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Taco John
03-12-2010, 03:20 PM
Pelosi: Say Goodbye To The Public Option

March 12, 2010, 11:35AM

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi declared the public option dead during a press briefing moments ago.

"We're talking about something that's not going to be part of the legislation," she said.

"I'm quite sad that a public option isn't in there. But it isn't a case of it's not in there because the Senate is whipping against it. It's not in there because they don't have the votes to have it in there."We had it," Pelosi said. "We wanted it. They didn't have it. It's not in the reconciliation."



http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/pelosi-say-goodbye-to-the-public-option.php

Taco John
03-12-2010, 03:20 PM
So basically, it's like Kucinich said... It's just a bailout of the insurance industries, only they've made it look like health care reform.

Not that I wanted the public option in there, but that would at least give me some understanding on how anybody could support this legislation.

Direckshun
03-12-2010, 03:25 PM
Far as I'm reading into the context, it's not going to be a part of the legislation that's going to be voted on in the House next week, which is essentially the Baucus Senate bill. If rubber stamping that bill is what they're planning to do, then she's right, you're not going to be able to change it one word. And that means no public option.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that (a.) the public option will not be a part of the sidecar that the House would later introduce to be passed by reconciliation, and (b.) we all probably know that once this legislation gets passed, a public option is not too far off in the future, especially considering how well it polled even when the entire reform package has been considered unpopular.

Donger
03-12-2010, 03:33 PM
I fail to see why the public option would rear its ugly head again. If people wanted it, it would have been part of the Senate bill, no?

ChiTown
03-12-2010, 03:35 PM
ROFL

What a Clooooster Fooook.

Direckshun
03-12-2010, 03:37 PM
I fail to see why the public option would rear its ugly head again. If people wanted it, it would have been part of the Senate bill, no?

I think the politics of it being tacked onto an unpopular $1 trillion behemoth are different than when it's pushed by itself, which is what I think is going to happen in a few years time at the most.

Taco John
03-12-2010, 03:40 PM
I think the politics of it being tacked onto an unpopular $1 trillion behemoth are different than when it's pushed by itself, which is what I think is going to happen in a few years time at the most.

Behind what political wind? ROFL:doh!:

CoMoChief
03-12-2010, 03:54 PM
Well the good thing is, the more this thing is clusterfucked, the more people are going to get tired of it, Obama's approval rating will drop more, the longer they play around with this bill that nobody wants, the less chance this thing gets passed. Democrats are trying to pass things under the table, behind closed doors, using methods that aren't supposed to be for this kind of legislation, and they're even trying to change the system to try and jam this through. The more they try, the more they're failing IMO.

oldandslow
03-12-2010, 05:00 PM
It is the only thing left wingers like me supported in the bill...as of now I join Pete, Patty and Honestchief against subsidies for insurance companies.

Banks, oil companies, and now big insurance.

One of the worst corporatists we have ever elected.

I was a fool.

Direckshun
03-12-2010, 05:12 PM
Behind what political wind? ROFL:doh!:

You know exactly how fast the wind can change.

orange
03-12-2010, 05:58 PM
HR 4789 and The Public Option: The Way Forward


Posted: March 12, 2010 01:42 PM
Rep. Alan Grayson
Congressman Alan Grayson represents Central Florida (FL-8).

Health care reform -- here's where we are. The House of Representatives is about to vote on a Senate bill without a public option. It looks like the reconciliation amendment will not have a public option. The House bill had a public option, but once the House passes the Senate bill, that's history.

Which is why I introduced H.R. 4789, the Public Option Act. This simple four-page bill lets any American buy into Medicare at cost. You want it, you pay for it, you're in. It adds nothing to the deficit; you pay what it costs.

Let's face it. Health insurance companies charge as much money as possible, and they provide as little care as possible. The difference is called profit. You can't blame them for it; that's what a corporation does. Birds got to fly, fish got to swim, health insurers got to rip you off. And if you get really expensive, they've got to pull the plug on you. So for those of us who would like to stay alive, we need a public option.

In many areas of the country, one or two insurers have over 80% of the market. They can charge anything they want. And when you get sick, they can flip the bird at you. So we need a public option.

And they face no real competition because it costs billions of dollars just to set up a national health care network. In fact, the only one that's nationwide is . . . Medicare. And we limit that to one-eight of the population. It's like saying that only seniors can drive on federal highways. We really need a public option.

And to the right-wing loons who call it socialism, we say, "if you want to be a slave to the insurance companies, that's fine. If you want 30% of your premiums to go to 'administrative costs' and billion-dollar bonuses for insurance CEOs who figure out new and creative ways to deny you the care you need to stay healthy and alive, that's fine. But don't you try to dictate to me that I can't have a public option!"

And there is a way left to get it. By insisting on a vote on H.R. 4789. Three votes on health care, not two. The Senate bill, the reconciliation amendments, and the Public Option Act.

We got 50 co-sponsors for this bill in two days. Including five powerful committee chairman. But we need more.

Sign our Petition at WeWantMedicare.com.

Call. Write. Visit. Do whatever you can do to get you Congressman to co-sponsor this bill, and push it to a vote. Right now, before it's too late.

Let's do it!

Update (4:30 pm): We're up to 64 cosponsors on HR 4789! Call your member of Congress NOW at (202) 225-3121.

HonestChieffan
03-12-2010, 07:31 PM
Grayson is the pet loon of the left. We should all hope he gets a ton of exposure.

BucEyedPea
03-12-2010, 07:38 PM
Let's face it. Health insurance companies charge as much money as possible, and they provide as little care as possible.

This is such a LIE! The govt is the biggest insurer and they deny care too.

And sorry but anyone not calling it socialism is the LOON!

BTW medicare is broke. Doctors are even withdrawing. Wonder how much care that will result in.

Mr. Kotter
03-12-2010, 09:55 PM
This is such a LIE! The govt is the biggest insurer and they deny care too.

And sorry but anyone not calling it socialism is the LOON!

BTW medicare is broke. Doctors are even withdrawing. Wonder how much care that will result in.

Your friend in the industry must give one helluva a "back rub" for you to believe his propaganda with such passion... :rolleyes:

If you HAVE to accept government care, you shouldn't expect a Cadillac plan. OTOH, if you PAY decent money for "coverage" (a new Chevy plan) but insurance companies flinch at paying for reasonable procedures and care (a used Chrysler plan)....you have a right to bitch.

orange
03-12-2010, 10:09 PM
Grayson is the pet loon of the left. We should all hope he gets a ton of exposure.

64 cosponsors in two days. You're getting your wish!

petegz28
03-12-2010, 10:12 PM
Your friend in the industry must give one helluva a "back rub" for you to believe his propaganda with such passion... :rolleyes:

If you HAVE to accept government care, you shouldn't expect a Cadillac plan. OTOH, if you PAY decent money for "coverage" (a new Chevy plan) but insurance companies flinch at paying for reasonable procedures and care (a used Chrysler plan)....you have a right to bitch.

I've never had any issues with my insurance not wanting to pay or whatever. That goes for medical and dental. Not one.

Mr. Kotter
03-12-2010, 10:29 PM
I've never had any issues with my insurance not wanting to pay or whatever. That goes for medical and dental. Not one.

Wait...until you are a bit older; and/or you have children. They will try to bend you over. Big time. :shake:

:

Taco John
03-13-2010, 01:33 AM
Your friend in the industry must give one helluva a "back rub" for you to believe his propaganda with such passion... :rolleyes:


You're a despicable human being.

Saul Good
03-13-2010, 09:33 AM
I'm against the whole monstrosity. That said, if you mandate that people MUST purchase health insurance, there should be a public option. Otherwise, it's nothing but a handout to these "villainous" insurance companies. I wish I was such a villain that laws were passed mandating that people purchase products from me. Where do I sign up for that?

patteeu
03-13-2010, 10:58 AM
Behind what political wind? ROFL:doh!:

Quit laughing. The debate on health care is over.

DJ's left nut
03-13-2010, 11:01 AM
Eh, just wait until we pass it, then we can find out what's in it.

Right?

Chief Henry
03-13-2010, 11:09 AM
Your friend in the industry must give one helluva a "back rub" for you to believe his propaganda with such passion... :rolleyes:

If you HAVE to accept government care, you shouldn't expect a Cadillac plan. OTOH, if you PAY decent money for "coverage" (a new Chevy plan) but insurance companies flinch at paying for reasonable procedures and care (a used Chrysler plan)....you have a right to bitch.

You don't think medicare denies claims or procedures ?

patteeu
03-13-2010, 11:33 AM
I've never had any issues with my insurance not wanting to pay or whatever. That goes for medical and dental. Not one.

Wait...until you are a bit older; and/or you have children. They will try to bend you over. Big time. :shake:

:

I presume I'm older and I know I've had children. I've also had plenty of high-dollar medical care in my near family. I've had disputes with my family's insurance companies on several occasions but I've never been unable to resolve the issue to my satisfaction. These disputes have involved:

simple clerical errors
the doctor's office failing to bill correctly
the insurance company processing a claim wrong
misunderstanding on my part about what should be covered
a question about whether or not the out-of-network service was available in-network (the answer determining the rate at which the claim would be paid)

I haven't won my arguments every time, but in the few where I was forced to admit that I was wrong and the insurance company was right, I was satisfied that the result was correct.

Right now a close family member is involved in a dispute with medicare over a denial, btw. I have no doubt that this will also be resolved satisfactorily, but it just goes to show that the same problems exist there.

If Mr. Kotter is having "big time" problems, then he's either not doing something right or he needs to find a different insurance company. My money is on the former.

wazu
03-13-2010, 11:41 AM
I fail to see why the public option would rear its ugly head again. If people wanted it, it would have been part of the Senate bill, no?

So the answer is instead to crush the life out of insurance companies with ridiculous regulation designed to ensure that turning a profit is impossible. Bankruptcy, bail-outs, etc until either the government just buys them up and operates at a loss with taxpayer money, or starts their own "public option" to finish them off using predatory pricing to ensure a government monopoly.

The End

Mr. Kotter
03-13-2010, 01:28 PM
You don't think medicare denies claims or procedures ?

Of course they do...but at least with Medicare, you get what you pay for.

Mr. Kotter
03-13-2010, 01:33 PM
I presume I'm older and I know I've had children. I've also had plenty of high-dollar medical care in my near family. I've had disputes with my family's insurance companies on several occasions but I've never been unable to resolve the issue to my satisfaction. These disputes have involved:

simple clerical errors
the doctor's office failing to bill correctly
the insurance company processing a claim wrong
misunderstanding on my part about what should be covered
a question about whether or not the out-of-network service was available in-network (the answer determining the rate at which the claim would be paid)

I haven't won my arguments every time, but in the few where I was forced to admit that I was wrong and the insurance company was right, I was satisfied that the result was correct.

Right now a close family member is involved in a dispute with medicare over a denial, btw. I have no doubt that this will also be resolved satisfactorily, but it just goes to show that the same problems exist there.

If Mr. Kotter is having "big time" problems, then he's either not doing something right or he needs to find a different insurance company. My money is on the former.

I consider time, effort, and energy I have to expend doing precisely what you say you've done, that I've also done....to be the bending over part. By bending over, I mean forcing consumers to fight every significant claim tooth and nail, hoping that most consumers (unlike you or I) will surrender and NOT fight them...and they can keep such "mistakes" as additional profits. It is a deliberate and unethical practice whose pattern and prevalance make such "mistakes" not mistakes....but attempts to defraud and deny rightful coverage to pocket unethical "profits." Frankly, our district DOES need a different company, and is currently shopping for one--the 4th in 15 years, because most of them operate in the same profit first--coverage and consumers last fashion.

stevieray
03-13-2010, 01:35 PM
88th in profits...burn em at the stake!

Mr. Kotter
03-13-2010, 01:38 PM
88th in profits.

It's a smoke-and-mirrors "figure"---you are naive to believe it, Stevie.

It's a figure arrived at by not counting generous bonuses, inflated salariers, extravagant "training" and "incentives" and other alleged "costs" that are figured into expenses (that have next to nothing to do with quality of care delivered)...that are nothing more than hidden profits. Yep, healthcare for average Americans funding a jet set lifestyle for the rich and famous. And yet, some of us are more than happy to bend over.

Chief Henry
03-13-2010, 01:55 PM
Of course they do...but at least with Medicare, you get what you pay for.




WHat exactly will we get with O'care ? Will we get what we pay for ?

Saul Good
03-13-2010, 01:59 PM
It's a smoke-and-mirrors "figure"---you are naive to believe it, Stevie.

It's a figure arrived at by not counting generous bonuses, inflated salariers, extravagant "training" and "incentives" and other alleged "costs" that are figured into expenses (that have next to nothing to do with quality of care delivered)...that are nothing more than hidden profits. Yep, healthcare for average Americans funding a jet set lifestyle for the rich and famous. And yet, some of us are more than happy to bend over.

You'd think that the other industries, especially the 87 above health care, would give their executives bonuses, high salaries, etc. I guess it's only health insurers that do these things.

patteeu
03-13-2010, 02:03 PM
I consider time, effort, and energy I have to expend doing precisely what you say you've done, that I've also done....to be the bending over part. By bending over, I mean forcing consumers to fight every significant claim tooth and nail, hoping that most consumers (unlike you or I) will surrender and NOT fight them...and they can keep such "mistakes" as additional profits. It is a deliberate and unethical practice whose pattern and prevalance make such "mistakes" not mistakes....but attempts to defraud and deny rightful coverage to pocket unethical "profits." Frankly, our district DOES need a different company, and is currently shopping for one--the 4th in 15 years, because most of them operate in the same profit first--coverage and consumers last fashion.

Your whining is the opposite of refreshing. There are going to be errors (not intentional abuses, mind you) in any large bureaucratic organization (including Medicare). I think there are biases in place that result in most errors working in the favor of the insurance provider leaving it up to the consumer to be a watchdog, but that makes a lot of sense to me. The consumer has much more incentive to do the last mile of quality assurance than some cubicle-bound drone just trying to make it to quitting time. I guess I just don't expect the same kind of perfection that you do. But I've got news for you. The grass isn't any greener on the other side of the fence.

orange
03-13-2010, 02:10 PM
88th in profits...burn em at the stake!

It's a smoke-and-mirrors "figure"---you are naive to believe it, Stevie.


You'd think that the other industries, especially the 87 above health care, would give their executives bonuses, high salaries, etc. I guess it's only health insurers that do these things.

Something bizarre just happened within the last two minutes. I logged onto that site to have a look at those numbers:

http://biz.yahoo.com/p/sum_qpmd.html

There was "Health Care Plans" at 3.4% net profit margin, 88th I presume, just above Property and Casualty Insurance.
("And a different breakdown by Yahoo! Finance ranked the 3.4 percent profit margin for health care plans as 88th among 215 industries." http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100220/NEWS01/2200368/Health-insurers-defend-profits)


I scrolled up to have a look at the top, and then I scrolled back down to click the "More info" button - and "Health Care Plans" wasn't there anymore. :eek:

After a little looking around, I found it at 4.4% net profit margin, 13 places higher.

This just means that they just updated it - nothing very cryptic for the site except the timing.

...

But for the "Health Care Plan" industry, it means their net profit margin just went up 33% in the last period*.

Explain, please. Especially you Beck fans.

*whatever period Yahoo is using.

ClevelandBronco
03-13-2010, 02:17 PM
Something bizarre just happened within the last two minutes. I logged onto that site to have a look at those numbers:

http://biz.yahoo.com/p/sum_qpmd.html

There was "Health Care Plans" at 3.4% net profit margin, 88th I presume, just above Property and Casualty Insurance.
("And a different breakdown by Yahoo! Finance ranked the 3.4 percent profit margin for health care plans as 88th among 215 industries." http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100220/NEWS01/2200368/Health-insurers-defend-profits)


I scrolled up to have a look at the top, and then I scrolled back down to click the "More info" button - and "Health Care Plans" wasn't there anymore. :eek:

After a little looking around, I found it at 4.4% net profit margin, 13 places higher.

This just means that they just updated it - nothing very cryptic for the site except the timing.

...

But for the "Health Care Plan" industry, it means their net profit margin just went up 33% in the last period*.

Explain, please. Especially you Beck fans.

*whatever period Yahoo is using.

I'm not sure what you're asking for an explanation for, but if it's the 33% increase it's because 4.4 is 33% higher than 3.4.

orange
03-13-2010, 02:18 PM
I'm not sure what you're asking for an explanation for,

Where did they get all that extra money?

In a year which led to huge premium increases this year?


but if it's the 33% increase it's because 4.4 is 33% higher than 3.4.

That's my own top-of-the-head calculation - it's not on the site at all - but thanks for acknowledging that it's right.

ClevelandBronco
03-13-2010, 02:26 PM
Where did they get all that extra money?

The cynic in me thinks that they may have realized some savings from not having to lobby further against the turd of a health care "reform" bill that's left.

That and they just said "no" to all those claims from Kotter's district.

go bowe
03-13-2010, 06:06 PM
88th in profits...burn em at the stake!88th???

that sounds like the chiefs offense... :deevee: :deevee: :deevee:

Otter
03-14-2010, 04:36 AM
Your friend in the industry must give one helluva a "back rub" for you to believe his propaganda with such passion... :rolleyes:

If you HAVE to accept government care, you shouldn't expect a Cadillac plan. OTOH, if you PAY decent money for "coverage" (a new Chevy plan) but insurance companies flinch at paying for reasonable procedures and care (a used Chrysler plan)....you have a right to bitch.

The more I read what you have to say the less I like you.

Mr. Kotter
03-14-2010, 07:47 AM
The more I read what you have to say the less I like you.

Uncomfortable truths have a way of creating consternation and resentment--no matter their truth.

Otter
03-14-2010, 10:10 AM
Uncomfortable truths have a way of creating consternation and resentment--no matter their truth.

I'd call it illusion and delusion but whatever.

I have no intention of getting into a pissing match for the record. I'm done.

go bowe
03-14-2010, 02:43 PM
Uncomfortable truths have a way of creating consternation and resentment--no matter their truth.i have the same problem with my old pants...

go bowe
03-14-2010, 02:44 PM
I'd call it illusion and delusion but whatever.

I have no intention of getting into a pissing match for the record. I'm done.aw, c'mon...

pissing matches are a venerable tradition around these parts...

and entertaining too... :p :p :p