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Bearcat2005
03-21-2010, 07:03 AM
Dem Caucas says it now has 216 "yes" votes.

Iowanian
03-21-2010, 07:39 AM
If they pass this garbage, I will for the first time donate money, time and effort to political campaigns.....those of the opponents of every shitbrick in my state who votes for this sodomy of the American working taxpayer.

Bearcat2005
03-21-2010, 07:46 AM
The problem is us, they know what is best for you and I, we just haven't realized it yet.

Bwana
03-21-2010, 07:52 AM
If this does go through today, all hell is going to break loose.

HonestChieffan
03-21-2010, 07:52 AM
The sleeping giant....November

mlyonsd
03-21-2010, 07:57 AM
The only way I could ever be for this bill is if the entire cost was based on a tax paid for by every American worker and business. A flat percentage tax that is adjusted every year to keep the program solvent.

This damaging effects of this bill are just another kick in the teeth to our long term economic prospects.

Bearcat2005
03-21-2010, 07:58 AM
The sleeping giant....November

From another angle why democratic members will have trouble in Nov.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/03/20/why_democrats_are_doomed_if_obamacare_passes_104860.html

Why Democrats Are Doomed if ObamaCare Passes
By Dick Morris

If the House Democratic majority passes Obama's health care proposals, one of two things will happen by Election Day, 2010 -- and neither one will be healthy for the Democrats seeking re-election.

Either the Medicare cuts will take effect or they will be postponed by a terrified Congress.

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Dick Morris RealClearPolitics
Health care

If they take effect, physicians' fees will be slashed 21 percent and hospital reimbursements for Medicare patients will be cut by $1.3 billion. Tens of thousands of doctors and thousands of health care institutions -- hospitals, hospices, outpatient clinics and such -- will refuse to treat Medicare patients.

Entire cities will be without one doctor in important specialties who will take care of the elderly on Medicare. Particularly in fields like G.I. care or arthritic and joint pain, doctors will simply refuse to accept the low reimbursement rates they are being offered and hospitals will refuse all but emergency care to Medicare patients. In effect, the elderly will experience a doctors' strike against Medicare patients.

Congress, faced with this massive revolt coming right on the verge of the election, may back down and postpone the cuts. Originally, doctor reimbursement rates were scheduled to drop on March 1 of this year, but Congress postponed it until the fall. Now the Democrats in Congress will face not only cuts in doctors' fees but in all forms of Medicare reimbursement -- the so-called "market basket" of cuts programmed into Obamacare.

Congress, being Congress, will probably seek to postpone the cuts until after Election Day. But in doing so, they would expose the deficit-reduction and cost-containment features of Obama's bill for the fraud that they are. The news media headlines would blare that Congress just voted to add tens or hundreds of billions to the deficit, and the big-spending, high-borrowing image of Congress will worsen. All pretense that Obamacare is not a reckless spending bill will be stripped away, and we will be face to face with the reality that it will add hugely to the deficit.
All this will come at precisely the time that House and Senate Democrats are scrambling to rebut the attacks of their Republican challengers over these very issues. If Congress votes to postpone the Medicare cuts, as a former secretary of health and human services predicted to me, they will have to answer for their fiscal irresponsibility right before the election.

Either poison -- the cuts or the deficit -- will be enough to eradicate an entire generation of House and Senate Democrats.

And these cuts will take place against a backdrop of continuing increases in health insurance premiums, no expansion of coverage (it doesn't kick in until 2013) and no tangible benefit from the Obama bill.

This is the prospect the House and Senate Democrats who vote for Obamacare will face in the fall of 2010. This is the record they will have to defend.

Or, they could save their political lives and vote no.

Morris, a former political adviser to Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.) and President Bill Clinton, is the author of "Outrage." To get all of Dick Morris’s and Eileen McGann’s columns for free by email, go to www.dickmorris.com.

Bearcat2005
03-21-2010, 08:00 AM
The only way I could ever be for this bill is if the entire cost was based on a tax paid for by every American worker and business. A flat percentage tax that is adjusted every year to keep the program solvent.

This damaging effects of this bill are just another kick in the teeth to our long term economic prospects.

The CBO thinks they have an idea of how much this costs, the truth is much different. Its okay we will just print more money :) The joy of unlegislated taxation.

mlyonsd
03-21-2010, 08:02 AM
I'm just glad South Dakota's lone representative is going to vote no. And she's a democrat.

mlyonsd
03-21-2010, 08:05 AM
The CBO thinks they have an idea of how much this costs, the truth is much different. Its okay we will just print more money :) The joy of unlegislated taxation.
Even the CBO admits their numbers are based on things they can't predict.

HonestChieffan
03-21-2010, 08:10 AM
After it passes and the pressure is off this thing will be examined in way greater detail. That is when the real poop hits the fan.

Realistically, we cannot afford it. Thats very clear. As the price tag is calculated we should see a move to ammend and change and delete a lot of the contents and with 4 years to get it done we may see this thing get gutted like it will need to be.

November is the start and passing this bill is the rally point to bring the country together in our need to remove these people and get the country bak on track.

Bearcat2005
03-21-2010, 08:15 AM
Even the CBO admits their numbers are based on things they can't predict.

Remember we have to vote on this before we can see what is in it or in this case see how much it costs.

Bearcat2005
03-21-2010, 08:18 AM
After it passes and the pressure is off this thing will be examined in way greater detail. That is when the real poop hits the fan.

Realistically, we cannot afford it. Thats very clear. As the price tag is calculated we should see a move to ammend and change and delete a lot of the contents and with 4 years to get it done we may see this thing get gutted like it will need to be.

November is the start and passing this bill is the rally point to bring the country together in our need to remove these people and get the country bak on track.

Only if you get the Republican party willing to abandon their previous big government policies. IMO when someone like Roy Blunt gets the automatic support of the NRSC before the primary, that tells me the lesson may not have been learned.

HonestChieffan
03-21-2010, 08:22 AM
Only if you get the Republican party willing to abandon their previous big government policies. IMO when someone like Roy Blunt gets the automatic support of the NRSC before the primary, that tells me the lesson may not have been learned.

The people we elect to congress make the difference. The party as you see it is not allpowerful and controlling, it is made up of all voters who vote for and elect the reps and senate. If people focus on the Party...they will fail. This is way bigger than the RNC.

Saul Good
03-21-2010, 08:30 AM
The people we elect to congress make the difference. The party as you see it is not allpowerful and controlling, it is made up of all voters who vote for and elect the reps and senate. If people focus on the Party...they will fail. This is way bigger than the RNC.

This is why local elections are so important. If you elect good people to local positions, you wind up with a deep pool of candidates from which to choose for national elections down the road. If nothing else, maybe the tea party movement will encourage people to pay more attention to the recruiting instead of wondering why the team keeps losing come tournament time.

Bearcat2005
03-21-2010, 08:48 AM
The people we elect to congress make the difference. The party as you see it is not allpowerful and controlling, it is made up of all voters who vote for and elect the reps and senate. If people focus on the Party...they will fail. This is way bigger than the RNC.

What I am focusing on is the movement and the lack of many in the Republican establishment to embrace a small government approach. Just voting for big government republicans because they are NOT democrats is not the answer conservatism needs.
Of course it makes it hard for real conservatives to win against guys like Roy Blunt when he is provided with millions in RNC funds.

thecoffeeguy
03-21-2010, 09:32 AM
If this does go through today, all hell is going to break loose.

Get the pitchforks and torches out!

HonestChieffan
03-21-2010, 09:33 AM
What I am focusing on is the movement and the lack of many in the Republican establishment to embrace a small government approach. Just voting for big government republicans because they are NOT democrats is not the answer conservatism needs.
Of course it makes it hard for real conservatives to win against guys like Roy Blunt when he is provided with millions in RNC funds.

Those who dont embrace a conservative view will go. Its not that difficult.

max sleeper
03-21-2010, 09:37 AM
If they pass this garbage, I will for the first time donate money, time and effort to political campaigns.....those of the opponents of every shitbrick in my state who votes for this sodomy of the American working taxpayer.

Do what your talk radio masters tell you to do!!! At least get your own ideas and not just repeat what you hear! Think for yourself! You can do it! ;)

fan4ever
03-21-2010, 09:51 AM
Do what your talk radio masters tell you to do!!! At least get your own ideas and not just repeat what you hear! Think for yourself! You can do it! ;)

Gosh you're a special guy.

I hope and pray legal/constitutional challenges keep this nightmare from ever happening.

mlyonsd
03-21-2010, 09:54 AM
Now they're talking about Obama possibly signing an executive order extending the Hyde ammendment on abortion today to give cover to wavering pro-lifers.

If that happens and the Stupak clan change their votes they should be removed in the next election as well.

What a bunch of chit. How f'ing stupid do they think we are?

HonestChieffan
03-21-2010, 09:57 AM
It shows that anyone can be bought. As soon as he signs that order he also says it will not be enforced.

Bearcat2005
03-21-2010, 09:59 AM
Those who dont embrace a conservative view will go. Its not that difficult.

That may be the case for some but it is the minority. When those that hold the funding strings still want big government policies and special interest influence then you will have many fiscally irresponsible "conservatives" getting elected.
When people like Blunt and McCain get funding BEFORE the primaries, that tells me its more about relationships than actual beliefs.

The republicans need to build that trust with the voters, demonstrating a purge of big government ideals rather than just be the NOOBAMA party. They can do this by NOT supporting guys like Blunt. After the years of Bush capitalism, I am not inclined not to believe that this cleansing will take place, unless under new leadership.

Bearcat2005
03-21-2010, 10:02 AM
Now they're talking about Obama possibly signing an executive order extending the Hyde ammendment on abortion today to give cover to wavering pro-lifers.

If that happens and the Stupak clan change their votes they should be removed in the next election as well.

What a bunch of chit. How f'ing stupid do they think we are?

I heard that as well. Wouldn't that turn away many of the more liberal house reps?

Otter
03-21-2010, 10:07 AM
If this does go through today, all hell is going to break loose.

One can only hope.

Otter
03-21-2010, 10:09 AM
Now they're talking about Obama possibly signing an executive order extending the Hyde ammendment on abortion today to give cover to wavering pro-lifers.

If that happens and the Stupak clan change their votes they should be removed in the next election as well.

What a bunch of chit. How f'ing stupid do they think we are?

I don't think it's 'how stupid do they think we are' as much as 'what are they going to do about it'.

mlyonsd
03-21-2010, 10:19 AM
I heard that as well. Wouldn't that turn away many of the more liberal house reps?

No. It would only be used as a 'wink wink' tactic. The only way they'd possibly lose a far left lib is if they actually did the right thing and put abortion language in the bill.

Bearcat2005
03-21-2010, 10:25 AM
No. It would only be used as a 'wink wink' tactic. The only way they'd possibly lose a far left lib is if they actually did the right thing and put abortion language in the bill.

This whole bill is like a house of cards within the DNC. All of these "fix-it" measures I imagine could pose problems for house and senate leadership.

bsp4444
03-21-2010, 11:14 AM
Gosh you're a special guy.

I hope and pray legal/constitutional challenges keep this nightmare from ever happening.

What is your complaint...the cost? Because your solution of delay and obstruction would not be free.

Taco John
03-21-2010, 11:39 AM
Democrats are whistling in the dark right now. They don't know if they have the votes. They are down to wrangling with the Stupak block, which have shown signs of weakness. Apparently there are still 8 or 9 in this coalition. They are working on language for an executive order. If Stupak falls, America follows suit.

orange
03-21-2010, 11:42 AM
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/5498/slide_5498_75014_large.jpg


"UPDATE II: Stupak tells CNN that he is still a 'no' as of 1:15 PM ET. The language on the abortion-related executive order is still not finalized and he has not yet agreed to support the health care bill. The drama continues."

:rolleyes:

Taco John
03-21-2010, 11:46 AM
Without Stupak, they don't have the votes.

Mile High Mania
03-21-2010, 11:47 AM
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2010/03/19/ac.henry.whitehouse.deals.cnn

Shocker - still a number of 'special deals'.

Iowanian
03-21-2010, 11:47 AM
Do what your talk radio masters tell you to do!!! At least get your own ideas and not just repeat what you hear! Think for yourself! You can do it! ;)

I don't listen to talk radio, feel free to perform a marital act upon yourself.


I'm not even completely against the idea of healthcare. As a small business owner, the concept probably is helpful to me and my employees.

I'm against the bullshit, ramming it down our throats win at all costs. I'm against funding even MORE of the non-producer-Americans than I already do. I'm against the hidden, vote buying bullshit included in the bill. I'm against the govt taking over STUDENT LOANS as part of this bill. I'm against the back room deals it requires, at the last hour to buy a vote.

If this bill was good, it would pass on it's own merrit.

Mile High Mania
03-21-2010, 11:48 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/21/stupak-says-health-care-deal-looming-abortion-funding/

Stupak will fold and vote.

Taco John
03-21-2010, 11:52 AM
It's over. They're going to pass it. Stupak has fallen.

orange
03-21-2010, 11:55 AM
Updated seconds ago:

BREAKING: Stupak Flips Vote to 'Yes' on Health Care Bill
by Human Events

03/20/2010


Human Events was just informed by a member on the floor of the House of Representatives that Rep. Bart Stupak has flipped his vote from no to yes on health care, pending a non-binding executive order from the president that reaffirms public funding will not be used for abortion.

Stupak's decision comes as the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops sent information to congressional staffs affirming that an executive order will not be sufficient to prevent federal funding of abortion should the health care bill pass.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36128

Iowanian
03-21-2010, 11:56 AM
Sounds like its' time to start calling Senators and telling them to shoot this thing down.

It also sounds like it's time to get on the Bob Vanderplaates for governor bandwagon in Iowa.

Chiefshrink
03-21-2010, 11:58 AM
If they pass this garbage, I will for the first time donate money, time and effort to political campaigns.....those of the opponents of every shitbrick in my state who votes for this sodomy of the American working taxpayer.

It might be too little too late. Although I agree with your sentiments, here is the problem: "We the people" if guilty of anything, it is falling asleep at the wheel of our liberties and freedom being taken away from us "assuming" the America as we have always known it will "always be" and not educating ourselves individually as need be, in order to keep the "progressive communist scum" from taking over and knowing the difference as a people to recognize this. :thumb:

Taco John
03-21-2010, 11:59 AM
Sounds like its' time to start calling Senators and telling them to shoot this thing down.

It also sounds like it's time to get on the Bob Vanderplaates for governor bandwagon in Iowa.



The battle now goes to the state level. Time for Republicans to get serious about the 10th Amendment.

Iowanian
03-21-2010, 12:01 PM
I've never been active in telling others how to think of vote, outside of specific local issues...that will change today if this gets railroaded through.


THe 10th Amendment was probably written out as irrelevant in some paragraph on this bill.

Chiefshrink
03-21-2010, 12:01 PM
It's over. They're going to pass it. Stupak has fallen.

Did anybody really think he would stand firm:shrug:

Now the real question will be can "We the people" put fear back into our own govt after this horseshit bill passes?

Mizzou_8541
03-21-2010, 12:01 PM
The battle now goes to the state level. Time for Republicans to get serious about the 10th Amendment.

Serious question: What do you mean when you say the battle goes to the state level?

mlyonsd
03-21-2010, 12:02 PM
Another spineless democrat? Color me shocked.

This executive order BS is just the final sleazy tactic that will come back to haunt dems.

Chiefshrink
03-21-2010, 12:03 PM
The battle now goes to the state level. Time for Republicans to get serious about the 10th Amendment.

As I stated earlier to you will the govt 'ever' fear "We the people"?? God let's hope:eek:

orange
03-21-2010, 12:05 PM
Sounds like its' time to start calling Senators and telling them to shoot this thing down.


You don't quite get it. When the House votes and the President signs, this thing IS THE LAW. The original, crappy Senate Bill with the Cornhusker Kickback etc.

The Senate can't "shoot it down." They can only try to improve it. The House will send them a set of amendments (also voted on today), but they're basically all stuff trimming things the Republicans are on record against.

Taco John
03-21-2010, 12:08 PM
Serious question: What do you mean when you say the battle goes to the state level?

I mean that the only way to kill this thing is for states to excert their authority over the federal government.

Iowanian
03-21-2010, 12:10 PM
You don't quite get it. When the House votes and the President signs, this thing IS THE LAW. The original, crappy Senate Bill with the Cornhusker Kickback etc.

The Senate can't "shoot it down." They can only try to improve it. The House will send them a set of amendments (also voted on today), but they're basically all stuff trimming things the Republicans are on record against.

I guess what you don't quite get is that the Dems have angered the mob. If I'm feeling more political, I guarantee thousands of others are also. These scumbags are getting fired.

alnorth
03-21-2010, 12:10 PM
Sounds like its' time to start calling Senators and telling them to shoot this thing down

Thats not going to do much. The vote ~4 hours from now is basically the whole ball game. They are voting to pass the Senate bill without changes. If they succeed, Obama will sign it and its law.

After that, the question will be whether or not the Senate can pass the little fixes that the house want but if they fail, the House cant go "oh well never mind then, we take back our vote." The house is basically taking a leap of faith that the senate will make the little tweaks and changes that were agreed to.

Iowanian
03-21-2010, 12:12 PM
Maybe Idaho will start the domino line for State Rights.

Taco John
03-21-2010, 12:13 PM
Maybe Idaho will start the domino line for State Rights.

There are measures going through 37 states right now. The good news is that the Republicans are about to have a crop of new stars as governors start to stand up against this thing.

HonestChieffan
03-21-2010, 12:16 PM
Dont forget the Senate bill has a provision where no changes or ammendments can take place without 67 votes.

Iowanian
03-21-2010, 12:17 PM
This is the single issue for me that will put Vander Plaats on my list for Governor...he's already saying Iowa will opt out.

Maybe this is the catalyst to have the fight that needs to happen anyway.

alnorth
03-21-2010, 12:17 PM
Maybe Idaho will start the domino line for State Rights.

These state lawsuits are also symbolic and useless. Every single one of them will be thrown out of federal court because this is not unconstitutional.

Boiled down, we are basically talking a new surcharge on your federal income tax, and method to avoid the surcharge (similar to many, many, many other surcharges already in the code).

These state lawsuits are basically an opportunity for the right to scream and vent their frustrations. Almost no one seriously believes they are going anywhere.

The state lawsuits could be politically smart though, it keeps the issue on the news for the next half-year, and if they act quick enough so they can fail right before the elections, that adds more fury to guarantee that the GOP base is heavily motivated to turn out in 2010. It will be too late to stop the bill, but if the GOP acts wisely they could use this issue to take back the house and a big chunk of the senate.

alnorth
03-21-2010, 12:19 PM
This is the single issue for me that will put Vander Plaats on my list for Governor...he's already saying Iowa will opt out.

Maybe this is the catalyst to have the fight that needs to happen anyway.

Vander Plaats is an idiot. His platform is basically 90% "I hate gay marriage, RAR!", something that no one really gives a rat's ass about. I'm supporting Branstad to kick out Culver.

Iowanian
03-21-2010, 12:19 PM
If I am taxed any further to fund this, I'll be getting rid of an employee or forced to become a money hider-American.

Basically, those of us who already pay for the non-producer Americans are going to pay more. That is un-F'ing-acceptable to me.

Iowanian
03-21-2010, 12:20 PM
Vander Plaats is an idiot. His platform is basically 90% "I hate gay marriage, RAR!", something that no one really gives a rat's ass about. I'm supporting Branstad to kick out Culver.

That should have been a public vote instead of a judge's decision anyway.


If you read more carefully, you'll see I said the former was the issue that pushed me in his direction.

orange
03-21-2010, 12:20 PM
Dont forget the Senate bill has a provision where no changes or ammendments can take place without 67 votes.

That provision applies only to one particular section. Which undoubtedly will NOT be amended.

Chocolate Hog
03-21-2010, 12:25 PM
I've always been open to voting for different parties but I can now say i'll never vote for a Democrat again.

HonestChieffan
03-21-2010, 12:27 PM
That provision applies only to one particular section. Which undoubtedly will NOT be amended.

How can you allow a 51 vote to pass something and at same time require a 67 to ammend it?

alnorth
03-21-2010, 12:27 PM
That should have been a public vote instead of a judge's decision anyway.

If you read more carefully, you'll see I said the former was the issue that pushed me in his direction.

Aside from my disgust with Vander Plaats political priorities (its the economy, stupid), Branstad is probably the best shot to retire Culver.

Everyone apparently knows who Branstad is (I didnt, I'm still fairly young), and apparently a lot of old voters have very fond memories of him. In the latest Rasmussen poll Branstad is blasting Culver by a full 16 points, while Vander Plaats is merely ahead by 6 (but not over 50%)

HonestChieffan
03-21-2010, 12:28 PM
If I am taxed any further to fund this, I'll be getting rid of an employee or forced to become a money hider-American.

Basically, those of us who already pay for the non-producer Americans are going to pay more. That is un-F'ing-acceptable to me.

Cash business will create a huge underground economy for some. Cash only discounts and barter.

alnorth
03-21-2010, 12:29 PM
How can you allow a 51 vote to pass something and at same time require a 67 to ammend it?

you need 67 votes to change senate rules (except theoretically, they can always use the "nuclear option" and do anything they want with 51, but no one is talking about that since the GOP's flirtation with wanting judges confirmed).

They arent changing senate rules.

Chiefshrink
03-21-2010, 12:45 PM
Cash business will create a huge underground economy for some. Cash only discounts and barter.

You hit the nail on the head Honest!! This is where it is going! Cash underground economy. As our grandparents and great grandparents have always taught us "CASH IS ALWAYS KING"!!!! And now more than ever! How ironic.

Chiefshrink
03-21-2010, 12:49 PM
Cash business will create a huge underground economy for some. Cash only discounts and barter.

You nailed it Honest!! This is where it is going; to a "cash underground economy". As our grandparents and great grandparents taught us from their lessons of the past that we present day refuse to learn is that "CASH IS ALWAYS KING" and very soon it will be 'JUST GOLD'.:thumb:

Chiefshrink
03-21-2010, 12:51 PM
my bad, didn't think my original submit took because my screen timed out. Sorry for the double post.

kcfanXIII
03-21-2010, 01:05 PM
What is your complaint...the cost? Because your solution of delay and obstruction would not be free.

the cost is a problem, as it could bankrupt america. but the really troubling thing for me is the the power grab by the fed gov. not only are they overstepping their constitutional powers, name one thing the gov has ever done efficiently. go ahead, i'll wait.... i don't want or need the fed gov in my everyday life any more than they already are. you want them to have a reason to take more money from you? like the quarter of the time you're working for tax money isn't enough already. if you are for this bill, do the rest of america a favor, find yourself a loaded gun, place the business end of the barrel at the roof of your mouth and squeeze.

Bwana
03-21-2010, 01:07 PM
Get the pitchforks and torches out!

I doubt that, but I'm willing to bet this will make the current economic times seem like a walk in the park. If you are out of work now, good luck on finding a job. I you are employed you better keep your fingers crossed, because there is going to be some more cuts.

Deberg_1990
03-21-2010, 01:45 PM
you want them to have a reason to take more money from you? like the quarter of the time you're working for tax money isn't enough already. if you are for this bill, do the rest of america a favor, find yourself a loaded gun, place the business end of the barrel at the roof of your mouth and squeeze.

Do these guys even listen to what their constituents want anymore??

kcfanXIII
03-21-2010, 01:56 PM
Do these guys even listen to what their constituents want anymore??

why would they? the average american is so inundated with misinformation from the mass media, they don't know which way is up. they have the right fear mongers claiming every legislation is a step closer to socialism, and the left fear mongers claiming the right is all gun toting crazy racists. there's no middle ground in politics, and that in itself, is the problem, and the reason our country is fucked.

HonestChieffan
03-21-2010, 02:00 PM
a phone call cannot overcome the money and promices made by Obama to these holdouts. We do not matter. Chicago has arrived in full force. Never forget.

thecoffeeguy
03-21-2010, 02:02 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/21/stupak-says-health-care-deal-looming-abortion-funding/

Stupak will fold and vote.

They need to vote this pice of chit out next election.

I seriously hope the Repubs hold both the Senate and House after this November election.

Screw all those spineless weak Democrats who were bought off. All they did was sell this country down the drain!

kcfanXIII
03-21-2010, 02:08 PM
They need to vote this pice of chit out next election.

I seriously hope both the Senate and House after this November election ARE HELD BY INDEPENDENT FISCAL CONSERVATIVES

Screw all those spineless weak CONGRESSMAN who were bought off. All they did was sell this country down the drain!

FYP

BucEyedPea
03-21-2010, 03:06 PM
Lawsuits and nullification here we come!

orange
03-21-2010, 03:10 PM
Stupak: We have a deal.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/5498/slide_5498_75031_large.jpg

Rep. Bart Stupak has made it official: "I'm pleased to announce that we have an agreement...to protect the sanctity of life in health care reform." The executive order will make clear that federal funds will not go to abortion services. "We've all stood on principle," Stupak told reporters.

Asked if Democrats now have the 216 votes needed to pass health care reform, Stupak said, "We are well past 216, yes." Stupak declared that he is bringing on board more than just the seven lawmakers (himself included) at the press conference. Rep. Joe Donnelly (D-Ind.) also will now support the bill, he said, and there may be more. Stupak said his coalition numbered "at least ten at one time."

Following Stupak, Rep. Nick Rahall (D-Va.) called health care reform the "most pro-life legislation I will vote upon in my 34 years" in Congress.

The question raised by the Stupak deal: If Democrats already had the votes needed this morning -- and by every indication, they did -- why give pro-life groups anything? The answer comes down to a desire to allow vulnerable Democrats to vote no. In other words, the deal was cut not to pass the bill, but to protect the majority.

-- RYAN GRIM AND NICO PITNEY, 4:08 PM ET


[edit] I see that this was actually an hour ago. Wonder what's up with my browser. :spock:

HonestChieffan
03-21-2010, 03:17 PM
Stupak held out and got his payoff no doubt.

BucEyedPea
03-21-2010, 03:32 PM
I heard that EO cannot change the law. The deal is bogus.

alnorth
03-21-2010, 03:33 PM
I heard that EO cannot change the law. The deal is bogus.

Well, yeah. Its basically just a pro-life executive order. It can be rescinded at any time by Obama or a future president, but I assume Obama wont do that.

BucEyedPea
03-21-2010, 03:37 PM
Well, yeah. Its basically just a pro-life executive order. It can be rescinded at any time by Obama or a future president, but I assume Obama wont do that.

Gives a nod to the Hyde Amendment—the law of the land. The healthcare bill doesn't undo the Hyde Amendment.

alnorth
03-21-2010, 03:49 PM
Gives a nod to the Hyde Amendment—the law of the land. The healthcare bill doesn't undo the Hyde Amendment.

Ya, I don't know the fine technical details involved, but apparently a few pro-life dems thought there was some scary little loophole in the health care bill that would allow federally-funded abortions. Reassurances that they were wrong weren't good enough, they wanted an executive order. Could be useless overkill, but that's all they wanted.

talastan
03-21-2010, 07:42 PM
Yippie, nothing like wondering if my job is going to start laying people off because of healthcare. :shake:

Iowanian
03-21-2010, 10:04 PM
Depending on specifics of the bill and requirements, this may be enough to eliminate the job I created last summer, and cancel the one I'm planning on creating in June.

|Zach|
03-21-2010, 10:34 PM
Depending on specifics of the bill and requirements, this may be enough to eliminate the job I created last summer, and cancel the one I'm planning on creating in June.

Employers with 50 or fewer workers would be exempt from coverage provisions.

Taco John
03-21-2010, 10:36 PM
Employers with 50 or fewer workers would be exempt from coverage provisions.


Wow. So small businesses are incentivized to grow no larger than 50 employees right now. People don't understand that this stuff has economic consequences.

|Zach|
03-21-2010, 10:39 PM
Wow. So small businesses are incentivized to grow no larger than 50 employees right now. People don't understand that this stuff has economic consequences.

There is plenty of incentive to grow beyond 50 employees.

alnorth
03-21-2010, 10:46 PM
Wow. So small businesses are incentivized to grow no larger than 50 employees right now. People don't understand that this stuff has economic consequences.

I imagine if you have exactly 50 employees, you didnt offer health insurance, and were thinking about adding a 51st, ya that is probably an incremental disincentive.

Once your business potential grows to the point where you could really use another 5 or 10 employees, then I imagine the dam would break all at once and you'd hire em all up when the health care costs are outweighed by the additional productivity.

Iowanian
03-21-2010, 10:57 PM
Employers with 50 or fewer workers would be exempt from coverage provisions.

Other than the additional tax burdens to fund the non-producer-Americans.


I don't blame freelance photographers and subway musicians for celebrating tonight.

It's going to be interesting when all of the fine print, last minute bullshit is completely unrelated to healthcare is uncovered. Taxation of rental income, and other non-taxation like that.

|Zach|
03-21-2010, 10:58 PM
Other than the additional tax burdens to fund the non-producer-Americans.


I don't blame freelance photographers and subway musicians for celebrating tonight.

I don't blame people who don't know what they are talking about for not knowing what they are talking about.

Don't get mad because you don't have the business chops to add to your operation. Other people...and myself are earning good money from the photography business I have created with my business partner.