PDA

View Full Version : General Politics Kucinich a No on Health Care


NewChief
03-12-2010, 01:41 PM
The guy is principled.

http://www.salon.com/news/dennis_kucinich_dohio/index.html?story=/news/feature/2010/03/12/defending_dennis_kucinich_open2010
In defense of Dennis Kucinich
Why I'll be cheering if his vote kills healthcare reform
BY HEATHER MICHON
This post originally appeared on Heather Michon's Open Salon blog.

Reuters/Larry Downing
Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio)
I have to admit: I adore Dennis Kucinich. In the 2008 primaries, my heart belonged to Hillary, but my philosophy was pure Dennis. He was the anti-Barack, the anti-Hillary, way the anti-Edwards... the guy who wouldn't say things he didn't believe just to get a vote; a principled man in a business that really doesn't value principle over pragmatism.

And if he turns out to be the vote that kills health care reform, I will stand up and cheer.

Kucinich is firm in his "no" vote on the final bill, despite what must be fearsome pressure from his Democratic leadership. Bart Stupak and his coalition can probably be bought off with a tweak of language -- and if not, don't believe for a moment that Team Pelosi cares more about women's constitutional rights than they do about being able to say we passed health reform. But what Kucinich wants is what virtually nobody on either end of Pennsylvania Avenue is willing to give: True universal health care.

Markos Moulitsas, founder of the Daily Kos, went off on Kucinich earlier this week on "Countdown." Accusing him of playing a "very Ralph Nader-esque" game of politics, he told fill-in MSNBC host Lawrence O'Donnell that Kucinich "is not elected to grandstand and to give us this ideal utopian society. He is elected to represent the people of his district and he is not representing the uninsured constituents in his district by pretending to take the high ground here."

(Funny, isn't it, how we want our politicians to act on conscience until they deviate from what our particular interest group wants?)

If Kucinich gives the promised "no" vote, Moulitsas fulimated, he should face a Democratic primary challenge for his seat: "What he is doing is undermining this reform. He is making common cause with Republicans. And I think that is a perfect excuse and a rational one for a primary challenge."

Of course, rival blog Firedoglake quickly and gleefully pointed out that the filing deadline for primary challengers had already come and gone in Ohio.

Kucinich is adamant. "This bill represents a giveaway to the insurance industry," he told O'Donnell the night before Moulitsas's diatribe. "Seventy billion dollars a year, and no guarantees of any control over premiums, forcing people to buy private insurance, five consecutive years of double-digit premium increases." It's little more than a thinly-disguised bailout. "I told the president twice in two different meetings that I couldn't support the bill if it didn't have a robust public option and at least if it didn't have something that was going to protect consumers from these rampant premium increases." That doesn't look like it's going to happen, so his vote is likely to be a resounding "no."

Yes, yes and yes.

This "reform" rights a couple of big wrongs, but expands a bunch of new ones, forcing Americans to participate in profit-obsessed system that will continue to sacrifice world-class care in the name of the Almighty (though rapidly deflating) Dollar. President Obama's declaration that we've talked and debated the issue enough is pure, weapon-grade bull-spittal.

Trillions of dollars and millions of lives are being decided by the ticking clock of the 2010 election cycle; by Easter Recess, Members of Congress need to be back in their districts, campaigning and fundraising their little hearts out. All evidence indicates that the composition of Congress after November will not be conducive to health care reform...a shift in the political winds helped immeasurably by the shoddy way the party in power has handed health care reform. So for those who merely want to check off the box marked "Health Reform," who want a reform rather than the best reform, it's now or never.

Dennis Kucinich is on the right side of this issue. Time will tell if he's on the right side of history.

donkhater
03-12-2010, 01:45 PM
Well, he's definately right about the consequences of the legistlation, but his alternative plan has been proven not to work either.

Reaper16
03-12-2010, 01:54 PM
I heart Kucinich.

Mr. Kotter
03-12-2010, 01:59 PM
Cutting off your nose, to spite your face... :rolleyes:

Direckshun
03-12-2010, 02:03 PM
I heart Kucinich.

All due respect, but you're deceiving yourself.

Reaper16
03-12-2010, 02:07 PM
All due respect, but you're deceiving yourself.
In what respect? I think this attempt at reform is ass to the third power.

Taco John
03-12-2010, 02:14 PM
All due respect, but you're deceiving yourself.


By accepting a principled stand that delivering the American people into the open arms of the insurance industry without any protections against abuse is not reform worth doing?

I would say that you're being decieved. This plan is a corporatist bail-out, not a viable long-term health care solution.

Reaper16
03-12-2010, 02:17 PM
http://muddymo.blogspot.com/2010/03/dennis-kucinich-d-oh-mass-murderer.html

Let's tally up the Administration and Congress' track record on Health Care Reform:

[X]Single-Payer dealt away before negotiations even begin
[X]Mandated payments to private insurance companies
[X]IRS is collection agency for private insurance companies
[X]Backroom deals with Big Pharma
[X]Performing Yo-Yo tricks with the Public Option
[X]Double-fisted stroking of Blue Dog Democrats, for no good reason
[X]Rahm calling progressives fucking retards
[X]Buying votes with custom legislation for Nebraska and Louisiana
[X]Double-fisted stroking of Republicans, for no good reason
[X]Losing Ted Kennedy's seat

That seals it for me. I guess Moulitsas is right (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/09/markos-moulitsas-to-kucin_n_492675.html) , if this health care legislation fails, the blood of 40,000 Americans will be on the hands of Dennis Kucinich and only Dennis Kucinich.

Direckshun
03-12-2010, 02:17 PM
In what respect? I think this attempt at reform is ass to the third power.

Because you can improve it. Hell, you can add the public option to this sucker later. So on and so forth.

But FDR and Truman put forth single payer. It didn't work.

So LBJ and Clinton put forth partial single payer for the elderly. It didn't work.

So now we're talking about something even less ambitious than that.

With every major reform failure, the next attempt to deal with it is more conservative.

All you're assuring is that your and Kucinich's goals are going to be LESS attainable in the future, not MORE.

And that's just an assbackwards way of doing things.

But yeah, enjoy that no vote. That'll show 'em.

PunkinDrublic
03-12-2010, 02:24 PM
I heart Kucinich.



Me too I would vote for him over Obama any day.

petegz28
03-12-2010, 02:47 PM
I disagree with Kucinich 99.9% of the time. But he is right in one aspect, this bill will do nothing but inflate costs and enrich insurace companies while pissing all over the Constitution at the same time.

Taco John
03-12-2010, 02:49 PM
<object width="420" height="245" id="msnbc6af6b5" classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=10,0,0,0"><param name="movie" value="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32545640"><param name="FlashVars" value="launch=35788384^256387.99999999997&width=420&height=245"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="wmode" value="opaque" /><embed name="msnbc6af6b5" src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32545640" width="420" height="245" FlashVars="launch=35788384^256387.99999999997&width=420&height=245" allowscriptaccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" wmode="opaque" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed></object><p style="font-size:11px; font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: #999; margin-top: 5px; background: transparent; text-align: center; width: 420px;">Visit msnbc.com for <a style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;" href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com">breaking news</a>, <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032507" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">world news</a>, and <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">news about the economy</a></p>

petegz28
03-12-2010, 02:54 PM
<object width="420" height="245" id="msnbc6af6b5" classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=10,0,0,0"><param name="movie" value="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32545640"><param name="FlashVars" value="launch=35788384^256387.99999999997&width=420&height=245"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="wmode" value="opaque" /><embed name="msnbc6af6b5" src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32545640" width="420" height="245" FlashVars="launch=35788384^256387.99999999997&width=420&height=245" allowscriptaccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" wmode="opaque" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed></object><p style="font-size:11px; font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: #999; margin-top: 5px; background: transparent; text-align: center; width: 420px;">Visit msnbc.com for <a style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;" href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com">breaking news</a>, <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032507" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">world news</a>, and <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">news about the economy</a></p>

I see nothing here but a blank white box.

Saul Good
03-13-2010, 07:35 AM
I see nothing here but a blank white box.

That's what I see when I look at Howard Dean, too.

ClevelandBronco
03-13-2010, 02:09 PM
...Kucinich is adamant. "This bill represents a giveaway to the insurance industry," he told O'Donnell the night before Moulitsas's diatribe. "Seventy billion dollars a year, and no guarantees of any control over premiums, forcing people to buy private insurance, five consecutive years of double-digit premium increases." It's little more than a thinly-disguised bailout.

If I never agree with the man again, I'll stand with him on this point.