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View Full Version : Obama Kucinich to Switch Health Vote to ‘Yes’ After Lobbying by Obama


petegz28
03-17-2010, 08:33 AM
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-17/kucinich-to-switch-health-vote-to-yes-after-lobbying-by-obama.html



We are one step closer to being bent over and pounded for higher costs and higher unemployment.

The Mad Crapper
03-17-2010, 12:09 PM
Bribes, scam, ruse.

Ha ha! Suckers!

http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Obama_Coin_ExactChange_160.gif

Hopey Change™

alanm
03-17-2010, 12:19 PM
Did you REALLY think he was going to vote no? :spock:
And all it took was a ride on Airforce 1 amongst other bribes under the table.

Direckshun
03-17-2010, 12:50 PM
LOL

But I thought Kucinich was the voice of Liberal Purism!

Yes, it seems Democrats are slowly coming around to the understanding that defeating this bill only slows down better reform in the future, rather than improves it.

It's hilarious that it's taken them this long.

petegz28
03-17-2010, 12:51 PM
LOL

But I thought Kucinich was the voice of Liberal Purism!

Yes, it seems Democrats are slowly coming around to the understanding that defeating this bill only slows down better reform in the future, rather than improves it.

It's hilarious that it's taken them this long.

Yeah. Higher premiums is better for everyone.

SNR
03-17-2010, 12:55 PM
LOL

But I thought Kucinich was the voice of Liberal Purism!

Yes, it seems Democrats are slowly coming around to the understanding that defeating this bill only slows down better reform in the future, rather than improves it.

It's hilarious that it's taken them this long."better reform in the future"

You mean nationalized healthcare?

petegz28
03-17-2010, 12:56 PM
"better reform in the future"

You mean nationalized healthcare?

It isn't even that, SNR. It is "mandated health care". The only thing national about it is the law that mandates you buy health insurance.

Direckshun
03-17-2010, 12:58 PM
Yeah. Higher premiums is better for everyone.

If my pants were pulled down this aggressively I'd probably try to change the subject too.

I was told that Kucinich was the voice of liberal purism, and that the principled opposition of Dennis P. Kucinich was surely a signal to all liberals that they have strayed too far from the pack.

Direckshun
03-17-2010, 12:59 PM
"better reform in the future"

You mean nationalized healthcare?

I mean single-payer, nationalized healthcare insurance. I'm agnostic on nationalized healthcare.

memyselfI
03-17-2010, 01:48 PM
He's toast. He's lost any shred of credibility he had with the progressives. It was waning anyway but now he's lost all of it.

vailpass
03-17-2010, 01:54 PM
I mean single-payer, nationalized healthcare insurance. I'm agnostic on nationalized healthcare.

Do you pay for health insurance now? Are you happy with the quality of your current health coverage?

SNR
03-17-2010, 02:50 PM
I mean single-payer, nationalized healthcare insurance. I'm agnostic on nationalized healthcare.So the public option, then.

You do realize that the public option WILL morph into nationalized healthcare, right? As soon as problems start to occur and funding the public option becomes a problem, we'll scratch it all and demand that the government just pay for everything.

I haven't seen any change in the trend of the changing American economic landscape to think otherwise.

Taco John
03-17-2010, 03:02 PM
So the public option, then.

You do realize that the public option WILL morph into nationalized healthcare, right? As soon as problems start to occur and funding the public option becomes a problem, we'll scratch it all and demand that the government just pay for everything.

I haven't seen any change in the trend of the changing American economic landscape to think otherwise.


SLIPPERY SLOPE! SLIPPERY SLOPE! AUGH! AUGH! YOUR ARGUING A SLIPPERY SLOPE!

Taco John
03-17-2010, 03:03 PM
Of course, slippery slope is exactly the strategy, and Direckshun admits as much.

Direckshun
03-17-2010, 03:21 PM
So the public option, then.

No! Sweet jesus.

There's been OVER A YEAR of this debate. How are you not getting this yet?

One more time, with feeling:

national coops/interstate exchanges = current bill proposes this, features no government plans other than expansions of medicaid, but groups the uninsured into pools of millions who can bargain for better premiums, as well as selling plans across state lines.

public option = HR 3200 proposed this, features a government plan to compete with private plans, is a nationalized option but not nationalized healthcare insurance, because it's only covering those who opt for it.

single payer = nationalized healthcare insurance, preferrence of liberals like myself and the current Canadian system, private companies essentially offer gold-plated plans but other than that, the government runs the entire healthcare insurance industry, but not the healthcare provider industry

socialized medicine/healthcare = this is nationalized healthcare, in that the government runs not only the insurance industry but the medical provider industry, the government doesn't just pay all the doctors, they employ all the doctors, this is used in the UK and Scandinavia.

Now, I believe the current plan can be used as a bridge to single payer (i.e. nationalized healthcare INSURANCE) eventually. It can directly lead to that, although it would probably take a couple generations. Nationalized healthcare doesn't follow as logically from all of this as nationalized healthcare insurance does.

I may have to brief you on the nuclear option later.

Chocolate Hog
03-17-2010, 03:23 PM
I used to respect Kuchinich but fuck that guy.

Chocolate Hog
03-17-2010, 03:23 PM
Wasn't this the same guy who said this is a bailout for the insurance companies?

BucEyedPea
03-17-2010, 03:24 PM
Wasn't this the same guy who said this is a bailout for the insurance companies?

Yup! That one. Like I said I think it's because the public option is gonna be ushered in through the back door. That's the only thing that makes sense to me...unless he was black-mailed. I heard on Beck, a short while ago, that he ran the city Cleveland into the ground too due to his Progressive ideas.

Direckshun
03-17-2010, 03:27 PM
Of course, slippery slope is exactly the strategy, and Direckshun admits as much.

Sure.

Just like you'd like to see a slippery slope to this bullshit (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=223322), where the insurance industry is completely deregulated, and all subsidies to the sick and unhealthy are eliminated in the spirit of a healthcare philosophy that you have zero scientific support for.

Direckshun
03-17-2010, 03:29 PM
Wasn't this the same guy who said this is a bailout for the insurance companies?

It's a tune he was singing to, you know, get stuff (http://plainblogaboutpolitics.blogspot.com/2010/03/nicely-played.html):

I have nothing to really say about Dennis Kucinich voting yes...it's one vote, which means that it's one more vote that Pelosi won't have to get from a marginal district, and that's about it. But I am impressed that all three cable networks took his statement live. Plus he apparently got four meetings with the president, and a rally in his district with the president...all in all, Kucinich managed to use this to really move himself up, at least in the press's eyes, as a major figure on the loony left -- despite the truth, which is that he appears to be totally isolated. After all, he didn't bring a single vote with him, nor did he (as far as I know) even bring any support with him outside Congress; MoveOn was already strongly supportive of the bill while Kucinich was still claiming to be a no, and I very much doubt if any leftist individuals or groups out there still opposed to the bill will switch as a result of Kucinich's switch. In other words, he is in no sense an actual leader of the loony left, but he got treated by the cable nets as if he was. So, nicely played, Dennis Kucinich.

The sooner you stop treating absolutely anybody who says something you like as a harbinger of intellectually honesty, the better off you'll be.

CoMoChief
03-17-2010, 03:40 PM
Well he won't have a job before long. He just followed Obama off of a cliff.

Taco John
03-17-2010, 03:42 PM
Sure.

Just like you'd like to see a slippery slope to this bullshit (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=223322), where the insurance industry is completely deregulated, and all subsidies to the sick and unhealthy are eliminated in the spirit of a healthcare philosophy that you have zero scientific support for.


Frankly, I think insurance costs would come down significantly if we let insurance companies fail. Unfortunately, socialists in this country insist on propping up failed (or failing) institutions so that they (government) can take them over.

Direckshun
03-17-2010, 03:46 PM
Frankly, I think insurance costs would come down significantly if we let insurance companies fail.

For those who can get access.

For those who can't, I guess they better hope your fairy tale healthcare philosophy of LITERALLY WISHING THEMSELVES BETTER gets an iota of scientific support really soon.

petegz28
03-17-2010, 03:46 PM
For those who can get access.

For those who can't, I guess they better hope your fairy tale healthcare philosophy of LITERALLY WISHING THEMSELVES BETTER gets an iota of scientific support really soon.

Everyone has access to health insurance. Stop talking dumb shit.

Taco John
03-17-2010, 03:47 PM
For those who can get access.

You mean Americans?

Direckshun
03-17-2010, 03:49 PM
Everyone has access to health insurance. Stop talking dumb shit.

Ooooh, and here I was thinking we were both going to stop talking about healthcare reform.

Guess not.

Direckshun
03-17-2010, 03:49 PM
You mean Americans?

Yeah.

petegz28
03-17-2010, 03:50 PM
Ooooh, and here I was thinking we were both going to stop talking about healthcare reform.

Guess not.

That's what you get for thinking. I never said I was going to stop.

petegz28
03-17-2010, 03:50 PM
Yeah.

What American can't call BCBS right now and get coverage? Save some pre-existing conditions which is one of the few aspects I favor in the bill.

Direckshun
03-17-2010, 04:01 PM
What American can't call BCBS right now and get coverage?

The ones who can't afford it.

petegz28
03-17-2010, 04:04 PM
The ones who can't afford it.

And your answer is to raise everyone else's rates to pay for them. That sounds like a good plan. :banghead:

Taco John
03-17-2010, 04:45 PM
The ones who can't afford it.

Explain how a mandate is going to make people who cant afford insurance suddenly able to afford it.

orange
03-17-2010, 04:54 PM
Explain how a mandate is going to make people who cant afford insurance suddenly able to afford it.

Subsidies.


Wow, that was easy.

Now you're onboard, right?

Saul Good
03-17-2010, 09:00 PM
LOL

But I thought Kucinich was the voice of Liberal Purism!

Yes, it seems Democrats are slowly coming around to the understanding that defeating this bill only slows down better reform in the future, rather than improves it.

It's hilarious that it's taken them this long.

I feel the same way about the war on terrorism.

It was right to invade Iraq under the false premise of their having had weapons of mass destruction. Voting against invading Iraq would have just slowed down the discovery of smarter tactics against terrorism.

It's hilarious that we didn't bomb Iran while we were at it.

wazu
03-17-2010, 09:39 PM
Kucinich is just an attention whore. He never intended to vote no, just wanted some headlines and TLC.

KC Dan
03-17-2010, 09:54 PM
The man last week was touting that he was a definite "no". Now, after a ride on AF1 and God knows what else given him, he is a "yes".

ZERO INTEGRITY

BucEyedPea
03-17-2010, 10:04 PM
I feel the same way about the war on terrorism.

It was right to invade Iraq under the false premise of their having had weapons of mass destruction. Voting against invading Iraq would have just slowed down the discovery of smarter tactics against terrorism.

It's hilarious that we didn't bomb Iran while we were at it.

O.M.G. This faction of Rs must never have a majority again.

BucEyedPea
03-17-2010, 10:04 PM
The ones who can't afford it.

This is the govt's problem how?

Saul Good
03-17-2010, 10:09 PM
O.M.G. This faction of Rs must never have a majority again.

If you missed the fact that my post was a parody of Direckshun's argument for the HC bill, you need to hang it up.