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orange
03-20-2010, 01:17 PM
Report: House To Drop “Deem And Pass” Strategy
By: David Dayen Saturday March 20, 2010 11:34 am

Multiple reports say that the House will drop the “deem and pass” strategy and instead hold three separate votes on Sunday – a vote on the rule, a vote on reconciliation, and a vote on the Senate bill. Dennis Cardoza, who criticized the “deem and pass” strategy of consolidating two votes into one, praised the Democratic leadership for taking that away. “Sanity prevailed,” Cardoza said.

Given that the worry about Cardoza mainly came from his issues with deem and pass, I would guess that he’ll come home and vote for the bill now. But we’ll exercise caution.

The right-wing freakout over “deem and pass” was massively hypocritical, but once they pushed the media into calling a perfectly normal procedure unconstitutional, the utility of doing it faded away. One wonders what Republicans will freak out about now.

http://news.firedoglake.com/

Saul Good
03-20-2010, 01:18 PM
So their strategy is to talk about doing something even more underhanded than reconciliation. Then, when they back off of it and go to reconciliation, they can pretend that they are doing something other than thwarting the will of the people through procedural sleight of hand. Kind of smart, actually.

orange
03-20-2010, 01:25 PM
One wonders what Republicans will freak out about now.

http://news.firedoglake.com/

And we have our answer:
So their strategy is to talk about doing something even more underhanded than reconciliation. Then, when they back off of it and go to reconciliation, they can pretend that they are doing something other than thwarting the will of the people through procedural sleight of hand. Kind of smart, actually.

Back to "reconciliation." As they say, there's no dog like an old dog.

http://taschek.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/old-dog.jpg

Saul Good
03-20-2010, 01:28 PM
And we have our answer:


Back to "reconciliation." As they say, there's no dog like an old dog.

http://taschek.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/old-dog.jpg

That's your idea of freaking out? Whatever fits your paradigm, I guess.

orange
03-20-2010, 01:30 PM
My paradigm is to get back to "thwarting the will of the people."

What's yours?

HonestChieffan
03-20-2010, 01:58 PM
The sleaze factor for them is so high and so complete nothing will surprise anyone at this point. November will be a bloodbath for democrats.

Warrior5
03-20-2010, 02:23 PM
They dropped it because they won't need it. They've had 216 votes the moment they scheduled a Sunday vote and hung the bill on teh intrawebs.

Think about it: imagine the vote coming up 215-215 (which means it fails). Nan-nan says, "Fine, even though it just failed, we'll "deem" it passed and proceed", all on C-Span.

People would storm the capitol building with pitchforks.

Nah, they got at least 216 votes... yesterday and today are pure theater.

Chocolate Hog
03-20-2010, 02:35 PM
So what does this even mean?

orange
03-20-2010, 02:42 PM
So what does this even mean?

It really doesn't mean much.

There will be three roll call votes tomorrow instead of two.
Poor Mark Levin's lawsuit will never get filed. He'll have to do something else as a fundraiser.
And Republicans will have to find some other outrageous dismantling of the Founders' Christian Constitution to freak out about.

And the rest of the world will go on as if nothing happened.

Chocolate Hog
03-20-2010, 02:43 PM
But the bill will not be passed is that correct?

orange
03-20-2010, 02:45 PM
But the bill will not be passed is that correct?

No the Bill will be voted on and (I believe) passed. They'll just use the long-form procedure instead of combining two votes into one.

RedNeckRaider
03-20-2010, 02:47 PM
No the Bill will be voted on and (I believe) passed. They'll just use the long-form procedure instead of combining two votes into one.

And I hope you believe wrong ;)

petegz28
03-20-2010, 04:08 PM
Well if the don't deem it the what the hell is the vote for reconciliation for? If they pass the Senate bill it's over. Is it not? Why can't it go straight to the President right then and there?

orange
03-20-2010, 04:11 PM
Because they don't WANT the unamended Senate bill. And the Senate Democrats have promised to amend their bill with reconciliation after the President signs it.

The Senate bill will indeed go to the President and be signed. Only if the Senate pulls a fast one will it not come up for reconciliation, though. That's why Pelosi, Hoyer et al have been seeking "blood oaths" from the Senate that they will take it up.

Taco John
03-20-2010, 04:15 PM
They've had 216 votes the moment they scheduled a Sunday vote and hung the bill on teh intrawebs.


That's not true. They made a calculated gamble that they could get the votes by Sunday. They are currently short, but within 24 hours, they can probably find them.

petegz28
03-20-2010, 04:16 PM
Because they don't WANT the unamended Senate bill. And the Senate Democrats have promised to amend their bill with reconciliation after the President signs it.

That's stupid. This is just becoming more and more of a farse. So now the expectation is the Senate will pass the changes across the board? HA! I look forward to this being drawn out even more. Pelosi and Obama are outthinking themselves further and further into a black hole.

Warrior5
03-20-2010, 06:02 PM
That's not true. They made a calculated gamble that they could get the votes by Sunday. They are currently short, but within 24 hours, they can probably find them.

Unless you can prove that TJ, you have your opinion and I have mine. Not for a minute do I think Pelosi, Obama, or Reid have the nads to make a "calculated gamble"...

Do you honestly think they would've committed to a vote of this magnitude and controversy if there was any chance it would fail? I don't.

Taco John
03-20-2010, 06:35 PM
Unless you can prove that TJ, you have your opinion and I have mine.


Every credible vote count I've seen says that your opinion is wrong. The Democrats took a calculated risk here in calling the vote.

Brainiac
03-20-2010, 06:37 PM
Unless you can prove that TJ, you have your opinion and I have mine. Not for a minute do I think Pelosi, Obama, or Reid have the nads to make a "calculated gamble"...

Do you honestly think they would've committed to a vote of this magnitude and controversy if there was any chance it would fail? I don't.
You forget that Obama, Pelosi and Reid aren't very smart.

Taco John
03-20-2010, 06:54 PM
Nobody in the house is going to sleep well tonight. Deem and pass is a poison pill politically, but it's really the only way that the House can keep the Senate on a leash (imagine you were buying a house with a leaky roof, and you sign the closing papers with a contingency that the roof will be fixed - that's deem and pass). It's not as sinister as it appears prima facie, but it's still bad politics because it allows members of congress to vote for imperfect legislation in blind faith that the sludge lodged in there that they don't like will get washed out. It's a weak way to pass legislation. It's basically a cop out to your constituency because you've given up control of the law and put it up to chance that it'll get fixed the way you would otherwise demand it to be fixed if you were voting directly on it. I don't think it's sinister, but I definitely think it's weak.

What is keeping House members up all night toight? The realization that they are the Senate's bitch, and that they have been forced on the national stage to prove it by voting in the Senate's bill on blind faith that they will then use reconcilliation to fix the stuff that they don't like. If the House passes this bill tomorrow, the Senate can simply say "thanks" and be done with it. They're of course singing the siren song of reconciliation to entice them to move it forward. The house has to determine if they trust the Senate to keep their word, and that the reconciliation process will work. Not to mention that they'll get the support that they need from Republicans to ensure that their concerns are addressed.

The only thing that is going to keep this thing from passing tomorrow are conservative Democrats in the House standing up to the Senate, and saying "no, we're not going to have our concerns steamrolled, and leave them up to chance that we're going to get cooperation first from the Senate and then from the Republicans."

This thing isn't over yet.

Taco John
03-20-2010, 06:55 PM
You forget that Obama, Pelosi and Reid aren't very smart.

I don't care what anyone says, I think Pelosi is a brilliant strategist. I abhor her politics, but that woman has a mind to recon with.

mlyonsd
03-20-2010, 07:04 PM
I don't care what anyone says, I think Pelosi is a brilliant strategist. I abhor her politics, but that woman has a mind to recon with.

Meh. If she was so brilliant this thing would have passed long ago with the dem majorities.

She couldn't wear Tip O'Neil's jock even though she probably smells like it.

Taco John
03-20-2010, 07:09 PM
Meh. If she was so brilliant this thing would have passed long ago with the dem majorities.

She couldn't wear Tip O'Neil's jock even though she probably smells like it.

I'm not saying she's the best ever or anything. I'm just saying that she's a smart woman. But to answer your question "if she's so smart, why did it take so long," give it up to her chief opponent, Mitch McConnel for that one. He laid out a strategy and got the entire party to buy in.

http://principallypolitical.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/mitch-mcconnell2.jpg

Also give it up to The Tea Party movement that Ron Paul started. Without their energy center, the Republicans wouldn't have the power that they do right now - and that's a fact.

http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/090415-teaparty-hmed-10a.h2.jpg

mlyonsd
03-20-2010, 07:26 PM
I'm not saying she's the best ever or anything. I'm just saying that she's a smart woman. But to answer your question "if she's so smart, why did it take so long," give it up to her chief opponent, Mitch McConnel for that one. He laid out a strategy and got the entire party to buy in.

http://principallypolitical.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/mitch-mcconnell2.jpg

Also give it up to The Tea Party movement that Ron Paul started. Without their energy center, the Republicans wouldn't have the power that they do right now - and that's a fact.

http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/090415-teaparty-hmed-10a.h2.jpg

Yup.

The dems can pat themselves on the back for forcing a bad bill down our throats but they have set a course for disaster that will only make the tea party movement and the republicans stronger. Hopefully enough to straighten out their mess before we reach third world status.