle coming in here, especially one that would be drafted in a position with players that could both fill holes and make an impact all at once in their rookie season. Say NO to Okung or any other tackle you can think of with our first round pick, and possibly even our two seconds. You want a right tackle? Get one in the fourth.

[BossChief]

The guy never played the position in college.

Talking out of your ass again I see...and as usual you are wrong again.

His last few games in college were at LT smart guy.

[milkman]

Talking out of your ass again I see...and as usual you are wrong again.

His last few games in college were at LT smart guy.

Actually, it was only two games and they were in the early/mid part of the season.

[BossChief]

Actually, it was only two games and they were in the early/mid part of the season.

Details, details, point still holds that he did in fact play the position in college...

[Saccopoo]

Umm... yeah. That's why the Chiefs traded up to take him in the top 20. Because Guards are always picked in the top 20.

The guy was projected to play left tackle because he has outstanding footwork. And I've seen nothing that suggests otherwise. No idea if he'll continue to grow into his position, but the important part isn't how he started the season. It was how he continued to improve throughout the season.

His footwork is atrocious. His kick step is horrible. Seriously. He reaches and tries to maul versus work guys out and up. He's a guard, and has never shown anything other than guard skills at the tackle position.

And he didn't improve. The Buffalo game was perhaps his worst showing of the entire season. And Buffalo sucks. Getting owned by the Buffalo defensive line isn't improving, it's digressing.