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View Full Version : Cardinals Phillies discuss Howard for Pujols deal


pr_capone
03-14-2010, 04:07 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4994845


It's the sort of thing that is much more likely to happen in fantasy baseball than in real life, but according to sources, an idea has been kicked around the Phillies' organization internally, with discussions about proposing a swap of slugger Ryan Howard for St. Louis superstar Albert Pujols.

It's not fully clear whether the Phillies actually have approached the Cardinals with the idea, and even if St. Louis were to seriously consider such an offer, executives with the Cardinals would have to swallow very hard before dealing Pujols, a player widely regarded as the best in the sport.

Phillies general manager Ruben Amaro flatly denied that the internal discussions have taken place. "Lies," he said. "That's a lie. I don't know who you're talking to, but that's a lie."

The talk may well echo, in the end, another blockbuster deal that was discussed but never consummated many years ago: Executives of the Red Sox and Yankees once famously discussed a trade of Ted Williams for Joe DiMaggio.

The logic for a Howard for Pujols swap, as discussed within the Phillies' organization, could fall along these lines: Pujols, 30 years old, is eligible for free agency after the 2011 season, and early conversations about a contract extension have not led to any long-term deal. The expectation within baseball is that Pujols may ask for a deal that would rival, in annual value, the record-setting 10-year, $275 million deal that Alex Rodriguez negotiated with the Yankees in fall 2007.

If the Cardinals were to decide, at any point, that they could not afford to sign Pujols, they could consider dealing him, in the way the Toronto Blue Jays traded Roy Halladay, or the Minnesota Twins traded Johan Santana.

And Howard, who is just a couple of months older than Pujols, would not be a bad alternative. In the past four seasons, Howard has hit 198 homers and accumulated 572 RBIs, and has finished in the top five of the NL MVP race.

Here's the public relations kicker: Howard was born in St. Louis, and is regarded as a hometown kid in that city.

Howard is under contract for each of the next two seasons as well -- for $19 million in 2010 and $20 million in 2011 -- as part of a three-year deal he signed last year. He would be more expensive than Pujols in each of the next two seasons, but on the other hand, he probably will not be as expensive to sign as Pujols in his next contract.

Pujols is a right-handed hitter who would help to balance a Philadelphia lineup that has been very left-handed, and he is regarded as a superior first baseman, as well as being the best hitter in the sport.

Pat Gillick, who preceded Amaro as general manager and is currently serving as an adviser, knows something about making out-of-the-box blockbusters.

Twenty years ago, as general manager of the Blue Jays, he stunned the baseball world by trading stars Tony Fernandez and Fred McGriff to the San Diego Padres for Joe Carter and Roberto Alomar.

Buster Olney is a senior writer at ESPN The Magazine.

Buck
03-14-2010, 04:10 PM
Why would the Cards do this?

Ralphy Boy
03-14-2010, 04:11 PM
They would need to throw in Cole Hamels too.

OnTheWarpath58
03-14-2010, 04:11 PM
Why would the Cards do this?

They wouldn't.

BigRedChief
03-14-2010, 04:11 PM
Repost
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=221186&page=2

Reaper16
03-14-2010, 04:14 PM
LMAO No way the Cards do this for any reason. No return would be high enough.

crispystl420
03-14-2010, 04:14 PM
If the cards deal Pujols they're f'ing crazy

-King-
03-14-2010, 04:16 PM
LMAO No way the Cards do this for any reason. No return would be high enough.

This.

DJ's left nut
03-14-2010, 04:18 PM
Yup. The Cardinals are going to trade the best hitter in baseball for a fatter, older, worse version of him so they can save $4-5 million/season (and lose that much and more in ticket sales). Oh yeah, they'll then have to figure out if they could even get Howard signed. And with Howard's body type, I'm sure he'll age well.

I often think our FO is a little on the retarded side, but NOBODY is that retarded.

The interwebs should reprimand ESPN for printing such tripe. You could post that on the Onion and people would call it a stretch. JFC.

pr_capone
03-14-2010, 04:20 PM
Repost
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=221186&page=2

The link posted does not mention anything about howard. at least not on page 2.

BigRedChief
03-14-2010, 04:22 PM
The link posted does not mention anything about howard. at least not on page 2.ESPN article is post #65

Saul Good
03-14-2010, 04:59 PM
As long as we're talking about something that will never happen, who would get the better end of a Greinke for Pujols trade (salaries notwithstanding)?

BigRedChief
03-14-2010, 05:05 PM
As long as we're talking about something that will never happen, who would get the better end of a Greinke for Pujols trade (salaries notwithstanding)?ROFL
maybe the best right handed hitter of all time who plays every day and is a gold glove at his position, no off the field issues vs a pitcher who has talent but only one year of living up to that potential and who quit on his team and almost quit baseball?

Not even close.

Reaper16
03-14-2010, 05:05 PM
As long as we're talking about something that will never happen, who would get the better end of a Greinke for Pujols trade (salaries notwithstanding)?
If I could only choose one I'm picking Pujols. And I fucking hate the Cards too.

DJ's left nut
03-14-2010, 05:06 PM
The Royals and it's not even close. I'd say the same thing about Lincecum or Felix Hernandez.

You don't trade an elite hitter for an elite pitcher.

Greinke could throw 108 pitches, get a little weak in his legs, drag his plant leg a little bit, open his left shoulder, over-rotate and end his career in one fell swoop. All it takes is one pitch when your mechanics are a little out of whack to end the whole thing.

It takes so little to destroy a pitcher's arm that there's no way you deal a hitter for a pitcher. Maybe you'd do it over a short term window (2-3 years), but you're talking a trade with a 6-8 year outlook. In that time, if Greinke were to put up seasons exactly like 2009 every single season, you likely only break even.

When you throw in the massively increased risk involved with a pitcher, you don't even bother responding. The next thing Moore should hear is a simple 'click' followed by a dial tone.

Reaper16
03-14-2010, 05:06 PM
ROFL
maybe the best right handed hitter of all time who plays every day and is a gold glove at his position, no off the field issues vs a pitcher who has talent but only one year of living up to that potential and who quit on his team and almost quit baseball?

Not even close.
Let the record show that while I agree with Pujols >> Greinke, fuck you still for phrasing it like a <s>complete fuckhole</s> <s></s>typical Cardinals fan.

Pasta Giant Meatball
03-14-2010, 05:06 PM
As long as we're talking about something that will never happen, who would get the better end of a Greinke for Pujols trade (salaries notwithstanding)?

You serious?

BigRedChief
03-14-2010, 05:10 PM
Let the record show that while I agree with Pujols >> Greinke, **** you still for phrasing it like a <S>complete ****hole</S> <S></S>typical Cardinals fan.What did I say that wasn't true?

crispystl420
03-14-2010, 05:13 PM
I always considered the Cards front office to be pretty competent personally, and I'm a Royals fan.

Saul Good
03-14-2010, 05:14 PM
You serious?

Why not? Grienke is 4 years younger. Would you rather have the best pitcher in baseball or the best hitter? (Not saying that Grienke necessarily is the best pitcher, but he sure was last year.) Pujols is in the wrong side of 30 now, too.

DJ's left nut
03-14-2010, 05:14 PM
I always considered the Cards front office to be pretty competent personally, and I'm a Royals fan.

<-----considers saying something about standards; decides he doesn't care.

Reaper16
03-14-2010, 05:15 PM
What did I say that wasn't true?
I pray for Islamist extremists to firebomb St. Louis because of people like you. Baseball logic is more than enough to demonstrate why Pujols has considerably greater value than Greinke. But you throw on this slanted-language "Greinke is a quitter" shit.

crispystl420
03-14-2010, 05:16 PM
<-----considers saying something about standards; decides he doesn't care.

Well, we are all Chiefs fans so standards don't apply on this board lol.

DJ's left nut
03-14-2010, 05:16 PM
I pray for Islamist extremists to firebomb St. Louis because of people like you. Baseball logic is more than enough to demonstrate why Pujols has considerably greater value than Greinke. But you throw on this slanted-language "Greinke is a quitter" shit.

Look outside of Kansas City.

You'll find that it isn't just STL that has concerns about Greinke's passion for the game and long-term viability.

I agree, the analysis isn't necessary, but it's absolutely a concern when discussing trade values.

BigRedChief
03-14-2010, 05:16 PM
I always considered the Cards front office to be pretty competent personally, and I'm a Royals fan.I've alwayas had respect for you Royals fans. To stay loyal to your team despite losing 100 games for years. Major props. You guys deserve a winner. You earned it a long time ago as fans. :thumb:

crispystl420
03-14-2010, 05:17 PM
<-----considers saying something about standards; decides he doesn't care.

I will say though I am not a Cardinals hater. If.... actually I should say when the Royals fall out of the race I pull for the Cards.

BigRedChief
03-14-2010, 05:18 PM
I pray for Islamist extremists to firebomb St. Louis because of people like you. Baseball logic is more than enough to demonstrate why Pujols has considerably greater value than Greinke. But you throw on this slanted-language "Greinke is a quitter" shit.You need to pay attention more. I'm not a hater. I don't live in St. Louis, I grew up in Springfield mo.

Reaper16
03-14-2010, 05:19 PM
You need to pay attention more. I'm not a hater. I don't live in St. Louis, I grew up in Springfield mo.
I don't want to burn you, I want to burn the town that hosts your team.

Saul Good
03-14-2010, 05:19 PM
On an unrelated note, Bob Knight is wearing a cardinals shirt on ESPN right now.

DJ's left nut
03-14-2010, 05:20 PM
I don't want to burn you, I want to burn the town that hosts your team.

They'd just contract the Royals and move the Redbirds a few miles West.

No big loss...

BigRedChief
03-14-2010, 05:20 PM
I don't want to burn you, I want to burn the town that hosts your team.As long as Bush Stadium is spared....:LOL:

Reaper16
03-14-2010, 05:21 PM
They'd just contract the Royals and move the Redbirds a few miles West.

No big loss...
Oh God. The inner tumult I would feel would spiral into the largest murderous rampage in history.

BigRedChief
03-14-2010, 05:21 PM
On an unrelated note, Bob Knight is wearing a cardinals shirt on ESPN right now.He's been a Cardinals fan since he was a kid. Goes to games all the time, he's a season ticket holder and friends with Larussa.

crispystl420
03-14-2010, 05:22 PM
I've alwayas had respect for you Royals fans. To stay loyal to your team despite losing 100 games for years. Major props. You guys deserve a winner. You earned it a long time ago as fans. :thumb:

Bandwagon fans suck. I in turn have major respect for you remaining loyal to the Chiefs, as I have I over the years. It's not about who's good it's about who YOUR team is. (Although it would be nice if the chiefs didn't blow so bad)

Reaper16
03-14-2010, 05:22 PM
On an unrelated note, Bob Knight is wearing a cardinals shirt on ESPN right now.
On a related note, with this thread in mind, I yelled FUCK YOU BOB KNIGHT at my TV when I noticed that.

Buck
03-14-2010, 05:25 PM
My sources are telling me that the Padres are internally discussing a David Eckstein for Albert Pujols trade. They may throw in Matt Stairs to sweeten the pot.

We'll see if the Cards bite.

Reaper16
03-14-2010, 05:25 PM
My sources are telling me that the Padres are internally discussing a David Eckstein for Albert Pujols trade. They may throw in Matt Stairs to sweeten the pot.

We'll see if the Cards bite.
How long has Matt Stairs been a Padre?

Buck
03-14-2010, 05:26 PM
How long has Matt Stairs been a Padre?

Since probably mid-January.

KChiefs1
03-14-2010, 05:27 PM
I'm now hearing that the Cards would part with Pujols straight up for Zach Greinke.

BigMeatballDave
03-14-2010, 05:46 PM
Yup. The Cardinals are going to trade the best hitter in baseball for a fatter, older, worse version of himHoward is only 2 months older.
Posted via Mobile Device

chief52
03-14-2010, 05:50 PM
This has absolutely zero credibility...

Ralphy Boy
03-14-2010, 05:50 PM
On an unrelated note, Bob Knight is wearing a cardinals shirt on ESPN right now.

Anyone can say whatever they want about Knight, but he and Parcell's are good friends of Larussa. Three men who are arguably among the greatest to ever coach in their respective position. It's really kind of cool if you think about it.

Yes I'm a Cards fan, lifelong and proud of it. Royals fans who hate on the Cards are typically just so blinded by their own jealousy that they can't appreciate their ability to consistently win without being at the top of the league in payroll.

I feel sorry for Royals fans, the "true fans". I've been to more than a few Cards/Royals games in KC and you should be embarrassed at how well your "other fans" support your team. There is no way the stadium should be so filled with fans in red.

Reaper16
03-14-2010, 06:16 PM
Anyone can say whatever they want about Knight, but he and Parcell's are good friends of Larussa. Three men who are arguably among the greatest to ever coach in their respective position. It's really kind of cool if you think about it.

Yes I'm a Cards fan, lifelong and proud of it. Royals fans who hate on the Cards are typically just so blinded by their own jealousy that they can't appreciate their ability to consistently win without being at the top of the league in payroll.

I feel sorry for Royals fans, the "true fans". I've been to more than a few Cards/Royals games in KC and you should be embarrassed at how well your "other fans" support your team. There is no way the stadium should be so filled with fans in red.
There aren't that many Royals fans anymore. Some of the biggest fans don't spend money on the team anymore because of the utter pointlessness of it. The Chiefs are suffering from a similar protest/malaise. Also I will punch you into paralysis.

DJ's left nut
03-14-2010, 06:23 PM
Howard is only 2 months older.
Posted via Mobile Device

True, but Albert had won an MVP, finished in the top 4 in MVP voting 5 times, hit 200 HRs, accumulated 1000 hits (400+ for extra bases) and drove in 600 runs before Ryan howard had amassed 400 at-bats.

It's mostly a novelty that Howard is actually older than Pujols despite a career that pales in comparison, but it's still true. In light of their career accomplishments (and the fact that Howard is a big fatass), it stands to reason that Howards 'baseball' age is a damn sight older than Pujols as well. Better players will age better, fat people will age worse.

This conversation goes well beyond stupid.

Demonpenz
03-14-2010, 07:18 PM
I wouldn't be surprised with the Pujols steriods issue.

BigRedChief
03-14-2010, 07:32 PM
I wouldn't be surprised with the Pujols steriods issue.If it hasn't come out by now it never will come out. Besides, look at his build, he hasn't really changed. It may be more likely he shaved a couple of years off his age. That was more commonplace in DR.

raybec 4
03-14-2010, 10:29 PM
True, but Albert had won an MVP, finished in the top 4 in MVP voting 5 times, hit 200 HRs, accumulated 1000 hits (400+ for extra bases) and drove in 600 runs before Ryan howard had amassed 400 at-bats.

It's mostly a novelty that Howard is actually older than Pujols despite a career that pales in comparison, but it's still true. In light of their career accomplishments (and the fact that Howard is a big fatass), it stands to reason that Howards 'baseball' age is a damn sight older than Pujols as well. Better players will age better, fat people will age worse.

This conversation goes well beyond stupid.

ROFL I love how the good solid data is backed up by fat people age worse.