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View Full Version : Cardinals Mauer deal....wow....


Consistent1
03-21-2010, 04:23 PM
Pujols is gonna cost BIG money, but we already knew that. . I also wouldn't be putting him out there at catcher all the time. Too much for Mauer to me.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AiAxMA1_Zmlck2hDvuYRv6ARvLYF?slug=ap-twins-mauerextension

OnTheWarpath58
03-21-2010, 04:24 PM
I was just about to post this.

$23M per. I like Mauer, but that's absurd.

DeezNutz
03-21-2010, 04:26 PM
A-Rod at 33.
Jeter at 21.6. ('09 numbers)

Contract for Mauer is a deal for a sure-fire HOFer.

Cards should be trying to get Pujols, who is *3 years* (wink, wink) older for around 25 per.

L.A. Chieffan
03-21-2010, 04:28 PM
Mauer is still young and a superstud. You gotta pay these guys or theyre history.

Pujols is gonna be scary in pinstripes.

Shag
03-21-2010, 04:29 PM
Also, keep in mind that Mauer is a hometown kid - the fans here absolutely adore him, and it would have been suicide for the Twins to let him go. Brand new stadium, which was pitched to the taxpayers as allowing the team to have a higher payroll. No way were they not resigning him.

Great player, and he brings in a ton of money for the team...

OnTheWarpath58
03-21-2010, 04:30 PM
A-Rod at 33.
Jeter at 21.6. ('09 numbers)

Contract for Mauer is a deal for a sure-fire HOFer.

Cards should be trying to get Pujols, who is *3 years* (wink, wink) older for around 25 per.

That's my point. Mauer's a helluva good young player, but sure fire HOFer?

Not seeing it, at least just yet.

DeezNutz
03-21-2010, 04:32 PM
That's my point. Mauer's a helluva good young player, but sure fire HOFer?

Not seeing it, at least just yet.

Slam dunk. Not close.

But look at it this way, then:

Would you rather have Matt Holliday at 17 per, or Mauer at 23 per?

These two players aren't on the same level.

sedated
03-21-2010, 04:33 PM
I was just about to post this.

$23M per. I like Mauer, but that's absurd.

Given the relative market, that sounds about right actually. I'm just surprised a team like the Twins were willing to shell it out. The yank-me's or red sox would have easily paid that if he was a free agent.

SNR
03-21-2010, 04:34 PM
I was at 6 or 7 Twins home games last year. They just built Target Field, which is such a nice ballpark. What the Twins now need is to fill the seats.

Mauer is a local Minneapolis product who worked his butt off to become the all-star he is today. He is the current biggest icon in Minnesota sports (yes, even more than Adrian Peterson) and is the biggest icon in Minnesota sports period since Chris Carter and before that Killebrew and Puckett.

Letting him go would've been instant death for that franchise. People would have been really pissed. Keeping him here and happy isn't just the best course of action for the team, it was the ONLY course of action for the team.

OnTheWarpath58
03-21-2010, 04:35 PM
Slam dunk. Not close.

But look at it this way, then:

Would you rather have Matt Holliday at 17 per, or Mauer at 23 per?

These two players aren't on the same level.

I'd rather have Matt Holliday at $17M and Yadier Molina at $3.3M than just Mauer at $23M

:D

DeezNutz
03-21-2010, 04:37 PM
6 years:

.327/.408/.483
OPS+ 136

As a fucking catcher. Franchise.

Consistent1
03-21-2010, 04:37 PM
A-Rod at 33.
Jeter at 21.6. ('09 numbers)

Contract for Mauer is a deal for a sure-fire HOFer.

Cards should be trying to get Pujols, who is *3 years* (wink, wink) older for around 25 per.

I have to admit being a sceptic about Pujols and the age/ longevity of continued dominance issue, but damn he is about three time the player this guy is. Mauer handles the pitching staff also....big whoop..... because if continues to do that, he won't be worth a shit well before 8 years. Put him at DH in the AL and he is an average guy with a better average and less power. The fans love him, he is a great "kid"...whatever. Too much.

OnTheWarpath58
03-21-2010, 04:37 PM
I was at 6 or 7 Twins home games last year. They just built Target Field, which is such a nice ballpark. What the Twins now need is to fill the seats.

Mauer is a local Minneapolis product who worked his butt off to become the all-star he is today. He is the current biggest icon in Minnesota sports (yes, even more than Adrian Peterson) and is the biggest icon in Minnesota sports period since Chris Carter and before that Killebrew and Puckett.

Letting him go would've been instant death for that franchise. People would have been really pissed. Keeping him here and happy isn't just the best course of action for the team, it was the ONLY course of action for the team.

I'm not at all debating that they should hang on to him, I just can't fathom that they couldn't have re-signed him for less than $23M

Seems like they were more than willing to overpay to keep him.

JMO.

DeezNutz
03-21-2010, 04:38 PM
I'd rather have Matt Holliday at $17M and Yadier Molina at $3.3M than just Mauer at $23M

:D

Fair enough, but I think you're seriously undervaluing the best young player in the game today.

If I'm starting a team tomorrow and can draft any player, there are only two worthy of discussion:

Mauer and Pujols.

tyton75
03-21-2010, 04:41 PM
I would like to think that the Royals would do the same if they were in the same position, but I have my doubts

OnTheWarpath58
03-21-2010, 04:41 PM
Fair enough, but I think you're seriously undervaluing the best young player in the game today.

If I'm starting a team tomorrow and can draft any player, there are only two worthy of discussion:

Mauer and Pujols.

I'm not purposely devaluing Mauer, I guess I'm just surprised that he got THAT much, especially from Minnesota.

tyton75
03-21-2010, 04:41 PM
btw... McCann doesn't suck as a catcher either..

OnTheWarpath58
03-21-2010, 04:42 PM
I would like to think that the Royals would do the same if they were in the same position, but I have my doubts

ROFL

Should we make a list? I'll start.

Carlos Beltran.
Johnny Damon.

I'll leave some for you guys. C'mon, this will be fun.

Consistent1
03-21-2010, 04:43 PM
To Mauer's credit, he most likely really did want to stay there over looking for a future better offer elsewhere. He is a lot of hype and is NOT the second best player in the league IMO.

DeezNutz
03-21-2010, 04:43 PM
I'm not purposely devaluing Mauer, I guess I'm just surprised that he got THAT much, especially from Minnesota.

Agreed about the MN part.

But it's fair market value. Insane would have been if NY or BOS had a shot. We'd be talking about ricockulous figures.

Consistent1
03-21-2010, 04:44 PM
That is not saying he isn't an awesome player either.

DeezNutz
03-21-2010, 04:45 PM
ROFL

Should we make a list? I'll start.

Carlos Beltran.
Johnny Damon.

I'll leave some for you guys. C'mon, this will be fun.

Stop, stop, stop.

We have no barometer before '06. We've re-signed Greinke and Soria.

The next step will be to see what the team does with Butler, if he continues to build upon his '09 season because he has the makings of being one of the game's bright young hitters.

OnTheWarpath58
03-21-2010, 04:45 PM
Agreed about the MN part.

But it's fair market value. Insane would have been if NY or BOS had a shot. We'd be talking about ricockulous figures.

If that's FMV, then Albert's getting $30M+ per, unless he opts for a hometown discount.

OnTheWarpath58
03-21-2010, 04:45 PM
Stop, stop, stop.

We have no barometer before '06. We've re-signed Greinke and Soria.

The next step will be to see what the team does with Butler, if he continues to build upon his '09 season because he has the makings of being one of the game's bright young hitters.

Buzzkill.

:cuss:

DeezNutz
03-21-2010, 04:47 PM
If that's FMV, then Albert's getting $30M+ per, unless he opts for a hometown discount.

It's probably going to be around that.

If I'm the Cards, I'm trying to get him at 25 per, but if we start going to around 30, I'm trying for 6 for $180M.

tk13
03-21-2010, 04:54 PM
Stop, stop, stop.

We have no barometer before '06. We've re-signed Greinke and Soria.

The next step will be to see what the team does with Butler, if he continues to build upon his '09 season because he has the makings of being one of the game's bright young hitters.

Honestly, if we'd signed Beltran to a contract like this, do you think it would've been worth it? I'm not so sure.

DeezNutz
03-21-2010, 04:59 PM
Honestly, if we'd signed Beltran to a contract like this, do you think it would've been worth it? I'm not so sure.

Like this? Probably not.

But I'd like to be early rather than late on things like this. For example, I'd already be trying to lock up Butler. Advocated the same approach with Greinke.

SnakeXJones
03-21-2010, 05:09 PM
I hope he stays healthy then that contract would be worth it but these baseball contracts are getting ridiculous since scott boras almost ruin baseball cause of A-Rod

duncan_idaho
03-21-2010, 05:48 PM
Awfully huge investment in a 6-5 catcher who already has had knee and back problems...

The Twins should have moved Mauer to 3B. Still a premium defensive position, one he would have played well, and you get an extra 20 games a year out of him while adding five years to his career...

tk13
03-21-2010, 05:55 PM
Like this? Probably not.

But I'd like to be early rather than late on things like this. For example, I'd already be trying to lock up Butler. Advocated the same approach with Greinke.

Yeah but they actually tried to do that with Beltran and Boras shot them down. I don't know what the numbers were but they wanted something astronomical to even entertain the Royals.

Brainiac
03-21-2010, 05:58 PM
ROFL

Should we make a list? I'll start.

Carlos Beltran.
Johnny Damon.

I'll leave some for you guys. C'mon, this will be fun.
Neither of those guys is worth anything near what Mauer is.

SNR
03-21-2010, 06:01 PM
I'm not at all debating that they should hang on to him, I just can't fathom that they couldn't have re-signed him for less than $23M

Seems like they were more than willing to overpay to keep him.

JMO.You're exactly right. It was a matter of "keep him at all costs." The Twins didn't have much leverage in driving down the price of a new contract. That's why it's so high.

Delano
03-21-2010, 06:09 PM
Awfully huge investment in a 6-5 catcher who already has had knee and back problems...

The Twins should have moved Mauer to 3B. Still a premium defensive position, one he would have played well, and you get an extra 20 games a year out of him while adding five years to his career...

Well, we both know the knee injury was a fluke Metrodome carpet injury. He doesn't have weak knees.

Mauer is an absolute stud. The guy could have gotten a full-ride in any sport he wanted. He can play 3rd and there is an opening there currently, and depending on Valencia, there could be an opening for a while.

Also, DeezNutz owned this thread.
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Al Bundy
03-21-2010, 06:14 PM
Pujols is gonna cost BIG money, but we already knew that. . I also wouldn't be putting him out there at catcher all the time. Too much for Mauer to me.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AiAxMA1_Zmlck2hDvuYRv6ARvLYF?slug=ap-twins-mauerextension

Pujols is going to want 30 plus.. Will he remain a Cardinal or will he be a Yankee/Red Sock/Angel?

DeezNutz
03-21-2010, 06:17 PM
Yeah but they actually tried to do that with Beltran and Boras shot them down. I don't know what the numbers were but they wanted something astronomical to even entertain the Royals.

Isn't the word on the street that it was a mere $1M that separated the two sides, and once this went south, there was never a chance to revitalize it?

If we gave Beltran the Longoria treatment, we would have been well served. Waiting was not the answer.

If, if, if...

SnakeXJones
03-21-2010, 06:22 PM
Isn't the word on the street that it was a mere $1M that separated the two sides, and once this went south, there was never a chance to revitalize it?

If we gave Beltran the Longoria treatment, we would have been well served. Waiting was not the answer.

If, if, if...

I was just about to post the samething and wasnt Dan Glass involved with the negotiations?

Brainiac
03-21-2010, 06:25 PM
Isn't the word on the street that it was a mere $1M that separated the two sides, and once this went south, there was never a chance to revitalize it?

If we gave Beltran the Longoria treatment, we would have been well served. Waiting was not the answer.

If, if, if...

I don't believe that because at the time, none of Scott Boras's clients had ever stayed with their original team. They ALWAYS became free agents and switched teams.

It would have been a pretty big upset if the Royals had been the first team to overcome that. Carlos Beltran always planned to test the free agent market.

DeezNutz
03-21-2010, 06:28 PM
I was just about to post the samething and wasnt Dan Glass involved with the negotiations?

I believe so...

But I admit that there's so much about the dog shit recent history of the Royals that I've tried my best to suppress.

I have intense disdain for almost all things Glass. Yeah, they're trying now, blah, blah, blah. I won't forgive them for ruining more than a decade for my franchise.

Fuck them.

Miles
03-21-2010, 06:29 PM
It does seem a bit high given the typical durability of his position but catchers like that do not come around often.

Morneau's 6 yrs at 80 mil that he signed back in 2008 is looking like a hell of a bargain in comparison.

Miles
03-21-2010, 06:32 PM
Pujols is gonna be scary in pinstripes.

The Yankees have Teixeira locked up for a while for huge money so they would have to so something about that first.

Marcellus
03-21-2010, 06:38 PM
Pujols isn't going anywhere. Anybody that thinks otherwise is nuts. I do think the market has just Beene set though.
AP isn't going to go for just $. He will get huge money in Stl. But a lot will be deffered. I just hope it doesn't hamstring the organization for years after.
You can't pay AP, Wainwright,Holliday, and Carpenter all premier money.
I wouldn't be suprised if they all sign below FMV though.
If anybody ends up a Yankee it will be Wainwright.

Consistent1
03-21-2010, 06:44 PM
It does seem a bit high given the typical durability of his position but catchers like that do not come around often.

Morneau's 6 yrs at 80 mil that he signed back in 2008 is looking like a hell of a bargain in comparison.

This is why I think that 5 years at the 23 mil would have been a ton more acceptable. Still high for a guy that is not good for 100 RBIs, is not a lock to hit many more than maybe 20 homers consistently, won't steal bases, etc. His big draw is that he COULD hit .350 over 140 games a year for 5 more years, then go down from that. The loyalty deal is great, but damn. 23 mil will be utility infielder pay by the end of the 8 years if this keeps up. My opinion is that Mauer is what many of these guys who bitch about steroids and the like look at as a throwback. Hell though, from what I see, he doesn't do a bunch of coke and drink all the time.

tk13
03-21-2010, 06:45 PM
Isn't the word on the street that it was a mere $1M that separated the two sides, and once this went south, there was never a chance to revitalize it?

If we gave Beltran the Longoria treatment, we would have been well served. Waiting was not the answer.

If, if, if...

I don't know. My impression on it was we offered him 9-10 million a year... Boras counter-offered... and Baird pretty much threw in the white towel because it was so high. I thought it was Dye and Damon we had a lot better chance at re-signing... I always thought Beltran was no chance.

But I don't know what those numbers were, but I could go back and find the article where Jayson Stark had sources saying that Boras was telling certain teams that they'd have to start at 10/$200 just to have a chance. That little tidbit got seriously overlooked over the years... and probably why he stiffed the Astros.

BWillie
03-21-2010, 06:45 PM
One of the reasons he got so much money is because he brings people to the stands. He's a native Minnesooootan, chicks think he's hot, and on top of that he's awesome. If he was a dbag from New York he wouldn't probably of been resigned.

tk13
03-21-2010, 06:49 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1945084

One team that inquired about Beltran reported it was told it wouldn't even be considered a "serious" bidder unless it was willing to begin the conversation with a 10-year, $200-million synonym for "hello."

Now... do you think he would've told the Royals something less than that? I highly doubt it. I really think we would've had to go between $200-250 million to keep him out of NY.

DeezNutz
03-21-2010, 06:54 PM
I agree here, but the date on the ESPN article is '04. I believe that KC was talking extension in '02 or '03.

The Royals had absolutely zero shot in '04.

KChiefs1
03-21-2010, 06:57 PM
Pujols is gonna cost BIG money, but we already knew that. . I also wouldn't be putting him out there at catcher all the time. Too much for Mauer to me.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AiAxMA1_Zmlck2hDvuYRv6ARvLYF?slug=ap-twins-mauerextension

On a side note: Joe Nathan is going to have Tommy John surgery & hopes to be back by spring training of 2011.

Consistent1
03-21-2010, 06:58 PM
They may have played around with the money in some ways too. If Pujols were to sign at 8 year deal right now, what do you think the total value would be $250?

tk13
03-21-2010, 07:02 PM
I agree here, but the date on the ESPN article is '04. I believe that KC was talking extension in '02 or '03.

The Royals had absolutely zero shot in '04.

It was '02. We would've traded him in '03 if the team hadn't done well.

DeezNutz
03-21-2010, 07:03 PM
Yep, that's right. Not sure why the "bright" spot of '03 was slipping my mind.

How that surprise year caused so many negative, unintended dominoes to fall...

SnakeXJones
03-21-2010, 07:22 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1945084



Now... do you think he would've told the Royals something less than that? I highly doubt it. I really think we would've had to go between $200-250 million to keep him out of NY.

200 Mill? I would personally show him and boras the door I would even help him pack

TinyEvel
03-21-2010, 07:23 PM
He must have had someone giving him good advice...

Ari Chi3fs
03-21-2010, 07:25 PM
I read this as Joe Mauer Dead. May he and John Goodman R.I.P.

tk13
03-21-2010, 08:07 PM
Either way, Pioli drops the ball again.

HighChief
03-21-2010, 08:35 PM
Come on guys. The money is fair. If he went to FA he would have been at 250+. He is what 26. 2009 AL MVP. 3 time AL batting champ. what like 4 time all star.

Ya he is getting paid like a hof er but in all reality thats what he is. By the time he is done he will have at least 2 MVP at least 6 batting titles. and a annual all star participant. BTW at least one ring too!

Tell me someone with those stats that is not in the hall.

You get what you pay for. just not like the twins to be paying ha ha

Mr. Laz
03-21-2010, 08:36 PM
stupid ... another example of baseball being fucked up and needing a real salary cap.

SNR
03-21-2010, 08:37 PM
Either way, Pioli drops the ball again.His C is a 37-year old who hasn't won a playoff game. This C is the AL MVP.

Basileus777
03-21-2010, 08:42 PM
A catcher with that kind of offensive impact is rare and worth 23 mil per year. The real problem is the length of the contract. Mauer plays a position known for breaking bodies down.

DeezNutz
03-21-2010, 08:44 PM
stupid ... another example of baseball being ****ed up and needing a real salary cap.

While I agree that a cap would be great, this contract is not evidence for it.

The Twins are getting over $100M in revenue sharing, and the financial state of the game has never been stronger.

Basileus777
03-21-2010, 08:46 PM
While I agree that a cap would be great, this contract is not evidence for it.

The Twins are getting over $100M in revenue sharing, and the financial state of the game has never been stronger.

The Twins can probably afford this because of the extra revenue their new stadium will bring in. I'd expect their payroll to go up over the next few years.

tk13
03-21-2010, 08:48 PM
Yeah, I can't wait to see playoff baseball outdoors in Minnesota.

DeezNutz
03-21-2010, 08:48 PM
The Twins can probably afford this because of the extra revenue their new stadium will bring in. I'd expect their payroll to go up over the next few years.

Every club can afford this contract.

I find it inexcusable that all clubs don't have payrolls that match the money they receive in revenue sharing.

Yes, there are sorts of other costs. But dems da breaks for owning a major league franchise. If the owner can't float it, get the fuck out.

No excuses.

DeezNutz
03-21-2010, 08:49 PM
Yeah, I can't wait to see playoff baseball outdoors in Minnesota.

No shit.

Why all new stadiums don't have retractable roofs is beyond me.

TinyEvel
03-21-2010, 09:29 PM
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Delano
03-21-2010, 09:59 PM
He must have had someone giving him good advice...

I was wondering if you got to meet Joe during that commercial.

Any cool stories? I'm a huge Twins fan.
Posted via Mobile Device

TinyEvel
03-22-2010, 12:26 AM
I was wondering if you got to meet Joe during that commercial.

Any cool stories? I'm a huge Twins fan.
Posted via Mobile Device

The guy is tall as heck and SUPER nice. Just a real gentleman. After the shoot his number one concern was finding an In-n-Out to get a hamburger before heading down to San Diego to do some mocap the next day. Athletes are not actors, but he did a great job, was a good sport with the fishing photo and all that. It was a pretty long day. I guess BB players are on the road a lot, he talked about that. We shot just before spring training started, so he was getting ready to go back. The fact the stayed in MN makes sense to me after meeting him. Seems a genuine guy.

One interesting thing was when we broke for lunch which was served across the street at catering. When we left the set building and stepped out onto the street he kind of gave a look around first, like he might be getting mobbed like I imagine he does in MN. But it was downtown L.A. and he was just another tall white guy. lol.

Ebolapox
03-22-2010, 01:18 AM
The guy is tall as heck and SUPER nice. Just a real gentleman. After the shoot his number one concern was finding an In-n-Out to get a hamburger before heading down to San Diego to do some mocap the next day. Athletes are not actors, but he did a great job, was a good sport with the fishing photo and all that. It was a pretty long day. I guess BB players are on the road a lot, he talked about that. We shot just before spring training started, so he was getting ready to go back. The fact the stayed in MN makes sense to me after meeting him. Seems a genuine guy.

One interesting thing was when we broke for lunch which was served across the street at catering. When we left the set building and stepped out onto the street he kind of gave a look around first, like he might be getting mobbed like I imagine he does in MN. But it was downtown L.A. and he was just another tall white guy. lol.

slightly different note, but related: espn the magazine did a story on which athletes were best at returning and answering fan mail, and he was by FAR the best--seems he legitimately cares about his fans. very cool, would've LOVED to have gotten him on the red sox.

Pioli Zombie
03-22-2010, 06:02 AM
I would like to think that the Royals would do the same if they were in the same position, but I have my doubts
They have Billy Butler. They don't need a guy like Mauer.
Posted via Mobile Device

Fritz88
03-22-2010, 06:09 AM
fuck

steve_minor
03-22-2010, 08:22 AM
I live in MN and everyone here is excited to hear this news ... I got tickets to 5 games already for this season ... I am pumped for outdoor baseball again.

Joe is a stud ... I doubt he finishes this contract as a catcher though.

PunkinDrublic
03-22-2010, 08:41 AM
Mauer is the exception to the rule. 9 out of 10 times in this situation a player leaves for even more pay in Boston or NY.
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sedated
03-22-2010, 09:54 AM
He must have had someone giving him good advice...

nice, always representing the Chiefs.

Consistent1
03-29-2010, 10:19 AM
What do you guys think about this article....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/sky_andrecheck/03/25/mauer.pujols/index.html

Demonpenz
03-29-2010, 10:35 AM
demonpenz:A tall catcher will spell his name with a D and an H soon

Frazod
03-29-2010, 10:47 AM
What do you guys think about this article....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/sky_andrecheck/03/25/mauer.pujols/index.html

I think every single one of these fucking sports media scumbags wants to see Pujols play for New York. I hope they all drink antifreeze and jump out of the top of the AIDS tree.

eazyb81
03-29-2010, 10:50 AM
Like this? Probably not.

But I'd like to be early rather than late on things like this. For example, I'd already be trying to lock up Butler. Advocated the same approach with Greinke.

Yeah, just like the Berroa contract. That worked out well. :thumb:

DeezNutz
03-29-2010, 10:53 AM
Naturally, there would be misses.

But the Damons, Beltrans, Greinkes, and Sorias would tend to make up for those.

Demonpenz
03-29-2010, 10:54 AM
Yeah, just like the Berroa contract. That worked out well. :thumb:

it's baseball, you fail 7 times out of 10 and you are a hall of famer, same things go for signing players.

eazyb81
03-29-2010, 11:14 AM
it's baseball, you fail 7 times out of 10 and you are a hall of famer, same things go for signing players.

Ha, not if you're small market. Hell there are still Royals fans that whine and moan about the Sweeney contract.

BigRedChief
03-29-2010, 11:27 AM
What do you guys think about this article....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/sky_andrecheck/03/25/mauer.pujols/index.html
He's some young writer trying to make a name for himeself. Pujols ain't worth Mauer money? ROFL

BigRedChief
03-29-2010, 11:28 AM
Naturally, there would be misses.

But the Damons, Beltrans, Greinkes, and Sorias would tend to make up for those.You fail 8 times out of 10 you don't even make it to the big show. Talk about a thin line.

DJ's left nut
03-29-2010, 11:42 AM
He's some young writer trying to make a name for himeself. Pujols ain't worth Mauer money? ROFL

Poll MLB GMs and I'd bet you get almost an even split as to who's the more valuable player going forward.

It comes down to what Joe Mauer really is. Is Joe Mauer the guy that hit .400 for a lot of the year and showed 35 HR pop while just edging into the prime of his career?

If you believe he is - then I would argue that he probably is more valuable than Pujols. He plays a premium position (from a scarcity perspective), he's younger and his body type is likely to age a little better.

Let's face it, the season Mauer put up last year isn't terribly dissimilar from what you expect out of Albert. More BBs than Ks, a ridiculous BA, strong power #s; in fact the 170 OPS+ Mauer put up is almost exactly Albert's career OPS+. He's also entering his age 27 season - the next 4 years of his career will be his 'prime' years; he may actually get better. If Mauer shows he is able to put those up consistently, why wouldn't the younger player that plays a more thin position be considered a better option?

Mauer has just been paid as though he will continue to put up those kinds of #s. It's a speculative gamble and the Twins better hope they're right. But that's also why many people think this contract is roughly on par with what Albert's should be. If Mauer's being paid as though he'll produce like 2009; then he's essentially being paid like the offensive equivalent of Albert. If he doesn't produce to that level and instead reverts to his 2008 levels, then the contract is a huge mistake by the Twins; not a 'baseline' for what a catcher that hit like Mauer in 2008 should make.

Much of Albert's value is in his consistency. You know exactly what you'll get from him. However, as a player ages, even that is less of a known quantity.

I appreciate Albert Pujols' greatness as much or more than anyone on this board, but you can't simply dismiss any comparisons to him. 8 years and $180 for a 30 year old player (that already has 2 seasons left on his deal at about 30 million total, so you're essentially giving him 6 and 150) is absolutely a fair extension for Albert and will likely end up being more than his raw production is worth over the length of the extension. Where it's made up is in goodwill with the fans and historic value. However, that's not really a consideration in the type of analysis this writer put forward.

It's a pretty evenhanded piece, IMO.

BigRedChief
03-29-2010, 11:52 AM
It's a pretty evenhanded piece, IMO.I wasn't dissing Mauer but dissing the idea that Pujols wasn't worth the same money.

DJ's left nut
03-29-2010, 11:56 AM
I wasn't dissing Mauer but dissing the idea that Pujols wasn't worth the same money.

I didn't think you were.

I'm saying only that I think the kid made a fair point - there are certainly schools that would suggest that he isn't worth Mauer money. If you believe steadfastly that Mauer will continue to progress as he did last season (and it's certainly not impossible) than it's a pretty makeable argument.

DeezNutz
03-29-2010, 01:48 PM
Ha, not if you're small market. Hell there are still Royals fans that whine and moan about the Sweeney contract.

We're not talking about huge contracts, necessarily. It's not like the Berroa **** up impeded the club's ability to find a SS.

And the "small market" thing, as it's being used here, is a farce because of revenue sharing. Payroll should match revenue sharing money. Period.

Consistent1
03-29-2010, 01:50 PM
Mauer gets a questionable IMO deal and somehow Pujols is worse? Ha. Mauer had a career power year and it is under what Albert will most likely EVER hit until he retires. Mauer never puts 100 guys across, and that is an an awful year when Albert does. Morneau makes Mauer look way better, while Pujols re-makes Holliday's career and checkbook? I do question Albert's age some, but in 5 years he will still be a way better run producer than Mauer ever has. I suppose this big contract is going to make Mauer get 35 HR's and 130 RBI this year. Catcher? Who cares, bring one up from AAA. Both are hometown values, but christ...even close. Not.

Delano
03-29-2010, 03:12 PM
Mauer gets a questionable IMO deal and somehow Pujols is worse? Ha. Mauer had a career power year and it is under what Albert will most likely EVER hit until he retires. Mauer never puts 100 guys across, and that is an an awful year when Albert does. Morneau makes Mauer look way better, while Pujols re-makes Holliday's career and checkbook? I do question Albert's age some, but in 5 years he will still be a way better run producer than Mauer ever has. I suppose this big contract is going to make Mauer get 35 HR's and 130 RBI this year. Catcher? Who cares, bring one up from AAA. Both are hometown values, but christ...even close. Not.

Morneau makes Mauer look good?

LMAO

Morneau is sandwiched between a batting champion and a guy who hit 32 homers and had 94 RBIs. Not to mention his struggles in clutch situations. All three of these guys and perhaps Jason Kubel if he repeats his 2009 numbers prevent pitchers from pitching around them.

Plug Mauer into the cleanup spot and he easily has 100 RBIs. The guy had Carlos Gomez, Jason Bartlett and the like hitting lead off and second for several years. Plug a lead off guy like Denard Span and O-Dogggggg, if he can put up decent numbers, in front of Mauer's 140 ABs and he'll have 110+ RBIs.